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Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

Shroob

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That game.... well it's far from dead but, it missed its window to be a massive success and is just kinda, trudging along at this point.
They could pretty easily drum up interest by running tournaments with big pots.
Actually, it's been awhile since I've looked at NASB's player counts so lemme ju---




Holy

****



Yes, this is just one platform, that being steam, but.... NASB has effectively dropped over like, 90% of its playerbase on Steam since launching only a few months ago.



I retract my prior statement, no, this game is dead. A double digit player count, triple on a good day, is dead.
 

chocolatejr9

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Actually, it's been awhile since I've looked at NASB's player counts so lemme ju---




Holy

****



Yes, this is just one platform, that being steam, but.... NASB has effectively dropped over like, 90% of its playerbase on Steam since launching only a few months ago.



I retract my prior statement, no, this game is dead. A double digit player count, triple on a good day, is dead.
I feel bad for Ludosity...
 

Guynamednelson

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I think everyone does. The game should have never launched in the state that it was in, and if this shows anything, it's sadly too late for it.
Have you heard of the critically acclaimed MMORPG Final Fantasy XIV?

No seriously, that critical acclaim which eventually reached meme status took years. The original version of FFXIV was bad enough to be worthy of Wikipedia's List of video games notable for negative reception.
 

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Given that NASB is still getting DLC, I think it would be more accurate to call NASB mostly dead. They could pull a Street Fighter V and turn their ship around by adding strong supplemental content via DLC that reverses the public perception of the game as a whole.

That being said, this is all could at this point. Nickelodeon could also just force the DLC out of the door while it's undercooked like the base game and solve absolutely nothing.
 

chocolatejr9

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Shroob

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Have you heard of the critically acclaimed MMORPG Final Fantasy XIV?

No seriously, that critical acclaim which eventually reached meme status took years. The original version of FFXIV was bad enough to be worthy of Wikipedia's List of video games notable for negative reception.
One's Final Fantasy, which has Square-Enix pumping millions into it.


The other's NASB, which Ludosity has to pull teeth to do anything due to Nick.
 

Guynamednelson

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Hot take: Multiversus might be even more screwed than Nick. As NASB has shown, casuals can be highly sensitive to signs of a low budget, and MV's only indication that the budget might be higher is voice acting, while its roster is still smaller and the graphics aren't looking better. As well, F2P doesn't necessarily mean a highly successful game. I mean, who's still playing Radical Heights or Heroes of the Storm?
 

Guynamednelson

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Hot take: Multiversus might be even more screwed than Nick. As NASB has shown, casuals can be highly sensitive to signs of a low budget, and MV's only indication that the budget might be higher is voice acting, while its roster is still smaller and the graphics aren't looking better. As well, F2P doesn't necessarily mean a highly successful game. I mean, who's still playing Radical Heights or Heroes of the Storm?
Oh, and I should mention, despite what the NASB and MV subforums here might indicate, more people would rather talk about NASB (and its lack of devtime/funding/players but still) than MV. If the spotlight's focusing more on a DEDGAEM than one in development, that's not good news.
 

Shroob

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Oh, and I should mention, despite what the NASB and MV subforums here might indicate, more people would rather talk about NASB (and its lack of devtime/funding/players but still) than MV. If the spotlight's focusing more on a DEDGAEM than one in development, that's not good news.
People are entertaining MV at all?


I rarely see any talk about it outside of dedicated discussion boards and such, it's nowhere close to how hyped up NASB was pre-release.
 

Guynamednelson

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People are entertaining MV at all?


I rarely see any talk about it outside of dedicated discussion boards and such, it's nowhere close to how hyped up NASB was pre-release.
exactly

The only form of bad publicity is...no publicity at all. Which MV has if you look anywhere but this board's MV forum.
 

Shroob

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Given that NASB is still getting DLC, I think it would be more accurate to call NASB mostly dead. They could pull a Street Fighter V and turn their ship around by adding strong supplemental content via DLC that reverses the public perception of the game as a whole.

That being said, this is all could at this point. Nickelodeon could also just force the DLC out of the door while it's undercooked like the base game and solve absolutely nothing.
Isn't the last confirmed piece of DLC coming out Shredder and then nothing else beyond that point? I don't recall a season pass being a thing or anything of the sort.
 

