Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[osby]

Wild how having a ponytail and a slightly different gun is more unique than *checks notes* freaky tentacles, energy absorption, selfcloning, scattershots and more.

*looks at ZSS*

Funny you should say that...

 

[Garteam]

The only reason I could see Dixie being treated differently than Dark Samus are their respective statuses in their contemporary series. Dixie still makes frequent appearances in DKC games and seems to show no sign of stopping. Dark Samus' last appearance was a decade ago and, given that she died as a rather definitive end of her arc in said appearance, it doesn't seem too likely she'd appear again. This might be enough to have Sakurai say "hold on", but I wouldn't hold my breath.

If Dixie did get in as an echo, she would probably be one of the most labour intensive echoes. She doesn't have a tail, so she couldn't borrow Diddy's animations perfectly like Lucina or Dark Pit. Instead, any attacks involving the tail would have to be reanimated with her hair, which would definitely give her some more personality but would also make her a little more difficult to work on. You should also pull a Chrom and give her DK's Spinning Kong, given it's, y'know, her move.

 

[Trevenant]

He uses magic within his moveset, though? He literally channels magic into his attacks, which boosts their massive power. Stuff like his overhead punch is a physical blow. Warlock Punch is literally a magical punch. Lightning Punch, his basic A, is a magically-enhanced punch. You could argue the others are darkness, but electricity is one of his magical abilities too. That's literally what Dead Man's Volley is as a move.

Let's remember that enhancing your physical attacks via magic has been a thing since Dungeons & Dragons. There's a difference between not heavily using magic(now that is true), and not literally using it. Projectiles is not what Magic is. There's tons of ways to wield magic, and Ganondorf has always done so in Smash. So basically, he is absolutely a magic user. It's just not the one people expected. That's okay. I can't blame anyone for finding it weird he doesn't use some of his canon abilities, but uses some others. He got more canon stuff in Brawl, 4, and Ultimate, at least.

I did mean his dead man volley projectile. And yeah I am fully aware magic can be anything (magic can literally be anything as in not just melee and ranged, there is my cheap comeback for my ego jk). Your last point kinda sums up what I meant. In a hypothetical alternate reality where Ganondorf wasn't in Smash and everything else was basically the same. Then imagine if people were to hypothetically make a Dixie kong moveset and then a ganondorf one. A Dixie set would undeniably have similarities with Diddy while I doubt anyone would have gotten close with the Ganondorf we have. I'm not super into Zelda lore so I'm not gonna act as if I know what would entail but at the very least no one would have ever guessed he would have taken cues from Falcon of all characters.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

*looks at ZSS*

Funny you should say that...

I swear to god ZSS is easily the worst conceptual character in Smash, had she not been in literally nobody would have asked for her yet she's here to stay with the best move in the ****ing game. This **** sucks man

 

[Mamboo07]

I mean, not everyone could really apply.

You got your Marios & Luigi's, Chrom and Lucina's, and maybe a good eight more tops? I don't know, I'm no genius.

Kirby with Bandana Dee and Yoshi with Poochy could be interesting.

I can just imagine Poochy swinging and spinning Yoshi around by the tongue like a living flail into opponents.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

If Dixie did get in as an echo, she would probably be one of the most labour intensive echoes. She doesn't have a tail, so she couldn't borrow Diddy's animations perfectly like Lucina or Dark Pit. Instead, any attacks involving the tail would have to be reanimated with her hair, which would definitely give her some more personality but would also make her a little more difficult to work on. You should also pull a Chrom and give her DK's Spinning Kong, given it's, y'know, her move.

Which of Diddy's attacks have him use his tail? The only one I can think of was his rapid jab but that's been replaced.

 

[Deleted member]

View attachment 269627
I swear to god ZSS is easily the worst conceptual character in Smash, had she not been in literally nobody would have asked for her yet she's here to stay with the best move in the ****ing game. This **** sucks man

Hey, at least she has rocket high-heels. That's badass no matter what.

