Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[SpecterFlower]

modern kirby representation is so funny when you actually look at whats there.

1 remix
2 final smash's
3 alts

thats it.

everything else is from 4 games.
Super star
Air ride
Dream land
Adventure

idrc if sakurai is biased or not, i just want kirby to have real representation that isnt just kirby superstar.

Kirby air ride has more representation than every other game that came out after it combined.

 

[HyperSomari64]

I saw KingofPhantoms talking about Scrooge McDuck, what about the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles? (another cartoon that got beloved games on the NES)
But let's change of topic

 

[CannonStreak]

Sonic and Snake would've made it into Melee if there was enough time. 3rd party video game characters were already a fine idea after Smash 64. It just was impossible at the time. No floodgates were open to begin with.

Sheik was added before Zelda was to Melee overall. She didn't start "anything" and is an outlier(she also is a main character in that game, which is one of the biggest Zelda games in existence. It's still beholden to that. On the other hand, ALTTP, the other massive game, still can't even get its main villain a cameo in Smash. There's nothing to really put into this kind of logic here, as it means nothing). Dr. Mario was in mainly because he was a clone option. Spin-offs weren't given some special treatment there. Also, keep in mind that only Mario Kart even got something via its own music section(due to necessity) and its own stages. We don't generally get spin-off content for the most part, with very little when it comes to Spirits or other similar cases even then. Like, Tingle's specific game content is not that much. Hell, Sonic is one of the few third parties to get lots of spin-off content with Stickers, etc., but even then, those spin-offs are part of the normal game continuity, something that doesn't work with other franchises. Zelda's spin-offs are at best their own thing, with at most Link's Crossbow Training maybe having no issues with potential canonicity(since it doesn't contradict or do anything odd. It's just a silly game at best).

If we got another one-off, it'd be because they're part of the main trio. Which is the only reason why Sheik made sense. She is freaking Zelda. Also, keep in mind, we were likewise intended to get Toon Zelda before, but also a Smash OC in Toon Sheik(and even if that became Tetra later on, her appearances were a one and done game too). Clearly being one-off itself wasn't that important. It's just they weren't the main Triforce trio, which has proven to be a lot more important than anything else by now when it comes to being playable. Even in cases where the Triforce doesn't exist within a game, it doesn't change that that version of Zelda, Link, Ganon, or Ganondorf are looked at.

Besides? Nothing has stopped Sakurai from adding a spin-off character in some form(again, more or less). He simply hasn't. There could be many reasons. Lack of importance, licensing being more difficult as an option, a focus on different contexts, etc.

Enough time? I mean, if I recall correctly, wasn’t it because of data constraints in Snake’s case. Time constraints were in Sonic’s case, though.

 

[Quillion]

modern kirby representation is so funny when you actually look at whats there.

1 remix
2 final smash's
3 alts

thats it.

everything else is from 4 games.
Super star
Air ride
Dream land
Adventure

idrc if sakurai is biased or not, i just want kirby to have real representation that isnt just kirby superstar.

Kirby air ride has more representation than every other game that came out after it combined.

Whether or not you agree with it, the common argument is that it took Forgotten Land to get out of the shadow of what Sakurai set down for Kirby.

And personally, I found that Forgotten Land made a lot of sacrifices in the 3D transition (at least at this time).

 

[smashkirby]

If I had to guess, the main ones I’d feel confident in would probably be Corrin and maybe Bowser Jr. Corrin was a divisive character from the start. Bowser Jr. was low priority in For, but I could see the devs deciding to keep him as the car was a unique moveset, and the Koopalings were a nice set of alts.

Out of curiosity, what’s everyone’s stance on a “surprise” newcomer (i.e. Mr. Game & Watch, R.O.B., Duck Hunt, and Piranha Plant so far) for the next game?

Like some have said, part of the hook of a 'surprise' character in Smash is that they're... well, a surprise. So, I don't have a solid prediction regarding who/what we'll get, but I'll say this much.

I really hope said 'surprise' is more in the vein of Mr. G&W, R.O.B., and Duck Hunt rather than another mook like the Plant (although I'm not HEAVILY opposed to such a thing). As someone who's fine with just about anyone from Nintendo's catalogue, be they obscure or otherwise, I've got a pretty wide pool of folks to choose from as it is.

really rules how smash bros got to actually feel like a crossover game once, then never again because sakurai was upset that cutscenes got leaked or whatever https://t.co/MjZWkoaSi3

— H20 (@rad_dude124) April 18, 2024

Ya know, thinking about it, I feel like World of Light would have been greatly bolstered by including "support conversations". Just little visual novel style cutscenes between characters where they talk about what's going on, heartfelt conversations between characters that would relate, and really, really silly interactions.

