Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[SPEN18]

As a Mother fan and longtime Ness main, I have to agree that the series is overvalued by Smash fans.
They're excellent games, and even get attention on lists of top Nintendo/SNES/RPG/etc. lists. But honestly I wouldn't really complain if it had a bit less representation; I consider it a pretty fortunate series.

 

[DarthEnderX]

1 resident evil (154mil)
2 monster hunter(97mil)
3 dark souls (35mil)
4 Frogger (33mil)
5 devil may cry (30mil)
6 tales (29mil)
7 nintendogs (27mil)
8 Puyo Puyo (25mil)
9 Like a dragon (21mil)
10 Super robot wars (20mil)

1. Yes please!
2. Sure, why not.
3. Sure, why not.
4. No thanks.
5. Yes please!
6. Sure, why not.
7. No thanks.
8. No thanks.
9. Yes please!
10. SRW is extremely 4P.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

hmmm.

im gonna see what the 10 best selling Japanese series are that aren't in smash with a character not counting games that would not fit via smashes rules

1 resident evil (154mil)
2 monster hunter(97mil)
3 dark souls (35mil)
4 Frogger (33mil)
5 devil may cry (30mil)
6 tales (29mil)
7 nintendogs (27mil)
8 Puyo Puyo (25mil)
9 Like a dragon (21mil)
10 Super robot wars (20mil)



skipped Efootball and power pros cause sports players
skipped brain age cause it features a real life neuroscientist
skipped simple cause i dont think it has characters
skipped warriors cause thats been mentioned to have historicle characters


this list is mostly outdated muck.
with some being more up to date

bomberman probably is up there but digital is not reported but that series has like 70 games im sure its hit 20mil.

layton, yo kai watch and inazuma eleven might be up there.

but in terms of big series left its mostly western ones at this point.

who keeps on buying frogger games

Where did you get the sales numbers for Puyo Puyo and Frogger? I’m not sure they are accurate.

 

[SpecterFlower]

anyway


1 resident evil (154mil)
2 monster hunter(97mil)
3 dark souls (35mil)
5 devil may cry (30mil)
6 tales (29mil)
8 Puyo Puyo (25mil)
9 Like a dragon (21mil)
? Bomberman
? Professor Layton
? Phoenix Wright
? NieR
? Trails/Ys

trails mostly due to its history similar to fatal fury.

but other than that im these are the most realistic choices remaining from japan.

i can also see ryu hayabusa or ryza from koei tecmo (dont discount atelier)

but these are i feel the remaining like noteworthy franchises japan has left for smash.

when going through all those series there were like 50 western ones above the rest of the japanese series except MH and RE

 

[DarthEnderX]

? Trails/Ys

Trails and Ys are not the same franchise.

Almost everything Falcom makes is technically a Dragon Slayer spinoff. But not Ys.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

You know Ryu Hayabusa is playable in the starting roster of every mainline Dead or Alive game. If you combine the sales of Ninja Gaiden and Dead or Alive I think it’s close to 20 million units sold

 

[Louie G.]

Where did you get the sales numbers for Puyo Puyo and Frogger? I’m not sure they are accurate.

Latest financial report clocks Puyo Puyo in at about 39 million. It apparently includes F2P installs, but this is the most recent statistic we have.

Worth noting, this also does not include statistics from any of Puyo’s 90s Compile releases since it was prior to Sega’s acquisition of the series. And those games were massive at the time, be it console ports or arcade machines. So this is a number that may be a bit difficult to pin down, but would probably be higher than 25 million.

 

[SPEN18]

Anyway, back to Krystal. I'd love to see her return in a big way, as there's still a ton of potential with her. Krystal, Lyn, and Midna are like the trifecta of 00's Nintendo gals who aren't in yet

 

[SpecterFlower]

Where did you get the sales numbers for Puyo Puyo and Frogger? I’m not sure they are accurate.

puyo puyo from
Sega Sammys ocotober 30th anual report
its been pretty hard to find, is entirely in japanese and got removed, otherwise the phsycial shipped is 9mil.
puyo puyo tetris is at 3mil
https://sites.google.com/site/gamedatalibrary/game-search?authuser=0 thats just japan
Include all the digital only games + madou monogatari
and the 9mil number makes no sense so i'd rather go with 25mil

but you can see it as a range between 9mil and 25 mil too i guess.

in general sega is awful at reporting sales

sonic hovers between 150 million and 1.4 billion software sales.

phantasay star 2 is nightmare to try and find that out as well.

and i just said screw it and put puyo up there, i kenw what i saw back then.

but when i tyr and find the press relase its gone so i cannot sourc eit, i cant ifnd it in the wayback machine or archive.org either so im just done.

momotaro densetuse is at 18mil and probably the next up after all these.




