Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Diddy Kong]

Now here's where I jump in. First party candidates are not running low. I could name quite a few characters that would be well received, all first party owned.

Isaac, Dixie Kong, Cranky Kong, Funky Kong, Toad, Captain Toad, Pauline, Waluigi, Bandana Dee, Marx, Adeline, Tom Nook, Ring Fit Trainer, Impa, Skull Kid, Midna, any of the BotW Champions, Lyn, Krystal, Slippy Toad, Sylux, Chozo Warrior who must be unnamed from Metroid Dread, Takamaru, Exite Biker, Balloon Fighter, Mach Rider...

Sure, they're not K.Rool or Ridley levels of hype, closest character to achieve that is probably Isaac, but they're still worthy additions, at least on the same level as other first party newcomers we got around Ultimate and Smash 4, again safe for K.Rool and Ridley.

 

[RileyXY1]

"Chief can't get in because Nintendo is biased toward Japanese."
Frankly, it's more that Sakurai and Nintendo have not been aware during this cycle. They are running out of massive Japanese characters. Heck, I see first party running low. Fact that we've seen more western characters making in in form of spirits and mii should prove that they are taking babystep.

Well, Western appeal characters usually tend to get in the base roster while the DLC leans more towards what the Japanese people want.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Now here's where I jump in. First party candidates are not running low. I could name quite a few characters that would be well received, all first party owned.

Isaac, Dixie Kong, Cranky Kong, Funky Kong, Toad, Captain Toad, Pauline, Waluigi, Bandana Dee, Marx, Adeline, Tom Nook, Ring Fit Trainer, Impa, Skull Kid, Midna, any of the BotW Champions, Lyn, Krystal, Slippy Toad, Sylux, Chozo Warrior who must be unnamed from Metroid Dread, Takamaru, Exite Biker, Balloon Fighter, Mach Rider...

Sure, they're not K.Rool or Ridley levels of hype, closest character to achieve that is probably Isaac, but they're still worthy additions, at least on the same level as other first party newcomers we got around Ultimate and Smash 4, again safe for K.Rool and Ridley.

Are they though?

One reason first party speculation has honed in on such a small number of candidates is at least to the largest number of people, those characters feel like they are worthy noticeable omissions. Out of your list, sure, a few that did have noticeable switch successes like Ring Fit, Pauline, Officer Howard, or Bandana Dee have a solid shot of being in the next game.

But at the same time, how necessary are characters like Funky Kong or Adeline to their franchises representation? Really, while smash has more or less pushed past the era of needing to represent core characters to their first party series, that’s because for most of the biggest ones they already have. Ridley got a lot of support not just for being a cool character with a lot of history, but for being the obvious non Samus Metroid rep in smash. Most of the biggest first partition requests left (Bandana Dee, Isaac, Waluigi) do have that degree of weight to their appearance beyond just being worthy of a spot due to being first party.

Likely for the next game, whether it is an Ultimate esque port or whatever, will draw its newcomers for first parties from the switch’s library. People
love to forget how Smash representation works: it looks at the previous console generation primarily. That’s why we got so many GameCube and GBA characters in Brawl or Wii characters in Smash 4. Part of the reason base game had so few third parties is there really was nothing significant to represent in smash from 2014-2016 Nintendo when the roster was chosen that didn’t get in. When they choose the first party characters for the next game, its going to be about how do they show off the switch era. Some characters, like Impa, Pauline, Ashley, Bandana Dee, Officer Howard, and Ring Fit Trainee will all be in a solid position as a result. We probably will see at least a handful of other first party picks, maybe Waluigi and Isaac, prob a new Pokémon. First parties are certainly far from dead, but the era of glaring omissions to smash outside of pushing the switch library is winding down.

 

[Garteam]

My complaint isn't with the low number of additional characters, but with the choice of who precious slots is given to in that roster.

Normally, we get one weird new retro Nintendo character in a roster with 10+ new character. Spending fully half of your new character slots on characters like that would be infuriating.

I mean, I added 13 unique newcomers (counting X and Zero as seperate), only two of which are retro Nintendo characters:

1. Ring Fit Adventurer
2. New Horizons Villager
3. Crash Bandicoot
4. Waluigi
5. Bandana Waddle Dee
6. X
7. Zero
8. Isaac
9. Master Chief
10. Takamaru
11. Toad
12. Ayumi Tachibana
13. Octoling

Retro characters actually make up a larger portion of Melee's unique newcomers (/) than my unique newcomers (2/13). Hell, if you want to nitpick, retro characters actually make up a slightly larger portion of Ultimate's unique, base game newcomers (/) than my unique newcomers.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Do they though ? Yeah, sure some do.

Dixie Kong or Cranky Kong would make the DKC roster complete, both have merit enough to be included actually.

Impa is as old as the Zelda franchise itself, has many playable roles as of late. Definitely has more than enough worthy of inclusion. The BotW Champions are from the most recent game that will decide the future of the franchise too. Then there's also Ganon, who's in a unique position by himself that he's easy to overlook but shouldn't come as too much of a surprise if included.

I don't see how Waluigi especially compares to them. I do see the appeal of a Astral Chain newcomer, and of course Isaac. I also stated Isaac was in a unique position himself, probably the most popular character from the ballot still left out.

 

[Guynamednelson]

That’s why we got so many GameCube and GBA characters in Brawl

To be fair, it's kind of easy to ignore that when (and his Pokemon)and the mere concept of Samus fighting without her armor debuted years before whatever GBA/GC game they'd be promoting, and only three of Brawl's newcomers were too new to be represented in Melee in any capacity. Or in Lucas' case, the version of Mother 3 we eventually got was.

Ignorance is bliss, and not knowing/caring about patterns among newcomers was what helped certain ballot characters earn their ballot demand in the first place.

 

[Perkilator]

More Forgotten Land screenshots, this time of the bosses

Battle the Beast Pack in #Kirby and the Forgotten Land!

These big bosses pack a punch! Use Kirby’s powerful copy abilities to take them down a peg! pic.twitter.com/1BbIL98vgn

— Nintendo of America (@NintendoAmerica) January 22, 2022

 

[Simnm]

Well, Western appeal characters usually tend to get in the base roster while the DLC leans more towards what the Japanese people want.

Since when i mean only character that i could think of in the base roster that appeals to the west is ridley

 

[TCT~Phantom]

To be fair, it's kind of easy to ignore that when (and his Pokemon)and the mere concept of Samus fighting without her armor debuted years before whatever GBA/GC game they'd be promoting, and only three of Brawl's newcomers were too new to be represented in Melee in any capacity. Or in Lucas' case, the version of Mother 3 we eventually got was.

