Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[SMAASH! Puppy]

You know what? This conversation seems totally plausible.

"You know something?"
"What?"
"Kirbyroth."
"OMG yes!"

Gushing over Kirby hats is probably how all Smash negotiation conversations end. lol

 

[CapitaineCrash]

I think that Shovel knight situation is different to Min min and Sephiroth. Min min is a first party character that Sakurai wanted in a base game (or a least, he wanted a Arms rep) and who was also a request from the Arms director so they reconsider the Arms rep. Sephiroth comes from a game that just got a remake, that same remake will probably come to xbox one and/or pc in the near future and have a part 2 in development. The problem with Shovel knight is that nothing really happen to him that would make his assist and spirits role reconsider. He got some small expansions through King of cards and Showdown, but nothing that would make someone say "ok that is huge, he need to be playable now".

To be fair Shantae got a recent games in 2020, but I don't think they will really reconsider her either. There's many way more popular pick for a indie game character that they could work with.

 

[Kokiden]

Looking forward to those Mii Costumes.

Wonder what costumes Sakurai will reveal? Looks like Mii Gunner and co are getting one early from Sephiroth and Pichu.👗🐭🧛‍♂️#SmashBros #SmashBrosUltimate #SuperSmashBros #SmashUltimate #SuperSmashBrosUltimate #FinalFantasy7Remake #Sephiroth #Finalfantasy#NintendoSwitch #Nintendo pic.twitter.com/d8SQdT7PXm

— Archdan (life got busy. be back soon) (@ArchdanMiiverse) December 15, 2020

pic.twitter.com/4Xpr5kUoFG

— V for Valhalla (Getting ready for trade school) (@Valhallakingdom) December 15, 2020

This was in the comments.

People just be going all in, huh?

The artworks ever since Sephy got announced has been pure gold.

 

[7NATOR]

Ken and Sephiroth got good of References Back in Smash 4 when Cloud and Ryu were introduced to the game, The Most out of any other Characers from the Franchise (Okay there was chocobo, but cmon

-Ken was the only one that Had a Trophy, Had 3 of his Themes
-Sephiroth was the most Referenced Character in terms of the Congrats Screen. also for Base game Ultimate, Chrom's Fighter page has a Reference to him

I think there was plans to include them both in future Smash game when they first got their hands on Cloud and Ryu

I don't know what that Suggests for the other 3rd parties, Like Sonic, Mega Man, and Metal Gear.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

Imagine, honestly. "We can't add this fighter who we think people will buy, they're already a .PNG in the game!"

The point isn't that spirits can be playable, but they're not going to pick spirits just for the sake of having more spirits upgrade. This thread always pick the last character without thinking about why they where picked. Like when Banjo was announced, everyone predicted Doom slayer for being another western rep. When Min min was announced, everybody jumped on Rex and first party. Now that Sephiroth is announced everyone's predicting Eggman and Chun-li. I even saw people predicting obscure characters just because "terry was not predicted, so we might get another less predicted character".

 

[Michael the Spikester]

So thinking another character will be deconfirmed tonight?

If not Thursday awaits!

 

[Mikegamer0608]

omg i’d love the big question mark with green aura ... maybe a gunner?

Actually this image is a mini figure set with the ? being Cloud in a dress if your lucky to get it that is. I got this set and got all characters except for the Cloud in a dress which was an extra regular cloud for me.

 

[Momotsuki]

The point isn't that spirits can be playable, but they're not going to pick spirits just for the sake of having more spirits upgrade. This thread always pick the last character without thinking about why they where picked. Like when Banjo was announced, everyone predicted Doom slayer for being another western rep. When Min min was announced, everybody jumped on Rex and first party. Now that Sephiroth is announced everyone's predicting Eggman and Chun-li. I even saw people predicting obscure characters just because "terry was not predicted, so we might get another less predicted character".

I entirely agree with all of this, you've summed up most of my thoughts on this really well. I doubt we will see any more spirit upgrades myself, I just think it's a non-moot point that it isn't off the table.

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

So thinking another character will be deconfirmed tonight?

If not Thursday awaits!

Don't they usually skip the Tuesday events when presentations, etc. are happening? Or am I thinking of something else?

 

[Mushroomguy12]

It's not like people think Spirit Upgrades or more secondary unique 3rd Parties are inherently locks now, it's that they can finally discuss them again after so long without being told "Nuh-uh, not happening, shut up about this character!". The only reason people are discussing them so much now are because of all of the naysayers and fan rule enforcers who tried to shut down all characters in these categories in the past due to their perceived belief that they knew exactly what the developers were thinking.

