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Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

Diddy Kong

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Did Sakurai ever said that? Just asking to be sure because I couldn't find him saying anything about knives after a quick search.



It's his starting weapon, so yes. Later, you can buy daggers but it's not like those are better.
It was a translation of a Japanese interview I recall. It was years ago, and this is from memory. It was an interview that happened around the time Snake got revealed for Brawl, questioning whereas MGS content wasn't too mature for the audience of Smash. I found this link however where it was said knives , like automatic guns and the like, where out of the question for a moveset for Snake : https://sourcegaming.info/2015/06/16/solid-snake-joins-the-brawl-translation/
 

Among Waddle Dees

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Let me put into perspective how popular Waddle Dees as a whole are.

In 2017, HAL Labs teamed up with one of their licensed merchandise providers to run a poll on the most popular Kirby enemy. The winner would receive merchandise based around them. The poll results were as follows:

Waddle Dee (1,351)
Magolor (614)
Gordo (608)
Maruku* (593)
Kracko (455)
Daroach (434)
Waddle Doo (310)
Whispy Woods (282)
Susie (191)
Taranza (179)

*Maruku is Marx's Japanese name.

As can be scene, Waddle Dees were so popular, they got over twice as many votes as second place, beating out many characters that would be considered "more important" than them.

As Bandanna Dee was officially made to be their representative, adding him in would clearly please a lot of Kirby fans.



I find that funny at how this reflects commentary on how Kirby fans feel about Smash.

Overall, many Kirby fans have a somewhat mixed feeling about Smashed, due to growing resentment over how Smash treats Kirby. Most Kirby fans feel Sakurai panders too hard to older Kirby games, ignoring the majority of Kirby games that did not involve him in a major role. This not only applies to more modern games, but other older Kirby games that didn't involve him as well, most prominently the Dark Matter Trilogy.

Sakurai has even felt the need to defend himself on occasion about his choices after receiving too many complaints about this. We know that Sakurai felt the need to defend his decision to include the Great Cave Offensive stage in "For WiiU" after backlash over not including a stage based on something other than Super Star. According to him, he had plans for an Epic Yarn stage but canned it in favor of a Yoshi's Woolly World stage. (Most Kirby fans don't like this reasoning, by the way).

Many Kirby fans who want more modern Kirby representation hope that by adding Bandanna Waddle Dee, Sakurai would be forced to acknowledge more modern content that he seems reluctant to do. It's to the point where I think "Sakurai bias" has become Bandanna Waddle Dee fan's "too big," possibly eclipsing "hat goomba" in terms of perceived obstacles in the fandom.

As for me personally? I do want Dee, and do think Sakurai has a noticeable bias against games he didn't make. However, I don't think just adding Dee will solve that problem alone. I do hope that Forgotten Land will be able to change Sakurai's mind, however. If he can't even properly acknowledge a leap to 3D, I'm not certain if it's even posible to change his mind on this, and Dee will probably have to wait until someone else takes over.
I understand that Bandana Dee has a chance of pandering to most Kirby fans. I also fear there's a chance he won't.

If Sakurai is so bent on referencing his work over others, there's a possibility he may miss the point of Bandana Dee. He already did making him a upgrade to the regular Waddle Dee spirit. He could technically make him nothing but a Megaton Punch reference next time. Or worse, he could just be an assist that throws you items like he unceremoniously did in the 3DS games. I can see why Bandana Dee theoretically seems like a sensible shoe-in, but this far into the cycle, I fear he has one of the biggest chances to make the bias look worse (excluding the annoying Marx fight).

By the way, that 2017 poll specifically omitted Dark Matter Trilogy characters. It may not be totally accurate.
 

Gengar84

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My prediction is that Sakurai will still be involved in the next Smash but possibly as more of a supervisory role and let the rest of the team do a lot more of the actual work. I can’t imagine a Smash where Sakurai is completely absent.
 
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Sucumbio

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I'm not sure what his involvement will be but I expect him to be involved, at the very least as an advisor to keep the "spirit" of Smash alive.
 