Ignorance is bliss, and not knowing/caring about patterns among newcomers was what helped certain ballot characters earn their ballot demand in the first place.

Literally all of those characters got renewed relevancy during that era. Pokémon Fire Red Leaf Green came out before the project plan was in motion. Nightmare in Dreamland was also a big deal on the gba. WarioWare took off and it’s what wario is based more on. Zero Mission literally is credited as ZSS’ debut. Mother 3 was well into development for the gba when the project plan was in place. Diddy was a mainstay in Mario spin-offs and one of the only constant presences in an era where DK had a lot of soul searching. Out of those you listed, the only one who did not experience more relevancy was Wolf, the last minute semi clone who history loves to forget was a popular request at the time.

Yeah, people will be ignorant of certain trends that have predominantly stuck true. The fact I have seen multiple people suggest non video game characters in smash in this thread is proof enough of that alone. But this is one that arguably stuck around since Smash 64. The first party characters that predominantly get in are either popular or relevant.

 

[Among Waddle Dees]

But at the same time, how necessary are characters like Funky Kong or Adeline to their franchises representation? Really, while smash has more or less pushed past the era of needing to represent core characters to their first party series, that’s because for most of the biggest ones they already have. Ridley got a lot of support not just for being a cool character with a lot of history, but for being the obvious non Samus Metroid rep in smash. Most of the biggest first partition requests left (Bandana Dee, Isaac, Waluigi) do have that degree of weight to their appearance beyond just being worthy of a spot due to being first party.

If they want to further represent Rare's interpretation of Donkey Kong, Cranky could be a hybrid of moves and references from Country and the arcade games that the current DK isn't doing. Should they ever get the bright idea to give the Dreamland sequels the coverage they deserve, Adeleine could be a direct callback to that era as well as a potentially unique fighter.

Just because the forefront of speculation doesn't bring these two up often doesn't mean they don't have value. I know there are people who would enjoy these characters in the unlikely event they were to get added, alongside (or in some cases excluding) their franchises' frontrunners joining the battle.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Yeah, people will be ignorant of certain trends that have predominantly stuck true.

Yes, and in order for us to get some of our ballot newcomers:

We had to ignore the increased focus on giving various series their first fighter over expanding representation of previous series, with exceptions being characters like Greninja who recently debuted or Bowser Jr. whose moveset idea had to come after Brawl, and Sakurai himself believing Ridley's too big
Ditto the former+The more obvious focus on modern Nintendo in Smash 4 than adding Kirby characters who debuted in the first two Kirby games
Ditto what we had to ignore for K. Rool
We had to ignore how it was supposed to be over for him, period. Awakening got its reps, and Robin's FS was how Chrom was supposed to "get his chance".

 

[TCT~Phantom]

If they want to further represent Rare's interpretation of Donkey Kong, Cranky could be a hybrid of moves and references from Country and the arcade games that the current DK isn't doing. Should they ever get the bright idea to give the Dreamland sequels the coverage they deserve, Adeleine could be a direct callback to that era as well as a potentially unique fighter.

Just because the forefront of speculation doesn't bring these two up often doesn't mean they don't have value. I know there are people would enjoy these characters in the unlikely event they were to get added, alongside (or in some cases excluding) their franchises' frontrunners joining the battle.

Ask yourself, how likely is they actually do Adeline or Cranky Kong, especially given how the roster for literally every game has been chosen? It's better to be as realistic as possible for speculation. Are there characters I would be ecstatic to join the roster? Obviously. Characters like Lycanroc Dusk, Saki, Spyro, and Heavy are all picks that would make me elated, but being realistic I know they are not going to happen.

You have the freedom to like whoever you want No one is stopping you from imagining a scenario where we do get Adeline in Smash. But at the same time, its important to set realistic expectations. When they go for first party picks, overwhelmingly they go for either relevant characters or popular characters. You have the occasional exception like the retro and WTF picks, but even those can be either relevant like Wii Fit or historically important like Duck Hunt and ROB. It is better to keep your expectations as grounded as possible in order to avoid disappointment.

Yes, and in order for us to get some of our ballot newcomers:

We had to ignore the increased focus on giving various series their first fighter over expanding representation of previous series, with exceptions being characters like Greninja who recently debuted or Bowser Jr. whose moveset idea had to come after Brawl, and Sakurai himself believing Ridley's too big
Ditto the former+The more obvious focus on modern Nintendo in Smash 4 than adding Kirby characters who debuted in the first two Kirby games
Ditto what we had to ignore for K. Rool
We had to ignore how it was supposed to be over for him, period. Awakening got its reps, and Robin's FS was how Chrom was supposed to "get his chance".

Let me know when we get a ballot again, because the ballot era is dead and buried and bringing it up nowadays is a waste of time and effort. Either way, the point still stands that the picks chosen overwhelmingly are either relevant or popular. All four of those were popular picks according to Sakurai, and we know historically he does his best effort to include fan favorites since fan favorite picks for the next smash existed. You get to ignore relevancy when you are broadly popular instead of just popular on one website or not even that.

 

[SPEN18]

One reason first party speculation has honed in on such a small number of candidates is at least to the largest number of people, those characters feel like they are worthy noticeable omissions.

But the masses actually seem to miss a shocking number of pretty clearly worthy additions, at least until they are added and revisionism kicks in to the point that nobody can imagine cutting that character anymore. Wii Fit Trainer is perhaps the greatest example, but there are others. It's not always about raw popularity or what the community thinks is a can't-miss candidate, because a character can be worthy but become overlooked in terms of mainstream Smash popularity for any number of reasons.

Most of the biggest first partition requests left (Bandana Dee, Isaac, Waluigi) do have that degree of weight to their appearance beyond just being worthy of a spot due to being first party.

This comment makes it seem like you don't understand why Waluigi is popular. It's not primarily because he's important to Mario.

But the disconnect between popularity and actual importance (as measured imperfectly by various items such as plot relevance, iconicness/recognizability, appearing in well-selling and/or critically successful games, ...) goes further. Wolf probably beat Krystal in number of ballot votes, but that probably had more to do with him being a vet than people collectively agreeing that he is more important to Star Fox than her (whether you believe that he is or not). And between K. Rool and Dixie you could argue for either one being more important to DKC, so why did K. Rool become vastly more popular? Part of it is him being a heavy, a villain, an underdog, physically distinct from other DK characters, and any number of other things not pertaining at all to his importance to his series or to Nintendo.

