Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Speed Weed]

What does everyone prioritize when choosing a most wanted character for Smash?

1) You really like the game or series the character comes from even if the character themselves isn’t your absolute favorite from that series. It would just be cool to see the game represented. For me, I’ll go with Bill Rizer and Lance Bean from Contra. Bill and Lance are still really cool characters but my primary reason for wanting them is that I grew up playing Contra on the NES and SNES. I really enjoyed those games as a kid and it would be great to relive that experience through Smash.

2) You really like the personality or story of a particular character. Basically, you just really connected with the character themselves in some way even if the game they came from isn’t your absolute favorite. Some examples for me here are Vi and Shionne. Vi is just a really badass character with a great story in Arcane and I really loved Shionne’s character growth in Tales of Arise.

3) You really like the visual design or moveset potential of the character. One example for me here is Raziel from Soul Reaver. I’ve always really loved his design and he has a unique gimmick of life loss and life gain that could make for an awesome Smash character. Playing as a blue skinned vampire wraith that gains power by absorbing souls is just so unique and cool for Smash. Legacy of Kain is really cool but I was never able to get very far in the games.

4) You really like other aspects of what the character could bring to Smash. Whether you love the soundtrack from their game, think that the game has a perfect setting for a stage, or something else. Getting a character would be the easiest way to get many of these along with them. For this, I’ll go with H’aanit from Octopath Traveller. I really like H’aanit as a character but I’d be happy with almost any Octopath character. Those games have such amazing soundtracks and cool, unique visual design, I’d love to see it get some kind of content.

5) Something else that I didn’t mention above. Whether you feel the franchise is too iconic or impactful to leave off the roster or the character has a lot of fan support and you want to please as many people as possible with their inclusion.

I shall refer to an older post of mine

Are they a SEGA character

Spoiler: Yes

They should be in

Spoiler: No

Are they a Capcom character

Spoiler: Yes

They should be in

Spoiler: No

Are they an old arcade game character

Spoiler: Yes

They should be in

Spoiler: No

**** off

 

[CommanderZaktan]

I have a stage idea. The Oregon Trail. The fighters fight on top of the wagon and oxen as they travel through the fields, towns, and rivers. The stage scrolls slow like in Pac-man, but the wagon stays in the middle. In towns, they have some platforms. In the rivers, if the player is in the river on the back of thew wagon, they'll most likely enter the blast zone and get ko'ed.

 

[Noipoi]

I have a stage idea. The Oregon Trail. The fighters fight on top of the wagon and oxen as they travel through the fields, towns, and rivers. The stage scrolls slow like in Pac-man, but the wagon stays in the middle. In towns, they have some platforms. In the rivers, if the player is in the river on the back of thew wagon, they'll most likely enter the blast zone and get ko'ed.

And every fighter gets a dysentery meter

 

[fogbadge]

I have a stage idea. The Oregon Trail. The fighters fight on top of the wagon and oxen as they travel through the fields, towns, and rivers. The stage scrolls slow like in Pac-man, but the wagon stays in the middle. In towns, they have some platforms. In the rivers, if the player is in the river on the back of thew wagon, they'll most likely enter the blast zone and get ko'ed.

isn't that of book origin?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

isn't that of book origin?

Fog.

The Oregon Trail is a real world trail that allowed Americans to colonize the Western United States.

It's not based on a book. It's based on history.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Fog.

The Oregon Trail is a real world trail that allowed Americans to colonize the Western United States.

It's not based on a book. It's based on history.

In other words it's based on history books :V

 

[Brindor]

Cooking Mama bros...is it our time?

 

[ninjahmos]

If Scorpion ever gets into Smash, I'm kind of hoping his design will be based on Mortal Kombat II, but in a more modernized way. Also, they should make his mask look more skull-like.

 

[Gengar84]

If Scorpion ever gets into Smash, I'm kind of hoping his design will be based on Mortal Kombat II, but in a more modernized way. Also, they should make his mask look more skull-like.

I personally want the designs to be based on Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3. I think that game basically had the perfect designs for a lot of characters, particularly the ninja clones.

 

[ninjahmos]

They could also give Scorpion a remix of The Pit if he ever gets revealed.

 

[fogbadge]

Fog.

The Oregon Trail is a real world trail that allowed Americans to colonize the Western United States.

It's not based on a book. It's based on history.

that doesn't mean the game couldn't have been based on the book with the same name. besides is real life history even allowed in smash? besides nintendo's toys and cards

 

[SharkLord]

What does everyone prioritize when choosing a most wanted character for Smash?

