Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Tankman from Newgrounds]

I am 100% alone on this, but I want the next Smash to cut down the roster and content - heavily at that. So many poorly designed characters who need either more time in the woodworks or to have their very inclusion reconsidered.

Real tired of rigid game accuracy in movesets. I want a platform fighting game, not Super Mario Crossover.

Actually, more likely we can get Nintendo Allstars Platform Fighter without 3rd Parties.

 

[osby]

I have to wonder why so many people assume that cutting content from the game will automatically make Sakurai implement their weirdly specific design decisions that have nothing to do with the game's development time.

 

[Trevenant]

I have to wonder why so many people assume that cutting content from the game will automatically make Sakurai implement their weirdly specific design decisions that have nothing to do with the game's development time.

I don't think anyone actually thinks that tho lmao... They're either joking around or clearly have no idea what they're talking about which means that they can't really legitimately think it lol... When the discussion even has one of the users literally say that cutting palutena's guidance could help bring everyone back, it's pretty obvious that you shouldn't take them seriously... Unless it's for that one user who mentioned nintendo all stars for the billionth time, but it's kinda obvious that user doesn't exactly get how it works lol... They out of the blue suggested Nintendo all stars one day cos I presume they just liked the name or something, without really knowing that cutting stuff doesn't make it more likely to come to fruition, let alone how cutting all third parties really is just ridiculous in general...

 

[Geno Boost]

I am pretty sure everything can be ported to the next game with licensing next gen console probably wouldn’t be weaker than the switch if it’s done successfully then I don’t see the point of cutting contents but rather upgrade the contents

 

[DanganZilla5]

I agree that several of the first party veterans should get a rework, but that could happen still without cutting down the roster a lot. I mean even with the strenuous development Ultimate had with bringing everyone back, it still made some improvements here and there on the veterans.

I don't get the argument for severely trimming down the roster. I understand trimming some fat but I don't see why more than half the roster needs to be cut for changes to happen. There could be other reasons why characters like Donkey Kong and Samus haven't been upgraded yet and as for the online problems...well to be fair that is something that Nintendo as a whole is still two decades behind on.

 

[Trevenant]

If we're talking complete overhauls, then I'd assume that would definitely teethe into resources that could go into new characters... the more that I think about it, I think the mentality behind cuts for overhauls (at least) even though they don't necessarily equate to actual time is that they'd have more time to overhaul the characters if some don't return... Granted, the time spent bringing a new character over would probably a fraction of the time a whole new moveset would take to make, and it arguably doesn't make much sense but it explains it somewhat...

Although I only based that on overhauls, and am not gonna entertain users that suggest nintendo all stars etc like that other user did despite it was clear that the user proposing cutting all third parties doesn't exactly get what that'd mean lmao... No offence but they are pretty gimmicky suggestions to say the least and it's kinda obvious that you shouldn't take them seriously

 

[Guynamednelson]

next gen console probably wouldn’t be weaker than the switch

Uh, no ****? It should be stronger, which would in turn facilitate redoing character models, which in turn will make it harder to make the Ultimate DX certain people here dream about.

I don't get the argument for severely trimming down the roster. I understand trimming some fat but I don't see why more than half the roster needs to be cut for changes to happen. There could be other reasons why characters like Donkey Kong and Samus haven't been upgraded yet and as for the online problems...well to be fair that is something that Nintendo as a whole is still two decades behind on.

For me it's less of a "they MUST" and more of a "they WILL". Smash doesn't have an unlimited budget, and they need to satisfy people who want to see newcomers as well, not just returning veterans, which will be far easier if some characters get the chopping block for whatever reason.

Whatever they do is going to alienate people regardless. Eternal SSBU ports will alienate those who want new content, traditional Smash sequels will alienate those who worry they won't see their favorite character again.

 

[Perkilator]

Furthermore, shouldn’t game accuracy result in more creative movesets? Don’t get me wrong, it usually yields mixed results depending on the character, but I think faithfulness to their original game helps them stick out more.

 

[Trevenant]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

ARMS alts for Min Min could still happen guys. But yeah seriously, weird that a game with such an active playerbase didn't find put about these changes a lot earlier... I assume it's been known a while but it's interesting nonetheless...

 

[DarthEnderX]

I’ll do you one better: Eggman as CP11 while Sora gets to be CP5.

I'd rather have Eggman as a Boss than a Fighter.

 

[Tankman from Newgrounds]

I'd rather have Eggman as a Boss than a Fighter.

