Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Trevenant]

I thought it would be clear from context that I was referring to the people who have been talking about potential moves for BWD in the past two or three pages.

I looked at his latest vids which were for Waluigi... Still, pretty neat but talking about moves for BWD is really a non-issue imo... I'd argue his moveset writes itself better than pretty much every other first party addition and most third parties TBH... Almost like how it's easy picking moves for the fighting game characters, except way easier cos you don't need to incorporate input commands etc... It's pretty obvious why... He's such a perfect fit that he's probably a little too basic to me...

 

[Among Waddle Dees]

I don't see why not for Bandana Dee. Who else are they gonna add? Marx? Adeleine?

Is this supposed to be satire? Because I'd legitimately take those characters over Bandana Dee in some cases.

 

[Sucumbio]

BWD is more like Toad than Luigi to me. And I think smash needs to include both. I can't honestly think of any other characters that either franchise is missing that aren't seen constantly in their respective games and it just seems like a lot of reasons for not including them don't hold water anymore if those reasons ever even did.

 

[Geno Boost]

I don't see why not for Bandana Dee. Who else are they gonna add? Marx? Adeleine?

Personally I want Daroach the most as I grew up with Kirby squeak squad and many other Kirby characters would excite me more than Bandana Dee.
I get he is important just like Toad and Impa but these type of characters don’t really excite me.

 

[Wonder Smash]

I think an fps rep is almost guranteed for the next game though im leaning towards doomslayer however if his guns are too realistic to be in smash than i think sakurai would choose chief over doonslayer

If we're going by the recent games, Doom Slayer's guns are definitely not too realistic. I don't think there would be any problems with that.

 

[Dinoman96]

Personally, especially with both characters being owned by Microsoft now, I kinda think Master Chief would be first in line considering just how more popular and well known Halo is, more so than Doomguy and DOOM even. I know DOOM has been around longer and obviously is the one with actual games on Nintendo, but well...you could say the same thing regarding Dragon Quest, pre-VII Final Fantasy, and SMT, and yet we still got Cloud before Hero or any of the FF-FFVI characters, and we got Joker before literally any SMT character.

I think the DLC lineup for Smash 4, Ultimate and hell, even Snake all the way back in Brawl show that Nintendo and Sakurai don't care that much about seniority and/or association with their consoles as much as they do just getting the most popular and mainstream characters from each company. The only real exceptions in that regard are the big fan requests, like Banjo and Bayonetta. So in that sense I think Doomguy or really any other Microsoft owned character's best hope are this point is for them to have more specific fan demand over Chief, like how we got Banjo before Steve.

 

[Sucumbio]

The more I think about it the more I wonder how a FPS rep would work in Smash and not be better suited as a mii gunner costume (assuming miis are even a thing on the next console). Does anyone have any ideas? Definitely drawing a blank for a moveset that isn't already a copy of mii gunners or Samus...

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

The more I think about it the more I wonder how a FPS rep would work in Smash and not be better suited as a mii gunner costume (assuming miis are even a thing on the next console). Does anyone have any ideas? Definitely drawing a blank for a moveset that isn't already a copy of mii gunners or Samus...

It would be interesting to have one use a shotgun that is powerful and has a big hitbox up close but weak farther away. I don't really want super realistic firearms in Smash, though.

 

[SPEN18]

Gonna disagree with people saying that the Forgotten Land trailer bumps Bandana Dee up to the likes of DeDeDe or Meta Knight (or even other memorable Kirby adversaries like Nightmare, Dark Matter, Marx, Magolor, etc.).

Like, Meta Knight could be just a boss but still be a more story-important and memorable part of the game than the defacto player 2; we don't know yet if Dee will have anything more than a passing role in the story. Granted, the plot in FL seems to be centered around saving Waddle Dees but the Bandana himself might not do anything more than tag along for the ride. I'll also point out that Meta Knight appearing at the very end of the trailer could turn out to be a tease at some kind of largish role for him. Besides this, Meta Knight and DeDeDe in particular would still have a longer history of plot-important roles and general notoriety.

