Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Opossum]

Personally I'm okay with Smash taking a long break. It's only been a couple of years since the last game stopped development. I'm amazed y'all want a new one so soon.

Fun fact. The time span between Bayonetta's release in Smash 4 and the first teaser for Smash Ultimate was 764 days.

Sora released 940 days ago.

 

[SharkLord]

Eeeeeh... The Switch 2 is on the horizon, most Smash games are dropped in the first couple years after a console's release, so logically any Smash budget would go towards Smash 6. The Fighter's Pass 3 Jumpscare scenario seems unlikely

also it wont let us have a stage reform so i dont want it

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

If we're going by merit, Steve absolutely slaughters Banjo & Kazooie. The latter is a very well liked character by smash fans, but the former is a cultural milestone. Both would be very well missed exclusions, but I don't imagine priorities will lie with Banjo & Kazooie more than it will with Steve.

Who knows though. We could get both.

On the other hand Banjo and Kazooie are easier to develop and probably also to re-license.
I don't know. I see them as a package deal of sorts, like Megaman and Ryu.

 

[Guynamednelson]

also it wont let us have a stage reform so i dont want it

The way I think Smash could have its own BCP would...not be good news for people who want new stages period.

 

[pitchfulprocessing]

I'm just glad I get to feel superior no matter what happens.

 

[Garteam]

Uhh, No?
Sakurai made that clear himself that Ultimate is finished, twice.
We aren’t getting more DLC for Smash Ultimate, and even if we did, it’d ruin the magical finality that is Sora.
If Sakurai is working on anything right now, it’d be his next project, not walking back on Smash Ultimate.

I agree with you that Ultimate is finished.

There was a brief opportunity of between FP11 in 2021 and the release of the final spirit events this year where Sakurai could have theoretically returned to Ultimate for more content if he and Nintendo felt that was best for the franchise. That window has conclusively closed with the release of the Sora amiibo and Sakurai's statement his work is complete.

That being said, making sure Sora stays the final fighter likely had little to no impact on that decision. By that logic, there will be no Smash content post-Sora period because that would "ruin the magical finality".

 

[Will]

Smash Ultimate was teased a year before the Switch’s release by Sakurai himself, but it technically also wasn’t announced because he only described it as transitioning to a new project. I was personally expecting KIU2 but Ultimate is a good game too.

I do wonder if Furukawa will continue the Iwata tradition of appearing in person and announcing “Oh yeah… erm… Smash otw”, which will single-handedly cause a full week of Crashboards without any footage or promotional material behind anything other than a sentence or a title in a list.

EDIT: To avoid confusion, I mean the release of the Switch console. He teased it in December 2015.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Why else does history repeat itself? There's a reason it's an old saying.

History shows again and again how nature points out the folly of men; Godzilla.

....wait that's not right.

 

[Gorgonzales]

The next time Banjo & Kazooie show up for Smash, they'd better bring Beak Bomb with em. Feels very weird that they're missing that move.

I'd settle for any move that resembles flight and keeps them in the air at this point, that isn't their third jump or burning a Wonderwing feather.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

History shows again and again how nature points out the folly of men; Godzilla.

....wait that's not right.

Your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should; Jurassic Park.

...Hold on. I don't think that's it either.

 

[Louie G.]

If we're going by merit, Steve absolutely slaughters Banjo & Kazooie. The latter is a very well liked character by smash fans, but the former is a cultural milestone. Both would be very well missed exclusions, but I don't imagine priorities will lie with Banjo & Kazooie more than it will with Steve.

Is it that simple? I think people understate Banjo & Kazooie a bit, in that they aren't just a "very well liked character" but had been one of the most deeply sought after pipe dream character requests for nearly 20 years strong. And to compliment that, they also have to be one of the easiest characters to license and are not an especially difficult one to program either. Microsoft has been throwing legacy Rare content at Nintendo via NSO. I see little reason for them not to return, outside of Microsoft not being feasible for base game at all.

Which is to say, I see very little reason for Steve not to return either. The main thing is that yes, he's absolutely more dev heavy and that amount of work may have only been feasible because he was allowed to be DLC. Although if they're able to carry over the assets and engine of the previous game like they did from the Smash 4 to Ultimate transition, which I'm sure will be the case, much of that dirty work is already done. I can see Steve getting pushed to DLC if any significant changes or development woes delay him past launch, but Minecraft is certainly a big enough deal to make the effort for.

