Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Perkilator]

It'd be infinitely more engaging if instead of just the short blurts we got as a description for each character, we also got the video showcasing their moveset.

Akuma guide, my beloved...

Seriously, this is how the next Smash game should do character guides: an in-depth showcase of their moves with video examples accompanied by text.

 

[Noipoi]

I can't wait for the existential agony I'll feel as I wait day after day to see if my mains are back in the game while the daily blog just posts about the Banana Gun or something

 

[Deleted member]

I'm not really sure you can gauge too much on DLC vs base game newcomers other than DLC having to sell and it probably being easier to negotiate out there third parties for individual character packs. I would say that in general I think a Genshin Impact character will probably happen and I don't see that discussed too much.


Sakuna will also bring the Rice-And-RuinSweep unfortunately.

I'm a bit late to this but i agree that a Genshin rep is likely, the game is extremely popular.
I think it's biggest roadblock it's the lack of Nintendo apareances.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I'm a bit late to this but i agree that a Genshin rep is likely, the game is extremely popular.
I think it's biggest roadblock it's the lack of Nintendo apareances.

Gotta love how Nintendo appearances is still an argument to gatekeep characters after all the crazy reveals we've had in the past couple of years.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

I can't wait for the existential agony I'll feel as I wait day after day to see if my mains are back in the game while the daily blog just posts about the Banana Gun or something

If there's any consolation about having Bowser and Wario in my lineup since Brawl, it's that I don't have to worry about them in the slightest.

....everyone else on the other hand.....

 

[Perkilator]

I just prepared a potentially spicy thread.

 

[pitchfulprocessing]

I'm a bit late to this but i agree that a Genshin rep is likely, the game is extremely popular.
I think it's biggest roadblock it's the lack of Nintendo apareances.

For what it's worth Genshin has been confirmed to be coming to a Nintendo console for years. Probably will just happen when the Switch 2 comes out because that console will actually be powerful enough to run it without significant downsizing. Given mihoyo has had it planned for so long I wouldn't be surprised if it was one of the earlier titles for the Switch 2.

I feel like the biggest issue would probably just be the standard thing of mihoyo being a foreign company, so as always the process would be more complicated than with a Japanese company. Definitely not insurmountable though.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I just prepared a potentially spicy thread.

I replied to it but....

why not say it here?

 

[ScrubReborn]

I'll never forget the days of waiting for new stages or veteran reveals only to get a close-up of Luigi's nose instead.

Lmao I checked that thing like a religion every day in 2014. I remember I and the other 10 year olds I knew were worried about so many characters for a long time before they all got revealed/leaked. Falcon, Ness, Ike, even Ganondorf and Wario. I was convinced Wario was outta here for so long lol. Those were good times.

 

[Perkilator]

I replied to it but....

why not say it here?

Because I figured it would get buried by other discussion topics.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Because I figured it would get buried by other discussion topics.

And you announcing a thread wouldn't?

 

[Perkilator]

And you announcing a thread wouldn't?

…Y’know what, fair enough.

 

[Kirbeh]

…Y’know what, fair enough.

That and a topic about speculation should probably be in the actual speculation thread, no?

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

My idea for implementing the Beak Bomb was to have the Flight Pad work kinda like the Shock Spring Jump, but then pressing B again has the duo do a Beak Bomb / Bill Drill hybrid where they fly in a corkscrew in the direction tilted on the control stick.

I'd skip the jumping in the air part and just have them charge up for a bit and then do the Beak Bomb, which you could angle in the meantime. I'd make it pretty fast and something you can combo into. Doesn't go into helpless if you hit someone, just like in Banjo-Kazooie. Not nearly as strong as Wonderwing of course.
Shock Spring Jump is a good recovery, and I like having a super 4th jump that covers all that distance and still lets you do anything afterwards, but having a diagonal movement tool that also attacks would probably benefit them in the long run.
Regular jumps would have to become slightly higher though, as they are now they're designed to "keep you afloat" once you've already gained height with your up B. Recovery in general would probably get nerfed overall anyways though, which worries me as it's the one thing that's obviously very good in Banjo's kit, but it might be worth it? Probably? I don't know.