Characters like Marx, Magolor, etc. are also arguably more interesting and memorable for what they do in the instances that they do it, even though those instances are rarer. Marx's boss fight in Super Star alone is more iconic and more flush with personality and interesting capabilities than anything Dee does like ever. Yes, Dee does absolutely get points for having more playable appearances, but this is far from the only consideration. Just cuz. say. Sharla is playable in XC doesn't make her a more notable character overall than someone like Metal Face.

 

[Dinoman96]

In Master Chief's case I'd imagine his moveset in Smash would primarily be based around Covenant weaponry: plasma rifles, carbines, needlers, energy swords, gravity hammers, beam rifles, etc. All of the more fantastical sci-fi weapons that would fit just fine in Smash. Of course like Snake, he could also have some of the UNSC explosives, like the rocket launcher and grenades.

Outside of weapons there's also other gimmicks/mechanics they can give him, like spartan abilities or even more recently, the grappleshot they introduced in Halo Infinite, which gives him a tether/Z-grab of his own.

 

[Wonder Smash]

The more I think about it the more I wonder how a FPS rep would work in Smash and not be better suited as a mii gunner costume (assuming miis are even a thing on the next console). Does anyone have any ideas? Definitely drawing a blank for a moveset that isn't already a copy of mii gunners or Samus...

An idea I have for Doom Slayer would be the ability to switch guns during gameplay and give them limited ammo that would slowly fill up over time. Plus, even if his guns are similar to the Mii gunners, they could still be executed differently during gameplay (some can be stronger, some can be faster) and can be used for different attacks.

Also, Miis are definitely here to stay.

 

[Sucumbio]

Gonna disagree with people saying that the Forgotten Land trailer bumps Bandana Dee up to the likes of DeDeDe or Meta Knight (or even other memorable Kirby adversaries like Nightmare, Dark Matter, Marx, Magolor, etc.).

Like, Meta Knight could be just a boss but still be a more story-important and memorable part of the game than the defacto player 2; we don't know yet if Dee will have anything more than a passing role in the story. Granted, the plot in FL seems to be centered around saving Waddle Dees but the Bandana himself might not do anything more than tag along for the ride. I'll also point out that Meta Knight appearing at the very end of the trailer could turn out to be a tease at some kind of largish role for him. Besides this, Meta Knight and DeDeDe in particular would still have a longer history of plot-important roles and general notoriety.

Characters like Marx, Magolor, etc. are also arguably more interesting and memorable for what they do in the instances that they do it, even though those instances are rarer. Marx's boss fight in Super Star alone is more iconic and more flush with personality and interesting capabilities than anything Dee does like ever. Yes, Dee does absolutely get points for having more playable appearances, but this is far from the only consideration. Just cuz. say. Sharla is playable in XC doesn't make her a more notable character overall than someone like Metal Face.

I dunno about the trailer necessarily giving him an on-par level of "worthiness" but I also don't believe such a metric is important. Like fwiw yeah mk, ddd have had numerous appearance and even major roles in the animated series. But this aside I feel bwd's popularity within fan spaces, his legacy of demand going back to the ballot and perhaps even prior, and his more frequent playable appearance in titles makes him a stronger candidate over other potential reps. I'm not against other reps, mind. But I do think it's definitely a strong case for him, maybe even stronger than Toad who is playable in fewer games.

 

[Slime Scholar]

I have to think that the people downplaying Waddle Dee, especially the “hat goomba” crowd, are people who play Kirby games alone and/or don’t touch the spin-offs.

Not saying this to knock on anyone but he’s been a part of the Kirby multiplayer ensemble for a while now and has had more playable appearances than a lost of Smash fighters. I dunno if I’d put him on the level of Dedede or Meta Knight but that’s a high bar to clear given how important those characters are. And it’s clear Waddle Dee isn’t going anywhere. I think if any other Kirby rep deserves a shot it’s him by a country mile.

 

[Shroob]

So the spirit event is tonight, right?



Timezones are confusing.

 

[Sucumbio]

So the spirit event is tonight, right?



Timezones are confusing.

1 am Friday est

 

[Shroob]

1 am Friday est

So about 5 hours from now.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Just cuz. say. Sharla is playable in XC doesn't make her a more notable character overall than someone like Metal Face.