 

[osby]

I swear to god ZSS is easily the worst conceptual character in Smash, had she not been in literally nobody would have asked for her yet she's here to stay with the best move in the ****ing game. This **** sucks man

ZSS is weird as I like everything about the character except she's Samus. Jet heels are fun in a stupid way but wish they were on a fittingly camp character.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I did mean his dead man volley projectile. And yeah I am fully aware magic can be anything (magic can literally be anything as in not just melee and ranged, there is my cheap comeback for my ego jk). Your last point kinda sums up what I meant. In a hypothetical alternate reality where Ganondorf wasn't in Smash and everything else was basically the same. Then imagine if people were to hypothetically make a Dixie kong moveset and then a ganondorf one. A Dixie set would undeniably have similarities with Diddy while I doubt anyone would have gotten close with the Ganondorf we have. I'm not super into Zelda lore so I'm not gonna act as if I know what would entail but at the very least no one would have ever guessed he would have taken cues from Falcon of all characters.

Funny thing is his Forward Aerial is the only fitting thing he'd easily still do(not to say other moves are unfitting from Ganondorf. All of his aerial fits his body design well. Thunder Punch, his Neutral A... which I think I said wrong as Lightning Punch earlier, fits well too. His Forward Tilt is very logical. There's probably others. If his sword was implemented, you could easily have had some moves use the sword but more or less be the same move. Like his Up Aerial is doable with a sword, and is just at best a different animation)., but yeah, if he was different, maybe a move or two at most, including the one I mentioned. Though the weird part is what he'd do for a his Up B with no teleport option(he doesn't teleport in WW). He doesn't even float either. I'm sure something would've come up. Some kind of sword slash akin to Marth's using both swords etc. Quickly worth noting that the sword thing is pretty much a case of "not enough time to implement it" as Melee was rushed too as a game. I'm sure he would've been somewhat different. Even if it's ironically just another form of non-canon(that's not a canons word, to note).

I really want Toon Ganondorf.

I've gone over the notable things with Dixie, and a new Up B makes sense. I explained that earlier by reusing DK's skeleton, akin to Chrom's reusing Ike's partially. Her throw would make the most sense using her hair, which would require more animations. Finally, the only "tail" attack is Diddy's ledge move, so that would need to be changed, probably to the hair as well. For the most part, she's surprisingly not that different. Ganondorf is far more different from Falcon canonically than Dixie is from Diddy. Or should I say Ganondorf from Smash Falcon.

Due to what happened, she would probably require more work. Though I do see what people mean by Dark Samus' animations probably being a bigger deal than the less stuff needed to make Dixie work overall. Only one attack must be changed, technically(ledge attack), as the rest she could literally do. Even his rocketbarrel pack(not saying she should).

Which of Diddy's attacks have him use his tail? The only one I can think of was his rapid jab but that's been replaced.

Ledge attack. That's the only one in Ultimate.

 

[Garteam]

Which of Diddy's attacks have him use his tail? The only one I can think of was his rapid jab but that's been replaced.

My bad, I had totally forgot that Diddy lost his rapid jab in Ultimate.

 

[Trevenant]

I've gone over the notable things with Dixie, and a new Up B makes sense. I explained that earlier by reusing DK's skeleton, akin to Chrom's reusing Ike's partially. Her throw would make the most sense using her hair, which would require more animations. Finally, the only "tail" attack is Diddy's ledge move, so that would need to be changed, probably to the hair as well. For the most part, she's surprisingly not that different. Ganondorf is far more different from Falcon canonically than Dixie is from Diddy. Or should I say Ganondorf from Smash Falcon.

Yeah the bottom lines were my main point in my original post. Saying that Dixie being a clone of Diddy makes as little sense as Ganondorf to Falcon doesn't really make sense. But not in any way am I saying that the moveset doesn't suit as you did just educated me on that but like what has been pointed out Dixie has more in common with Diddy than Dorf has with Cap.

