Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[LiveStudioAudience]

Nintendo could do a lot worse than taking the elements from the first two continuities and applying them both for the Zero line. Get Miyu, Fay, & Krystal as selectable pilots in the next game, while teasing the backstory of how the latter joined the team, and if the game sells well enough? Do a reimagining of Adventures that allows it to fit into the current continuity as an interquel, and actually fulfill the potential of what the game could have been (including a playable Krystal campaign).

 

[dream1ng]

Regarding Zero had Krystal hypothetically been included, now, correct me if I'm wrong, but the characters for base were decided at pretty much the same time Zero was experiencing its promotion in the lead-up to launch, and it was originally set to come out around the time the project plan for Ultimate was finished.

Combined with the ballot being contemporary, with Krystal's popularity peaking much higher, as aided by her appearance in Zero, I'd think that mix of things is the ideal combination you could ask for in terms of her chances. It was when there was the promise of the game before the muted fallout, featuring a popular character with ballot support.

In all likelihood, she probably still wouldn't have made it, because you have to consider the original first-parties were limited basically to three slots (with the mandated Pokemon slot aside). But I don't think her inclusion would've be out of the question either. The timing of everything would've been quite favorable to her.

 

[Dinoman96]

Yeah unfortunately at her best, Krystal would of just been the Star Fox equivalent of Bandana Dee, Impa and Dixie Kong, those fourth stringer characters people keep insisting should be in, to no avail. But even those characters are considerably more popular and relevant, as their respective series have always been more popular and relevant than Star Fox. So if they can't get in, well....

 

[Sucumbio]

Honestly I would love if Krystal just explored Space on Foot with a Vehicle that allows her to get from Planet to Planet, but she explores the Planets themselves on foot with a thick spacesuit as protection.

So, a furry Samus?

 

[dream1ng]

So, a furry Samus?

It's only a matter of time until one of Samus' suits is furry.

 

[chocolatejr9]

So, a furry Samus?

I mean, she WAS raised by bird people...

 

[Yamat08]

Yeah unfortunately at her best, Krystal would of just been the Star Fox equivalent of Bandana Dee, Impa and Dixie Kong, those fourth stringer characters people keep insisting should be in, to no avail. But even those characters are considerably more popular and relevant, as their respective series have always been more popular and relevant than Star Fox. So if they can't get in, well....

I wonder where that places Leon. I've seen him brought up a bit since he's pretty much to Wolf what Falco is to Fox (granted, I think the most suggestions for him came about when Echo speculation was at its most rampant).

 

[Diddy Kong]

Yeah unfortunately at her best, Krystal would of just been the Star Fox equivalent of Bandana Dee, Impa and Dixie Kong, those fourth stringer characters people keep insisting should be in, to no avail. But even those characters are considerably more popular and relevant, as their respective series have always been more popular and relevant than Star Fox. So if they can't get in, well....

Krystal had just as much popularity back in the days around Brawl as these other mentioned characters. Wolf vs Krystal debates where frequent, and even hostile, they where both just as popular.

Impa, Dixie and Bandana Dee would've made it in if Ultimate didn't fixate so much on adding new third party franchises. You're underselling Krystal and these other characters greatly I feel.

There's a reason she showed up as a Assist Trophy in Ultimate. She's hugely popular, it's just that the Star Fox franchise is in a horrible state right now.

I'm pretty sure we'll see Impa, Bandana Dee, and a new Kong this next game, I'm personally thinking it's gonna be Cranky and not Dixie though, even if I prefer Dixie.

 

[osby]

Impa, Dixie and Bandana Dee would've made it in if Ultimate didn't fixate so much on adding new third party franchises.

Eh, this is a big what-if.

The unique Nintendo characters Ultimate added were either from recent games (), intentionally added for the sake of novelty (), with only two characters really having hordes of fans screaming for their inclusion (). There's very little that suggests we'd get more old fan-favorite picks if there were fewer third-parties.

Maybe Dixie and Impa could get in as echo fighters or Isabelle-like semi-clones but again, that depends on how Sakurai would want them to be implemented.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I doubt Dixie or Impa would've been Echoes. They would have been in Ultimate if they where considered to be so. Both had very sizable support, I'd say moreso than at least Dark Samus, Daisy and Chrom had good support but nothing too major. Impa was the most popular and expected Zelda newcomer, Dixie one of the most expected characters in general since Smash 4.

The third party statement is probably wrong though. I think the biggest reason for their omission was Everyone Is Here. Am sure Impa and Dixie would be included if Ultimate followed a newcomer pattern that Smash 4 did.

