Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[DarthEnderX]

Hey, it was either that or "another generic anime swordfighter". He was screwed either way.

I'd have preferred that, honestly.

I don't care about FE's characters, but I like the way Marth/Roy/Ike play.

I care about DQs characters, but hate the way they played.

If Hero just had an anime swordsman moveset, I'd be able to enjoy playing a character I care about.


Oh well. At least I got Simon/Richter with fun movesets.

 

[SPEN18]

I think one reason I’m a bigger advocate of an Ultimate Deluxe is because I don’t want anyone to lose their favorites firstly but also there’s a lot of opportunities that just haven’t come to fruition that I’d love to see as a dream crossover Crash is a big one, Master Chief or Doom Slayer (or both) with the possibility of a Cortana Analysis or Sam Hayden/Vega Debrief is super cool especially for a possible Samus one, and Hayabusa finally making it in after so long, all there to fight Mario, Link, Snake, Sonic, Mega Man, Pac-Man, Ryu, Ken, Cloud, Simon, Richter, Bayonetta, Joker, Sephiroth, etc etc etc. Sure most of those characters are now pretty high priority to make it back in and I get that my mains probably won’t be cut.

But what about the people who just want to play Pichu vs Doom Slayer for the comedy or Chief vs Dark Samus? It’s dream matchups for individuals that kinda bum me out because I know how it feels.

I wanted to do NOTHING MORE than to have Snake fight Mega Man in Smash 4 but you know what? I had to wait 5 years for that to be a possibility but what if it never happened? It would’ve felt like such a missed opportunity and honestly, since I know how bad that sucked (and how high the possibility is that Sora might not even make it back) I don’t really want anyone to be bummed out like I was for so long.

Plus, cutting characters doesn’t automatically mean better online or trophies back or more stages or better single player or anything like that, no. It just means there’s less characters to choose from. All of it takes development time but who’s to say that Sakurai doesn’t instead cut characters to make a board game because, oh wait, that might’ve been the case. But honestly, who knows?

No matter what you do, someone is going to be bummed out that their character isn't playable, whether they're a vet or not. There will be dream matchups that are possible and others that are not. All you can really do is make the best game possible with the amount of resources you're given, setting priorities for characters and other pieces of content as appropriately as is feasible. Sometimes that might mean prioritizing other things over non-essential veteran PCs. Sometimes it might even mean less content if it allows for a better overall gameplay experience. Personally I wouldn't make a worse game with a roster that isn't properly and wholistically thought out just because a small minority would be upset about not having their character. It's also unfair to any number of candidate PCs to get out-prioritized due to non-relevant circumstances from up to twenty-some years ago.

 

[Sucumbio]

I think one reason I’m a bigger advocate of an Ultimate Deluxe is because I don’t want anyone to lose their favorites firstly but also there’s a lot of opportunities that just haven’t come to fruition that I’d love to see as a dream crossover Crash is a big one, Master Chief or Doom Slayer (or both) with the possibility of a Cortana Analysis or Sam Hayden/Vega Debrief is super cool especially for a possible Samus one, and Hayabusa finally making it in after so long, all there to fight Mario, Link, Snake, Sonic, Mega Man, Pac-Man, Ryu, Ken, Cloud, Simon, Richter, Bayonetta, Joker, Sephiroth, etc etc etc. Sure most of those characters are now pretty high priority to make it back in and I get that my mains probably won’t be cut.

But what about the people who just want to play Pichu vs Doom Slayer for the comedy or Chief vs Dark Samus? It’s dream matchups for individuals that kinda bum me out because I know how it feels.

I wanted to do NOTHING MORE than to have Snake fight Mega Man in Smash 4 but you know what? I had to wait 5 years for that to be a possibility but what if it never happened? It would’ve felt like such a missed opportunity and honestly, since I know how bad that sucked (and how high the possibility is that Sora might not even make it back) I don’t really want anyone to be bummed out like I was for so long.

Plus, cutting characters doesn’t automatically mean better online or trophies back or more stages or better single player or anything like that, no. It just means there’s less characters to choose from. All of it takes development time but who’s to say that Sakurai doesn’t instead cut characters to make a board game because, oh wait, that might’ve been the case. But honestly, who knows?