 

[Calamitas]

I wonder if Breath of the Wild's sequel is gonna have any effect on Ganon in the next Smash game. We know so goddamn little about the game that's supposedly still coming out at the end of this year. honestly i'm surprised they haven't announced a delay by now

When did they say that BotW2 would release in 2020? I think all they announced at last year's E3 was that it's in development.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Yeah the bottom lines were my main point in my original post. Saying that Dixie being a clone of Diddy makes as little sense as Ganondorf to Falcon doesn't really make sense. But not in any way am I saying that the moveset doesn't suit as you did just educated me on that but like what has been pointed out Dixie has more in common with Diddy than Dorf has with Cap.

Yeah, pretty much. No arguments there. In a twist, that's partially cause Captain Falcon doesn't do any of those things too in canon. XD

 

[SNEKeater]

I want Dixie and I think she could work as an unique character, but she being a echo doesn't sound absolutely impossible to me. And yeah, Dark Samus is a villain and not a main character, but if I'm being honest maybe it's just me but when I think about the main character of the DK series the one that pops up in my mind is Donkey Kong, and maaaybe Diddy Kong.

When it comes to this I don't think comparing the franchises is really that important, DK is more popular than Metroid but when Metroid was at it's peak during the Prime trilogy (plus Metroid Fusion and Zero Mission) DK as a franchise was super 'dead' and yet Dark Samus didn't get into Smash back then. That's three games in a row with Dark Samus as the main antagonist, and Gwen already pointed out Dark Samus' multiple abilities that could warrant, for sure, an unique moveset. Despite of that she's a clone of Samus and I'm happy to have her in the game even if she's just an echo. Maybe a Ken treatment would have been better for her.

For Dixie, I could see her being an echo or an unique character, it depends on Sakurai. I think she's in a similar spot to Dark Samus, she could be unique but she could work as an echo in the style of Ken.

 

[Dinoman96]

View attachment 269627
I swear to god ZSS is easily the worst conceptual character in Smash, had she not been in literally nobody would have asked for her yet she's here to stay with the best move in the ****ing game. This **** sucks man

She literally only exists to fufill a "Metroid needs more characters!" quota

https://www.ign.com/articles/2006/05/31/sakurais-smash-bros-update

I put Zero Suit Samus in thinking I wanted to include more characters from the popular Metroid series. Also, since Smash Bros. has few female characters, I was quite happy to include her.

Honestly I can't say I'd be heartbroken if she didn't come back in future games, since now we have Ridley and Dark Samus as additional and more fitting reps for Metroid. ZSS feels like she's served her purpose.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

If I were to add Dixie Kong, I'd make her a tag-team character with Kiddy Kong. I think it'd be better than retroactively teaming her up with Diddy Kong for the fans of solo Diddy Kong and because I'm not sure what the point of a tag team character would be if both of the characters within it were of the same archetype. Anyway, Dixie Kong would be a rush down style character that acts kinda like a luigified version of Diddy Kong, and Kiddy Kong, would be the same, except he emulates Donkey Kong.

His Forward Tilt is very logical.

His Forward Tilt is actually from his source material. It's from The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess, and I think it's his only normal or special move like this.

Honestly I can't say I'd be heartbroken if she didn't come back in future games, since now we have Ridley and Dark Samus as additional and more fitting reps for Metroid. ZSS feels like she's served her purpose.

I feel similarly, though I wonder if her prominence in the competitive scene has cemented her as a series staple much like Fox and Sheik. If that is the case I'd say she probably shouldn't leave.

 

[Cosmic77]

When did they say that BotW2 would release in 2020? I think all they announced at last year's E3 was that it's in development.

They did seem to have cutscenes ready. Unless they made them early for the sake of E3, that's usually something you start working on once you've gotten a decent chunk of development done. It's hard to make cutscenes without completing the area they take place in.