All that, OR:
Just give the poor ******* some more air speed lol

 

[Deleted member]

I feel like this was kind of self-evident, much as I love Puyo Puyo and Virtua Fighter, but interesting to know for sure. Smash has 2/3, so maybe they'll try going for some kind of Yakuza/Like A Dragon representation next, it would make plenty of sense. Ichiban needs a trailer featuring Hero.

Hot take, but i think Ichiban would be better suited than Kiryu in Smash Bros.
Most people will probably disagree because he's not the OG protagonist and Yakuza 7 is still relatively recent, but i wouldn't mind him begin the rep, specially if Hero returns, the trailer would be glorious.

 

[SharkLord]

Gotta love how Nintendo appearances is still an argument to gatekeep characters after all the crazy reveals we've had in the past couple of years.

I think the big bottom line nowadays is less about Nintendo appearances and more about the company having negotiations with Nintendo. So for instance, Joker had a single spinoff on the 3DS that I don't think was even out when he was selected for Smash. However, he's owned by Sega, and Sega's on pretty good terms with Nintendo, so negotiations weren't too big an issue.

With Genshin, it's kinda mixed because I don't know if MiHoYo has even released a game on Nintendo yet. Still, they said they were working on a Switch port, so they've surely had some negotiations behind the scenes. Going off of that, I'd say Genshin isn't a complete no-go.

 

[Deleted member]

Gotta love how Nintendo appearances is still an argument to gatekeep characters after all the crazy reveals we've had in the past couple of years.

It's not gatekeeping, though, never said it was impossible, just that it it's biggest roadblock.
Mostly because we have no idea if characters need to have apareared in a Nintendo console to be elegible, but it could be the case because all the characters so far have been in a Nintendo console, this might be disaproven in the future, but for now it's pausible to see it as a potential roadblock.

 

[Louie G.]

I feel like this was kind of self-evident, much as I love Puyo Puyo and Virtua Fighter, but interesting to know for sure. Smash has 2/3, so maybe they'll try going for some kind of Yakuza/Like A Dragon representation next, it would make plenty of sense. Ichiban needs a trailer featuring Hero.

I feel obligated to defend Puyo a bit here - I'll level with this and say the gap has significantly closed over the last few years, and Sega tends to treat Yakuza with a bit more esteem, but I feel like that has to do with Yakuza projects generally being higher budget AAA level affairs. That's how I'm reading this report, where Sonic / Yakuza / Persona are Sega's big three AAA franchises while Puyo Puyo - despite reportedly having their strongest brand recognition in Japan and last I checked still being Sega's second best selling IP - is just not an eyecatching blockbuster game as much as it is a reliable, consistent cornerstone of the company.

I think if you went for Puyo, it'd be more under the guise of a significant legacy series and playing hard into its arcade roots. Less to keep things contemporary, moreso to respect the history. Smash is no stranger to taking this angle instead and frankly, it would be welcome among Sega's current lineup.

I'm unsure what would take precedent though, I think there are strong cases from either side. In a perfect scenario I'd like both Arle and Kiryu / Ichiban in the game. Would be inclined to say Puyo may be more likely for a base roster pick, and Yakuza would be a killer DLC pick akin to Joker... which, suffice to say, the confidence in Persona to the extent of promising yearly content does bode well for Joker's return or some new Persona representation in the future.

 

[SharkLord]

I feel obligated to defend Puyo a bit here - I'll level with this and say the gap has significantly closed over the last few years, and Sega tends to treat Yakuza with a bit more esteem, but I feel like that has to do with Yakuza projects generally being higher budget, AAA level affairs. That's how I'm reading this report, where Sonic / Yakuza / Persona are Sega's big three AAA franchises while Puyo Puyo - despite reportedly being their strongest brand in Japan and last I checked still being Sega's second best selling IP - are just not eyecatching blockbuster games as much as it is a reliable, consistent cornerstone of the company.

I think if you went for Puyo, it'd be more under the guise of a significant legacy series and playing hard into its arcade roots. Less to keep things contemporary, moreso to respect the history. Smash is no stranger to taking this angle instead and frankly, it would be welcome among Sega's current lineup.

