Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Chuderz]

My dream game is a Smash Ultimate DX worked on proper like a Smash 6.

I don't think the idea cheapens Ultimate or is a waste of resources. I think it's a better way to conserve literal developmental resources while expanding upon Ultimate actually.

I don't know, it's way too early to speculate on and honestly I think a lot of Smash fans ARE pushing the idea of this Ultimate DX game. I'll always advocate for Ultimate DX but only if it's worked on properly like a true Smash 6 and in order for that to happen Sakurai would basically need to low-key start work on it in a couple of months. I wouldn't put it past him but I'm not going to actually expect it either. He's flat-out stated the opposite very recently. Maybe it's a purposeful misdirection? Maybe he doesn't know right now and will get Nintendo's full backing in the coming months? Who knows? I sure don't.

That all being said though I've put forward a lot of ideas about how to monetize it. Namely a double release strategy. Release Ultimate DX base game with numerous improvements and extra content but to have the complete game you'd need to buy 60$ expansion pack that's almost just as substantial with your third-party content and maybe some deep cut Nintendo goodies like Isaac or a Rhythm Heaven rep. It might be a little tricky balancing out what should be where but I think it'd be well worth the effort. The expansion pack must be substantial though or else the whole thing falls apart. It's like of like a homage to the double release strategy of Smash 4 except both purchases will combine into one super game this time around. It's just a thought really.

I personally think it'd be a waste to not go for it. There's even developmental work in Smash 4 and Brawl just idling in those dead games that I'd love for them to make use of! I also feel like "Everyone is Here" is like Smash itself's tagline haha. To leave it behind diminishes the game a lot.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I think it's a better way to conserve literal developmental resources

Which is kind of what they were doing on Ultimate already, and giving it plenty of time and money for the base game...and guess what the base game still couldn't do?

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Eh, at least it's not a Devil's Third port. Remember THAT one?

So that’s why the Devil’s Third spirits were cut /hj

 

[Chuderz]

Which is kind of what they were doing on Ultimate already, and giving it plenty of time and money for the base game...and guess what the base game still couldn't do?

I think an Ultimate DX would literally conserve all the more resources than the transition from 4 to Ult. It kind of lends credence to the idea of perpetual development because each iteration would start more substantial than the last. Also Sakurai flatout calls out the constrictions of the budget every chance he gets. He's done it basically every year of Ultimate's actual development before release and post-launch, the Harada interview and literally during the final presentation.

If Ultimate DX were to happen then presumably legal work would take up more of the budget that's obvious but you'd still save on all of Ultimate's content being pre-established.

I'm thinking that a Smash on the next Nintendo console is a given. Now we just have to know whether that console is backward compatible or not because if it's not then Ultimate DX not only makes more sense to do but also it becomes more necessary for it to release earlier in the system's lifecycle. If the successor to the Switch is backward compatible then that urgency is somewhat diminished but Ultimate DX still would make sense and have its own merits though the next entry of Smash, regardless of what it is, could be released more or less in the middle of the lifecycle.

Who knows? I don't know. I don't really argue Ultimate DX IS happening or expect it to but rather I just argue against the people saying it makes no sense or is a bad idea. That's all.

 

[CheeseAnton]

I kind of felt like doing it now, so here's what I want the most in a future smash game. I want to make Mii Fighters more in-depth.

Right now, it's fine, but I never got to express creativity in them, most I can do is make a miss matched hat and costume with a weird face and bad specials, I want way more than that.

Basically my impossible idea is to have way more items of clothing (hat, face, shirt, jacket, pants, shoes, weapon, back accessory), way more moves to chose from (like, 5 attacks for one aerial), and even this effect system where you can alter the moves you have and give them properties (like the Mii Swordfighter neutral that sends a hurricane forward, what if in this effect system you could make it be surrounded by lighting and it has a stun effect but it doesn't go as far, something like that).

Sure, it'd be horrifically unbalanced, but that's the fun about it. Instead of making "Dante" with that Mii Outfit and the tutorial on how to make a Dante Mii, what if I could make a new character that's a Lighting Wizard with the agility to do backflips in the air and that can send lighting bolts across the stage. Also, you could still make characters not fortunate enough to get an actual fighter more accurately (allow Dante to have both Guns and Swords instead of being an exclusive Mii Swordfighter as an example).


I just want to be able to have fun in making a Mii Fighter and playing them, instead of "I guess this is Shantae" and forget about them. It doesn't need to be this crazy, I just want more out of making a Mii Fighter.

 

[Sucumbio]

Did you think getting EVERYBODY back in Ultimate was an overall poor idea?

Not at all. I think it's obvious based on Sakurai's own statements that they set out to accomplish an amazing task and succeeded. I'm grateful for Ultimate. It's got the most to offer in terms of playable characters, it's game engine is absolutely the best balanced smash engine to date, and it fulfilled the hopes and dreams of mostly everyone who ever wanted a character of their choice in the game.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Speaking of budget

I do appreciate that the DLC trailers this time allowed for CGI and/or stylized animation

In 4 it was just edited gameplay footage. All of it, for DLC. CGI was only for base game characters

 

[SPEN18]

I think some people are critically overestimating the desirability of porting substantial assets onto new hardware, especially in place of a fully-fledged new experience. Ultimate is highly unlikely to retain the same shine graphically and mechanically even just 5 or so years from now. And ports or upgraded rereleases are just generally not what's going to form the backbone of a hardware sales push unless you manage to immediately and completely dwarf the old platform with the new one, which is exceptionally hard unless you have a particularly unique situation like with Wii U to Switch.

I understand that people want to see Smash continue to build on what it has now, that people are afraid of getting certain characters cut, and that veteran-pandering has been indulged to a maximum degree over the last few years. But it's hard to properly build unless you have a firm foundation, which I think EiH flatly failed to establish: it failed to properly reevaluate each and every character's role both in Smash and in Nintendo history at large before sending everything together into a package deal; considerations of roster balance, series representation, and fairness to candidate newcomers went out the window, among other things. Even a lot of the proponents of EiH I think would admit that it is a tricky and restrictive template to start with, design-wise.
And while the potential for losing any particular character can be scary, when given the chance it is important to consider how things could be done differently; I think some of this over-attachment to 100% retainment of veterans has blinded some people to other possibilities that they themselves might like better than what we currently have.

 

[CureParfait]

Speaking of Miis, hopefully the Miis for Smash 6 can have more customization kind of like the Miitopia for Switch customization.

 

[Tankman from Newgrounds]

Speaking of Miis, hopefully the Miis for Smash 6 can have more customization kind of like the Miitopia for Switch customization.

I hope so, man.
Because if it was in Smash 6, I'll definitely gonna buy this game if it was released.