Nah, Death Egg Robot is gonna be Boss, while Eggman himself would become fighter.
And the Death Egg Robot would be controlled by Metal sonic.

 

[Guynamednelson]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

ARMS alts for Min Min could still happen guys. But yeah seriously, weird that a game with such an active playerbase didn't find put about these changes a lot earlier... I assume it's been known a while but it's interesting nonetheless...

I think the Smash Wiki actually listed these changes far earlier, like around 2014. So yeah, this was found out about before 2022.

 

[Trevenant]

I think the Smash Wiki actually listed these changes far earlier, like around 2014. So yeah, this was found out about before 2022.

Yeah still 12 years after Melee which is why I never said 2022 was when it was found out lol... I can't really say I check smash wiki... But still, I'd have assumed the player base would have found out considering how Melee is like, THE competitive smash game...

 

[Nabbitfan730]

I'm going to spice up discussion for a bit.

Do people here still watch machinima?

If you haven't, you should stuff like is really cool especially the smash ones

 

[Gengar84]

I'm going to spice up discussion for a bit.

Do people here still watch machinima?

If you haven't, you should stuff like is really cool especially the smash ones

I watched machinima in the early Brawl days and it’s actually how I discovered that modding was a thing. I haven’t watched anything since I started modding Brawl myself over 10 years ago.

 

[Nabbitfan730]

I watched machinima in the early Brawl days and it’s actually how I discovered that modding was a thing. I haven’t watched anything since I started modding Brawl myself over 10 years ago.

Yes, its gotten much nicher due to the shutdown of Machinima but you should come back to it.

still lot of gems coming of ultimate like the one i posted

 

[Guynamednelson]

Do people here still watch machinima?

I was more of a Source Engine machinima guy, even during the age of Brawl.

 

[DarthEnderX]

If you haven't, you should stuff like is really cool especially the smash ones

****'s pretty corny.

 

[Gengar84]

I don’t remember if it was machinima or something else but I remember a series of videos back in the Brawl days that rearranged Snake’s codec conversations to make him say dumb and funny things. That was pretty funny but I wouldn’t know how to find it again.

 

[HyperSomari64]

Imagine if some day, there is a reboot of that live-action machinima with the evil Kirby and sprinkle on it characters from Smash 4 and onwards

 

[SKX31]

ARMS alts for Min Min could still happen guys. But yeah seriously, weird that a game with such an active playerbase didn't find put about these changes a lot earlier... I assume it's been known a while but it's interesting nonetheless...

Thing is, digging into the game's code was a painstakingly slow process 20-30 years ago. Partly since fewer people could dig into the coding, partly because Nintendo and co. do not release the source code ever - they have no reason to do so, really - and partly because Internet access only became nigh-ubiqutous as the 2000s decade went on. Other older games like SM64 / Sunshine and OoT / MM also took a very long time to be fully discovered and worked out (SM64's BLJ was independently discovered twice, but went under the radar the first time because the discovery was published in the Latin American Club Nintendo magazine, not many in NA / EU would even have access to that). Contrast games that left source code more or less open or allowed for more extensive modding (Doom, SF2, Starcraft / Warcraft 3 just to name some very prominent examples) where it'd still take time, but the process was expedited by the in-game tools and what not.

Edit: Forgot about reverse-engineering, which did happen a lot back then too, but that was still a generally slower process due to the aformentioned factors.

Newer games (Odyssey, BotW, Ultimate, Dread, BDSP) are more quickly worked out partly because dataminers comb through any patched changes and what not as the days go on, and it's much easier to share discoveries. Yes, developers can patch such things - and those can help, especially when glitches have negative or even corrupting effects - but there'll always be something that slips through the cracks because they're human and also miss things. For example, Ultimate's air dodge landing lag glitch that affects 10 or so characters (one Special each).

And while the differences between Falcon's alts are extremely minor (which in turn is one reason why most didn't find out I'd imagine), there are some major cases that went under the radar for the longest time: the Invisible Ceiling glitch, arguably Melee's biggest gameplay glitch since it affects shield interactions, all Counters etc., wasn't more or less fully explored until a certain infamous tournament set exposed it in 2015. And I say more or less because no one still knows why the jank has its own jank AFAIK.

