Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

Banjo and Kazooie were the second best polling character(s) in the Ballot, that has to count for something.
At least I hope

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

How come Joker gets to come back because of Sonic but it doesn’t work the other way around when the Belmonts get in despite Snake getting in first?

Also, Snake Eater remake keeps him relavent, imo, even if it is on other console. Hell, throw in a Naked Snake alt costume. An Echo would also be cool but I can already hear the “erm but he looks too similar” comment coming

Well, I do think Snake has a good shot at coming back! The problem is Konami may not be in the same mindset since they've cut him before despite the fact that they get paid for it, lol.

Really it's just down to there being precedent for Snake is all.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Well, I do think Snake has a good shot at coming back! The problem is Konami may not be in the same mindset since they've cut him before despite the fact that they get paid for it, lol.

Really it's just down to there being precedent for Snake is all.

Implying Snake being cut was Konami not allowing it and not simply Sakurai/Nintendo just not putting the effort in re-obtaining the license.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Implying Snake being cut was Konami not allowing it and not simply Sakurai/Nintendo just not putting the effort in re-obtaining the license.

That's also true! Lots of things we're not certain of with Snake.

Like I said, I do think he has a good shot, but precedent means I wouldn't be TOO surprised if he was, basically.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

That's also true! Lots of things we're not certain of with Snake.

Like I said, I do think he has a good shot, but precedent means I wouldn't be TOO surprised if he was, basically.

This much is true, though it extends to most third parties. At any given point, the planning stages could simply not include certain guests for whatever reason.

 

[smashkirby]

Let's say your favorite series already reppy in smash got ALL the characters you'd want in as playable fighters, what would it look like?
Me;.
Xenoblade:
Shulk
Fiora
Melia
Elma
Rex with Pyra and Mythra
Pyra/Mythra solo
Malos
Nia stance change between driver and blade.
Tora and Poppi
Lora and Jin
Noah
Mio
Ethel
Matthew

Kirby
King Dedede
Meta Knight
Bandana Waddle Dee
Gooey
Ribbon and Adeleine
Magolor
Animal Friends (all 6-in-1-character)
Chef Kawasaki
---

Number one reason Zagreus should be a base game character lol. Though at the very least his trailer would definitely feature the Kid Icarus cast either way, Hades definitely really fits perfectly into Smash.

I'm still surprised Zagreus' Spirit Battle didn't involve his soul possessing that of a tan-skinned Dark Pit puppet clone. Like, D.P. was RIGHT there, and honestly? Whenever I see Zag, I can't help but think of that alt. in particular.

 

[Will]

Unrelated opinion regarding Steve— if the crafting is standardized similar to how the Pikmin changed, a resource-gathering mechanic could apply to other characters.

Spoiler

 

[Perkilator]

I unironically think that Smash is so obsessed with moveset retention, it’s brought speculation to the point of debates over whether or not veterans should be overhauled.

 

[Gorgonzales]

why?

I always found it kinda weird that they don't really do any flying in Smash. It feels like a big enough part of their home game that its absence is notable, to me at least.

Also it would make them more fun to play.

 

[pitchfulprocessing]

Reminds me

This is correct information.

Like a Dragon, Persona and Sonic are called the Main Pillar Brands at Sega.

— みどり (@MbKKssTBhz5) May 10, 2024

【Sega Sammy FY2024 Results】

During the previous three fiscal years, the main pillars of the Sega Group established a substantial revenue base that has supported the Sega brand.

Sonic, Like a Dragon and Persona are considered the three main pillar IPs for the Sega Group. pic.twitter.com/vxhFVeOkCI

— みどり (@MbKKssTBhz5) May 10, 2024

I feel like this was kind of self-evident, much as I love Puyo Puyo and Virtua Fighter, but interesting to know for sure. Smash has 2/3, so maybe they'll try going for some kind of Yakuza/Like A Dragon representation next, it would make plenty of sense. Ichiban needs a trailer featuring Hero.

Unrelated opinion regarding Steve— if the crafting is standardized similar to how the Pikmin changed, a resource-gathering mechanic could apply to other characters.

Spoiler

View attachment 389406

Terrarian-stocks will rise. Might as well make the most out of all that Steve code.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Reminds me

This is correct information.

Like a Dragon, Persona and Sonic are called the Main Pillar Brands at Sega.

— みどり (@MbKKssTBhz5) May 10, 2024

【Sega Sammy FY2024 Results】

During the previous three fiscal years, the main pillars of the Sega Group established a substantial revenue base that has supported the Sega brand.

Sonic, Like a Dragon and Persona are considered the three main pillar IPs for the Sega Group. pic.twitter.com/vxhFVeOkCI

— みどり (@MbKKssTBhz5) May 10, 2024

I feel like this was kind of self-evident, much as I love Puyo Puyo and Virtua Fighter, but interesting to know for sure. Smash has 2/3, so maybe they'll try going for some kind of Yakuza/Like A Dragon representation next, it would make plenty of sense. Ichiban needs a trailer featuring Hero.