 

[Hippieslayer]

Deluxe port with halfed input delay and proper buffering system? And rollback? Yes please. Otherwise no.

 

[Yamat08]

I want Barret and Tifa. Barret has earned it just as much as she has. I wish more people were rooting for Barret. He's the best.

I think the best argument for putting more Final Fantasy 7 party members forward into fully-fledged fighters is that they can reuse the limit mechanic Cloud has. Barret and Tifa should at least be considered fair contenders. Would be a neat little parallel between Mii Swordfighter, Gunner and Brawler with Cloud, Barret, and Tifa I think.

Another FF7 character getting in "not going over well" would be in such a small community of players/fans that it hardly matters. It would go over just fine. Most people would recognize the character and go "WOW I get to play as Tifa vs Cloud vs Sephiroth now! That's sooooo coool!!! Hooray!" and that'd be that. Lots of the people upset about another FF7 addition were the ones gatekeeping Cloud in the first place over silly "muh Nintendo consoles" for years despite his iconic status.

I personally think all the party members have merit with the exception of Cait-Sith who would just be put on Red Xlll's back. It's definitely my most unpopular Smash opinion but I'd put the entire party of FF7 into Smash if I could. I love them all. No lie it's pure nostalgia. Banjo-Kazooie was the first game I ever beat but Final Fantasy 7 has to be in the first 5 or 10 after that. I know that them all being in Smash will never happen but putting aside that acknowledgment of fact I still don't think Barret, Tifa and possibly Aerith (she'd make way more sense as an AT considering all her limits are heals) should be considered oversaturation of the series' representation. All of these characters have earned their place in video game iconography.

I feel like Final Fantasy characters 1-5 have absolutely no business being fully-fledged fighters outside of potential fan mods. Final Fantasy 6 could represent the Nintendo era of Final Fantasy just fine and could even come with the music from 1-5 as well. Terra and Kefka please.

By that logic, why not just include the entire Street Fighter 2 roster? You can argue iconicness of a game's entire cast all you want, but at the end of the day, there needs to be a limit. Even Dissidia has enough sense not to completely overcrowd the roster with just VII or any other single entry, so one should expect a massive crossover of roughly 40 other playable FRANCHISES (not just singular games) to show a similar amount of restraint.

And for the record, I do think Final Fantasy is a franchise that's major enough to rise above the other third-parties to have earned its second rep, and could even earn a third rep. But a third rep from the same damn game? While the rest of the entire series continues to get screwed over? Yeah, to hell with that. I'm going to be blunt: any suggestion I see for Tifa, or Aerith, or Barret, or Yuffie, or Vincent, or whoever, it all makes me sick. I don't care how iconic VII alone is. Between its two unique characters, two stages, three Mii costumes, and now a somewhat decent selection of 11 music tracks, it already has more content in Smash than almost every other third-party franchise, despite being a single entry in a series. And you still think it should get more? Though, I could get with you on the same page about 6. I would say you're being a bit too dismissive of the other entries (especially 4), but 6 is my personal favorite.

Sephiroth was probably their way to compromise with Squenix so "Everyone Is Here" can mean EVERYONE, including Cloud. If they're gonna do EIH again, that means having to make even more compromises with Squenix. So enjoy Tifa, Slime, and Roxas if you REALLY want everyone to come back without having to pay extra for Cloud, Hero, Sephiroth, and Sora.

But why does it NEED to be more Final Fantasy VII characters? You even listed off characters from other franchises that Squenix could use if they ever needed some kind of DLC leverage.

Third character of the same game, and that's never seen before in Smash Bros you mean?

As early as Melee, we've had 5 playable characters from Zelda Ocarina of Time
As of Ultimate, 6 characters from Pokemon Red / Blue / Yellow, 3 from Fire Emblem Awakening, 3 from Donkey Kong Country 1.

So yeah, I do think Tifa is the frontrunner for a 3rd FF character. Not that I expect one, but still.

One, those are first-party franchises, so Nintendo has way more leeway in how to use them. Two, they're characters who go on to appear in the rest of the franchise as opposed to being tied down to a single entry. The only ones you could really make a case for are the Awakening characters (who ARE controversial as is), and the Ocarina of Time designs in Melee.

Has anyone been talking about how the "Next Smash" should actually be a Deluxe port of SSBU?
This is the best way to get everyone back.

I mean, I'd like our voices loud and clear that we want everyone back and that the Smash port on the future 4K console would make more sense.

Where have you been for the last 100 pages? Discussion about a potential "Deluxe" Ultimate has come up several times now.

To me a deluxe port is just going backwards or redundant. Ultimate for Switch IS the high point. To release it again may be easier than a fresh new title but why do it? It seems like the only reason to even want it is to nurture an unhealthy hope that "this time around" they can add the one or two things that person didn't get in Ultimate. Like okay we get it Ultimate didn't (and never could have) please everyone. It's time to move on from this mindset honestly. We should embrace the notion that Sakurai's gonna take a nice long break from Smash and videogames in general and if/when he returns the new game won't be another Ultimate (which honestly to me is insulting to even entertain as it cheapens what they did actually accomplish) but will be a whole new experience with online hopefully being a much stronger focus.

The way I see it, those "one or two things" we didn't get are actually some pretty major flaws that hold back an otherwise great concept. And really, Ultimate's already laid out a fantastic foundation, yet it seems like such a waste to leave it in its current state, with its input lag, shoddy online, repetitive single-player, and other flaws. I do agree that there should be a point where they should just move on (though granted, Smash in general never had much in terms of completely foundational shifts), but here, I genuinely feel like it's gotten so close, only to sorta stumble at the finish line.

My dream game is a Smash Ultimate DX worked on proper like a Smash 6.

I don't think the idea cheapens Ultimate or is a waste of resources. I think it's a better way to conserve literal developmental resources while expanding upon Ultimate actually.

When you think about it, Ultimate is already a deluxe version of Smash4 while managing to feel like a proper successor. I'm sure all the previous Smash titles likewise re-used some assets from the entries that came before them. So yeah, the idea of an "Ultimate DX" gaining its own identity as a Smash6 doesn't seem too out there.

 

[Trevenant]

Just gotta point out that all this port stuff started with a user who suggested kickstarters and fan donations as a way to fund a hypothetical Ultimate 2 despite joining in 2014... And started citing stuff that read like inspirational movie quotes to individual users in an attempt to convince them lol...

 

[Tankman from Newgrounds]

Just gotta point out that all this port stuff started with a user who suggested kickstarters and fan donations as a way to fund a hypothetical Ultimate 2 despite joining in 2014... And started citing stuff that read like inspirational movie quotes to individual users in an attempt to convince them lol...