And hey, in the end, sometimes those glitches can take a life of its own or even define the future of a genre - thus making something beautiful out of a total mess. Just ask SF2's combos, rocketjumping in early FPS games or SM64's BLJ.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

I am 100% alone on this, but I want the next Smash to cut down the roster and content - heavily at that. So many poorly designed characters who need either more time in the woodworks or to have their very inclusion reconsidered.

Real tired of rigid game accuracy in movesets. I want a platform fighting game, not Super Mario Crossover.

Yes you are 100% alone on this. Believe it or not people like their characters in their crossover fighting game to play like the characters they like. Just because you are upset that someone like Incineroar or Corrin made it in doesn't mean anything in the grand scheme of things. If I want say Dante in Smash, I would want Dante to feel like Dante. If I wanted Waluigi in Smash, I would want him to feel like Waluigi.

People like Ultimate. It is the most balanced game in the Smash series. While you think there are multiple poorly designed characters, in reality most of the roster is not only viable at a competitive level, they are soulful recreations of the character in question. Soul wise, even characters that are not that popular like Corrin or Incineroar hit the flavor and fantasy they are trying to sell. Both competitively and moveset wise, the vast majority of the roster is fine. Are there some that need some changes in the next game? Of course. Kirby and Ganon need a lot of TLC, and Plant certainly needs another round through the wringer balance wise. But I think that the vast majority of the roster is in a good spot, and the majority of the community would agree with me.

As for the idea that characters need their inclusion reconsidered, that is the dumbest thing I have ever seen. 99% of the time, the inclusions people want reconsidered are picks like Corrin, Incineroar, some clones, or third parites. But even them you are not getting addition by subtraction. You will not get Ashley in the game by cutting Incineroar. You will not get Skull Kid by cutting Corrin. You will not get Waluigi by cutting Sora. Game development just does not work like that, especially for Smash. Hell, Smash itself has always been apprehensive to cuts. Look at how we only had 5 cuts in brawl, three of which were planned to come back we know of. Look at in Smash 4 where there were 6 cuts, half of which due to tech issues and one of which came back as DLC. Smash avoids cuts anyway, so asking for something as unrealistic as this is a waste of time.

Actually, more likely we can get Nintendo Allstars Platform Fighter without 3rd Parties.

Would you like to continue living in 2001? Because even then this fantasy of yours would not be tenable. Sakurai was thinking of third parties since the Smash 2 poll right after Smash 64 came out. Sonic and Snake were considered to appear in Melee. Third parties are here to stay, despite what you and the very vocal tiny minority that dislikes them thinks.

 

[Tankman from Newgrounds]

Yes you are 100% alone on this. Believe it or not people like their characters in their crossover fighting game to play like the characters they like. Just because you are upset that someone like Incineroar or Corrin made it in doesn't mean anything in the grand scheme of things. If I want say Dante in Smash, I would want Dante to feel like Dante. If I wanted Waluigi in Smash, I would want him to feel like Waluigi.

People like Ultimate. It is the most balanced game in the Smash series. While you think there are multiple poorly designed characters, in reality most of the roster is not only viable at a competitive level, they are soulful recreations of the character in question. Soul wise, even characters that are not that popular like Corrin or Incineroar hit the flavor and fantasy they are trying to sell. Both competitively and moveset wise, the vast majority of the roster is fine. Are there some that need some changes in the next game? Of course. Kirby and Ganon need a lot of TLC, and Plant certainly needs another round through the wringer balance wise. But I think that the vast majority of the roster is in a good spot, and the majority of the community would agree with me.

As for the idea that characters need their inclusion reconsidered, that is the dumbest thing I have ever seen. 99% of the time, the inclusions people want reconsidered are picks like Corrin, Incineroar, some clones, or third parites. But even them you are not getting addition by subtraction. You will not get Ashley in the game by cutting Incineroar. You will not get Skull Kid by cutting Corrin. You will not get Waluigi by cutting Sora. Game development just does not work like that, especially for Smash. Hell, Smash itself has always been apprehensive to cuts. Look at how we only had 5 cuts in brawl, three of which were planned to come back we know of. Look at in Smash 4 where there were 6 cuts, half of which due to tech issues and one of which came back as DLC. Smash avoids cuts anyway, so asking for something as unrealistic as this is a waste of time.



Would you like to continue living in 2001? Because even then this fantasy of yours would not be tenable. Sakurai was thinking of third parties since the Smash 2 poll right after Smash 64 came out. Sonic and Snake were considered to appear in Melee. Third parties are here to stay, despite what you and the very vocal tiny minority that dislikes them thinks.