Guynamednelson

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Isn't the last confirmed piece of DLC coming out Shredder and then nothing else beyond that point? I don't recall a season pass being a thing or anything of the sort.
They already confirmed several post-Shredder fighters are gonna start development after him.
 

MBRedboy31

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Oh, and I should mention, despite what the NASB and MV subforums here might indicate, more people would rather talk about NASB (and its lack of devtime/funding/players but still) than MV. If the spotlight's focusing more on a DEDGAEM than one in development, that's not good news.
To be fair, quickly after its reveal, NASB quickly starting having posts from the devs on the official Discord that hyped people up, and then later had a series of character moveset videos leading up to its release. On the other hand, we've barely gotten anything yet regarding MV since its reveal. Conversation regarding MV will probably increase somewhat once we start getting more footage.
 

LiveStudioAudience

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It's kind of remarkable that no one's managed to figure out a Smash clone with an angle that people can get into.

I mean Mario Kart is huge, but various other franchises shifted focus in their emphasis that did lead to some strong stuff quality wise; Diddy Kong Racing, Crash Team Racing, Sonic & Sega All Star Racing and so forth. Platform fighters though seem to have an uphill climb seemingly every time. Heck, that a TMNT version (that's not even tied to a specific version of them) featuring Rabbids is actually one of the more successful efforts is pretty telling.
 

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It's kind of remarkable that no one's managed to figure out a Smash clone with an angle that people can get into.

I mean Mario Kart is huge, but various other franchises shifted focus in their emphasis that did lead to some strong stuff quality wise; Diddy Kong Racing, Crash Team Racing, Sonic & Sega All Star Racing and so forth. Platform fighters though seem to have an uphill climb seemingly every time. Heck, that a TMNT version (that's not even tied to a specific version of them) featuring Rabbids is actually one of the more successful efforts is pretty telling.
It's because platform fighters try to copy of Smash in either its crossover aspect or gameplay. You will not beat Smash at either of those things.

The only platform fighter I'd say has enjoyed healthy success aside from Smash is Rivals of Aether, and while they wear their inspiration on their sleeves, it's very different. Both base game content and its workshop content.

Rivals of Aether feels like one of the few games that feel like another entry in the platform fighter genre, instead of just a Smash clone. It would be good and successful even if Smash wasn't a thing.
 

LiveStudioAudience

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It's because platform fighters try to copy of Smash in either its crossover aspect or gameplay. You will not beat Smash at either of those things.

The only platform fighter I'd say has enjoyed healthy success aside from Smash is Rivals of Aether, and while they wear their inspiration on their sleeves, it's very different. Both base game content and its workshop content.

Rivals of Aether feels like one of the few games that feel like another entry in the platform fighter genre, instead of just a Smash clone. It would be good and successful even if Smash wasn't a thing.
Realistically, a workshop based platform fighter might be the most pragmatic path for it to genuinely stand out because it can do some interesting things with character creation/usage that other games in the genre can't.
 

SKX31

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People are entertaining MV at all?


I rarely see any talk about it outside of dedicated discussion boards and such, it's nowhere close to how hyped up NASB was pre-release.
It's kind of remarkable that no one's managed to figure out a Smash clone with an angle that people can get into.

I mean Mario Kart is huge, but various other franchises shifted focus in their emphasis that did lead to some strong stuff quality wise; Diddy Kong Racing, Crash Team Racing, Sonic & Sega All Star Racing and so forth. Platform fighters though seem to have an uphill climb seemingly every time. Heck, that a TMNT version (that's not even tied to a specific version of them) featuring Rabbids is actually one of the more successful efforts is pretty telling.
I could see MV doing pretty well since it has a roster filled with household names (although this is cheating in a certain sense since WB covers a lot of different media with each having household names), unique gameplay hook in the teammate moves and the presentation looks like it could establish its own playerbase. And FWIW Brawlhalla does do really well with relatively little marketing, so there's that.

Think the main reason why most platform fighters haven't taken off - outside of Brawlhalla and Rivals of Aether, those two have been successful - is that they're either low-budget enough to be written off as rip offs (Shrek SuperSlam still has a playerbase, but its fame is mainly memetic) or don't really have the resources to keep a playerbase sticking around. PSASBR is a good example of that where the roster and the presentation did it not many if any favors, but the closure of SuperBot and what happened both within the overall playerbase and the competitive scene effectively sealed its fate.
 

