Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Wunderwaft]

Worth noting I doubt they stopped using the ballot at any point. There's no reason to ignore it when it makes for a lot of good picks as is. It gives them neat ideas to use, and also tells a good amount of what can easily sell. Besides that, it specifically said it could be used for future Smash games. That's with an S. There's little reason to believe they're using it once and that's it.

I honestly doubt that. Look at the first fighters pass and only one of them was a ballot pick, and the first pass was decided alongside the development of the base game which heavily focused on the ballot. Ultimate in sales has reached something close to 18 million, the first ballot had something close to 2 million votes. The disparity between Smash fans back in 2015 and in 2020 is far too huge in numbers for Sakurai or Nintendo to use the original ballot again for reference. If they did want to hear fan requests directly from fans they'd have already made a new ballot and asked people to vote on it rather than rely on an old poll that is outdated and isn't a representation of the fanbase's current requests.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I honestly doubt that. Look at the first fighters pass and only one of them was a ballot pick, and the first pass was decided alongside the development of the base game which heavily focused on the ballot. Ultimate in sales has reached something close to 18 million, the first ballot had something close to 2 million votes. The disparity between Smash fans back in 2015 and in 2020 is far too huge in numbers for Sakurai or Nintendo to use the original ballot again for reference. If they did want to hear fan requests directly from fans they'd have already made a new ballot and asked people to vote on it rather than rely on an old poll that is outdated and isn't a representation of the fanbase's current requests.

I don't see any good reason for them to stop using it whatsoever. There's a ton of suggestions there that would easily please the fans, but also provide them good companies to work with as is.

There's no downside at all here.

And let's be real, this idea there's some giant change of "what people want" isn't really that high. Promoting their new games here and there is important, but the fan wants are off the charts too. Golden Sun is one big example of massive popularity than Nintendo weren't even that aware of(well, apparently), but Sakurai sure was thanks to the ballot. We more than double GS representation. Nintendo might not choose GS if it doesn't really benefit them(like a new game), but they do get a lot out of other fan picks from various companies, as it provides good relationships. This is a huge part of why the ballot is always going to be useful. This means there's a market for these characters. It might be slightly smaller than it used to be, but fan demand has not swayed one bit. People are still flabbergasted at Waluigi being an AT as is. Geno is one of the biggest fan demands to this day. People were vastly surprised ARMS didn't get a character at the start too. The fact it got one was "about time, should've been base" as a notable response.

So little has changed when it comes to usage of the ballot. So no, I don't see why they would stop using it remotely. Not for every character, but it's just a massively useful tool for years to come. Which they pretty much made clear they intend to use it for more than just "one game" anyway. DLC isn't really all that different in the end. Especially when it's been made clear that there isn't going to be another Ultimate, as there's just too much licensing required. Besides that, they struggled to get it out with all the base characters, while having to cut many things(Trophies were partially cut due to time constraints, and Spirits were vastly easier to do). Modes were cut en masse as is. Even the final game had its share of bugs and balance issues, which we got a lot of patches since then.

 

[Freduardo]

I honestly doubt that. Look at the first fighters pass and only one of them was a ballot pick, and the first pass was decided alongside the development of the base game which heavily focused on the ballot. Ultimate in sales has reached something close to 18 million, the first ballot had something close to 2 million votes. The disparity between Smash fans back in 2015 and in 2020 is far too huge in numbers for Sakurai or Nintendo to use the original ballot again for reference. If they did want to hear fan requests directly from fans they'd have already made a new ballot and asked people to vote on it rather than rely on an old poll that is outdated and isn't a representation of the fanbase's current requests.

yeah, but look at the main roster additions. Returning all old characters. Inkling, Daisy, Chrom, Ridley, Simon/Richter, Isabelle, Ken, and K Rool... really except for Inciniroar, do you think any of them did poorly in the ballot? There was none of those without some sort of decent sized following.

Though a new poll would be nice as the gaming landscape and smash rosters have changed over time.

 

[Wunderwaft]

I don't see any good reason for them to stop using it whatsoever. There's a ton of suggestions there that would easily please the fans, but also provide them good companies to work with as is.

There's no downside at all here.

And let's be real, this idea there's some giant change of "what people want" isn't really that high. Promoting their new games here and there is important, but the fan wants are off the charts too. Golden Sun is one big example of massive popularity than Nintendo weren't even that aware of(well, apparently), but Sakurai sure was thanks to the ballot. We more than double GS representation. Nintendo might not choose GS if it doesn't really benefit them(like a new game), but they do get a lot out of other fan picks from various companies, as it provides good relationships. This is a huge part of why the ballot is always going to be useful. This means there's a market for these characters. It might be slightly smaller than it used to be, but fan demand has not swayed one bit. People are still flabbergasted at Waluigi being an AT as is. Geno is one of the biggest fan demands to this day. People were vastly surprised ARMS didn't get a character at the start too. The fact it got one was "about time, should've been base" as a notable response.

So little has changed when it comes to usage of the ballot. So no, I don't see why they would stop using it remotely. Not for every character, but it's just a massively useful tool for years to come. Which they pretty much made clear they intend to use it for more than just "one game" anyway. DLC isn't really all that different in the end. Especially when it's been made clear that there isn't going to be another Ultimate, as there's just too much licensing required. Besides that, they struggled to get it out with all the base characters, while having to cut many things(Trophies were partially cut due to time constraints, and Spirits were vastly easier to do). Modes were cut en masse as is. Even the final game had its share of bugs and balance issues, which we got a lot of patches since then.

Yes, there is a huge change in requested characters currently compared to 2015, a lot of wanted characters got in which generated a powergap that was filled with other characters. People who wanted Ridley and K. Rool for example got their characters but it doesn't mean they also wanted Geno or Isaac, different fanbases exist and these fanbases probably have other characters they want. If they voted again they probably will vote for different characters which would result in much different results.

Dante, 2B, and Master Chief are characters that are newly highly requested in the Smash fandom and they weren't that popular during the ballot era, and in the case of 2B she didn't even exist when the ballot was a thing. Hell, Joker wasn't a thing when the ballot existed and he got in and built a stronger connection between Nintendo and Atlus. SNK was still dead when the ballot was a thing and it rebuilt itself back in the years after the ballot and it got in Smash.

The gaming landscape in 2015 compared to 2020 is far, FAR, too different to actually be used as reference material for future character picks. So many companies have changed, so many new franchises were created, and so many partnerships were made since then. Times have changed and the fanbase has changed. So many people were introduced to Smash through Ultimate as their first game, which is clear when Ultimate is the best selling Smash game of all time.

yeah, but look at the main roster additions. Returning all old characters. Inkling, Daisy, Chrom, Ridley, Simon/Richter, Isabelle, Ken, and K Rool... really except for Inciniroar, do you think any of them did poorly in the ballot? There was none of those without some sort of decent sized following.