Huh, weird and Interesting.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I think an Ultimate DX would literally conserve all the more resources than the transition from 4 to Ult.

In some ways, maybe, but after Pythra has been shown to be a super dominant character lately, the devs are still going to be spending a lot of time trying to reblance characters, which is excruciatingly painful enough when the roster is as big as it is already.

Also Sakurai flatout calls out the constrictions of the budget every chance he gets

And there's a reason he has to stick with a lower-but-apparently-not-small-enough-to-prevent-DLC-from-being-the-way-it-was budget: Nintendo doesn't just want to fund Smash, Smash, and Smash. Like it or not, they still want to earn money from Mario, Pokemon, Zelda, DK, Xenoblade, Kirby, Animal Crossing, Picross, whatever IPs get created or revived, and yes, even Fire Emblem games. Continuing to make games in those series is a more surefire way to ensure you're specifically getting Mario/Pokemon/Zelda/etc. bucks than their appearances in Smash.

And quite frankly his budget isn't even that small if SSBU turned out the way it did in total.

 

[Tankman from Newgrounds]

In some ways, maybe, but after Pythra has been shown to be a super dominant character lately, the devs are still going to be spending a lot of time trying to reblance characters, which is excruciatingly painful enough when the roster is as big as it is already.

And there's a reason he has to stick with a lower-but-apparently-not-small-enough-to-prevent-DLC-from-being-the-way-it-was budget: Nintendo doesn't just want to fund Smash, Smash, and Smash. Like it or not, they still want to earn money from Mario, Pokemon, Zelda, DK, Xenoblade, Kirby, Animal Crossing, Picross, whatever IPs get created or revived, and yes, even Fire Emblem games. Continuing to make games in those series is a more surefire way to ensure you're specifically getting Mario/Pokemon/Zelda/etc. bucks than their appearances in Smash.

And quite frankly his budget isn't even that small if SSBU turned out the way it did in total.

The thing what you said was smart.
Because Nintendo needs to stick to to Games with that Budget. They still get money after revealing characters for Smash.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Has anyone been talking about how the "Next Smash" should actually be a Deluxe port of SSBU?
This is the best way to get everyone back.

Yes. Lots of us.

That's just random cap spam that reads like a movie quote

And yet, every word was correct.

Edea or bust.

Mrgrgr...

Again, I ALREADY TOLD YOU, there's more to a game than its roster size.

Yes, but, Ultimate already has all of THOSE as well(other than good netcode). Which is why "Ultimate Deluxe. Now with more stuff(and better netcorde)!" is the correct path.

Bringing back the entire roster of Ultimate is a long shot and a poor use of budget. I'd much rather them scrap half the cast and make the game's online mode competitively viable.

Those things aren't even REMOTELY mutually exclusive.

The best damn netcode on the planet is goddamn open source and free. Nintendo just has to not be ***holes long enough to use it.

This, because it means it's more likely we'll actually get more newcomers and side content in the base game, because they aren't spending resources on balancing and bugfixes for an 80+ character roster.

This is just a stupid conclusion. Because it ignores the fact that in a new game, they'd be building EVERY character from scratch, instead of using everything Ultimate already did as a starting point. You suggestion is actually WAY more development resources.

Pretty much. Smash Ultimate had barely any new content at launch

Who cares? It still ended with more new content than any other Smash game.

 

[Tankman from Newgrounds]

Yes. Lots of us.

And yet, every word was correct.

Mrgrgr...

Yes, but, Ultimate already has all of THOSE as well(other than good netcode). Which is why "Ultimate Deluxe. Now with more stuff(and better netcorde)!" is the correct path.

1. Exactly. We might get Smash Ultimate DX Port.

2. Yup. Just like you said.

3. Eh. Bust.

4. You're Right.

I hope we might get More Bosses in Smash Ultimate DX Port.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Just gotta point out that all this port stuff started with a user who suggested kickstarters and fan donations as a way to fund a hypothetical Ultimate 2 despite joining in 2014... And started citing stuff that read like inspirational movie quotes to individual users in an attempt to convince them lol...

Way to be historically revisionist, because this idea had been floated since arguably Smash 4.

There was a sizeable contingent of people in Smash 4 that were saying the next game would likely be at least partly a Smash 4 port. Which we kind of got. Literally as soon as Ultimate came out and was announced, you had people asking for a port. You can't pin the desire for a port on one guy. It has been around for a while due to many being content with what got, becoming even louder due to Ultimate having a much broader reach than Smash 4. You could just as easily pin the Nintendo All Stars mantra on an open white supremacist who literally advocated cutting Pac Man for not being pure enough in terms of his Nintendo connections. It's easy to pin an idea you don't like on one person that is an easy target.

In some ways, maybe, but after Pythra has been shown to be a super dominant character lately, the devs are still going to be spending a lot of time trying to reblance characters, which is excruciatingly painful enough when the roster is as big as it is already.

And there's a reason he has to stick with a lower-but-apparently-not-small-enough-to-prevent-DLC-from-being-the-way-it-was budget: Nintendo doesn't just want to fund Smash, Smash, and Smash. Like it or not, they still want to earn money from Mario, Pokemon, Zelda, DK, Xenoblade, Kirby, Animal Crossing, Picross, whatever IPs get created or revived, and yes, even Fire Emblem games. Continuing to make games in those series is a more surefire way to ensure you're specifically getting Mario/Pokemon/Zelda/etc. bucks than their appearances in Smash.

And quite frankly his budget isn't even that small if SSBU turned out the way it did in total.

Even putting aside that Aegis is the most consistently overrated character in the game right now, you are being super reductionist.

Ultimate is far and away the most balanced Smash game. It's telling in ultimate that the lion's share of the cast is balanced, despite what you may hear people say. You do not have a completely centralized meta due to a small handful of characters. Is Aegis good? Yes, but the counterplay to Aegis still needs to adapt and they are just one of several great characters. 99% of the Aegis fear mongering is twitter just being moronic because Leo has an aegis secondary and Cosmos and Sparg0 have been grinding the character. Yes, the character is good, but all three of those players were already top players.

Compare Ultimate to Melee, where at best less than half of the roster is viable. Or Brawl or Sm4sh where that number shrinks even more due to how centralizing the meta is. Ultimate has a diverse meta where you could go into tournaments with almost anyone and it is a feasible task. Just taking salt over one character being good is not a reason to say that characters should be cut for balance reasons. If the smash game with far and away the largest roster is this well balanced, it probably is not the best idea to use balance as part of your agenda.