Guynamednelson

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is that they're either low-budget enough to be written off as rip offs
I've mentioned that already as why I think MV will barely be any more successful than NASB, if at all: Casuals can be very sensitive to signs of a low budget. There are exceptions, like Japanese gamers not craving ultra-high production values the same way we do (see: DQXI originally having MIDI music and no VAs, on the PS4 no less) or if a game is indie enough (read: major corporations like Viacom or WB are not involved) to justify its low budget.
 

Digital Hazard

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That game.... well it's far from dead but, it missed its window to be a massive success and is just kinda, trudging along at this point.
To be fair it's less the devs fault and more Viacom refusing to give a proper budget and release date.

Still, can't be denied it's not at all like what it could have been, and Multiversus with just one trailer so far looks more solid.
 

Digital Hazard

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Not really? It has voice acting, but...that's it. Equal-quality graphics, smaller and safer roster, yadda yadda.
Yes really.

Voice acting alone provides more charm, which is part of why Smash is as big as it is. Character charm. A lot of people don't play Captain Falcon because he's a collection of fast-moving hitboxes or have played F-Zero, they play him because he has personality in his actions, and voice acting is big part of that. And animations have to do with this too, no offense to Ludosity at all, but a bad part of NASB in presentation is that a bunch of attacks look kinda stiff.

You can have Danny Fenton and Aang fight in NASB, but without their voices or proper SFX, and with stiff animations, it comes off as much less exciting than it should really be.
 
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Shroob

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Yes really.

Voice acting alone provides more charm, which is part of why Smash is as big as it is. Character charm. A lot of people don't play Captain Falcon because he's a collection of fast-moving hitboxes or have played F-Zero, they play him because he has personality in his actions, and voice acting is big part of that. And animations have to do with this too, no offense to Ludosity at all, but a bad part of NASB in presentation is that a bunch of attacks look kinda stiff.

You can have Danny Fenton and Aang fight in NASB, but without their voices or proper SFX, and with stiff animations, it comes off as much less exciting than it should really be.
Agreed, but I'd add to it a bit.

The game, at least from an outsider's perspective, looks like it'd be made for casuals, but when you get your hands on it, it's just


Not


The game is janky as hell and super fast-paced, and it feels like it caters more to the hardcore Melee fans than to your average casual.


You wanna rope in casuals....? How exactly? Your selection of gamemodes is.... stock battle... time battle... and sure, I'll give you Sports but... what else is there? An unsatisfying arcade mode where the characters spout generic phrases of theirs with 0 interaction between their opponents... in a crossover fighting game? No items for casual play? Granted, they were going to be in but....?
 

dream1ng

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I have nothing against NASB, and not to be blunt, but... this isn't really the most surprising outcome, is it? Unless it's content with a very small userbase, nearly every game in this subgenre struggles to survive other than Smash, and NASB didn't seem like it had the quality to subvert that trend.

You see enough Smash clones come and go and it becomes the expectation that they won't have the legs to find a secure foothold. To be honest, I expect the same from Multiversus.
 
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ForsakenM

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Yes really.

Voice acting alone provides more charm, which is part of why Smash is as big as it is. Character charm. A lot of people don't play Captain Falcon because he's a collection of fast-moving hitboxes or have played F-Zero, they play him because he has personality in his actions, and voice acting is big part of that. And animations have to do with this too, no offense to Ludosity at all, but a bad part of NASB in presentation is that a bunch of attacks look kinda stiff.

You can have Danny Fenton and Aang fight in NASB, but without their voices or proper SFX, and with stiff animations, it comes off as much less exciting than it should really be.
Something you can already achieve with mods that the community has made so easy early Geico may have sponsored them, and also something they have already confirmed to be working on. By the by, voices don't make a game. If the game is garbage, getting the original VAs for the characters doesn't mean jack ****. Fortunately, NASB has an amazing core.

Everyone here is just ignoring all these games that came out worse and still have player bases now after improvements, where as NSAB honestly came out better than a lot of them. We still have Shredder, more DLC after, and crossplay coming as well. there is also stuff in the code for items and more casual options.