 

[Will]

I doubt Dixie or Impa would've been Echoes. They would have been in Ultimate if they where considered to be so. Both had very sizable support, I'd say moreso than at least Dark Samus, Daisy and Chrom had good support but nothing too major. Impa was the most popular and expected Zelda newcomer, Dixie one of the most expected characters in general since Smash 4.

Fan demand =/= Not being an Echo?

Dixie is an easy conversion from Diddy Kong's model and could've definitely been an Echo if given the opportunity. Swap the skeleton, give her the DK Twirl with her hair as an up special, that's a whole character right there. I've been saying it for years and I was also right that everyone on Dixie's side is unnecessarily hostile about that truth. I don't care if she's such a unique character or if she's so popular, Sakurai wouldn't also care, he didn't care for Dark Samus and Chrom. Remember when Chrom was supposed to be an Ike clone?

Impa though? Eh, that one's iffy but I imagine it can still work if they use specifically OoT Impa. Any other Impa just wouldn't work, though.

 

[Tankman from Newgrounds]

Fan demand =/= Not being an Echo?

Dixie is an easy conversion from Diddy Kong's model and could've definitely been an Echo if given the opportunity. I've been saying it for years and I was also right that everyone on Dixie's side is unnecessarily hostile about that truth. Impa though? Eh, that one's iffy but I imagine it can still work if they use specifically OoT Impa. Any other Impa just wouldn't work, though.

I mean, Diddy and Dixie would be mixed as Duo Fighter in Smash 6.

 

[Will]

I mean, Diddy and Dixie would be mixed as Duo Fighter in Smash 6.

You from the future or something?

 

[Tankman from Newgrounds]

You from the future or something?

No, but they can work as Duo Fighters I guess.

Instead of being separate, just mix them and Boom! Diddy and Dixie Duo as Playable Duo!

 

[Will]

No, but they can work as Duo Fighters I guess.

Instead of being separate, just mix them and Boom! Diddy and Dixie Duo as Playable Duo!

Really stirring up Diddy mains by changing his entire playstyle huh? looking at pyra/mythra being jank as **** he'd probably be top tier with a new tag partner so i guess maybe not

 

[Tankman from Newgrounds]

Really stirring up Diddy mains by changing his entire playstyle huh? looking at pyra/mythra being jank as **** he'd probably be top tier with a new tag partner so i guess maybe not

No. I want to make it better.
Duo Characters are not bad, which Ice Climbers are good example.

 

[osby]

Duo characters are good and all but when we will get trio characters?

I want the next Nintendo console to be powerful enough to support 24 Smash characters on the same screen.

 

[Tankman from Newgrounds]

Duo characters are good and all but when we will get trio characters?

I want the next Nintendo console to be powerful enough to support 24 characters onscreen.

Oh my God! This is a great idea, Osby!

But I also don't know when will we get Trio characters, maybe in Smash 6 in form of Goomba Tower I guess...

 

[Gengar84]

Oh my God! This is a great idea, Osby!

But I also don't know when will we get Trio characters, maybe in Smash 6 in form of Goomba Tower I guess...

I’ll take any form of Goomba in Smash. I’ve always loved those little things. Whether that’s a basic Goomba, Goombella, or Dr. Goomba Tower, I’m down.

 

[Tankman from Newgrounds]

I’ll take any form of Goomba in Smash. I’ve always loved those little things. Whether that’s a basic Goomba, Goombella, or Dr. Goomba Tower, I’m down.

Yeah, that would be cool.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Fan demand =/= Not being an Echo?

Dixie is an easy conversion from Diddy Kong's model and could've definitely been an Echo if given the opportunity. Swap the skeleton, give her the DK Twirl with her hair as an up special, that's a whole character right there. I've been saying it for years and I was also right that everyone on Dixie's side is unnecessarily hostile about that truth. I don't care if she's such a unique character or if she's so popular, Sakurai wouldn't also care, he didn't care for Dark Samus and Chrom. Remember when Chrom was supposed to be an Ike clone?

Impa though? Eh, that one's iffy but I imagine it can still work if they use specifically OoT Impa. Any other Impa just wouldn't work, though.

Dixie doesn't use the moves Diddy does, Smash especially took care of the roll attacks being rightly implemented, and Dixie was never much of the acrobatics and brawn like the other Kongs. Physical attacks are mostly done by her hair, even Tiny Kong in DK64 followed that example. Dixie wouldn't be a Echo at all therefore. She would need a Up B that's different from what DK does with Spinning Kong too, it wouldn't let her fall in free fall that quickly. Also, Dixie's model isn't like Diddy's, she lacks a tail, and her hair grab would need its own hitbox. They didn't make Isabelle a Villager Echo because the models didn't match, so why would they with Dixie?

