Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Gorgonzales]

Yeah, I will be honest; Moray Towers is fine, but I found it to be an odd choice for a stage in Smash Bros. Ultimate.

I don't remember where (might have been an interview with the devs), but I remember reading somewhere that Moray Towers was chosen because of its verticality, which is what I believe plays a big role in stage selection for Smash.

 

[Wonder Smash]

In that case

TURN AROUND, YOU'RE HEADING THE WRONG WAY

Now you got me thinking about Fighters Megamix again.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

Let's switch it around a bit.

Are there any stages introduced in Ultimate that you don't like? Why?

Personally I think Minecraft World is... Very underwhelming. With something as creatively open as Minecraft, the stage is very bland. And I don't mean simple, I mean bland. Cloud Sea of Alrest is simple, but it stands out in it's layout and it's fun to play on.

Honestly I just don't like that much most of Ultimate new stages. I agree with you on Minecraft world, it's just very boring and since the gimmick of Minecraft is how big the world is, this would have been the time to do a new stages similar to Temple or Palutena's temple with lots of different distinct areas like caves and cool mobs, but they pretty much did nothing aside from a few blocks that you can destroy.

A lot of people are bringing Moray towers and I 100% agree that it's bad. It's such a bad choice not only beause the layout is not fun, but it's not even a really good representation of Splatoon. Even if you're specifically looking at multiplayer stages, Urchin underpass is like THE one that everyone recognize and that was used in every Splatoon trailer.

Mishima dojo is another very underwhelming one. The gimmick is fine, but KoF stadium did it so much better. Having only Heihachi as a cameo is also very disappointing compared to other dlc stages.

Hollow abstion and Northern cave are really good looking, but aside from that there's pretty much no reason to play on them because the layout is too basic (it doesn't help that I don't like the KH music in Smash).

I also think they went a bit overboard with the cameos in some stage. Yeah kind of ironic when I just said that I wish Mishima dojo had more cameos, but the cameos on Cloud sea of Alrest just feels very awkward to me. I think it's because the stages is just so small and having the character doing nothing on the small house feels very unnatural compared to KoF stadium. The cameos in Garreg mach monastery looks very weird too, something with their models looks very off to me.

 

[Sucumbio]

Nah, stages like Corneria definitely feel smaller than they used to be. And speaking of, Cloud Sea of Alrest feels smaller than it should be. I know Azurda wasn’t as big of a Titan as the others, but even then, as a stage, he feels too small for even four players.

This was back on page 500 something and the discourse has been repeated a bunch the last few pages... Why does everyone think this stage is too small? It's wider than battlefield, and the only time it isn't is when gramps turns his head so like is it that gimmick that ruins the stage? I'll agree the top blast zone is a bit too close similar to Halberd, but I just don't feel like the stage is that small or at least isn't as small as the smallest stages in the game at least in terms of "ground" or whatever...?

 

[Geno Boost]

We need trophies back.

But they should have fights attached to unlocking them like Spirits.

Best of both worlds.

my issue with removing spirits and bringing back trophies is that so many character that lacks a 3d model will be absent from smash especially the retro ones

 

[fogbadge]

my issue with removing spirits and bringing back trophies is that so many character that lacks a 3d model will be absent from smash especially the retro ones

You know we’ve had 2D trophies before

 

[Serix]

I thought Spirits were pretty well-done. My only complaint is that they lack the descriptions and other info that Trophies had, which was part of the reason they were so fun to collect IMO.

 

[fogbadge]

I thought Spirits were pretty well-done. My only complaint is that they lack of descriptions and other info that Trophies had, which was part of the reason they were so fun to collect IMO.

there was something fun about the descriptions

 

[Geno Boost]

First, there was the Year of Luigi.

Now this is seems like the Year of Shadow.

I always recreating the Nintendo vs. SEGA rivalry in Smash Bros. Even if it's not the best representation of it, at least we still got Mario vs Sonic.

