Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[cashregister9]

I also like spirits as a replacement for Event Matches. I think the references they packed in are so much fun

I think if they get a bit more adventurous with the things they are willing to change about matches and also add something like a playlist feature it could be perfect.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Personally I just really REALLY didn't like how many models were just ripped from other games. It didn't feel like a museum or a trip down memory lane at that point.

Back in Melee, when the models were unique, trophies were a joy to behold, but Brawl onwards made them feel like a grab bag of whatever developers still had the files of. And when the developer didn't have a model, it was really obvious. Even as far back as Brawl it struck kid me as cheap that Yoshi's Island had barely anything and that Fire Emblem only had stuff from the Tellius games.

I think spirits are the way to go for the majority of characters represented. But I don't see why fighters shouldn't have trophies still. They already have the model. Give them a description and several poses and I think it'd be a fantastic compromise.

 

[superprincess]

There’s been a surprising lack of love for the animal buddies throughout Smash. I’d at least love to see some of them as summonable assist-trophy like items that you can ride. Either that or incorporate them into Dixie’s moveset.

I don't think that Dixie summoning random characters to perform moves for her would be the best design decision. It'd be overly busy and just messy.

Also I don't get why people maintain that Dixie should be the one to use them. DK and Diddy use them in DKC too. It just feels like a way to shoehorn the animal buddies somewhere, and because DK and Diddy already have established movesets in Smash, Dixie's stuck with them I guess.

Best place for them in Smash would probably be as AT's, or just give DK, Diddy & Dixie one buddy each in their movesets (if we're going for overhauls).

 

[Louie G.]

When I was younger, I spent countless hours collecting and viewing trophies, reading descriptions, these were some of my first exposure to certain worlds within Smash and it helped form me into a Nintendo encyclopedia. The trophy room was as much of a “vibe” as it was a function, an engaging and informative way to take a breather with those nostalgic tunes from Melee and Brawl. There’s a lot of nostalgia carrying my love for this feature, but I do miss it. I at least wish, if they didn’t want to fully commit, that there was a trophy for every playable character and assist trophy. I think that can coexist with the more comprehensive and immersive spirits.

But I am a bit of a stickler in the way I recognize some of Smash’s identity being stripped back. World of Light, and Sora’s trailer kinda acknowledge the toys to life thing. But I miss when more attention was drawn to this in-game with little things like the game over screens, complete screens and the sort of meta implementation into Subspace. The very concept of Master Hand, the very concept of trophies, the Smash LOGO (a window pane) are founded in this admittedly easy to ignore aspect of the series. I may consider this detail to be more important than others, it doesn’t influence gameplay mind you, but I respect the unique identity Smash had crafted for itself and I’d like to see them breathe some new life into that next game.

Bottom line though, spirits are fine. I’m not especially enthralled with them but I think the sentiment of being able to represent as much as possible, and giving them an in-game function is smart. Would just prefer them not to do away with arguably one of the most characteristic elements of the series altogether, as opposed to just limiting trophies to crucial characters with some physical appearance if something more akin to Melee is no longer feasible or worth the effort.

 

[Perkilator]

After poking around at MYM27, which just opened yesterday, and looking at a moveset for Gilius Thunderhead (here’s the link, if you’re curious), it gave me an idea for who Sigurd can work. His down special can be him mounting as dismount his horse, with it appearing via the Warp spell, though Sigurd would have a considerably limited moveset while on horseback.

 

[DarthEnderX]

It would be cool if Smash gave every character a "riding" animation. Then they could add a whole series of mount-based ATs.

Rambi, Chocobo, Palamut, Epona, Gogoat, Cyclizar, Master Cycle, etc.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I don't think that Dixie summoning random characters to perform moves for her would be the best design decision. It'd be overly busy and just messy.

Also I don't get why people maintain that Dixie should be the one to use them. DK and Diddy use them in DKC too. It just feels like a way to shoehorn the animal buddies somewhere, and because DK and Diddy already have established movesets in Smash, Dixie's stuck with them I guess.

Best place for them in Smash would probably be as AT's, or just give DK, Diddy & Dixie one buddy each in their movesets (if we're going for overhauls).

I think the idea is that people want Dixie to stand out visually more from DK and Diddy. Dixie already gets called prime echo material already, and animal buddies are an easy to suggest solution to convince people she can be more than that.

It's not how I would design Dixie (outside of maybe a Rambi final smash) but I'm more okay with semi-clones and / or visually similar characters than most.

 

[superprincess]

I think the idea is that people want Dixie to stand out visually more from DK and Diddy. Dixie already gets called prime echo material already, and animal buddies are an easy to suggest solution to convince people she can be more than that.

It's not how I would design Dixie (outside of maybe a Rambi final smash) but I'm more okay with semi-clones and / or visually similar characters than most.

Scrambling ideas together to "save" a character from echo status isn't exactly a good strategy, and often lends itself to bad design.

Look what happened to Daisy fans. Spent years and years making up "spin-off rep" movesets only to be hit with the hard truth that yes, Daisy fits best as a clone of Peach.

In Dixie's case, I don't think an echo is fitting or even feasible. Her hair is simply too prevalent, both in her canon moveset and in her visual design. Dixie not slapping people with her ponytail would be like Mewtwo not using its long, elastic tail. The characters silhouette makes the moveset for you.

