Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[LiveStudioAudience]

As someone not terribly interested in the metagame of competitive Melee, to me, it's like an older Mario Kart entry; certainly fun and with its own distinct novelties, but also aged enough in various respects that it has felt supplanted by the newest sequel.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I honestly understood the attitude of Melee players when Brawl was the main Smash game. Brawl was just, extremely flawed, very campy and Meta Knight had an advantage over just about every other character.

But lots of Melee players still got heavily invested in Brawl though! The difference between Melee and Brawl was in a way fun, because there where two games played equally as much competitively. Tournaments even hosted both games at times. When Smash 4 came around, most moved to that game. With Ultimate, the Melee competitive scene is at its ever lowest.

I think this explains the attitude of Melee elitists. Eventually, people will move over the older games.

 

[Dan Quixote]

I never understood while any flaw Melee might have is either charming or adds depth to the game while its fans nitpick the hell out of later games' shortcomings to prove its perceived superiority.

It feels like a big double standard born out of insecurity than anything.

Really feels like this only happens in fighting games, hell maybe only Smash. Soooo many other video games out there have these completely bizarre exploits that exist all over the place because coding a game is basically a controlled forest fire. And those fanbases love their game's little quirks! Whether it be because it's used in speedrunning, it allows access to otherwise unintended levels of strength/abilities, or it just becomes a meme in the community.

 

[Dinoman96]

But lots of Melee players still got heavily invested in Brawl though! The difference between Melee and Brawl was in a way fun, because there where two games played equally as much competitively. Tournaments even hosted both games at times. When Smash 4 came around, most moved to that game. With Ultimate, the Melee competitive scene is at its ever lowest.

Didn't most of the Brawl competitive scene move onto Project M before Smash 4 came out?

 

[Shroob]

Successful fighter=/=one with easy inputs. Tekken 7 was still able to sell 8 million units while barely dumbing down the core gameplay, so you still gotta learn the EWGF timing to play the game's own main characters.

That's just one example, and an older one at that.

Project L, the LoL fighter has already confirmed it's going with the simple input method while also still being a 2v2 tag fighter with assists not unlike MvsC.

 

[SKX31]

I never understood while any flaw Melee might have is either charming or adds depth to the game while its fans nitpick the hell out of later games' shortcomings to prove its perceived superiority.

It feels like a big double standard born out of insecurity than anything.

Think it's mainly "in group / out group" psychology coupled with how the fanbase was shaped. The casual / competitive conflict in the early days (2003-2004) shaped many of the fanbase's viewpoints: for example, the emphasis that the Melee community should be tight-knit, effectively creating a sense of family, etc. In a sense, the Melee playerbase quickly learned to roll with the punches, and that lead them to embrace the game. Most flaws the engine had was luckily enough not entirely game-breaking, and those that did (wobbling, edge-stalling etc.) were if not hotly debated outright banned quite quickly. For example, one of the more disliked mechanics even amongst Melee players is the edge granting full invincibility on regrab. Stalling the edge was quickly banned as a result.

Also, the Melee fanbase is heavily built around its own stories and legends. I mean, we're talking about the fanbase that annoited its foremost players "King of Smash", "The Five Gods" and "The God Slayer". Those are not small titles.

There are certainly a lot of quirks Brawl / Smash 4 have that are charming in their own right - DACUS, for instance - but in general the Ultimate playerbase (and Brawl / 4, which is where most of Ultimate's competitive playerbase comes from) do not share this sense of "family" and the overly protective streak as much.

Also, some of the main (un)intentional quirks Brawl / Smash 4 had did not have the same capacity for expanding depth; or those cast a major shadow over the games. Hitstun cancelling in Brawl effectively created an extremely defensive metagame, which did not pair nicely with tripping, chaingrabs still being a thing if not even more dangerous than Melee's, or the edge still granting full invincibility on regrab. Characters like and were extremely well-positioned to take severe advantage of that: to the point where tournament organizers had to specifically invent or tighten rules just to counter Meta Knight. And that was with edge stalling already being banned. Not to mention the Meta Knight ban which fizzled out when MK players threatened to no-show. The ban's failure severely undermined Brawl's competitive scene as a result and left a sour aftertaste.