Just because characters like Impa, Tom Nook, and company haven't achieved K. Rool's or Isaac's levels of popularity has actually very little to do with whether they are worthwhile additions. In fact, most of the characters Diddy listed have cases as strong or stronger than a pretty large number of characters currently on the roster which people apparently don't want to cut even in favor of more third parties.

the era of glaring omissions to smash outside of pushing the switch library is winding down

Okay, so Isaac was basically my MW since Brawl, but come on, he's not a "glaring omission" any more than true all-stars like Tom Nook and Dixie, or even a character like Lyn who is basically the Western Marth and at least arguably more important to FE than even characters like Ike.

Besides all that, being a "glaring omission" is hardly a requirement anyway. Probably most of the characters already on the roster would not even fall into that category if they weren't in the game. There's no point in arbitrarily raising the bar to Mario's level of iconicness or K. Rool's level of popularity/hype just to filter out clearly respectable choices in favor of third parties and/or hype culture.

--

And yes, I get that most of the first party characters who have gotten in have been either popular or relevant, but that doesn't mean things should or even will entirely proceed that way (there's a pretty real chance that those choosing the next roster won't be the same ones that we've had in the past). Besides, there's no reason that any of the first party characters being talked about now can't become more popular and/or relevant by the time the next project plan rolls around. Especially if we continue to talk about them instead of letting the Master Chief/Crash debates continue to spin their circles. I also get the desire to be realistic but most of the characters Diddy listed actually do have at least a decent shot of being rostered, and many have even been considered likely in certain speculation cycles. I wouldn't let realism get in the way of me rooting for a character I think is worthy anyway.

 

[Guynamednelson]

because the ballot era is dead and buried

Yes, the era in which we weren't trying too hard to be "realistic" resulting in shutting down discussion of various first-parties is indeed dead. If our beliefs in 2015 matched 2022, those characters plus Banjo would've never become playable. We'd still be stuck fighting a Ridley boss as a Mii in a crappy K. Rool costume.

 

[Among Waddle Dees]

Ask yourself, how likely is they actually do Adeline or Cranky Kong, especially given how the roster for literally every game has been chosen? It's better to be as realistic as possible for speculation. Are there characters I would be ecstatic to join the roster? Obviously. Characters like Lycanroc Dusk, Saki, Spyro, and Heavy are all picks that would make me elated, but being realistic I know they are not going to happen.

You have the freedom to like whoever you want No one is stopping you from imagining a scenario where we do get Adeline in Smash. But at the same time, its important to set realistic expectations. When they go for first party picks, overwhelmingly they go for either relevant characters or popular characters. You have the occasional exception like the retro and WTF picks, but even those can be either relevant like Wii Fit or historically important like Duck Hunt and ROB. It is better to keep your expectations as grounded as possible in order to avoid disappointment.


Let me know when we get a ballot again, because the ballot era is dead and buried and bringing it up nowadays is a waste of time and effort. Either way, the point still stands that the picks chosen overwhelmingly are either relevant or popular. All four of those were popular picks according to Sakurai, and we know historically he does his best effort to include fan favorites since fan favorite picks for the next smash existed.

I wasn't arguing they were realistic chances, which is why I wrote "unlikely."

Funny that you brought up my personal expectations; you know why I vouch for Adeleine? Because it's possible. Yes, long-shot levels of possible, but I can guarantee you the reason Adeleine has shown up in recent memory wasn't because HAL one day felt like it. It was something that had to be earned, through the expectations of the fanbase. And rest assured, in the few months before she finally appeared it started to look impossible. But it did happen.

I don't mean to put people down when I use that in context, but it goes to show how far the belief system can go. It's both a blessing and a curse, and primarily why shooting all possibilities down goes nowhere.

By the way, "be as realistic as possible for speculation"? You realize that's not what happened for Ultimate? They intentionally covered huge bombshell announcements to get the fanbase more and more hyped for the game. It's why Ultimate made me angry in the end; especially by 2015 ballot standards, much of what was expected for Smash on smaller scales was lost in translation.

 

[PeridotGX]

Literally all of those characters got renewed relevancy during that era. Pokémon Fire Red Leaf Green came out before the project plan was in motion. Nightmare in Dreamland was also a big deal on the gba. WarioWare took off and it’s what wario is based more on. Zero Mission literally is credited as ZSS’ debut. Mother 3 was well into development for the gba when the project plan was in place. Diddy was a mainstay in Mario spin-offs and one of the only constant presences in an era where DK had a lot of soul searching. Out of those you listed, the only one who did not experience more relevancy was Wolf, the last minute semi clone who history loves to forget was a popular request at the time.

Yeah, people will be ignorant of certain trends that have predominantly stuck true. The fact I have seen multiple people suggest non video game characters in smash in this thread is proof enough of that alone. But this is one that arguably stuck around since Smash 64. The first party characters that predominantly get in are either popular or relevant.

To be fair, there's a bit of a difference between those characters and the characters bemoaned in later games. Those characters had existed for at least a decade, while the "shill" picks of Smash 4 and Ultimate were much younger. I have no problem with the latter set (mostly), but there is a difference

 

[TCT~Phantom]

I mean, I added 13 unique newcomers (counting X and Zero as seperate), only two of which are retro Nintendo characters:

1. Ring Fit Adventurer
2. New Horizons Villager
3. Crash Bandicoot
4. Waluigi
5. Bandana Waddle Dee
6. X
7. Zero
8. Isaac
9. Master Chief
10. Takamaru
11. Toad
12. Ayumi Tachibana
13. Octoling

Retro characters actually make up a larger portion of Melee's unique newcomers (/) than my unique newcomers (2/13). Hell, if you want to nitpick, retro characters actually make up a slightly larger portion of Ultimate's unique, base game newcomers (/) than my unique newcomers.

I put together a roster for a hypothetical Ultimate Deluxe. Red borders denote newcomers with unique movesets, green borders denote new echo fighters.
View attachment 343231
Some notes:

• Dixie Kong is a Diddy echo, but she has DK's Up-Special (which she uses with her hair) and a unique grab + throws using her hair.
• The female Villager represents a second Villager whose appearance and moveset are based on Animal Crossing: New Horizons. Tom Nook is her echo fighter.
• Octoling is a unique fighter that uses Splatoon 2 and 3's weapons in her moveset rather than being an Inkling echo.
• Jin's moveset is based on his appearances in Tekken 3, Tekken Tag Tournament, and Tekken Tag Tournament 2 so that he could echo Kazuya, similar to how Ken's moveset is based on Street Fighter II Turbo so that he could echo Ryu.
• Mega Man X and Zero can swap between each other mid-battle, similar to Pokemon Trainer and Pyra/Mythra.