Also, how many have you have paid attention to the quality of Garfield? Do yourself a favor and compare Garfield to the rest of the roster in terms of his quality. If that is the future of the game, it's doing just fine.

My biggest wish is that throughout the DLC, it's fairly priced AND they take the time to update the base roster in terms of unique moves and models.
 
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Digital Hazard

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Something you can already achieve with mods that the community has made so easy early Geico may have sponsored them
You see, when the fandom has to fix it with non-official content............. I don't count it.

Sure, competitive Brawl with Project M is neat. Doesn't changes that official Brawl was designed to be casual-heavy with Meta Knight remaining infamous for how broken he is.

When it is actually implemented, we'll see how it goes. I legit want NASB to be better and think it will improve over time with its DLC and updates, but it can't be denied first impressions are also important and have sadly hampered the game.
By the by, voices don't make a game. If the game is garbage, getting the original VAs for the characters doesn't mean jack ****. Fortunately, NASB has an amazing core.
No, but they can still add much more personality. Imagine if in Smash, Pikachu was still exactly the same... But didn't speak.

Even mute characters like Piranha Plant and Mr. Game & Watch have appropriate SFX for their mannerisms and attacks.
 
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Shroob

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Something you can already achieve with mods that the community has made so easy early Geico may have sponsored them, and also something they have already confirmed to be working on. By the by, voices don't make a game. If the game is garbage, getting the original VAs for the characters doesn't mean jack ****. Fortunately, NASB has an amazing core.

Everyone here is just ignoring all these games that came out worse and still have player bases now after improvements, where as NSAB honestly came out better than a lot of them. We still have Shredder, more DLC after, and crossplay coming as well. there is also stuff in the code for items and more casual options.

Also, how many have you have paid attention to the quality of Garfield? Do yourself a favor and compare Garfield to the rest of the roster in terms of his quality. If that is the future of the game, it's doing just fine.

My biggest wish is that throughout the DLC, it's fairly priced AND they take the time to update the base roster in terms of unique moves and models.
I mean


Issue is that the game's lost over 90% of its playerbase according to its steam metrics. Yeah, that's only one platform, but the fact that it gets around anywhere from 20-80 players a day now is


Yeah that's a yikes, and unless something happens to make that number jump, something which Garfield didn't do at all, Nick/Viacom/Whoever probably won't see it as profitable to keep pumping money into a game like that.



Like, people point at Battle for the Grid as a turn around story but again, was it worth it? Because that game caps about at 50 daily players on Steam. Game's as dead as can be.



We have hard evidence to show that NASB is not in a healthy state, it's been hemorrhaging players, at an alarming pace. You don't go from 2k Steam players to like, 50 in 4~ months time without something being horribly wrong.
 
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ARandomFruit

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I've mentioned that already as why I think MV will barely be any more successful than NASB, if at all: Casuals can be very sensitive to signs of a low budget. There are exceptions, like Japanese gamers not craving ultra-high production values the same way we do (see: DQXI originally having MIDI music and no VAs, on the PS4 no less) or if a game is indie enough (read: major corporations like Viacom or WB are not involved) to justify its low budget.
From my experiences it seems like it would be the opposite. Casuals would probably not care about budget of the game and will just get it because you can play as Batman and Steven Universe in a 2v2 setting. Meanwhile the more hardcore gamer types would probably be "sensitive" to the lower budget looking and slower type gameplay and wouldn't get it.
While I like the games, you can sorta see an example of this in Pokemon Sword and Shield. More of the hardcore Pokemon fans hated it because of how low budget it looks (and other things but I don't wanna go through that conversation again). But it's still a top selling Pokemon game because more casual type people (and also parents) saw a new Pokemon game and just wanted to play it and have fun. Of course it's not always the case, some more hardcore types can still get the games and some of the more casual audience can be put down by graphics but I think the general "Casual" audience wouldn't care as much.
I probably got somethings wrong and it is just from what I've seen on the internet, but this is just my two cents on the subject.
 

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Like, people point at Battle for the Grid as a turn around story but again, was it worth it? Because that game caps about at 50 daily players on Steam. Game's as dead as can be.
It's called a cult following. Something that's extremely rare on the modern internet, which believes you must either have all the fans, or nome at all.
 