1) You really like the game or series the character comes from even if the character themselves isn’t your absolute favorite from that series. It would just be cool to see the game represented. For me, I’ll go with Bill Rizer and Lance Bean from Contra. Bill and Lance are still really cool characters but my primary reason for wanting them is that I grew up playing Contra on the NES and SNES. I really enjoyed those games as a kid and it would be great to relive that experience through Smash.

2) You really like the personality or story of a particular character. Basically, you just really connected with the character themselves in some way even if the game they came from isn’t your absolute favorite. Some examples for me here are Vi and Shionne. Vi is just a really badass character with a great story in Arcane and I really loved Shionne’s character growth in Tales of Arise.

3) You really like the visual design or moveset potential of the character. One example for me here is Raziel from Soul Reaver. I’ve always really loved his design and he has a unique gimmick of life loss and life gain that could make for an awesome Smash character. Playing as a blue skinned vampire wraith that gains power by absorbing souls is just so unique and cool for Smash. Legacy of Kain is really cool but I was never able to get very far in the games.

4) You really like other aspects of what the character could bring to Smash. Whether you love the soundtrack from their game, think that the game has a perfect setting for a stage, or something else. Getting a character would be the easiest way to get many of these along with them. For this, I’ll go with H’aanit from Octopath Traveller. I really like H’aanit as a character but I’d be happy with almost any Octopath character. Those games have such amazing soundtracks and cool, unique visual design, I’d love to see it get some kind of content.

5) Something else that I didn’t mention above. Whether you feel the franchise is too iconic or impactful to leave off the roster or the character has a lot of fan support and you want to please as many people as possible with their inclusion.

Mostly 1, a bit of 2 if the character already has representation. I like Ys, so I want Adol from Ys. I like Monster Hunter, so I want the titular Monster Hunter. I like Hi-Fi Rush, so I want Chai from Hi-Fi Rush. I like Touhou, so I want Reimu from Touhou.

Only real standout among my wants is Bandana Dee; I like Kirby, but we already have Kirby. We could do with some more Kirby, though, so I support Bandana Dee. I also support Bandana Dee simply because I like Bandana Dee

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

And only 3 of those characters were newcomers! WTF even is that example? You're disproving your own point.

Are we seriously gonna make a big fuss over how Tekken 8's launch lineup has 3 newcomers instead of the usual 5 or 6?

It's really not that much of a difference. It's lower but nowhere near your idea of "let's only do a third of the usual amount of newcomers in the next Smash because DLC, baby"

But really, think about it this way; if the next Smash rips the band-aid off by saying "yeah, not everyone's gonna come back" and then proceed to also give us such a low amount of newcomers that we can count them in one hand, this is going to be a marketing disaster.

The only ways I can see us have a minimal amount of new faces is either the returning cast gets substantial enough reworks to take away time that'd be spent on said newcomers or Everyone is Here! happens again, but I think the latter is too much of a legal headache for Sakurai to commit to it.

 

[SharkLord]

I mean they were trying to bring a lot of classic stages back, so at some level I can understand it.

But on the other hand, when you look at the Mario stages they had available to bring back...

View attachment 388791

I think I would have preferred some new stages from other franchises instead.

Honestly I kinda hope they wipe the slate clean for the stage selection. We've got so many Grassy Level 1 stages, even from the same series. We do not need the umpteenth grassy Mario stage. We do not need Windy Hill and Green Hill at the same time.

On that note, I can also do without travelling stages. Those just feel week to me; There's too many layouts, so none of them really stick in your memory. Just get one layout and stick with it.

Also also, I Do Not Care For Retro Stages. Maybe it's because I'm a baby as far as gamers go and I don't have a ton of 8-bit nostalgia, but they just don't do anything for me. Make your own dang stage in your own dang style.

...Actually yeah I have a lot of gripes with Ultimate's stage selection now that I realize it

 

[Deleted member]

The reason we got so few newcomers in Ultimate's base game was BECAUSE of Everyone Is Here!, and bringing back older veterans likely ate away at the time they would usually take for more newcomers.

For the next game, there's no reason for them to stray away from the usual ~15 we've had in every game before... other than just not wanting a lot of newcomers.