Nope, but still we could implement them.
But I'm afraid that if we continued "Everyone is Here" and Smash in future title would become Gaming Allstars, which I could prefer this as Seperate game.
But still, there needs to be rule that only characters, who appeared on Switch or Nintendo console need to join Smash. Others, who weren't on Nintendo Console, can't join. (Sorry Kratos, but I'm doing this to make Smash Balanced)

 

[Geno Boost]

i am curious how would they be able to handle a story mode with more than 89 characters in the next game (if everyone comes back)
SSE was amazing so i am not sure if they will ever be able to surpass that
it would probably require a big fan fiction to be written

 

[Guynamednelson]

it would probably require a big fan fiction to be written

You do know why it's called FAN fiction, right?

 

[Geno Boost]

You do know why it's called FAN fiction, right?

yep much passion and dedication needed something a big fan might be capable of doing it

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

Yes you are 100% alone on this. Believe it or not people like their characters in their crossover fighting game to play like the characters they like. Just because you are upset that someone like Incineroar or Corrin made it in doesn't mean anything in the grand scheme of things. If I want say Dante in Smash, I would want Dante to feel like Dante. If I wanted Waluigi in Smash, I would want him to feel like Waluigi.

People like Ultimate. It is the most balanced game in the Smash series. While you think there are multiple poorly designed characters, in reality most of the roster is not only viable at a competitive level, they are soulful recreations of the character in question. Soul wise, even characters that are not that popular like Corrin or Incineroar hit the flavor and fantasy they are trying to sell. Both competitively and moveset wise, the vast majority of the roster is fine. Are there some that need some changes in the next game? Of course. Kirby and Ganon need a lot of TLC, and Plant certainly needs another round through the wringer balance wise. But I think that the vast majority of the roster is in a good spot, and the majority of the community would agree with me.

As for the idea that characters need their inclusion reconsidered, that is the dumbest thing I have ever seen. 99% of the time, the inclusions people want reconsidered are picks like Corrin, Incineroar, some clones, or third parites. But even them you are not getting addition by subtraction. You will not get Ashley in the game by cutting Incineroar. You will not get Skull Kid by cutting Corrin. You will not get Waluigi by cutting Sora. Game development just does not work like that, especially for Smash. Hell, Smash itself has always been apprehensive to cuts. Look at how we only had 5 cuts in brawl, three of which were planned to come back we know of. Look at in Smash 4 where there were 6 cuts, half of which due to tech issues and one of which came back as DLC. Smash avoids cuts anyway, so asking for something as unrealistic as this is a waste of time.

That'e not what I'm trying to argue, I'm trying to argue that certain characters - under the age of game accuracy-based moveset design - are inherently incompatible with Smash - I guess I should've named the name I was thinking of when I mentioned reconsidering inclusion: Min-Min. The gameplay of ARMS relies entirely on 1. the 3rd dimension and 2. both opponents having the same tools, and given just how much stage space you have to take up in it a character from it probably wouldn't even adapt well if moveset accuracy was ignored. Mega Man is another character I want to bring up, a character who could work super well in a platform fighter but the Smash take, in striving for accuracy, got real bad with basically nothing but projectiles. Of course Corrin didn't steal Dixie Kong's slot or whatever, I'm not talking about who gets in.

As a Waluigi supporter myself, the idea of a janky Mario Party-esque RNG moveset (at least a poorly done one) is the one thing that draws me away from him. I used to be a huge supporter of Jill Dozer and Crash Bandicoot, but knowing the Namco team would likely settle for an entirely multihit-based moveset with a shift up gimmick and a list of references to vehicle levels and power-ups respectively has really put me off them. I don't want to play as Crash Bandicoot as seen in Crash Bandicoot: Warped, because then I could just go play Warped, I want to play as a unique platform fighting character built using the right elements of Crash lore.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

I'm curious to see if we'd get a deeper story mode in the next game.

Subspace style, but with 2 possible things:

1) More characters than Brawl had

2) Maybe some dialogue besides KEPT YOU WAITING, HUH? as well as character development and arcs (e.g. a villain turns good and saves some fighters from some attack by a greater evil)

 

[Garteam]

I like the direction that recent Smash movesets have gone in, but I will fully admit that they are not for everyone. The reality is complexity comes with a learning curve that most in the cast do not possess. This is totally anecdotal, but I noticed that a lot of my friends have deliberately avoided many of the characters that have unique mechanics that need to be properly understood before you can play them effectively. They play one game with them, get their asses kicked because they couldn't fully understand their character, and then migrate back to a simpler character that is more intuitively appealing to them.
That's not to say that the new movesets are bad or anything like that. I really like how most of the DLC characters play (emphasis on most ). That being said, I do think there is an argument to be made that the next Smash game should have more deliberately simpler newcomers whose movesets aren't built around a central, unique mechanic.