Though a new poll would be nice as the gaming landscape and smash rosters have changed over time.

My point was in regards to the ballot having a major effect for DLC. We know that the ballot played a big role for Ultimate's base game and I never said anything opposite to this fact. When looking at the picks made for the first fighters pass, can you honestly say Joker or Byleth were ballot picks when they didn't even exist at that point in time?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Yes, there is a huge change in requested characters currently compared to 2015, a lot of wanted characters got in which generated a powergap that was filled with other characters. People who wanted Ridley and K. Rool for example got their characters but it doesn't mean they also wanted Geno or Isaac, different fanbases exist and these fanbases probably have other characters they want. If they voted again they probably will vote for different characters which would result in much different results.

Dante, 2B, and Master Chief are characters that are newly highly requested in the Smash fandom and they weren't that popular during the ballot era, and in the case of 2B she didn't even exist when the ballot was a thing. Hell, Joker wasn't a thing when the ballot existed and he got in and built a stronger connection between Nintendo and Atlus. SNK was still dead when the ballot was a thing and it rebuilt itself back in the years after the ballot and it got in Smash.

The gaming landscape in 2015 compared to 2020 is far, FAR, too different to actually be used as reference material for future character picks. So many companies have changed, so many new franchises were created, and so many partnerships were made since then. Times have changed and the fanbase has changed. So many people were introduced to Smash through Ultimate as their first game, which is clear when Ultimate is the best selling Smash game of all time.

I don't think it's remotely as far as you're suggesting.

Those tons of fanpicks still exist and are not playable yet. Or even have a Mii costume as a consolation prize.

More new fanpicks obviously exist too, but it's very easy to take both into account and please both sides. There's literally 5 left, and I highly doubt we won't get anyone with fan demand on the ballot. To be honest, Master Chief and Dante are massively strong character requests due to their legacy. They likely got a chunk of votes on the ballot regardless of the Nintendo-only fanrule, which isn't really a casual fanbase thing, but for hardcore fans. 2B would be the only one that probably didn't get a lot of votes of the three. So they're not all the best plausible examples here. Even then, the idea there's not a lot of relevant options among the ballot today is silly. Of course there are. There's thousands of notable characters that are very active to this day among ballot stuff to go on.

They have enough to go on for multiple games, and it'll still be major sellers. The ballot was never going to be the only kind of picks, but it clearly influenced a lot of Ultimate, including the first part of DLC. The chances of it influencing the second pass is pretty high, really. Not to mention how many Mii costumes can easily be influenced by the ballot. Though it's hard to say which is which, but that's one of many ways to use it. It's not just for playable characters, but for Smash in general. That was also part of the point of the ballot, to help them along. But a reminder is that they pretty much said that it's meant to be used for multiple Smash games. It'd be easy to argue they didn't continue to use it for DLC, but they clearly did. Nothing makes Fighter's Pass 2 anywhere near different either. Challenger Pack 6 isn't a fanpick, sure(to a degree. There's clearly been a huge question mark on why ARMS wasn't playable in base for a while. But it's not technically a fanpick, but easily had some demand to fix what was considered an error in the base roster).

 

[pinshadow]

So I've been looking over the ARMS roster and just the game in general and trying to piece together who the most likely candidates are when I started actually thinking about how the character is going to play. Sakurai made it clear in his twitter posts that they've had trouble sticking to the rules of Smash and balancing the character while also keeping the spirit of ARMS intact, and to prepare for a fighter with "entirely original mechanics". He's making it clear this is a very unique character right from the get go, and I can't recall him ever doing that before. Sure, Smash characters have gotten progressively gimmickier over the years, but I have to wonder, what exactly does that mean for ARMS?

Well, let's think about it. The actual gameplay of ARMS is pretty simple. You have two ARMS you can attack with and angle with a variety of different types, you can jump and dash around, you can grab with both arms, and you can block, which charges up your arms to do more damage and other effects, and you build up a charge meter over time that lets you activate a rush and do a flurry of attacks. Really, that's about it. How do you make a traditional Smash moveset out of this? You could just have the standard attacks be basic punches and swipes, but how do you incorporate things like different ARM types? It's one of the core mechanics of the game, Sakurai isn't just going to gloss over that. And what do you do with all the special moves, how do they recover? Having the ARMS just change type to suit whatever move he wants them to be doesn't fit ARMS well and would probably look janky. And how do you incorporate the fact that both ARMS are meant to be independent? Or things like charging the arms while shielding, or that they do a ranged grab with both ARMS? What about stuff like ARMS being disabled? And it is a fighting game character like Ryu/Terry, so is he also going to make them face the opponent at all times? Not to mention the giant range?

This could be extremely wrong, but I feel like Sakurai is going to go completely off the rails here and make an entirely unique fighting style based around ARMS. What do I mean? The Fighter always faces the opponent, and has no standard attacks, and no specials. They'll have a standard ledge and get up attack, as well as normal throws and pummels, but everything else is different. Instead, the A button is mapped to the left arm, and the B button the right. Controls exactly like ARMS, push the button, and the arm will fire out and you can angle it with the left stick, and it takes a bit for it to retract. You can fire each of them independently, and they aren't considered part of the fighter, as in, they can be shielded, but only the ARM itself is a hitbox, the spring part is not, and attacking the ARM doesn't do damage to the fighter, but the ARM itself, and once it takes enough the ARM will break, similar to how K.Rools armor health works, and that ARM will be disabled for a time. Grabs are done using both ARMS, having a long range but a massive opening if they miss, and the grab can be done in the air just like the game, and can also grab ledge, which is how they recover. With no Smash attacks, the ARMS are instead charged as the fighter shields, which lasts longer the longer they hold the shield and disappears after they throw a punch, after a short time, or when they take a hit. The character has a shield special like Inkling where pressing B while shielding allows them to swap ARMS for different types. No traditional dashing either, double tapping forward or back instead does a short burst of speed in that direction, and it can also be done in the air. The fighter also builds a meter over time similar to Mac and Joker, and when full allows them to do a Rush attack similar to ARMS.

It sounds completely insane, but I also really can't see Sakurai implementing an ARMS character faithfully without going all the way like this if he's truly trying to represent it like he claims, and the whole "entirely original mechanics" thing makes me think he really is. This feels like the kind of absolutely crazy idea he would try with a new character.

 

[Wunderwaft]

I don't think it's remotely as far as you're suggesting.

Those tons of fanpicks still exist and are not playable yet. Or even have a Mii costume as a consolation prize.

More new fanpicks obviously exist too, but it's very easy to take both into account and please both sides. There's literally 5 left, and I highly doubt we won't get anyone with fan demand on the ballot. To be honest, Master Chief and Dante are massively strong character requests due to their legacy. They likely got a chunk of votes on the ballot regardless of the Nintendo-only fanrule, which isn't really a casual fanbase thing, but for hardcore fans. 2B would be the only one that probably didn't get a lot of votes of the three. So they're not all the best plausible examples here. Even then, the idea there's not a lot of relevant options among the ballot today is silly. Of course there are. There's thousands of notable characters that are very active to this day among ballot stuff to go on.