But she is. Sharla has several arcs she goes through and is with you for most of the game.

Metal Face isn't alive for half the game, wtf?!?

The only reason Metal Face is in Guar Plain, is that he's the only one that makes sense as a stage hazard.

 

[Simnm]

If we're going by the recent games, Doom Slayer's guns are definitely not too realistic. I don't think there would be any problems with that.

Yeah but his super shotgun is a very realistic gun and and i dont think you are representing him the best if yoy exclude his most iconic weapon in smash

 

[Will]

Is this supposed to be satire? Because I'd legitimately take those characters over Bandana Dee in some cases.

Eh, I can understand wanting someone else over the popular pick. I'd rather have Mallow than Geno. He's just a cool little fella.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Yeah but his super shotgun is a very realistic gun and and i dont think you are representing him the best if yoy exclude his most iconic weapon in smash

Quake III (which Doomguy also appears in)'s shotgun has some sci-fi elements in its design

(top is Q3 shotgun, bottom is Q3 rocket launcher)

 

[chocolatejr9]

Eh, I can understand wanting someone else over the popular pick. I'd rather have Mallow than Geno. He's just a cool little fella.

Now that you mention it, why isn't Mallow more popular? He goes through an actual ARC in the game. Meanwhile, all Geno does is show up, steal a kid's toy, explain who the bad guys are, and tag along with Mario like a freeloader.

That's probably a poor explaination of Geno's role, as I've never played SMRPG, so I apoligize if I screwed that up...

 

[Will]

I missed the topic of Xenoblade a little earlier but I want to go on a tangent here:

Why aren't the rest of the party added to Chain Attack? Them adding Fiora was fanservice but it also completely erases the commitment to the source material by removing the element of Chain Attacks only being between a party of three. They all have things to do.

Sharla can both bust a cap to your opponent and also have RNG-based rolls on her buff/support Arts. Just some ideas:

• Heal Bullet/Blast: Heals Shulk by varying percentage. Lowest is 12%, highest is 50%.
• Heal Round: Heals Shulk but also spawns an open Healing Field onto the stage. Heals 30%.
• Heat Bullet: Hero's Oomph but now on Shulk
• Aura Bullet: Shulk's Monado Arts have an extended lifespan of three seconds. This buff lasts for 30 in-game seconds.

I want Melia as an assist tbqh. She's got a lot of potential as one, and I think seeing how Krystal's Assist functions creates a good base for how she would attack with Elementals and Ether Arts. Also, she would definitely have a super move like Spring Man/Knuckle Joe/Zoroark using Mind Blast. But as a Final Smash assist, I think certain Elementals can grant debuffs on the opponent based on, once again, RNG rolls for which Art she uses:

• Summon Earth: Inflicts poison damage, similar to Piranha Plant or Joker's side-special.
• Summon Aqua: Spawns a Healing Sprout on Shulk; adaptation of XC's HP Absorpotion property
• Summon Ice: Freezes the opponent after the cinematic.

The other Arts would also be used as standard projectiles with no side-effect, but they each deal slightly different amounts of damage. Summon Wind's elemental does the least. Summon Fire's elemental is between the weakest and the strongest. Summon Bolt's is the strongest.

And Reyn? He uh... attacks. He just says the funny lines that are just puns on his own name. Thanks for reading my fanfiction.

 

[SPEN18]

I feel bwd's popularity within fan spaces, his legacy of demand going back to the ballot and perhaps even prior, and his more frequent playable appearance in titles makes him a stronger candidate over other potential reps. I'm not against other reps, mind. But I do think it's definitely a strong case for him, maybe even stronger than Toad who is playable in fewer games.

Back in the ballot days I think a lot of Dee's popularity was just conflated with desires for another Kirby rep and somehow evolved into people actually liking Dee himself. Of course, you can't discount popularity just by speculating on its origin, so I'm not going to argue based on that; however, I think it still stands that the general Nintendo audience would be equally excited for some number of the other Kirby options besides Dee if they were to join Smash.