Frogger from

Konami's Frogger and Castlevania Nominated for Walk of Game Star

Press Release

web.archive.org

plus adding new releases.

EDIT:

Spoiler

Trails and Ys are not the same franchise.

Almost everything Falcom makes is technically a Dragon Slayer spinoff. But not Ys.

ik, i put it there are i think it would be similar to terry repping the entire company.

i really doubt falcom would get a second character so throw in ys and trails and hell tokyo xanadu

Latest financial report clocks Puyo Puyo in at about 39 million. It apparently includes F2P installs, but this is the most recent statistic we have.

Worth noting, this also does not include statistics from any of Puyo’s 90s Compile releases since it was prior to Sega’s acquisition of the series. And those games were massive at the time, be it console ports or arcade machines. So this is a number that may be a bit difficult to pin down, but would probably be higher than 25 million.

thanks.


i just hate segas way of saying numbers.

Nintendo is the 2nd best and capcom is the best.

nintendo just updates titles whenever they sell 1mil a year

capcom literally updates everything every year.

seriosly a bit oftopic but this is so nicwe, not having to scour the internet.

Game Series Sales |Product Data | CAPCOM

Total sales units of major titles such as "Resident Evil" and "Onimusha" are described.

www.capcom.co.jp

why cant sega be like this[SPOILER/]

 

[Ivander]

He was like…the one character that didn’t get into Warriors. I’m still pretty salty about that. ****ing edgy purple wind mage he’s so ****ing cool!

I mean, there were a couple other characters that could be labelled "That one character" by fans. Besides Vaati, there was also Groose and arguably Nayru and Din from Oracle of Ages & Seasons.

We need a new crossover-focused Hyrule Warriors game.

 

[kirbstr]

I feel like the favorite to be added in the next game is by far a Monster Hunter character. Its an extremely popular request, especially in japan, and already has a bunch of other crossover elements in the game. Reminds me a lot of how Animal Crossing was in Brawl before Villager got added in Smash 4.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

The fact that we never got a new Capcom character in Ultimate aside from Ken still boggles my mind.

 

[kirbstr]

The fact that we never got a new Capcom character in Ultimate aside from Ken still boggles my mind.

Phoenix Wright or Arthur would have been great additions.

 

[SpecterFlower]

The fact that we never got a new Capcom character in Ultimate aside from Ken still boggles my mind.

the biggest japanese game company other than Nintendo and nothing pretty much

 

[Arcanir]

Guys...

I think I just remembered a Brawl era request that aged worse than Masked Man.

Do you guys remmeber when Vaati was a big request?

Do half of you guys even remember Vaati exists? (He's so cool!)

That brings back memories, I can still remember all the arguments for him back in those days. Honestly, it's sad that he faded into obscurity as he was a cool villain, I wished they used him more.

 

[Lionfranky]

Okay, one, that is a fan take, not official stuff. Secondly, you can't use science to try to solve things in fiction, as the physics of fiction and reality and reality's science are different.

In other words, might as well just go with it.

900g is more of fan take. The link shows official materials to back up.

 

[Golden Icarus]

Is there a character that died harder than Balloon Fighter? He wasn’t a huge request, but I remember him being discussed plenty back during Brawl speculation and early Smash 4 speculation as one of the more highly considered “retro reps.”

Then the Smash 4 announcement trailer dropped and Villager’s Up-B was shown to be a direct reference to Balloon Fight. I don’t think he’s even been mildly discussed since.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Is there a character that died harder than Balloon Fighter? He wasn’t a huge request, but I remember him being discussed plenty back during Brawl speculation and early Smash 4 speculation as one of the more highly considered “retro reps.”

Then the Smash 4 announcement trailer dropped and Villager’s Up-B was shown to be a direct reference to Balloon Fight. I don’t think he’s even been mildly discussed since.

He was (unfortunately) propped up a bit for Ultimate in speculation as means to "honor Iwata".

 

[ninjahmos]

The fact that we never got a new Capcom character in Ultimate aside from Ken still boggles my mind.

Phoenix Wright or Arthur would have been great additions.

Or Strider Hiryu.

 

[SpecterFlower]

Is there a character that died harder than Balloon Fighter? He wasn’t a huge request, but I remember him being discussed plenty back during Brawl speculation and early Smash 4 speculation as one of the more highly considered “retro reps.”

Then the Smash 4 announcement trailer dropped and Villager’s Up-B was shown to be a direct reference to Balloon Fight. I don’t think he’s even been mildly discussed since.

in general i think retro reps fell off.

theres already 4-5 from Nintendo and a bunch of 3rd parties that are pretty much retro as well.