They have enough to go on for multiple games, and it'll still be major sellers. The ballot was never going to be the only kind of picks, but it clearly influenced a lot of Ultimate, including the first part of DLC. The chances of it influencing the second pass is pretty high, really. Not to mention how many Mii costumes can easily be influenced by the ballot. Though it's hard to say which is which, but that's one of many ways to use it. It's not just for playable characters, but for Smash in general. That was also part of the point of the ballot, to help them along. But a reminder is that they pretty much said that it's meant to be used for multiple Smash games. It'd be easy to argue they didn't continue to use it for DLC, but they clearly did. Nothing makes Fighter's Pass 2 anywhere near different either. Challenger Pack 6 isn't a fanpick, sure(to a degree. There's clearly been a huge question mark on why ARMS wasn't playable in base for a while. But it's not technically a fanpick, but easily had some demand to fix what was considered an error in the base roster).

No way in hell did Master Chief and Dante get any good number of votes in the ballot back in 2015, if they ever did get votes it was probably a very small number that can be neglected. Their popularity only really kicked off in Ultimate. Same thing with Doomguy, these characters weren't as popular as they are now ever since the third party barrier was loosened up a bit. If you claim this is a bad example and these characters had major support back in 2015 then by all means provide proof for your statement.

I also did not say the picks in the ballot were not relevant, I was saying the ballot ITSELF was irrelevant and characters now would have to get on their own merits rather than a popularity poll that relied on a significantly smaller playerbase from five years ago. I never said fanpicks won't get in as DLC, I was saying the ballot won't play a role anymore for these characters to get in. If you believe the ballot will play a big role for future DLC picks then by all means explain to me how the ballot got in Joker, Terry, and Byleth. That's the majority of the DLC packs, I'll give Hero the benefit of the doubt because I can see Japanese Smash fans voting for Dragon Quest back then. But no way in hell did the three I mentioned had the ballot impact their inclusions whatsoever.

Like seriously, the ballot is old, had a less voter base than the current Smash fanbase, and didn't even affect the majority of the DLC decisions. I'm seeing more evidence that the ballot won't affect anything in the future if at all.

 

[osby]

Well, let's think about it. The actual gameplay of ARMS is pretty simple. You have two ARMS you can attack with and angle with a variety of different types, you can jump and dash around, you can grab with both arms, and you can block, which charges up your arms to do more damage and other effects, and you build up a charge meter over time that lets you activate a rush and do a flurry of attacks. Really, that's about it. How do you make a traditional Smash moveset out of this? You could just have the standard attacks be basic punches and swipes, but how do you incorporate things like different ARM types? It's one of the core mechanics of the game, Sakurai isn't just going to gloss over that. And what do you do with all the special moves, how do they recover? Having the ARMS just change type to suit whatever move he wants them to be doesn't fit ARMS well and would probably look janky. And how do you incorporate the fact that both ARMS are meant to be independent? Or things like charging the arms while shielding, or that they do a ranged grab with both ARMS? What about stuff like ARMS being disabled? And it is a fighting game character like Ryu/Terry, so is he also going to make them face the opponent at all times? Not to mention the giant range?

I can see different ARMS types just having their effects appear in certain moves, rather than outright changing every move that uses ARMS.

Think about how Joker sticks with his initial Persona (with some skills that he wouldn't normally learn) instead of making use of his Wild Card ability.

 

[pinshadow]

I can see different ARMS types just having their effects appear in certain moves, rather than outright changing every move that uses ARMS.

Think about how Joker sticks with his initial Persona (with some skills that he wouldn't normally learn) instead of making use of his Wild Card ability.

I mentioned that, I get the idea but I feel like it doesn't fit with ARMS that well, at that point he's making up a bunch of different moves for the neutrals and specials given that the ARMS characters really don't fight at close range or have a variety of attacks, and while that works for a moveset the fact that Sakurai's outright claimed he's trying to stick close to the spirit of ARMS and that it's going to be a super unique character makes me feel like he isn't going that direction.

 

[3BitSaurus]

If you believe the ballot will play a big role for future DLC picks then by all means explain to me how the ballot got in Joker, Terry, and Byleth. That's the majority of the DLC packs, I'll give Hero the benefit of the doubt because I can see Japanese Smash fans voting for Dragon Quest back then. But no way in hell did the three I mentioned had the ballot impact their inclusions whatsoever.

...and yet, that still leaves two out of five picks to be impacted by the ballot. Or a third, if you count PP as a non-Ballot pick. It's not the majority of them, but it's not an amount we can neglect either.

Besides, the "change in taste" you exemplified is largely limited to third parties - and even then, I'd argue most of the third party requests we see these days were already present during the ballot, like Sora, Bomberman and Crash.

I don't think anyone here is saying that season 2 will have most of its packs come from the ballot (or that they should), but it would make no sense for Nintendo to do away with it altogether - for Ultimate or the future. Especially when it comes to first parties that aren't playable yet.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Spoiler: Big post, though read the final words later

No way in hell did Master Chief and Dante get any good number of votes in the ballot back in 2015, if they ever did get votes it was probably a very small number that can be neglected. Their popularity only really kicked off in Ultimate. Same thing with Doomguy, these characters weren't as popular as they are now ever since the third party barrier was loosened up a bit. If you claim this is a bad example and these characters had major support back in 2015 then by all means provide proof for your statement.

Again, you're solely talking about the hardcore fanbase. These are massively popular gaming icons. That's literally all that's needed to get a good chunk of votes. Keep in mind a good chunk of votes doesn't even have to be 1% of the votes either. There's thousands of characters out there among the votes, and well over a million votes. You're only seeing the visible stuff, but the visible stuff is not the entire story. It's far more realistic that two major gaming icons got its share of votes because, get this, people don't care if they appeared on a Nintendo console or not. It's actually far more common to see people vote for who they want, regardless of these things. Ridley is a perfect example of someone who was blatantly in a bad position, and this was after it was well known his role pretty made him unlikely to be DLC. Coupled with most people not realizing this wasn't for future games, and they still voted for him regardless of the "odds". This applies to tons of characters, as the casual fanbase does not care about that kind of stuff, and they're still important ballot voters. You're not going to often see these people on areas like Smashboards, the home of the hardcore fanbase.

I also did not say the picks in the ballot were not relevant, I was saying the ballot ITSELF was irrelevant and characters now would have to get on their own merits rather than a popularity poll that relied on a significantly smaller playerbase from five years ago. I never said fanpicks won't get in as DLC, I was saying the ballot won't play a role anymore for these characters to get in. If you believe the ballot will play a big role for future DLC picks then by all means explain to me how the ballot got in Joker, Terry, and Byleth. That's the majority of the DLC packs, I'll give Hero the benefit of the doubt because I can see Japanese Smash fans voting for Dragon Quest back then. But no way in hell did the three I mentioned had the ballot impact their inclusions whatsoever.