 

[TwiceEXE]

It's not like people think Spirit Upgrades or more secondary unique 3rd Parties are inherently locks now, it's that they can finally discuss them again after so long without being told "Nuh-uh, not happening, shut up about this character!". The only reason people are discussing them so much now are because of all of the naysayers and fan rule enforcers who tried to shut down all characters in these categories in the past due to their perceived belief that they knew exactly what the developers were thinking.

I don't think I've ever seen anyone in this thread to tell someone to shut up about a character. Nice strawman. The only thing I've seen is people sharing their opinions about which characters are likely and unlikely. Which is perfectly legitimate discussion. Unless you think that only people who agree with you and what you think should be allowed to share their opinions.

 

[Momotsuki]

I think it'd be a cool tidbit, if Master Hand does become playable, for there to be no "Master Hand wins!" announcer call for his victory, since the announcer is busy... letting out his trademark stock villain laugh.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

I don't think I've ever seen anyone in this thread to tell someone to shut up about a character. Nice strawman. The only thing I've seen is people sharing their opinions about which characters are likely and unlikely. Which is perfectly legitimate discussion. Unless you think that only people who agree with you and what you think should be allowed to share their opinions.

They didn't say "shut up about this character" explicitly but they would usually say a "nicer" variant of it, like "Do you really think this is going to happen?" or "You just need to be realistic about what Nintendo would pick!" that would be just as condescending as the aforementioned.

 

[7NATOR]

Since I saw the notion of Characters being Reconsidered for DLC

We already seen Reconsideration regarding Spirits, since Min-Min is already in the game

However we've actually seen Reconsideration for Assist Characters. Squid Sisters and Bomberman are Brand New Mii Costumes that were added, So this shows that at the least, We've seen the Team go back to Assist characters and re-evaluate their Positions

Now as for Any other Assist Characters that could be Reconsidered, There's Waluigi, Shadow, and Shovel Knight that are think are the Characters to Look out For

-Waluigi had Reggie himself say he'll talk to Sakurai about the Demand for Waluigi, So I think there should be consideration there. Also I've noticed that Nintendo seems to be doing more with Waluigi, at least in terms of Social Media posts, Commercials, and Merchandise (well Controllers at least)

-Shadow had His Popularity spike this Speculation cycle too and Sonic's 30th Anniversary is coming up, Which Means Sonic would/Will be relevant from the Period of 2020/2021 (and with the Netflix Movie Leak and Sonic Movie 2, 2022 and perhaps beyond)

-Shovel Knight...I'll be honest I see him more as a Mii Costume than playable character at this time. I guess there have been expansions on the Shovel Knight Game and Shovel Knight has been making Guest Apperances in lots of Games, So perhaps he could be Playable

 

[TwiceEXE]

They didn't say "shut up about this character" explicitly but they would usually say a "nicer" variant of it, like "Do you really think this is going happen?" or "You just need to be realistic about what Nintendo would pick!" that would be just as condescending as the aforementioned.

Well then you should say that instead of putting words in others mouths or pretending that things were stated that were never actually said.

 

[PK Duststorm]

I think it'd be a cool tidbit, if Master Hand does become playable, for there to be no "Master Hand wins!" announcer call for his victory, since the announcer is busy... letting out his trademark stock villain laugh.

Best idea I've heard all year.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Well then you should say that instead of putting words in others mouths or pretending that things were stated that were never actually said.

Excuse me for not listing every single variation of a certain phrase which essentially shared the same meaning and intent as the original phrase anyway. I didn't list any specific users in this either, so I'm not sure what about "putting words in people's mouths" you're going on about.

 

[cashregister9]

Trio Spirit event

【スピリッツイベント】
12/18(金)から3日間、「力をあわせて！ トリオのスピリッツ」を開催！ スピリッツボードにトリオのスピリッツがたくさん出現します。バトル後にもらえる経験値とSPが3倍になるほか、おやつも追加で入手できます。#スマブラSP pic.twitter.com/t8nwI01Jod

— 大乱闘スマッシュブラザーズ【スマブラ公式】 (@SmashBrosJP) December 16, 2020

This tells us nothing in regards to Sephy's release afaik.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Well then you should say that instead of putting words in others mouths or pretending that things were stated that were never actually said.

Things like that are stated all the time.

I don't know why you're getting offended about this. It wasn't even directed at anyone.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

I don't think I've ever seen anyone in this thread to tell someone to shut up about a character. Nice strawman. The only thing I've seen is people sharing their opinions about which characters are likely and unlikely. Which is perfectly legitimate discussion. Unless you think that only people who agree with you and what you think should be allowed to share their opinions.

There was a user on here a while ago who basically told everyone to shut up about spirits and then when Min-Min got in he had a fit on RTC. So yeah, there are people like that.