Some quick ideas:

1. Shulk and Lucina talking about the future.
2. Pit or Isabelle coming to Link with a problem, figuring out the solution, thanking him, and leaving, all without letting him say a single word.
3. Bowser and King Dedede being pissed about getting possessed again.
4. Corrin and Mega Man lamenting about having to fight, and then Inkling and Pokémon Trainer come in being like "wow that was a great match. Battling sure is fun!". EDIT: Ryu and Ken could deliver this punchline as well.

This just remembered about the Project x Zone games, the second one was pretty decent even though i had issues with it like treatment of the female characters and the innuendo jokes which soured the experience to me.
I wonder if theyll ever make a Project x Zone 3.

I was talking about this on Twitter with someone yesterday, but I have to say... I think if Smash ever decides to do another ACTUAL story, perhaps they should do what Namco's "X" games (i.e. Namco x Capcom, the Project x Zone duology) does and have more text-based cutscenes. Maybe even save the ACTUAL cutscenes for important stuff?

In a hypothetical 'dialogue box' story mode this is who, on Ultimate's roster, I'd feel should or shouldn't talk. Small talk for characters who'd talk shorter, less frequent or get straight to the point. What do you guys think?
View attachment 388322

I forgot who brought it up, but I feel like I should mention now that Kirby CAN talk. He's just in a 'silent protagonist' situation where WE don't hear what he says to others. If I'm being honest? I feel like a new Smash Bros. having a text-based story (think of Namco's "X" games) would possibly help some of the "Small talk" and "Keep mute" characters a pretty great deal, so we don't have to deal with the crazy division over hearing some of these folks talk out loud (for some reason).

Still waiting.

Not going to lie, for quite some time I've wanted Sakurai to pull a troll move and add Yuyuki's Goku in Smash as a direct response to the other Goku constantly being asked about.

Would be hilarious as ****.

Don't get me wrong, I would GENUINELY love for Yuyuki's Goku to be a playable character in Smash Bros., no question about that. But if he DOES somehow make it in?

Man, Sakurai had better take that opportunity to absolutely push the legal envelope however he can about this not being THAT Goku joining Smash.
Like, in Yuyuki-Goku's reveal trailer? I want all sorts of vague Dragon Ball-like iconography to show up in said reveal trailer and maybe even have Yuyuki-Goku pull what would basically be the ultimate version of King K. Rool/Banjo and Kazooie's reveal on us, having his flying cloud and Power Pole-like weapon in hand.

ALL of the bonus points would also go to Sakurai and the Smash Bros. dev team, if they can somehow get Masako Nozawa herself in on this bit, and have her not only voice Yuyuki-Goku in Smash, but also say in his reveal trailer: 'Heya! I'm (Son) Goku!'

I've said it before.

It's funny, SonSon III is actually a Capcom character I'd love to see join Smash, so having all 3 as alts of each other would be a dream come true for me!

You know, on the subject of troll and surprise picks. Do you think that, if Sakurai was given the okay and cooperation of a fellow 3rd Party, could he pull a Mr. Game & Watch/Wii Fit Trainer/Piranha Plant with a 3rd Party character? I mean, the most common surprise picks we speculate about are:

• A character who's game does not show them much as a fighter, but Sakurai somehow makes them into a fighter. EG. Wii Fit Trainer, Ayumi Tachibana, etc.
• A Classical character that hasn't seen any new games or a character comprised of various games from NES or older. EG. Mr. Game & Watch, R.O.B., Duck Hunt, etc.
• A very out-there pick that isn't a main character or popular character. EG. Piranha Plant, another Nintendo Mook, etc.

But nobody has speculated the thought of madlad Sakurai somehow getting the okay and cooperation of a 3rd Party company to get in a specific 3rd Party character that nobody was expecting had any chances. Sure, it's an incredibly small chance, but one minute ago, some people were quite adamant that Sora could never get in due to Disney. We tend to get surprised one way or another.

I'm even MORE stumped about this than I am when it comes to Nintendo's own characters... best I can say is that I've got a pretty good deal of SEGA, Capcom, Konami, SNK, and Namco characters that fit this bill that I sadly don't ever see happening in Smash, barring one massive miracle.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Sonic and Snake would've made it into Melee if there was enough time.

Ehh....being asked about too late to be considered =/= more time would have allowed them.

I think we've beaten the dead horse of Melee having more development time enough, but Kojima and Naka would've had to ask about it before the development was in motion.

Don't get me wrong, I would GENUINELY love for Yuyuki's Goku to be a playable character in Smash Bros., no question about that. But if he DOES somehow make it in?

Man, Sakurai had better take that opportunity to absolutely push the legal envelope however he can about this not being THAT Goku joining Smash.
Like, in Yuyuki-Goku's reveal trailer? I want all sorts of vague Dragon Ball-like iconography to show up in said reveal trailer and maybe even have Yuyuki-Goku pull what would basically be the ultimate version of King K. Rool/Banjo and Kazooie's reveal on us, having his flying cloud and Power Pole-like weapon in hand.