Garteam

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I think Master Chief will be a base game character, while Doom Slayer will be a DLC character. Both of these characters have a ton of merit to their inclusion and would be amazing to have, but I think Master Chief would ultimately appeal more to a general audience while Doom Slayer would appeal more to Smash's pre-existing fanbase, so MC should have the priority as the better advertising point.

I also think that Dovahkinn is very likely to happen. Aside from Minecraft, Skyrim is the most well-known and successful game of the 2010s and there was already enough demand for Dovahkinn to get a Mii costume this time around.

Microsoft really has a very cool lineup of characters, so I don't think giving them three characters like Square Enix over the course of the next Smash game would be too much. Ditto for Capcom as well.
 

chocolatejr9

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I think Master Chief will be a base game character, while Doom Slayer will be a DLC character. Both of these characters have a ton of merit to their inclusion and would be amazing to have, but I think Master Chief would ultimately appeal more to a general audience while Doom Slayer would appeal more to Smash's pre-existing fanbase, so MC should have the priority as the better advertising point.

I also think that Dovahkinn is very likely to happen. Aside from Minecraft, Skyrim is the most well-known and successful game of the 2010s and there was already enough demand for Dovahkinn to get a Mii costume this time around.

Microsoft really has a very cool lineup of characters, so I don't think giving them three characters like Square Enix over the course of the next Smash game would be too much. Ditto for Capcom as well.
That is true, though keep in mind we still don't know how long this positive relationship is gonna last. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for more Microsoft reps (even though I've already accepted that Blinx will never be one of them...), but we don't know if things will change between now and next Smash.
 

RileyXY1

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That is true, though keep in mind we still don't know how long this positive relationship is gonna last. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for more Microsoft reps (even though I've already accepted that Blinx will never be one of them...), but we don't know if things will change between now and next Smash.
Especially considering that Microsoft might not be involved with the next Smash. They might decide to make their own platform fighter with their IPs.
 

Gengar84

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I could totally see both Chief and Doomslayer getting in eventually and I think one is very likely for the next Smash. I’m just not sure they would add both in the same game. I’d love to see either Chief or Doomslayer along with a second RARE character for the next game (preferably the Battletoads or Fulgore) and save the other for Smash 7.
 
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Dinoman96

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Especially considering that Microsoft might not be involved with the next Smash. They might decide to make their own platform fighter with their IPs.
Not if Phil Spencer has anything to say about it:




Why would Microsoft ever want their own platform fighter after how PSABR turned out or how after well received Banjo and Steve being in Smash were? Phil knows what's up. I'm pretty certain he'd rather see Master Chief appear in the real Smash than make some cheap knock-off that will easily die off after a month.
 
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Gengar84

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Not if Phil Spencer has anything to say about it:




Why would Microsoft ever want their own platform fighter after how PSABR turned out or how how well received Banjo and Steve being in Smash were? Phil knows what's up.
Maybe the next Smash could be a Nintendo vs. Microsoft theme. Narrowing the focus would excuse the amounts of cuts they would need somewhat, even if I would really miss a lot of the others.
 

Dinoman96

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Personally I don't really expect Nintendo and Microsoft's relationship to just completely break down like that. We still got Banjo-Kazooie coming to NSO and it looks like GoldenEye 007 is making a comeback. The future looks pretty bright on that front.

At this point, I don't really expect any company to say "no" to their character being in Smash. If/when third party cuts happen the next game, it'll just be because of Nintendo/Sakurai themselves not feeling like re-negotiating for some of them, due to time and money reasons. Not because of the third parties themselves suddenly wanting to bail out of gaming's biggest crossover.
 
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Wonder Smash

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Btw the Evil Ryu spirit event is up.


Kinda funny seeing there be 2 spots both with the same Spirit on the Spirit Board. It doesn't even Enhance at 99, so getting more than 1 is pointless.
Yeah, that was kind of strange.

Still, I got both spirits anyway. lol

Not if Phil Spencer has anything to say about it:




Why would Microsoft ever want their own platform fighter after how PSABR turned out or how after well received Banjo and Steve being in Smash were? Phil knows what's up. I'm pretty certain he'd rather see Master Chief appear in the real Smash than make some cheap knock-off that will easily die off after a month.
It's more him recognizing that Microsoft as a game company just doesn't have that rich history that matches up to Nintendo's. They probably could make a solid game but even with Halo, their IP lineup is just not enough to hold it up. I don't think it has anything to do with how PSASBR turned out.
 