--------------

The one thing I find that people fear mongering over the idea of an Ultimate DX is that a port would save resources. People love to act like Ultimate lacked content due to its messy online, lack of new stages or characters, and a lack of trophies, but that could not be further from the truth. We got 50+ stages brought back in HD, meaning they had to be done more or less from scratch. Given that they could not use Brawl era data for anyone and the only character with much work done on them that came back was Ice Climbers, we got a healthy roster of new characters compared to 4. We got Spirits, a fair replacement for trophies that are much easier on the localization teams while giving fun encounters remenicent of moments in gaming. We got a whole game mode around using Spirits for gameplay purposes. We got a whole Story mode campaign for the first time since Brawl. We got individualized Classic modes, something people have been asking for for a long time. Hell, I will say it: we got improved Online from Smash 4. Smash Ultimate.

Ultimate was able to deliver a lot of content. Sure, we had to get Stage Builder and Home Run Contest back through patches, but the amount of content in Ultimate compared to 4 is more than enough especially when you consider the fact that this game started development past the planning stages in April 2016. In ~2 and a half years, we got all this content. If you want to have more content, then just don't re invent the wheel. Balance as I illustrated above is not the biggest concern considering how well the balance team has done. You already got a large amount of new content for the base game even in Spite of Everyone is Here. 13 distinct characters brought in that were not in the past game, not including echo fighters. 50+ stages not in the Wii U version that had to be done from scratch in HD. A story mode campaign. A whole new game mode. Individualized classic modes full of fun references. Even the online lobbying system improved. People keep acting like Ultimate had almost no new content by doing EiH when that could not be further from the truth.

Now, if you did a port, you might have to keep some expectations in check. Anywhere from 8-13 new characters would make sense for the base game going by what Ultimate got. While EiH did take up resources, its clear that a good chunk of those resource went towards cut vets instead of characters they could save work on that were in 4. If we do get an Ultimate DX, it would likely be the same if not more apparent. We could see some new modes, better online, and a solid number of new stages. Not the 50+ Ultimate got in HD, but still a sizeable number of new stages. Some things likely will never come back. Trophies, as I discussed multiple times, are a relic of the past and a massive burden on localization. At best, you would see Trophies for the fighters only, which while adding a little bit of localization is not out of the question considering they do basically have mini trophies in the Tips section. But having a game with everyone back and a sizeable amount of new content I think is the method that would please the most people. Heck, you could say even Sakurai thinks bringing characters back is what would please the most people. He stressed that due to the ballot no cuts was a priority, and even in his latest interview on the topic he said that cuts might not be what fans want.

Could cuts happen? Sure. Maybe porting everyone over to the base game is too hard. Maybe Disney takes their ball and leaves. Who knows what goes on behind closed doors. But I think if we do get cuts, its in the single digits at most. Smash has historically avoided cuts. Only five characters were cut going into Brawl, and we know that three of them were planned to return. From Brawl to 4, six characters were cut. One came back as DLC and three were cut due to tech limitations. Heck, Smash 4 brought back the two most popular cut vets from Melee. It is clear going by precedent and what Sakurai deems people want that cuts are the exception, not the norm. Will cuts happen? I don't know, but if they do I would not bet on a large swath of cuts to appease a vocal minority. Anyone expecting the roster to be thanos snapped for some reason is going to be disappointed.

 

[Geno Boost]

A 3rd FF7 rep in the next smash isn’t impossible I know Square-enix likes milking it a lot but I think it’s kinda unfair to ignore the rest of the FF games and other Square-enix franchises just for another FF7 rep to take on the spotlight.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

A 3rd FF7 rep in the next smash isn’t impossible I know Square-enix likes milking it a lot but I think it’s kinda unfair to ignore the rest of the FF games and other Square-enix franchises just for another FF7 rep to take on the spotlight.

I think tbh the odds of us getting non FF7 content are slim, but I would appreciate at least spirits from the other games.

If you want a dark horse Square rep no one is talking about: Lara Croft. Given the direction Smash has gone and the way Square has chosen its third parties she makes a ton of sense. Tomb Raider is a massive franchise with a huge legacy. It had a big revival in the 2010s, it could easily end up being Square's next rep if they get another one.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I do appreciate that the DLC trailers this time allowed for CGI and/or stylized animation

In 4 it was just edited gameplay footage. All of it, for DLC. CGI was only for base game characters

It's because Sakurai finally realized what the biggest events in Smash are. And also, that they're the closest he's gonna get to SSE cutscenes that people actually care about.

Also Sakurai flatout calls out the constrictions of the budget every chance he gets.

He's probably trying to shame Nintendo into increasing his budget.

"We were all happy to hear that Smash Ultimate is now the best selling fighting game of all time!

Anyway, I'm here talking to you again from my basement..."

 

[Tankman from Newgrounds]

Any story mode predictions?
Because I have some, but they Regard about bosses:

• Unknown Villain
• Master Hand
• Crazy Hand
• Giga Bowser
• Calamity Ganon
• Mother Brain
• Marx
• Aparoid Queen
• Eternatus
• DJ Octavio
• Grima
• Duon
• Galleom
• Dr. Eggman
• Dracula
• Rathalos
• Giga Mermaid (Shantae)

 

[Trevenant]

Way to be historically revisionist, because this idea had been floated since arguably Smash 4.

The idea of kickstarters? Or something else? Cos I was just referring to this sorta stuff which the user literally mentioned like less than a day ago:

THEN REALLY REALLY REALLY PUSH THEM TO MAKE SMASH 6 WITH EVERYONE RETURNING. BOOST THEIR BUDGET, PUSH THE LIMITS, AND MAKE SMASH 6 EVEN MORE ULTIMATE THAN THE LATEST GAME. I BEG YOU PLEASE. YOU'LL REGRET IT IF YOU DON'T TRY. DON'T BELIEVE IT WON'T HAPPEN. YOU HAVE TO DO IT. TRUST ME. WOULD YOU RATHER DO THAT OR JUST LAY AROUND DOING NOTHING AND YOU'RE LIKELY GONNA GET FEWER STUFF. DO YOU UNDERSTAND? YOU CAN DO IT. YES, YOU CAN. PUSH HARD. DON'T GIVE UP.

No! I don't understand! I'd rather you fundraise Sakurai so that Nintendo doesn't have to. Smash really needs a stronger budget in order to compete with something like Fortnite. Do you really want Sakurai to POOR compared to Fortnite? Do you really want a few characters to not return? Do you seriously want Smash 6 to be less Ultimate? C'mon! If you want Smash 6 to be the greatest Smash possible, you need to get off your *** and donate like crazy to Sakurai to boost his budget. It's not just Nintendo who should set up the budget, it's us too.
Can you at least try this even if you doubt it'll work?
You'll be sorry if you don't.

