Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Momotsuki]

Y'know, if you take a dig at nobody in particular... and somebody goes and tries to refute whatever it was... is that not a sort of self-own on their behalf? If the shoe fits, and all that.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I just can't really imagine the Nintendo suits gunning for Waluigi when they literally have a "quality assurance team" for the Mario franchise designed to do things like keeping Waluigi in the spinoff games only.

Reminder:

It's possible that the demand is enough to make them reconsider.

When the president of NOA comments on a character's absence, it tells that there is some corporate wiggle room.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I just can't really imagine the Nintendo suits gunning for Waluigi when they literally have a "quality assurance team" for the Mario franchise designed to do things like keeping Waluigi in the spinoff games only.

Reminder:

Fighting can be a sport

 

[TwiceEXE]

Many people operated under the false belief that certain traits disconfirmed a character - or that they pointed to them being redundant or out-prioritized and therefore unlikely enough to be de facto disconfirmed - and these beliefs were prevalent enough that discussion about these characters was a moot point or led to nowhere, even despite the efforts of the few that believed otherwise, therefore leading to those people being discouraged from discussing those characters.

That's just factual though. There ARE many traits that de facto disconfirm characters. To pretend that all video game characters have a chance isn't very logical IMO. Like, I can basically promise you Luke Skywalker from Star Wars or Princess Tina from Adventure Island are not being added as DLC characters. There are haves and have nots when it comes to Smash speculation.

Now, the important thing is to be respectful of others and their opinions. If someone comes into this thread and says "I predict Luke Skywalker and Princess Tina are the next two DLC characters", I'm not going to respond and tell them I think they are wrong. I'll probably not respond at all because they never asked for other opinions and will likely just feel bad if I tell them what I think. But, if they ASK what everyone thinks about those two characters chances. Then sure, I might respond and give them the opinion that I think there is no chance.

I think this is where the big disconnect comes from. Some people are rude and too eager to dump on others opinions. Some people are too sensitive and only want to hear their opinions come from someone else's mouth (keyboard, in this case). But when you are on a public forum, and especially if you ask others what they think, you are probably going to get all matters of viewpoints on a given topic. So everyone should try and be civil, and incivility when theorizing is not acceptable. But realize that people have different opinions and sometimes they aren't making "fan rules" but just giving their thoughts and explaining why they think something is likely or unlikely.

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

I could have sworn we got this event before

Wasn't there one about primary colors or something? I'm pretty sure the viruses were front and center on a different event, and that might be what you're thinking.

 

[Momotsuki]

That's just factual though. There ARE many traits that de facto disconfirm characters. To pretend that all video game characters have a chance isn't very logical IMO. Like, I can basically promise you Luke Skywalker from Star Wars or Princess Tina from Adventure Island are not being added as DLC characters. There are haves and have nots when it comes to Smash speculation.

Now, the important thing is to be respectful of others and their opinions. If someone comes into this thread and says "I predict Luke Skywalker and Princess Tina are the next two DLC characters", I'm not going to respond and tell them I think they are wrong. I'll probably not respond at all because they never asked for other opinions and will likely just feel bad if I tell them what I think. But, if they ASK what everyone thinks about those two characters chances. Then sure, I might respond and give them the opinion that I think there is no chance.

I think this is where the big disconnect comes from. Some people are rude and too eager to dump on others opinions. Some people are too sensitive and only want to hear their opinions come from someone else's mouth (keyboard, in this case). But when you are on a public forum, and especially if you ask others what they think, you are probably going to get all matters of viewpoints on a given topic. So everyone should try and be civil, and incivility when theorizing is not acceptable. But realize that people have different opinions and sometimes they aren't making "fan rules" but just giving their thoughts and explaining why they think something is likely or unlikely.

If you feel that way, that's fine. If it's going to just leave people soured, and you know that... why start in about it?

 

[7NATOR]

Shadow as an Echo still makes sense tho

Not only are they both hedgehogs, but this would also be a direct callback to Adventure 2 where Shadow is constantly mistaken for Sonic by others.