It's his time.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

As far as Konami, the particularly nasty context of their relationship breakdown with Kojima likely played a factor in the lack of Snake in 4. Whether they simply were uncomfortable with spotlighting him in Smash or Nintendo simply didn't want to get in the middle an increasingly ugly PR situation with Metal Gear is unknown, but both reasons (or even a combination of the two) would entirely make sense.

In the current market, I'd say Konami would be completely open to which ever fighter Nintendo and/or Sakurai wanted. They've gotten really big on crossovers (heck a Castlevania Death by Daylight chapter was announced this week) and have all the more reason to keep their IP's highlighted in Smash. I'm actually thinking their representation could increase; even a loss of a Belmont could easily be compensated by the inclusion of Alucard, and Bomberman is the most consistent active franchise they have in the West that he honestly feels like a wholly logical selection for the next game.

 

[fogbadge]

I always found it kinda weird that they don't really do any flying in Smash. It feels like a big enough part of their home game that its absence is notable, to me at least.

Also it would make them more fun to play.

could you not argue the same for kirby?

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

In the current market, I'd say Konami would be completely open to which ever fighter Nintendo and/or Sakurai wanted. They've gotten really big on crossovers (heck a Castlevania Death by Daylight chapter was announced this week) and have all the more reason to keep their IP's highlighted in Smash. I'm actually thinking their representation could increase; even a loss of a Belmont could easily be compensated by the inclusion of Alucard, and Bomberman is the most consistent active franchise they have in the West that he honestly feels like a wholly logical selection for the next game.

I would honestly love if we got Bomberman, especially if his alt colors are the others from like Bomberman R, like each has a different face (Blue Bomber is tired-looking, Yellow Bomber has an excited look on his face) and they have slight aesthetic differences like Aqua Bomber's ribbons and Pink Bomber's heart shapes, kinda like an easier to manage Bowser Jr. and Koopalings, since there's exactly 8 of them. Could maybe even give them different idles if they really wanted to, I think.

 

[Garteam]

I'm still in the "Nintendo will try to bring back every third-party in Ultimate and only scrap them if they can't reach a deal with the licensor and/or devs" camp.

Will it be expensive? Yup, but this is also the series that went out of its way to license additional .pngs spirits from third parties three years after the game stopped receiving substantial support. They're clearly not afraid to bust out the champagne, especially with Ultimate being the third best-selling Switch game of all time.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I feel like this was kind of self-evident, much as I love Puyo Puyo and Virtua Fighter, but interesting to know for sure. Smash has 2/3, so maybe they'll try going for some kind of Yakuza/Like A Dragon representation next, it would make plenty of sense. Ichiban needs a trailer featuring Hero.

I always felt the obvious course of action is to make an Ichiban spirit battle where you fight Hero.

That is of course if stuff like spirit battles and Dragon quest come back to smash bros.

 

[Gorgonzales]

could you not argue the same for kirby?

Kirby has 6 jumps.

For Banjo-Kazooie, basically I'm saying I wish their Up B shot them upward and put them into a pseudo-glide immediately after, kind of like Steve. And pressing the special button again during flight makes them divebomb at whatever angle they're currently facing. That would satisfy me.

 

[Perkilator]

My idea for implementing the Beak Bomb was to have the Flight Pad work kinda like the Shock Spring Jump, but then pressing B again has the duo do a Beak Bomb / Bill Drill hybrid where they fly in a corkscrew in the direction tilted on the control stick.

 

[Will]

Kirby has 6 jumps.

For Banjo-Kazooie, basically I'm saying I wish their Up B shot them upward and put them into a pseudo-glide immediately after, kind of like Steve. And pressing the special button again during flight makes them divebomb at whatever angle they're currently facing. That would satisfy me.

Banjocide 2: Electric Boogalo

Banjo could use some form of lateral movement, I find him very linear.

 

[dream1ng]

I'm still in the "Nintendo will try to bring back every third-party in Ultimate and only scrap them if they can't reach a deal with the licensor and/or devs" camp.

Will it be expensive? Yup, but this is also the series that went out of its way to license additional .pngs spirits from third parties three years after the game stopped receiving substantial support. They're clearly not afraid to bust out the champagne, especially with Ultimate being the third best-selling Switch game of all time.

So do you imagine they're just going to push on with their two generation old framework and the increasingly inefficient development costs that come with using such old data, or do you anticipate a huge number of first-party cuts to offset zero third-parties being axed?

Also the reason Ultimate sold so well was because it was on Switch. 4 had more characters than Brawl, but on a per system basis Brawl sold better because it was on the Wii. The main thing that will dictate sales is not whether all the third-parties return, or two-thirds, or one half, it's the system it's going to be on.