It wasn't a small playerbase either. It's still pretty huge for the ballot itself. Terry is very easy to explain. SNK alone is one of the classic gaming companies with tons of compelling characters. Fatal Fury along with King of Fighters is a very popular gaming series. Then you have Latin America, a massive fanbase all thing considered. That's not a "small amount of votes" that you can get from Latin America. You don't need to be a top vote to have a "good chunk of votes" either. I'm not sure where you're getting that idea. Again, we have over a million votes. Even 100 votes is pretty notable to begin with, because that's still a lot of people. Yes, it's not even 1%, of course. But a small droplet does matter. We can tell that by seeing how big Golden Sun's representation came up, and to be frank, it's not the biggest fanbase in the world either. It's no Dragon Quest(which is way bigger since it's most of Japan. There's of course stragglers who don't care about the series). Though that's also barely... 1/4 of the world that wanted Hero? 250,000ish if we go by 1 million being the base total votes?

I never said Byleth or Joker to begin with. That's obviously impossible the ballot influenced them. They didn't exist yet.

I think you're missing a key point; the ballot is intended to be used for future games. It doesn't matter how irrelevant it is as long as there's characters of note to add because of votes. In fact, there's a rumor(as it's not proven and was said by a leaker) that Nintendo wasn't even aware of Isaac's fan demand. Sakurai obviously was, yes. Thanks to the ballot. A lot has changed and they're well aware of what's going on now since old and new players are important.

Like seriously, the ballot is old, had a less voter base than the current Smash fanbase, and didn't even affect the majority of the DLC decisions. I'm seeing more evidence that the ballot won't affect anything in the future if at all.

The idea they used it to begin with already blatantly says they weren't done with it at base(assuming Banjo was from the ballot, which is a fair assumption). And well, no, we can only say it didn't affect half at best. PP, Byleth, and Joker. That's all that's really properly claimable as an educated guess. We don't actually know if it's the literal reason they went for Banjo, it's just a reasonable assumption. But as I noted, Terry and Hero are both very popular characters. Hero especially, and just a "general" one too, not any particular one has a ton of votes from what we can find. Slime too, so DQ in itself appears to have been highly voted. As Sakurai wasn't picking it, Nintendo going for SNK in general didn't seem to really have a business point much to it either. It looked a lot more like a fan demand factor at that point. So it looks far more like it was half the current DLC or most of the Fighter's Pass 1, depending the way you want to look at it. Let's say PP was actually base. That further leads to the ballot influencing most of the DLC too. Likewise, Hero was planned for base, and as I said, we knew of its demand. This is possibly why he tried to get the characters in base too. Massive Japanese demand.

It being old is hardly a dealbreaker either. It still has a crapload of useful suggestions that stand the test of time. There's also no reason to believe they won't continue using it. Especially when there's no new ballot out(and little reason to believe they intend to make one) with their own statement it'll be used for future games. It's pretty clear being "outdated" wasn't a factor even to this day.

Overall, I'm seeing it having a massive influence on Smash Ultimate as a whole, not just base mostly.

That said, however, I think it's clear that we can't convince each other, regardless of this large post. I do believe the ballot is going to continue to be used, as I see it clearly influencing the first Fighter's Pass. Even if it's at most 2 characters, that's still a very big deal and there's tons of characters that are easy to use. I also see that Nintendo has noted its plan to use it for future games in general, which means that it being "outdated" doesn't actually matter at this point. Maybe they'll hold another ballot, but until then, the chances of it being used are extremely high.

 

[Perkilator]

I can see different ARMS types just having their effects appear in certain moves, rather than outright changing every move that uses ARMS.

Think about how Joker sticks with his initial Persona (with some skills that he wouldn't normally learn) instead of making use of his Wild Card ability.

My movesets for Spring Man and Min-Min utilize their base ARMS in special moves and Smash moves:

Spoiler: Spring Man

Intro: Spring Man falls down and lands on his arms, bouncing into his fighting stance.

Stance/Idle 1: His idle animation from ARMS.

Idle 2: Spring Man briefly looks towards the camera and smiles.

Idle 3: Spring Man flexes, mimicking one of his renders from ARMS.


Notable Palette Swaps:
-Default (Blue)
-Left input colors (Brown)
-Right input colors (Red)
-Down inputs colors (Cyan)
-Springtron (Black)
-Dr. Coyle (Green)
-Max Brass (Gold)
-Hedlok (White)

Walk: His walk from ARMS.

Jog: His jog from ARMS.

Dash: His dash from ARMS.

Damage: His damage animation from ARMS.

Jump: His jump from ARMS.

Crouch: Spring Man ducks behind his Toasters.


Weapon of Choice: ARMS, a special type of melee weapon designed for ARMS fights.


Jab: Spring Man uppercuts twice (8%, OK knockback), flurries attacks with his Toaster ARMS (1-3% each, small knockback), and then finishes with a punch with a fire effect (7%, OK knockback)
Forward+A: Spring Man reaches out one of his ARMS at a moderate distance (8%, OK knockback)
Down+A: Spring Man punches with one of his ARMS.
Up+A: Spring Man uppercuts above himself in an arc with his left ARM (9%, OK knockback)

Air+A: Spring Man spins around, letting his ARMS flail (11%, OK knockback)
Air Forward+A: Spring Man extends his left ARM (9%, OK knockback)
Air Back + A: Spring Man extends his right ARM (9%, OK knockback)
Air Up+A: Spring Man arc uppercuts with his right ARM (12%, OK knockback)
Air Down+A: Spring Man punches diagonally downward (14% with a meteor effect, OK knockback); this mimics one of his renders from ARMS.

Dash Attack: Spring Man punches with a brief shockwave around one of his ARMS (9%, OK knockback)
Edge Attack: Spring Man semi-propels himself back onto the stage (8%, OK knockback)
Get-Up Attack: Spring Man spins around with his ARMS (13%, OK knockback)

Smash Moves
Forward+A: Spring Man punches with a multi-hit Boomerang, similarly to his Assist Trophy counterpart (17%, OK knockback)
Up+A: Spring Man punches both his Toasters together, created a burst of flames (18%, medium knockback)
Down+A: Spring Man takes his Tribolts and creates a huge shockwave of electricity that slightly shocks himself (21%, medium knockback)

Grab: A shortened version of the normal ARMS grab.
Pummel: Spring Man uses the Toaster ARMS to squeeze his target (2%)
Forwards+Throw: Byte & Barq’s throw (14%, medium knockback)
Down+Throw: Spring Man throws the target on the ground like he’s shooting a basketball into the hoop, burying the target (13%)
Back+Throw: An altered version of Ribbon Girl’s throw (14%, OK knockback)
Up+Throw: Spring Man’s throw (17%, OK knockback)

Special Moves

B : Tribolt; Spring Man fires three orange tip missiles out of one of his Tribolt ARMS (9%, small knockback). Hold B to fire the missiles out of both ARMS, which can stun a target (19%, OK knockback)
B + Forwards : Boomerang; Spring Man lets out one of his Boomerang ARMS. It goes an okay distance, and then returns to him (4%-7% per hit, small knockback). The angle can be adjusted as it goes out and returns.
B + Up : Slingshot Grab; Spring Man fully extends his ARMS towards the sky. When he grabs a ledge, he propels himself straight upwards. When he grabs a target, he propels himself towards them and bounces them away (15%, OK knockback), stopping him midair (1.3% recoil)
B + Down : Shockwave; Spring Man briefly summons a shockwave around himself that pushes back fighters (6%, small knockback) and nullifies any attack that gets close to him.