Shroob

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It's called a cult following. Something that's extremely rare on the modern internet, which believes you must either have all the fans, or nome at all.
A cult following doesn't turn profit for big companies though, especially if it's small and not like say, something akin to the Mother fandom in size.


Something like say, Skullgirls can get by through a grass-roots deal driven out of pure fan-passion.



But we're not dealing with an indie game here, this is Nick/Viacom, they're not above just dropping support for games if the money stops rolling in.
 
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Guynamednelson

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But we're not dealing with an indie game here, this is Nick/Viacom, they're not above just dropping support for games if the money stops rolling in.
Well, it...rolled in just as much money as Strive did, since both titles have sold around 5-700k copies. This.is probably why they have the funds for finishing up items, adding voices, and one pass's worth of DLC fighters now.
 

Shroob

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Well, it...rolled in just as much money as Strive did, since both titles have sold around 5-700k copies. This.is probably why they have the funds for finishing up items, adding voices, and one pass's worth of DLC fighters now.
That's good, and I do hope the DLC sells and gives the game a shot in the arm for a second chance.


Just because I point out that the game's currently in a dead state doesn't mean I enjoy it being as such, because what's the fun in a game being dead, that means that people can't play it.


The game has potential, I only hope they can do a complete turn around, but the odds are severely stacked against them right now.
 

ForsakenM

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I mean


Issue is that the game's lost over 90% of its playerbase according to its steam metrics. Yeah, that's only one platform, but the fact that it gets around anywhere from 20-80 players a day now is


Yeah that's a yikes, and unless something happens to make that number jump, something which Garfield didn't do at all, Nick/Viacom/Whoever probably won't see it as profitable to keep pumping money into a game like that.



Like, people point at Battle for the Grid as a turn around story but again, was it worth it? Because that game caps about at 50 daily players on Steam. Game's as dead as can be.



We have hard evidence to show that NASB is not in a healthy state, it's been hemorrhaging players, at an alarming pace. You don't go from 2k Steam players to like, 50 in 4~ months time without something being horribly wrong.
Yeah man, it's too bad No Man's Sky has no one playing their game...except wait, it has between 6-7K players recently. Didn't everyone trash that game, it's devs, and it was one of the most refunded games in modern times?

BftG just got more DLC recently too.

I think you've just gotten your head wrapped around success being something like Minecraft or Undertale when it comes to smaller devs. If I made a game and found 50 people were playing it consistently, I'd probably shed a tear. It MADE money for sure, and it will continue to because that's what DLC does. It will continue to be featured at tournaments and will likely just get more players back slowly over time as they give us more content.

You see, when the fandom has to fix it with non-official content............. I don't count it.

Sure, competitive Brawl with Project M is neat. Doesn't changes that official Brawl was designed to be casual-heavy with Meta Knight remaining infamous for how broken he is.

When it is actually implemented, we'll see how it goes. I legit want NASB to be better and think it will improve over time with its DLC and updates, but it can't be denied first impressions are also important and have sadly hampered the game.

No, but they can still add much more personality. Imagine if in Smash, Pikachu was still exactly the same... But didn't speak.

Even mute characters like Piranha Plant and Mr. Game & Watch have appropriate SFX for their mannerisms and attacks.
First impressions were actually what most people thought it would be: looks like jank, plays like super fun jank. Dumbasses who wanted content hyped it like it could compete with Smash even with all the character breakdowns: I stopped thinking that after the first one because I noticed Nick didn't put in the time or money.

First impressions would also tell you that Viacom pulled a Modern CD Projekt Red and little budget and even less time before release. The fact that Garfield and Shredder both exist in the game with their stages as well as a Double Dare stage, the costumes we finally got, and items and other things is proof they knew what they wanted but were rushed. Just go look at Slap City, it's definitely not incompetence on the dev's end. Though, let's be honest with ourselves: if they dropped millions or w/e into this game, it could have actually been something incredible.

And sure, it gives them personality, but I don't consider myself a person that a folder full of audio files will stop me from playing a game that's good at it's core. How many movies or series have been made with massive star power and incredible CGI but the movies are awful because the core has no substance? We've received an onslaught of games recently the look incredible but are boring or, even worse, not fun to play because the core gameplay is a mess.

Then you have something like Minecraft that looks so outdated it's insane...yet no one gives ****, in fact they find it endearing. Undertale wasn't the best looking or most-advanced game either, and look what happened there. You also have movies or anime or tv shows that have way less of a budget and yet people end up loving them because more effort was put in.