I'm hoping for a 2020 release, but a delay wouldn't be out of place. I hope it doesn't though, because if by some miracle Nintendo asked Sakurai to add a BotW 2 character, a delay would make it harder for him. They may even abandon the concept entirely and ask that he make someone else instead.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

Honestly I can't say I'd be heartbroken if she didn't come back in future games, since now we have Ridley and Dark Samus as additional and more fitting reps for Metroid. ZSS feels like she's served her purpose.

I don't see much reason Sakurai would cut her, but if he did, it'd be nice seeing Smash Bros expanding the catalogue of alternate costumes and have a Justin Bailey alt.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

I personally think Dixie would be most likely be implemented either as an Isabelle/Lucas/Wolf semiclone or a Ken/Chrom style echo with a different Up-B from Diddy, similar to how Chrom has Roy's moveset but Ike's recovery. I would be happy with almost anything, as long as she's playable in the game. That's what's most important to me, having her be exposed to the massive install base of Ultimate and being included in the general culture and fanarts of Smash and whatnot.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

His Forward Tilt is actually from his source material. It's from The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess, and I think it's his only normal or special move like this..

Sorry, I should've clarified that I meant his original Melee one. This is a nice simple move for a physical person.

Though his TP one is logical even if it wasn't from the source material.

But yeah, he's only grown more canon since Brawl. And not true. His Flame Choke and Warlock Punch are based upon events from WW/TP and OOT respectively. His overhead punch(forward aerial) is literally from OOT artwork. His custom special, Warlock Thrust is a literal move he uses with the Sword of Sages during a TP cutscene.

It's more that these moves aren't illogical for him to do. They fit his bodyshape. He's legitimately a physical user. He's not pure magic as his only skill. He was literally liveingas a Gerudo, a very physical race, bar literally one(or two, technically) Magical Masters, being Twinrova/Koume and Kotake. This is why he's so damn good with a sword. This is why it makes sense in WW he can move with tons of agility. He's not filled with constant rage, but sorrow, and went more to his Gerudo roots as a fighting style. TP he's just rage-filled, being about to be executed. Which is more closer to how he acts in Smash, having a murderous vibe(which matches up more with his OOT personality, coincidentally. Obviously his TP build was easier to use for an update since it fits his current moveset very well).

 

[RetrogamerMax]

This is assuming all of us are against Dixie when the reality is that people don't think Dixie being an echo is that much of wasted potential

"Everybody that disagrees with me is the clique"
Grow the **** up lmao

I call you guys the clique because y'all like attacking Fatman. If you weren't a clique than why do you all gang up on him at once? Because you hate him.

 

[Schnee117]

I call you guys the clique because y'all like attacking Fatman. If you weren't a clique than why do you all gang up on him at once? Because you hate him.

What does that have to do with anything lmao

 

[RetrogamerMax]

What does that have to do with anything lmao

It's just the way some of you guys are.

 

[Deleted member]

I call you guys the clique because y'all like attacking Fatman. If you weren't a clique than why do you all gang up on him at once? Because you hate him.

Saying everybody in this thread goes out of there to attack Fatman is as erroneous as saying all Geno fans are nuts because of a few bad apples.

Geno gets a bad rep in this thread, and these kind of arguments that go nowhere is part of the reason why.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Saying everybody in this thread goes out of there to attack Fatman is as erroneous as saying all Geno fans are nuts because of a few bad apples.

Geno gets a bad rep in this thread, and these kind of arguments that go nowhere is part of the reason why.

I said some of you I didn't say all of you.

 

[Deleted member]

I said some of you I didn't say all of you.

Oh boy. "I only threw shade at some of you instead of all of you." How classy of you.

 

[osby]

no one:
literally no one:
absolutely nobody:
not a single person on earth:

I call you guys the clique because y'all like attacking Fatman. If you weren't a clique than why do you all gang up on him at once? Because you hate him.