Decent roster, I dig the Dixie and Shadow echos. A Jin echo harking back to Tekken 3 is also a nice pick. I do think that making Tom Nook the echo while having a whole new villager as the newcomer would feel weird tho to me personally.

Newcomer wise I am more torn. As much as Crash and Chief for base would be a dream, I do not think we would get two microsoft reps in the base game. Similarly, I also think we could easily see a different Capcom rep, like Dante or Monster Hunter, than the maverick hunters. Shocked you did not have Officer Howard, especially considering that game did quite well for itself on the Switch and Nintendo bought the rights. Most of your newcomer choices outside of those and a lack of Howard are fine in my eyes.

Here would be mine. I don't feel like re downloading roster maker and tossing together a roster itself, so I will just list out my newcomers and echos.

Newcomers
1. Pauline
2. Waluigi
3. Ashely
4. Impa
5. Bandana Waddle Dee
6. Officer Howard
7. Isaac
8. Ring Fit Trainee
9. Gen whatever Pokemon
10. Takamaru
11. Crash Bandicoot
12. Alucard
13. Dante

Echo Fighters
1. Dixie Kong
2. Galacta Knight
3. Octoling
4. Shadow
5. Coco Bandicoot

Yes, the era in which we weren't trying too hard to be "realistic" resulting in shutting down discussion of various first-parties is indeed dead. If our beliefs in 2015 matched 2022, those characters plus Banjo would've never become playable. We'd still be stuck fighting a Ridley boss as a Mii in a crappy K. Rool costume.

Let me use smaller words so you will understand the point.

If you want your first party in smash, they need to be popular or relevant. It turns out, having an official poll that shows you are popular the the developers have the results with helps with that. The characters you listed are popular. Most of the characters that have gotten in are popular or relevant. Comparing now to the ballot era is a massive false equivalency.

While Smashboards has always been a haven for speculating on less obvious first party picks, you have to be realistic because surprised gasp most of the characters that get in are popular or relevant. This was true before the ballot. You probably don't know this because you were not here for Smash 4 speculation, but it was just like that before. People were for the most part speculating on either relevant picks or popular picks. This was true after the ballot. Splatoon, Isabelle, and something from XC2 were all super easy picks during speculation for Ult because they were relevant, while popular picks like K Rool and Ridley still were doing well for themselves. Heck, it was true during the ballot. Because the characters that got in due to the ballot were popular, while a sizeable contingent of people pushed characters like Elma, Bandana Dee, or Paper Mario.

I wasn't arguing they were realistic chances, which is why I wrote "unlikely."

Funny that you brought up my personal expectations; you know why I vouch for Adeleine? Because it's possible. Yes, long-shot levels of possible, but I can guarantee you the reason Adeleine has shown up in recent memory wasn't because HAL one day felt like it. It was something that had to be earned, through the expectations of the fanbase. And rest assured, in the few months before she finally appeared up it started to look impossible. But it did happen.

I don't mean to put people down when I use that in context, but it goes to show how far the belief system can go. It's both a blessing and a curse, and primarily why shooting all possibilities down goes nowhere.

By the way, "be as realistic as possible for speculation"? You realize that's not what happened for Ultimate? They intentionally covered huge bombshell announcements to get the fanbase more and more hyped for the game. It's why Ultimate made me angry in the end; especially by 2015 ballot standards, much of what was expected for Smash on smaller scales was lost in translation.

Its funny you say that, because I ran RTC in Ultimate and pushed it towards a debate format. Our track record for Ultimate, especially Ultimate DLC, was very good being as realistic as possible. We had Terry and Sephiroth as dark horse picks that were underrated by the community. Sure, we had our misses in speculation, writing off Tekken after the Heihachi Mii Costume and Incineroar was not the favorite Gen 7 pokemon on our front. But we were as realistic and we did a damn good job of getting things right, even despite what you think happened for Ult. Heck, even for base game we highlighted that K Rool was pretty likely even before the first trailer dropped at E3. Afterwords, when Ridley got in K Rool stock shot up. For base game, most of what the community thought of as frontrunners ended up getting in. Inkling was easy, but after E3 the community's track record was spot on. Most people in RTC expected ~6-8 unique characters. Isabelle, K Rool, Simon, and a Gen 7 pokemon were all common there. Being as realistic and grounded on the roster as possible turns out to give you a decent record of predicting how things turn out.

I get your point that Ultimate's biggering and biggering did cause a tonal shift for things. Beforehand, expectations were so much smaller. Now, Smash is a giant that has two of the largest corporations in the world providing DLC characters. With how Smash Ultimate has almost at this point already has almost outsold Smash Wii U, Brawl, and Melee combined, Smash likely will not be getting smaller anytime soon. Odds are, smash speculation will be just as tumultuous as it was this time if not moreso. You will have people hoping for their dream picks, trying to get others to take interest in them too. You will have people that set their expectations too high and anything short of their dream roster is a disappointment. You have first party elitists who cling to a phrase from Melee's marketing as a reason that third parties should be thanos snapped from the roster, only for them to inevitably get shot down for their deeply unpopular and unrealistic ideas. You will have a ton of people, and most of them are just going to argue and argue and argue. The spirit of smash speculation during the Smash 4 era, where you could push almost any first party to fill any niche in the roster, is more or less gone. For better and for worse.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I can't quote everyone, but let's just keep it simple that I believe the Brawl newcomers where added because they where most ominous at that given time. Diddy, Wario, King Dedede / Meta Knight, Pokemon Trainer or at least Charizard, all really had just the same reasons to be included in Melee. I already stated before that I believe Melee and Brawl followed a very similar pattern, the biggest difference is addition of 3rd party characters in Brawl.

I especially am aware of this because, well, I was actually around since Brawl speculation..... The relevance argument was at its all time highest around Smash 4. Ultimate followed a total unique pattern that was based on fan service (popularity), and whatever was feasible. Hence we got K.Rool, but not Dixie. K.Rool was the more popular character, and Dixie could not be made an Echo (unlike what people here like to say...).

Cranky has quite some reasons to be included. For example, he is confirmed to have a role in the Mario movie. Now, am no seer, but that seems like a big deal in establishing that Cranky is the OG DK from the Arcade. Also, whilst Dixie has some potential of being a semi clone of Diddy (NOT A ECHO FIGHTER!!!) , Cranky follows a trend of the Ultimate DLC characters where a character will be picked simply for being more unique than the "expected" character. Another character who was added for these reasons instead of the more "expected" character was Robin, whom was added over Chrom.