Animal buddies are just brought up to distance her even further from Diddy. But sharing a few moves wouldn't hurt anyone.

 

[RealLuigisWearPink]

Vaguely related but I’ve come to appreciate Cranky Kong as a smash option and I support doubling up on donkey kong newcomers in the next game

It’d be fun if he used old Nintendo arcade games, like he’s calling in his old friends lol

 

[AreJay25]

It would be cool if Smash gave every character a "riding" animation. Then they could add a whole series of mount-based ATs.

Rambi, Chocobo, Palamut, Epona, Gogoat, Cyclizar, Master Cycle, etc.

You know, now that you mention it.

Rambi not being an Assist Trophy already is weird as hell. I mean, the animal buddies are practically Assist Trophies if you really think about it. Gogoat even kinda fulfills a similar sort of function to what you'd think Rambi would have...

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I think the idea is that people want Dixie to stand out visually more from DK and Diddy. Dixie already gets called prime echo material already, and animal buddies are an easy to suggest solution to convince people she can be more than that.

It's not how I would design Dixie (outside of maybe a Rambi final smash) but I'm more okay with semi-clones and / or visually similar characters than most.

It doesn't hurt that Dixie's debut game (DKC2) has one of the strongest collections of animal buddies (Enguarde, Rambi, Squitter, Squawks, Rattly) and that the former aside, most of them could be practically utilized in Smash.

I think in general for me, I just prefer Dixie's core design as something closer to the 64/Melee era where it didn't necessarily have to play so close to how the character was in their home titles. As someone who found the DKC representation in general to be pretty hit and miss prior to K Rool, I'll fully admit to being fine with Dixie as a bit tribute to the Country games.

 

[Gorgonzales]

Vaguely related but I’ve come to appreciate Cranky Kong as a smash option and I support doubling up on donkey kong newcomers in the next game

It’d be fun if he used old Nintendo arcade games, like he’s calling in his old friends lol

DK needs more love in general, I'm all for more Kongs making it in and this especially applies to Cranky. The cane bounce alone is enough to make me want him, but add the facts that he's an important recurring character in the series AND canonically the original DK and it's not hard to imagine him fighting alongside everyone else. Plus, he's just funny. Smash needs more old guys.

I think in general for me, I just prefer Dixie's core design as something closer to the 64/Melee era where it didn't necessarily have to play so close to how the character was in their home titles. As someone who found the DKC representation in general to be pretty hit and miss prior to K Rool, I'll fully admit to being fine with Dixie as a bit tribute to the Country games.

I think simpler is better for Dixie, and I think that can still be achieved while making her unique (and without the need to summon other characters). Making her a tag-team character with either Diddy or Kiddy following behind would be fine by me and honestly I think it'd be a better (and more intuitive) representation of the original DKC trilogy as a whole.

 

[superprincess]

Vaguely related but I’ve come to appreciate Cranky Kong as a smash option and I support doubling up on donkey kong newcomers in the next game

It’d be fun if he used old Nintendo arcade games, like he’s calling in his old friends lol

The problem with this is that even Nintendo cannot decide if Cranky really is the DK from the original Arcade game. The canon is really, really shaky, so that's where this moveset idea kinda falls apart.

If Cranky were to join Smash, I assume he'd fight with his cane. Summoning random Arcade characters seems weirdly out of character.

If the DK series were to double dip next time, it'd 100% be Dixie as the Isabelle to Diddy's Villager, and Funky as an echo of Donkey with minimal differences.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

While I'd prefer a wholly original Dixie, a semi-clone to Diddy with distinct moves that replaced the Monkey Flip and Banana Peel (with her getting a contrasting bubble gum gun & hair twirl with some similarities to the Peanut Popgun & Rocketbarrel respectively) I think I'd be reasonably satisfied.

 

[Gengar84]

I totally understand why people might not like the animal buddy idea for Dixie but that’s my personal most wanted moveset for her for a few reasons. Number one, I don’t feel the mechanics of the DKC trilogy on the SNES have been historically well represented in Smash. Besides the unique visuals for the time, a big part of what I loved so much about the games were the tag mechanics and animal buddies. Neither Donkey Kong nor Diddy Kong really captured this for me. Both characters have many moves created just for Smash. DK didn’t even have his rolling attack until Smash 4. Besides Diddy’s cartwheel dash, all his existing moves come from DK64. Ideally, I’d have loved a Diddy/Dixie pairing but it’s a bit late for that.

In order to best represent what I loved so much about the series, I’m left with two options: either a Dixie/Kiddy pairing or Dixie with the animal buddies. I know neither the tag mechanic nor the buddies are exclusive to Dixie but both are a huge part of the appeal of the series to me. A solo Dixie that’s an echo or semiclone of Diddy, doesn’t really accomplish that for me. I’m sure Sakurai could come up with something that’s fun to play but that’s not really what I’ve been hoping for from the series. Even though the buddies weren’t exclusive to her, she did still use them extensively. I think making the character feel like they’re coming right out of their home series is part of the fun.