4 meanwhile had major issues with super-early KOs throughout its life, something that was cast-wide thanks to Rage and a lot of kill confirms or 50 / 50s off a single punch or grab (and those problems were exasperated by the extremely high set knockback) but and were released primed and ready to take full advantage of that. Bayo alone caused a major decline in viewership and enthusiasm, with EVO 2018's Grand Finals effectively being the last big nail in the coffin. 4 was relatively well-balanced with most of the cast (something Ultimate heavily improved on), but had significant problems throughout its life with the most dominant characters often being downright opressive.

Those problems cast a major shadow over Brawl's and 4's legacies to a degree the Melee's - or hell, 64's and Ultimate's - communities have not been forced to deal with (outside of the allegations a couple summers back, but that's a still very thorny topic). While there is a bit of a double standard, I point these out since they have shaped the discourse a lot.

Didn't most of the Brawl competitive scene move onto Project M?

Some did, but a good chunk went on to form the core of 4's and Ultimate's playerbases. Players that started out / rose to relative fame as Brawl players include:

• ESAM (of "PIKACHU BUSTED" fame.)
• Dabuz (probably the most well known to this day, has complimented his Olimar with Rosalina and Min Min.)
• Nairo (no need to introduce him.)
• Glutonny ( loyalist and the most well known French player.)
• Kameme (one of Japan's stalwart players, began as a Wario player until he swapped to .)

And so on. A couple of Brawl's Japanese players went on to become playtesters for Ultimate. Most notably 9B, the guy who developed 's infamous chainthrowing shenaningas. My headcanon is that Sakurai contacted him just to make sure that didn't happen in Ultimate.

 

[Sucumbio]

Think it's mainly "in group / out group" psychology coupled with how the fanbase was shaped. The casual / competitive conflict in the early days (2003-2004) shaped many of the fanbase's viewpoints: for example, the emphasis that the Melee community should be tight-knit, effectively creating a sense of family, etc. In a sense, the Melee playerbase quickly learned to roll with the punches, and that lead them to embrace the game. Most flaws the engine had was luckily enough not entirely game-breaking, and those that did (wobbling, edge-stalling etc.) were if not hotly debated outright banned quite quickly. For example, one of the more disliked mechanics even amongst Melee players is the edge granting full invincibility on regrab. Stalling the edge was quickly banned as a result.

Also, the Melee fanbase is heavily built around its own stories and legends. I mean, we're talking about the fanbase that annoited its foremost players "King of Smash", "The Five Gods" and "The God Slayer". Those are not small titles.

There are certainly a lot of quirks Brawl / Smash 4 have that are charming in their own right - DACUS, for instance - but in general the Ultimate playerbase (and Brawl / 4, which is where most of Ultimate's competitive playerbase comes from) do not share this sense of "family" and the overly protective streak as much.

Also, some of the main (un)intentional quirks Brawl / Smash 4 had did not have the same capacity for expanding depth; or those cast a major shadow over the games. Hitstun cancelling in Brawl effectively created an extremely defensive metagame, which did not pair nicely with tripping, chaingrabs still being a thing if not even more dangerous than Melee's, or the edge still granting full invincibility on regrab. Characters like and were extremely well-positioned to take severe advantage of that: to the point where tournament organizers had to specifically invent or tighten rules just to counter Meta Knight. And that was with edge stalling already being banned. Not to mention the Meta Knight ban which fizzled out when MK players threatened to no-show. The ban's failure severely undermined Brawl's competitive scene as a result and left a sour aftertaste.

4 meanwhile had major issues with super-early KOs throughout its life, something that was cast-wide thanks to Rage and a lot of kill confirms or 50 / 50s off a single punch or grab (and those problems were exasperated by the extremely high set knockback**) but and were released primed and ready to take full advantage of that. Bayo alone caused a major decline in viewership and enthusiasm, with EVO 2018's Grand Finals effectively being the last big nail in the coffin. 4 was relatively well-balanced with most of the cast (something Ultimate heavily improved on), but had significant problems throughout its life with the most dominant characters often being downright opressive.

Those problems cast a major shadow over Brawl's and 4's legacies to a degree the Melee's - or hell, 64's and Ultimate's - communities have not been forced to deal with (outside of the allegations a couple summers back, but that's a still very thorny topic). While there is a bit of a double standard, I point these out since they have shaped the discourse a lot.