I'm unsure what would take precedent though, I think there are strong cases from either side. In a perfect scenario I'd like both Arle and Kiryu / Ichiban in the game. Would be inclined to say Puyo may be more likely for a base roster pick, and Yakuza would be a killer DLC pick akin to Joker... which, suffice to say, the confidence in Persona to the extent of promising yearly content does bode well for Joker's return or some new Persona representation in the future.

On the note of Puyo Puyo, how'd you expect the puzzle elements to translate into gameplay? I've only played a bit of Puyo Puyo and I'm familiar with the combo-building aspect, but I dunno how to make that go from falling blocks to platform fighting

 

[Deleted member]

does bode well for Joker's return or some new Persona representation in the future

Tbh, i would be surprised if Joker is cut, he feels like it would be easy to bring back and P5 is still popular, could be wrong, but this is how i see it.

On the note of Puyo Puyo, how'd you expect the puzzle elements to translate into gameplay? I've only played a bit of Puyo Puyo and I'm familiar with the combo-building aspect, but I dunno how to make that go from falling blocks to platform fighting

If there's something that's nearly limiteless it's creativity and oh boy, Sakurai has lots of it, there's definitely a way to adapt Puyo Puyo into a Smash Bros moveset, whatever it'll be like any of the moveset artists portrait its or entirely diferent remains to be seen.

and Yakuza would be a killer DLC pick akin to Joker

Tbh, i am kind of expecting either Sans or Zagreus to be the "for real!?" (no pun intended lol) picks of next game DLC, but Ichiban or Kiryu would definitely fit the bill.


And about PuyoPuyo, i could see it happening and i would be like "well, that makes sense", but i could not be surprised if it ends up not having a character, i also think it's one of those series that could fit well as both base game and DLC picks as well.
So i see it as a 50/50, with a possibility of an assist trophy or/and stage if it doesn't get a fighter.

 

[Louie G.]

On the note of Puyo Puyo, how'd you expect the puzzle elements to translate into gameplay? I've only played a bit of Puyo Puyo and I'm familiar with the combo-building aspect, but I dunno how to make that go from falling blocks to platform fighting

I think the "falling block" oriented gameplay may be best translated by an emphasis on stage traps and utilizing your projectiles as active hitboxes to bounce and combo opponents off of. I'm inspired a lot by Dedede's Gordo traps or some of K. Rool's sillier combos off his cannonball.

Most of Smash's projectiles travel horizontally, so switching that up and having Arle toss her projectiles vertically above her to slowly travel back to the ground already has you thinking in more of a strategic puzzle solving way. You have a limited time before the pair of Puyo hits the ground and (at least in the context of Smash) likely dissipates, so in that time you want to get your opponent in an optimal position to toss or hit into your projectile at the right moment. I think it's really important that Arle isn't a standard zoner and is pressured to make tough, smart decisions within a restrictive time frame. And also finding incentive to keep the opponent close, so combos and "chains" can be created rather than playing a game of keep-away. Although naturally a tool like that could be pretty nasty as an offstage interference, so you'd want to be careful about that.

Maybe not quite meter oriented, but I think Arle would also have some kind of gauge or condition that grants her a single Garbage Puyo - which operates like a slightly heavier version of Villager's bowling ball (strength is maybe a bit below Wario Waft) to either drop on your opponent's head or plop onto the stage and remain planted as an active chip damage hitbox for a limited time. Maybe that condition is simply hitting your opponents with or into your Puyo however many times. The bottom line is Puyo is a really competitive game often compared to fighting games in spirit, so you want a character who can carry that energy, apply that pressure and wall you off in a more engaging way than tossing a fireball at you from half stage.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Honestly, if they needed to phase anything out I don't think we really need the stage biome stuff. It's a really cool quirk but if it's too demanding then I think he works fine without it. I guess it depends just how dedicated Sakurai is to that dizzying attention to detail but it doesn't strike me as a gameplay mechanic worth all the extra consideration when Steve can play virtually the same if it was removed.