Again, I understand the complaints that these mechanics aren’t really necessary for an interesting Dixie moveset, but I think they would really help her stand out and feel exciting while also calling back to the gameplay of the home series. There’s also plenty of room left in either approach to include all of her original attacks from the hair twirl to the bubble gum gun. I’m not saying that it’s the only way to go, just the one I would be most excited for. I hope I explained that well enough. I kind of feel like I was rambling on a bit there lol.

 

[Guynamednelson]

In regards to Dixie being Diddy's Luigi or an Animal Buddy summoner...

moves that replaced the Monkey Flip

Have her replacement be TOTSUGEKI with Enguarde. It'd be a simple move that involves one of them.

 

[Gengar84]

I came up with a whole moveset a while back for her with her animal buddies but I’m not sure I ever posted it. I’ll try to either find it again or remember it if anyone is at all interested in seeing it at some point.

 

[Louie G.]

Someone probably mentioned it already, but I’d just like an item that summons a handful of animal buddies.

Kinda like what Darth suggested - the absence of Rambi in any capacity feels so strange to me and I have to imagine it might just boil down to there being no “sitting” animation. Maybe this is why it took until Ultimate for DK to have a single AT? Gogoat is a thing but part of the fun with Rambi is having some control over them, so that’d be a cool function to play around with.

 

[superprincess]

Gengar84 I'd like to see the Dixie if you happen to find it!

Anyways, this conversation gave me the perfect chance to go on a little tangent about moveset design. So here I go...

Centering a character's moveset around references and game representation isn't the best idea. One of the few times a character got a Special move changed just for the sake of referencing real material from a game, we ended up with a really functionally & aesthetically disjointed move. I'm of course talking about Mario's F.L.U.D.D.

Remember, characters are here to represent nothing but themselves. In that process, they also represent the games they come from, because the games are ingrained in the character's identity. But never have we ever gotten a character who's just here to represent a whole game. Especially when said character isn't a protagonist of their game, but like Dixie, is a secondary character who veers off from the protagonist's more basic skills.

Fans don't often understand that philosophy and end up making hodgepodges of references... it's cool to see a move and go "Hey, that's from that game!" but if that's like, every move, you're bound to risk having zero cohesiveness.

This is why I sometimes roll my eyes when people go "Mario should be updated to represent Odyssey/Wonder/insert recent game here!" Like... yeah, if there's something that lends itself to Mario's already existing kit and feels fitting, sure. But most of the time the move just feels super tacked on and there just for the sake of having something from XYZ game.

We need to think more about functions and mechanics when talking about movesets, whether it be for newcomers or for veterans. These fighters aren't just walking libraries of their extensive #gaming resumés, they're also fulfilling the role of certain playstyles in a fighting game. They have to function mechanically, and shoehorning random references often doesn't lend itself to that.

 

[Gengar84]

Gengar84 I'd like to see the Dixie if you happen to find it!

Anyways, this conversation gave me the perfect chance to go on a little tangent about moveset design. So here I go...

Centering a character's moveset around references and game representation isn't the best idea. One of the few times a character got a Special move changed just for the sake of referencing real material from a game, we ended up with a really functionally & aesthetically disjointed move. I'm of course talking about Mario's F.L.U.D.D.

Remember, characters are here to represent nothing but themselves. In that process, they also represent the games they come from, because the games are ingrained in the character's identity. But never have we ever gotten a character who's just here to represent a whole game. Especially when said character isn't a protagonist of their game, but like Dixie, is a secondary character who veers off from the protagonist's more basic skills.

Fans don't often understand that philosophy and end up making hodgepodges of references... it's cool to see a move and go "Hey, that's from that game!" but if that's like, every move, you're bound to risk having zero cohesiveness.

This is why I sometimes roll my eyes when people go "Mario should be updated to represent Odyssey/Wonder/insert recent game here!" Like... yeah, if there's something that lends itself to Mario's already existing kit and feels fitting, sure. But most of the time the move just feels super tacked on and there just for the sake of having something from XYZ game.

We need to think more about functions and mechanics when talking about movesets, whether it be for newcomers or for veterans. These fighters aren't just walking libraries of their extensive #gaming resumés, they're also fulfilling the role of certain playstyles in a fighting game. They have to function mechanically, and shoehorning random references often doesn't lend itself to that.

I think the difference there is that F.L.U.D.D. represents a single game where the animal buddies represent the series as a whole. In that way, the buddies are more analogous to the fire flower. Peach also has attacks like the turnips and sports equipment that weren’t exclusive to her either. Dixie has a small enough existing moveset that you can pull every attack she’s ever used in a game and still have plenty of room left. The buddy gimmick only takes up four total move slots and you’d probably want to replace the jet pack anyways. Diddy’s banana and forward special are also nothing he’s ever done in game so you’re not really losing anything that makes Dixie unique.

I’m not sure whether I can find the exact moveset I made, but I’ll start putting together my ideas so I can share them here.

 

[Gorgonzales]

We need to think more about functions and mechanics when talking about movesets, whether it be for newcomers or for veterans. These fighters aren't just walking libraries of their extensive #gaming resumés, they're also fulfilling the role of certain playstyles in a fighting game. They have to function mechanically, and shoehorning random references often doesn't lend itself to that.