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Dinoman96

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It's more him recognizing that Microsoft as a game company just doesn't have that rich history that matches up to Nintendo's. They probably could make a solid game but even with Halo, their IP lineup is just not enough to hold it up. I don't think it has anything to do with how PSASBR turned out.
I mean I would have to imagine PSABR's failure would have further spook them from even attempting their own Smash clone.
 

RileyXY1

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I mean I would have to imagine PSABR's failure would have further spook them from even attempting their own Smash clone.
However, if NASB and Multiversus both become massive successes it could give Microsoft the justification to make their own Smash clone.
 

Delzethin

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Never really understood the "Sakurai must have a grudge against modern Kirby" thing. Feels like too much of a knee-jerk reaction when there are other explanations for why things have happened the way they did. For one, he probably prioritizes lower-rung Kirby assets he was part of making because it's easier to get the licensing for them. For two, we actually know there was going to be a modern Kirby stage in Smash 4--Epic Yarn was slotted to get one, but once Yoshi's Woolly World turned out to be a thing, they prioritized that for a stage since it was more recent and two stages with the hand-crafted aesthetic would've felt redundant. So they found something else to base a new Kirby stage on.

I think this community is too quick to assume a weird decision must've been done out of personal bias or spite.

That said, I'd be shocked if Bandana Dee doesn't make it into the next game. He's become so important to the Kirby games that at this point he's one of the most glaring absences on the roster.
 
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Shinuto

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Smash Bros. hardly ever acknowledges Hyrule Warriors in general tbh. I think a large part of that is because Nintendo doesn't even publish those games in Japan, that's up to Koei Tecmo. That's certainly the biggest reason there wasn't any HW stuff in the base game, because pretty much everything else in base game Ultimate pertained to games published by Nintendo in Japan (which includes third party stuff like Rayman, Culdcept, Shovel Knight, etc) or games owned by third party companies with playable reps on the roster (Virtual Fighter, Bomberman, Monster Hunter, etc). Weirdly enough, Shantae is the one and only exception to this.

Of course Age of Calamity got a spirit event, but they were already doing a whole bunch of events based on third party stuff like Cuphead, Kunio, Warframe, No More Heroes, etc.
Shantae being base game is super weird. in relation to everything else having a published game in Japan.
 

Gengar84

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Never really understood the "Sakurai must have a grudge against modern Kirby" thing. Feels like too much of a knee-jerk reaction when there are other explanations for why things have happened the way they did. For one, he probably prioritizes lower-rung Kirby assets he was part of making because it's easier to get the licensing for them. For two, we actually know there was going to be a modern Kirby stage in Smash 4--Epic Yarn was slotted to get one, but once Yoshi's Woolly World turned out to be a thing, they prioritized that for a stage since it was more recent and found something else to base a new Kirby stage on because two stages with the hand-crafted aesthetic would've felt redundant.

I think this community is too quick to assume a weird decision must've been done out of personal bias or spite.
I don’t think he has a grudge against modern Kirby either. What I think is more likely is that he is just more familiar with the classic Kirby that he created and hasn’t necessarily followed the series much since his departure. It makes sense he would favor content he has a personal connection with.
 

Dinoman96

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Shantae being base game is super weird. in relation to everything else having a published game in Japan.
My guess is that she was on the same boat as Shovel Knight: popular enough on the ballot to get some kind of nod. Sakurai noted she was a popular request when the Shantae Mii outfit was announced.
 

Shinuto

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Pirate's Curse (at least the 3DS version) published in Japan by Nintendo?
Nope
My guess is that she was on the same boat as Shovel Knight: popular enough on the ballot to get some kind of nod. Sakurai noted she was a popular request when the Shantae Mii outfit was announced.
It just feel super weird that Shovel Knight didn't get a mii costume. I mean Im fine if it at all means Shantae has more chanes for playable status, but he just seemed like an easy pick.
 
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Simnm

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I don’t think the real gun thing really matters anymore after Joker. And yes, I’ve played Persona 5 I know that contextual lore says it’s a toy gun technically but there’s no indicator in smash that says that.