Sometimes you just have to admit that presentation. while it definitely does matter, people who aren't superficial can look past that to find the good in something. We just have a lot of folks who jump from thing to thing and have an attention span that would have gotten drugs shoved down their throat in my day...mmm, maybe still in today's climate too.
 
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osby

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It's called a cult following. Something that's extremely rare on the modern internet, which believes you must either have all the fans, or nome at all.
You say modern internet like people on gaming forums the 2000s were above calling every Japanese game they don't know obscure lmao.
 

Shroob

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Yeah man, it's too bad No Man's Sky has no one playing their game...except wait, it has between 6-7K players recently. Didn't everyone trash that game, it's devs, and it was one of the most refunded games in modern times?

At least according to its steam metrics, even when No Man's Sky was being trashed, it never dipped below 500 players, even reaching 4 to 5 digits at times.


Did the game drop like a rock after it launched? Yeah, absolutely, but looking at the timeline, you see it stabilize is the thing, and even get huge spikes at times.



Likewise, Garfield was added as DLC in what, December? When a DLC character is added to a game, especially a game like this, you'd assume that people would, ya know, come back just to try them out, no? But the Steam Metrics show a loss in player count in both December and January, despite new content being added.

No matter how you try to turn it, that's not a good look. New content being added and players either are leaving, or not returning to try it out? Mmmmm.
 

ForsakenM

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At least according to its steam metrics, even when No Man's Sky was being trashed, it never dipped below 500 players, even reaching 4 to 5 digits at times.


Did the game drop like a rock after it launched? Yeah, absolutely, but looking at the timeline, you see it stabilize is the thing, and even get huge spikes at times.



Likewise, Garfield was added as DLC in what, December? When a DLC character is added to a game, especially a game like this, you'd assume that people would, ya know, come back just to try them out, no? But the Steam Metrics show a loss in player count in both December and January, despite new content being added.

No matter how you try to turn it, that's not a good look. New content being added and players either are leaving, or not returning to try it out? Mmmmm.
I mean, when all you see is people saying the game is dead, people won't give it a chance. Self-fulfilling prophecy and all that.

This is why I'm saying the game will be fine, but it's audience will be mainly pros and those who learn of it as it gets updates more than when it launched. It won't be a massive success, but that doesn't mean it's a failure.

I'd laugh if it got featured at EVO at some point, but with the fact that Pokimane is acting as a major sponsor for EVO and how wonderful of a person she is combined with the dumb choices literally everyone is making for major events and the stain left on EVO, I really don't care about happens at EVO outside of announcements and MAYBE Top 8s.

Once again, you need to consider what was happening here: No Man's Sky was getting crazy advertisement and was promising to be the sci-fi game to end all sci-fi games. NASB is a game in a genre that would take effort on the level of Rock Lee and funds to spend like Francis Scott Key Fitzgerald to be anything more than an over-hyped blip on the radar because Smash has had years of no competition and still has gotten better with each release. There are massive differences between manpower, funds, time, support, and perhaps even talent. The second they did the first gameplay breakdown, I knew this game had it's chance thrown away to be something fantastic, but it is still something good.

It was always going to be niche, and the moment Viacom made these decisions, this was doomed to happen this way. It made enough money off the hype and the amazing bones the game has to be carried into a future where it might be something like BftG or perhaps even Rivals if it gets enough support.

But who knows, they may just drop it and cash in the money. Doesn't sound like something that team would do, but who knows? I'm not worried about it anyway.
 

Digital Hazard

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First impressions were actually what most people thought it would be: looks like jank, plays like super fun jank. Dumbasses who wanted content hyped it like it could compete with Smash even with all the character breakdowns: I stopped thinking that after the first one because I noticed Nick didn't put in the time or money.

First impressions would also tell you that Viacom pulled a Modern CD Projekt Red and little budget and even less time before release. The fact that Garfield and Shredder both exist in the game with their stages as well as a Double Dare stage, the costumes we finally got, and items and other things is proof they knew what they wanted but were rushed. Just go look at Slap City, it's definitely not incompetence on the dev's end. Though, let's be honest with ourselves: if they dropped millions or w/e into this game, it could have actually been something incredible.