This actually makes a ton of sense and I appreciate the explanation. Dare I say it may even sway me in favor of rooting for a port IF they are able to add some newcomers. The lost modes I think I can live without but please God Nintendo please embrace rollback netcode pleeeese.

On the topic of how a character is repped moveset wise...eh I mean I remember when Snake came out in brawl My initial reaction was WTF lol like only 3 of his moves made sense with side special, down special and nades. No machine gun? Or socom? But I learned to get used to it. Still miss his down smash... But eh I guess they wanted to give him more cqc options.

Simon/Richter makes good sense. I just wish his recovery was better....

Mega man, it's like whatever I like what he can do and he's definitely got that weighs a ton feel and that run n gun pewpew feel .. the leaf shield was a nice touch. Crash bombs eh ok I dunno they kinda focused a lot on MM2 even though there's like, what 6 games just on nes... Yeah.

Hero is like haha way too complex I just don't use him.

 

[Chuderz]

With the whole character rework thing thrown around I wonder what everyone's ideal solution would be? For this thought experiment, I'm going to take Ultimate DX as the platform as a given.

So you want to do reworks on the likes of the older cast to varying extents, with the likes of Mario, the Links, Samus, Donkey Kong, Ganon and so on. There might be a few more but these are the common ones I see thrown around a lot.

I see two potential solutions to this issue. 1 is the inheritor solution. Change Mario but keep Dr. Mario the same and in essence "inheriting" Mario's old moveset. This would have some rough patches here and there but it'd mostly work fine this way and finally distinguish a character like Dr. Mario as wholly unique. Another way of going about this same philosophy is having a new character being added to inherit the old moveset like Ganon's old moveset being given to Black Shadow.

I thought of an all-encompassing solution though that'd basically keep everything intact while allowing for these reworks. Characters that have reworks done on them (or just some of them I'll go into detail later) have an indicator next to them not too unsimilar to what it looks like when you stack the echoes. Either have that indicator being interchangeable with the click of a button (different than the one used to switch between echoes, PT's Pokemon and Pyra/Mythra obviously) or when selecting the character have a submenu pop up at the bottom of the portrait that asks the player whether they'd like to use the "classic" or "modern" moveset as an option before confirming their character choice.

You could even mix and match these 2 philosophies somewhat. Black Shadow can be created to inherit the old moveset, Young Link can be kept the same to inherit Link's old moveset and Mario and Samus could have the submenu option while tweaking Dark Samus with some of "her" Assist Trophy moves to help distinguish her some as her own character.

Just some thoughts on some potential solutions here.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

This actually makes a ton of sense and I appreciate the explanation. Dare I say it may even sway me in favor of rooting for a port IF they are able to add some newcomers. The lost modes I think I can live without but please God Nintendo please embrace rollback netcode pleeeese..

I can’t imagine a scenario where Nintendo makes an Ultimate Deluxe or Ultimate.5 and doesn’t add new characters and make new seasons of DLC. It’s way too much money to just leave on the floor.

But getting good online is absolutely a must. I don’t know how ARMS, Splatoon, and Mario Kart 8 have rollback netcode and Smash doesn’t.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I can’t imagine a scenario where Nintendo makes an Ultimate Deluxe or Ultimate.5 and doesn’t add new characters and make new seasons of DLC. It’s way too much money to just leave on the floor.

DLC will probably be the only way for an Ultimate port to have new, non-echo newcomers in the first place lmao.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I can’t imagine a scenario where Nintendo makes an Ultimate Deluxe or Ultimate.5 and doesn’t add new characters and make new seasons of DLC. It’s way too much money to just leave on the floor.

But getting good online is absolutely a must. I don’t know how ARMS, Splatoon, and Mario Kart 8 have rollback netcode and Smash doesn’t.

Harada, probably

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

There’s a lot of ups that come with an upgraded port of Ultimate. The chance to bring back the entirety of Ultimate since negotiations and the like would be much easier, bring back the remaining 10 or 12(?) stages from previous games that didn’t make it, add new characters and stages in the base package, add more characters and stages through more DLC Seasons, more time to work on the netcode (please god), and possibly add in random missing stuff like target test and boss rush.