Some did, but a good chunk went on to form the core of 4's and Ultimate's playerbases. Players that started out / rose to relative fame as Brawl players include:

• ESAM (of "PIKACHU BUSTED" fame.)
• Dabuz (probably the most well known to this day, has complimented his Olimar with Rosalina and Min Min.)
• Nairo (no need to introduce him.)
• Glutonny ( loyalist and the most well known French player.)
• Kameme (one of Japan's stalwart players, began as a Wario player until he swapped to .)

And so on. A couple of Brawl's Japanese players went on to become playtesters for Ultimate. Most notably 9B, the guy who developed 's infamous chainthrowing shenaningas. My headcanon is that Sakurai contacted him just to make sure that didn't happen in Ultimate.

Rewatching Evo 2018 gf omg it's so sluggish looking compared to ultimate

 

[Diddy Kong]

Didn't most of the Brawl competitive scene move onto Project M before Smash 4 came out?

Bro

Project M is a Brawl Mod..........

 

[Garteam]

If he was Devil Jin the whole time.

Could you maybe have Jin transform into Devil Jin for certain attacks, similar to how Jin will transform when tagging between his vanilla and Devil forms in Tekken Tag Tournament 2? Or is the issue that vanilla Jin's moveset deviates too much from Kazuya's to be an echo?

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

And yet a lot of fighting games are starting to add in easy combo options and simple inputs because they realize that casuals don't wanna have to learn stuff like half-circle or dragon punch. Yeah, people can just mash, but just mashing isn't how you pull off the cool *. People ain't gonna learn how to do * like quarter circle forward, but if you add in stuff like down down down heavy punch that can be input instead? They'll do that because it's legions easier to pull off. Hell, pretty sure that Ryu and Ken follow the exact same design philosophy in Smash.

I'm actually in favor of simple inputs. It's one of the few things on which I disagree with Sajam.
While I maintain that casuals can and do enjoy games like Xrd (I'll return to this point below), I agree that input complexity does impede many casual players' enjoyment. However, NASB doesn't have this problem.

Basically do for fighters what a Dark Souls or Hollow Knight's done did for combat oriented action games; they'll beat you down, but something about it will have you coming back.

The hook is the multiplayer component. One wants to improve to beat their friend (or random opponent). (There's also just wanting to beat the CPU or to improve for the sake of improving, but you seem to discount those, and I think the multiplayer component is significantly distinct from them.)

So, any game can be played casually. But not all games are designed with this in mind and especially to the lengths Smash goes to. Controls aside the existence of items and stage hazards ensures enough non-competitive elements in a given match to where everyone has a chance to win.

Tekken is not meant for casual play. But, it does have a history of some characters playing extremely well while in the hands of someone who just mashes. Baek, Eddie, heck even Jun or Nina, if you mash you're bound to overwhelm other casual players because their moveset contains strings like 121212, 343334333[inf], etc it's kinda braindead. Now obviously a seasoned player will dismantle anyone just mashing by simply side stepping at the right time or using a character with a counter. But if everyone playing is at the same level of casualness then it's pretty much just who can out-mash the other.

As for Melee's engine being superior that's a misleading argument. The reason why advanced techniques even happen in the game is because of the holes in the engine that weren't fleshed out beforehand leading to essentially glitched gameplay. That is not "superior."

I care about what an engine lets players do, not how elegant or air-tight its coding is. A perfectly coded yet boring engine is inferior to a mess that turns out fun.

I just don't see how anyone can think melee is a superior fighting game engine when it's clear they're not talking about actual reasons the engine itself is better. If anything they're saying the outcome of the engine is "better" because of what it allows you to do and later engine designs restricted this freedom but I feel a fg engine is "better" the more uniform it applies its mechanics across the entire roster and whose advanced techniques are not the results of missed opportunities from play testing.

Things the engine allows players to do are reasons the engine itself is better. What else would they be?

Now, communicating counters to such tactics to players - like using ambigous movement to avoid projectile spam - can be rather tricky, and it doesn't help that Training Mode is sadly a bit too bare bones. You can't set a CPU to Side B without mods, so training vs. say Samus' Missiles, PK Fire or Blazing End is next-to-impossible in Training Mode. That is something I'd like to see them fix next game, alongside giving a more detailed command list. People won't need to spend thousands of hours in Training Mode labbing out comboes, no, but something that like that would help in situations they might encounter rather often.