Shadow was Created to be a Darkened, Mirror Image to Sonic, Hence his Name Shadow. From that Standpoint I would agree that he makes sense as an echo, To be Sonic's Shadow

and I do understand in Some SONIC games that he's been functionally Similar to Sonic. Plus he has a Similar body type to Sonic

However with that being said, I don't think he would end up an Echo If he got into Smash. Shadow could still be Sonic's Shadow without having to be an echo Fighter. And I think that's the Direction they will take when they add him

Because Trying to Transition Shadow to Sonic's Moveset in Smash Bros will end up not working out. Sonic's Moveset has Sonic's Flair, but not Shadow's, if you know what I mean

Sonic's Moveset is Mostly based of the Classic Games (Sonic the Fighters in Particular), with the Addition of the Homing Attack. Shadow is a Modern Era character. Shadow is a More Brutal and on Edge character than Sonic. Too Many Animations would have to be changed. remember that Sega has to approve of how Shadow functions in Smash and I don't think they would agree to Make Shadow echo. yes

Shadow can still be very unique while still mirroring Sonic, through incorporating moves Sonic uses, but Sonic doesn't have in Smash, like the Light Speed Dash, Boost, and Black Tornado. They could also pull a Gogeta and make Homing Attack and Spin Dash apart of his Normal Attacks

Shadow's Focus should honestly be on his Chaos Powers and Overwhelming the opponent with his Offense. In regards to Fighter Pass 2 and hypothetically if Shadow was in it (Which I think he will be), I Imagine him to be the a Hard Rushdown character, with the Ultimate Risk and Reward abilities, Since his Chaos Abilities can be very deadly, combined with his Speed.

Chaos Control would give him Access to Teleports that allow Combo Potential, Timeslow/Timestop, Perhaps Teleporting while charging Smash Attacks, etc. He would be balanced very differently from Sonic. No echo. If Sephiroth does not have a Teleport it might be a sign

 

[TwiceEXE]

If you feel that way, that's fine. If it's going to just leave people soured, and you know that... why start in about it?

I don't even know what you are talking about. Can you elaborate a bit, please? This is very vague.

 

[PeridotGX]

I just can't really imagine the Nintendo suits gunning for Waluigi when they literally have a "quality assurance team" for the Mario franchise designed to do things like keeping Waluigi in the spinoff games only.

Reminder:

Toadsworth, Fawful, Dimentio... all dead by the Wahoominati's hands.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Too Many Animations would have to be changed. remember that Sega has to approve of how Shadow functions in Smash and I don't think they would agree to Make Shadow echo. yes

Didn't they make him play exactly like Sonic in Forces?

Plus we've seen with Ken and Chrom that some Echoes can have unique moves, so it's still possible he could have a unique trick or two.

They could also pull a Gogeta and make Homing Attack and Spin Dash apart of his Normal Attacks

That would be horribly unbalanced.

Gogeta worked in FighterZ because everyone throws out beams in their normals, so making a Vegeta super into the normal Ki attack isn't really out of place.

Saying two of Sonic's most obnoxious moves should be A moves is definitely not gonna work though.

If Sephiroth does not have a Teleport it might be a sign

You're reaching so far Sephiroth wishes his Masamune had that much range.

 

[Momotsuki]

Toadsworth, Fawful, Dimentio... all dead by the Wahoominati's hands.

Midbus as a Bowser echo was one of my super long-shot hopes back before Ultimate lauched. And I never knew this team existed, though it makes sense, these literal dinosaurs had to be congregating somewhere. I do know that "the Wahoominati" is the only valid thing to call them though, so thanks for that.

 

[TheCJBrine]

I just can't really imagine the Nintendo suits gunning for Waluigi when they literally have a "quality assurance team" for the Mario franchise designed to do things like keeping Waluigi in the spinoff games only.

Reminder:

What bugs me about this is that, if true, Nintendo isn't sticking to their own word, as the games still aren't consistent. Paper Mario's goombas etc. may be closer to home, but there's still unique characters and stuff that's different from the main series, and heck, the main series sometimes has unique versions of goombas (like cat goombas) etc. and has very unique characters like Cappy, his sister, the other Bonnetons, and many NPC species and enemies.

Mario also got a Waluigi costume in Odyssey.

There were also spinoff games after 2009 that managed to have stuff that goes against this quality-assurance team, so idk. Plus they're hypocritical for keeping Toadette and some others, then, and frankly just really dumb if they're really going to be strict to an extreme when it comes to some character designs (being against designs even if they fit as a unique character from a species, like Goombario and Goombella) yet allow others that are similar in a sense.

 

[Deleted member]

I just can't really imagine the Nintendo suits gunning for Waluigi when they literally have a "quality assurance team" for the Mario franchise designed to do things like keeping Waluigi in the spinoff games only.