Also, not all the characters I listed will make it of course. I deliberately listed a few characters from franchises I feel could use a newcomer. So, either Dixie or Cranky (with Funky as a possible extra Echo), Impa -maybe as Echo maybe as semi clone- coupled with any other listed Zelda newcomer, one of the Kirby newcomers (betting on Bandana Dee tho)...

Seriously is it even safe to post your takes on this new game any more before considering all the views or opinions others think I will have because of these takes? Or should I analyze every possible take someone else could potentially have, by words I didn't even say?

 

[Yamat08]

So here's a question that's been on my mind for a while: What do you think about unlockable characters?

I guess in earlier games, I didn't have any particularly strong feelings one way or the other. They were just kinda this standard for every fighting game, and it wasn't as if the starting roster didn't give you a decent pool of characters to use. But then came Smash for WiiU, and it kinda bugged me how that game had so few unlockables, with even characters like Jigglypuff and Ganondorf being on the starting roster (despite needing to be unlocked in every other game they appeared in, including that game's 3DS counterpart). I felt it compounded Smash WiiU's already lackluster single-player to some degree, which is why I was actually excited when Ultimate announced that you'd need to unlock close to the entire roster. However, Ultimate's single-player, while far from being perfect, is decent enough to stand on its own without needing something else to do (and certainly a major improvement over Smash4). With that being said, if we do get Ultimate Special or something, I think it would be for the best if they just made the whole roster unlocked from the start. In fact, that would lend itself better to the Everyone Is Here tagline, letting anyone who gets the game just go at it (as an aside, it's pretty disappointing to watch Vtubers playing Ultimate and having almost none of the roster unlocked, made all the worse when several of them are far from the most skilled of players..... hell, a few of them can't even seem to move on from using just Kirby in World of Light, and their lack of savviness makes me doubt that he's simply their designated main).

 

[Diddy Kong]

So here's a question that's been on my mind for a while: What do you think about unlockable characters?

I guess in earlier games, I didn't have any particularly strong feelings one way or the other. They were just kinda this standard for every fighting game, and it wasn't as if the starting roster didn't give you a decent pool of characters to use. But then came Smash for WiiU, and it kinda bugged me how that game had so few unlockables, with even characters like Jigglypuff and Ganondorf being on the starting roster (despite needing to be unlocked in every other game they appeared in, including that game's 3DS counterpart). I felt it compounded Smash WiiU's already lackluster single-player to some degree, which is why I was actually excited when Ultimate announced that you'd need to unlock close to the entire roster. However, Ultimate's single-player, while far from being perfect, is decent enough to stand on its own without needing something else to do (and certainly a major improvement over Smash4). With that being said, if we do get Ultimate Special or something, I think it would be for the best if they just made the whole roster unlocked from the start. In fact, that would lend itself better to the Everyone Is Here tagline, letting anyone who gets the game just go at it (as an aside, it's pretty disappointing to watch Vtubers playing Ultimate and having almost none of the roster unlocked, made all the worse when several of them are far from the most skilled of players..... hell, a few of them can't even seem to move on from using just Kirby in World of Light).

Make everyone but the original 8 unlockable. That's my take.

 

[Laniv]

So here's a question that's been on my mind for a while: What do you think about unlockable characters?

I guess in earlier games, I didn't have any particularly strong feelings one way or the other. They were just kinda this standard for every fighting game, and it wasn't as if the starting roster didn't give you a decent pool of characters to use. But then came Smash for WiiU, and it kinda bugged me how that game had so few unlockables, with even characters like Jigglypuff and Ganondorf being on the starting roster (despite needing to be unlocked in every other game they appeared in, including that game's 3DS counterpart). I felt it compounded Smash WiiU's already lackluster single-player to some degree, which is why I was actually excited when Ultimate announced that you'd need to unlock close to the entire roster. However, Ultimate's single-player, while far from being perfect, is decent enough to stand on its own without needing something else to do (and certainly a major improvement over Smash4). With that being said, if we do get Ultimate Special or something, I think it would be for the best if they just made the whole roster unlocked from the start. In fact, that would lend itself better to the Everyone Is Here tagline, letting anyone who gets the game just go at it (as an aside, it's pretty disappointing to watch Vtubers playing Ultimate and having almost none of the roster unlocked, made all the worse when several of them are far from the most skilled of players..... hell, a few of them can't even seem to move on from using just Kirby in World of Light, and their lack of savviness makes me doubt that he's simply their designated main).

Third party characters should always be unlockable.

 

[Idon]

So here's a question that's been on my mind for a while: What do you think about unlockable characters?

I guess in earlier games, I didn't have any particularly strong feelings one way or the other. They were just kinda this standard for every fighting game, and it wasn't as if the starting roster didn't give you a decent pool of characters to use. But then came Smash for WiiU, and it kinda bugged me how that game had so few unlockables, with even characters like Jigglypuff and Ganondorf being on the starting roster (despite needing to be unlocked in every other game they appeared in, including that game's 3DS counterpart). I felt it compounded Smash WiiU's already lackluster single-player to some degree, which is why I was actually excited when Ultimate announced that you'd need to unlock close to the entire roster. However, Ultimate's single-player, while far from being perfect, is decent enough to stand on its own without needing something else to do (and certainly a major improvement over Smash4). With that being said, if we do get Ultimate Special or something, I think it would be for the best if they just made the whole roster unlocked from the start. In fact, that would lend itself better to the Everyone Is Here tagline, letting anyone who gets the game just go at it (as an aside, it's pretty disappointing to watch Vtubers playing Ultimate and having almost none of the roster unlocked, made all the worse when several of them are far from the most skilled of players..... hell, a few of them can't even seem to move on from using just Kirby in World of Light, and their lack of savviness makes me doubt that he's simply their designated main).

Pain in the ass that just makes starting up the game unfun.

I've had to unlock the entire roster like... 3 times now across the years.
It was fun maybe once.

 

[Dan Quixote]

So here's a question that's been on my mind for a while: What do you think about unlockable characters?

I guess in earlier games, I didn't have any particularly strong feelings one way or the other. They were just kinda this standard for every fighting game, and it wasn't as if the starting roster didn't give you a decent pool of characters to use. But then came Smash for WiiU, and it kinda bugged me how that game had so few unlockables, with even characters like Jigglypuff and Ganondorf being on the starting roster (despite needing to be unlocked in every other game they appeared in, including that game's 3DS counterpart). I felt it compounded Smash WiiU's already lackluster single-player to some degree, which is why I was actually excited when Ultimate announced that you'd need to unlock close to the entire roster. However, Ultimate's single-player, while far from being perfect, is decent enough to stand on its own without needing something else to do (and certainly a major improvement over Smash4). With that being said, if we do get Ultimate Special or something, I think it would be for the best if they just made the whole roster unlocked from the start. In fact, that would lend itself better to the Everyone Is Here tagline, letting anyone who gets the game just go at it (as an aside, it's pretty disappointing to watch Vtubers playing Ultimate and having almost none of the roster unlocked, made all the worse when several of them are far from the most skilled of players..... hell, a few of them can't even seem to move on from using just Kirby in World of Light, and their lack of savviness makes me doubt that he's simply their designated main).