I agree completely. Xrd actually has a good training mode that teaches players to do cool **** and deal with options they might face in matches against human opponents.

I never understood while any flaw Melee might have is either charming or adds depth to the game while its fans nitpick the hell out of later games' shortcomings to prove its perceived superiority.

It feels like a big double standard born out of insecurity than anything.

I don't know where you're seeing this. There's plenty of stuff in Melee called out by the community as bull****, and if a "flaw" in another game's code makes it more fun to play (by their standards), I expect they would be a fan of it (insofar as it improves the game - they might say it could be better, that it wouldn't be necessary if not for some flaw, etc.).

With Ultimate, the Melee competitive scene is at its ever lowest.

You're mistaken.

Also, some of the main (un)intentional quirks Brawl / Smash 4 had did not have the same capacity for expanding depth; or those cast a major shadow over the games. Hitstun cancelling in Brawl effectively created an extremely defensive metagame, which did not pair nicely with tripping, chaingrabs still being a thing if not even more dangerous than Melee's, or the edge still granting full invincibility on regrab.

Yes, the net result of Melee's quirks makes it more fun to its fans than later games.

 

[Shroob]

I'm actually in favor of simple inputs. It's one of the few things I disagree with Sajam on.
While I maintain that casuals can and do enjoy games like Xrd (I'll return to this point below), I agree that input complexity is does impede many casual players' enjoyment. However, NASB doesn't have this problem.

It doesn't have this problem.


But what it does have is jank, lots and lots of jank. It's been a few months since I looked deeply at the game, but back when I did, a lot, and by that I mean most, animations looked incredibly either unfinished or nonsensical in their hitboxes.


Some people may like that SPEED, but I'm sorry, it just doesn't look pleasant to look at. Seeing characters basically zip around with choppy looking animations is just, bleh. I'm not expecting Smash levels of animations here, but the animations feel like they're too jarring, many of which feeling like they have too little weight behind them. The sound design also doesn't help, at all.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Really NASB just faces an uphill climb no matter the angle.

-The lack of voiced characters and additional elements from the shows turns off Nickelodeon fans
-Casual platform fighter players aren't deeply impressed by the jank or lack of fun party elements like items or wackier stages
-Competitive players have high standards for a game to rank alongside Melee or Ultimate in terms of the mechanics
-Various others just don't see enough unique elements to make it stand out in comparison to Smash overall

 

[PeridotGX]

I don't think there's much of a point trying to make the next Smash like Melee, because Melee fans are used to Melee and don't want much change. The best option to make them happy would be to plop Melee with Slippi on the eshop for $30. Don't do anything else, because then Link might lose a true combo on Mewtwo, completely changing the meta and causing the fanbase to stick with the original.

 

[Dan Quixote]

I don't think there's much of a point trying to make the next Smash like Melee, because Melee fans are used to Melee and don't want much change. The best option to make them happy would be to plop Melee with Slippi on the eshop for $30. Don't do anything else, because then Link might lose a true combo on Mewtwo, completely changing the meta and causing the fanbase to stick with the original.

Nah I truly do think that if Nintendo remade/rereleased Melee with balance changes then the whole community would quickly move onto that one, just for the simple of fact of it would stop being a massive pain to find TV sets, buy the game, buy the console, stream the game, play online with the game, etc.

 

[Dinoman96]

Yeah unfortunately Nintendo has absolutely zero reason to directly pander to dedicated Melee fans. Pretty much every Smash game after Melee (with the exception of Smash Wii U because lol Wii U) has sold more than it, especially with Ultimate selling 20+ million copies and becoming the best selling fighting game of them all.

 

[Digital Hazard]

Nah I truly do think that if Nintendo remade/rereleased Melee with balance changes then the whole community would quickly move onto that one, just for the simple of fact of it would stop being a massive pain to find TV sets, buy the game, buy the console, stream the game, play online with the game, etc.

No, not at all. A lot of Melee's competitive stuff has been gained thanks to exploits that, knowing Nintendo, they would remove. Even rereleasing it could involve tampering with that since porting a game to new hardware involves more than just dumping the files in a new format, and how many rereleases of games over the years have had new glitches?