His neutral is just “Gun” which I feel basically confirms the old rule isn’t exactly relevant any longer. I mean we also got Bayonetta who uses guns within the 14 years since Sakurai said something about Guns. And that’s another problem. That rule is 14-16 years old by this point.
I feel like with it being just a pistol i think it might be easier to slip through the esrb while things like shotgun or rifles may have a harder time doing that
Eternal_SSG_Concept_Art.jpg

Though looking at it super shotgun could potentially as a bayonetta style or a futuristic gun barely though there might be an issue where the gun fires actual bullets
 

Dinoman96

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It just feel super weird that Shovel Knight didn't get a mii costume. I mean Im fine if it at all means Shantae has more chanes for playable status, but he just seemed like an easy pick.
TBF there's lots of AT characters that could of worked as Mii Fighter outfit. Swordfighter alone could of gotten Krystal, Ghirahim, Lyn, Shovel Knight, Prince of Sable, Alucard, etc. But alas.
 

Gengar84

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On the subject of Microsoft related shooters, what does everyone think about Joanna Dark and Marcus Fenix? They aren’t quite as big as Master Chief and Doomguy so I understand why they aren’t brought up much but I think both have a lot of potential as possible characters down the line.

There is a new Perfect Dark game in development so Joanna will probably gain a bit of relevance when that comes out. She is probably the least iconic of the four but she does have the strongest history with Nintendo so that might help her chances.
 
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Dinoman96

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On the subject of Microsoft related shooters, what does everyone think about Joanna Dark and Marcus Fenix? They aren’t quite as big as Master Chief and Doomguy so I understand why they aren’t brought up much but I think both have a lot of potential as possible characters down the line.
Ignoring their likelyhood...

I think Joanna Dark would be neat due to obviously being another long lost N64 Rare friend (though unlike Banjo, PD was never really owned by Nintendo), one that also isn't just a cartoon animal mascot, which would really emphasize how diverse Rare's lineup was in the 90s. PD was actually the first original Rare IP to even get repped in Smash, as its Proximity Bomb appeared in the JP version of Melee.

Marcus Fenix...I don't really feel anything towards because I just don't feel anything towards Gears of War.
 

Gengar84

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Ignoring their likelyhood...

I think Joanna Dark would be neat due to obviously being another long lost N64 Rare friend (though unlike Banjo, PD was never really owned by Nintendo), one that also isn't just a cartoon animal mascot, which would really emphasize how diverse Rare's lineup was in the 90s. PD was actually the first original Rare IP to even get repped in Smash, as its Proximity Bomb appeared in the JP version of Melee.

Marcus Fenix...I don't really feel anything towards because I just don't feel anything towards Gears of War.
Yeah, being primarily a Nintendo fan my whole life, I’m a lot more attached to Joanna Dark and RARE in general than the rest of Microsoft, including Gears. I never really played much Gears myself because the only time I’ve ever owned an X-Box was just the beginning of 360 when it was getting JRPGs. Still, Marcus has a pretty cool and unique look and Gears is definitely a big enough series to warrant some discussion I would think.
 

Diddy Kong

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I expect Sakurai won't direct the next installment.
In case we get a Ultimate DX, I don't think he will. It will probably be the Nintendo executives who chose the newcomers of the Fighter Passes.

If they make a new Smash game, I think Sakurai will be mostly the executive and creative director, and have a team of other directors beside him. The last interview sort of implied that the man thinks he's too burdened with his influence alone.
 

Al-kīmiyā'

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Nah, he'll always keep coming back as long as Nintendo asks him to.
I hope not.
My prediction is that Sakurai will still be involved in the next Smash but possibly as more of a supervisory role and let the rest of the team do a lot more of the actual work. I can’t imagine a Smash where Sakurai is completely absent.
It's easy. Just imagine Smash, but better.
 

Gengar84

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I hope not.

It's easy. Just imagine Smash, but better.
I’m not sure I agree with that. I enjoy Smash a lot more than other platform fighters like PSABR, TMNT Smash Up, and Nick All-Stars I think Sakurai has a lot to do with why Smash has consistently been so good this whole time even if there is still room for improvement.
 