 

[Dinoman96]

As a Waluigi supporter myself, the idea of a janky Mario Party-esque RNG moveset (at least a poorly done one) is the one thing that draws me away from him. I used to be a huge supporter of Jill Dozer and Crash Bandicoot, but knowing the Namco team would likely settle for an entirely multihit-based moveset with a shift up gimmick and a list of references to vehicle levels and power-ups respectively has really put me off them. I don't want to play as Crash Bandicoot as seen in Crash Bandicoot: Warped, because then I could just go play Warped, I want to play as a unique platform fighting character built using the right elements of Crash lore.

In Crash's case, I'm sure his moveset would be kept relatively simple, just as Banjo & Kazooie's were.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I like the direction that recent Smash movesets have gone in, I will fully admit that they are not for everyone. The reality is complexity comes with a learning curve that most in the cast do not possess. This is totally anecdotal, but I noticed that a lot of my friends have deliberately avoided many of the characters that have unique mechanics that need to be properly understood before you can play them effectively. They play one game with them, get their asses kicked because they couldn't fully understand their character, and then migrate back to a simpler character that is more intuitively appealing to them.
That's not to say that the new movesets are bad or anything like that. I really like how most of the DLC characters play (emphasis on most ). That being said, I do think there is an argument to be made that the next Smash game should have more deliberately simpler newcomers whose movesets aren't built around a central, unique mechanic.

I think Terry did incorporating mechanics from his own game right, in that they're completely optional besides him automatically facing his opponent in 1v1. You don't need to rely on his supers or the input versions of Burn Knuckle/Rising Tackle to kill, and Power Wave is only available as a Smash-style special anyway.

The other FG characters don't have it be as optional as Terry: You have to get used to Ryu/Ken's light and heavy tilt system, and you have to deal with Kazuya's Rage Drive if you wanna grab the opponent while under rage and will deal with doing a backwards tilt instead of a forward tilt in the opposite direction when the latter's what you want. And for that matter, his signature specials are only available as FG inputs.

 

[SPEN18]

99% of the time, the inclusions people want reconsidered are picks like Corrin, Incineroar, some clones, or third parites.

That's a bit of an overexaggeration since we've seen people advocate for all kinds of cuts ranging from Jigglypuff to Ice Climbers to Plant to even stuff like Mr. Game & Watch or R.O.B., for various reasons that I personally may or may not agree with.

Shill picks, clones, and third parties do indeed make up the majority of the asks for cuts, though. But what's wrong with having some semblance of agreement on what the targets for cuts should be, anyway? All your statement really proves is that there is often some logic behind the requests for cuts, and not just some random people choosing to hate on whatever specific characters they don't personally like.

you are not getting addition by subtraction. You will not get Ashley in the game by cutting Incineroar. You will not get Skull Kid by cutting Corrin. You will not get Waluigi by cutting Sora.

I mean, any character they choose not to make is a chunk of the time/money budget that they could use on something else. By default. Whether or not that means different playable characters depends on how significant the cuts are and a number of other factors including their overall vision for the game. But if you looked at the common targets for cuts and the reasons that people want cuts (beyond the shallower ones like "I just hate this particular character" or "my favorite didn't get in"), then you'd see that the prospect of getting something else instead is not even the only or main motivator for a lot of this anyway.

Smash itself has always been apprehensive to cuts

Sure, the history of cuts being on the rare side is a point against their likelihood. But I think that the uncertainties of having a roster as big as Ult's to carry over and the status of Sakurai as the future director mitigate a lot of it.

 

[AlRex]

On the subject of directly transmitting characters, I guess I'll say that Super Clash Bros. is a fan game that does that to an even more literal degree and it's pretty fun in its own way, just rather different from actual Smash because of that.

 

[Chuderz]

In Crash's case, I'm sure his moveset would be kept relatively simple, just as Banjo & Kazooie's were.