 

[Dan Quixote]

No, not at all. A lot of Melee's competitive stuff has been gained thanks to exploits that, knowing Nintendo, they would remove. Even rereleasing it could involve tampering with that since porting a game to new hardware involves more than just dumping the files in a new format, and how many rereleases of games over the years have had new glitches?

It's propaganda that Nintendo would take out things like wavedashing or L-canceling in a remake. They don't hate those mechanics, they just hate people modding their games to add those back in. Look at the polish of Ultimate! If it was finally Nintendo's responsibility to work on Melee again, they would make the advanced techs easier if anything. Yeah it wouldn't be the Melee people have been playing for 20 years, and it would have bizarre decisions certainly being made along the lines of dumb online matchmaking mechanics or maybe weird macros like the shorthop aerials in Ultimate or even just character tweaks that turn out to be way bigger than tweaks. But I am 100% certain that in the face of any of that, the community would take not having to deal with the crappy troubles of buying CRT sets or the unendingly rising prices of the disk itself for all of it.

 

[Dinoman96]

tfw the only way Melee would ever see the light of day again is if Nintendo were to release rom dump GCN games on NSO...which is a never ever in of itself

 

[DarthEnderX]

Furthermore, there are levels of skill past button mashing that I would still categorize as casual.

That's me! I know all the special moves, but I can't do combos for ****!

 

[SKX31]

Some people may like that SPEED, but I'm sorry, it just doesn't look pleasant to look at. Seeing characters basically zip around with choppy looking animations is just, bleh. I'm not expecting Smash levels of animations here, but the animations feel like they're too jarring, many of which feeling like they have too little weight behind them. The sound design also doesn't help, at all.

It's always going to be YMMV territory - I grew up with Melee so of course I have a soft spot for the animations and sound design - but to offer my PoV:

Speed is part of it - some players and spectators (incl. me) do like to at least watch the fast pace it thrives on, very much akin to a basketball game's typically fast pace - but the main thing people think of is "interactive extensions".

What I mean by that is that there's a huge freedom of movement and number of ways to extend comboes and press the attack - but the trade off is that it demands utmost attention and readiness from the attacker (which has caused major issues, yes). Interactions happen constantly and it creates a major tug of war where the players involved are looking for an opening - but unlike fellow punish-heavy game 64 an opening is much more fluid. For me, it's like watching a high-stakes basketball or hockey game, where one singular movement can instantly cascade into much more quickly. But it's never set in stone. The jank adds to that, with one of the game's most known stories being a certain glitch intervening at just the wrong moment to create one of the most confusing endings to a high-stakes game. It's also surprisingly consistent to a fault - the players expected to do well will do really well most of the time - which keeps the storylines going.

And all of the above is not everyone's tastes, which is fully okay. It's very much like another game released around the same time, MvC2. And like Melee MvC2 has a really devoted following that took that game's janky inner workings to its logical extremes.

More neutral heavy Smash games (Brawl, 4, Ultimate) provide something of a contrast even as 4 and Ultimate sought to embrace a middle ground between Melee and Brawl. The punishes aren't as devastating, instead they focus a lot more on steady pressure. It's much more like say a soccer or baseball game - patience plays a bigger role and momentum is carried over through consecutively outmaneuvering the opponent. It makes the interactions much more predictable - and that in itself can be much simpler and reassuring, if sometimes limiting. One of the biggest flaws Ultimate's gameplay has IMHO is that there are no additional defensive options while on a platform (they removed shielddropping in Ultimate when it had been present in all of the previous games): this makes it very easy to shark underneath and makes it downright bad to be on a platform in a lot of situations. Kinda undermines the "platform fighter" aspect, but I digress.

FWIW Ultimate's done a great job mending the gap that existed between Brawl / 4 and Melee, and most Melee fans are pretty much okay with Ultimate (even if the fanbase doesn't play it primarily). Hell, it's saying something when four of the five "Gods"* plus "The God Slayer"** have dabbled in Ultimate at a competitive level. Not to the extent they dominated Melee and shaped that game, but still. Ultimate's also created its own stories and been able to maintain them, which helps maintain interest in the game: Leo for instance has the tendency to clutch things out in the wildest of fashions, and I find that storyline beautiful in its own way.