 

[fogbadge]

Kirby has 6 jumps.

For Banjo-Kazooie, basically I'm saying I wish their Up B shot them upward and put them into a pseudo-glide immediately after, kind of like Steve. And pressing the special button again during flight makes them divebomb at whatever angle they're currently facing. That would satisfy me.

i hope it'd be easier to aim that in BK and BT

 

[Speed Weed]

Reminds me

This is correct information.

Like a Dragon, Persona and Sonic are called the Main Pillar Brands at Sega.

— みどり (@MbKKssTBhz5) May 10, 2024

【Sega Sammy FY2024 Results】

During the previous three fiscal years, the main pillars of the Sega Group established a substantial revenue base that has supported the Sega brand.

Sonic, Like a Dragon and Persona are considered the three main pillar IPs for the Sega Group. pic.twitter.com/vxhFVeOkCI

— みどり (@MbKKssTBhz5) May 10, 2024

I feel like this was kind of self-evident, much as I love Puyo Puyo and Virtua Fighter, but interesting to know for sure. Smash has 2/3, so maybe they'll try going for some kind of Yakuza/Like A Dragon representation next, it would make plenty of sense. Ichiban needs a trailer featuring Hero.


Terrarian-stocks will rise. Might as well make the most out of all that Steve code.

This is erasure of the true most important SEGA property, Illbleed

 

[pitchfulprocessing]

This is erasure of the true most important SEGA property, Illbleed

Personally I'm waiting for the Quintet character. Solo Crisis or Planet Laika when?

 

[Garteam]

So do you imagine they're just going to push on with their two generation old framework and the increasingly inefficient development costs that come with using such old data, or do you anticipate a huge number of first-party cuts to offset zero third-parties being axed?

Also the reason Ultimate sold so well was because it was on Switch. 4 had more characters than Brawl, but on a per system basis Brawl sold better because it was on the Wii. The main thing that will dictate sales is not whether all the third-parties return, or two-thirds, or one half, it's the system it's going to be on.

I don't really see why they wouldn't continue using the Brawl code and engine if it is functional and saves development time. Reusing established assets isn't inefficient, it's the opposite. Using a new engine and having to remake old characters just to say you're using a new engine is inefficient as you're spending a lot of development time on something that does very little on the player's end.

In terms of an excessive number of first parties being cut to account for bringing all of the third parties back, I don't really think it's that major of a trade-off. There are 16 third parties (not counting Richter and Ken). Sonic, Mega Man, Pac-Man, Ryu, and Bayonetta are virtually guaranteed to come back no matter what, so you'd save 11 first parties at most. The alternative of losing those 11 does suck, but if we have 55 to 60 non-echo veterans in the base game and (X-16) of them are first parties, you can still get the core Nintendo All-Stars and Smash Bros. mainstays in relatively comfortably. A lot of the most glaring omissions would likely be brought back as DLC, similar to Smash for Wii U/3DS.

I also don't think you can write off Ultimate's success as just being tied to the Switch. For the first time ever, Smash Bros. was able to outsell Pokemon. A lot of that can be attributed to a lot of passion for Ultimate's creative decisions and the divisive reception that Switch-era Pokemon has received. I think there's also a chicken-and-egg problem with saying people just bought Ultimate because it was the Smash Bros. on Switch. How many people bought a Switch specifically because it could play Smash? How many people bought a Switch specifically because it could play Ultimate? I think taking Ultimate's success for granted and not looking at what it substantively did well is a bad idea, especially when the market is currently defined by major releases that underperform.

 

[chocolatejr9]

This is erasure of the true most important SEGA property, Illbleed

You joke, but a Zodick Spirit Battle would be based.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Since Famicom Detective Club has had some remakes, do you think any content will be included in Smash?

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Since Famicom Detective Club has had some remakes, do you think any content will be included in Smash?

I could see them getting something like an Assist Trophy or something like Trophies or Spirits.

The latter also depends on whether the next game brings back Trophies, Spirits, both, or does something else entirely.

 

[fogbadge]

Since Famicom Detective Club has had some remakes, do you think any content will be included in Smash?

could be the next “surprise” character

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Since Famicom Detective Club has had some remakes, do you think any content will be included in Smash?

I think there's a distinct possibility we're straight up getting Ayumi since the only reason we didn't get her in Melee was a "lack of familiarity abroad".

Now her games have been remade and released globally in a post-Ultimate setting. Sakurai is likely to revisit the idea.

 

[Ivander]

Since Famicom Detective Club has had some remakes, do you think any content will be included in Smash?

Can't go wrong with a stage.

That said, Spirits are a guarantee if they return. As for a character or Assist Trophy, I'll see what happens next game.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

I've thought about it before, but it's kinda crazy to me how much of a Wild West we're really facing here for next Smash, to the point that we don't even know what our main collectible will be between Trophies and Spirits.