The big one is if you didn’t fundamentally like the gameplay of Ultimate you’re still not going to be satisfied but then again there’s no real assurance that the theoretical new game will do that either.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

There’s a lot of ups that come with an upgraded port of Ultimate. The chance to bring back the entirety of Ultimate since negotiations and the like would be much easier, bring back the remaining 10 or 12(?) stages from previous games that didn’t make it, add new characters and stages in the base package, add more characters and stages through more DLC Seasons, more time to work on the netcode (please god), and possibly add in random missing stuff like target test and boss rush.

The big one is if you didn’t fundamentally like the gameplay of Ultimate you’re still not going to be satisfied but then again there’s no real assurance that the theoretical new game will do that either.

Also, more music, more spirits (maybe the supposedly cut JFG and BC spirits if not DT? Undertale and other obvious spirit material games as well), more ATs, more overall features

and maybe some tweaks to World of Light. Still need to do my WoL Improvements write up…

but also GIVE ME FLY OCTO FLY AS A NEW BGM. PLEASE.

 

[Guynamednelson]

There’s a lot of ups that come with an upgraded port of Ultimate. The chance to bring back the entirety of Ultimate since negotiations and the like would be much easier, bring back the remaining 10 or 12(?) stages from previous games that didn’t make it, add new characters and stages in the base package, add more characters and stages through more DLC Seasons, more time to work on the netcode (please god), and possibly add in random missing stuff like target test and boss rush.

The big one is if you didn’t fundamentally like the gameplay of Ultimate you’re still not going to be satisfied but then again there’s no real assurance that the theoretical new game will do that either.

Also, more music, more spirits (maybe the supposedly cut JFG and BC spirits if not DT? Undertale and other obvious spirit material games as well), more ATs, more overall features

and maybe some tweaks to World of Light. Still need to do my WoL Improvements write up…

but also GIVE ME FLY OCTO FLY AS A NEW BGM. PLEASE.

You're forgetting something: Ultimate was already recycling assets. And guess what it still couldn't do?

 

[chocolatejr9]

You're forgetting something: Ultimate was already recycling assets. And guess what it still couldn't do?

Bring back the Mr. Resetti Assist Trophy?

 

[HyperSomari64]

Bring back the Mr. Resetti Assist Trophy?

Not before they bring Back Ai No Uta and Checker Knights

 

[Dinoman96]

You're forgetting something: Ultimate was already recycling assets. And guess what it still couldn't do?

Bring back a bunch of game modes that, when you really sit down and think about it, hardly anyone cared about?

 

[Yamat08]

i am curious how would they be able to handle a story mode with more than 89 characters in the next game (if everyone comes back)
SSE was amazing so i am not sure if they will ever be able to surpass that
it would probably require a big fan fiction to be written

I know I said this way earlier in the thread, but a new story mode doesn't necessarily need to involve ALL the characters, just as Subspace Emissary didn't. I mean, aside from Jigglypuff, Toon Link, and Wolf being relegated to some post-game unlockables with a cutscene that only features their home stage (not even looking like it's set anywhere within SSE), even the characters within SSE proper have smaller roles than others. The Ice Climbers are just kind of there, Sonic shows up out of nowhere at the last second, and Yoshi doesn't seem to serve much of a purpose aside from being Link's partner. Even Mr. Game & Watch, though serving as an explanation to the Shadow Bugs, is almost non-existent between the time he debuts properly and the time Tabuu nukes everyone (same with ROB, for that matter).

I could see a new story mode (that's more involved than World of Light) pulling off something like this, even with the roster more than doubling since Brawl. Just put focus on a few key characters, cordon off some characters into specific team-ups and groups, while other characters (namely the DLC ones) could join the party in some kind of stand-alone area.

No matter what you do, someone is going to be bummed out that their character isn't playable, whether they're a vet or not. There will be dream matchups that are possible and others that are not. All you can really do is make the best game possible with the amount of resources you're given, setting priorities for characters and other pieces of content as appropriately as is feasible. Sometimes that might mean prioritizing other things over non-essential veteran PCs. Sometimes it might even mean less content if it allows for a better overall gameplay experience. Personally I wouldn't make a worse game with a roster that isn't properly and wholistically thought out just because a small minority would be upset about not having their character. It's also unfair to any number of candidate PCs to get out-prioritized due to non-relevant circumstances from up to twenty-some years ago.