Reminder:

.........

WELL, Good thing Smash isn’t a mainline Mario game.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

What bugs me about this is that, if true, Nintendo isn't sticking to their own word, as the games still aren't consistent. Paper Mario's goombas etc. may be closer to home, but there's still unique characters and stuff that's different from the main series, and heck, the main series sometimes has unique versions of goombas (like cat goombas) etc. and has very unique characters like Cappy, his sister, the other Bonnetons, and many NPC species and enemies.

Mario also got a Waluigi costume in Odyssey.

There were also spinoff games after 2009 that managed to have stuff that goes against this quality-assurance team, so idk.

The post says companies were too liberal, not that they were liberal to begin with.

Creative liberties and stuff like that are still allowed. They just control how many of them there can be.

 

[7NATOR]

Didn't they make him play exactly like Sonic in Forces?

Plus we've seen with Ken and Chrom that some Echoes can have unique moves, so it's still possible he could have a unique trick or two.


That would be horribly unbalanced.

Gogeta worked in FighterZ because everyone throws out beams in their normals, so making a Vegeta super into the normal Ki attack isn't really out of place.

Saying two of Sonic's most obnoxious moves should be A moves is definitely not gonna work though.


You're reaching so far Sephiroth wishes his Masamune had that much range.

-I stress that That Shadow Functions similar to Sonic in some SONIC games, but the Transition from Home games to Smash comes in different forms, and has different Expectations

I don't imagine that Sega would be fine with Shadow playing So similar to Sonic in Smash Bros. In Sonic Battle, their movesets were definitely more Separated heavily.

We see different interpretations of Source Material to smash with Many charactres. Rosalina, in her Gameplay, only had a Spin Attack in 3D World. Joker is more focused on the Style of Persona in his moveset than the actual gameplay mechanics, and Byleth is focused on the 3 Weapon Triangle, forgoeing their actual Abilities like Divine Pulse for example

-I think with Shadow, The Spindash and Homing attack, if they were in his moveset as Regular moves, would be Nerfed from Sonics. Like either they are more Punishable even if Blocked, Aren't as Versatile, or has less Priority or Hitboxes (like Shadow lacks the jumping Spindash Hitbox that Sonic has

-It's a Reach, but it's one I might go with

Sephiroth Teleports alot, well at least in his Kingdom Hearts Boss fight, so if he doesn't have that here, I will think that it might be a Sign that Teleport might be saved for more Teleport focused character. If Shadow was in, he'd Chaos Warp technique would definitely be a Big part of his Moveset. yes

 

[TheCJBrine]

The post says companies were too liberal, not that they were liberal to begin with.

Creative liberties and stuff like that are still allowed. They just control how many of them there can be.

I can understand that, though it still bothers me if they're against character designs like the partners in the older Paper Mario games, yet still have similar ones in mainline games.

Otherwise, it's fine, and I guess modern-day Paper Mario may be due to certain individuals anyway (Origami King was good though, a step in the right direction), and maybe the Waluigi thing isn't true, just they don't have any ideas for him (and Wario I guess since he was only in 64 DS).

 

[Wunderwaft]

Just saying but if that supposed Mario quality group supervises Smash then they wouldn't have allowed Sakurai to kill Mario in numerous different trailers, and they certainly wouldn't have allowed him to put K. Rool in Smash. Smash is definitely out of their jurisdiction and they have no say on what happens there.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

-I stress that That Shadow Functions similar to Sonic in some SONIC games, but the Transition from Home games to Smash comes in different forms, and has different Expectations

I don't imagine that Sega would be fine with Shadow playing So similar to Sonic in Smash Bros. In Sonic Battle, their movesets were definitely more Separated heavily.

To quote the last page of this thread, stop putting words in people's mouths.

You don't know how Sega would think of this because you're not Sega.

We see different interpretations of Source Material to smash with Many charactres. Rosalina, in her Gameplay, only had a Spin Attack in 3D World. Joker is more focused on the Style of Persona in his moveset than the actual gameplay mechanics, and Byleth is focused on the 3 Weapon Triangle, forgoeing their actual Abilities like Divine Pulse for example

The Spin Attack is a nod to the Galaxy games, where Rosalina also debuted. I thought it was a neat represenation.

Persona's gameplay mechanics are based on a turn-based combat, so I guess it makes sense for us not to have too much of the actual gameplay.