Also Toad is playable in numerous spinoffs including the biggest ones like Kart, which maybe don't count as much as mainline Mario games but he has had playable appearances in some of those, too. Neither is the star character in basically any of their appearances but Toad does have Treasure Tracker. Toad is way more recognizable and iconic, and has been at least equally relevant for even longer than Dee.

--

has had more playable appearances than a lost of Smash fighters.

Maybe this is an indication that raw number of playable appearances isn't the only factor to consider.

--

But she is. Sharla has several arcs she goes through and is with you for most of the game.

Metal Face isn't alive for half the game, wtf?!?

The only reason Metal Face is in Guar Plain, is that he's the only one that makes sense as a stage hazard.

You can hate on the example, but the point was that sometimes non-playable characters, especially important adversaries and such, can be more important and more iconic than certain secondary playable characters. Maybe a better example would be K. Rool being more important to DK 64 than a character like Lanky Kong. Nonetheless, I argue for Metal Face below (with spoilers for XC1, of course).

Metal Face drives a lot of the early game plot and motivations for Shulk + co. Most of what Sharla does, in the grand scheme of things, is pretty minor and the bulk of the story would (or at least could easily) be the same if she wasn't in it. There is the stuff with Gadolt but functionally this is mostly just to enhance the emotional gravity of the story, and Shulk's party could still have come to the painful realization that people are being put into Mechon without having a direct personal connection to the man in the machine. IMO it's nothing compared to what Metal Face does to Fiora, which is like the whole impetus for the first half of the plot. Yes, Sharla does get a lot of character development and interactions with the rest of the cast as the game goes along but it doesn't amount to her being an important character.

Also they could have very easily (in fact, more easily) made a Gaur Plain stage or another XC1 stage without Metal Face or any other stage boss (or one with a different stage boss, or one with a Sharla cameo). He's there because he was important and memorable.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

I think it still stands that the general Nintendo audience would be equally excited for some number of the other Kirby options besides Dee if they were to join Smash.

Who is the general Nintendo audience? Do you mean people who haven't played Kirby games much? If so, that's not much of a point against BWD. "People who are unfamiliar with this franchise would be equally excited for anyone from it" isn't very compelling.

 

[Sid-cada]

SPEN18

I'm just going to quote the current director of Kirby, Shinya Kumazaki, on his thoughts on Bandana Dee. The following comes from Kirby Star Allies Vol. 2: Interview Direct from Yamanashi Part 2 (from the May 2018 issue).

Q. Why did you decide to make Bandana Waddle Dee, who doesn’t appear in the story, appear as a Dream Friend?

Kumazaki: There are many kinds of Waddle Dees, such as Waddle Dees with a spear, Waddle Dees riding Nruffs, and Waddle Dees flying with cotton wool, but I thought that recognition would increase if they became player characters. So with Bandana Waddle Dee, I’m trying to make the Waddle Dee character a recognizable one (laughs). Originally, when I was working on “Return to Dream Land”, I thought that I wanted to have King Dedede, Meta Knight, and one other character who would be a staple in the “Kirby” world, so I made Bandana Waddle Dee appear as a representative from the Waddle Dee family.

At first I thought about giving him a unique name, like “Bandee” (バンディ) for example, but I wanted to raise Waddle Dee’s awareness rather than promote his name, so I decided to simply call him “Bandana Waddle Dee”. In “Triple Deluxe” and “Planet Robobot”, I made it clear that Waddle Dee was an ally by assisting Kirby through StreetPass, and in “Battle Royale” he appears as Kirby’s sidekick character.

In essence, he was created to act as a representative of the most popular generic enemies of the Kirby franchise, who were recognizable in their own right. When the director says your a staple of the franchise, that has to count for something, right?

 

[dream1ng]

BWD can become as prominent as he wants in the series, the problem was always more Sakurai than that. The character is going to have to find a way around the barricade Sakurai has erected which relegates things that he didn't do for the series lucky to slip through the cracks, especially as far as substantial representation goes.

 

[Wonder Smash]

Yeah but his super shotgun is a very realistic gun and and i dont think you are representing him the best if yoy exclude his most iconic weapon in smash

But a Super Shotgun is not even a real gun, nor does it even look like one in Doom Eternal. So it can still be used in Smash.