Unlockable characters are great, they're a staple that are an intrinsic part of the culture of fighting games since the nineties.

Buuuuut maybe making 70 characters unlockable in SSBU was a bit much.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I find it fun to unlock characters.

Just, you know, not almost the entire roster. .-.

Though it's good to have a method other than directly fighting them(as long as you can try the other method, via erasing "characters you unlock" like previous games). Depending what you want to do. The option is very nice. Simple and fun.

 

[SPEN18]

TCT~Phantom I think you should be more accepting of the fact that many people on here have agendas not very much related to likelihood or accurately predicting the roster. Pushing obscure and/or undervalued characters is completely valid even within a paradigm dominated by realism since

(1) these sorts of characters do happen every once in a while;

(2) most of the people pushing for these characters do so at their own risk and fully admit to their unlikelihood, but still are usually able to come up with some reasonable (if relatively unlikely) scenarios in which these characters could hypothetically be chosen;

(3) even failing (2), supporters can at least come up with good reasons why their character should be chosen, even if they probably won't, which is totally valid discussion; and

(4) increased visibility for a character is a positive outcome that can be realistically achieved within the framework of Smash speculation even if the goal of getting a PC is not attained or remains unlikely to be attained.

As a separate point, I think you're giving RTC too much credit. Just having characters like Sephiroth or Terry on your radar is not the same at all as outright predicting them or even viewing them as especially likely and/or frontrunners; in fact, it's borderline revisionist. I haven't gone back to look at the actual results for RTC (and feel free to quote them against me if you so desire) but it's clear that a healthy number of the Ultimate choices including Joker, Terry, and Kazuya were pretty far from community expectations. Even certain other ones like Simon and Dragon Quest it's hard to take full credit for predicting, due to leaks.

--

As for unlockables, well, I don't have a strong opinion on it as long as the unlock methods aren't crazily inconvenient/difficult. There is some value to more obscure and/or legacy characters being unlockable since it forces the player to recognize them for a hot moment when they are first encountered.

 

[Yamat08]

Come to think of it, Melee Mewtwo was a real pain in the ass to get. Thankfully, they've never recreated something like that ever since (though I suppose Brawl forces you to put in a lot of time in order to get the final three: Jigglypuff, Toon Link, and Wolf, who will only show up after everyone else if you do Vs. matches, while their alternate unlock methods require Subspace Emissary to be completed).

Make everyone but the original 8 unlockable. That's my take.

I remember one YouTube video made an interesting point about the N64 roster: the original 8 have pretty basic specials and are easy to pick up overall, while Luigi, Captain Falcon, Ness, and Jigglypuff are held off due to their more advanced methods of gameplay. That does make sense considering how Luigi was a more risk vs. reward clone of Mario, the famous Falcon Punch requires perfect timing, Jigglypuff relies on status and sweetspotting, and Ness has a very unusual recovery, among some other factors I'm sure I didn't list.

 

[chocolatejr9]

TCT~Phantom I think you should be more accepting of the fact that many people on here have agendas not very much related to likelihood or accurately predicting the roster. Pushing obscure and/or undervalued characters is completely valid even within a paradigm dominated by realism since

(1) these sorts of characters do happen every once in a while;

(2) most of the people pushing for these characters do so at their own risk and fully admit to their unlikelihood, but still are usually able to come up with some reasonable (if relatively unlikely) scenarios in which these characters could hypothetically be chosen;

(3) even failing (2), supporters can at least come up with good reasons why their character should be chosen, even if they probably won't, which is totally valid discussion; and

(4) increased visibility for a character is a positive outcome that can be realistically achieved within the framework of Smash speculation even if the goal of getting a PC is not attained or remains unlikely to be attained.

As a separate point, I think you're giving RTC too much credit. Just having characters like Sephiroth or Terry on your radar is not the same at all as outright predicting them or even viewing them as especially likely and/or frontrunners; in fact, it's borderline revisionist. I haven't gone back to look at the actual results for RTC (and feel free to quote them against me if you so desire) but it's clear that a healthy number of the Ultimate choices including Joker, Terry, and Kazuya were pretty far from community expectations. Even certain other ones like Simon and Dragon Quest it's hard to take full credit for predicting, due to leaks.

--

As for unlockables, well, I don't have a strong opinion on it as long as the unlock methods aren't crazily inconvenient/difficult. There is some value to more obscure and/or legacy characters being unlockable since it forces the player to recognize them for a hot moment when they are first encountered.

Man, I wish I was good at writeups. I'd probably be able to convince people that some of my weirder wants aren't that bad of ideas...

In unrelated news, here's something that might not be a hint towards a Direct next month, but I'm gonna treat it as one anyways because Xenoblade:

Xenoblade 1 & 2 Composer, Yasunori Mitsuda, States New Project Announcement Next Month (If Luck Permits It) - https://t.co/SrQo3LTy51 pic.twitter.com/OWSPzmjuMP

— Noisy Pixel (@NoisyPixelNews) January 22, 2022

 

[Diddy Kong]

Man, I wish I was good at writeups. I'd probably be able to convince people that some of my weirder wants aren't that bad of ideas...

In unrelated news, here's something that might not be a hint towards a Direct next month, but I'm gonna treat it as one anyways because Xenoblade:

Xenoblade 1 & 2 Composer, Yasunori Mitsuda, States New Project Announcement Next Month (If Luck Permits It) - https://t.co/SrQo3LTy51 pic.twitter.com/OWSPzmjuMP

— Noisy Pixel (@NoisyPixelNews) January 22, 2022

A game which main character will very likely be included in the next Smash. I got to learn of Xenoblade thanks to Smash, am very thankful for the overall experience. I only played Shulk's game on Switch and XBC2, and out of the two I prefer Shulk's game so, I hope this next Xenoblade takes more towards that direction. Am pretty sure the Blade system will stay, or be expanded upon though. Could mean we might see the return of a form of Pyra or Mythra even.

 

[Ivander]

Man, I wish I was good at writeups. I'd probably be able to convince people that some of my weirder wants aren't that bad of ideas...