Although programming stages would have to at least accommodate for placing blocks, which is the big thing, so I'm unsure which of the two is more time intensive anyway. I just do feel like Steve, and other DLC characters by proxy, got a lot of extra tools by virtue of being DLC and I'm curious which characters may end up neutered and brought to more of a base game level when they need to be made with the same amount of time and resources as the others.

You mean what materials the stages are made out of? That just has Steve check the terrain value of the platform that he's standing on when using Mine. I'm an extreme novice and I could probably whip up something like that in five minutes. Place Block is far and away the more difficult thing to code.

I wouldn't worry too much about characters losing moves and stuff if added in the base game. Steve's Place Block is probably the craziest thing the DLC characters have and being added in the base game is actually better for implementing something like that. The rest of the cast doesn't really have anything that other base roster characters don't. Kazuya and Hero's bigger move lists are probably the only super abnormal thing compared to previous games. Pyra/Mythra is even the easiest swap character to develop since they're clones of each other.

 

[Louie G.]

Seriously, this is how the next Smash game should do character guides: an in-depth showcase of their moves with video examples accompanied by text.

Even though I'm not really anticipating much in the realm of this outside of Smash Directs and character showcases, I want to say with the potential pivot back to drip-feeding veteran reveals leading up to release it may be beneficial to release gameplay teasers for each character.

Somewhat of a sweet-spot between the short videos on Ultimate's website and your typical character reveals you see in other fighting games like Street Fighter or Guilty Gear. Maybe using that format as a fun way to dual reveal as well, have Dedede whooping ass then switch over to Meta Knight footage. Etc etc. Production value doesn't have to be anything too crazy, maybe just short cinematic camera angles like we'd see in the Smash 4 DLC trailers. It would be an undertaking, but if we're looking at one or two of these videos a month and it's mostly just gameplay then you can probably set aside a team for that.

Bottom line is they should do something to engage people harder than booting up the website and seeing a picture of a returning character in my opinion. After Ultimate these veteran reveals will be even more tense and hotly anticipated, it's hard to imagine reverting fully to the way things were.

 

[SharkLord]

I think the "falling block" oriented gameplay may be best translated by an emphasis on stage traps and utilizing your projectiles as active hitboxes to bounce and combo opponents off of. I'm inspired a lot by Dedede's Gordo traps or some of K. Rool's sillier combos off his cannonball.

Most of Smash's projectiles travel horizontally, so switching that up and having Arle toss her projectiles vertically above her to slowly travel back to the ground already has you thinking in more of a strategic puzzle solving way. You have a limited time before the pair of Puyo hits the ground and (at least in the context of Smash) likely dissipates, so in that time you want to get your opponent in an optimal position to toss or hit into your projectile at the right moment. I think it's really important that Arle isn't a standard zoner and is pressured to make tough, smart decisions within a restrictive time frame. And also finding incentive to keep the opponent close, so combos and "chains" can be created rather than playing a game of keep-away. Although naturally a tool like that could be pretty nasty as an offstage interference, so you'd want to be careful about that.

Maybe not quite meter oriented, but I think Arle would also have some kind of gauge or condition that grants her a single Garbage Puyo - which operates like a slightly heavier version of Villager's bowling ball (strength is maybe a bit below Wario Waft) to either drop on your opponent's head or plop onto the stage and remain planted as an active chip damage hitbox for a limited time. Maybe that condition is simply hitting your opponents with or into your Puyo however many times. The bottom line is Puyo is a really competitive game often compared to fighting games in spirit, so you want a character who can carry that energy, apply that pressure and wall you off in a more engaging way than tossing a fireball at you from half stage.

Ah, I see. So I'd assume the Puyos (Or other hypothetical projectiles) would be something like the Belmont's Axe, then? Or would she just manifest the attacks above their heads and let them fall? Oh yeah, and if it falls fertically I'd imagine she might end up with some pretty potent anti-air potential too

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I just realized how similar the design ideas were for SSBU Sora and SSF2 Sora. Both:

• Are built around aerial attacks that stall air momentum on hit for combos.
• Have special moves that swap between fire, thunder, and ice magic in that order as you use them.
  • Said ice spell is literally the same attack in both versions.
• Have a side special that is an air dash with follow up attacks (though in SSBU's case, it's just more dashes)
• IIRC are pretty floaty.