 

[SPEN18]

Who is the general Nintendo audience? Do you mean people who haven't played Kirby games much? If so, that's not much of a point against BWD. "People who are unfamiliar with this franchise would be equally excited for anyone from it" isn't very compelling.

I mean, I could argue that people who haven't played Kirby games much are going to be generally more excited over a wackier choice like Marx over a comparatively bland one like Dee; of course, if I thought Dee was clearly more important/iconic then it wouldn't matter but I don't really think that.

Out of the people who play Kirby games, it's fair to think that someone is going to remember a primary antagonist more than what is typically the 4P character, especially if they're mostly playing solo or just with one friend on occasion.

So I do think that most people who play Kirby games would be equally excited for another Kirby rep vs. Dee, yes.

--

In essence, he was created to act as a representative of the most popular generic enemies of the Kirby franchise, who were recognizable in their own right. When the director says your a staple of the franchise, that has to count for something, right?

Yes, it absolutely does count for something. I'm not like totally against Dee or anything but prefer other choices. The quote you gave sets up Dee as a recurring sidekick, which again does count for something but not enough for me to think he's more important to the series than the alternatives, which are arguably just as recognizable and more memorable for what they do in the games they appear in. I don't want to slip too far into hat Goomba territory but it's true that a character can be both recognizable and commonly appearing but still come up short relative to alternatives within their own franchise. To a certain extent it's villains vs. sidekicks, or old vs. new Kirby preferences as well.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I think it’s just really weird that Fiora, despite being added to Shulk’s Final Smash, has no voice lines

they coulda also made her appear in one of his victory screens a la Chrom with Robin, or an Assist Trophy, but they didn’t. Not even a Mii costume!

TL;DR - Fiora got done dirtier than Smash4!Chrom don’t @ me

 

[Slime Scholar]

Maybe this is an indication that raw number of playable appearances isn't the only factor to consider.

Well sure, never suggested otherwise.

If you want to use who isn’t in Smash already as a criteria for who should be in— and fair enough— Marx and Magolor aren’t fighters either and there are even fewer fighters like them in the roster, which very much skews toward characters who are playable in their own series and ones that appear in multiple games.

 

[SPEN18]

If you want to use who isn’t in Smash already as a criteria for who should be in— and fair enough— Marx and Magolor aren’t fighters either and there are even fewer fighters like them in the roster, which very much skews toward characters who are playable in their own series and ones that appear in multiple games.

Well, to be fair, I have said before here how much I disagree with many of the roster choices, so there's only a certain extent to which I'd use the current roster as a basis for an argument. Take that previous comment of mine as more of a playful stab at your argument than a serious argument of my own, I guess lol.

There are many characters in the roster, though, who have relatively few playable appearances or at the very least are more well-known for their non-playable appearances, which often take the form of iconic boss fights. Marx and Magolor do have multiple appearances including a playable one now anyway, although these aren't the main basis for an argument on their inclusion.

 

[Sid-cada]

I mean, I could argue that people who haven't played Kirby games much are going to be generally more excited over a wackier choice like Marx over a comparatively bland one like Dee; of course, if I thought Dee was clearly more important/iconic then it wouldn't matter but I don't really think that.

Out of the people who play Kirby games, it's fair to think that someone is going to remember a primary antagonist more than what is typically the 4P character, especially if they're mostly playing solo or just with one friend on occasion.

So I do think that most people who play Kirby games would be equally excited for another Kirby rep vs. Dee, yes.

Let me put into perspective how popular Waddle Dees as a whole are.

In 2017, HAL Labs teamed up with one of their licensed merchandise providers to run a poll on the most popular Kirby enemy. The winner would receive merchandise based around them. The poll results were as follows:

Waddle Dee (1,351)
Magolor (614)
Gordo (608)
Maruku* (593)
Kracko (455)
Daroach (434)
Waddle Doo (310)
Whispy Woods (282)
Susie (191)
Taranza (179)

*Maruku is Marx's Japanese name.