This. It's important to design movesets with a key playstyle or fighting manner in mind, there's a lot of fan movesets that fall flat because summoning props and other characters is abused to the point where there's no real cohesiveness and things kind of fall apart. It also feels like people tend to forget Smash is a fighting game, which can make some move proposals hilariously tone-deaf when looking at them in the greater context of things.

"Remember Hogarth, the lovable cassowary from specifically the GBA port of Jungle Rustlers 4? He's back and better than ever as a part of Maurice's moveset as his side tilt, where Hogarth is summoned to charge forward and headbutt any opponents in his way, and Maurice shooes him away just fast enough for the attack to be minus 6 on shield!"

 

[superprincess]

I think the difference there is that F.L.U.D.D. represents a single game where the animal buddies represent the series as a whole. In that way, the buddies are more analogous to the fire flower. Peach also has attacks like the turnips and sports equipment that weren’t exclusive to her either. Dixie has a small enough existing moveset that you can pull every attack she’s ever used in a game and still have plenty of room left. The buddy gimmick only takes up four total move slots and you’d probably want to replace the jet pack anyways. Diddy’s banana and forward special are also nothing he’s ever done in game so you’re not really losing anything that makes Dixie unique.

I’m not sure whether I can find the exact moveset I made, but I’ll start putting together my ideas so I can share them here.

But that's the issue. There shouldn't be a need to "represent" mechanics where it doesn't fit. Mario's F.L.U.D.D. does a good job at representing Sunshine but in the context of his Smash moveset it's just... weird.

I feel like the same would go for Dixie. She's an agile monkey with a long ponytail she can use to float and grab things with. She's also got a teenager-ish (?) motif going on with her electric guitar and bubblegum popgun. Assuming she'd also play somewhat like Diddy, her summoning a rhino or a parrot out of nowhere would be very disjointed imo.

Also, I see you mentioned Peach's moveset, and I kinda disagree with your point. Yes, she doesn't use a lot of exclusive moves, but that's because her kit was designed in 2000. Back then, there were barely any games where Peach did so much as move around. With the limited material he had, Sakurai had to reach at anything to make Peach work. That's prob how she ended up with moves from the RPGs, which Smash usually ignores. And yes, while SMB2's vegetables aren't a Peach exclusive, that game is arguably more important to her identity than it is to Mario's or Luigi's, because it was her first time being playable and getting out of the damsel role. Kinda like how Lost Levels is integral to Luigi moreso than Mario, because that's the game that gave him his higher jumps & lower traction. And also, keep in mind, Peach is sort of a "comic relief" fighter. Sakurai joked about it when he originally talked about her in the Melee website. "She's a princess, but her moves aren't princess-like at all!" was basically the joke, which is probably how she got the veggies and butt attacks.

Unless Dixie somehow ends up with the same jokey moveset design (haha cute monkey summons rhino to trample you), I don't see her her getting animal buddies.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I don't think it's a hard rule that representation emphasized in a moveset makes it disjointed in and of itself. It can be dubiously if not handled right, but in certain circumstances, I think there's a positive of capturing the energy of a series without the character being a direct transplant. There aren't a lot of Pac-Man games where he plays quite like he does in Smash, yet he feels like he works as a fighter.

(And that's coming from someone that wouldn't mind getting more direct moves from stuff like Pac-Man World).

 

[Ivander]

(And that's coming from someone that wouldn't mind getting more direct moves from stuff like Pac-Man World).

I guess he is missing his Bounce and Sprint moves, but his Neutral B is an interesting combination of the Dot Throw combined with all the items he can find in that game, and his Side-B is a cool reference to those automatic Dot Trail secrets he can find in the game.

 

[Gengar84]

Alright, it looks like I never wrote down a full moveset all in one place, just scattered ideas for different moves across different posts. I’ll try to make it all here into something cohesive. I think this moveset incorporates everything that makes Dixie unique as a character along with every move she’s ever done in the games. I think we were going to have to replace the up special anyways and two of Diddy’s other specials were just made up for Smash. In my opinion, Diddy’s down special is just “haha, he’s a monkey so he should throw a banana!” and his forward special is just another generic monkey attack. I know the moves can be useful in combat but that’s just how I feel about their initial concepts.

I’m just writing this out now so it’s more a rough idea rather than a more full cohesive set but I’m pretty happy with how it came out all things considered.

Dixie Kong with Animal Buddies

Basic Attributes:

I’m not really an expert on exact stats and percentages so I’ll just say that Dixie is slower and floatier than Diddy. What she lacks in speed, she makes up for in her amazing recovery.

Weak attacks:

Jab - Diddy’s jab combo

Forward Tilt - Dixie performs her signature hair twirl and moves slightly forward.

Up Tilt - Diddy’s up tilt

Down tilt - Dixie performs a sweep across the ground with her hair which can trip opponents.

Dash - Dixie’s hair twirl. Very similar to her forward tilt but continues her momentum for short while.

Smash attacks:

Forward Smash (Bubble Gum Gun) - This is basically a combination of Diddy’s Peanut Gun and Mega Man’s buster cannon. The animation is very similar to Diddy’s but the attack only travels as far as Mega Man’s. If she charges too long, the gum blows up in her face like Diddy’s Peanut Gun.

Up Smash - Diddy’s up smash

Down Smash - Dixie strums her electric guitar sending shockwaves around her which slightly stuns opponents before sending them flying.