I'm already pretty bummed that none of the newer characters can be played in a platforming Adventure stage. I guess it is a sad reality that, as with any series, each individual entry will have some sort of pick-and-choose mentality with both the characters and the features. And yet, I also can't help feeling that it doesn't necessarily need to be that way, and they could theoretically just keep packing onto what they've already got. But of course, this relies on a number of factors, not only the ease of porting such things and third-party negotiations, but also the budget and amount of time that the development team's allotted. Still, one can only hope for the best.

 

[ahemtoday]

To be fair, I think Tekken 7 helped Kazuya win over Jin, despite Jin also having the same Devil Gene solution to Sakurai's problem, because its story pushes Jin out of the spotlight to finish up Kazuya and Heihachi's conflict specifically. So if you're gonna pick a character because of T7, might as well have a T7 mechanic I guess.

That and for Jin the moveset would only be appropriate for him if he was ALWAYS in his Devil form.

"Might as well" doesn't really mean anything. You "might as well" have any mechanic regardless of what made you pick the character. He's already plenty Tekken enough without giving him yet another super mechanic.

 

[Perkilator]

Bring back a bunch of game modes that, when you really sit down and think about it, hardly anyone cared about?

Hey, I like Brawl’s Targets, Boss Battles, ACTUAL All-Star and Smash Run!

 

[DarthEnderX]

Another way of going about this same philosophy is having a new character being added to inherit the old moveset like Ganon's old moveset being given to Black Shadow.

Yeeeeesssss...

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Not before they bring Back Ai No Uta and Checker Knights

Nah, they should bring back Orbital Gate first

 

[Dinoman96]

My hot take is that a SSE type mode doesn't really make sense in an era where Smash is much more evergreen.

One of the things that really suck about DLC fighters is that they're basically cordoned off from the main game: they don't get custom moves (in Smash 4), they're not on the classic mode banner, they don't have Palutena Guidances, their corresponding spirits are sectioned off onto their own spirit boards instead of being on the main board and don't even appear in World of Light, they don't come with assist trophies, etc

It'd be just like that with a new Subspace type cinematic story mode. Like imagine if Smash 4 had SSE 2, wouldn't it be a shame if the likes of Cloud, Ryu, Bayonetta and the veterans had to miss out on the crossover fun, just because they were DLC? Imagine if Ultimate also had SSE 3, that'd mean most of Ultimate's "holy ****" additions like Joker, Banjo, Steve, Sephiroth, Sora, etc would also be excluded due to their DLC status.

I dunno, I just think a mode like that made more sense in Brawl, where the Wii had no DLC support and thus when the game came out, that was it. But now we live in a time where Smash games have such and tend to include some of their biggest bombshells as DLC. Thus the prospects of another cinematic mode just feels uninteresting to me because I know they would all be excluded. Hell, Brawl had a way smaller roster and no DLC and it couldn't even of managed to put all of its fighters in the main storyline (Jiggs, Wolf, Toon Link).

 

[Sucumbio]

I haven't even played around with Palutena guidance but I did love the codec stuff in brawl. Since I only play online and there's no taunting online I gotta ask did any of the codec stuff come back?

 

[toonito]

IMO an Ultimate Deluxe would probably be light on newcomers as well as DLC (ala Mario Kart 8 Deluxe) to make up for bringing everyone back and adding new/returning stages and modes. Ulimate was such a big endeavor I don't see a Deluxe version getting 3 years of support like the vanilla version.

To save as much time as possible there'd probably be a couple of newcomers, maybe an echo or two, some AT promotions and probably only 1 season of DLC at best.

When people desire a deluxe version of Ultimate its typically to preserve the characters and gameplay style from Ultimate since they may not be happy with any serious changes that may come in an all new Smash 6.

 

[chocolatejr9]

I haven't even played around with Palutena guidance but I did love the codec stuff in brawl. Since I only play online and there's no taunting online I gotta ask did any of the codec stuff come back?

Yes, but it's all carried over from Brawl.

 

[Guynamednelson]

gameplay style from Ultimate since they may not be happy with any serious changes that may come in an all new Smash 6.

I have many, many doubts it's because they want to keep the gameplay intact. Hell I think it's more about keeping specific characters rather than the whole roster, most of the people begging for eternal Ultimate ports are the same people who complained about FE having so many reps. Mfs be like "CAN'T STAND FE, HOPE ALL THE NEXT GAME HAS IS MAR-" one sora later "PLEASE DON'T CUT ANYONE OH GOD PLEASE DON'T CUT ANYONE!!!!"