A perfect segway into my definitive "Let's give Banjo more stuff and improve his other stuff!" post! Also here's my packed moveset idea I constructed together for Crash by using other talented peoples' animations/video-archive work: https://smashboards.com/threads/nex...iscussion-thread.515747/page-29#post-24599158

Wonderwing system improvement:
You can now earn two more golden feathers for Banjo's wonderwing attack per stock! You just have to land two wonderwing attacks in a row! Any damage counts as a connect. If you miss (like using wonderwing purely as a recovery option for example) you get reset back to 0. You can do this twice per stock until it stops registering. When you earn the feather this jingle plays.

Jingle audio reference: https://youtu.be/yhwzqNicz34?t=82

Blue Egg Shot improvement:
Neutral-B needs to allow for double-quick consecutive egg shots before restarting the animation if you're to do it again. Doing this SLIGHTLY extends of attack animation of Neutral-B to afford time for the extra egg. Banjo fans know what I'm talking about. Where before Banjo starts holding Kazooie for the Breagull blaster. It's very similar functionality to a double jab input just with your special button instead.

Grenade Egg improvement:
Make the grenade egg last 1 second longer.

Alright now onto the new stuff for Banjo!

Clockwork Kazooie Egg Shield-B input:
Shield-B is Clockwork Kazooie eggs. Make it so that you have to hold the B button until the Clockwork egg is manufactured in the attack animation. This means you're very vulnerable (no shielding) while laying these eggs. If you let go of the B button before it's ready the Clockwork Kazooie egg will malfunction and not work. When it does work it functions EXACTLY as Bowser Jr.'s Down-Special. That means you can pick it up and throw it as well as let it cycle through its functionality phase. It's really just a reanimated version of that (Bowser Jr.'s) attack. The time it takes to get through the attack animation is about the same time it takes for Inkling's shield-B to go from empty to full ink storage.

New double aerial inputs:
Banjo & Kazooie get two new double aerial inputs furthering Sakurai's design philosophy of "two that fight as one" for them. The aerials receiving these new extra inputs will be Up-Air and Down-Air.

The first Up-Air input will be the one Banjo & Kazooie currently have already but when inputed again in quick succession after the first Banjo will do an aerial horizontal or somersault kick very similar to Zero Suit Samus and Mario. Kazooie fights first with the first input and then Banjo does this new kick for the second input hence two that fight as one is followed.

The new Down-Air input will be put into the first input this time. The new down air will be Banjo doing a double downward kick exactly like Piranha Plant and Dr. Mario. It will spike on the sweet spot. Then the second input in quick enough succession will be their usual Kazooie slam they currently have. Two fighting as one is followed.

These aerials also dig deeper into the idea that well Kazooie is a bird so their aerials can be a little bit more in-depth like this.

Conclusion:
Banjo & Kazooie could have had more stuff. Less simple but still simple and more stuff! The only other thing I could envision altering from what Sakurai gave us in the end would be their Down-Smash. Make it the Packwack like this guy is doing for his Brawl mod https://youtu.be/Op8etWmdp3A?t=136 but I'm also okay with the Down-Smash we got too. I'm just a lover of all things reference. If the packawack were to be the Down-Smash I'd want Kazooie to be visualized in someway during the attack.

 

[Perkilator]

In Crash's case, I'm sure his moveset would be kept relatively simple, just as Banjo & Kazooie's were.

Speaking of, what do you guys think of my Crash moveset?

Spoiler

Intro: Crash appears from a Time Twister portal and jumps into his fighting stance

Stance/Idle 1: His default idle animation from It’s About Time
Idle 2: Crash looks to either the left or the right
Idle 3: Crash looks to the screen and raises an eyebrow while smiling

Notable Palette Swaps:

1. Crash 4: It’s About Time (default)
2. Carbon Crash (gray)
3. Coco (blue/pink)
4. Dr. Neo Cortex (yellow/black)
5. Aku Aku (brown)
6. Crunch (red)
7. Warped Biker (alt 1)
8. Retro PS1 Crash (alt 2)

Walk: His walk from It’s About Time
Run: His iconic run from the N. Sane Trilogy
Dash: The Crash Dash
Damage: Crash spins for a split second, in a manner similar to his death animation from the very first game
Jump: His iconic Jump and Double Jump
Crouch: His crouch from the N. Sane Trilogy

Normal Attacks
Jab: Crash's 1-2 combo from the Titans games (4%, small knockback), followed by a brief spin attack (7%, small knockback)
Forward+A: Crash turns around and does a backwards kick (7%, OK knockback)
Down+A: Crash does a kick along the ground (4%, small knockback)
Up+A: Crash lunges his legs upwards (7%, small knockback)