Final Smash: Rush Flurry; Spring Man flurries targets in a HUGE horizontal area (39%) and then deals a finishing blow that can hit multiple targets (20% each hit, devastating knockback)

Gimmick: When Spring Man hits 100% damage (or the last ¼ of his HP in Stamina Battles), he will glow red, which not only boosts his attack power by x1.3, but also slightly alters his specials:

-Tribolt can now Fire an endless amount of missiles, albeit only 4 at a time (6% each, OK knockback)
-Boomerang now envelops itself in winds, but with slightly less range and no ability to change its angle (24%, medium knockback)
-Slingshot Grab now goes the furthest Spring Man’s ARMS can go, as well as reduces the recoil taken when grabbing a target (.6% recoil; 19%, medium knockback)
-Shockwave now has a bigger radius (14%, OK knockback) and reflects projectiles, but needs a 3-second cool down.

Spoiler: Min-Min

Intro: Min Min jumps down from the sky and gets into her fighting stance.

Stance/Idle 1: Her fighting stance from ARMS.

Idle 2: Min Min’s Dragon Arms breathe fire for a second.


Notable Palette Swaps: Yellow Min Min, White Min Min, Pink Min Min, Ninjara, Helix, Kid Cobra, Max Brass


Walk: Her walking animation from ARMS.

Jog: Her jogging animation from ARMS.

Dash: Her dashing animation from ARMS.

Damage: Her damage animation from ARMS.

Jump: Her jumping animation from ARMS.

Crouch: Min Min crouches with her ARMS held slightly above her.


Weapon of Choice: ARMS, a special type of Melee weapon designed for ARMS fights.


Jab: Min Min does a short-reaching jab with either arm (7%, small knockback)
Forward+A: Min Min briefly summons a Ramram using the ARM closer to the background (9%, OK knockback)
Down+A: Min Min raises the foot closer to the background and kicks downward (8%, OK knockback)
Up+A: Min Min kicks upwards using the foot closer to the foreground (8%, small knockback) while using her ARMS for a brief handstand.

Air+A: Min Min kicks in a circle with the foot closer to the background (7%, small knockback)
Air Forward+A: Min Min kicks forward with the foot closer to the background (7%, small knockback)
Air Back + A: Min Min kicks backwards with the foot closer to the foreground (8%, small knockback)
Air Up+A: Min Min kicks upwards (8%, small knockback)
Air Down+A: Min Min kicks downwards (11%, OK knockback)

Dash Attack: Min Min does a jumping kick with the foot closer to the background (9%, OK knockback)
Edge Attack: Min Min stretches back and springs upwards with a arc kick (10%, OK knockback)
Get-Up Attack: Min Min turns her ARMS into Ramrams and spins around (12%, OK knockback)


Smash Moves
Forward+A: Min Min fully extends the Dragon ARM closer to the foreground (17%, OK knockback); basically, the Spring Man Assist Trophy.
Up+A: Min Min strikes upwards with charged Ramrams that cut through the air like wind (19%, medium knockback)
Down+A: Min Min slams her Megawatt ARMS on both sides of the ground (26%, medium knockback)

Grab: Her grab from ARMS.
Pummel: Min Min kicks the opponent (2%)
Forwards+Throw: The second half of her throw from ARMS (13%, OK knockback)
Down+Throw: The first part of her throw from ARMS (11%, OK knockback)
Back+Throw: Min Min jumps above the opponent still grabbing them, and then kicks them from behind (14%, OK knockback); based on Helix’s throw from ARMS.
Up+Throw: Kid Cobra’s throw from ARMS (16%, OK knockback)

Special Moves

B : Dragon Beam; Min Min sends one of her Dragon ARMS forward, and the one she sends out shoots a fiery beam that can be moved up or down (15%, OK knockback). When charged, the beam is bigger and the Dragon can’t be aimed (25%, medium knockback)
B + Forwards : Ramram Slice-n-Dice; Min Min sends a Ramram forward and sliced by spinning backwards (13%, OK knockback). When charged, it spins 5 times in succession (20%, OK knockback)
B + Up : Megawatt Propel; Min Min punches diagonally downward from herself to propel forward (16%, medium knockback). When charged, Min Min sends out a bigger Megawatt to propel herself further (24%, medium knockback)
B + Down : Dragon Charge; Min Min stores energy in her to power up a special move. When B + Down is pressed again, Min Min instead shoots an orb that uses the energy for Dragon Beam. This beam homes in on players, but takes awhile to make contact (16%, OK knockback)

Final Smash: Dragon Rush; Min Min is surged with energy. She punches outward with a Megawatt (18%), creates a flurry of Ramrams (13%) and then shoots two powerful beams out of both her Dragon ARMS (32%; 63% total, devastating knockback)

Gimmick: Every now and then, the arm closest to the foreground will be turned into dragon scales. Her attack power is then permanently raised by 1.1x until she is K.O.’d. In addition, her aerials reduce damage taken from attacks.

 

[SpectreJordan]

And now, a question for all of you. What is a game(s) that you are not expecting to get a character from, but would be happy to see something like a boss fight, spirit event, assist trophy, Mii costume, or something else to represent it. .

Premium Mii Costumes: Hollow Knight, Celeste, Shovel Knight, Viewtiful Joe

Stages: Call of Duty, Tetris, World of Warcraft, Starcraft

Call of Duty & Tetris are gaming juggernauts, but I don’t think they have any character potential for Smash,so I think stages would be perfect. I think it’d be especially cool if the COD map was a multiplayer map (Id pick Crash) & a “match” would be “played” in the background, that occasionally effects the Smash match by hitting the Smash charactwrs with killstreaks.

I haven’t played WOW or SC but they’re such huge games, that I think some representation in Smash would be cool.

*I’m a big COD fan, so I know there’s several great named characters in the campaign & Zombies. But they wouldn’t fit Smash.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Besides that, it specifically said it could be used for future Smash games. That's with an S. There's little reason to believe they're using it once and that's it.