(the simon belmont part of castevania, og mega man before all the other stuff)

it doeskin really feel like there needs to be another especially with how contested smash spots are, what we have does a great job as it is.

add to that takemaru is a sword fighter with nothing unique.

and mach rider and excitbike literally only ride bikes getting an actual moveset might be more challenge then its worth to make feel good unique or interesting.

a clu clu land character would be weird,. considering how clu clu land's main characters are more well known for being in kirby than thier own game

tennis and the ohter sports games dont give much.

that guy from startropics might be cool i guess. america only though rip.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

A character I think is slept on is Chun-Li. She like the most iconic female video game character next to Peach and Lara Croft (she’s more iconic than Lara in Asia), and is in every single Capcom crossover game.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

A character I think is slept on is Chun-Li.

As much as I feel people overuse the notion that a character is "slept on" (and 9 times out of 10 that character doesn't actually make it)....

.....I wouldn't call someone who was propped up a ****ton after Sephiroth was revealed being "slept on".
No, people definitely DO NOT overlook Chun-Li whatsoever.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

As much as I feel people overuse the notion that a character is "slept on" (and 9 times out of 10 that character doesn't actually make it)....

.....I wouldn't call someone who was propped up a ****ton after Sephiroth was revealed being "slept on".
No, people definitely DO NOT overlook Chun-Li whatsoever.

I guess I didn’t see that, but even if that was the case back then is it still now? Maybe I’m blind from the eclipse. I definitely did see that for Eggman though.

and mach rider and excitbike literally only ride bikes getting an actual moveset might be more challenge then its worth to make feel good unique or interesting.

Part of me wishes Mach Rider was the Captain Falcon clone in Melee

 

[ninjahmos]

It still boggles me that Melee took only 13 months of development.

What do you think would have happened if they had been given 6 more months?

 

[SpecterFlower]

A character I think is slept on is Chun-Li. She like the most iconic female video game character next to Peach and Lara Croft (she’s more iconic than Lara in Asia), and is in every single Capcom crossover game.

A character I think is slept on is Chun-Li. She like the most iconic female video game character next to Peach and Lara Croft (she’s more iconic than Lara in Asia), and is in every single Capcom crossover game.

i dont think lara croft is in that category anymore, to irrelevant in modern times when tons of other vidoe game woman are out there.

its not that i don't think chun li is unlikely

but a 3rd street fighter character before a monster hunter character just isnt happening.

chun li has a lot of competition already and if they were to add a second character to a 3rd party franchise heres it's eggman
shes iconic but theres a lot going against her.

i think she has a solid chance, i jsut think others will come before her, both from capcom and in terms of secondary characters in a 3rd party series

 

[Lionfranky]

i dont think lara croft is in that category anymore, to irrelevant in modern times when tons of other vidoe game woman are out there.

its not that i don't think chun li is unlikely

but a 3rd street fighter character before a monster hunter character just isnt happening.

chun li has a lot of competition already and if they were to add a second character to a 3rd party franchise heres it's eggman
shes iconic but theres a lot going against her.

i think she has a solid chance, i jsut think others will come before her, both from capcom and in terms of secondary characters in a 3rd party series

I'm pretty sure Lara is still relevant with another Tomb Raider on the line and anime. Just because her games was released bit long ago doesn't diminish her status that easily.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

If we're saying Lara Croft isn't important anymore, we're too far gone.

 

[DarthEnderX]

What do you think would have happened if they had been given 6 more months?

Ganondorf might have had a real moveset.

 

[ninjahmos]

Ganondorf might have had a real moveset.

Yeah, and the announcer probably would've said his name with more enthusiasm.

Ganondorf...

 

[RodNutTakin]

It still boggles me that Melee took only 13 months of development.

What do you think would have happened if they had been given 6 more months?

I don't know exactly what Sakurai would've done, but if I was in charge and had that extra time, I would've had some slightly more unique options in place of the clones.

 

[fogbadge]

If we're saying Lara Croft isn't important anymore, we're too far gone.

so an average day for the boards

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

Come to think of it, I think people have been asking for Rayman since Smash 4. What do you think his chances are?

Rayman is an interesting case.
On paper he should be a fairly likely character: he's been decently requested for a long time, Ubisoft clearly wants it to happen, he's recently appeared in a game with Mario, he can easily work in Smash... His series has seen better days, but I don't think that matters all that much. Other mascots like Megaman, Simon and Banjo didn't exactly get in at the peak of their "careers" either. Even Cloud got in slightly before the big FF7 resurgence iirc.
However, at this point Rayman has had quite a few opportunities to get in already, and that just never happened. It feels like there's something stopping him, probably the alleged lack of popularity in Japan - but it could also just be because they were shy about coordinating with a western company for something that takes as much work as a character (+ a stage and a bunch of music) before the Microsoft characters, so who knows. Or is it because working around his hurtboxes would be too difficult since he has no limbs?