ALL of the bonus points would also go to Sakurai and the Smash Bros. dev team, if they can somehow get Masako Nozawa herself in on this bit, and have her not only voice Yuyuki-Goku in Smash, but also say in his reveal trailer: 'Heya! I'm (Son) Goku!'

Would be perfect. Especially if he had an alt palette that gave him black fur with an orange robe with blue trim just to really sell the idea "This is what you asked for, right? "

 

[Wonder Smash]

I mean, would you want a 3rd Party version of Android 21 to compete with Dante, Master Chief, Ryu Hayabusa, etc? I just suggested 1st Party since they would have more of a chance.

Android 21? But she is a video game character.

I was thinking you meant characters that may have been inspired or influenced by non-video game characters. As you said, Metroid was influenced by Alien but there's also Mega Man created from Astro Boy.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Enough time? I mean, if I recall correctly, wasn’t it because of data constraints in Snake’s case. Time constraints were in Sonic’s case, though.

No, it was just "too late into development", which means time is the only other possible factor that could've allowed them.

Ehh....being asked about too late to be considered =/= more time would have allowed them.

I think we've beaten the dead horse of Melee having more development time enough, but Kojima and Naka would've had to ask about it before the development was in motion.

Fair too. If more development time was given, that's something that could be considered even late, but pretty unlikely too, considering more time only allowed for someone who was already planned(like Sonic) or just new clones. DLC wasn't even possible till Brawl(and that game wasn't designed to get DLC anyway).

If the GameCube had DLC capabilities and proper online, who knows what was possible. XD I do wonder, as well, if the game didn't have to be rushed, what else Sakurai could've added in. I know we had some considered characters, but I forget how many would've worked out overall. Lucas was obviously not possible. Wario maybe? Ayumi maybe? I know that the other Retro characters were pretty much dismissed once Ice Climbers was chosen, since they were all considered for a very specific slot. And obviously B&K and James Bond weren't really considered so much as spoken on why they were not possible at that point, so that's a no-go too. Not much could be done, really. XD

 

[CannonStreak]

No, it was just "too late into development", which means time is the only other possible factor that could've allowed them.


Fair too. If more development time was given, that's something that could be considered even late, but pretty unlikely too, considering more time only allowed for someone who was already planned(like Sonic) or just new clones. DLC wasn't even possible till Brawl(and that game wasn't designed to get DLC anyway).

If the GameCube had DLC capabilities and proper online, who knows what was possible. XD I do wonder, as well, if the game didn't have to be rushed, what else Sakurai could've added in. I know we had some considered characters, but I forget how many would've worked out overall. Lucas was obviously not possible. Wario maybe? Ayumi maybe? I know that the other Retro characters were pretty much dismissed once Ice Climbers was chosen, since they were all considered for a very specific slot. And obviously B&K and James Bond weren't really considered so much as spoken on why they were not possible at that point, so that's a no-go too. Not much could be done, really. XD

I see.

But I looked it up and while it said time constraints for Snake, it said it was also possible that legal limitations kept him from getting in, too.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I see.

But I looked it up and while it said time constraints for Snake, it said it was also possible that legal limitations kept him from getting in, too.

He's third party. It's just a normal thing saying that "licensing won't always work out".

Hell, don't forget Sonic had trouble getting into Brawl because Sega said no at first. Which naturally hurt development. So it does happen sometimes. Thankfully they said yes later~

 

[CannonStreak]

He's third party. It's just a normal thing saying that "licensing won't always work out".

Hell, don't forget Sonic had trouble getting into Brawl because Sega said no at first. Which naturally hurt development. So it does happen sometimes. Thankfully they said yes later~

Oh, I remember the case with Sonic, alright! While I was excited he ultimately got in, the trouble to get him in Brawl must have been...unpleasant.

I wonder what other legal limitations might have kept Snake from getting into Melee? It can't be just licensing, right?

 

[cashregister9]

Okay I was kinda joking with my last post

but Hololive does have at least 2 games on the switch, one about Korone and another about Minato Aqua

Kureiji Ollie also just got a game on steam today

I'm not saying Hololive has a better argument for getting into smash than other Fourth Parties, but how many things have the exact type of clout for not only an Among Us Crossover, a Sonic Crossover and a Fate/Grand Order Crossover while also having some music produced by Toby Fox?

EDIT: Also Taku Inoue, has done music for Hololive talents as well

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Oh, I remember the case with Sonic, alright! While I was excited he ultimately got in, the trouble to get him in Brawl must have been...unpleasant.

I wonder what other legal limitations might have kept Snake from getting into Melee? It can't be just licensing, right?

Probably Nintendo veto-ing it if it ever went past the "asked too late in development to consider" issue.
Sakurai had to twist their arms to allow him to include Snake in Brawl.