In terms of how they handle, they are quite different, but it is interesting seeing two separate teams come up with the same ideas and then take them in different directions.

 

[smashkirby]

Reminds me

There was a problem fetching the tweet

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I feel like this was kind of self-evident, much as I love Puyo Puyo and Virtua Fighter, but interesting to know for sure. Smash has 2/3, so maybe they'll try going for some kind of Yakuza/Like A Dragon representation next, it would make plenty of sense. Ichiban needs a trailer featuring Hero.


Terrarian-stocks will rise. Might as well make the most out of all that Steve code.

I feel obligated to defend Puyo a bit here - I'll level with this and say the gap has significantly closed over the last few years, and Sega tends to treat Yakuza with a bit more esteem, but I feel like that has to do with Yakuza projects generally being higher budget AAA level affairs. That's how I'm reading this report, where Sonic / Yakuza / Persona are Sega's big three AAA franchises while Puyo Puyo - despite reportedly having their strongest brand recognition in Japan and last I checked still being Sega's second best selling IP - is just not an eyecatching blockbuster game as much as it is a reliable, consistent cornerstone of the company.

I think if you went for Puyo, it'd be more under the guise of a significant legacy series and playing hard into its arcade roots. Less to keep things contemporary, moreso to respect the history. Smash is no stranger to taking this angle instead and frankly, it would be welcome among Sega's current lineup.

I'm unsure what would take precedent though, I think there are strong cases from either side. In a perfect scenario I'd like both Arle and Kiryu / Ichiban in the game. Would be inclined to say Puyo may be more likely for a base roster pick, and Yakuza would be a killer DLC pick akin to Joker... which, suffice to say, the confidence in Persona to the extent of promising yearly content does bode well for Joker's return or some new Persona representation in the future.

Yeah, I was thinking something similiar. Like, I was a bit surprised that Puyo Puyo (of all things) WASN'T among those 'SEGA pillars' that Midori mentioned. Or maybe it's something of an 'unspoken 4th pillar' maybe?

I think the "falling block" oriented gameplay may be best translated by an emphasis on stage traps and utilizing your projectiles as active hitboxes to bounce and combo opponents off of. I'm inspired a lot by Dedede's Gordo traps or some of K. Rool's sillier combos off his cannonball.

Most of Smash's projectiles travel horizontally, so switching that up and having Arle toss her projectiles vertically above her to slowly travel back to the ground already has you thinking in more of a strategic puzzle solving way. You have a limited time before the pair of Puyo hits the ground and (at least in the context of Smash) likely dissipates, so in that time you want to get your opponent in an optimal position to toss or hit into your projectile at the right moment. I think it's really important that Arle isn't a standard zoner and is pressured to make tough, smart decisions within a restrictive time frame. And also finding incentive to keep the opponent close, so combos and "chains" can be created rather than playing a game of keep-away. Although naturally a tool like that could be pretty nasty as an offstage interference, so you'd want to be careful about that.

Maybe not quite meter oriented, but I think Arle would also have some kind of gauge or condition that grants her a single Garbage Puyo - which operates like a slightly heavier version of Villager's bowling ball (strength is maybe a bit below Wario Waft) to either drop on your opponent's head or plop onto the stage and remain planted as an active chip damage hitbox for a limited time. Maybe that condition is simply hitting your opponents with or into your Puyo however many times. The bottom line is Puyo is a really competitive game often compared to fighting games in spirit, so you want a character who can carry that energy, apply that pressure and wall you off in a more engaging way than tossing a fireball at you from half stage.

Speaking of Puyo Puyo, what are we looking at for playable characters?
Arle by herself?
Arle with Carbuncle occasionally attacking?
Arle with an Amitie echo? For that matter, maybe Ringo as an echo as well, in the sense that she uses electrical attacks instead of Arle and/or Amitie's spell set?
Arle with Amitie and Ringo alt. skins (Resulting in a situation where they try and get away with Smash handwaving Ringo's use of Arle's spells by claiming that Arle and Amitie taught Ringo their spells, a'la Ness and Lucas' party members teaching them PK Fire, Thunder, and Starstorm)?