In any case, I think a Rayman/Ezio combo (or whoever else from Assassin's Creed) would be a fun way to replicate the Megaman/Ryu and the Banjo/Steve dynamics from 4 and Ultimate. You bring in the more Nintendo-like, more requested character first, and the more broadly popular, more boundary-crossing one right afterwards.
Of course there's the bandicoot in the room, but I don't think that Crash and Rayman necessarily compete for the same spot just because they're scrimblos. Anime swordsmen clearly don't, so...

Overall I'd say that Rayman still has fairly decent chances, but not super high.


Crash is also interesting, he's just a perfect fit for Smash, no? But for some reason I don't feel like he's going to happen. Can't pinpoint exactly why I have that feeling though.

 

[Gorgonzales]

Is there a character that died harder than Balloon Fighter? He wasn’t a huge request, but I remember him being discussed plenty back during Brawl speculation and early Smash 4 speculation as one of the more highly considered “retro reps.”

Then the Smash 4 announcement trailer dropped and Villager’s Up-B was shown to be a direct reference to Balloon Fight. I don’t think he’s even been mildly discussed since.

I firmly believe that Villager's current Up-B and Balloon Fighter as a playable character can coexist, but most people seem to think we can only have one or the other. I say they're not thinking creatively enough.

 

[Perkilator]

It still boggles me that Melee took only 13 months of development.

What do you think would have happened if they had been given 6 more months?

Screw that, Melee should’ve gotten a whole other year of development; 25 months. Anyway, here’s my personally biased Melee roster.

Luigi​	Wario​	Mario​	Donkey Kong​	Link​	Samus​	Yoshi​	Diddy Kong​	Ganondorf​
Falco​	Jigglypuff​	Kirby​	Fox​	Pikachu​	Ness​	Captain Falcon​	Mewtwo​	Marth​
​	Mach Rider​	Peach​	Bowser​	Zelda / Sheik​	Scizor​	Ice Climbers​	Mr. Game & Watch​	​

 

[Oracle Link]

A bit of a sad question but do you think Toriyama’s passing will negatively affect the chances of seeing one of his characters either returning to or joining Smash? I’d understand if they didn’t want to include anything out of respect but it could potentially be seen as another way to honor his legacy. I don’t mean any disrespect it’s just something I’m curious about.

I dont think they would you can argue that removing stuff is honring him but i think the much better argument is to still include them to immortilaize Toriyama!

 

[Gengar84]

I dont think they would you can argue that removing stuff is honring him but i think the much better argument is to still include them to immortilaize Toriyama!

I worded that poorly. I meant to say that keeping the character or adding a new one could be a way to honor his legacy but they could also leave the character out of Smash out of respect. I can see how that reads confusingly.

 

[Amornal1]

I think that a dark horse pick that l would love for smash bros 6 it's grovyle from pokemon mystery dungeon.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

It really is quite confusing people here seem to think "more time for development for Melee means a bunch more new unique characters (and no clones because clones icky and bad and I hate em )".

No. That's not how it works. At all.

If Melee had more development time, it wouldn't magically have changed that the initial planning stage on July 5th, 1999 only called for .
Why we even got the clones was two things.
-A later decision to increase the number of available fighters (something that is typically avoided in development for Smash, mind you)
-Saving resources by copying existing fighters.

We know for a fact, for example, in the time frame we got the clones, we could not have had even a single "unique" later addition like Wario.
Sakurai would even point out that if even Luigi and Jigglypuff were scrapped, Wario still wouldn't have made it.
The biggest kicker? He also said that to include Wario, he would had to replace both Marth and Mewtwo for it to happen.

And yet people seem to have it in their heads that we could have had all of Wario, Dedede, -insert non-Pichu Johto Pokémon here-, Ganondorf with unique moveset, Diddy (who was tied up in legal hell at the time), etc. if we had more time.


"If I was in charge of Smash, I would-"
You would have done jack **** because things don't magically work like that just because you want it to.


The ONLY thing more time would have realistically done is give Melee more polish.

 

[Gengar84]

I think that a dark horse pick that l would love for smash bros 6 it's grovyle from pokemon mystery dungeon.

I’ve never played Mystery Dungeon but Grovyle has always been one of my favorite starters and Grass type Pokemon overall. I think it could be a really fun option if we wanted a Grass starter to complete the triangle for standalone Pokemon.

 

[Amornal1]

I’ve never played Mystery Dungeon but Grovyle has always been one of my favorite starters and Grass type Pokemon overall. I think it could be a really fun option if we wanted a Grass starter to complete the triangle for standalone Pokemon.

Also, grovyle it's the most iconic characters from the games aside from the protagonist and his partner.