Grab:

Dixie has a fairly unique grab that functions very similarly to Donkey Kong’s. She grabs the opponent with her hair and carries them over her head. Like DK, she can walk around with them for a bit before tossing them in the chosen direction.

Specials:

Neutral Special (Rambi)- Dixie hops on top of Rambi. The move functions very similarly to Jigglypuff’s roll where Rambi charges up in place before dashing across the screen. Dixie jumps off as soon as the attack is finished.

Forward Special (Squitter): This is the only buddy that Dixie can move around freely while riding it. While riding Squitter, Dixie can fire webs in one of three directions, either straight ahead or in a 45 degree angle up or down depending on the direction held.

Up Special (Squawks): Squawks lifts Dixie and flies upward about the height of Pit’s Brawl special. While flying, Dixie can press neutral special to fire coconuts from Squawks’s mouth.

Down Special (Enguarde): Dixie hops on top of Enguarde and summons a big wave which carries them across and Enguarde jabs anyone in the way with its sword. This attack travels a much shorter distance than Rambi but has a good amount more height and no charge up time.

Aerial Attacks:

Neutral Air - Diddy’s neutral air

Forward Air - Dixie’s signature hair twirl. After performing the attack, you can hold the attack button to glide in a slightly downward trajectory like in her games.

Up Air - Diddy’s up air

Down Air - Diddy’s down air

For Dixie’s second jump, she performs a twirl with her hair that lifts her upwards, which is taken from her ability from Tropicsl Freeze.

Final Smash:

Dixie takes out her guitar and performs her stage victory theme sending huge shockwaves across the screen. This is a lot like Donkey Kong’s Final Smash from Brawl.

 

[RealLuigisWearPink]

I for one support the Dixie/Kiddy duo concept.

I made a moveset for that back when I first joined the boards but man it was. Bad lol I should redo it sometime

 

[Gengar84]

I for one support the Dixie/Kiddy duo concept.

I made a moveset for that back when I first joined the boards but man it was. Bad lol I should redo it sometime

I like that idea too. If they don’t go with something like my above concept, I think a Dixie/Kiddy duo would be great. I loved how the Kongs could throw their inactive partner either as an attack or as another movement option. That would really help them stand out from other standard tag characters. In that case, the animal buddies could be assist trophy-like rideable units.

I don’t think I’ve mentioned this but Donkey Kong Country means a lot to me since it was my absolute favorite series growing up and DKC2 was my favorite game at the time and is still up there today. I voted for K. Rool on the ballot and I’m really happy with how he came out for the most part. I personally would have given him the vertical cannonball drop from DKC1 instead of his counter but that’s cool too.

 

[superprincess]

Alright, it looks like I never wrote down a full moveset all in one place, just scattered ideas for different moves across different posts. I’ll try to make it all here into something cohesive. I think this moveset incorporates everything that makes Dixie unique as a character along with every move she’s ever done in the games. I think we were going to have to replace the up special anyways and two of Diddy’s other specials were just made up for Smash. In my opinion, Diddy’s down special is just “haha, he’s a monkey so he should throw a banana!” and his forward special is just another generic monkey attack. I know the moves can be useful in combat but that’s just how I feel about their initial concepts.

I’m just writing this out now so it’s more a rough idea rather than a more full cohesive set but I’m pretty happy with how it came out all things considered.

Dixie Kong with Animal Buddies

Basic Attributes:

I’m not really an expert on exact stats and percentages so I’ll just say that Dixie is slower and floatier than Diddy. What she lacks in speed, she makes up for in her amazing recovery.

Weak attacks:

Jab - Diddy’s jab combo

Forward Tilt - Dixie performs her signature hair twirl and moves slightly forward.

Up Tilt - Diddy’s up tilt

Down tilt - Dixie performs a sweep across the ground with her hair which can trip opponents.

Dash - Dixie’s hair twirl. Very similar to her forward tilt but continues her momentum for short while.

Smash attacks:

Forward Smash (Bubble Gum Gun) - This is basically a combination of Diddy’s Peanut Gun and Mega Man’s buster cannon. The animation is very similar to Diddy’s but the attack only travels as far as Mega Man’s. If she charges too long, the gum blows up in her face like Diddy’s Peanut Gun.

Up Smash - Diddy’s up smash

Down Smash - Dixie strums her electric guitar sending shockwaves around her which slightly stuns opponents before sending them flying.

Grab:

Dixie has a fairly unique grab that functions very similarly to Donkey Kong’s. She grabs the opponent with her hair and carries them over her head. Like DK, she can walk around with them for a bit before tossing them in the chosen direction.

Specials:

Neutral Special (Rambi)- Dixie hops on top of Rambi. The move functions very similarly to Jigglypuff’s roll where Rambi charges up in place before dashing across the screen. Dixie jumps off as soon as the attack is finished.

Forward Special (Squitter): This is the only buddy that Dixie can move around freely while riding it. While riding Squitter, Dixie can fire webs in one of three directions, either straight ahead or in a 45 degree angle up or down depending on the direction held.

Up Special (Squawks): Squawks lifts Dixie and flies upward about the height of Pit’s Brawl special. While flying, Dixie can press neutral special to fire coconuts from Squawks’s mouth.