And for Byleth, that one's ironic since Three Houses dropped the Weapon Triangle mechanic, but this still references the game, as units can carry any type of weapon regardless of class. Also, Divine Pulse would probably be a nightmare to program.

Sephiroth Teleports alot, well at least in his Kingdom Hearts Boss fight, so if he doesn't have that here, I will think that it might be a Sign that Teleport might be saved for more Teleport focused character. If Shadow was in, he'd Chaos Warp technique would definitely be a Big part of his Moveset. yes

Or maybe it's just that Sakurai had a cooler idea than a teleport? Like maybe something like an Octoslash that can go in eight directions to fully commit to a pun?

Also, the sheer idea of giving someone of his sheer range an actually safe teleport recovery... How much do you know about game design?

 

[shinhed-echi]

Stupid theory time

What if, we get the exact same companies represented in Fighter Pass 2 than we did in the first?

Nintendo: Byleth + Min-Min
SEGA: Joker + ???
Square-Enix: Hero + Sephiroth
Microsoft: Banjo + Steve
SNK: Terry + ???
Bonus:
Nintendo: Piranha Plant + ???

Who do you think would be the most likely?

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Stupid theory time

What if, we get the exact same companies represented in Fighter Pass 2 than we did in the first?

Nintendo: Byleth + Min-Min
SEGA: Joker + ???
Square-Enix: Hero + Sephiroth
Microsoft: Banjo + Steve
SNK: Terry + ???
Bonus:
Nintendo: Piranha Plant + ???

Who do you think would be the most likely?

SNK is hard since Terry brought basically everything SNK...

I guess Geese because memes?

 

[PeridotGX]

I remember thinking Steve was a lock for pass 1, because Isabelle wasn't a terraformer.

After that, I think speculating on characters because of how other characters work is a bad argument

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I can understand that, though it still bothers me if they're against character designs like the partners in the older Paper Mario games, yet still have similar ones in mainline games.

Otherwise, it's fine, and I guess modern-day Paper Mario may be due to certain individuals anyway (Origami King was good though, a step in the right direction), and maybe the Waluigi thing isn't true, just they don't have any ideas for him (and Wario I guess since he was only in 64 DS).

Re-read the post. Wahoominati was to control other companies, not Nintendo themselves.

So this essentially shows us that Nintendo is allowed to be as creative as they want while any other studio can just go **** themselves and bend to Nintendo's will.

 

[Momotsuki]

Just saying but if that supposed Mario quality group supervises Smash then they wouldn't have allowed Sakurai to kill Mario in numerous different trailers, and they certainly wouldn't have allowed him to put K. Rool in Smash. Smash is definitely out of their jurisdiction and they have no say on what happens there.

And thank god, imagine who they'd pick for any other Mario reps. Instead of something creative like Piranha Plant, we might've gotten Captain Toad, eugh.

Stupid theory time

What if, we get the exact same companies represented in Fighter Pass 2 than we did in the first?

Nintendo: Byleth + Min-Min
SEGA: Joker + ???
Square-Enix: Hero + Sephiroth
Microsoft: Banjo + Steve
SNK: Terry + ???
Bonus:
Nintendo: Piranha Plant + ???

Who do you think would be the most likely?

Most likely - in this scenario?
Nintendo: Byleth + Min-Min
SEGA: Joker + Beat
Square-Enix: Hero + Sephiroth
Microsoft: Banjo + Steve
SNK: Terry + Marco
Bonus:
Nintendo: Piranha Plant + Master Hand

 

[TwiceEXE]

Stupid theory time

What if, we get the exact same companies represented in Fighter Pass 2 than we did in the first?

Nintendo: Byleth + Min-Min
SEGA: Joker + ???
Square-Enix: Hero + Sephiroth
Microsoft: Banjo + Steve
SNK: Terry + ???
Bonus:
Nintendo: Piranha Plant + ???

Who do you think would be the most likely?

Sega has a lot of options. I don't think Sakura is as likely as others do, but I'll say her for fun
Nintendo, likewise, has a ton of characters. I'll say Rex because it seems like a safe bet.
SNK would be Mai, no question.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Re-read the post. Wahoominati was to control other companies, not Nintendo themselves.

So this essentially shows us that Nintendo is allowed to be as creative as they want while any other studio can just go **** themselves and bend to Nintendo's will.