And sure, it gives them personality, but I don't consider myself a person that a folder full of audio files will stop me from playing a game that's good at it's core. How many movies or series have been made with massive star power and incredible CGI but the movies are awful because the core has no substance? We've received an onslaught of games recently the look incredible but are boring or, even worse, not fun to play because the core gameplay is a mess.

Then you have something like Minecraft that looks so outdated it's insane...yet no one gives ****, in fact they find it endearing. Undertale wasn't the best looking or most-advanced game either, and look what happened there. You also have movies or anime or tv shows that have way less of a budget and yet people end up loving them because more effort was put in.

Sometimes you just have to admit that presentation. while it definitely does matter, people who aren't superficial can look past that to find the good in something. We just have a lot of folks who jump from thing to thing and have an attention span that would have gotten drugs shoved down their throat in my day...mmm, maybe still in today's climate too.
I'm a Kamen Rider and Super Sentai fan who is used to seeing outdated cheap CGI being used for fights. I still do keep my points about NASB.

I did acknowledge before that the game was rushed in a previous post and placed under a tight budget, but you're forgetting that we're also under very different contexts here.

Minecraft started as an indie and is a sandbox game with easy access with a beta that was free for years, discovered by what would become or were internet personalities at the time, and most importantly, is a completely different kind of game. It's a sandbox where you're allowed to build literally anything you want, with a survival mode just thrown in for good meassure. Not a crossover platform fighter. Undertale is yet another indie game that is built with sprites about quirky characters who you are meant to find some degree of endearment for; not everything is meant to look pretty, that's the point, everything is weird and it's up to you if you like the characters or not enough to spare or kill them. Again, not a crossover platform fighter.

Meanwhile a game like Smash is a big crossover property. And while you speak of superficiality, let's be honest, we all love Smash, but how many here would remain into it had they not seen Mario and Pikachu were on the same boxart and then played the game to see the mechanics are good? We like it or not, we still all want some degree of superficiality in the stuff we have, because that's easier to attach to. Moreso when we want to see our favorite characters duking it out in wacky cartoony fights.

The magic of Smash is to see Simon Belmont team up with Mega Man against Sephiroth and Pikachu in the Mushroom Kingdom and have the characters still mostly feel like the characters, even with creative liberties applied, and that goes with having them keep their voices or SFX in Mega Man's case, recreate their attacks from their series, display their personalities by simple things like idle animations and taunts.

And while I do know it's thanks to a tight budget and time constrains, again, I do believe NASB still fails in that at least partially. It's why there's so many people requesting for voice acting: They know the game has potential to be better than what it currently offers, not just in the area of gameplay, but portray the widely beloved characters of Nicktoons in a much appropriate way.

So yes, I am superficial, but when you don't have anything to superficially attach to...... Well, you end with "Magneto is just a function, Captain Marvel can do the same thing"
 

Shroob

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I mean, when all you see is people saying the game is dead, people won't give it a chance. Self-fulfilling prophecy and all that.
The game has issues. People online going "Ded gaem" ain't one of them. The big issue is, that people aren't giving it a chance, at all. The numbers don't lie, they're publicly available for all to see. This isn't like Blizzard hiding World of Warcraft's subscriber count, this is publicly available info to go off of. Garfield, a brand new character, and an extremely famous one at that, just didn't bring in many new players, at all, and the game lost players during this period instead of gaining.

This is why I'm saying the game will be fine, but it's audience will be mainly pros and those who learn of it as it gets updates more than when it launched. It won't be a massive success, but that doesn't mean it's a failure.
I don't think anyone(Here at least) has called it a failure.

It was always going to be niche, and the moment Viacom made these decisions, this was doomed to happen this way. It made enough money off the hype and the amazing bones the game has to be carried into a future where it might be something like BftG or perhaps even Rivals if it gets enough support.
Here's hoping. Like I said, the game has great potential, but it needs a lot of work, a lot.

But who knows, they may just drop it and cash in the money. Doesn't sound like something that team would do, but who knows? I'm not worried about it anyway.
I have the upmost respect for Ludosity, they wouldn't do that.

But at the end of the day, it's not their call. If Papa Viacom says "We're cutting off your funding, you will stop all work on this", well, there's nothing they can do. It's their game, but not their IP.
 
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