 

[Ivander]

I'm even MORE stumped about this than I am when it comes to Nintendo's own characters... best I can say is that I've got a pretty good deal of SEGA, Capcom, Konami, SNK, and Namco characters that fit this bill that I sadly don't ever see happening in Smash, barring one massive miracle.

I mean, just the idea of a much lesser-known Capcom 3rd Party character getting in before Dante, Resident Evil, Monster Hunter, Morrigan and Arthur would be surprising enough. Like you said, it would be very very rare, but considering how much we've been surprised before by characters like Mr. Game & Watch, Wii Fit Trainer and Piranha Plant, who's to say Sakurai might not do something like this.

Android 21? But she is a video game character.

I was thinking you meant characters that may have been inspired or influenced by non-video game characters. As you said, Metroid was influenced by Alien but there's also Mega Man created from Astro Boy.

I was making an "Original the character Do Not Steal" joke. With Metroid as a "loose example", considering Ridley was named after Ridley Scott, the director of Alien. But I was quite literally doing "You know the best way to get a 4th party character/Non-VG character into Smash Bros? Make a 1st Party version, whether based around the same concept, but doesn't look the same or it does not look any different from the original aside from a couple tweaks, and put them into Smash Bros."

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

As cool as Hololive is, it's not a video game thing. They're basically website created characters. It's no different from ones from a Novel or otherwise. They aren't borderline either at best(and no, someone like Android 21 isn't borderline. She's not possible unless they allow anime/manga characters in. Period).

The media of origin matters for the franchise, not just the character. Something also to keep in mind is that Dracula in Castlevania was loosely based upon the specific novel, but he's also essentially been a name for a classical vampire quite fast. By the time Smash came along, Dracula could be split into completely different characters. He also isn't even playable anyway. Alucard was the one was considered as well, not Dracula. Meanwhile Simon and Richter are not based upon a novel but their own thing. The only reason Dracula even makes an appearance here is because he's from a video game franchise. He's heavily inspired by it and a retcon gave him notes from the novels he didn't used to have. But we already knew he isn't clearly the same thing as the original.

While it's neat the Witcher did its own thing, the actual product is an alternate version of the novel. Castlevania is not an alternate version of the novel by any means. It's an actual unique universe outright. SMT is also notable in that while it's pretty much a video game thing, Digital Devil Saga is not, as it was a Novel-based thing. MegaTen itself is actually a video game franchise. The Witcher ultimately is more like Digital Devil Saga. While it does its own thing, it's pretty clearly just an alternate interpretation of the Novels, not simply just inspired loosely by them. Also, Geralt outright appears in the various novels. No, he doesn't count. He's absolutely not like Dracula either. Who is in a fairly unique position(especially by the time Smash Ultimate would be released) that changes the situation.

 

[Pupp135]

You know, on the subject of troll and surprise picks. Do you think that, if Sakurai was given the okay and cooperation of a fellow 3rd Party, could he pull a Mr. Game & Watch/Wii Fit Trainer/Piranha Plant with a 3rd Party character? I mean, the most common surprise picks we speculate about are:

• A character who's game does not show them much as a fighter, but Sakurai somehow makes them into a fighter. EG. Wii Fit Trainer, Ayumi Tachibana, etc.
• A Classical character that hasn't seen any new games or a character comprised of various games from NES or older. EG. Mr. Game & Watch, R.O.B., Duck Hunt, etc.
• A very out-there pick that isn't a main character or popular character. EG. Piranha Plant, another Nintendo Mook, etc.

But nobody has speculated the thought of madlad Sakurai somehow getting the okay and cooperation of a 3rd Party company to get in a specific 3rd Party character that nobody was expecting had any chances. Sure, it's an incredibly small chance, but one minute ago, some people were quite adamant that Sora could never get in due to Disney. We tend to get surprised one way or another.

I don’t have a solid idea for a 3rd party option for a surprise fighter, but there are movesets for Tetromino

 

[Garteam]

You know, on the subject of troll and surprise picks. Do you think that, if Sakurai was given the okay and cooperation of a fellow 3rd Party, could he pull a Mr. Game & Watch/Wii Fit Trainer/Piranha Plant with a 3rd Party character? I mean, the most common surprise picks we speculate about are:

• A character who's game does not show them much as a fighter, but Sakurai somehow makes them into a fighter. EG. Wii Fit Trainer, Ayumi Tachibana, etc.
• A Classical character that hasn't seen any new games or a character comprised of various games from NES or older. EG. Mr. Game & Watch, R.O.B., Duck Hunt, etc.
• A very out-there pick that isn't a main character or popular character. EG. Piranha Plant, another Nintendo Mook, etc.