Aerial Attacks
Air+A: Bandi-Copter; Crash turns sideways and spins in midair (8%, OK knockback)
Air Forward+A: Crash does a spin kick similar to Coco's spin in Wrath of Cortex (5%, small knockback)
Air Back + A: Crash does a pelvic thrust and kicks behind himself with both legs (11%, OK knockback)
Air Up+A: Crash does a quick spin with both arms in the air (6%, small knockback)
Air Down+A: Belly Flop; Crash extends his arms and legs as he falls to the ground (11% with a meteor effect, OK knockback), possibly burying opponents on contact

Dash Attack: Crash slides along the ground (7%, small knockback)
Edge Attack: A tiny TNT crate explodes under Crash and he flops up above the edge and back onto the stage (9%, OK knockback)
Get-Up Attack: Crash does a weak spin kick with both legs (7%, small knockback)

Smash Moves
Forward+A: Crash fires fruit juice from his Fruit Bazooka (23%, medium knockback)
Up+A: Crash fires fruit juice from his Fruit Bazooka above himself (21%, medium knockback)
Down+A: Spin Slide; Crash does a powerful spin kick along the ground (18%, medium knockback); he can move slightly left or right by tilting the control stick

Grab Game
Grab: Crash grabs the opponent’s shoulders
Pummel: Crash kisses the opponent (1%)
Forwards+Throw: Twin Throw; Crash spins forward and throws the opponent (8%, OK knockback)
Down+Throw: Crash ducks as three boxes fall down on the opponent (3% each, OK knockback)
Back+Throw: Reverse Twin Throw; Crash spins backwards and throws the opponent (8%, OK knockback)
Up+Throw: Crystal Craze; Crash lifts up a Crystal, and its shine pushes the opponent back (10%, OK knockback)

Special Moves
B & B + Forwards: Spin; Pressing B once performs a short, quick spin that reflects projectiles (10%, far knockback). Mashing B turns into the Death Tornado Spin (13%, OK knockback); not only is it faster, it can help Crash glide a good distance.
B + Up : TNT / Arrow Crate; Crash jumps off and drops a TNT Crate that goes off in a small area after 3 seconds, with the power and knockback depending on how long it's out on the stage. When a TNT Crate is already present, Crash instead jumps off a metal crate with an arrow that appears for a second; the jump height is doubled. In either case, Crash can move freely after using this special.
B + Down : Aku Aku; Crash Belly Flops into an Aku Aku Crate, summoning Aku Aku (who can only appear once per stock). If Aku Aku is already present or disappears, Crash simply Belly Flops onto the ground, causing a shockwave (8%, OK knockback).

Final Smash: Invincible Aku Aku; Crash dons a golden Aku Aku mask and is invincible for 10 seconds as Nitro crates fall on top of him, exploding in a large radius (25% each, far knockback)

Gimmick: Minor, but spread across his specials

• Crash's Spin has different properties. When it's a normal spin, being close enough to an opponent sends them flying. With the Death Tornado, the knockback remains the same and you can't reflect projectiles, but you also don't take damage.
• The TNT hits harder and launches farther depending on how long it's idle
  • If attacked with a 3, it causes a small explosion (6%, small knockback)
  • If attacked with a 2, it causes a regular explosion (9%, OK knockback)
  • If attacked with a 1, it causes a bigger explosion (19%, medium knockback)
  • If the countdown is allowed to finished, it causes a huge explosion (33%, far knockback)
• Aku Aku depends on how many hits Crash takes and the strength of enemy attacks
  • Reduces the damage taken from most attacks by ¼ or ⅓ depending on the power, but doesn’t disappear for a few hits
  • Halves the damage taken from especially powerful attacks and prevents knockback, but disappears immediately
  • After Aku Aku disappears, Crash is invincible for a bit. However, he can’t summon Aku Aku again until after he gets K.O.’d.

Crash also turns into an angel when he loses a Stamina battle.