That's what bothers me, they do this to others out of needlessly fearmongering over brand consistency (despite people loving their past stuff and it doing no damage at all), then do it themselves anyway. Though still, I believe at least a few spinoffs after 2009 kinda went against this, like Dream Team (although its enemies and stuff were mostly unique, there was at least one enemy that was basically an altered goomba plus some actual goombas that were different-colored).

 

[cashregister9]

Stupid theory time

What if, we get the exact same companies represented in Fighter Pass 2 than we did in the first?

Nintendo: Byleth + Min-Min
SEGA: Joker + ???
Square-Enix: Hero + Sephiroth
Microsoft: Banjo + Steve
SNK: Terry + ???
Bonus:
Nintendo: Piranha Plant + ???

Who do you think would be the most likely?

Joker + Sakura
Terry + Marco
P-Plant + Inteleon

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

That's what bothers me, they do this to others out of needlessly fearmongering over brand consistency (despite people loving their past stuff and it doing no damage at all), then do it themselves anyway. Though still, I believe at least a few spinoffs after 2009 kinda went against this, like Dream Team (although its enemies and stuff were mostly unique, there was at least one enemy that was basically an altered goomba plus some actual goombas that were different-colored).

Again, they're not banning the concept of being creative, only limiting it.

Whatever you see in the games is stuff the Wahoominati agreed to, so it can't be against "this" if "this" agreed to it. Plain and simple.

 

[N3ON]

I just can't really imagine the Nintendo suits gunning for Waluigi when they literally have a "quality assurance team" for the Mario franchise designed to do things like keeping Waluigi in the spinoff games only.

Reminder:

I would imagine that anyone who can have Death pare Luigi's soul from his body is less subject to the restrictions other parties might be.

 

[7NATOR]

To quote the last page of this thread, stop putting words in people's mouths.

You don't know how Sega would think of this because you're not Sega.


The Spin Attack is a nod to the Galaxy games, where Rosalina also debuted. I thought it was a neat represenation.

Persona's gameplay mechanics are based on a turn-based combat, so I guess it makes sense for us not to have too much of the actual gameplay.

And for Byleth, that one's ironic since Three Houses dropped the Weapon Triangle mechanic, but this still references the game, as units can carry any type of weapon regardless of class. Also, Divine Pulse would probably be a nightmare to program.


Or maybe it's just that Sakurai had a cooler idea than a teleport? Like maybe something like an Octoslash that can go in eight directions to fully commit to a pun?

Also, the sheer idea of giving someone of his sheer range an actually safe teleport recovery... How much do you know about game design?

-I Know, But I'm just trying to respond to the Point of "They make Shadow Similiar in Forces, so they make him Similiar in Smash"

But it doesn't work exactly like that though, that's the thing. Smash and Sonic games are a Different ball game

Plus I think people focus too much on the Gameplay aspects as well. There's also the Cutscenes, Boss fights, and Lore to Consider, but even without that there have been games where Shadow plays Differently from Sonic

-It may have been a Galaxy mod, but it didn't give the Smash team much to work with in terms of Source material. Most of Rosalina's moveset is based of the Actual Galaxy games...where she wasn't playable, or on the lore about her being intergalactic and having Lumas by her side

For Joker, they could have made Joker's moveset more reliant on Arsene, where Arsene does most of the fighting, since I'm assuming that's the majority of the Combat in Persona

as for Divine Pulse, it probably would not have fit with Byleth's Archetype , but it's possible they might put a move like that on a Character that's focused around Time ...like Shadow the Hedgehog

-This is probably likely the reason, but It's still something that could be interesting

and They could give Sephiroth a Teleport and have him be balanced. perhaps make it tied to the Wing Mechanic we don't have any idea what it does

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

-I stress that That Shadow Functions similar to Sonic in some SONIC games, but the Transition from Home games to Smash comes in different forms, and has different Expectations

I don't imagine that Sega would be fine with Shadow playing So similar to Sonic in Smash Bros. In Sonic Battle, their movesets were definitely more Separated heavily.