Down Special (Enguarde): Dixie hops on top of Enguarde and summons a big wave which carries them across and Enguarde jabs anyone in the way with its sword. This attack travels a much shorter distance than Rambi but has a good amount more height and no charge up time.

Aerial Attacks:

Neutral Air - Diddy’s neutral air

Forward Air - Dixie’s signature hair twirl. After performing the attack, you can hold the attack button to glide in a slightly downward trajectory like in her games.

Up Air - Diddy’s up air

Down Air - Diddy’s down air

For Dixie’s second jump, she performs a twirl with her hair that lifts her upwards, which is taken from her ability from Tropicsl Freeze.

Final Smash:

Dixie takes out her guitar and performs her stage victory theme sending huge shockwaves across the screen. This is a lot like Donkey Kong’s Final Smash from Brawl.

I appreciate all the little nods to Dixie and the DKC series' history, but this still feels a little bit too crammed. I know you said you aren't really well versed in competitive Smash but this seems overtuned and super busy.

There's a lot of stuff to reference and you did a good enough job at organizing it, at least all the buddies are specials, but the smash attacks being a projectile and a long range disjoint shockwave attack might be too much imo. Even from a design perspective, most characters use the most "prevalent" part of their anatomy (DK's arms, Mewtwo's tail, Yoshi's head) but Dixie whips out a guitar and a gun for her normals? That's where it gets to be too much, you know?

My biggest criticism would have to be the forward air. I know Smash has kinda moved away from the "this type of move can only do this, that type can only do that" mindset over time, but a gliding forward air? That's a little bit too much. It feels like you ran out of space, but had to add the glide, so it was kinda like... "uhhh, it can go there".

Personally, I'd mostly design Dixie around her long ponytail and her being a female counterpart to Diddy. I know most fans scoff at that idea, but if Luigi can be "weirdo Mario", if Daisy can be "orange flower Peach", and Dark Samus can be "creepy floaty Samus" then I argue Dixie can afford to have some things in common with her partner. Smash tends to tie the counterparts to their original partners from a moveset perspective, and at this point, Dixie would be no exception imo. The bubblegum gun at least needs to be Neutral Special as a parallel to Diddy's peanut popgun.

 

[Gengar84]

I appreciate all the little nods to Dixie and the DKC series' history, but this still feels a little bit too crammed. I know you said you aren't really well versed in competitive Smash but this seems overtuned and super busy.

There's a lot of stuff to reference and you did a good enough job at organizing it, at least all the buddies are specials, but the smash attacks being a projectile and a long range disjoint shockwave attack might be too much imo. Even from a design perspective, most characters use the most "prevalent" part of their anatomy (DK's arms, Mewtwo's tail, Yoshi's head) but Dixie whips out a guitar and a gun for her normals? That's where it gets to be too much, you know?

My biggest criticism would have to be the forward air. I know Smash has kinda moved away from the "this type of move can only do this, that type can only do that" mindset over time, but a gliding forward air? That's a little bit too much. It feels like you ran out of space, but had to add the glide, so it was kinda like... "uhhh, it can go there".

Personally, I'd mostly design Dixie around her long ponytail and her being a female counterpart to Diddy. I know most fans scoff at that idea, but if Luigi can be "weirdo Mario", if Daisy can be "orange flower Peach", and Dark Samus can be "creepy floaty Samus" then I argue Dixie can afford to have some things in common with her partner. Smash tends to tie the counterparts to their original partners from a moveset perspective, and at this point, Dixie would be no exception imo. The bubblegum gun at least needs to be Neutral Special as a parallel to Diddy's peanut popgun.

To each their own I suppose. Like I said, I don’t think a short explanation is ever going to be as convincing as seeing it in action. The down smash wasn’t really meant to be a long range attack and the shockwaves would only reach the length of most medium range down smash attacks. As for the projectile forward smash, it’s not like other characters don’t already have projectile smashes like Mega Man, Snake and Palutena. Villager also has a slingshot as a normal so I don’t see that as a big problem. Not saying you have to like my choices, just trying to explain why I went with what I did.

 

[superprincess]

To each their own I suppose. Like I said, I don’t think a short explanation is ever going to be as convincing as seeing it in action. The down smash wasn’t really meant to be a long range attack and the shockwaves would only reach the length of most medium range down smash attacks. As for the projectile forward smash, it’s not like other characters don’t already have projectile smashes like Mega Man, Snake and Palutena. Villager also has a slingshot as a normal so I don’t see that as a big problem. Not saying you have to like my choices, just trying to explain why I went with what I did.

I'm not saying I don't like the choices, but it's a little much you know? The guitar could be a cool "area of effect" special, but bringing a whole prop just for the down smash?

Also, Snake and Palutena's fsmashes aren't projectiles at all. They just have longer range, but don't actually shoot anything. They're just disjoints (+ Palutena's push-away effect).

The reason Mega Man and Villager have projectile normals is because they're dedicated zoners. Idk if Dixie fits this role, and by what you described, she kinda doesn't.

The ideas are cool though, sorry if I was a little harsh. Didn't mean to ♡

 

[Kirbeh]

In regards to Dixie being Diddy's Luigi or an Animal Buddy summoner...