 

[Perkilator]

Hey, I like Brawl’s Targets, Boss Battles, ACTUAL All-Star and Smash Run!

On that last note, I kinda miss Smash Run in particular and wish we got that back in Sora’s update.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I haven't even played around with Palutena guidance but I did love the codec stuff in brawl. Since I only play online and there's no taunting online I gotta ask did any of the codec stuff come back?

Yes, but it's all carried over from Brawl.

There’s no new ones for the new characters (post-Brawl) either and some use outdated info. One reason is because Colonel Roy Campbell’s character was retired when his Japanese VO passed away around 2010.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

IMO an Ultimate Deluxe would probably be light on newcomers as well as DLC (ala Mario Kart 8 Deluxe) to make up for bringing everyone back and adding new/returning stages and modes.

I’m glad you made this comparison to MK8. I was actually waiting on it because, an Ultimate Deluxe likely wouldn’t follow that pattern because there’s another deluxe game that everyone forgot about.

Pokken.

Pokken DX not only brought all the stuff over from the Wii U version but also all the stuff from the arcade version and THEN had two dlc packs featuring two brand new, made for the version, newcomers. And who made Pokken? Yep, Bamco.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I’m glad you made this comparison to MK8. I was actually waiting on it because, an Ultimate Deluxe likely wouldn’t follow that pattern because there’s another deluxe game that everyone forgot about.

Pokken.

Pokken DX not only brought all the stuff over from the Wii U version but also all the stuff from the arcade version and THEN had two dlc packs featuring two brand new, made for the version, newcomers. And who made Pokken? Yep, Bamco.

Pokken DX still wasn't exactly what Ultimate DX fans are hoping for either. And it has a much smaller roster than SSBU or MK8, and only adding three more fighters not seen in the arcades makes sure that's true.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Pokken DX still wasn't exactly what Ultimate DX fans are hoping for either. And it has a much smaller roster than SSBU or MK8, and only adding three more fighters not seen in the arcades makes sure that's true.

The point isn’t direct comparison it’s precedence. There’s precedent for a Namco Bandai made Deluxe Version of a Nintendo game to get post launch support through DLC.

Mario Kart didn’t REALLY get that aside from like BotW Link but it’s likely Smash would be a different approach.

 

[Perkilator]

If I were in charge of an Ultimate DX, I’d add the following:

• All DLC characters now unlockable
• 4 new playable characters (3 unique, one Echo)
• 3 new stages
• Smash Run
• Add the DLC fighters to WoL

I even started a creation thread about it

 

[SPEN18]

I'm already pretty bummed that none of the newer characters can be played in a platforming Adventure stage. I guess it is a sad reality that, as with any series, each individual entry will have some sort of pick-and-choose mentality with both the characters and the features. And yet, I also can't help feeling that it doesn't necessarily need to be that way, and they could theoretically just keep packing onto what they've already got. But of course, this relies on a number of factors, not only the ease of porting such things and third-party negotiations, but also the budget and amount of time that the development team's allotted. Still, one can only hope for the best.

Yeah, I really miss having a fully fledged platforming story/adventure-type mode; it's one of those things where I'm not even too picky about how it would be implemented, but I think at this point it is unfortunately going to be too many resources, and is only made more difficult by the larger roster size. If there was a way they could do it without losing too much in other content/gameplay, then I'd probably welcome it back.

I also do on some level relate to people who want Smash to just keep building and building on top of what it already has, and in a more ideal situation I probably wouldn't be piling up posts on why we should cut characters. But I guess there is just too much about Ultimate's roster selection and single-/multi-player experience that I'd rather have changed for continual porting of it to seem exciting or desirable at all. Obviously I'm not ever gonna just get everything I'd like out of the game, but I'm not gonna just blindly agree with every decision they make and it's not gonna stop me from supporting what I support. That's all part of the fun of speculating anyway. And besides, even if the next game does end up being a port, it doesn't change how further ports after that just get increasingly unlikely and how they'll eventually have to make a brand new game. It largely just delays the possibilities for change. And new content, while having the potential to be great in its own ways, won't fix the root problems I have with Ultimate's design and roster selection philosophy (not that I'll likely ever totally agree with their design choices, but I think there's real possibility for better than what we have now).