It's interesting to me how little this was mentioned, even during the ballot. To the point that even when I quote it, it feels like a dream.
Also odd to think it as 2015, and how long ago that was. Even 2016 was the year of Dr Strange and political turmoil in the USA, which will not cease.

Hmm.. maybe my last few years weren't eventful enough.

Oh no, not this black hole.

 

[Perkilator]

What is a game(s) that you are not expecting to get a character from, but would be happy to see something like a boss fight, spirit event, assist trophy, Mii costume, or something else to represent it.

Mii Costume: FF7R
Spirit Event: Viewtiful Joe
Assist Trophy: Bubsy, House of the Dead (Magician Type-0)
Boss: House of the Dead (Magician Type-0)
Stage: House of the Dead (Curien Mansion)

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Oh I didn’t see the other parts of DanganZilla5’s “no character but other content” post

uhhh

Spirit Event: Hyperdimension Neptunia, Azure Striker Gunvolt, Tokyo Mirage Sessions (we only have Tsubasa. Where’s Itsuki, Eleonora and the others?), Tekken, some Falcom property, Star Ocean First Departure R, AND UNDERTALE ALREADY FFS CUPHEAD HAS BOTH A COSTUME AND SPIRIT EVENT
Assist Trophy: Viewtiful Joe

 

[SNEKeater]

I gotta disagree. Sakurai has clearly had Geno on his mind recently. He's mentioned him by name several times and has expressed interest in the character. Geno even got a Mii Costume in Smash 4 that is eerily missing (similar to the Bandai-Namco Mii Costumes possibly hinting at Heihachi a Bandai-Namco DLC character) in the current version of Ultimate.
Remember the last time Sakurai mentioned a character he knew was a big fan request? Ridley.

I'd like to say that, yeah, Sakurai said that he's interested in the character, but IIRC the last time he talket about Geno was when Geno's Mii Costume happened. But the thing is, maybe Sakurai changed his mind about the character. Just like he changed his stance about Ridley, he could have done the same with Geno. It's strange for someone to think exactly the same through the years, our opinions are constantly changing.

Not saying this to undermine Geno or anything, it's just that the "Sakurai said he wanted to add Geno" it's always mentioned, which is normal, but people never ask themselves if Sakurai still thinks the same nowadays. Maybe he doesn't even care about the character at this point. Maybe he cares about Geno, but has moved on, maybe he saw that it would be impossible to get Geno from Square and decided to forget about him... we don't really know.

 

[ZelDan]

I don't think the relevancy of the ballot is a black or white issue myself.

Sure, the ballot might not have as much sway as it did before Ultimate, but I don't think that means that it has absolutely no sway at all.

 

[pinshadow]

I'd like to say that, yeah, Sakurai said that he's interested in the character, but IIRC the last time he talket about Geno was when Geno's Mii Costume happened. But the thing is, maybe Sakurai changed his mind about the character. Just like he changed his stance about Ridley, he could have done the same with Geno. It's strange for someone to think exactly the same through the years, our opinions are constantly changing.

Not saying this to undermine Geno or anything, it's just that the "Sakurai said he wanted to add Geno" it's always mentioned, which is normal, but people never ask themselves if Sakurai still thinks the same nowadays. Maybe he doesn't even care about the character at this point. Maybe he cares about Geno, but has moved on, maybe he saw that it would be impossible to get Geno from Square and decided to forget about him... we don't really know.

I mean, Geno isn't so much as changing his mind as going through with the idea. If he cared about the character as far back as Brawl and enough to get a Spirit of him in Ultimate, I don't see him suddenly deciding he doesn't care about the character.

 

[BernkastelWitch]

I do imagine another reason why Geno hasn't yet been added into Smash yet is because there's a ton of possible Square Enix choices beyond Geno, too. We already got Cloud for the Square side and Hero for the Enix side. And there's loads of potential Square Enix characters beyond just Geno. Crono, 2B, Neku, maybe a different Final Fantasy character if Hell freezes over, etc etc.

So Geno has a lot of competition and the question is if his demand is strong enough to outweigh most of these characters too if we were to get a third Square Enix character.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Another major thing to point out with regards to the ballot is that we've also got several million new people playing Smash. The combined numbers of the 3DS and Wii U titles sales wise was somewhere around 14 million, and we know for a fact that a number of people owned both versions, so the total number of people who were invested in Smash during the 2015 ballot is lower than 14 million. Compared to the currently 18 million Smash Ultimate has sold, there's 4 million new players, all likely with their own most wanted characters that probably had nothing to do with the initial ballot. Also, consider the fact that the ballot end up playing a much larger role in Smash's direction than I think most people even considered at the time, and I don't think it's unreasonable for us to expect a greater turnout on a secondary ballot if it was ever conducted.

What I'm getting at is that Nintendo's official ballot, while a source of information that they can use when considering stuff in the future, is also more outdated than we may think and not nearly as representative of where Ultimate is today with its fan base. Considering just how many major ballot choices and fan favorites got into Ultimate, how do you reassess what people really think as second, third, or even maybe tenth options after their requests got in. The ballot isn't some ranked choice system, it's an empty write-in field that gives volunteers unlimited capacity to vote for who they want, though only for a single character (at least from a single IP officially, I'd imagine there's a lower number of true responses to the ballot as people went insane about finding ways to put in extra votes lol).

The best example I have for this is looking at the rather unique trajectory of fans with King K. Rool. In Smash 4, King K. Rool and Dixie Kong were often in competition for "third DK character" spot and competed seemingly for popularity. When King K. Rool got in, however, it seemed like a large number of his supporters instead opted to support Banjo & Kazooie instead of Dixie Kong despite the seemingly natural interest Rool fans would have for her as well, and then once Banjo & Kazooie went in, I've seen a ton of those older Rare fans actually flock to someone like Crash as well. Especially with how Ultimate has continued to invite additional realities to the conversation and with Nintendo's ever-blooming relationship with third parties, the "most requested" game has really changed in a lot of ways since 2014 and what people were talking about. I mean, look at how many people flocked to Banjo & Kazooie as soon as it looked like he had an actual shot. The Smash player base isn't a monolith that remains consistent, if anything they're fickle and prone to changes depending on the current course of events. People change their minds on characters in positive and negative ways all the time, and certain characters that might have appeared to be cultural zeitgeists in 2015 have lost their shine while new characters and franchises have appeared to take people's interest in new ways.

I don't say this to say the ballot is invalidated wholly at this point, just that the ballot has served much of its purpose and that it's probably outdated in a lot of respects as any given ballot is intended to be a snapshot of that time and not necessarily a reflection of what people will think years from then.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Yes, there is a huge change in requested characters currently compared to 2015, a lot of wanted characters got in which generated a powergap that was filled with other characters. People who wanted Ridley and K. Rool for example got their characters but it doesn't mean they also wanted Geno or Isaac, different fanbases exist and these fanbases probably have other characters they want. If they voted again they probably will vote for different characters which would result in much different results.