And if she'd be a Echo, why would they opt for Dark Samus instead of her ? Dark Samus didn't make an appearance for many years, is canonically dead, won't ever return to the franchise, whilst Dixie had a very popular returning role in Tropical Freeze. So logically speaking, Dixie would've been picked as Echo then before Dark Samus. She also had way more fan support.

It isn't unnecessarily being hostile, it's just plain ignorant to assume Dixie would be a Echo. It would strip her of all her unique qualities. Not even Dr.Mario is considered an Echo. Dixie would need statistics different from Diddy too, as their mechanics where drastically different in DKC2.

I swear this argument takes me back to the pre-Brawl days where people argued Diddy would be a DK clone. It's almost in the same league here to me.

Impa also shouldn't be a Echo of course.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I doubt Dixie or Impa would've been Echoes.

I think Dixie very well could have been an Echo of Diddy.

I think Impa MIGHT have been an Echo of Shiek if she was added back in Smash 4. But her incarnations in both Hyrule Warriors games has been so well received since then that I'd be surprised if they still went the Echo route with her now.

I mean, Diddy and Dixie would be mixed as Duo Fighter in Smash 6.

Ugh, no please. People need to stop suggesting they do the Ice Climbers thing again. Ice Climbers suck.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

I think Dixie very well could have been an Echo of Diddy.

I think Impa MIGHT have been an Echo of Shiek if she was added back in Smash 4. But her incarnations in both Hyrule Warriors games has been so well received since then that I'd be surprised if they still went the Echo route with her now.

Ugh, no please. People need to stop suggesting they do the Ice Climbers thing again. Ice Climbers suck.

Having Warriors Impa would be sick, but I honestly doubt they would rep a character based on a spin off appearances. But hey, if we could have Hyrule warriors Ganondorf too, I'd be 100% for it.

Duo characters are good and all but when we will get trio characters?

I want the next Nintendo console to be powerful enough to support 24 Smash characters on the same screen.

I've been supporting trio characters for years now!

 

[Gengar84]

I think Dixie very well could have been an Echo of Diddy.

I think Impa MIGHT have been an Echo of Shiek if she was added back in Smash 4. But her incarnations in both Hyrule Warriors games has been so well received since then that I'd be surprised if they still went the Echo route with her now.

Ugh, no please. People need to stop suggesting they do the Ice Climbers thing again. Ice Climbers suck.

Diddy and Dixie wouldn’t really be like the Ice Climbers. They would be a lot closer to a traditional transform mechanic where you only control one at a time but both would be visible on screen. The only difference is that you could have a special where you can pick up and throw the inactive Kong. The same can be applied to Dixie and Kiddy if they went that route.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Am not sure what to think of the Diddy and Dixie tag mechanic , but am always keeping in mind that if could happen with a next Smash. This is why am always really looking forward to the Diddy confirmation in every Smash. Well, moreso with 4, cause Ultimate had Everyone There after all.

If implemented well, it would at least be fun. But I really like the very technical and precise move set Diddy has now. It's very rewarding if you're good with the character, Tweek the most famous and best Diddy top player in Ultimate , also states Diddy is the absolute most technical character in the game. I'd sorely miss the play style, but again, it would be like learning a total new character which is always fun.

I doubt it's gonna happen however.

 

[Staarih]

They're not going to add Dixie to Diddy's kit at this point anymore, it wouldn't go down well with all those accustomed to Diddy's current moveset which has more or less remained similar from the beginning.

I personally could very well see Dixie as an Echo (and would take that if it's the only way to get her in), but I do see the merit of her being unique too.

 

[SPEN18]

While it's true Dixie could use Diddy's model as a base or as a starting point and could also share several moves, I don't think an Echo would be a satisfactory representation of the character. This situation seems like that of Isabelle where the idea of her being an Echo is appealing to those who want other characters since it would remove her from the pool of candidates for unique PC slots. It makes even less sense to wedge her into an Echo role if you're okay with, say, Wolf being how he is.

For Impa, the Ocarina of Time appearance makes sense enough but some sort of composite or brand new design would also be good.

With Krystal, let's see what, if anything, happens with Star Fox going forward. As of right now she's behind Isaac, Waluigi, Dee and a few others perhaps in the popularity queue but any of those characters getting in and/or a new SF could push her further towards the front. If a new Star Fox were to break new ground in the story, the relationship between Fox and Krystal would probably be one of the more likely plot elements, especially if they were to ride with the Krystal x Star Wolf stuff.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

If Dark Samus can be Samus’ echo, there’s really no sensible argument about them not doing Dixie as Diddy’s. If anything, a Dixie echo for Diddy would make more sense than a Dark Samus Samus one. Literally just give her a different up b , final smash, and a dash attack and she’s good to go. Heck, she even holds barrels the same as Diddy in tropical freeze so you don’t need to do jack with her grabs.