We see different interpretations of Source Material to smash with Many charactres. Rosalina, in her Gameplay, only had a Spin Attack in 3D World. Joker is more focused on the Style of Persona in his moveset than the actual gameplay mechanics, and Byleth is focused on the 3 Weapon Triangle, forgoeing their actual Abilities like Divine Pulse for example

-I think with Shadow, The Spindash and Homing attack, if they were in his moveset as Regular moves, would be Nerfed from Sonics. Like either they are more Punishable even if Blocked, Aren't as Versatile, or has less Priority or Hitboxes (like Shadow lacks the jumping Spindash Hitbox that Sonic has

-It's a Reach, but it's one I might go with

Sephiroth Teleports alot, well at least in his Kingdom Hearts Boss fight, so if he doesn't have that here, I will think that it might be a Sign that Teleport might be saved for more Teleport focused character. If Shadow was in, he'd Chaos Warp technique would definitely be a Big part of his Moveset. yes

Personally, I think it probably depends on the circumstances of how Shadow was added. In DLC, there's no way he'd be made an echo, if only because we've been told there won't be any echoes. In a new base game situation, it could go either way. You've made some points about how Shadow doesn't really fight like Sonic when it comes to martial arts, and I think that's definitely worth keeping in mind. We don't entirely know how Sega would feel about the whole situation (unless you know something I don't), so you could very well be right. It could also swing the other way if they aren't picky about it.

My one counterpoint is that Lucina (and to a lesser extent Chrom) exists. In FE she doesn't fight anything like how she fights in Smash. The only reason she exists in Smash the way she does is because Marth is basically the King Arthur of her world and she cosplays as him to keep morale up. that's it. So while I do agree that a faithful Shadow would take more work (probably at least semi-clone material), I sadly don't know whether the developers would care enough. There's precedent that they could and there's precedent that they might not in the wrong situation (namely base game if they were specifically looking for potential clones to fill out some spare development time). If Shadow happens as DLC, you'd definitely be in luck though, so I'm not going to tell you to give up hope.

 

[GoodGrief741]

That's just factual though. There ARE many traits that de facto disconfirm characters. To pretend that all video game characters have a chance isn't very logical IMO. Like, I can basically promise you Luke Skywalker from Star Wars or Princess Tina from Adventure Island are not being added as DLC characters. There are haves and have nots when it comes to Smash speculation.

Now, the important thing is to be respectful of others and their opinions. If someone comes into this thread and says "I predict Luke Skywalker and Princess Tina are the next two DLC characters", I'm not going to respond and tell them I think they are wrong. I'll probably not respond at all because they never asked for other opinions and will likely just feel bad if I tell them what I think. But, if they ASK what everyone thinks about those two characters chances. Then sure, I might respond and give them the opinion that I think there is no chance.

I think this is where the big disconnect comes from. Some people are rude and too eager to dump on others opinions. Some people are too sensitive and only want to hear their opinions come from someone else's mouth (keyboard, in this case). But when you are on a public forum, and especially if you ask others what they think, you are probably going to get all matters of viewpoints on a given topic. So everyone should try and be civil, and incivility when theorizing is not acceptable. But realize that people have different opinions and sometimes they aren't making "fan rules" but just giving their thoughts and explaining why they think something is likely or unlikely.

People were talking about wanting to discuss characters who happened to have Spirits and feeling like they had no place to do so, so the fact that your point of comparison was freaking Luke Skywalker says a lot about where you stand on the subject.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

Lately Nintendos been the epitome of "2 steps forward, 1 Step Back". Some of they're decisions honestly make my blood boil.

 

[N3ON]

Lately Nintendos been the epitome of "2 steps forward, 1 Step Back". Some of they're decisions honestly make my blood boil.

Lately being... since about the mid 90s.

 

[TwiceEXE]

People were talking about wanting to discuss characters who happened to have Spirits and feeling like they had no place to do so, so the fact that your point of comparison was freaking Luke Skywalker says a lot about where you stand on the subject.

Your post didn't say anything about spirits. At all. Just a statement about certain traits being disconfirmations. I was responding specifically to what you wrote, which I addressed quite thoroughly IMO.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

Lately being... since about the mid 90s.

I mostly referring to #FreeMelee but it is true they've been making these decisions for a while

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

-I Know, But I'm just trying to respond to the Point of "They make Shadow Similiar in Forces, so they make him Similiar in Smash"

But it doesn't work exactly like that though, that's the thing. Smash and Sonic games are a Different ball game

Plus I think people focus too much on the Gameplay aspects as well. There's also the Cutscenes, Boss fights, and Lore to Consider, but even without that there have been games where Shadow plays Differently from Sonic

I'm saying it's possible for him to be an Echo, not the only way. You're literally getting offended about something that wasn't meant to offend in any way.

as for Divine Pulse, it probably would not have fit with Byleth's Archetype

The archetype of "each direction is a different weapon" would clash heavily with Divine Pulse. It's not just a "probably" thing here, but the fact that Divine Pulse would literally be the most counterintuitive thing they could give in the moveset, let alone how hard it could be to code it.

but it's possible they might put a move like that on a Character that's focused around Time ...like Shadow the Hedgehog

.......Did you literally just claim Byleth doesn't have Divine Pulse because of Shadow?