Do you not trust me?

Do you not want the Smash budget to be similar to Fortnite?
Do younot want everyone to be back?
Do you not care who gets cut?
Do you not care if Smash 6 is less Ultimate than the previous one?

How about next game, Palutena's Guidance doesn't return at all? Not even for characters it's been used for?


That'll minimize costs.

How about this:
Only first party fighters (at least in the base roster)
Palutena's Guidance is cut completely and replaced with something that doesn't require voice actors (like Splatoon or ARMS)
Focus on online viability
A story on par with Subspace Emissary
More Single Player activities
etc.

Maybe you didn't mean to quote me lol... But if you mean the idea of a port being commonly discussed, then even during smash 4 I think that was pretty obvious lol... I was referring to this certain instance, where the user also said stuff like Palutena's guidance being cut would apparently have any kind of impact on how much they are able to include in a hypothetical sequel, when of course that's not how it works lol... That's also not even considering the ridiculous fortnite comparisons lmao...

And yet, every word was correct.

No I think the point was it wasn't... Cos the user was making that comment to one specific user in order to try and convince them to fund a Kickstarter for an Ultimate sequel lol... I don't think I need to point out why that was absurd within the context it was said in...

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Any story mode predictions?
Because I have some, but they Regard about bosses:

• Unknown Villain
• Master Hand
• Crazy Hand
• Giga Bowser
• Calamity Ganon
• Mother Brain
• Marx
• Aparoid Queen
• Eternatus
• DJ Octavio
• Grima
• Duon
• Galleom
• Dr. Eggman
• Dracula
• Rathalos
• Giga Mermaid (Shantae)

I'm surprised you did not go with Andross as the villain for Star Fox in the story mode to be honest, it makes a ton of sense to go with.

Here are a few more I would do myself, not going to mention picks that I think could be fun to see like Eternatus, Mother Brain, Grima, or Ocvavio I agree with that you listed.

• Darkside
• The Reaper (Persona 5)
• Gruntilda
• Upgrading Dark Emperor, Metal Face, and Yellow Devil to full on bosses
• Porky
• Metal Gear REX
• Jena Anderson (Astral Chain)
• Dragaux
• Fusion Dragon (Golden Sun)

 

[Tankman from Newgrounds]

I'm surprised you did not go with Andross as the villain for Star Fox in the story mode to be honest, it makes a ton of sense to go with.

Here are a few more I would do myself, not going to mention picks that I think could be fun to see like Eternatus, Mother Brain, Grima, or Ocvavio I agree with that you listed.

• Darkside
• The Reaper (Persona 5)
• Gruntilda
• Upgrading Dark Emperor, Metal Face, and Yellow Devil to full on bosses
• Porky
• Metal Gear REX
• Jena Anderson (Astral Chain)
• Dragaux
• Fusion Dragon (Golden Sun)

I mean, Andross would be just Lazy copy of Master Hand and Crazy Hand mixed with Andross AT.
So, I went with Aparoid Queen, since her Boss moveset could be unique.
(Unless Andross could work as Boss, but he could be also Playable if you beat his Boss version of Him like beating giga Bowser to unlock Bowser.)

But overall, Boss suggestions are good.

 

[Trevenant]

TBH on the topic of bosses, I never really liked how bosses worked in smash much... They're pretty much giant punching bags that relent at you with broken moves until you get them down to a certain amount of health, rinse and repeat until you're done... I always thought something like a full on duel with a character built more to scale with the current roster... Imagine if the black knight AT had a few extra attacks, and played like a level 9 cpu or something and you fought them in a duel... I get why they go with the approach they go with now cos it's just way easier to design but something like that could be way more interesting if done right... Possible exception is something like a boss where the stage itself is the boss, so like master fortress from smash 4...

 

[Sucumbio]

The way I see it, those "one or two things" we didn't get are actually some pretty major flaws that hold back an otherwise great concept. And really, Ultimate's already laid out a fantastic foundation, yet it seems like such a waste to leave it in its current state, with its input lag, shoddy online, repetitive single-player, and other flaws. I do agree that there should be a point where they should just move on (though granted, Smash in general never had much in terms of completely foundational shifts), but here, I genuinely feel like it's gotten so close, only to sorta stumble at the finish line.

Let me ask what you think these oversights really are? Because I feel it's nitpicking. Input lag? A deluxe won't remove that because it's literally built into the engine on purpose... It was intentional not an oversight. Missing 1 player modes? Again with an 80 character roster I'm convinced they didn't have enough gamespace to include legacy modes. Maybe these modes are heavily missed I'll agree but Target Test isn't enough to warrant a port.

In fact I'm sensing people are expecting a port to even have these missing elements? AND more newcomers so bumping the roster to 90 or whatever? Nah man if it's a port then it'll literally be a copy of the game just on a new console.

I realize this is pure conjecture because we don't even know what the next system will be, what it'll be capable of, how different it'll be developing wise .... Too many questions that have to be answered before the idea of a port is even viable. But a new game that's easy to predict.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Because I have some, but they Regard about bosses:

• Unknown Villain
• Master Hand
• Crazy Hand
• Giga Bowser
• Calamity Ganon
• Mother Brain
• Marx
• Aparoid Queen
• Eternatus
• DJ Octavio
• Grima
• Duon
• Galleom
• Dr. Eggman
• Dracula
• Rathalos
• Giga Mermaid (Shantae)

Boss Wishlist:
Mother Brain [Metroid]
Andross(N64 version) [Star Fox]
Arceus [Pokemon]
Porky [Earthbound]
Medusa [Kid Icarus]
Liquid Snake piloting Metal Gear REX [Metal Gear]
Eggman piloting Death Egg Robot [Sonic the Hedgehog]
Dr. Wily piloting Wily Machine [Mega Man]
Safer∙Sephiroth [Final Fantasy]

Cos the user was making that comment to one specific user in order to try and convince them to fund a Kickstarter for an Ultimate sequel lol... I don't think I need to point out why that was absurd within the context it was said in...

Shutup! Just give them the money! Everyone is always here!

TBH on the topic of bosses, I never really liked how bosses worked in smash much... They're pretty much giant punching bags that relent at you with broken moves until you get them down to a certain amount of health, rinse and repeat until you're done...

AKA, video game bosses.

I always thought something like a full on duel with a character built more to scale with the current roster... Imagine if the black knight AT had a few extra attacks, and played like a level 9 cpu or something and you fought them in a duel...

If you made a player scaled character with a full moveset...why wouldn't you just make that a playable character?