But nobody has speculated the thought of madlad Sakurai somehow getting the okay and cooperation of a 3rd Party company to get in a specific 3rd Party character that nobody was expecting had any chances. Sure, it's an incredibly small chance, but one minute ago, some people were quite adamant that Sora could never get in due to Disney. We tend to get surprised one way or another.

I think its worth noting that every WTF character we've had thus far has had a separate angle:

• Mr. Game & Watch - a unique character amalgamating a bunch of minor characters from various short games.
• R.O.B - a hardware peripheral with a largely imagined moveset.
• Wii Fit Trainer - a supporting character from a major Nintendo game that no one would have thought of in the context of Smash.
• Duck Hunt - an amalgamation of two supporting characters from a classic Nintendo game who fight with references to a hardware peripheral.
• Piranha Plant - a mook from a major Nintendo franchise.

I'm not entirely sure which direction they'll go in next. I don't think Piranha Plant's reception by the fanbase was strong enough for us to get another random character or enemy from, say, Zelda. I think Ayumi has the best shot because WTF picks tend to trend retro and a visual novel character who fights with stuff like poisoned coffee is a novel angle, but she might be too obvious to be a WTF pick after the Famicom Detective Club remake.

In terms of a WTF third party choice, I think the Space Invaders are a solid option. They're well-known, hold a lot of historical value, have a very iconic appearance, and are just out there to have people do a double take.

 

[TheQuester]

I think Master Chief is 100% going to be in the next Smash, for me it's just whether as Base Roster (Somehow) or DLC. I actually do think they can get Master Chief in the Base Roster and having Chief on the Boxart of the Next Smash would be awesome, but it would be very hard

I think Resident Evil and League of Legends will get fighters on the playable roster too. the thing is it might not be the characters that are listed here

Chun-Li is a Popular and Iconic character, and I think in Fortnite itself she was way more popular than Ryu. In the actual Street Fighter series she's usually not a high usage character like many of the shotos are, and that can be attributed to her Difficulty in use and Charge inputs being complicated in gameplay Which given they were made to be easier to do Special moves, kind of has the opposite effect in some areas

I think there's no point in putting in Chun-Li from a Gameplay standpoint if she's not based on Charge inputs like in the Street Fighter games, and I would like to see how Smash approaches a Character built and balanced around Charge inputs in the gameplay (and not just one move like Terry), because I think Smash can make it so even Casuals can love charge inputs again, so if they can make that, which I think they can, then Chun should be in.

For Fortnite itself, It's popularity almost seems to big to ignore, though with Nintendo seeming to turn down its characters appearing in the game likely due to the possiblity of the characters showing up on other Consoles, that might make the chances of Fortnite, at least being in the base game, not as likely

I think Geralt is actually possible, as Witcher is more known for the games than anything else. I don't know if he's getting in though

I don't think Fortnite is getting in tbh, i think its best chance was during Fighter Pass 2. It's possible Fortnite might be near shutting down when the Smash 6's DLC is begin picked, Fortnite is nowhere as popular as it once was, while it's not mentioned here, Overwatch chances are probably dead too, their best chance was during Fighter Pass 2.
League of Legends, though? Yeah i could see it happening, that game is iconic and i'd say it deserves it at this point, i'd say Ahri would be the pick from that series, they could also borrow some moves from Project L too.
Master Chief seems more of a end of pass character to me kind of like Sora, i don't think he'll be base game at all.
I think they will start DLC kind of like they did with Ultimate with Joker, a hype DLC character that's usually not asociated with Nintendo to catch attention like Nier Automata, League of Legends, Borderlands, Guilty Gear...stuff like that lol.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Fortnite is still a very ongoing and major thing. It's not dead at all, and it wouldn't even be dead if Smash 6 was started a bit later than today either. It didn't miss its chances in any way. Third Parties work entirely differently too. They don't deal with relevancy very specifically in general. Sometimes being an actively used product(even with no new games) could help, but that's about it.

As for Surprise Characters(nicknamed as WTF picks), none being also a Retro Pick specifically makes it interesting what they'll do next. But only cause Ice Climbers is the sole Retro Character in Smash. If we do get more, it's because Sakurai is either relooking at the previous pool for that slot or he wants another in that specific Slot. Remember, characters from Retro games is not what the Retro Slot even was. It was already specific to NES games, but it was more just ones he wanted among a very specific group at a very specific time. We have characters who are effectively Retro in other ways(Pac-Man for instance), but that isn't what kind of character was added either.

Every single character can easily be thrown into a very specific category of "why they were chosen". Retro, Joke Character, Surprise(the least used slots even) are some, then you got basic 1st Parties, 3rd Parties, Promotional, Pokemon(who do not follow a specific rule, but also they have licensing issues that normal 1st parties don't. They're kind of a weird mix of things, hence its own category). While some do overlap a little too, Retro is one that notably hasn't overlapped with a thing. And it makes sense. The slot was extremely specific. I do see it possible to happen again, but with the information in mind, it probably won't any time soon.