Who do people think is the next most likely SEGA character for Smash?

-Red from Angry birds
-2nd sonic rep
-SMT rep
-Arle
and this mf

 

[smashkirby]

I thought Spirits were pretty well-done. My only complaint is that they lack of descriptions and other info that Trophies had, which was part of the reason they were so fun to collect IMO.

Honestly, those descriptions were, like, the ONE thing I feel like Spirits (as a concept) messed up on).

I mean, not having them at all, that is.

 

[StormC]

Definitely prefer Spirits to Trophies, especially with how they're integrated as gameplay. It'd be cool if they had descriptions but that's a lot of text to write, so I get it. Trophies feel like they sorta lost their relevancy in an age of fan wikis, as nostalgic as I am for the goofy Melee trophy renders.

One thing I do miss with trophies is fighter profiles, even Smash 64 had that. I want to see what they write about all these fighters from different series.

 

[Geno Boost]

i want to see a description for every Tetris block lol

 

[SPEN18]

Spirits allow more characters to be represented, at the cost of it being fairly underwhelming that said representation is just a ripped png file.
Thing is, Brawl had both Trophies and Stickers, with the Stickers being ripped image files and the Trophies giving select characters a bigger spotlight. So maybe there is a balance that could be struck between the two, even if I find it more likely that they stick with just one type of collectible from here on out. If you really like the Spirit battles, again it's probably not likely but maybe they could do some kind of create-your-own Event Match mode, so you could design your own "Spirit battle" for whatever character you want, without them having to go through the effort themselves to design one for everybody. Idk, a thought.

 

[Ivander]

I honestly think the Spirits are better in the long run. All they really need to do is give descriptions to them.

Although if I could add a couple additional options aside from descriptions, one would allow you to do Spirits without the absurd power difference. Just an option for Smash Battles to only apply the main bonuses from Spirits(like Increased Jump, Increased Movement, Metal Killer, etc) with no Power involved. The other would be adding an Alternate Color editor and when you do the Spirit Battles, the character's colors match that of the Spirit.

 

[Serix]

Also, that Spirit rematch feature they added with Min Min's update was pretty cool but I wish they let you rematch the bosses. There's no dedicated Boss Rush mode and it's kind of a pain to replay the final level in WoL to get the same effect.

 

[Speed Weed]

Honestly if nothing else I'd even appreciate shorter, direct blurbs. Something like say:

"X: From Y, a game about Z. X is (insert a couple character details/backstories/whatever)."

Even something like that would go a long way in just....giving a basic idea of who these characters are. Sure, for characters from the more famous series' we do live in an age of fan wikis (I doubt anyone's gonna have much trouble figuring out who, say, Sigurd is on their own), but some of Ultimate's spirits go deep - like, the deepest the series has ever gone - and for those I think it's still helpful to give at least a quick rundown on who the **** Num Diddly is (I say that lovingly Num Diddly plz don't hurt me)

 

[Noipoi]

As much as I like trophies I wouldn’t mind if we just stuck to PNGs.

But seriously we need those descriptions. They added so much charm.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I don't remember where (might have been an interview with the devs), but I remember reading somewhere that Moray Towers was chosen because of its verticality, which is what I believe plays a big role in stage selection for Smash.

I just like how they brought in my favorite Splatoon stage to rep the series in smash.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Descriptions aside, the only other thing I would have liked with Spirits is the ability to utilize them for Create a Stage. I don't care how cheesy it would have looked, sticking a whole crowd of them in the background of a level would have just been fun.

 

[RileyXY1]

Also, that Spirit rematch feature they added with Min Min's update was pretty cool but I wish they let you rematch the bosses. There's no dedicated Boss Rush mode and it's kind of a pain to replay the final level in WoL to get the same effect.

Although this game actually does have a Boss Rush mode, but it forces you to play as Sephiroth.

 

[NintenRob]

I miss descriptions but they were probably one of the more costly parts. Each description needs to be translated into multiple languages and would need approving by every party involved.