 

[latsmash]

How the developers feel about assists or not, Waluigi's got a shot, there really isn't a business downside to adding him. Shadow on the other hand, I can only see happening if we got an echo centric pass.

This pass is shaping up to be focused on big names and bigger amounts of cash generated. I'd place my bets on Crash Bandicoot, Dark Souls, Ninja Gaiden, and Waluigi being possible additions, I could be wrong though.

 

[TwiceEXE]

Excuse me for not listing every single variation of a certain phrase which essentially shared the same meaning and intent as the original phrase anyway. I didn't list any specific users in this either, so I'm not sure what about "putting words in people's mouths" you're going on about.

You said that you weren't allowed to discuss characters in this thread because you were told "Nuh-uh, not happening, shut up about this character!". You are generalizing everyone in this thread with a fallacious argument by doing so.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Trio Spirit event

【スピリッツイベント】
12/18(金)から3日間、「力をあわせて！ トリオのスピリッツ」を開催！ スピリッツボードにトリオのスピリッツがたくさん出現します。バトル後にもらえる経験値とSPが3倍になるほか、おやつも追加で入手できます。#スマブラSP pic.twitter.com/t8nwI01Jod

— 大乱闘スマッシュブラザーズ【スマブラ公式】 (@SmashBrosJP) December 16, 2020

This tells us nothing in regards to Sephy's release afaik.

I just finished playing Marvelous: Another Second Island and now I get this Spirit Event that will probably feature Dion, Max and Jack. A coincidence of that magnitude can only mean one thing...

Spoiler

I don't have a punchline

 

[chocolatejr9]

pic.twitter.com/4Xpr5kUoFG

— V for Valhalla (Getting ready for trade school) (@Valhallakingdom) December 15, 2020

This was in the comments.

People just be going all in, huh?

The artworks ever since Sephy got announced has been pure gold.

Me: sees the pink blood

Ding dong, dong ding

"A body has been discovered!"

 

[Swamp Sensei]

You said that you weren't allowed to discuss characters in this thread because you were told "Nuh-uh, not happening, shut up about this character!". You are generalizing everyone in this thread with a fallacious argument by doing so.

Well now you're putting words in their mouth.

Look, this isn't getting anything accomplished. Let's just drop it.

 

[Dinoman96]

I just can't really imagine the Nintendo suits gunning for Waluigi when they literally have a "quality assurance team" for the Mario franchise designed to do things like keeping Waluigi in the spinoff games only.

Reminder:

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Yeah, I’ve seen people come in here quite often just say, “Ugh, talking about Hayabusa again? I’m so sick of this character” so, yeah I don’t really bring up my most wanted because I don’t want anyone to be annoyed by them. It sucks but I’d rather there be decent discussion on what people want rather than being annoyed when I talk about what I want so...

 

[chocolatejr9]

I just can't really imagine the Nintendo suits gunning for Waluigi when they literally have a "quality assurance team" for the Mario franchise designed to do things like keeping Waluigi in the spinoff games only.

Reminder:

Wait, I thought that was still up to debate...

 

[GoodGrief741]

You said that you weren't allowed to discuss characters in this thread because you were told "Nuh-uh, not happening, shut up about this character!". You are generalizing everyone in this thread with a fallacious argument by doing so.

I'll phrase it in a more nuanced way if it pleases you.

Many people operated under the false belief that certain traits disconfirmed a character - or that they pointed to them being redundant or out-prioritized and therefore unlikely enough to be de facto disconfirmed - and these beliefs were prevalent enough that discussion about these characters was a moot point or led to nowhere, even despite the efforts of the few that believed otherwise, therefore leading to those people being discouraged from discussing those characters.

That sound fairer to you? I think everyone who read the post that you're responding to got the gist of it, because hyperbole is a thing that people use all the time, but here it is hopefully made clearer for anyone to see.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

You said that you weren't allowed to discuss characters in this thread because you were told "Nuh-uh, not happening, shut up about this character!". You are generalizing everyone in this thread with a fallacious argument by doing so.

I don’t think a single person in this thread thought they were being generalized except you. Seriously man, no one thought that.

 

[TwiceEXE]

Yeah, I’ve seen people come in here quite often just say, “Ugh, talking about Hayabusa again? I’m so sick of this character” so, yeah I don’t really bring up my most wanted because I don’t want anyone to be annoyed by them. It sucks but I’d rather there be decent discussion on what people want rather than being annoyed when I talk about what I want so...

I guess with Ryu it's because he has been around in leaks for so long and we don't have anything new to really talk about with him. But if people have a problem with a character it's best to stay quite and let other people enjoy discussing them.

 

[latsmash]

I just can't really imagine the Nintendo suits gunning for Waluigi when they literally have a "quality assurance team" for the Mario franchise designed to do things like keeping Waluigi in the spinoff games only.