 

[ninjahmos]

If a Warriors character got in, do you think we would have Hyrule Warriors music in Smash?

 

[TheQuester]

I distinctly remember playing Brawl for the first time as an 8 year old and thinking it was a fighting game with a bunch of original characters that just happened to also have Mario, Pikachu, and Donkey Kong in it.

Like, I had no idea who were. Playing Subspace made it more confusing because it seemed like the characters already had established dynamics with each other.

That's probably a similar experience for a lot of people who grew up with a smash game. It was only after learning by playing the game on my own more and reading trophy descriptions that I realized these were all characters from their own video game series.

Imagine kids who start Smash Bros with Ultimate after the DLC....they might not know like 80% of the cast lol.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Would Tinkaton or Gholdengo be eligible for application this idea? I know Tinkaton is pretty popuar.

Purely from the metric that I proposed, Gholdengo maybe, as I've seen an add with them in it being like "here's all the Pokémon, and this is the thousandth!", but Tinkaton, probably not.

That being said, assuming Gen 10 isn't coming next year (and gosh I hope it's not coming next year), then Pokémon Scarlet/Violet is in a position where they actually can pick a popular character from the newest games so Tinkaton does still have a shot.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

If a Warriors character got in, do you think we would have Hyrule Warriors music in Smash?

Only if it's a HW character. Not much reason to take from a completely different product.

Lana would be cool, admittedly.

And yes, I mean ones actually from HW, not a regular Zelda character with some neat unique stuff/designs.

 

[Louie G.]

Fortnite is nowhere as popular as it once was

I feel like people have been saying this for a few years now and it's still not true. Fortnite is about as alive as it's ever been - and even if it wasn't as popular as it used to be, it would still be more popular than nearly any other game on the planet due to how massive that playerbase is.

The fact that Fortnite is still around right now and still receiving buzz and seeing a larger base of players bodes pretty well for it, certainly more than it would have during FP2. There's a world of difference between contemplating a Fortnite character in 2019-2020 when it was still a fresh trend, and present day in 2024 when the game has been kicking for seven years and not showing signs of letting up. No definitive comment on Fortnite's odds of getting a character, but acting like it's dwindling in popularity is a little ignorant.

 

[Garteam]

It is worth noting that we do have one example of a game based on a work from another medium getting into Smash, albeit in a very minor way:

[This is where I'd insert an image of the Motion Sensor Bomb from Melee had it not been late and had the website been working]

Sakurai mentioned on Melee's website that the issue with Goldeneye being based on a movie is that getting the rights would be infeasible (which could partially explain why the Perfect Dark Sensor Mine was used in the Japanese version instead). He doesn't mention that Smash is a Nintendo or even general video game crossover, although this might be due to Sakurai assuming that readers would view James Bond in this context as Nintendo character due to Goldeneye or Sakurai not having a finalized view on these things in 2001.

I do think Goldeneye proves that, if a video game based on an external property becomes notable enough on its own and deviates enough from the source material to have some original content, there's some chance it could be in Smash rather than being dismissed immediately. This isn't going to be random adaptations of other media franchises languishing in semi-obscruity, so unfortunately Dr. Gregory House still can't get in despite House MD on the DS. It's instead going to be a very small list of candidates that could fall under this exception. I can't really think of any other options that would reach the level of Goldeneye beyond the Witcher and maybe the Arkham series, but I still wouldn't call them likely even if I don't think Sakurai would be fully shut-off to the idea in principle.

 

[CommanderZaktan]

I have a question. For the FE series in Smash, do you want some cuts like Corrin, Roy, and sadly Chrom and only Marth, Ike, Lucina, Robin, and Byleth can stay? Or overhaul the FE roster?

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

I randomly remembered the Meat Boy devs tried to demand Meat Boy to be in Smash For with the "incentive" that they would work on Nintendo systems and then later tried to campaign for the Ballot.


....look how well that turned out lmfao. Not a single reference in For or Ultimate.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I feel like people have been saying this for a few years now and it's still not true. Fortnite is about as alive as it's ever been - and even if it wasn't as popular as it used to be, it would still be more popular than nearly any other game on the planet due to how massive that playerbase is.

The fact that Fortnite is still around right now and still receiving buzz and seeing a larger base of players bodes pretty well for it, certainly more than it would have during FP2. There's a world of difference between contemplating a Fortnite character in 2019-2020 when it was still a fresh trend, and present day in 2024 when the game has been kicking for seven years and not showing signs of letting up. No definitive comment on Fortnite's odds of getting a character, but acting like it's dwindling in popularity is a little ignorant.

My guess for this perception is that it's because pop culture has stopped freaking out about all of the Fortnite dancing 5 year olds so it's no longer in everyone's faces. It is still recognized as "the game the young'ns are playing nowadays" though.