Have her replacement be TOTSUGEKI with Enguarde. It'd be a simple move that involves one of them.

It's several hours after the fact, but the timing of this post was great. I was reading over the last few pages to catch up and thought of this too right before scrolling down to your post.

I admit, I've never been fond of cramming the animal buddies into Dixie's moveset, but having 1 or 2 like this and maybe Squawks for an Up B would be fine imo.

Rambi should be an AT so the other Kongs (and the other fighters in general) can ride him too. Squitter would also make for a pretty unique AT too so I'd go with him personally.

Then they can squeeze a few more in as stage cameos like Expresso or maybe even stage objects like jumping off of Rattly like a spring.

Overall for Dixie though, I think somewhere in the middle as a Falco style semi clone would work just fine. She's got a Pop Gun like Diddy, maybe shares a tilt here, a Smash there, but otherwise has unique moves with some that happen to have a similar function. A May "totsugeki" style Enguarde for Side Special for example, is pretty much Monkey Flip functionally, just without the option to grab.

 

[Geno Boost]

Diddy and Dixie as duo fighters doesn’t feel right like you can’t compare them to popo and nana who basically play the same in their game origin
Diddy is unique on his own and so is Dixie

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

Dixie should be a Wolf-tier "clone" at the worst imo. When I think about Dixie, I think about floating in the air and slapping the banana ponytail around. Animal buddies in her moveset would feel super tacked on in my opinion.

My ideas for Dixie are simple.
She'd be slower than Diddy on the ground but slightly faster in the air. Her up B would be her Tropical Freeze twirl that makes her rise up into the air (mostly vertically), while her classic DKC twirl would be incorporated through her normal aerial attacks (which would all use her ponytail). Keep A pressed after any aerial and she enters her DKC 2/3 glide animation. This gives her a lot more air speed but she can only move slightly downward, however you can still jump again after it. These attributes would both make her unique and represent the supreme air control she has in DKC games.
Specials, up B aside, are a little less obvious, but I really feel like the turbine jet she does underwater in Tropical Freeze would make for a cool side B, and the chewing gum gun from Tropical Freeze would be a neat variation from Diddy's Peanut Popgun. The chewing gums follow a bouncy trajectory, and they could maybe slow your opponent down for a very brief moment.
Down B I'd make a command grab, referencing the way she grabs barrels with her hair in DKC 2/3. Down smash instead would be her DK's Hand Slap-like attack from Tropical Freeze, and her side and up smash would also use the ponytail, giving her more range.
Grabs and tilts would just use her arms and legs (unlike in the classic games, she grabs stuff with her hands in Tropical Freeze), and the dash attack should be the pirouette also from Tropical Freeze.
Final Smash is cinematic, she sends you into a lake in the far north and she rams you over with DKC3's boat final form, with Kiddy riding along.
Oh and all her victory animations would have her playing her guitar and perform the DKC2's victory jingle!
Dixie lends herself to Smash so well just with her design and established abilities, her getting a jumbled up moveset would just be doubly tragic if she finally gets in all these years later after being one of the most obvious choices for so long...

About Spirits VS Trophies, I think Spirits also work better as a nostalgia blast when they have enough stuff to make them work.
Some of my favorites:
-Black Shadow. Him and Blood Falcon being so damn hard to take down in that fight just projected me back to all the grief those two gave me in F-Zero GX's dreaded Mission 7.
-Andross. Fox fighting Wolf in Venom while Andross constantly throws stuff at him from the background is just so cool.
-Gruntilda. The reference to Klungo's fights in Banjo-Tooie!, and the way they always have a Smash Ball appear after a while so that you can finish her with the Jinjonator. Perfection.
-Salsa from Mother 3. Wario is such a perfect Fassad stand-in, plus the fight taking place in the desert and all the banana peels raining down really took me back.
-Ness's Dad being invisibile is still absolutely hilarious all these years later.
-The Dark Matter spirit fight taking place in Fountain of Dreams, where you have to first take out Dedede, then Nightmare appears and finally you fight Dark Matter itself. It's just perfect.
And there's a lot of others, but I don't want to ramble too much...

Trophies provide a cameo and that's it; Spirits on the other hand really bring a tiny bit of the character's essence into the actual game. They just feel more involved.
On the flipside tough, you might not understand much about Spirit fights based on games you haven't played, but that can't be helped. Maybe a short description would have sufficed.

 

[Serix]

I get such big fanservice-y joy from Spirit battles and just Spirits in general. It's especially cool that you can have your favorite characters all in a little JRPG-esque party giving skills that represent them. Some of my favorites are Silver the Hedgehog making your throws stronger, or Zacian & Zamazenta giving your character's sword the power of god

 

[Wonder Smash]

I enjoy looking at the spirits just as much as I enjoy looking at the trophies, even though I never thought I did at first. It's just something looking at all those artworks from different games all together here. I just find myself looking at them at times. I just can't help it.

I also have fun with the Spirit Battles. i just enjoy the references to the games they represent. It not only makes me look up the games where they came from but it also inspired me to make my own Spirit Battle ideas, as you can see in my signature.

 

[Serix]

I enjoy looking at the spirits just as much as I enjoy looking at the trophies, even though I never thought I did at first. It's just something looking at all those artworks from different games all together here. I just find myself looking at them at times. I just can't help it.