* (Armada, M2K, Mango and HBox, with PPMD the sole exception - albeit he had a stint in Brawl.)
** (Leffen, albeit he went off the rails completely with his criticism towards Ultimate.)

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

It doesn't have this problem.


But what it does have is jank, lots and lots of jank. It's been a few months since I looked deeply at the game, but back when I did, a lot, and by that I mean most, animations looked incredibly either unfinished or nonsensical in their hitboxes.


Some people may like that SPEED, but I'm sorry, it just doesn't look pleasant to look at. Seeing characters basically zip around with choppy looking animations is just, bleh. I'm not expecting Smash levels of animations here, but the animations feel like they're too jarring, many of which feeling like they have too little weight behind them. The sound design also doesn't help, at all.

It sounds like speed itself isn't the problem.

I don't think there's much of a point trying to make the next Smash like Melee, because Melee fans are used to Melee and don't want much change. The best option to make them happy would be to plop Melee with Slippi on the eshop for $30. Don't do anything else, because then Link might lose a true combo on Mewtwo, completely changing the meta and causing the fanbase to stick with the original.

Plenty of Melee fans and top players at least tried Project M and Ultimate. I'm not sure where this idea that Melee fans don't want anything changed about the game. UCF changed the metagame. I'm hopeful for Melee 1.03.

Why would Melee fans pay for Melee on Switch? How is that better than any currently available option?

Nah I truly do think that if Nintendo remade/rereleased Melee with balance changes then the whole community would quickly move onto that one, just for the simple of fact of it would stop being a massive pain to find TV sets, buy the game, buy the console, stream the game, play online with the game, etc.

Do you think Nintendo's "balance changes" or online would be good? It's nice to imagine, but let's be real.

The game can be played for free on PC.

It's propaganda that Nintendo would take out things like wavedashing or L-canceling in a remake. They don't hate those mechanics, they just hate people modding their games to add those back in. Look at the polish of Ultimate! If it was finally Nintendo's responsibility to work on Melee again, they would make the advanced techs easier if anything. Yeah it wouldn't be the Melee people have been playing for 20 years, and it would have bizarre decisions certainly being made along the lines of dumb online matchmaking mechanics or maybe weird macros like the shorthop aerials in Ultimate or even just character tweaks that turn out to be way bigger than tweaks. But I am 100% certain that in the face of any of that, the community would take not having to deal with the crappy troubles of buying CRT sets or the unendingly rising prices of the disk itself for all of it.

If those in charge like the techniques, why have they removed them?

The game can be played for free on PC.

 

[Shroob]

It sounds like speed itself isn't the problem.

When animations come out soo fast that they look like Game and Watch level of choppiness, when they really, really shouldn't, the game feels like it was made to be 'fast for the sake of being fast', without any forethought into how that'd make the game actually look in motion, or the weight behind, or lack thereof, for moves in general.



At the end of the day though, the numbers don't lie. NASB is in a bad, bad state that's hemorrhaging players to the point that on PC it's down to double-digits, and its Twitch viewership isn't much better.


There is no one thing that killed NASB, it's a lot of things that all came together to do so.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

When animations come out soo fast that they look like Game and Watch level of choppiness, when they really, really shouldn't, the game feels like it was made to be 'fast for the sake of being fast', without any forethought into how that'd make the game actually look in motion, or the weight behind, or lack thereof, for moves in general.



At the end of the day though, the numbers don't lie. NASB is in a bad, bad state that's hemorrhaging players to the point that on PC it's down to double-digits, and its Twitch viewership isn't much better.


There is no one thing that killed NASB, it's a lot of things that all came together to do so.

What I meant was that if the move animations were better, the speed of the moves themselves would be okay.

 

[osby]

What I meant was that if the move animations were better, the speed of the moves themselves would be okay.

The moves are so fast that there's not much time to animate them. I think it's weird how even some heavy attacks are a bit too fast to follow.

Just how fast %85 of the attacks in the game are is also a factor in rushdown appearently being the only playstyle in the game but that's a different topic.

 

[Gengar84]

That's me! I know all the special moves, but I can't do combos for ****!

Same here. The only fighting game I was able to consistently perform combos was the original Killer Instinct on the SNES.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Same here. The only fighting game I was able to consistently perform combos was the original Killer Instinct on the SNES.