 

[N3ON]

I mostly referring to #FreeMelee but it is true they've been making these decisions for a while

I get it but Nintendo's never been short of polarizing, oftentimes questionable decisions since I started paying attention to them.

The quality of their software and the value of their IP lets them ride out almost anything.

 

[Momotsuki]

Lately Nintendos been the epitome of "2 steps forward, 1 Step Back". Some of they're decisions honestly make my blood boil.

Y'know - I kind of like Nintendo EAD, and its other development divisions. I also really like Mr. Sakurai's work, a lot. But I don't consider myself a "Nintendo fan" in the slightest. Nintendo, the company, has shown nothing but contempt for those who have appreciated it. And despite my years of trying to look away, it hits you after a while, and so I really just don't like them anymore - y'know, you defend them at first but after a while it sets in that the company is anything but your friend. But I've got an open mind here. If the Nintendo I remember ever decides to come back, my respect will certainly follow. Until then, though, this is where we are.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Again, they're not banning the concept of being creative, only limiting it.

Whatever you see in the games is stuff the Wahoominati agreed to. Plain and simple.

I understand they're limiting it, it just feels too extreme and kinda dumb in the case of Paper Mario at least and, if what the insider said is true, them going against Waluigi and possibly other characters for stupid, nonsense reasons ._.

Though maybe those extreme restrictions are just due to certain individuals like Tanabe, since sometimes the limits seem perfectly fine tbh even if at the cost of more unique Toad NPCs (like in Superstar Saga and Bowser's Inside Story, though at least unique Toads with their own names aren't off the table (dang it Tanabe)), and idk about Waluigi based on this (intentionally keeping him out of mainline games?) since they at least referenced him in Odyssey...and sometimes still use old characters in stuff whether it's a game or something else, like how Miyamoto seems to like bringing back old characters if he has an idea for them (yes I'm aware he's not working on stuff now, though, as he's busy with other matters)...

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

The thing about that Waluigi statement is that it was more in context of actual Mario games. Super Smash Bros. is not part of the Super Mario series. And spin-off isn't obviously a catch-all term either. Since the RPG's(though only Paper Mario now) is basically its own subset, and not just because one story confirmed Paper Mario is not the same person as regular Mario either.

As for Shadow, he works fine as an echo. What he needs is basic animation changes like karate chops, cause he only punches at best in Sonic X. Also, his popularity got him into Sonic Heroes... as a Sonic clone again. Which was developed around the same time as Sonic Battle, the first game where he had any real uniqueness. And that game clearly had Sonic and Shadow still have similarities. They had similar stats, almost mirrored attacks in the way they're designed for a ton of the non-specials, and even the same basic stats for heal/jump/etc. stuff. They even share almost identical color cards. They still played differently(Shadow is one of the strongest characters in the game, despite having one of the weakest Attack Supports, being a 3, due to simply being given very powerful attacks). Come Shadow the Hedgehog, the game doesn't really make Shadow stick out that much from Sonic either. He has a few unique abilities, but he's still been borrowing from Sonic's repertoire too. He's still a spin-off of his abilities. Sonic 06? He's slightly better, due to all kind of new abilities/upgrades and such. They also had their own unique mechanic for core gameplay, the first time they really were hard separated. And other games pretty much have them play the same.

Another issue here is that Sonic doesn't do anything that's beyond specific to him at this point. Shadow can literally do all of that just fine. You want to change a few animations? Sure. Chops/more side kicks, and you're golden. Add a few Chaos effects, and he's perfect. Though I do think they'd actually change up slight things like his speed and power, but it's unclear how much different those can be before they stop using the Echo label.

The most important thing about an Echo, anyway, is the same bodyshape, or almost identical to the point you have barely inches in terms of differences(or pixels, if you will). Lucina definitely had that only because she was a costume, being an actual outlier. She woudln't have made sense as an Echo otherwise, if they were using her exact bodyshape. Though maybe I'm off on their comparisons, cause I don't think she's really like how different Isabelle is from Villager.