My main point here is I think a lot of people are quick to look at this face value and simply deduct that Minecraft is more popular than Banjo-Kazooie so it will unabashedly get first dibs. And yet the truth is... Banjo came first. I think they'll both return, personally. But I don't think this dynamic is as one sided as it would appear on the surface, since it neglects just how relatively easy Banjo is to work out and just how long this was in the making.

I don't know. I see them as a package deal of sorts, like Megaman and Ryu.

This is generally how I process it too. Mega Man / Banjo are the explicit "Nintendo picks" and Steve / Ryu are the evergreen company mascots / cash cows. Both are extremely valuable for a game like Smash and it's hard to decipher which one is of higher priority, so I assume they're both just gonna be high up there.

 

[Garteam]

Smash is a lot closer than it is further at this point. We almost always get a new Smash within the first two years of a console's life (the exception was Smash for 3DS, which can be explained away by being a companion game to Smash for Wii U). That means the furthest Smash could theoretically be at this point is the end of 2027. I think we'll likely see it next year or early 2026.

The Switch could afford to put off Smash until 2018 because it had a new Zelda, new 3-D Mario, a new Splatoon, a new Xenoblade, and a Mario Kart port to go through in its first year. I could see Smash being bumped up to being a 2025 title if Nintendo doesn't have a comparable line-up for the Switch 2.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

The main thing is that yes, he's absolutely more dev heavy and that amount of work may have only been feasible because he was allowed to be DLC.

I honestly don't think Steve would be quite as much work as a base roster character since you would be able to make the stages with his mechanics in mind rather than adding them retroactively, and while I'm sure he'd still have his fair share of headaches due to the amount of unique interactions, they've already got a rough idea of how to implement them correctly, and assuming they were going from the ground up, they'd again be able to make sure everything that can interact with his kit would be coded in with that in mind.

 

[pitchfulprocessing]

For what it's worth if you go on the e-shop and sort by best selling for Smash DLC for each region, Steve is consistently the single best selling DLC pack in every region, while Banjo is bottom 3 in most regions. I feel like that should be obvious though, I could see both coming back just fine, Steve as a higher priority.

 

[Dinoman96]

I keep saying this but practically every character in Smash has a good reason to come back.

It's just all down to time and resources, and licensing costs in the case of the third parties.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

For what it's worth if you go on the e-shop and sort by best selling for Smash DLC for each region, Steve is consistently the single best selling DLC pack in every region, while Banjo is bottom 3 in most regions. I feel like that should be obvious though, I could see both coming back just fine, Steve as a higher priority.

Didn't people find that such data refers to more RECENT purchases rather than all-time?

 

[pitchfulprocessing]

Didn't people find that such data refers to more RECENT purchases rather than all-time?

Ofc, but this hasn't changed for the past couple of years or so. Generally, recent trends aren't gonna diverge too much from past trends. It basically just confirms what should be easily guessable.

 

[Louie G.]

I honestly don't think Steve would be quite as much work as a base roster character since you would be able to make the stages with his mechanics in mind rather than adding them retroactively, and while I'm sure he'd still have his fair share of headaches due to the amount of unique interactions, they've already got a rough idea of how to implement them correctly, and assuming they were going from the ground up, they'd again be able to make sure everything that can interact with his kit would be coded in with that in mind.

Honestly, if they needed to phase anything out I don't think we really need the stage biome stuff. It's a really cool quirk but if it's too demanding then I think he works fine without it. I guess it depends just how dedicated Sakurai is to that dizzying attention to detail but it doesn't strike me as a gameplay mechanic worth all the extra consideration when Steve can play virtually the same if it was removed.

Although programming stages would have to at least accommodate for placing blocks, which is the big thing, so I'm unsure which of the two is more time intensive anyway. I just do feel like Steve, and other DLC characters by proxy, got a lot of extra tools by virtue of being DLC and I'm curious which characters may end up neutered and brought to more of a base game level when they need to be made with the same amount of time and resources as the others.

 

[Noipoi]

For what it's worth if you go on the e-shop and sort by best selling for Smash DLC for each region, Steve is consistently the single best selling DLC pack in every region, while Banjo is bottom 3 in most regions. I feel like that should be obvious though, I could see both coming back just fine, Steve as a higher priority.