 

[Tankman from Newgrounds]

Boss Wishlist:
Mother Brain [Metroid]
Andross(N64 version) [Star Fox] - Becomes playable after being Defeated in Story Mode.
Arceus [Pokemon]
Porky [Earthbound]
Medusa [Kid Icarus]
Liquid Snake piloting Metal Gear REX [Metal Gear]
Eggman piloting Death Egg Robot [Sonic the Hedgehog]
Dr. Wily piloting Wily Machine [Mega Man]
Safer∙Sephiroth [Final Fantasy]

Shutup! Just give them the money! Everyone is always here!

AKA, video game bosses.

If you made a player scaled character with a full moveset...why wouldn't you just make that a playable character?

Fixed, Andross also becomes a Fighter after killing his Boss version of him.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Eggman piloting Death Egg Robot [Sonic the Hedgehog]
Dr. Wily piloting Wily Machine [Mega Man]

This really should have been a thing in Ultimate.
Eggman as a smash boss just makes so much sense.

 

[Trevenant]

Boss Wishlist:
Mother Brain [Metroid]
Andross(N64 version) [Star Fox]
Arceus [Pokemon]
Porky [Earthbound]
Medusa [Kid Icarus]
Liquid Snake piloting Metal Gear REX [Metal Gear]
Eggman piloting Death Egg Robot [Sonic the Hedgehog]
Dr. Wily piloting Wily Machine [Mega Man]
Safer∙Sephiroth [Final Fantasy]

Shutup! Just give them the money! Everyone is always here!

AKA, video game bosses.

If you made a player scaled character with a full moveset...why wouldn't you just make that a playable character?

I mean, I'd agree on any other day, but when it involves kickstarters then I wouldn't lmao. It's a frankly naive and kinda childish suggestion TBH lol to think a kickstarter could somehow get even one individual user to back it, let alone having Nintendo accept it when it's probably illegal for them to do so, especially when they just don't need it... If they don't do another Ultimate, I'm sure they'd have a good enough reason lol, even if it's just that they didn't wanna sell an arm and a leg to get a couple characters back lol... Yeah, I guess they're video game bosses, but since Smash is a fighting game, something more like a level 9 CPU... And I made sure to not say full moveset... Assist trophies still have less moves than bosses, so giving Black Knight like 5 or so extra moves would still be within the realm of a boss...

 

[Chuderz]

By that logic, why not just include the entire Street Fighter 2 roster? You can argue iconicness of a game's entire cast all you want, but at the end of the day, there needs to be a limit. Even Dissidia has enough sense not to completely overcrowd the roster with just VII or any other single entry, so one should expect a massive crossover of roughly 40 other playable FRANCHISES (not just singular games) to show a similar amount of restraint.

And for the record, I do think Final Fantasy is a franchise that's major enough to rise above the other third-parties to have earned its second rep, and could even earn a third rep. But a third rep from the same damn game? While the rest of the entire series continues to get screwed over? Yeah, to hell with that. I'm going to be blunt: any suggestion I see for Tifa, or Aerith, or Barret, or Yuffie, or Vincent, or whoever, it all makes me sick. I don't care how iconic VII alone is. Between its two unique characters, two stages, three Mii costumes, and now a somewhat decent selection of 11 music tracks, it already has more content in Smash than almost every other third-party franchise, despite being a single entry in a series. And you still think it should get more? Though, I could get with you on the same page about 6. I would say you're being a bit too dismissive of the other entries (especially 4), but 6 is my personal favorite.

Well people are pushing for Chun-Li. I personally think Akuma could make for a nice semiclone and M. Bison stands tall as an iconic video game villain. That would be my personal limit on Street Fighter as much as there is still plenty of beloved characters even then but the rest, as much as they have their fans would really be better suited for stage cameos and/or Assist Trophies/Spirits/Mii Costumes and the like.

My "impartial" (I'm obviously not just saying cuz I'd literally litter the roster with the entire party if I had my way) limit (no pun intended) would be adding in Tifa and Barret with Aerith getting in as an Assist Trophy. That's 4 unique characters with 3 sharing a mechanic. I think both have earned their place if it were to be. Tifa is one of the few iconic female video game characters up there with the aforementioned Chun-Li and Laura Croft. Barret is THE most iconic Japanese black video game character and I think that matters but even besides that he's literally the first party member and also delivers the first line of dialogue in the original game. I also think as I've stated that there'd be this neat little parallel between Cloud, Tifa and Barret and the Miis. The rest of the cast could be stage cameos and the like as I've mentioned at that point and FF7 would have its definitive spot in Smash. Whether than can or is likely or even should happen is all a matter of personal preference.

I don't mean to be too dismissive of Final Fantasy 1-5's fans out there because I understand what it's like to want a character that's not being pushed for in the fandom at large. I get it. I just think it "makes sense" for FF6 to represent the Nintendo era of classic Final Fantasy and for the previous entries to be represented by their music. When the fandom talks about classic FF in Smash it's always Terra and Kefka. And hey you could even deservedly increase that to 4 characters like my hypothetical 7 representation with Locke and Celes. That's way too much to expect from anything right now so I don't mean to just throw that out there like a realistic expectation because any one person's ideal is unlikely but I sure wouldn't complain. Played FF6 on my GBA as a kid. Would adore any 1 rep from the game.

But why does it NEED to be more Final Fantasy VII characters? You even listed off characters from other franchises that Squenix could use if they ever needed some kind of DLC leverage.

I think because FF7 Remake is a priority for the foreseeable future and Slime is something Sakurai is clearly interested in implementing.

Where have you been for the last 100 pages? Discussion about a potential "Deluxe" Ultimate has come up several times now.


The way I see it, those "one or two things" we didn't get are actually some pretty major flaws that hold back an otherwise great concept. And really, Ultimate's already laid out a fantastic foundation, yet it seems like such a waste to leave it in its current state, with its input lag, shoddy online, repetitive single-player, and other flaws. I do agree that there should be a point where they should just move on (though granted, Smash in general never had much in terms of completely foundational shifts), but here, I genuinely feel like it's gotten so close, only to sorta stumble at the finish line.


When you think about it, Ultimate is already a deluxe version of Smash4 while managing to feel like a proper successor. I'm sure all the previous Smash titles likewise re-used some assets from the entries that came before them. So yeah, the idea of an "Ultimate DX" gaining its own identity as a Smash6 doesn't seem too out there.

Agreed with most of your sentiment. Besides the obvious desire for more characters to join the fray it's mainly that I feel like Ultimate could really be elevated even higher on a successor console BEYOND just additions to the cast. Nintendo has to prepare their next console for this kind of thing though and I'm not certain of that. I hope. Besides Ultimate even Mario-Kart-8 DX has raised the bar IMMENSELY for that series and the following DLC. People basically want Smash Kart as this point hahaha.