SAME! And that's cause I believe it used to put the inputs up on screen as you were doing the combo and also the input was incredibly loose. You just dialed that **** in.

 

[Tankman from Newgrounds]

Hey guys, do you know where Smash goes after Ultimate?
Any ideas where?
Because, a lot of people want the new game to be a reboot, plus Smash Reboot could be great idea.

 

[Sucumbio]

Hey guys, do you know where Smash goes after Ultimate?
Any ideas where?
Because, a lot of people want the new game to be a reboot, plus Smash Reboot could be great idea.

Tactical RPG ofc duuuh!

 

[Tankman from Newgrounds]

Tactical RPG ofc duuuh!

Or maybe FPS game.
Wow, can't wait to see Nintendo Crossover in Call of Duty like game and with splatoon aesthetic to make it child friendly.

 

[osby]

Tactical RPG ofc duuuh!

Great, Fire Emblem haters will finally need to learn what genre it is.

 

[Digital Hazard]

Because, a lot of people want the new game to be a reboot, plus Smash Reboot could be great idea.

I am convinced Smash fans have no idea what a reboot truly is.

A few moveset revamps and roster cuts doesn't constitutes a reboot.

 

[Tankman from Newgrounds]

I am convinced Smash fans have no idea what a reboot truly is.

A few moveset revamps and roster cuts doesn't constitutes a reboot.

But it can change some aspects of Gameplay like removal of Stage Morph and make it like in PSABR to make it more creative rather than switching stages during fight.

 

[Digital Hazard]

But it can change some aspects of Gameplay like removal of Stage Morph and make it like in PSABR to make it more creative rather than switching stages during fight.

Still not really a reboot and more a change in stage direction.

 

[Tankman from Newgrounds]

Still not really a reboot and more a change in stage direction.

Then just Change the whole gameplay to make it as Traditional Fighter.

 

[HyperSomari64]

Or maybe FPS game.
Wow, can't wait to see Nintendo Crossover in Call of Duty like game and with splatoon aesthetic to make it child friendly.

I have a better idea:
Nintendo All-Stars: The Puzzle Alliance.
Having on it Yoshi's Egg, Yoshi's Cookie, Dr. Mario, and Puzzle League; with a mixed match mode and a roster with various Nintendo characters.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

Then just Change the whole gameplay to make it as Traditional Fighter.

Still not a reboot as a reboot tends to have similar controls as the previous game. And Smash doesn’t need to fully change its gameplay as its solid and works well for what it is.

 

[Tankman from Newgrounds]

I have a better idea:
Nintendo All-Stars: The Puzzle Alliance.
Having on it Yoshi's Egg, Yoshi's Cookie, Dr. Mario, and Puzzle League; with a mixed match mode and a roster with various Nintendo characters.

Heck yeah!
Or something better:
"NINTENDO ALLSTARS: Dance Battle"

It would be a rythmm game, where it's like Just Dance and FNF, but it has Nintendo Roster and it also takes inspiration from Rythmm Heaven.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Hey guys, do you know where Smash goes after Ultimate?
Any ideas where?
Because, a lot of people want the new game to be a reboot, plus Smash Reboot could be great idea.

You...you've been in this thread for months now, right?

 

[Tankman from Newgrounds]

You...you've been in this thread for months now, right?

Yup.
What's wrong? Am I annoying or what?

 

[Guynamednelson]

I am convinced Smash fans have no idea what a reboot truly is.

A few moveset revamps and roster cuts doesn't constitutes a reboot.

The Smash Reboot starter packs, pick your poison:

1. Literally just a traditional Smash sequel
2. Smash no longer being a platform fighter

...I kind of think Smash no longer being a platform fighter would be a bigger boost to NASB's popularity than any update that adds items or voices or Jimmy Neutron. People who are actually interested in fighting on platforms aren't gonna wanna stick to Ultimate forever. Even Melee fans don't want to solely play THE Super Smash Bros. Melee For The Nintendo Gamecube forever, seeing as how Project M exists and has the Brawl newcomers, a rebalanced cast, and a mix of Melee and Brawl tech/exploits/whatever, and most indie platform fighter devs tend to lean towards Melee's gameplay style while not making what's literally just Melee with a different coat of paint.

This isn't saying Smash should stop being a platform fighter, by the way. I want anything but that.