In unrelated news, here's something that might not be a hint towards a Direct next month, but I'm gonna treat it as one anyways because Xenoblade:

Xenoblade 1 & 2 Composer, Yasunori Mitsuda, States New Project Announcement Next Month (If Luck Permits It) - https://t.co/SrQo3LTy51 pic.twitter.com/OWSPzmjuMP

— Noisy Pixel (@NoisyPixelNews) January 22, 2022

Smash speculators: "Who's going to be the next main character who could be in Smash?"
Artists: "Who are going to be the next waifus we draw alot of?"
---
That aside, assuming a Direct is planned for next month, I wonder what games we're going to get shown.

 

[Among Waddle Dees]

Its funny you say that, because I ran RTC in Ultimate and pushed it towards a debate format. Our track record for Ultimate, especially Ultimate DLC, was very good being as realistic as possible. We had Terry and Sephiroth as dark horse picks that were underrated by the community. Sure, we had our misses in speculation, writing off Tekken after the Heihachi Mii Costume and Incineroar was not the favorite Gen 7 pokemon on our front. But we were as realistic and we did a damn good job of getting things right, even despite what you think happened for Ult. Heck, even for base game we highlighted that K Rool was pretty likely even before the first trailer dropped at E3. Afterwords, when Ridley got in K Rool stock shot up. For base game, most of what the community thought of as frontrunners ended up getting in. Inkling was easy, but after E3 the community's track record was spot on. Most people in RTC expected ~6-8 unique characters. Isabelle, K Rool, Simon, and a Gen 7 pokemon were all common there. Being as realistic and grounded on the roster as possible turns out to give you a decent record of predicting how things turn out.

I know this has been covered before, but I did some research.

Rate Their Chances - Smash Ultimate Edition! Day 672: Five Most Likely First and Third Parties for Smash 6, and Final Goodbyes | Page 492 | Smashboards

Rate Their Chances - Smash Ultimate Edition! Day 672: Five Most Likely First and Third Parties for Smash 6, and Final Goodbyes | Page 493 | Smashboards

Convenient how SNK and Tekken were rated at the same time. Anyway, say what you will about people wanting these franchises, that's more fluctuant for sure. However, it looks like a lot of these chance ratings are not particularly high. SNK apparently did not get that many ratings that were higher than 50%, and although Tekken had more favors, people were not exactly banking on Tekken getting a character, for a number of reasons. Granted, I could be wrong on the percentages, but this was what I could find from before the SNK leak. All this may look foolish in hindsight, but this was what people were guessing at the time, when there was barely any guidance on the character decisions. If we must go by this data to determine who got in, there could potentially be quite a lot of characters with similar percentages that would fit this criteria; yet none of those options got in. Being on a radar does not make these characters a target for inclusion, especially now.

And I should've stressed this earlier, but totally forgot to: although it's certainly wise to keep expectations low, there's also a bit of wisdom in keeping some long-shot hopes slightly present, in the uncommon chance you get pleasantly surprised.

 

[SolarPCG]

So here's a question that's been on my mind for a while: What do you think about unlockable characters?

I guess in earlier games, I didn't have any particularly strong feelings one way or the other. They were just kinda this standard for every fighting game, and it wasn't as if the starting roster didn't give you a decent pool of characters to use. But then came Smash for WiiU, and it kinda bugged me how that game had so few unlockables, with even characters like Jigglypuff and Ganondorf being on the starting roster (despite needing to be unlocked in every other game they appeared in, including that game's 3DS counterpart). I felt it compounded Smash WiiU's already lackluster single-player to some degree, which is why I was actually excited when Ultimate announced that you'd need to unlock close to the entire roster. However, Ultimate's single-player, while far from being perfect, is decent enough to stand on its own without needing something else to do (and certainly a major improvement over Smash4). With that being said, if we do get Ultimate Special or something, I think it would be for the best if they just made the whole roster unlocked from the start. In fact, that would lend itself better to the Everyone Is Here tagline, letting anyone who gets the game just go at it (as an aside, it's pretty disappointing to watch Vtubers playing Ultimate and having almost none of the roster unlocked, made all the worse when several of them are far from the most skilled of players..... hell, a few of them can't even seem to move on from using just Kirby in World of Light, and their lack of savviness makes me doubt that he's simply their designated main).

I think it's important to strike a balance between convenience and the satisfaction of accomplishing something. Smash 4 and Ultimate are polar opposites in this regard. Smash 4 prioritizes the ease of use, giving you almost everything right from the beginning at the expense. Ultimate prioritizes the spectacle and accomplishment, requiring almost everything to be unlocked over time. But, as most people who have played the games will know, they each sacrifice the other important factor. Ultimate sacrifices convenience, Smash 4 sacrifices accomplishment.

I personally loved unlocking Ultimate's roster, but that's because I went out of my way to not do it the "optimal" way. If you're trying to unlock everything as fast as possible, it becomes hours of mindnumbing busy work that don't even guarantee you get what you want immediately. From my observations and own personal experiences, a lot of players tend to optimize the fun out of the games they play. This heavily incentivizes making the most optimal course of action the most "fun".

I don't like saying "if I was the dev" because of how many external factors affect game development, but in a vacuum, I'd try and tie character unlocks in future games to specialized events centered around them. Events are quick to complete and can become even faster as the player's skill increases, which means players who have already unlocked the roster won't take as much time on the second time around. And, if done well, events should provide a sense of accomplishment and convenience, assuming they can be accessed at any point. But the most important thing that's accounted for here is the fact that events are something that can deliberately chosen. You don't stumble into events after 10 minutes, it's a conscious decision.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I mean, I added 13 unique newcomers (counting X and Zero as seperate), only two of which are retro Nintendo characters:

Okay, I missed a ton then. I thought everyone but Taka, Ayu, Chief and Crash were echoes.

Retro characters actually make up a larger portion of Melee's unique newcomers (/)

Again, retro is not my issue. Retro nobodies is. That's just Ice Climbers and G&W(and I guess Marth in NA at least).

Now here's where I jump in. First party candidates are not running low. I could name quite a few characters that would be well received, all first party owned.

Isaac, Dixie Kong, Cranky Kong, Funky Kong, Toad, Captain Toad, Pauline, Waluigi, Bandana Dee, Marx, Adeline, Tom Nook, Ring Fit Trainer, Impa, Skull Kid, Midna, any of the BotW Champions, Lyn, Krystal, Slippy Toad, Sylux, Chozo Warrior who must be unnamed from Metroid Dread, Takamaru, Exite Biker, Balloon Fighter, Mach Rider...