I feel like 15 or more newcomers base is just not going to happen on this day and age, i feel like they'll priorize bring back veterans over having a large newcomer roster.
Im expecting more newcomers (not counting echoes) than base Ultimate, which had 6 non-echo newcomers, but i doubt it will reach Brawl or 4 numbers base game, like no way.
So i'm expecting like 9 newcomers base game next game (semi-clone and uniques, not couting echoes), Sakurai will want to reduce cuts to a minimum, so i can't imagine him going overboard with them.
Like can you imagine the drama if they cut Palutena, Ike or Bowser Jr but they add characters like Raven Beak, Sidon, Twintelle, DJ Octavio, Malogor, Oatchi or Takamaru as newcomers? Yeah...i just think they'll focus on the few obvious picks like Waluigi, Tom Nook, Octolings, Noah, Alear, Meowscarada, Ring Fit Trainee and that's kinda it.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I feel like 15 or more newcomers base is just not going to happen on this day and age, i feel like they'll priorize bring back veterans over having a large newcomer roster.
Im expecting more newcomers (not counting echoes) than base Ultimate, which had 6 non-echo newcomers, but i doubt it will reach Brawl or 4 numbers base game, like no way.
So i'm expecting like 9 newcomers base game next game (semi-clone and uniques, not couting echoes), Sakurai will want to reduce cuts to a minimum, so i can't imagine him going overboard with them.
Like can you imagine the drama if they cut Palutena, Ike or Bowser Jr but they add characters like Raven Beak, Sidon, Twintelle, DJ Octavio, Malogor, Oatchi or Takamaru as newcomers? Yeah...i just think they'll focus on the few obvious picks like Waluigi, Tom Nook, Octolings, Noah, Alear, Meowscarada, Ring Fit Trainee and that's kinda it.

How many times are you going to have to be told that newcomers ARE a huge part of Smash marketing? Even SSBU didn't stray from that.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

How many times are you going to have to be told that newcomers ARE a huge part of Smash marketing? Even SSBU didn't stray from that.

It's almost as if the crossover fighting game is focusing its marketing on what kind of crossovers it does.

.....nah, that doesn't make sense

 

[Louie G.]

Like can you imagine the drama if they cut Palutena, Ike or Bowser Jr but they add characters like Raven Beak, Sidon, Twintelle, DJ Octavio, Malogor, Oatchi or Takamaru as newcomers?

This happens in like, every other fighting game series. It would suck to lose any of these characters but we have to be prepared for it and realize it’s not a personal matter of “X got in over Y” and rather new was prioritized over old. Smash has pampered us up to this point.

But it probably wouldn’t be these characters unless the cuts run deep anyway. A more honest survey of this would be we would cut someone like Corrin or Piranha Plant... theoretically low priority characters. You named popular and prominent characters who are probably intended to stick around and only gonna miss the boat if we run out of time.

But even still, the next Smash has to come out swinging with exciting new ideas over anything else. Otherwise you may as well stick with Ultimate, which is bound to still be playable on the new console.

 

[SpecterFlower]

if there's a ever a singular genshin charcter in smash rather than the transforming mechanic.

i want it to be arlechinno, she has a very unique weapon and abilities with her scythe and the weird unexplained red moon thing she can do, as well as much more move-set potential to draw from.

as well as her bond of life mechanic. which would be tough to add to smash but it would be cool to see a character with hp manipulation.

she could have a 2nd comeback mechanic form as well with her boss appearance.
her threads could also work similar to steves blocks but not as awful considering how she jumps between them and uses them to move around in her boss fight.

shes a fan favourite who has been hyped for years and if the next roster was decided in 2023 or now she would be a shoe in if they went for a genshin character

she has by far the most to pull from and is a permanently relevant character ingame due to her status as a harbinger (the main... anti heroes of the game??)

that and her design is peak. that and this

Spoiler

this is so peak, easily genshin best character since, a couple months ago.

 

[Deleted member]

How many times are you going to have to be told that newcomers ARE a huge part of Smash marketing? Even SSBU didn't stray from that.

7-8 newcomers would still market the game, so that reason doesn't even apply, you have to realize that smash climate has changed since the Brawl and Smash 4 days, what other fighting games do is irrelevant, Smash is diferent than them.
A 15 unique newcomer batch like Brawl and Smash 4 would definitely be interesting next game, but as i said i don't see it happening, speically in not today's cut drama climate.

 

[Guynamednelson]

what other fighting games do is irrelevant, Smash is diferent than them

By that logic, Smash should keep at it with its 15 unique newcomers per base game. That's much larger than what your average fighting game sequel does.