 

[Chuderz]

That's all part of the fun of speculating anyway. And besides, even if the next game does end up being a port, it doesn't change how further ports after that just get increasingly unlikely and how they'll eventually have to make a brand new game. It largely just delays the possibilities for change. And new content, while having the potential to be great in its own ways, won't fix the root problems I have with Ultimate's design and roster selection philosophy (not that I'll likely ever totally agree with their design choices, but I think there's real possibility for better than what we have now).

They'll definitely eventually have to make a brand new game. That's obvious. I think the urgency I feel with them working on an Ultimate DX like a true Smash 6 with years of development behind it is that they only get the shot to do it this once. You have all the other times to make a new Smash but only this one opportunity to do Ultimate DX. It just feels like it'd be a total waste to leave it.

I guess the same argument could be made for the successor to a hypothetical Ultimate DX and on and on from there but I think it applies only this cycle immediately after Ultimate.

While it's clear that Ultimate did live up to its moniker it's hard to feel like it reached its full potential all things considered. EiH did eat away at a lot of content so that's why it feels like it's so wasteful to just leave the Ultimate Smash where it currently is. EiH is established and given another AAA budget (maybe even bigger than the first go-around) and having all these years available until a Switch successor in the interim just feels like an absolutely stellar opportunity worth taking the series in hence the passion for a project that might not ever exist.

It's also not out of the ordinary for Nintendo to reuse their work and I think this hypothetical game, this Ultimate DX, would be one of the most magnificent utilizations of that design philosophy. Currently the Breath of the Wild team is making use of the same philosophy and by the time BOTW2 is released it'll have been 5 years since they started with BOTW's openworld, models and physics as their base so suffice to say people's expectations are high. Same would be true for an Ultimate DX which is why I think an MK8 DX port option isn't a realistic option for Smash as it currently stands in the gaming zeitgeist today.

 

[Yamat08]

My hot take is that a SSE type mode doesn't really make sense in an era where Smash is much more evergreen.

One of the things that really suck about DLC fighters is that they're basically cordoned off from the main game: they don't get custom moves (in Smash 4), they're not on the classic mode banner, they don't have Palutena Guidances, their corresponding spirits are sectioned off onto their own spirit boards instead of being on the main board and don't even appear in World of Light, they don't come with assist trophies, etc

It'd be just like that with a new Subspace type cinematic story mode. Like imagine if Smash 4 had SSE 2, wouldn't it be a shame if the likes of Cloud, Ryu, Bayonetta and the veterans had to miss out on the crossover fun, just because they were DLC? Imagine if Ultimate also had SSE 3, that'd mean most of Ultimate's "holy ****" additions like Joker, Banjo, Steve, Sephiroth, Sora, etc would also be excluded due to their DLC status.

I dunno, I just think a mode like that made more sense in Brawl, where the Wii had no DLC support and thus when the game came out, that was it. But now we live in a time where Smash games have such and tend to include some of their biggest bombshells as DLC. Thus the prospects of another cinematic mode just feels uninteresting to me because I know they would all be excluded. Hell, Brawl had a way smaller roster and no DLC and it couldn't even of managed to put all of its fighters in the main storyline (Jiggs, Wolf, Toon Link).

Incidentally, Hyrule Warriors also implemented its DLC rather clumsily. Especially in the original WiiU version, in which all additional characters and weapons (aside from the original trio of villains: Cia, Volga, and Wizzro, whom I'm guessing were already coded into the game) have every weapon rank already unlocked from the start, and they didn't even have Heart Containers or new costumes to collect despite new maps being added. The 3DS port was a little better about this, though the DLC characters still didn't get new costumes, nor a level 4+ weapon (thankfully, Definitive Edition added in the latter for those last few characters).

On one hand, I could kinda see why. They just wanna add on content without screwing up the base game, so they need to make some shortcuts in that regard. On the other hand, it's not as if DLC can't be implemented into the game more naturally. At the very least, it might've been nice if the new characters actually had an unlock battle placed SOMEWHERE within World of Light (and god knows there's plenty of empty space they could've used, or even a new sub-world if nothing else), instead of automatically unlocking them. Amusingly enough, the Smash4 DLC characters DID get Palutena's Guidances in Ultimate, as well as Assist Trophies from their series (except for Cloud). I think something like that goes to show how differently they approach DLC compared to just releasing a whole new title.