I also have fun with the Spirit Battles. i just enjoy the references to the games they represent. It not only makes me look up the games where they came from but it also inspired me to make my own Spirit Battle ideas, as you can see in my signature.

I like those Spirit ideas, especially the Doom ones. I lack creativity so I kind of just imagined Cacodemons being flying red Kirbys with the spicy curry item or something.

 

[Nabbitfan730]

Let's switch it around a bit.

Are there any stages introduced in Ultimate that you don't like? Why?

Hero's Stage. So bland and uninspiring visually and mechanically that i can't even remember it's name. Out of all the places to represent DQ, why this?

And Moray Towers. Ugly in looks and playing on it too unless you play Omega where it's becomes barren.

I get such big fanservice-y joy from Spirit battles and just Spirits in general.

Spirits Battles was one of best addition to Ultimate and even Smash in general. One of main reason i think Ultimate's multiplayer holds up despite the down-sizes

A step up from Trophies and Event Matches in one stone. I just wish Spirits came with descriptions so you actually learn the characters you are saving.

When it comes Spirit Battles, i always tend to matchups i.e When fighting something like MH or even Pokemon spirits i'll use MH Mii Costume for the former or other enemies or beasts like Piranha Plant for both.

When fighting JRPG spirits especially series i don't know, i just use Sora or even Cloud etc

 

[fogbadge]

The problem with this is that even Nintendo cannot decide if Cranky really is the DK from the original Arcade game. The canon is really, really shaky, so that's where this moveset idea kinda falls apart.

If Cranky were to join Smash, I assume he'd fight with his cane. Summoning random Arcade characters seems weirdly out of character.

If the DK series were to double dip next time, it'd 100% be Dixie as the Isabelle to Diddy's Villager, and Funky as an echo of Donkey with minimal differences.

it's not so much they can't decide so much as they don't care

 

[Gengar84]

I'm not saying I don't like the choices, but it's a little much you know? The guitar could be a cool "area of effect" special, but bringing a whole prop just for the down smash?

Also, Snake and Palutena's fsmashes aren't projectiles at all. They just have longer range, but don't actually shoot anything. They're just disjoints (+ Palutena's push-away effect).

The reason Mega Man and Villager have projectile normals is because they're dedicated zoners. Idk if Dixie fits this role, and by what you described, she kinda doesn't.

The ideas are cool though, sorry if I was a little harsh. Didn't mean to ♡

No worries, no offense taken. Everyone has their own ideas for what they’d like to see and I don’t expect everyone to agree with mine. I just enjoy sharing them. I’m not trying to suggest that my ideas are the only way to make the character work, just what I’d personally love to see the most.

As for my choices, I’m talking about Snake and Palutena’s Up Smashes being projectiles, sorry for not clarifying that. Olimar’s another character with a projectile Smash. I’m not really sure how many projectiles a character needs to be considered a zoner but both Squitter and Squawks fire projectiles as well. Just going by specials alone, that gives her as many as Samus, K. Rool and Isabelle and more than Villager. I don’t see how using a guitar for a Down Smash is any different than Peach’s forward Smash or any of Villager’s or Isabell’s. Again, I’ve never been a competitive player so I tend to focus my movesets on what I think would be fun and unique while using as many of their own existing attacks as possible rather than trying to fit them into any particular archetype. Luckily, a lot of characters have kits that already fit nicely into one.

When making my moveset, I tried to emphasize all the traits that make Dixie Dixie. If I were to give a description of the character, I’d say that she’s a spunky teenage monkey that uses her hair as a weapon and to float around who plays electric guitar. I figured since that was one of the main traits that makes her stand out, that justified it as a move. Like how Peach uses turnips because Super Mario Bros. 2 was her debut playable appearance, I wanted to give Dixie her guitar to call back to DKC2, which was hers. Since I wanted to call back more to the original trilogy than Returns or Tropical Freeze, the Bubble Gum Gun is secondary. Still worth a move slot but I didn’t want it to be as big a focus as Diddy’s so I moved it to a Smash attack.

If you really wanted to simplify the moveset, you could move the gun to her neutral special, the guitar to a taunt and Squitter to her down special (and remove Enguarde). She’d then have Diddy’s remaining Smash attacks. My aim was to try to make her feel distinct from Diddy while still being faithful and true to character. I personally feel like my set accomplishes this but it’s cool if you disagree.

 

[YeppersPeppers]

Sorry for the unrelated topic but I've been playing some of the 3D Ninja Gaiden games (Hayabusa is a top request of mine but I only had the faintest experience with the 3D games) and I just need to mention how absolutely perfectly everything can just be envisioned for the guy when it comes to Smash: Legendary Black Falcon armor as the default with the classic purple outfit as an alt, moveset and movement animations blending elements of the original NES games with his greatly expanded modern moveset, the obvious trailer that recreates the original NES game's opening field duel (I know that's Ryu's father in the opening but it'd still make the perfect trailer with Ryu and another character like Sheik or Greninja), the Next Act victory jingle...it all just fits so naturally.

Obviously the same can be said for a ton of characters. I'm just gushing cause cool ninja is cool and I like cool ninja.