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Diddy Kong

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Sakurai is a creative genius. Just see how he went to hell and back to ensure the biggest fan demands with Smash Ultimate. Ultimate is Smash Bros. fan service The Game. He literally took all the biggest popular characters of the ballot and made them a reality. I haven't experienced a game as full of direct fan service as Smash Ultimate honestly.

About Bandana Dee, and his absence in Ultimate, yes it's a glaring missing hole in the roster. I feel the same about Dixie / Cranky and Impa. Tom Nook and Octolings also could be added here, and of course any version of Toad. But it's clear to see why they missed the boat, Sakurai added the most requested characters of the fan base instead. That's forgivable. I

n Smash 4, for example, we all sort of "expected" Dixie to happen, but as DKC fans most of us said that if we had the choice we'd rather see K.Rool. Sure , most of us wanted both! But if it came down to it, most would've picked K.Rool over Dixie. In general the cut veterans also scored higher than any popular request that wasn't a base game or DLC newcomer. Even the Echo Fighters where hugely popular requests...

Smash will probably diminish in quality without Sakuari. But I'll agree that the man could use some serious help with his work.
 

Gengar84

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Do you guys think the popularity of Master Chief and Doomguy has any impact on the chances of other primary gun users like Bill Rizer and Shionne? I know we have tons of sword users already but I’m not sure they would want to add so many characters with the same weapon in one game. Neither Bill or Shionne are from FPS games but I’m curious just how much overlap they would have in a platform fighter like Smash.
 
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Diddy Kong

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I personally don't feel anything for Master Chief or Doom Guy honestly.

I also don't think they're all that necessary to be honest. Something about FPS games and platforming fighting games just doesn't seem to mix with me, like, at all. And yes I know there's tons of different types of characters, and how Duck Hunt could "technically" count for one (but not really), but there has to be some sort of limit to this. Unless we're all comfortable having sports characters in Smash eventually?

This is also another reason I don't think Tetris is fit for a playable characters, just use Lip instead and have a Tetris stage and Assist Trophy. Not everything needs to be "represented" in Smash just because it's the biggest crossover game in gaming yet. It'll have to make sense. FPS, sports games, puzzle games as Tetris are things that just don't fit for me.
 

Trevenant

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I personally don't feel anything for Master Chief or Doom Guy honestly.

I also don't think they're all that necessary to be honest. Something about FPS games and platforming fighting games just doesn't seem to mix with me, like, at all. And yes I know there's tons of different types of characters, and how Duck Hunt could "technically" count for one (but not really), but there has to be some sort of limit to this. Unless we're all comfortable having sports characters in Smash eventually?

This is also another reason I don't think Tetris is fit for a playable characters, just use Lip instead and have a Tetris stage and Assist Trophy. Not everything needs to be "represented" in Smash just because it's the biggest crossover game in gaming yet. It'll have to make sense. FPS, sports games, puzzle games as Tetris are things that just don't fit for me.
To be fair, Smash's ability to adapt all these different genres in ways that are appropriate whilst adhering to the current gameplay is probably one of the best parts of a new character being added... Less about seeing everything represented and more so if something isn't represented, then it's likely gonna fall under the "everything" moniker even though the more important part of wanting a lot of them is cos they could be legitimately interesting to see incorporated into smash
 

Wonder Smash

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I personally don't feel anything for Master Chief or Doom Guy honestly.

I also don't think they're all that necessary to be honest. Something about FPS games and platforming fighting games just doesn't seem to mix with me, like, at all. And yes I know there's tons of different types of characters, and how Duck Hunt could "technically" count for one (but not really), but there has to be some sort of limit to this. Unless we're all comfortable having sports characters in Smash eventually?

This is also another reason I don't think Tetris is fit for a playable characters, just use Lip instead and have a Tetris stage and Assist Trophy. Not everything needs to be "represented" in Smash just because it's the biggest crossover game in gaming yet. It'll have to make sense. FPS, sports games, puzzle games as Tetris are things that just don't fit for me.
I really don't see how. You fight in a FPS game. Gun fight but still, that's just fighting using projectiles, which have always been featured in fighting games, including platform fighters. I don't get how this somehow doesn't fit in Smash.
 
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