Also, I'd argue that that doesn't need to be the case in a hypothetical SSE sequel. Sure, they'd be missing out on the main storyline, but as I said before, they could be unlockable in their own stand-alone storylines (such storylines could even require certain conditions to unlock to ensure cutscenes could feature particular characters, ex. Cloud being required to be with you in order to unlock Sephiroth). And if nothing else, they could just go the Jigglypuff, Toon Link, Wolf route with them, just add a random door somewhere in the stages.

 

[Guynamednelson]

They'll definitely eventually have to make a brand new game. That's obvious. I think the urgency I feel with them working on an Ultimate DX like a true Smash 6 with years of development behind it is that they only get the shot to do it this once. You have all the other times to make a new Smash but only this one opportunity to do Ultimate DX. It just feels like it'd be a total waste to leave it.

I guess the same argument could be made for the successor to a hypothetical Ultimate DX and on and on from there but I think it applies only this cycle immediately after Ultimate

But...wasn't Ultimate their opportunity to make a new game with a ton of recycled assets? And why do you keep saying it'd be a "waste" when you can always go back to Ultimate if you want certain characters?

Honestly I'm wishing more and more that they went with the "Special" subtitle everywhere. At least then people would understand this game is just a special occasion, and not TEH ULTIMATEST GAEM THAT MUST BE PORTED FOREVAR!!!!1111ONE

 

[Will]

I don't see why not on Ultimate DX. I'd buy it. So would millions of other people.

 

[Dinoman96]

Sad truth is that the next game is pretty much gonna be controversial no matter what they do.

Obviously one crowd will be upset at a new game with a bunch of character cuts, but the other crowd will be upset with an upgraded port of Ultimate because they just want a new game and don't want Smash to get Mario Karted for the next generation.

 

[Tankman from Newgrounds]

I don't see why not on Ultimate DX. I'd buy it. So would millions of other people.

Yeah, especially everyone on Earth (Even Africa).

 

[Yamat08]

Sad truth is that the next game is pretty much gonna be controversial no matter what they do.

Obviously one crowd will be upset at a new game with a bunch of character cuts, but the other crowd will be upset with an upgraded port of Ultimate because they just want a new game and don't want Smash to get Mario Karted.

Hey now, that won't happen until it turns into some cashgrab mobile title.

Also, if you think about it, aren't there still people who accuse Ultimate of being a Smash4 port?

 

[Diddy Kong]

There's a few things a Ultimate DX will instantly fix, just by existing. And that's of course the licence deals with the third party characters, and Everyone Is Here. On top of that, the one player mode is straight up flat, and the input system can be largely improved on. So in a way, it's the ideal game to build up on. That's reason enough to want it to happen for me.

 

[Tankman from Newgrounds]

There's a few things a Ultimate DX will instantly fix, just by existing. And that's of course the licence deals with the third party characters, and Everyone Is Here. On top of that, the one player mode is straight up flat, and the input system can be largely improved on. So in a way, it's the ideal game to build up on. That's reason enough to want it to happen for me.

Don't forget about Rollback Netcode!

 

[Yamat08]

You know, even if it was just a straight port, I really do find it a shame that they couldn't have gotten Subspace into Ultimate. I mean, now that they're able to use Snake again, now seems like the perfect time to give that thing a re-release, and god knows Brawl's been out of print for a good while now. Then again, after whatever happened with Snake in Smash4, here's hoping Nintendo had the foresight to negotiate long-term contracts for using third-party characters.

There's a few things a Ultimate DX will instantly fix, just by existing. And that's of course the licence deals with the third party characters, and Everyone Is Here. On top of that, the one player mode is straight up flat, and the input system can be largely improved on. So in a way, it's the ideal game to build up on. That's reason enough to want it to happen for me.

Wait, are you talking about licensing renewals, or what?

BTW, here's an idea to really have an "all-inclusive" Smash game: engine settings. Some of the Darkstalkers compilations have it so you could set the game to play like some of the older entries (including specific version updates), so I wonder if Smash could do something similar. Maybe that could finally please the Melee crowd (well, aside from those extremely hardcore types who think Smash is literally unplayable without a worn-down controller).