Heck, maybe they'll throw a curveball and have Carbuncle or Amitie or Ringo as the playable Puyo rep instead?

 

[Kirbeh]

Yeah, I was thinking something similiar. Like, I was a bit surprised that Puyo Puyo (of all things) WASN'T among those 'SEGA pillars' that Midori mentioned. Or maybe it's something of an 'unspoken 4th pillar' maybe?



Speaking of Puyo Puyo, what are we looking at for playable characters?
Arle by herself?
Arle with Carbuncle occasionally attacking?
Arle with an Amitie echo? For that matter, maybe Ringo as an echo as well, in the sense that she uses electrical attacks instead of Arle and/or Amitie's spell set?
Arle with Amitie and Ringo alt. skins (Resulting in a situation where they try and get away with Smash handwaving Ringo's use of Arle's spells by claiming that Arle and Amitie taught Ringo their spells, a'la Ness and Lucas' party members teaching them PK Fire, Thunder, and Starstorm)?

Heck, maybe they'll throw a curveball and have Carbuncle or Amitie or Ringo as the playable Puyo rep instead?

Arle twice.

MM Arle, with Puyo Arle as her Toon/Young Link equivalent/counterpart. The other Puyo protags as background cameos as I'd prefer her alts to pull from her actual outfits.

 

[DarthEnderX]

To this day I still don't understand why they didn't hold off the little characters videos until they covered said characters on the blog. Instead they just dropped them all on E3.

To this day, I still don't understand why they didn't do those for the DLC characters.

How am I supposed to get an EiH supercut?!

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I just realized how similar the design ideas were for SSBU Sora and SSF2 Sora. Both:

• Are built around aerial attacks that stall air momentum on hit for combos.
• Have special moves that swap between fire, thunder, and ice magic in that order as you use them.
  • Said ice spell is literally the same attack in both versions.
• Have a side special that is an air dash with follow up attacks (though in SSBU's case, it's just more dashes)
• IIRC are pretty floaty.

In terms of how they handle, they are quite different, but it is interesting seeing two separate teams come up with the same ideas and then take them in different directions.

Thats because if you play Kingdom hearts long enough with the mindset of putting it's characters into smash that just feels like the natural way to go about them.

 

[pitchfulprocessing]

I feel obligated to defend Puyo a bit here - I'll level with this and say the gap has significantly closed over the last few years, and Sega tends to treat Yakuza with a bit more esteem, but I feel like that has to do with Yakuza projects generally being higher budget AAA level affairs. That's how I'm reading this report, where Sonic / Yakuza / Persona are Sega's big three AAA franchises while Puyo Puyo - despite reportedly having their strongest brand recognition in Japan and last I checked still being Sega's second best selling IP - is just not an eyecatching blockbuster game as much as it is a reliable, consistent cornerstone of the company.

I think if you went for Puyo, it'd be more under the guise of a significant legacy series and playing hard into its arcade roots. Less to keep things contemporary, moreso to respect the history. Smash is no stranger to taking this angle instead and frankly, it would be welcome among Sega's current lineup.

I'm unsure what would take precedent though, I think there are strong cases from either side. In a perfect scenario I'd like both Arle and Kiryu / Ichiban in the game. Would be inclined to say Puyo may be more likely for a base roster pick, and Yakuza would be a killer DLC pick akin to Joker... which, suffice to say, the confidence in Persona to the extent of promising yearly content does bode well for Joker's return or some new Persona representation in the future.

I agree, and I think Arle could still have a case made for her, it wouldn't be the first time Smash went for an important but lesser known/worse selling series from a company like Sega. Puyo Puyo's lack of popularity in the West would be a hurdle in comparison to other Sega franchises, but it's an important series with a lot of legacy.