 

[KneeOfJustice99]

counterpoint to all of this;
it'd be really funny if they cut absolutely everyone except the only returning character in smash 6 was luigi

 

[CannonStreak]

counterpoint to all of this;
it'd be really funny if they cut absolutely everyone except the only returning character in smash 6 was luigi

Yeah...

Luigi is going to feel lonely and cowardly when he has to deal with all those newcomers!

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

counterpoint to all of this;
it'd be really funny if they cut absolutely everyone except the only returning character in smash 6 was luigi

When you're right, you're right. That would be funny.

 

[ScrubReborn]

counterpoint to all of this;
it'd be really funny if they cut absolutely everyone except the only returning character in smash 6 was luigi

Counter-counterpoint; it'd be more funny if it was Sandbag.

 

[StrangeKitten]

Video about the whole DK game thing. This goes over pretty much everything I heard when I researched it some time ago. Definitely a development hell situation. I still hold out a lot of hope that Nintendo wants to make DK a flagship series again - it just hasn't gone well/Retro is still busy with Metroid Prime 4.

 

[SpecterFlower]

Video about the whole DK game thing. This goes over pretty much everything I heard when I researched it some time ago. Definitely a development hell situation. I still hold out a lot of hope that Nintendo wants to make DK a flagship series again - it just hasn't gone well/Retro is still busy with Metroid Prime 4.

i really doubt retro will ever touch dk again, it seems like nintendo wants to make it internal

 

[Noipoi]

counterpoint to all of this;
it'd be really funny if they cut absolutely everyone except the only returning character in smash 6 was luigi

Year of Luigi 2, *******!

 

[HyperSomari64]

i really doubt retro will ever touch dk again, it seems like nintendo wants to make it internal

If they will do another in-house DK game, maybe we should say goodbye to the Kong family, as Nintendo creates new and original apes (do not steal)
(Jungle Beat reference)

 

[CannonStreak]

If they will do another in-house DK game, maybe we should say goodbye to the Kong family, and create new and original apes (do not steal)
(Jungle Beat reference)

Speaking of Jungle Beat, I wonder if it would be okay to bring the ape bossed from that game into future Donkey Kong games?

 

[Deleted member]

By that logic, Smash should keep at it with its 15 unique newcomers per base game. That's much larger than what your average fighting game sequel does.

Why do you think 15 newcomers is likely anyways, theres nothing indicating that it will happen because a post-ultimate world is diferent than back in the day.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Why do you think 15 newcomers is likely anyways, theres nothing indicating that it will happen because a post-ultimate world is diferent than back in the day.

There's also nothing indicating it won't happen.

 

[Gorgonzales]

If they will do another in-house DK game, maybe we should say goodbye to the Kong family, as Nintendo creates new and original apes (do not steal)
(Jungle Beat reference)

Ehh, I think Diddy, Cranky, and some Animal Buddies are safe at the very least. Times were different when Jungle Beat released, I think Nintendo has warmed up to the idea that they can continue where Rare left off instead of trying to do everything from scratch.

Speaking of Jungle Beat, I wonder if it would be okay to bring the ape bossed from that game into future Donkey Kong games?

I can take or leave the four evil Kongs (if I had to pick one it'd be Sumo since no other Kong really has a physique like his), but Cactus/Ghastly King's design is raw as hell and I would love to see him again.

 

[HyperSomari64]

Ehh, I think Diddy, Cranky, and some Animal Buddies are safe at the very least. Times were different when Jungle Beat released, I think Nintendo has warmed up to the idea that they can continue where Rare left off instead of trying to do everything from scratch.


I can take or leave the four evil Kongs (if I had to pick one it'd be Sumo since no other Kong really has a physique like his), but Cactus/Ghastly King's design is raw as hell and I would love to see him again.

If Missions return to Mario Kart, he can one of the bosses.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

that doesn't mean the game couldn't have been based on the book with the same name. besides is real life history even allowed in smash? besides nintendo's toys and cards

Wikipedia isn't the best source, but the game's page doesn't mention the book so it's probably not based on it.

As far as history goes...I don't see why not? Other forms of media aren't used due to Super Smash Bros.'s scope, and how difficult it is to license them. The Oregon Trail is based off of a real life event, which means there's no licensing involved on that front, so all we'd have to worry about is scope. In that sense I'd say it is within the games scope, as The Oregon Trail is pretty much the most well known edutainment game ever, easily making it worthy of inclusion in my eyes. I'd say giving it a stage would be entirely reasonable.