 

[Ivander]

I randomly remembered the Meat Boy devs tried to demand Meat Boy to be in Smash For with the "incentive" that they would work on Nintendo systems and then later tried to campaign for the Ballot.


....look how well that turned out lmfao. Not a single reference in For or Ultimate.

All this reminds me is that Professor Layton also had a campaign for the Ballot like Meat Boy, Banjo&Kazooie and Shantae(I think Shovel Knight may have had one too, but I don't remember) and seeing how there's no reference to him in Smash either...

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

It is worth noting that we do have one example of a game based on a work from another medium getting into Smash, albeit in a very minor way:

[This is where I'd insert an image of the Motion Sensor Bomb from Melee had it not been late and had the website been working]

Sakurai mentioned on Melee's website that the issue with Goldeneye being based on a movie is that getting the rights would be infeasible (which could partially explain why the Perfect Dark Sensor Mine was used in the Japanese version instead). He doesn't mention that Smash is a Nintendo or even general video game crossover, although this might be due to Sakurai assuming that readers would view James Bond in this context as Nintendo character due to Goldeneye or Sakurai not having a finalized view on these things in 2001.

I do think Goldeneye proves that, if a video game based on an external property becomes notable enough on its own and deviates enough from the source material to have some original content, there's some chance it could be in Smash rather than being dismissed immediately. This isn't going to be random adaptations of other media franchises languishing in semi-obscruity, so unfortunately Dr. Gregory House still can't get in despite House MD on the DS. It's instead going to be a very small list of candidates that could fall under this exception. I can't really think of any other options that would reach the level of Goldeneye beyond the Witcher and maybe the Arkham series, but I still wouldn't call them likely even if I don't think Sakurai would be fully shut-off to the idea in principle.

And yet....literally only the Motion-Sensor Bomb got in. Something original to the game and not part of the film it's based on or the novel.

Do you see any acknowledgment of James Bond himself or any other aspect of the IP in 64 or Melee? No. In fact Melee goes out of the way to scrub any references to the source game, treating it as a generic item.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

On the other hand, the Motion Sensor Bomb was outright removed and redesigned to be a unique one. It was there barely for 1 game(Melee didn't fully recognize it either, as it's not the same in all languages). Besides that, it was now referred to as being from Perfect Dark. It's an outlier and a special situation that they removed. We did still have the Goldeneye design in the international versions, but that just shows how weird it was.

We aren't getting an outright non-game franchise to appear fully again anymore in a manner beyond at most either a Spirit(which is unlikely) or a possible reference(like the Brawl Chronices). That time went out the window and was a weird situation. It's not a precedent. It's an outlier. And the fact they decided "no, we can't keep doing this" shows pretty clearly how things changed. It also doesn't help that Perfect Dark didn't use its own design, so they had to change it anyway down the line. It was owned by Rare later on, but was still a design from a third party non game franchise. It's unsurprising they changed it. Too many legalities to start dealing with later for something so minor.

Basically? You aren't going to find some exception that helps with third party non-video game franchises. They don't exist. They're weird circumstances that were tuned out due to Smash not wanting third party non-video game franchises existing in it any longer. It's not that odd.

I did forget something; at the time, the unique game assets were created by Rare. Which was owned by Nintendo. That means that the reason it was so easy to work with is that it was just 1st party content being thrown in for fun. In other words, it's just more like a R.O.B. situation. That is, not entirely true video game content, but still 1st party, so it's not an issue. Once Rare went third party? Unsurprisingly so did the Goldeneye and Perfect Dark content. This is why it's not some special exception. It never was to begin with. The fact a lot of these suggestions are third party means it's much harder to get them in, and while Sakurai didn't outright adhere a non-video game character policy straight out till Smash 4(Melee more implies it), it doesn't mean anything would've changed before that.

Dracula could be considered another outlier, but as I said way earlier, it's very context dependent. He's a public domain character, and his specific information later was retconned to be based upon Bram Stroker's, but he is not literally the character. If you want a good comparison, take a look at the Fate franchise. Want to know how many are the same actual public domain figure etc? None. They're just their own fun interpretation, which is why multiple canonical versions can exist who are entirely different. They're the same as folklore. We have more than one version of Siegfried, Artoria, and many others, etc. That's what Dracula is(coincidentally he is in there too, though he actually is designed where his powers are based upon fake information. Very few stuff in legend is actually true. His name is, and so is some of the spike stuff, but that's it. He's not a real vampire, as they don't exist. He hates people treated him like one, as it treated his name and family as a curse. it's the point that he was put down as a mercy kill after being forced into his horrible form. He's one of the good people in that specific context overall. To also be fair, every single Servant generally had dangerous or crazy stuff with barely any being slightly non-dangerous to be around in any fashion).