On the note of Puyo Puyo, how'd you expect the puzzle elements to translate into gameplay? I've only played a bit of Puyo Puyo and I'm familiar with the combo-building aspect, but I dunno how to make that go from falling blocks to platform fighting

The other answers explain it well, but I think it's also worth noting that in-universe, Puyo battles are actually magic battles. Puyos are used as a conduit for casting spells, which is what the cut-in animations in the more recent games are. Arle is a full-on mage, and Carbuncle also has magic of his own, he once fired a beam that turned the moon into a sun lol.

And of course, Arle could be entirely based on Madou Monogatari and have a diverse moveset as a mage just from that, there are multiple large-scale Madou JRPGs released in Japan. I don't know how much Madou content you could reasonably expect given the rights are funky, but it's at least on the table.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I think the big bottom line nowadays is less about Nintendo appearances and more about the company having negotiations with Nintendo. So for instance, Joker had a single spinoff on the 3DS that I don't think was even out when he was selected for Smash. However, he's owned by Sega, and Sega's on pretty good terms with Nintendo, so negotiations weren't too big an issue.

With Genshin, it's kinda mixed because I don't know if MiHoYo has even released a game on Nintendo yet. Still, they said they were working on a Switch port, so they've surely had some negotiations behind the scenes. Going off of that, I'd say Genshin isn't a complete no-go.

Yeah, 100% that. I don't think it's a coincidence that a good chunk of the third-party Spirits are from companies that didn't really negotiate with Nintendo all that much prior to this game beyond "can I have my game on your console?"

Also, for clarity, Persona Q2 was out when Joker was first teased... for about a week. But I don't think it had any impact on Joker's selection specifically. Sega's relation with Nintendo, ATLUS having a whole series that is exclusive to Nintendo hardware (SMT) and the sheer success of Persona 5 may have more influence on the choice than a silly spin-off that was barely out.

It's not gatekeeping, though, never said it was impossible, just that it it's biggest roadblock.
Mostly because we have no idea if characters need to have apareared in a Nintendo console to be elegible, but it could be the case because all the characters so far have been in a Nintendo console, this might be disaproven in the future, but for now it's pausible to see it as a potential roadblock.

Sakurai has gone on record to say Nintendo appearances were more of a courtesy than an obligation.

But even more than just Sakurai's words above, there's also a reason people think Master Chief has a realistic shot despite a grand total of zero Nintendo appearances and all you need to see why is to look at the content Microsoft currently has in Smash. There's also that one cross-play trailer for Minecraft, showing that Microsoft and Nintendo are down to work together to advertise something.

Like ShakLord said, the biggest roadblock a Genshin character has isn't that the game isn't on Nintendo hardware but rather that MiHoYo itself hasn't really built a relation with Nintendo.

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

Wouldn't good old Bub be maybe a more workable idea for the puzzle character?
He's better known worldwide and he has a couple of platformer games to pull from to fill up his moveset too.

 

[Dinoman96]

But even more than just Sakurai's words above, there's also a reason people think Master Chief has a realistic shot despite a grand total of zero Nintendo appearances and all you need to see why is to look at the content Microsoft currently has in Smash.

I mean

Master Chief Skins Appear In Minecraft Switch

Banjo-Kazooie and Gears of War skins are also part of the pack.

www.gameinformer.com

The real "issue", if anything, is that Halo itself hasn't had any games published on Nintendo platforms. Of course...that may be changing over the next couple of years.

Microsoft's quest for short-term $$$ is doing long-term damage to Windows, Surface, Xbox, and beyond

Microsoft has made a range of baffling decisions and awful mis-steps recently. You can trace everything back to insatiable desire for money.

www.windowscentral.com

Microsoft bosses reportedly pushing for no "red line" around which Xbox games launch on PlayStation

A fresh report into the inner workings of Microsoft and the influence of its top boss Satya Nadella has shed new light …

www.eurogamer.net

 

[Gengar84]

I’ve asked this one before a while back but I’ll ask again since there are probably some new people here that didn’t see it last time. What improvements would you like to see for the stage builder in the next game? I actually had a lot of fun playing with Ultimate’s but there are definitely a lot of limitations that keep it from living up to its full potential. I’ve got a few ideas myself but I’m curious what anyone else here thinks. Are you even interested in the feature to begin with? It’s my favorite side mode in Ultimate so I really hope they keep it and improve it.