Reminder:

I'm not so sure, considering the existence of these very characters existing as spirits in the game, not to mention Daisy's addition as an echo. It could go either way really, especially since Waluigi would absolutely make money and a splash on the internet.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Yeah, I’ve seen people come in here quite often just say, “Ugh, talking about Hayabusa again? I’m so sick of this character” so, yeah I don’t really bring up my most wanted because I don’t want anyone to be annoyed by them. It sucks but I’d rather there be decent discussion on what people want rather than being annoyed when I talk about what I want so...

It wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't the same five or six people being talked about all the damn time.

We really need some variety because clearly, our echo chambers don't work.

 

[7NATOR]

I just can't really imagine the Nintendo suits gunning for Waluigi when they literally have a "quality assurance team" for the Mario franchise designed to do things like keeping Waluigi in the spinoff games only.

Reminder:

I don't Think Waluigi will be in this Pass (though I Might change my Mind if Geno's Costume is missing on Thursday)

But Waluigi is in Smash after all. He's an Assist Trophy, but he is in the game in Some form. I guess I could see an issue if Miyamoto Really doesn't want Waluigi Playable, since even with 1st Parties, the Creators do need to be consulted about the characters. But I don't know though

How the developers feel about assists or not, Waluigi's got a shot, there really isn't a business downside to adding him. Shadow on the other hand, I can only see happening if we got an echo centric pass.

This pass is shaping up to be focused on big names and bigger amounts of cash generated. I'd place my bets on Crash Bandicoot, Dark Souls, Ninja Gaiden, and Waluigi being possible additions, I could be wrong though.

You Might be Wrong, but just go with your with the flow. Smash Speculation is just for fun after all

However, I will say I rightfully Disagree about Shadow only being Viable for Echo Pass. I've been saying since the Base game that Shadow as a unique Character is more likely than Echo Shadow. Now I was wrong about Base game, but What I will say is that Fighter Pass 2 Is Shadow's Best Chance to be Playable in the game

 

[Mushroomguy12]

You said that you weren't allowed to discuss characters in this thread because you were told "Nuh-uh, not happening, shut up about this character!". You are generalizing everyone in this thread with a fallacious argument by doing so.

"Everyone" huh? Well someone else already said it but now you're putting words in my mouth.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

You Might be Wrong, but just go with your with the flow. Smash Speculation is just for fun after all

However, I will say I rightfully Disagree about Shadow only being Viable for Echo Pass. I've been saying since the Base game that Shadow as a unique Character is more likely than Echo Shadow. Now I was wrong about Base game, but What I will say is that Fighter Pass 2 Is Shadow's Best Chance to be Playable in the game

Shadow as an Echo still makes sense tho

Not only are they both hedgehogs, but this would also be a direct callback to Adventure 2 where Shadow is constantly mistaken for Sonic by others.

 

[Dinoman96]

But Waluigi is in Smash after all. He's an Assist Trophy, but he is in the game in Some form. I guess I could see an issue if Miyamoto Really doesn't want Waluigi Playable, since even with 1st Parties, the Creators do need to be consulted about the characters. But I don't know though

Keep in mind that Sakurai was the one handling the base game content. Whereas Nintendo selected the DLC fighters.

 

[Speed Weed]

Trio Spirit event

【スピリッツイベント】
12/18(金)から3日間、「力をあわせて！ トリオのスピリッツ」を開催！ スピリッツボードにトリオのスピリッツがたくさん出現します。バトル後にもらえる経験値とSPが3倍になるほか、おやつも追加で入手できます。#スマブラSP pic.twitter.com/t8nwI01Jod

— 大乱闘スマッシュブラザーズ【スマブラ公式】 (@SmashBrosJP) December 16, 2020

This tells us nothing in regards to Sephy's release afaik.

I could have sworn we got this event before

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

Shadow as an Echo still makes sense tho

Not only are they both hedgehogs, but this would also be a direct callback to Adventure 2 where Shadow is constantly mistaken for Sonic by others.

“I’ve spent all these years denying I was a clone of Sonic. And now the only way to get in Smash is I become his actual clone?”

 

[SharkLord]

Can I say that I don't really like the name "fan rule?" I've only seen the term used when trying to disprove something, and the phrase itself is a misnomer. They're not set-in-stone rules, they're just patterns that have stayed so far. It feels like the word's only tossed around when trying to disprove past precedent. One the flipside, I'm going to call out anyone who actually treats them as hard rules.

Semi-related, but it's been only one page and I'm already sick of the phrase "putting words in my mouth." Maybe it's because I haven't read the whole debate in-depth, but it's the same words tossed back and forth and I'm already getting tired of it.