 

[DarthEnderX]

But that's not the Conker that people love and remember.

Speak for yourself!

Diddy Kong Racing > Bad Fur Day

I'm just saying that Master Chief and Modern Doom Slayer are similar enough to where I think someone along the chain of command might have pause adding both at around the same time.

I could see them both being added to Smash...just not in the same game.

But do they have to be just 1st party?

Gimme 3rd party Scwarzeneggar and Stallone!

 

[chocolatejr9]

But that's not the Conker that people love and remember.

But that's the Conker I love and remember...

 

[smashkirby]

Would be perfect. Especially if he had an alt palette that gave him black fur with an orange robe with blue trim just to really sell the idea "This is what you asked for, right? "

Oh, God... YES!!

I know Sakurai already has a bit of a history of playing up a troll moment, but I REALLY hope he goes 'screw it' and just leans into this whole gag like Bugs Bunny going all-out on his adversaries in a Bob Clampett-directed Looney Tunes short.

I mean, just the idea of a much lesser-known Capcom 3rd Party character getting in before Dante, Resident Evil, Monster Hunter, Morrigan and Arthur would be surprising enough. Like you said, it would be very very rare, but considering how much we've been surprised before by characters like Mr. Game & Watch, Wii Fit Trainer and Piranha Plant, who's to say Sakurai might not do something like this.

Exactly. Like, I don't exactly see folks like Gil, Bravoman, Wonder Momo, Valkyrie, NiGHTS, Amigo, Ulala, Reiko Hinomoto, Twinbee, Batsu Ichimonji, Akira Kazama, Bahn, Honey, Rock Howard, or Bonne Jenet getting into Smash in this lifetime. Buuut, Sakurai has done stuff we thought was impossible in the past...

 

[DarthEnderX]

I saw KingofPhantoms talking about Scrooge McDuck, what about the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles? (another cartoon that got beloved games on the NES)

What about Batman and Little Nemo?

BECAUSE REASONS!

 

[Louie G.]

As arbitrary as the character selection is, I'm glad this cover art has stuck with you so much because it was very striking to me when I first read this issue too. So it's neat to see it brought up so frequently, it was very important to me when I was younger.

Exactly. Like, I don't exactly see folks like Gil, Bravoman, Wonder Momo, Valkyrie, NiGHTS, Amigo, Ulala, Reiko Hinomoto, Twinbee, Batsu Ichimonji, Akira Kazama, Bahn, Honey, Rock Howard, or Bonne Jenet getting into Smash in this lifetime. Buuut, Sakurai has done stuff we thought was impossible in the past...

Out of these, I feel like Twinbee is at least worth the conversation. When contemplating iconic SHMUPs and mascots I feel like Twinbee is one that lends itself especially well to Smash. Kinda tricky to represent a lot of the games where it's just a ship, beyond some music of course, but the "cute-'em-up" style does put more of a direct emphasis on identifiable characters.

 

[MBRedboy31]

It doesn’t ultimately mean anything at all, but it’s interesting to think that Reindog from Multiversus is probably eligible for Smash. He’s in a Sora-esque role of being a character who is from an IP that’s a crossover with non-gaming IPs, but is himself completely separate from said non-gaming IPs. (Multiversus lists Reindog’s home universe as “Player First Games,” the name of the game’s developer.)

 

[Wonder Smash]

All this talk about 4th party reminds of when I played the first Smash. Even though I knew only Nintendo characters could make it in, I did sometimes wonder how non-Nintendo characters would be like, including ones from other media. I was watching South Park and playing the N64 game at that time, so at one point, I was thinking about those characters in Smash.

Funny how many years later, Nintendo games (such as Earthbound) would go to be influences on a South Park game.

 

[Ivander]

Would be perfect. Especially if he had an alt palette that gave him black fur with an orange robe with blue trim just to really sell the idea "This is what you asked for, right? "

I got one even better. Keep the orange robe and blue trim, but rather than black fur, give him dark brown fur with a bright-ish light brown face, ears, hands and feet.

Spoiler: Just like

With an extra version with red eyes as a bonus Alt.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

I got one even better. Keep the orange robe and blue trim, but rather than black fur, give him dark brown fur with a bright-ish light brown face, ears, hands and feet.

Spoiler: Just like

With an extra version with red eyes as a bonus Alt.

And what about one with yellow fur?

It doesn’t ultimately mean anything at all, but it’s interesting to think that Reindog from Multiversus is probably eligible for Smash. He’s in a Sora-esque role of being a character who is from an IP that’s a crossover with non-gaming IPs, but is himself completely separate from said non-gaming IPs. (Multiversus lists Reindog’s home universe as “Player First Games,” the name of the game’s developer.)

Ironically, yes. Reindog would be just as eligible as Sora with a near exact situation (original gaming IP that happens to feature licensed IPs).