And unless Everyone is Here was such a success internally that they decide to just reveal all of the veterans off the bat for every game going forward, we're probably going back to the gradual Dojo dripfeed, and that's probably gonna feel agonizing (though slightly nostalgic for someone like me who joined after Smash 4 was teased all those years ago) since I'm remembering when Smash 4 got revealed and then we got nothing for like a month after E3 only to get Olimar dropped on us in a Pic of the Day lol

 

[fogbadge]

I think there's a distinct possibility we're straight up getting Ayumi since the only reason we didn't get her in Melee was a "lack of familiarity abroad".

Now her games have been remade and released globally in a post-Ultimate setting. Sakurai is likely to revisit the idea.

lets hope he’s still keen on the idea

 

[KingofPhantoms]

I've thought about it before, but it's kinda crazy to me how much of a Wild West we're really facing here for next Smash, to the point that we don't even know what our main collectible will be between Trophies and Spirits.

And unless Everyone is Here was such a success internally that they decide to just reveal all of the veterans off the bat for every game going forward, we're probably going back to the gradual Dojo dripfeed, and that's probably gonna feel agonizing (though slightly nostalgic for someone like me who joined after Smash 4 was teased all those years ago) since I'm remembering when Smash 4 got revealed and then we got nothing for like a month after E3 only to get Olimar dropped on us in a Pic of the Day lol

I'll never forget the days of waiting for new stages or veteran reveals only to get a close-up of Luigi's nose instead.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I'll never forget the days of waiting for new stages or veteran reveals only to get a close-up Luigi's nose instead.

What are you talking about? Luigi's nose was peak content that we could not have lived without.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

I'll never forget the days of waiting for new stages or veteran reveals only to get a close-up Luigi's nose instead.

Me personally, I'll never forget hoping that Starfy was playable only for him to get revealed as an Assist Trophy again on Christmas morning.

Hilarious now, but MAN, it stung at the time lol

 

[Noipoi]

I've thought about it before, but it's kinda crazy to me how much of a Wild West we're really facing here for next Smash, to the point that we don't even know what our main collectible will be between Trophies and Spirits.

And unless Everyone is Here was such a success internally that they decide to just reveal all of the veterans off the bat for every game going forward, we're probably going back to the gradual Dojo dripfeed, and that's probably gonna feel agonizing (though slightly nostalgic for someone like me who joined after Smash 4 was teased all those years ago) since I'm remembering when Smash 4 got revealed and then we got nothing for like a month after E3 only to get Olimar dropped on us in a Pic of the Day lol

It’ll make the Pic of the Days a smidgen more interesting, though. I remember during Ultimate’s build up a lot of them were just stuff we already knew.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

What are you talking about? Luigi's nose was peak content that we could not have lived without.

I gotta admit, even the "disappointing" pics ended up giving me laughs in the latter half of the speculation period.

Either because of the memes they led to, and/or because I was just expecting stuff like Luigi's nose more than new info after a while.

Me personally, I'll never forget hoping that Starfy was playable only for him to get revealed as an Assist Trophy again on Christmas morning.

Hilarious now, but MAN, it stung at the time lol

I actually forgot that one. Yeah, I don't blame you for being upset back then lmao. For me, that'd have been like if Toon Link got confirmed to only show up on the Spirit Train on the same day (though IIRC Starfy's Assist Trophy image got revealed specifically on Christmas due to him being, well, a star).

Also, long time no see, Poppy.

 

[superprincess]

It’ll make the Pic of the Days a smidgen more interesting, though. I remember during Ultimate’s build up a lot of them were just stuff we already knew.

To this day I still don't understand why they didn't hold off the little characters videos until they covered said characters on the blog. Instead they just dropped them all on E3.

It'd be infinitely more engaging if instead of just the short blurts we got as a description for each character, we also got the video showcasing their moveset.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

To this day I still don't understand why they didn't hold off the little characters videos until they covered said characters on the blog. Instead they just dropped them all on E3.

Because going from not knowing who's in the game to "EVERYONE IS HERE!" is one hell of a marketing strategy. One that worked really well considering Ultimate is the best-selling fighting game of all time, dethroning the super old game known as Street Fighter II.

With that said...

It'd be infinitely more engaging if instead of just the short blurts we got as a description for each character, we also got the video showcasing their moveset.

This would have been fun.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Also, long time no see, Poppy.

Right back at ya! Haven't been on in a bit, but seeing them announce the Switch 2 got me inevitably thinking about the Smash Bros. eventually coming to it, so I logged back in to talk about it lol

Speculah has become both a blessing and a curse lol

EDIT: Speaking of the little videos, I hope they keep doing those next game. It was nice getting little tidbits and seeing who changed in small ways here and there, since they also included Final Smashes usually.