Anyway, I intend to layout a theoretical Ultimate DX as a true Smash 6 in a later effort-post. I have tons of ideas but it's a matter of organizing them properly. I don't want to come off as "entitled" like a lot of people tend to write-off these kinds of frivolous speculative posts though so I want my wording to be clear.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Mario-Kart-8 DX has raised the bar IMMENSELY for that series and the following DLC.

You do know why MK8 DX was so successful, right? It's because to casuals, it might as well have been an all-new title, since vanilla MK8 was a Wii U exclusive. Ultimate DX would not have such a luxury. Besides, MK8 DX infamously has yet to actually add new racetracks, and was only able to add some more new drivers because they take much less time to balance than a Smash fighter.

 

[Chuderz]

You do know why MK8 DX was so successful, right? It's because to casuals, it might as well have been an all-new title, since vanilla MK8 was a Wii U exclusive. Ultimate DX would not have such a luxury. Besides, MK8 DX infamously has yet to actually add new racetracks, and was only able to add some more new drivers because they take much less time to balance than a Smash fighter.

Yeah and now all those casuals that played it have expectations for what a "better game", i.e. the true sequel to it, constitutes and that's especially if (and it likely is the case) the sequel to it is on Nintendo's next console. Packaging in the DLC to already great game on its own has raised the standard for what a Mario Kart game should be.

Could Nintendo release anything and make a mint? Absolutely but I don't think a barebones release of MK9 would go over well at all. Even if it was released on this console in place of MK8 DX in an alternative timeline it wouldn't go over well. In this timeline where Nintendo have had years of preparation and have been content to sit on the IP for all those years while fans expectations have run wild in the interim it'd go over especially poorly.

Highly hypothetical Ultimate DX =/= Actually real MK8 DX. They are different in both exist in completely different circumstances. I was just loosely using MK8 DX as some speculation material in that Nintendo should have better online infrastructure to maintain both series well by modern standards.

 

[SPEN18]

People keep acting like Ultimate had almost no new content by doing EiH when that could not be further from the truth.

I mean, it still stands to say that the non-roster content could have been noticeably better if the dev team wasn't so tied down with the stringent requirement of EiH. Personally I focus more on the roster failures of EiH than the rest of it, but still not having something as basic as a stagebuilder at launch is, well, I don't think it's fair to call it embarrassing but I was tempted for a second to call it that. Regardless, when it comes to arguing for or against doing EiH again, it seems pretty unlikely you'd get a scenario like the Wii U to Switch transition where the logistics of porting are especially agreeable (more similar hardware specs than per usual from console to console, not enough time passing between 4 and Ult for the models to look too dated).

The way I see it, if the next Nintendo console ditches the handheld-hybrid gimmick, then they'll probably be forced to upgrade the specs significantly in order to justify it, in which case porting becomes less desirable and less likely. If they keep the handheld hybridism, then they'll have to differentiate the new hardware enough from the Switch in order to justify the purchase (remember they struggled to market the Wii U as being distinct enough from the Wii); in this case ports and deluxe editions only work against the goal of establishing the hardware as an all-new experience.

Now, if you did a port, you might have to keep some expectations in check. Anywhere from 8-13 new characters would make sense for the base game going by what Ultimate got. While EiH did take up resources, its clear that a good chunk of those resource went towards cut vets instead of characters they could save work on that were in 4. If we do get an Ultimate DX, it would likely be the same if not more apparent. We could see some new modes, better online, and a solid number of new stages

All of this assumes that such a port is doable at all on the next piece of hardware they put out. It's also nontrivial to tell how well the effort required to port scales with Ult's roster (and overall content base) being significantly larger than 4's. New modes, new online, and new stages are all things we could get without issue in a brand new game not featuring EiH (in fact, they're easier to add in a non-EiH situation) and as such are not an advantage specific to porting.

Also, port and EiH don't necessarily have to come together. EiH is more likely in a port scenario and that's a big part of why so many people are rooting for it (also admittedly part of why I'm rooting against it), but we could conceivably have a port that cuts characters due to any number of reasons like licensing and such.

But I think if we do get cuts, its in the single digits at most. Smash has historically avoided cuts. Only five characters were cut going into Brawl, and we know that three of them were planned to return. From Brawl to 4, six characters were cut. One came back as DLC and three were cut due to tech limitations. Heck, Smash 4 brought back the two most popular cut vets from Melee. It is clear going by precedent and what Sakurai deems people want that cuts are the exception, not the norm

Looking at the history of cuts only does so much good when you consider how vastly large and complex Ult's roster is compared to those of any other Smash games. Even if Sakurai wants to avoid cuts (and it's not even a guarantee that he would direct the next game), he might be forced to go farther with them than ever before. I don't think that the workload scales all that well in terms of this continual push-forward of content with no shaving of the excess that people are advocating for.

Will cuts happen? I don't know, but if they do I would not bet on a large swath of cuts to appease a vocal minority.

Well, yeah, cuts aren't going to happen just because I or anyone else in particular wants them to happen. But they could happen for some number of the reasons that I or anyone else might want them to happen, like greater flexibility to add new content, actually looking at the roster construction in terms of the current situation rather than the situation from like twenty years ago, etc.

 

[Perkilator]

This really should have been a thing in Ultimate.
Eggman as a smash boss just makes so much sense.

I’ll do you one better: Eggman as CP11 while Sora gets to be CP5.

 

[Will]

I missed a topic about hypothetical boss fights? I made a really detailed one a while ago.

You know what's super underappreciated imo? Smash Bros. boss fights. You know what I'm gonna do? Make a hypothetical boss fight. You know who today's subject is? Spamton NEO from Deltarune. Let's imagine Toby Fox whooped Sakurai's ass in Smash again and this was the barter. Everything from the location, attacks, and even phases will be covered here.

View attachment 339345

[Heaven], are you watching? It's time to make a [Very Specil] deal!​

Spoiler: Location

You can't have a good boss fight without the proper [Hell Hole] to fight in. Like most bosses in Smash, the stage would be a completely flat field with a walk-off. Only rarely will there be boss stages with ledges (Master/Crazy Hand or Galeem/Dharkon) or stage hazards (Meta-Ridley in SSE). I do plan to spice things up here, but in the beginning, it will take place at the Dark Fountain, where you fight Spamton NEO during the Snowgrave route.

View attachment 339346​

It's simple. It's flat. It has a walk-off. It has pretty colors in the background. You may ask why it's not the other place, but believe me, we will get there when we [Take A Ride around Town on Our Specil Cungadero]. You could also fill the void of a background with scenery more fitting of Cyber City. Perhaps a background similar to the final boss of Chapter 2's normal/pacifist route, GIGA Queen. Of course, with a Fountain in the background still.