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

The thing with Spirits is that I'm not sure they can actually be reused in future games. I mean, most of the spirit battles would pretty much stay the same.

 

[Serix]

On a separate note, this may be kind of a weird idea, but I wish you could use your amiibo for singleplayer modes. Classic and Spirits already support 2 players so I feel like it would be cool if you could use your amiibo as a CPU P2 of sorts. They could probably just cap their levels at 9 or something.

 

[Gorgonzales]

his victory screen involves him screaming his name while getting uncomfortably close to the camera

Spoiler

 

[DarthEnderX]

I thought Spirits were pretty well-done. My only complaint is that they lack the descriptions and other info that Trophies had, which was part of the reason they were so fun to collect IMO.

Agreed. Spirits are great. Unlike Trophies, they have gameplay applications. And creating 3D models for 1000+ trophies would have been a MASSIVE waste of developmental resources. And it's great how some of the 2d artwork they use is so historical.

Descriptive text would be great, but they're already well done.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I like spirits more because they aren't just ripped from the latest game on the console. The trophies from Brawl, 3DS and Wii U felt lazy because of it.

 

[RealLuigisWearPink]

What I like about spirits is that they allow for more characters and series to be represented in-game

Like, my boy Ryuuta over there would not be acknowledged if it was just trophies lol

 

[Louie G.]

Who do people think is the next most likely SEGA character for Smash?

A second Sonic character, Arle Nadja or both.

It’s obviously hard for me not to show my bias on this - just look at my pfp. But Puyo Puyo is the kind of genre defining classic series that Smash loves to pay homage, and it is handily the second biggest Sega series overall. I suppose on a worldwide scale this isn’t as visible, but in Japan it’s been said Puyo has better brand recognition than Sonic himself. It baffles me we don’t have a Mii Costume or a few spirits by now.

I think people may be jumping the gun a bit on Yakuza. Call it a gut feeling, I suppose. I do truly think Kiryu (or Ichiban at this point… I might even prefer him now) would be a great choice, preferably after the two I mentioned IMO, although would also probably be more of a DLC equipped choice compared to the more humble or insular feeling of the former two. Essentially I think Sega will receive something new in base and I believe Kiryu would just have to wait his turn in that instance. Yakuza / Like a Dragon is on the rise… somewhat comparable to Persona before it, but I dunno. Maybe!

 

[Ivander]

What I like about spirits is that they allow for more characters and series to be represented in-game

Like, my boy Ryuuta over there would not be acknowledged if it was just trophies lol

Wasn't he part of a trophy though in Brawl?

 

[RealLuigisWearPink]

Wasn't he part of a trophy though in Brawl?

that was closer to the release of his games, it probably wouldn’t have happened 11/12 years after the fact

 

[Speed Weed]

Wasn't he part of a trophy though in Brawl?

Yeah, I think what they meant is trophies in Brawl and Smash 4 had a strong lean towards stuff from the past couple consoles due to model reuse and whatnot, and Smash 4 generally saw a huge exodus of content for a lot of these smaller properties, so an approach as widely-encompassing as Spirits helps get all of these characters in again

 

[Gengar84]

If we get Knuckles, I’d love for the gliding mechanic to come back and give him the ability to climb walls. I miss the gliding mechanic overall but I agree it could probably use a bit of a rework so it wasn’t as overpowered.

 

[Serix]

If we get Knuckles, I’d love for the gliding mechanic to come back and give him the ability to climb walls. I miss the gliding mechanic overall but I agree it could probably use a bit of a rework so it wasn’t as overpowered.

That would be cool, but his gliding would most likely be like in the games where it's just going forward. PM did that pretty well

 

[superprincess]

RE: Spirits/Trophies discussion

Spirits are such an obvious rehash of Brawl's Stickers, but with their own mode dedicated to them. Trophies were cut in Ultimate when the two coexisted just fine in Brawl...