Taunts:
1: Crash does the first part of his victory dance
2: Crash does the second part of his victory dance
1+2: Crash performs the final part of his victory dance

Winposes:
1: "Yeee-HAW!" Crash squats for a second, and then performs his victory animation against bosses in the very first game
2: Crash’s victory animation from It's About Time
3: Crash's post-gem collecting animation from the first game

Applause: Crash sports a disappointed look as boxes endlessly fall on his head
Icon: The “C” symbol from the Titans games
Boxing Ring Title: N. Sane Marsupial
Star K.O.: https://youtu.be/kADARuk5sg4?t=15
Victory Music: A shortened version of the Time Twister theme
Kirby Hat: A replica Aku Aku mask

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I think one reason I’m a bigger advocate of an Ultimate Deluxe is because I don’t want anyone to lose their favorites firstly but also there’s a lot of opportunities that just haven’t come to fruition that I’d love to see as a dream crossover Crash is a big one, Master Chief or Doom Slayer (or both) with the possibility of a Cortana Analysis or Sam Hayden/Vega Debrief is super cool especially for a possible Samus one, and Hayabusa finally making it in after so long, all there to fight Mario, Link, Snake, Sonic, Mega Man, Pac-Man, Ryu, Ken, Cloud, Simon, Richter, Bayonetta, Joker, Sephiroth, etc etc etc. Sure most of those characters are now pretty high priority to make it back in and I get that my mains probably won’t be cut.

But what about the people who just want to play Pichu vs Doom Slayer for the comedy or Chief vs Dark Samus? It’s dream matchups for individuals that kinda bum me out because I know how it feels.

I wanted to do NOTHING MORE than to have Snake fight Mega Man in Smash 4 but you know what? I had to wait 5 years for that to be a possibility but what if it never happened? It would’ve felt like such a missed opportunity and honestly, since I know how bad that sucked (and how high the possibility is that Sora might not even make it back) I don’t really want anyone to be bummed out like I was for so long.

Plus, cutting characters doesn’t automatically mean better online or trophies back or more stages or better single player or anything like that, no. It just means there’s less characters to choose from. All of it takes development time but who’s to say that Sakurai doesn’t instead cut characters to make a board game because, oh wait, that might’ve been the case. But honestly, who knows?

 

[ahemtoday]

Regarding the whole "characters should be reinterpretations instead of taking mechanics from their own games"... largely, I don't really agree. If you want Mega Man except a majority of his moves are punches and kicks, I'm not really certain why you would want Mega Man.

However, I do agree that a lot of people tend to undervalue aesthetic cohesion in a moveset. It's easy to pick and choose from a big list of references and try and cram in as much as possible, but if you do that too much in the wrong way you end up with a character that feels less like themselves instead of more. Imagine if every single one of Link's moves used a different item from the games. What is he then? He's barely a swordsman.

In other words, a moveset doesn't just need to say "look, it's this character", it needs to answer the question "who is this character?".

There's another point on which I kind of agree - I feel like a fair number of official movesets we've gotten recently have had mechanics that don't... actually need to be there? Like, if you lop them off, the movesets are perfectly fine and still representative of the character, but for some reason they just have this additional thing to them.

• Why does Inkling have limited ink? Is having limited ammo really that important of an aspect of Splatoon?
• Does Sephiroth actually need to have One-Winged Form? He feels completely fine without it.
• Why does Kazuya have a Rage Drive, a mechanic introduced 20 years into the series, when his moveset is pretty stacked as it is?
• Why does Cloud have a Limit Gauge? Aren't his specials already Limits?
• What are they going for with King K. Rool's weird belly armor management mechanic? Why can it crack? It seems like a weird thing to focus on when a lot of people kind of forgot his belly was supposed to even have armor for a while.
• Why does Joker's Persona... work like that? Like, at all? That's not how it works. It's just, like, made up. It's been squeezed into the mold of a comeback mechanic when that's really not what it is.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Yes you are 100% alone on this. Believe it or not people like their characters in their crossover fighting game to play like the characters they like.

Eh...not always.

Boy did I want Erdrick.

BOY do I never play Erdrick because of his awful "accurate" moveset.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Why does Kazuya have a Rage Drive, a mechanic introduced 20 years into the series, when his moveset is pretty stacked as it is?

To be fair, I think Tekken 7 helped Kazuya win over Jin, despite Jin also having the same Devil Gene solution to Sakurai's problem, because its story pushes Jin out of the spotlight to finish up Kazuya and Heihachi's conflict specifically. So if you're gonna pick a character because of T7, might as well have a T7 mechanic I guess.

That and for Jin the moveset would only be appropriate for him if he was ALWAYS in his Devil form.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Eh...not always.

Boy did I want Erdrick.

BOY do I never play Erdrick because of his awful "accurate" moveset.

Hey, it was either that or "another generic anime swordfighter". He was screwed either way.