Lol. Well received by who? Half of those are "literal who"s outside of this board.

 

[Lionfranky]

Well, Western appeal characters usually tend to get in the base roster while the DLC leans more towards what the Japanese people want.

The only third party dlc that heavily leans to Japan was Dragon Quest. Rest of dlc have world wide appeal more so than Japan centric. Only Banjo was heavily western.

 

[SPEN18]

Okay, I missed a ton then. I thought everyone but Taka, Ayu, Chief and Crash were echoes.

Again, retro is not my issue. Retro nobodies is. That's just Ice Climbers and G&W(and I guess Marth in NA at least).

Lol. Well received by who? Half of those are "literal who"s outside of this board.

Maybe I shouldn't even respond to this; no offense intended and I don't mean to antagonize or stir the pot unnecessarily, but it comes off as pretty thoughtless.

Well-receivedness probably refers to those buying or considering buying Smash. A group of people which intersects almost entirely with Nintendo gamers of all types, casual to hardcore. Most of these people play some combination of the mainline Mario, DK, Kirby, Animal Crossing, etc. games that the listed characters appear in (generally with meaningful, relevant, and significant roles). Several of these games like Mario Kart, Majora's Mask, BotW, Animal Crossing, etc. can easily be classified as mainstream or even culturally pervasive. And some are legit more recognizable than the majority of Ultimate's DLC characters, especially for audiences on Nintendo platforms.

 

[Shroob]

Am I the only one not super interested in a Direct now that the DLC's done?



Like, the sole reason I tuned into the Directs was due to the anticipation of news and when it'd air, but now that Smash is done, like, honestly I can suffice with Twitter and Youtube drops for news.


I'm still very, VERY curious about BotW2, and the new Kirby game looks great, but without Smash news to look forward to, the idea of a Direct feels less..... urgent, I guess? Especially when other avenues are clearly open to present info.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Am I the only one not super interested in a Direct now that the DLC's done?



Like, the sole reason I tuned into the Directs was due to the anticipation of news and when it'd air, but now that Smash is done, like, honestly I can suffice with Twitter and Youtube drops for news.


I'm still very, VERY curious about BotW2, and the new Kirby game looks great, but without Smash news to look forward to, the idea of a Direct feels less..... urgent, I guess? Especially when other avenues are clearly open to present info.

Not me. I've been dying to see BotW2, but these year long rumors of a new Donkey Kong game make all potential Directs all the more excited. I was a Donkey Kong fan before I was a Smash fan after all, and it's one of the more neglected franchises of high quality and potential.

I'm also hoping for new Fire Emblem news, and the potential of the revival of Golden Sun.

Lol. Well received by who? Half of those are "literal who"s outside of this board.

Pretty sure that's just your opinion.

Most of these characters will be well known by the majority of Smash fans, simply cause most characters are from already well established franchises , or are present in Smash Ultimate one way or another, or had a recent or very well known game to back up their recognizability.

 

[SolarPCG]

Am I the only one not super interested in a Direct now that the DLC's done?



Like, the sole reason I tuned into the Directs was due to the anticipation of news and when it'd air, but now that Smash is done, like, honestly I can suffice with Twitter and Youtube drops for news.


I'm still very, VERY curious about BotW2, and the new Kirby game looks great, but without Smash news to look forward to, the idea of a Direct feels less..... urgent, I guess? Especially when other avenues are clearly open to present info.

I can't help but agree a little bit. A new character getting added into Smash transcended Nintendo, it was a global gaming event. The only confirmed upcoming game that'll be anywhere that level, in my opinion, is BOTW 2. There's nothing currently known that you want to be there for. Nobody, at least I don't think so, was so hyped for the new Kirby game that they said "I WAS HERE".

 

[DarthEnderX]

Several of these games like Mario Kart, Majora's Mask, BotW, Animal Crossing, etc. can easily be classified as mainstream or even culturally pervasive.

And several aren't.

If you honestly think there's a ton of people who are going to be hyped about the likes of Takamaru...Balloon Fighter...Mach Rider...

Most of these characters will be well known by the majority of Smash fans, simply cause most characters are from already well established franchises , or are present in Smash Ultimate one way or another, or had a recent or very well known game to back up their recognizability.

I think that depends on what you consider a "Smash fan". And if you're definition of a "Smash fan" is someone that would be hyped about a character they've never heard of outside of being an Assist Trophy in Smash, your definition of "Smash fan" is, like, less than 10% of Smash's actual customer base. Again, I think you are conflating the attitudes and knowledge of this board to those of a wider group of Smash players and owners. If you've convinced yourself that most people would be like "Oh **** yeah! Funky Kong!", you're going to be disappointed.

 

[Shroob]

And several aren't.

If you honestly think there's a ton of people who are going to be hyped about the likes of Takamaru...Balloon Fighter...Mach Rider...

I think that depends on what you consider a "Smash fan". And if you're definition of a "Smash fan" is someone that would be hyped about a character they've never heard of outside of being an Assist Trophy in Smash, your definition of "Smash fan" is, like, less than 10% of Smash's actual customer base. Again, I think you are conflating the attitudes and knowledge of this board to those of a wider group of Smash players and owners. If you've convinced yourself that most people would be like "Oh **** yeah! Funky Kong!", you're going to be disappointed.

Yeah, hell, I'll go as far as to say it's less than 1%.


People get soo wrapped up in the online echo chamber that we forget that Ultimate sold like, 24-25 MILLION copies of Smash, and sites like this have like, at best, 100 active users on at any given time, at BEST.


Us hardcore Smash fans are a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a percent.



Now sometimes our voices are heard, like with the ballot, but we're such a small, insignificant number compared to the casual userbase that it's not even funny.

 

[DarthEnderX]

The ones that would ACTUALLY be "well received"?

Isaac: No (perfect example of a character that'd be huge here, and nobody outside of SmashBoards gives a **** about)
Dixie Kong: Yes
Cranky Kong: Maybe
Funky Kong: No
Toad/Captain Toad: Yes
Pauline: Yes
Waluigi: Yes
Bandana Dee: Maybe
Marx: No
Adeline: No
Tom Nook: Yes
Ring Fit Trainer: Hmm...that game sold really well, but I question how much crossover there is between it an Smash. Wii Fit Trainer's reception was pretty mediocre.
Impa: Yes
Skull Kid: Yes
Midna: Maybe
any of the BotW Champions: Depends on the Champion
Lyn: No
Krystal: Yes
Slippy Toad: No
Sylux: No
Raven Beak: No
Takamaru: No
ExiteBiker: No
Balloon Fighter: No
Mach Rider: No