On that note, I can also do without travelling stages. Those just feel week to me; There's too many layouts, so none of them really stick in your memory. Just get one layout and stick with it.

This might just be a me thing, but I have no trouble remembering quite a lot of travel stages. Off the top of my head, Paper Mario has the windmill and the stupid strong wind, the boat, and that awful Bowser's Castle section. 3D World is a fairly standard Mario level that then goes through a canyon that tilts random platforms, then down a mountain, then across the ocean while skewers destroy the stage. Castle Siege has the good part, then the big open area with the statues, and then the tilting Final Destination area.

Honestly I think the problem with some of them is less notoriety and more just weak layouts, which they can get away with somewhat because they keep going to other places. For example, Garreg Mach Monastery would be extremely boring without the traveling mechanic changing the background all the time and pushing players closer together periodically.

 

[DarthEnderX]

It's really not that much of a difference. It's lower but nowhere near your idea of "let's only do a third of the usual amount of newcomers in the next Smash because DLC, baby"

It's half!

Im expecting more newcomers (not counting echoes) than base Ultimate, which had 6 non-echo newcomers, but i doubt it will reach Brawl or 4 numbers base game, like no way.
So i'm expecting like 9 newcomers base game next game (semi-clone and uniques, not couting echoes)

Thank you for the clarification.

Why do you think 15 newcomers is likely anyways, theres nothing indicating that it will happen because a post-ultimate world is diferent than back in the day.

This. We live in a post-Fighters Pass world now.

Nintendo isn't going to give us 15 newcomers in base game, because they want to charge us extra for half of them.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

It's half!

So you will choose to make a big fuss about it. Got it.

 

[DarthEnderX]

So you will choose to make a big fuss about it. Got it.

You've typed about 3 times as many words about it as me. Doesn't that mean you're the one making the fuss?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Something to also keep in mind for Ultimate;

• There was zero planned DLC at all until 2017, when it was greenlit.
• We had 11 newcomers intended at the time(with a few being very easy to make echoes, but that's still only 4), along with many veterans who to be made from scratch who weren't much different from a newcomer in terms of work done. For every Echo, we had a vet too, meaning the workload wasn't really made any easier than if we had none of the Echoes except Dark Pit and Lucina's return.
• PP is the first DLC planned. Later we had 5 more planned. The exact timing of when both were planned is not entirely clear, but we do know negotiations ended a bit before the game would release. Which is why the characters were specifically released in that order. This suggests that the plans didn't actually finish till 2018, and that it's more that outside of PP and maybe Joker, it was a long continuous plan being made.
  • Steve was in talks for a much longer time, 5 years. Sakurai noted that he could've gotten maybe 2 more characters(before another Pass was greenlit), and it was likely Steve for one of them. The other one could've been just about anyone except Sora. Sephiroth may have been one of the other two, or Min Min. That said, Sephiroth being brought in to give more FFVII content as part of it could be a reason he was planned a bit earlier.
• Besides that, the other 3 characters were not in plans till far later. That means, at most, only 7-8 DLC were planned at all(starting in 2017). And it was just 1 or 2 at first, with more figured out later. Then we have Sora, a very late plan. In other words, they didn't plan 2 Passes out of the gate, meaning the DLC model was constantly more on the last minute selection.

The general point is that they don't design DLC at the beginning of development to exist. It was never that way with Smash. It wasn't that way in Ultimate, nor Smash 4(Mewtwo would be best seen as a specialized content, and they only added a way to get it in a unique fashion to encourage players to connect. Not all would get both versions, either. It was also one way to attempt to make the Wii U version sell better, as the Wii U itself did rather poorly overall. Basically they tried a strategy that hopefully would help business but also encourage things they want among players).

Yes, this also means that the only DLC planned was always less than the total newcomers in Smash Ultimate, even ignoring the Echoes. The DLC model suggested does not actually coincide with Smash's design at all.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

(Mewtwo would be best seen as a specialized content, and they only added a way to get it in a unique fashion to encourage players to connect. Not all would get both versions, either. It was also one way to attempt to make the Wii U version sell better, as the Wii U itself did rather poorly overall. Basically they tried a strategy that hopefully would help business but also encourage things they want among players).

Not gonna lie, one of the earliest things I did in this website is exactly that; seek out someone who'd get the 3DS version but wouldn't get the Wii U one so we could both have a free Mewtwo.