 

[Gorgonzales]

I’ve asked this one before a while back but I’ll ask again since there are probably some new people here that didn’t see it last time. What improvements would you like to see for the stage builder in the next game? I actually had a lot of fun playing with Ultimate’s but there are definitely a lot of limitations that keep it from living up to its full potential. I’ve got a few ideas myself but I’m curious what anyone else here thinks. Are you even interested in the feature to begin with? It’s my favorite side mode in Ultimate so I really hope they keep it and improve it.

For how versatile Ult's stage builder is, it's missing a lot of base features like copying. Also, it's hard to make platforms completely level. I fired up stage builder very recently and these two missing features instantly turned me off and made me lose interest, so I'd say they're very important and should be added to its next iteration.

 

[Perkilator]

What improvements would you like to see for the stage builder in the next game?

Add a feature that also lets you make your own Target Test

 

[Gengar84]

Add a feature that also lets you make your own Target Test

That’s an awesome idea. My friend tried to make those with the current stage builder using bomb blocks but the fact that you can’t choose spawn points really limited what he could do. While they’re at it, they could let you design your own Board the Platforms or Race to the Finish or even recreate the ones from past games.

A few other easy improvements I’d love to see that would help a lot are the ability to change material color and a much bigger selection for backgrounds. Ideally, I’d love the stage builder stages to be able to somewhat pass for actual stages in the game and not look like cardboard cut-outs of stage elements but that’s probably not really possible at this point.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I’ve asked this one before a while back but I’ll ask again since there are probably some new people here that didn’t see it last time. What improvements would you like to see for the stage builder in the next game? I actually had a lot of fun playing with Ultimate’s but there are definitely a lot of limitations that keep it from living up to its full potential. I’ve got a few ideas myself but I’m curious what anyone else here thinks. Are you even interested in the feature to begin with? It’s my favorite side mode in Ultimate so I really hope they keep it and improve it.

Semi-solid platforms that are actually semi-solid.


EDIT: And yeah, I'd like to see them add the background from all of the Battlefield/Ω versions of stages, and better optimization. Stages go over the 8-player limit so freaking quickly.

 

[Speed Weed]

Wouldn't good old Bub be maybe a more workable idea for the puzzle character?
He's better known worldwide and he has a couple of platformer games to pull from to fill up his moveset too.

If Sakurai was based we'd have both

 

[Oracle Link]

I’ve asked this one before a while back but I’ll ask again since there are probably some new people here that didn’t see it last time. What improvements would you like to see for the stage builder in the next game? I actually had a lot of fun playing with Ultimate’s but there are definitely a lot of limitations that keep it from living up to its full potential. I’ve got a few ideas myself but I’m curious what anyone else here thinks. Are you even interested in the feature to begin with? It’s my favorite side mode in Ultimate so I really hope they keep it and improve it.

First of blocks I get having drawing as an option but it shouldnt be forced!
Then a two fold texture revamp!
First of i wanna change texture and colour separtly for all textures from ultimate!
(the fact that youre forced to use metal if you want to have gray for example is dumb)
And than add new franchise textures like 1-1 Ground, Hylian Temple etc.
Than you add a story mode with levels and gimmicks and if you beat one you unlock that gimick in stage builder!
I know you can do a lot in ultimate but why do i have to draw an arwing myself? Instead after i beat the starfox level let me place one!
Or a master sword, or a wrecked guardian, or Bomb/ Star blocks from kirby!

And lastly add the option to make Target tests and platforming levels with bosses atz the end

Spoiler: Custom Zelda Level

You start out in Hyrule Field (Made from Grass, Dirt and Greay Marble) In that field are Octorks after you beat them you go into the lost Woods Were Dekus Spit at you and Tornados (from hyrule castle Dwell) the mid boss is the new fighter Skull kid in a custom arena after wards you run past the mastersword and go to a temple made from hylian textures there you fight darknut enemys! After youre done with those you pick up a key and go to a ganondorf Boss fight (First the fighter than him in giant using the demon king skin and than the oot ganon boss from ultimate)