This list was very fascinating for a hot second until people started using it to **** on the characters they didn’t like.

Such things are an inevitability though, don’t know why I was surprised

 

[Guynamednelson]

Honestly, if they needed to phase anything out I don't think we really need the stage biome stuff. It's a really cool quirk but if it's too demanding then I think he works fine without it. I guess it depends just how dedicated Sakurai is to that dizzying attention to detail but it doesn't strike me as a gameplay mechanic worth all the extra consideration when Steve can play virtually the same if it was removed.

Although programming stages would have to at least accommodate for placing blocks, which is the big thing, so I'm unsure which of the two is more time intensive anyway. I just do feel like Steve, and other DLC characters by proxy, got a lot of extra tools by virtue of being DLC and I'm curious which characters may end up neutered and brought to more of a base game level when they need to be made with the same amount of time and resources as the others.

Pikmin Pluck no longer depends on what surface Olimar's standing on, just what type of Pikmin he pulled out last. Quote the SmashWiki:

Plucks a maximum of three Pikmin in this order: red, yellow, blue, white, purple.

 

[Will]

I don’t think Steve is leaving, given Minecraft’s worldwide acclaim and the hard part of programming him has already been conquered.

I also like him as a fighting game character and don’t really want him to leave. I just wish I could also play as Skeleton.

 

[Gengar84]

I think I’m in the extreme minority on this one but Banjo wouldn’t have been my first choice for a RARE character. I did really enjoy the first Banjo-Kazooie game but I’ve always been kind of indifferent to them as characters. My biased pick would have been the Battletoads but I’m not sure they ever quite reached the levels of popularity Banjo did at his height. My second choice is Fulgore (or another Killer Instinct character, they’re all cool). I believe KI actually did at least match Banjo-Kazooie’s popularity at their respective peaks too. I do think it’s cool that RARE got a character and I enjoyed their game but I just hope that’s not all we ever get.

 

[BuckleyTim]

on the topic of Steve, it's interesting to me that technically they bring more Plant-esque mob representation in Enderman and Zombie, though nobody ever really talks about them with discussing the character. Maybe Alex, but I don't think anyone's drawing the latter two in their "drawing everyone in smash" art pieces despite the announcer having voicelines for their names and everything.

 

[Guynamednelson]

All opinions on whether or not continuing to update Ultimate will cause cats and dogs to live together and mass hysteria aside, I wonder if they're afraid to nerf Steve because there's plenty of people who'd be playing him just because they love building brown bricks in Minecraft, not because he's SS-tier?

 

[pitchfulprocessing]

My biggest opinion on third-party cuts is that if Sephiroth gets cut as playable, he should totally be a secret boss.

 

[Noipoi]

My biggest opinion on third-party cuts is that if Sephiroth gets cut as playable, he should totally be a secret boss.

And then when they add him back as dlc he should still be a boss. So you can fight Sephiroth as Sephiroth.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Fun fact. The time span between Bayonetta's release in Smash 4 and the first teaser for Smash Ultimate was 764 days.

Sora released 940 days ago.

Huh, it really doesnt feel that long in comparison.

Speaking of figures, does anyone else here still collect them? I’ve been on a bit of a kick these last few years since I really started getting back into TMNT. I’ve actually mostly ran out of space to display them but I’ll figure something out.

Besides Amiibo, does anyone here have any figures of playable characters in Smash? I’ve got Yoshi, Pikachu, Jigglypuff, Mewtwo, Charizard, Ivysaur, Squirtle, Lucario, Ryu, Ken, Mega Man, Cloud, Sephiroth, and Hero (DQVIII).

I have a small collection of figurines, 5 of them. Though only one of them is from a playable character in smash, which is Joker.

There's 3 from One Piece, Luffy, Nami and Carrot. And a Street fighter one.

I keep saying this but practically every character in Smash has a good reason to come back.

It's just all down to time and resources, and licensing costs in the case of the third parties.

Like i specifically dont see Sora getting cut in the next game because they specifically said he was the most requested character in smash history, im sure they'll try to keep him around as long as possible because of that.

Plus the fact that Disney doesnt really care about videogames and just lets other people do that work for them probably makes him easier to get that most third partes in hindsight.