As can be scene, Waddle Dees were so popular, they got over twice as many votes as second place, beating out many characters that would be considered "more important" than them.

As Bandanna Dee was officially made to be their representative, adding him in would clearly please a lot of Kirby fans.

To a certain extent it's villains vs. sidekicks, or old vs. new Kirby preferences as well.

I find that funny at how this reflects commentary on how Kirby fans feel about Smash.

Overall, many Kirby fans have a somewhat mixed feeling about Smashed, due to growing resentment over how Smash treats Kirby. Most Kirby fans feel Sakurai panders too hard to older Kirby games, ignoring the majority of Kirby games that did not involve him in a major role. This not only applies to more modern games, but other older Kirby games that didn't involve him as well, most prominently the Dark Matter Trilogy.

Sakurai has even felt the need to defend himself on occasion about his choices after receiving too many complaints about this. We know that Sakurai felt the need to defend his decision to include the Great Cave Offensive stage in "For WiiU" after backlash over not including a stage based on something other than Super Star. According to him, he had plans for an Epic Yarn stage but canned it in favor of a Yoshi's Woolly World stage. (Most Kirby fans don't like this reasoning, by the way).

Many Kirby fans who want more modern Kirby representation hope that by adding Bandanna Waddle Dee, Sakurai would be forced to acknowledge more modern content that he seems reluctant to do. It's to the point where I think "Sakurai bias" has become Bandanna Waddle Dee fan's "too big," possibly eclipsing "hat goomba" in terms of perceived obstacles in the fandom.

As for me personally? I do want Dee, and do think Sakurai has a noticeable bias against games he didn't make. However, I don't think just adding Dee will solve that problem alone. I do hope that Forgotten Land will be able to change Sakurai's mind, however. If he can't even properly acknowledge a leap to 3D, I'm not certain if it's even posible to change his mind on this, and Dee will probably have to wait until someone else takes over.

 

[Shroob]

Btw the Evil Ryu spirit event is up.


Kinda funny seeing there be 2 spots both with the same Spirit on the Spirit Board. It doesn't even Enhance at 99, so getting more than 1 is pointless.

 

[SPEN18]

Let me put into perspective how popular Waddle Dees as a whole are.

In 2017, HAL Labs teamed up with one of their licensed merchandise providers to run a poll on the most popular Kirby enemy. The winner would receive merchandise based around them. The poll results were as follows:

Waddle Dee (1,351)
Magolor (614)
Gordo (608)
Maruku* (593)
Kracko (455)
Daroach (434)
Waddle Doo (310)
Whispy Woods (282)
Susie (191)
Taranza (179)

*Maruku is Marx's Japanese name.

As can be scene, Waddle Dees were so popular, they got over twice as many votes as second place, beating out many characters that would be considered "more important" than them.

As Bandanna Dee was officially made to be their representative, adding him in would clearly please a lot of Kirby fans.



I find that funny at how this reflects commentary on how Kirby fans feel about Smash.

Overall, many Kirby fans have a somewhat mixed feeling about Smashed, due to growing resentment over how Smash treats Kirby. Most Kirby fans feel Sakurai panders too hard to older Kirby games, ignoring the majority of Kirby games that did not involve him in a major role. This not only applies to more modern games, but other older Kirby games that didn't involve him as well, most prominently the Dark Matter Trilogy.

Sakurai has even felt the need to defend himself on occasion about his choices after receiving too many complaints about this. We know that Sakurai felt the need to defend his decision to include the Great Cave Offensive stage in "For WiiU" after backlash over not including a stage based on something other than Super Star. According to him, he had plans for an Epic Yarn stage but canned it in favor of a Yoshi's Woolly World stage. (Most Kirby fans don't like this reasoning, by the way).

Many Kirby fans who want more modern Kirby representation hope that by adding Bandanna Waddle Dee, Sakurai would be forced to acknowledge more modern content that he seems reluctant to do. It's to the point where I think "Sakurai bias" has become Bandanna Waddle Dee fan's "too big," possibly eclipsing "hat goomba" in terms of perceived obstacles in the fandom.