Look, I get that there were constraints and that they had to quickly slap together a singleplayer mode after spending the vast majority of their time and resources to characters/stages, but it never felt okay to trade 3D models for PNG's that you can just Google lol. Even though most models in Brawl and especially 4 were reused from other games, the brand new posing and descriptions made them worth it to me.

Maybe it's just me being an artist. I loved being able to zoom into characters and see all their little details by rotating them or changing the lighting. Spirits are just... there. I don't love the gameplay attached to them either, so the "at least they have gameplay functionality!" means nothing to me.

I also really enjoyed the subtle lore implications of trophies. The idea that the fighters are just figurines at the hands of an imaginative child always resonated with me. Especially at the end of Classic mode, when you get the trophy cutscene, it felt like the child was putting down their figurines when playtime is over.

 

[Geno Boost]

i feel like spirits and trophies can coexists together if trophies were specifically for character that do appear in game (like playable, assist, bosses, pokeballs, stage cameos and mii costumes) while spirits are for character don't appear in game

 

[Gorgonzales]

And creating 3D models for 1000+ trophies would have been a MASSIVE waste of developmental resources.

This isn't Melee, they don't create models from scratch anymore except for like a very, very select handful of characters. Which actually brings me to a funny tangent:

I like to think that someone on smash 4's dev team liked Winky so much they went out of their way to create an entirely new model for him from scratch. This model isn't from any DK game as far as I know of and it's one of the very few examples of a S4 trophy not using a pre-existing model. I find it fascinating and it sometimes makes me wonder if some trophies use models that were intended to be used for games but got archived for one reason or another, finding new life through a Smash Bros. cameo.

 

[Will]

This isn't Melee, they don't create models from scratch anymore except for like a very, very select handful of characters. Which actually brings me to a funny tangent:

I like to think that someone on smash 4's dev team liked Winky so much they went out of their way to create an entirely new model for him from scratch. This model isn't from any DK game as far as I know of and it's one of the very few examples of a S4 trophy not using a pre-existing model. I find it fascinating and it sometimes makes me wonder if some trophies use models that were intended to be used for games but got archived for one reason or another, finding new life through a Smash Bros. cameo.

The pose make Winky look like a playable character

 

[Gengar84]

There’s been a surprising lack of love for the animal buddies throughout Smash. I’d at least love to see some of them as summonable assist-trophy like items that you can ride. Either that or incorporate them into Dixie’s moveset.

 

[Dinoman96]

This isn't Melee, they don't create models from scratch anymore except for like a very, very select handful of characters. Which actually brings me to a funny tangent:

I like to think that someone on smash 4's dev team liked Winky so much they went out of their way to create an entirely new model for him from scratch. This model isn't from any DK game as far as I know of and it's one of the very few examples of a S4 trophy not using a pre-existing model. I find it fascinating and it sometimes makes me wonder if some trophies use models that were intended to be used for games but got archived for one reason or another, finding new life through a Smash Bros. cameo.

I'm actually very certain the models used for the trophies for Winky, Expresso, Squitter, etc were initially made by Nintendo's in-house character team in the event that a contractor wanted to use them. It's been confirmed that the new Kremling characters in Barrel Blast and also modern Tiny Kong were all designed by Nintendo's character management team, which makes it clear to me that they were the ones responsible for the modern so called "Paon era" DK designs that are still being used in games today.

 

[Gorgonzales]

I'm actually very certain the models used for the trophies for Winky, Expresso, Squitter, etc were initially made by Nintendo's in-house character team in the event that a contractor wanted to use them. It's been confirmed that the new Kremling characters in Barrel Blast and also modern Tiny Kong were all designed by Nintendo's character management team, which makes it clear to me that were the ones responsible for the modern so called "Paon era" DK designs that are still being used in games today.

Huh, well I'll be. That's actually really neat information, learned something new today! Never thought I'd ever see any leads on the Winky trophy's origins but this theory looks to hold a lot of credence, thanks for sharing!