Dante, 2B, and Master Chief are characters that are newly highly requested in the Smash fandom and they weren't that popular during the ballot era, and in the case of 2B she didn't even exist when the ballot was a thing. Hell, Joker wasn't a thing when the ballot existed and he got in and built a stronger connection between Nintendo and Atlus. SNK was still dead when the ballot was a thing and it rebuilt itself back in the years after the ballot and it got in Smash.

The gaming landscape in 2015 compared to 2020 is far, FAR, too different to actually be used as reference material for future character picks. So many companies have changed, so many new franchises were created, and so many partnerships were made since then. Times have changed and the fanbase has changed. So many people were introduced to Smash through Ultimate as their first game, which is clear when Ultimate is the best selling Smash game of all time.


My point was in regards to the ballot having a major effect for DLC. We know that the ballot played a big role for Ultimate's base game and I never said anything opposite to this fact. When looking at the picks made for the first fighters pass, can you honestly say Joker or Byleth were ballot picks when they didn't even exist at that point in time?

It's true that there are new games to consider--- but I think that's all there is to consider from what you've said.
The point was brought up that the goal of Smash is to cater to different audiences- which would moot the point of 'people who voted for K Rool and Ridley have other requests now.' It would be the same audience.

I cannot imagine another poll- the first was done after '64 and only in Japan. It took 16 years for the next poll.
The poll took a LOT of resources for Nintendo- I promise you that reading through those responses by hand (because it was a field blank answer, not a checklist) took a lot of time. I would rather those resources be devoted to developing even one more character.

Let's also not forget- the poll is not a vote. It is not a list of predetermined options, nor is any individual forced to only enter one ballot.

The landscape has not changed all that much in five years. Everything from the poll stands, just with new data to support it. There are just too many factors to involve in figuring this all out- because ultimately, all of your examples are just about new games that it sounds like you, personally, want to see reflected.

We have gotten a lot of new content. The primary buyers of Smash are people with money. Legacy content appeals more to that group of people.
Especially since Smash is used to sell the Switch. Theres not a fiscally valid reason to have another poll. #marketing101

I do imagine another reason why Geno hasn't yet been added into Smash yet is because there's a ton of possible Square Enix choices beyond Geno, too. We already got Cloud for the Square side and Hero for the Enix side. And there's loads of potential Square Enix characters beyond just Geno. Crono, 2B, Neku, maybe a different Final Fantasy character if Hell freezes over, etc etc.

So Geno has a lot of competition and the question is if his demand is strong enough to outweigh most of these characters too if we were to get a third Square Enix character.

Geno is a great Mii costume. Square Enix would next go for Lara Croft and Sora for impact.
That's my 2cents.

 

[Garteam]

I think the ballot will get a little more life out of it, but after that it's going the way of the Dodo.

It's true that the ballot is becoming increasingly outdated, but its still Sakurai's and the Smash team's best look into the wants of the community, so I don't think they're going to completely abandon it for that reason. Instead, the ballot's just running out of big, popular characters that did well. Let's look at characters we know we influenced by fan requests in both Ultimate's base game and DLC through Sakurai's statements:
Base game: General requests for vets to come back (influenced everyone is here and, by extension,, , ,,, , , and 's return), , A Castlevania character (later became and ), , ,
Fighter's Pass #1: A Dragon Quest character (later became , , , and ),
Popularity may've also have influenced the addition of , , and , given their high degree of fan demand from the ballot era, but I couldn't find any quotes confirming popularity was a factor for these three.

That's a lot of characters to get out of the ballot results, with 14 of the 22 characters present in Ultimate but not in Smash for Wii U/3DS getting in partially thanks to the ballot. Sakurai is simply running out of clear winners from the ballot to put into Ultimate, given the quantity we've gotten already! If you look at a variety of fan ballot results from the era, you'll see that most of the reoccurring characters (the vets, K. Rool, Ridley, Inkling, Banjo, etc.) are already in Ultimate. So, while I don't think the ballot is completely useless, it can the guiding star for character choices like it was in Ultimate's base game.

Instead, the ballot will largely play the same role it did in the first fighter's pass, we'll get one or two characters from it and the rest will be non-ballot choices. My guess is it'll be some combination of the following:

• Geno
• Bandana Waddle Dee
• Issac
• A Third Party series that, like Castlevania and Dragon Quest, had a high number of votes spread between a variety of characters (I could see Tales, Tekken, or Resident Evil in this category).

 

[Cosmic77]

I do imagine another reason why Geno hasn't yet been added into Smash yet is because there's a ton of possible Square Enix choices beyond Geno, too. We already got Cloud for the Square side and Hero for the Enix side. And there's loads of potential Square Enix characters beyond just Geno. Crono, 2B, Neku, maybe a different Final Fantasy character if Hell freezes over, etc etc.

So Geno has a lot of competition and the question is if his demand is strong enough to outweigh most of these characters too if we were to get a third Square Enix character.

I feel like this could go on indefinitely though. When Cloud got in the response was, "Duh, of course he'd add Cloud before Geno." When Hero got in, the response was, "Duh, of course he'd add Hero before Geno."

All I know is that during Smash 4, Sakurai said something along the lines of, "Geno is always a popular request," indicating he was aware of his popularity in other Smash games too. Two SE characters have gotten in since then, meaning Sakurai knew of Geno's popularity and still passed him up. Twice.

 

[pupNapoleon]

As far as the ballot...

We saw the results of the 2000 Japanese ballot resonate until Smash 4.

I think we will see the results of the ballot for a long time.

I feel like this could go on indefinitely though. When Cloud got in the response was, "Duh, of course he'd add Cloud before Geno." When Hero got in, the response was, "Duh, of course he'd add Hero before Geno."

All I know is that during Smash 4, Sakurai said something along the lines of, "Geno is always a popular request," indicating he was aware of his popularity in other Smash games too. Two SE characters have gotten in since then, meaning Sakurai knew of Geno's popularity and still passed him up. Twice.

Yep!

 

[SmashChu]

Waluigi was popular long before 2015, what are you on about?

And I'll Geno lacking exposure due to how long ago his game came out, but Sans? Lacks exposure? Huh?

1)Waluigi's popularity exploded long after the Ballot was done. Really wasn't until 2018 when he crushed the Reddit poll did people realize he was popular. There wasn't a big push for him in the ballot
2)Not how I mentioned the lack of exposure in regards to Geno, not Sans. I'm saying they did something similar with Sans by adding Geno as a costume.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

1)Waluigi's popularity exploded long after the Ballot was done. Really wasn't until 2018 when he crushed the Reddit poll did people realize he was popular. There wasn't a big push for him in the ballot
2)Not how I mentioned the lack of exposure in regards to Geno, not Sans. I'm saying they did something similar with Sans by adding Geno as a costume.