Can you say you don’t want a Dixie echo and would prefer her as a unique rep? Sure, knock yourself out. I could care less. But don’t give nonsensical replies about how she can’t be an echo.

 

[Idon]

I don't think an Echo would be a satisfactory representation of the character

Which I can say about every echo in the game already...

Well besides Richter, he, Simon, and the rest of the Belmonts share a lot of moves.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Which I can say about every echo in the game already...

Well besides Richter, he, Simon, and the rest of the Belmonts share a lot of moves.

What about Ken then?

 

[Idon]

What about Ken then?

Oh, and him of course, though he's really an echo in name only.

 

[Geno Boost]

Who do you guys see as the most likely echo fighters for the next game?

 

[Idon]

Who do you guys see as the most likely echo fighters for the next game?

No one.
I'll bet they're not returning.

 

[Geno Boost]

No one.
I'll bet they're not returning.

Every smash game had their clone or echoes we are bound to get something as in last minute addition to the development

 

[Ivander]

Who do you guys see as the most likely echo fighters for the next game?

I don't think we'll know until then. I mean, we were all saying Shadow was very likely to be an Echo Fighter and that didn't happen.

As for returning ones, they all seem pretty likely since they hardly take any time at all, although Ken depends on Ryu while Richter could either be made the main Belmont or comes back alongside Simon.

 

[Geno Boost]

I would like to main Shadow just like I did in smash Crusade but if he ends up just being Sonic echo with that lame moveset I am just not gonna use him.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

I don't think we'll know until then. I mean, we were all saying Shadow was very likely to be an Echo Fighter and that didn't happen.

As for returning ones, they all seem pretty likely since they hardly take any time at all, although Ken depends on Ryu while Richter could either be made the main Belmont or comes back alongside Simon.

I really don't see why they would put Richter as the main Castlevania rep. He was always way more obscure than Simon.

 

[Idon]

Every smash game had their clone or echoes we are bound to get something as in last minute addition to the development

Right, but they'll be at least somewhat unique like the Melee and Brawl clones are.
The echo indicator has to reason to exist if there are less characters and more reason to differentiate already existing ones.

 

[Ivander]

I really don't see why they would put Richter as the main Castlevania rep. He was always way more obscure than Simon.

No, Richter is probably the most popular Belmont. Anybody who's played Symphony of the Night, one of the most popular Castlevania games, knows who Richter is. Rondo of Blood also got a remake for the PSP that also had Symphony of the Night packaged alongside it. And it also helps that the next part of the Castlevania Netflix series is featuring Richter.

Simon is well known, but mostly because he is the "first" Belmont, especially among older Nintendo fans where he was the Belmont from the first Castlevania, Simon's Quest and Super Castlevania IV, and has also been quite a part of crossovers, like Captain N, Castlevania Judgment, etc. But among Castlevania fans, Richter is probably the most popular and well known Belmont with how popular Symphony of the Night is.

Edit: Also the other reason Richter is popular...."DIE MONSTER! YOU DON'T BELONG IN THIS WORLD!" Seriously, that intro gets quoted so much.

 

[SPEN18]

If Dark Samus can be Samus’ echo, there’s really no sensible argument about them not doing Dixie as Diddy’s. If anything, a Dixie echo for Diddy would make more sense than a Dark Samus Samus one. Literally just give her a different up b , final smash, and a dash attack and she’s good to go. Heck, she even holds barrels the same as Diddy in tropical freeze so you don’t need to do jack with her grabs.

Can you say you don’t want a Dixie echo and would prefer her as a unique rep? Sure, knock yourself out. I could care less. But don’t give nonsensical replies about how she can’t be an echo.

You say it like it's obvious who can/would be made an Echo but it's already proven to be quite an inexact science. Dark Samus became an Echo when many said she couldn't, Isabelle was said not to be Echoable when many thought she was, and the book's not even closed yet on others like Shadow. In Dark Samus's case, I think many who would've said she couldn't be an Echo didn't anticipate the extent to which they'd implement the Phazon animations and such; I still think it's not entirely appropriate for Dark Samus to be an Echo but that last point is separate from my opinion on the matter. A lot of who is Echoable depends on Sakurai or whoever is making the roster, and also on whether the character would have enough priority as a nonclone to make the roster; it has proven not to be entirely predictable so far.

Cloning is a convenient dev tool to pad the roster, but with the roster size we're at now it's not even strictly necessary. Not that there shouldn't be any clones at all in the cases where the character is still accurately represented, but we're past the point IMO where major inaccuracies in representation should be accepted in favor of raw PC count.