As for me personally? I do want Dee, and do think Sakurai has a noticeable bias against games he didn't make. However, I don't think just adding Dee will solve that problem alone. I do hope that Forgotten Land will be able to change Sakurai's mind, however. If he can't even properly acknowledge a leap to 3D, I'm not certain if it's even posible to change his mind on this, and Dee will probably have to wait until someone else takes over.

First of all, that's a fairly small poll. Even if you take the results seriously, I've already conceded that Dee is more popular as a request than the Kirby alternatives. But that actually doesn't necessarily equate to an appreciably better fan reaction to Dee's inclusion: maybe most of the people who voted for Dee in that poll also like Magolor but just like Dee a little bit better. What I was alluding to before is that I don't think most Dee fans are actively against the other reps, and would probably even be welcoming to them. The bigger point is that I just don't see a Marx or Magolor reveal going over poorly with the vast majority of Kirby and/or Smash fans. The two main things Dee has over other Kirby characters are popularity and a series of largely minor playable roles; I concede that both have their worth but not to the extent that they override choosing an overall more interesting and plot-important character that is arguably just as or more iconic.

--

And yes I am aware of the argument for more stuff from non-Sakurai Kirby. But why represent those games with a character who isn't even that important to them? I can understand asking for more stages, music, etc. from such games, though.

I can add that I am also probably biased towards Super Star to an extent but that shouldn't be a reason to disregard what I'm saying!

 

[DarthEnderX]

It would be interesting to have one use a shotgun that is powerful and has a big hitbox up close but weak farther away.

But a Super Shotgun is not even a real gun

Super Shotgun is just a sawed-off double-barrel shotgun. Which is a real thing.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I don’t think the real gun thing really matters anymore after Joker. And yes, I’ve played Persona 5 I know that contextual lore says it’s a toy gun technically but there’s no indicator in smash that says that.

His neutral is just “Gun” which I feel basically confirms the old rule isn’t exactly relevant any longer. I mean we also got Bayonetta who uses guns within the 14 years since Sakurai said something about Guns. And that’s another problem. That rule is 14-16 years old by this point.

 

[Gengar84]

Who is the general Nintendo audience? Do you mean people who haven't played Kirby games much? If so, that's not much of a point against BWD. "People who are unfamiliar with this franchise would be equally excited for anyone from it" isn't very compelling.

I’ve been a Kirby fan since Superstar on the SNES and my most wanted Kirby character is Bugzzy. Bandana Dee would be fine too but he doesn’t really excite me personally.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Super Shotgun is just a sawed-off double-barrel shotgun. Which is a real thing.

Who's that?

I don’t think the real gun thing really matters anymore after Joker. And yes, I’ve played Persona 5 I know that contextual lore says it’s a toy gun technically but there’s no indicator in smash that says that.

His neutral is just “Gun” which I feel basically confirms the old rule isn’t exactly relevant any longer. I mean we also got Bayonetta who uses guns within the 14 years since Sakurai said something about Guns. And that’s another problem. That rule is 14-16 years old by this point.

I was expressing my preference for the game.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I don’t think the real gun thing really matters anymore after Joker. And yes, I’ve played Persona 5 I know that contextual lore says it’s a toy gun technically but there’s no indicator in smash that says that.

His neutral is just “Gun” which I feel basically confirms the old rule isn’t exactly relevant any longer. I mean we also got Bayonetta who uses guns within the 14 years since Sakurai said something about Guns. And that’s another problem. That rule is 14-16 years old by this point.

Sakurai also stated something about knives, and them not being part of Snake's moveset in Brawl because in some cultures they would be perceived as more violent than others. Ironically, Joker also is the one character that changed this.

... It IS a knife that Joker uses as a weapon right ?

 

[osby]

Sakurai also stated something about knives, and them not being part of Snake's moveset in Brawl because in some cultures they would be perceived as more violent than others. Ironically, Joker also is the one character that changed this.

Did Sakurai ever said that? Just asking to be sure because I couldn't find him saying anything about knives after a quick search.

... It IS a knife that Joker uses as a weapon right ?

It's his starting weapon, so yes. Later, you can buy daggers but it's not like those are better.