Waluigi's always been popular, it's just that Waluigi fans were pissed at getting shafted again for Smash. If Waluigi only recently became popular, explain how people were ****ing livid over Mario Kart 7 excluding him and how people have wanted Waluigi in Warioware despite how that'll never happen or his own game. This is like saying Castlevania only became popular on the ballot because of the Netflix show's existence being confirmed

 

[Deleted member]

I'll always say this regarding Waluigi:

Make a sequel for Wario World and make Waluigi the player 2 character.

That game will sell like pancakes if they do that.

 

[Opossum]

Waluigi was popular loooooong before 2018. If you didn't see it, you simply weren't paying attention.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

A little late but Sakurai’s POTD last night

pic.twitter.com/LTnSy8GiwK

— 桜井 政博 / Masahiro Sakurai (@Sora_Sakurai) May 8, 2020

Since these were during development I imagine this was when VR was being developed. I wonder how many people actually USE that feature now lmao

 

[CaptainAmerica]

I dunno if they'll still use the ballot, and if they do it won't be much. They've got the info, but we don't even know about it. The only info they released was that Bayonetta won 'amongst realizable characters' (which we have evidence means 'amongst characters who are Bayonetta'), the vets were requested, and K.Rool surprised everyone at Nintendo by being so highly requested. All we can do is guess who was popular, but that's another example of us living in the Smash bubble again. There are very few people outside of Smash fans and speculators who even remember Geno, Isaac, etc.

I'll also offer that Cloud changed the speculation scene. Before that, a lot of people were focusing on the unwritten "must have strong Nintendo history" rule. Cloud blew that out of the water... after the ballot ended. I'm sure that if they did the ballot now, there would probably be a lot more names thrown around. Not to mention that some games didn't explode in popularity until afterwards anyway. Doom was in a holding pattern until Doom 2016 made everyone (in the West) go nuts over him, so there was likely little support there.

And of course, there's evidence that the DLC isn't all coming from the ballot anyway. Banjo probably did, but I highly doubt the ballot had anything to do with Joker...considering he didn't even exist then. Ditto also our ARMS character.

So yeah, we'll probably get one maybe two of the DLC characters to be 'a ballot pick.' Maybe a third will be a new hot request, but I'm not thinking we'll get more than half of the new pack to be the names on everyone's minds.

 

[DarthEnderX]

A lot of the most requested ones on there like K.Rool, Simon, Ridley, Wolf, Snake, Bayonetta, Banjo etc are all in the game already.

The ballot was 5 years ago and a lot has changed since

But in the absence of a new ballot, it remains their best source of information.

And as all the likely top pick end up getting added, everything that wasn't just ends up moving up the list.

Though a new poll would be nice as the gaming landscape and smash rosters have changed over time.

The biggest change being that every who got who they voted for last time(which is a lot) is now free to vote for someone else.

Make a sequel for Wario World and make Waluigi the player 2 character.

**** that. It's time for Waluigi's Wrecking Crew!

Waluigi was popular loooooong before 2018. If you didn't see it, you simply weren't paying attention.

Waluigi existed. He was not popular.

 

[PsySmasher]

Honestly with the Ballot, it’s becoming less prevalent the further we get into DLC

If my memory serves me correctly, base roster we had: all newcomer confirmed ballot picks ( too but that one was kinda obvious from the get go)

For DLC the ballot is kinda... absent
didn’t even exist at the time
we don’t really know how popular they were at the time, so idk if they were a ballot pick
is pretty much the only character so far we can assume is a ballot pick, but even then idk if that was ever confirmed
SNK was kinda dead around that point so idk how requested he was around there
also didn’t exist
ARMS character didn’t exist

The ballot’s representation during Ultimate’s DLC is kinda... nonexistent outside of probably Banjo

So yeah, while the possibility of more Smash 4 ballot picks is there, it’s prime purpose seems to have been for Ultimate base roster and it seems to becoming less relevant the further into Ultimate we go.

 

[andree123]

Scout confirmed for smash ultimate

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Scout confirmed for smash ultimate

A little late there, and I think it’s just a coincidence

 

[Garteam]

Honestly with the Ballot, it’s becoming less prevalent the further we get into DLC

If my memory serves me correctly, base roster we had: all newcomer confirmed ballot picks ( too but that one was kinda obvious from the get go)

For DLC the ballot is kinda... absent
didn’t even exist at the time
we don’t really know how popular they were at the time, so idk if they were a ballot pick
is pretty much the only character so far we can assume is a ballot pick, but even then idk if that was ever confirmed
SNK was kinda dead around that point so idk how requested he was around there
also didn’t exist
ARMS character didn’t exist

The ballot’s representation during Ultimate’s DLC is kinda... nonexistent outside of probably Banjo

So yeah, while the possibility of more Smash 4 ballot picks is there, it’s prime purpose seems to have been for Ultimate base roster and it seems to becoming less relevant the further into Ultimate we go.

According to an interview with Sakurai for the release of Dragon Quest XIS, a Dragon Quest character has been requested for a long time. As such, Dragon Quest probably did well on the ballot, being a Castlevania situation where a high number of votes for the series were spread across multiple characters.

 

[SNEKeater]

I mean, Geno isn't so much as changing his mind as going through with the idea. If he cared about the character as far back as Brawl and enough to get a Spirit of him in Ultimate, I don't see him suddenly deciding he doesn't care about the character.

Putting a spirit doesn't mean he's still interested in the character, at least for me.
When I say "being interested", I'm referring to the desire of making Geno a playable character.

Assuming Sakurai no longer cares about Geno to make him playable, that doesn't mean he will neglect his fans. He knows that there are a lot of Geno fans in the community and putting him or not as a spirit isn't really tied to Sakura's interest in the character. Even if he never considered him to be a playable character for Ultimate, I don't see why he wouldn't ask to include Geno as a spirit, when he was already talking with Square for Cloud/Hero.

I mean, I bet he would have added his Mii Costume in base game if he could, that wasn't the case so I guess Square wants to sell it eventually.

 

[PsySmasher]

According to an interview with Sakurai for the release of Dragon Quest XIS, a Dragon Quest character has been requested for a long time. As such, Dragon Quest probably did well on the ballot, being a Castlevania situation where a high number of votes for the series were spread across multiple characters.

OK so we can kinda assume that Hero along with Banjo could possibly be ballot picks, but not directly confirmed to be

So yeah still possible for more, but still not as likely imo

 

[Deleted member]

Also off-topic, but I really want a Smash-style remix of this:

Not sure if we would get Sakura Wars content in Smash anytime in the future but I for sure would 100% welcome it.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Since these were during development I imagine this was when VR was being developed. I wonder how many people actually USE that feature now lmao

To find out, we simply use this formula:

[People who own Labo VR] - [People who like using it in SSBU] = [People who use the feature]

And with this calculation, I can say with 100% certainty that the answer is...

*pauses for dramatic effect*

2.