View attachment 339347
​

​

Spoiler: Music

This doesn't need to be explained. It doesn't need to be remixed, because we saw Megalovania go untouched, but it wouldn't hurt to have one.

Spoiler: Boss Characteristics

Spamton NEO is a ranged attacker who prioritizes annoying you with ranged attacks to keep you away from him. He holds many projectile attacks with varying size, power, and attack attribute. Not all attacks are coming from Spamton NEO himself, so you will have to keep your eye on the entire stage to notice when hazards may arrive.

While you're fighting Spamton NEO himself, it's also worth noting that his strings are also given a hurtbox and have a 1.5x multiplier when attacked. However, since Spamton NEO would be mostly above you during both phases, it is made difficult to easily exploit.

Spoiler: Phase 1 Attacks

Spoiler: Spamton's Attacks

[Heart Attack]
View attachment 339361
​

Spamton lets you be part of his [Beautiful Heart]. Like in his home game, the heart will spring back and forth from Spamton's chest. The heart itself has a hurtbox, but when it moves forward, it is both invincible and has a strong hitbox. If damaged enough times, it will break apart and Spamton will move on to his next attack prematurely. Unlike Deltarune however, this variant does not shoot sharp bullets as it moves, as that would be unbalanced and near impossible to counter for characters without reflectors.

[50 Bullets For Free]
View attachment 339362
​

This and the next attack after this only trigger while stage hazards are present. Spamton fires a large projectile from his blaster. It's got medium strength/knockback and has electrical properties. Think of it as a slower-moving, fully charged shot from Samus. Except, it's from Spamton.

[PIPIS]
View attachment 339363
View attachment 339365​

You can't have such a great [Pipis Person] without their signature Pipis! While stage hazards roam the stage, Spamton will fire Pipis from his blaster. They will be shot at varying heights. They will bounce off of the ground once unharmed but will shatter into fast-moving pieces that do low damage/knockback upon contact. They will also shatter if they make direct contact with a stage hazard. The best way to stop Pipis is to attack and destroy it before it explodes. If you are fast enough, the flying heads can be destroyed with any attack and do not clash with any move.

Spoiler: Stage Hazards

[Flying Heads]
View attachment 339366
​

Blue Flying Heads will roam from random sections of the stage. Some are individual, while others are spawned in chain links of 4 heads (in a line) at a time. They can be immediately destroyed in one hit. If not destroyed, they will shoot one pellet shot in the direction of where the player is. They spawn in greater numbers when Spamton is firing a projectile from his blaster.

[Bombs]
View attachment 339367​

Sometimes, with the flying heads, a bomb will be introduced in the mix. Similar to how Bomberman's bombs work while using his Assist Trophy, they explode in a straight vertical and diagonal line once attacked. Anything can trigger this bomb; your attacks or Spamton's. Even the pellets from the Flying Heads can trigger it, just not within the same chain link. It does medium damage if it hits the player.

Spoiler: Phase 2 Trigger and Attacks

You will know that you've reached this phase by the visual and audio cues presented. They're coming straight from the Normal/Pacifist version of the fight, where attacking him will give a whistling audio cue and a steaming enraged Spamton visual cue.

View attachment 339368
​

When triggered, Spamton's strings will pull him offscreen and the flat walk-off will disappear entirely, dropping the player into an entirely new stage in the [Abyss] of Queen's [Mansion]. The stage's platforms are the Spamton carts that you fight on during the Normal/Pacifist fight. Imagine them either wider or connected by the chain, similar to the Spirit Tracks stage, to fit for such a wide gap. The carts will move and sway in various directions at different times, so it won't always be as pictured below.

View attachment 339369
i made this in ms paint don't judge me
​

From this point on, there are only two new attacks introduced. Most other moves are simply enhanced or made more powerful. Here are following changes and new attacks:

Spoiler: Updated Attacks

[NEO Heart Attack]
View attachment 339371​

There are now three attacking hearts whenever Spamton does this move. The smaller hearts follow the same mechanics as the bigger heart but have less overall health and disappear faster.

[NEO 50 Bullets for Free]
View attachment 339370​

As pictured, some shots will now blink yellow and transform into a three-way scattershot of projectiles. This is ripped from the Gripping Phones attack and not his standard blaster attack, but it made sense to upgrade it somehow in this final phase.

[Press F1 for Help]
View attachment 339374
​

This isn't actually an attack. It's a full heal! This will rarely spawn in with the Flying Heads once you hit the second phase, or alternatively will have at least one spawn if the fight isn't completed within three minutes and thirty seconds. It will heal 100%.

Spoiler: Final Attack

[The Power of NEO]
View attachment 339372​

Once you've gotten Spamton's health down about 75%, he will once again fly off-screen. All but one cart per track will disappear. That is when Spamton's giant form appears. Just like Deltarune, he will do two attacks. The first attack is him absorbing [DELICIOUS KROMER] which will come from behind the player.

View attachment 339373
ms paint can't do everything, imagine that SOUL is mario or something lol
​

Finally, Spamton fires projectiles back out at varying heights. Simply avoid the shots by jumping and falling through the cart platforms, or you can reflect them and damage Spamton slightly. Just like in the original, there is one [BIG SHOT] among the other avoidable projectiles. Simply back up as far as you can and you will not be hit by it. The shot will explode, fade the screen to white briefly, and the fight will then resume as normal. Spamton NEO will only do this attack once, and only once.

View attachment 339375
View attachment 339376​

Spoiler: Defeat Screen

There are two unique defeat screens for Spamton. The first one is the normal one if defeated regularly. Spamton will begin to sway rapidly, glow white, and then explode. This is similar to his defeat via violence in the Normal route.

View attachment 339377
​

The other screen is difficult to obtain, because it will only trigger if you attack Spamton via his wires, which I mentioned earlier as also having a hurtbox. This ending will result in how he is defeated nonviolently: with his strings being cut and him falling lifelessly to the floor. I'm not including this because it's a practical way to fight him, in fact I mentioned how it's difficult to even go for this route in the first place, but I like easter eggs.

View attachment 339379
had to combine these two cause you can only have 20 files attached lol
​

So yeah, that's it. Spamton NEO boss fight. Did I do a good job? Am I a kino boss fight creator?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I’ll do you one better: Eggman as CP11 while Sora gets to be CP5.

That's some brave language for someone in Failnaught rangs.

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

I am 100% alone on this, but I want the next Smash to cut down the roster and content - heavily at that. So many poorly designed characters who need either more time in the woodworks or to have their very inclusion reconsidered.

Real tired of rigid game accuracy in movesets. I want a platform fighting game, not Super Mario Crossover.