 

[fogbadge]

The next time Banjo & Kazooie show up for Smash, they'd better bring Beak Bomb with em. Feels very weird that they're missing that move.

why?

 

[Will]

My biggest opinion on third-party cuts is that if Sephiroth gets cut as playable, he should totally be a secret boss.

Why would you demote a character down to a boss?

 

[Among Waddle Dees]

Fun fact. The time span between Bayonetta's release in Smash 4 and the first teaser for Smash Ultimate was 764 days.

Sora released 940 days ago.

Oh no. I just noticed: are we actually 5 months away from the ending point of the Smash DLC being 3 years ago? But that means... we've gone without Smash inclusions for almost as long as we've been in that DLC cycle! That's HORRIFYING!

 

[HyperSomari64]

Why would you demote a character down to a boss?

At least is better than demoting a fighter to an Assist Trophy.

 

[Will]

At least is better than demoting a fighter to an Assist Trophy.

Sure, but again, why would they demote playable characters to non-playable roles to
begin with? Characters who also happen to be background characters or bosses are always characters first, and background characters have always been substituted in the right conditions i.e. Alfonso.

 

[pitchfulprocessing]

Why would you demote a character down to a boss?

Vergil tax.

 

[Louie G.]

I get the sentiment (it’s nice to at least keep him involved) but if they can work out enough FF7 content in base game to get a full fledged boss character, then you may as well just bring Sephiroth back from the jump. The only reason you’d cut him in the first place would come down to expenses and whatever Square’s own self interest aligns with.

All the SE related characters will probably come back eventually, DLC or otherwise. But yeah, if we can retain all the FF7 content from DLC AND see new content as early as base game then just make them both playable IMO. Sephiroth as a character and Sephiroth as a boss probably take about the same amount of paperwork.

 

[Gengar84]

As long as I get to keep Sephiroth and K. Rool and there’s at least an alternate costume option to keep Ganondorf’s current appearance from Ultimate, I’m okay with almost anything.

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

All opinions on whether or not continuing to update Ultimate will cause cats and dogs to live together and mass hysteria aside, I wonder if they're afraid to nerf Steve because there's plenty of people who'd be playing him just because they love building brown bricks in Minecraft, not because he's SS-tier?

Steve is S-tier because of his frame data and how stronk his weapons hit, no? I think you could nerf him significantly without touching the block play at all.
Casual players need that good frame data though, given how complex he is. Balancing Smash has to be a nightmare

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

I think that Banjo will be back, but Steve will be cut due to extensive development and possibly made DLC again.

I think if anything, Steve will definitely be base-game so they don't have to reprogram all the stages for the block thing like they did in this game. That way they can just program it that way from the start instead of basically rebuilding every stage from scratch (because having the block programming in the game but no Steve just screams to dataminers "hey we're adding Steve as DLC later" and gives away the game too easily lol).

And I'm of the opinion that if Steve comes back, Banjo might as well too since he doesn't have any meters or stage reprogramming to figure out, and it's not like Microsoft would decline more money from licenses.

 

[Will]

Best case scenario we get Banjo, Steve, and Master Chief/Doom Slayer/Dragonborn/Battletoads/[insert character from a studio Microsoft recently shut down] for a newcomer.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

I also kinda feel that way for most of the third parties involved, like for example Sonic isn't going anywhere, so since Bayonetta is also owned by SEGA and Joker is owned by Atlus who is owned by SEGA, Bayo and Joker are probably also coming back.

The only one I'm not 100% sure on this for is Konami because Snake was cut in 4, so I could genuinely see Konami cutting Snake again while keeping the Belmonts and possibly adding Bomberman.

May not be the smartest way to think about it, but outside of a select few characters, it's hard for me to pick out who's likely to get cut because it feels like pretty much every character has SOMETHING going for them.

 

[Will]

The only one I'm not 100% sure on this for is Konami because Snake was cut in 4, so I could genuinely see Konami cutting Snake again while keeping the Belmonts and possibly adding Bomberman.

How come Joker gets to come back because of Sonic but it doesn’t work the other way around when the Belmonts get in despite Snake getting in first?

Also, Snake Eater remake keeps him relavent, imo, even if it is on other console. Hell, throw in a Naked Snake alt costume. An Echo would also be cool but I can already hear the “erm but he looks too similar” comment coming