 

[voya576]

How do people feel about Sylux and Porky's chances? Both seem like notable absences from the spirit list, as I'm sure has been discussed, but now throwing around Nintendo 1st party focus and potential promotional characters (Byleth, Arms, BotW 2, Pokemon DLC) is there still a place for these two in the 1st party choice list? Is it dependent on the Prime 4 schedule and the (hopefully coming someday) Mother remasters, or is there potential for them without these things?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Mooooving on, after watching more MM randomizer, I'd love for Young Link to have different shields for his alts. Deku, Hylian, Mirror(MM) at least. Not sure on a last one, though. The Mirror Shield from OOT, since it's different, I guess? Not sure what alts to tie it to, though.

Like, obviously Young Link is based upon the OOT self, but he's clearly the same guy as the one from MM, so it's very easy to add this kind of stuff in. It's not the same as using a completely different Link etc. to remake a moveset.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

How do people feel about Sylux and Porky's chances? Both seem like notable absences from the spirit list, as I'm sure has been discussed, but now throwing around Nintendo 1st party focus and potential promotional characters (Byleth, Arms, BotW 2, Pokemon DLC) is there still a place for these two in the 1st party choice list? Is it dependent on the Prime 4 schedule and the (hopefully coming someday) Mother remasters, or is there potential for them without these things?

I don't think that just because a character doesn't have a spirit in the base game, that their automatically more likely to be playable. Especially with the 2nd wave of DLC very likely starting to go for Spirit promotions.

 

[Schnee117]

For real like, if you're done talking you can just... not respond at all instead of this silly posturing.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Oh boy. "I only threw shade at some of you instead of all of you." How classy of you.

Well I am telling the truth. I had wasted enough time here I only came because these forums have been unactive a lot lately. I'm not wasting my time in this thread anymore.

no one:
literally no one:
absolutely nobody:
not a single person on earth:

You think you're smart Osby? I really don't give a ****.

 

[RocksteadyBebop]

R RetrogamerMax and @Bolderousness

you both are acting like kinda one and the same. You both decided choose to act this way. Just ignore it and move on perhaps instead of feed into the stereotypes you guys create.

 

[voya576]

I don't think that just because a character doesn't have a spirit in the base game, their automatically more likely to be playable. Especially with the 2nd wave of DLC very likely starting to go for Spirit promotions.

I definitely agree in terms of Wave 2 and promotions, but during the first wave it made them more likely in my eyes, mainly just because they were such notable characters that were missing from a part of the game where it would be fairly easy to include them. Now I'm just wondering if people still see them as contenders in wave 2.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I feel like I just watched one of those annoying episodes in which the two main characters get mad at each other and have a falling out over something stupid...

Mooooving on, after watching more MM randomizer, I'd love for Young Link to have different shields for his alts. Deku, Hylian, Mirror(MM) at least. Not sure on a last one, though. The Mirror Shield from OOT, since it's different, I guess? Not sure what alts to tie it to, though.

Like, obviously Young Link is based upon the OOT self, but he's clearly the same guy as the one from MM, so it's very easy to add this kind of stuff in. It's not the same as using a completely different Link etc. to remake a moveset.

This was also the case with the Deku Shield in Super Smash Bros. Melee (it couldn't block strong projectiles), but this was removed in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate. I think using the Mirror Shield would be fine so long as it glowed when next to a light source.

I'm inclined to agree. I don't think he should use the transformation masks since that would require new movesets, and I don't think they're warranted right now (EDIT: Meaning, I don't think having the next three newcomers from the series all be Link would be a good idea), but other masks could be fun.

 

[Deleted member]

Mooooving on, after watching more MM randomizer, I'd love for Young Link to have different shields for his alts. Deku, Hylian, Mirror(MM) at least. Not sure on a last one, though. The Mirror Shield from OOT, since it's different, I guess? Not sure what alts to tie it to, though.

Like, obviously Young Link is based upon the OOT self, but he's clearly the same guy as the one from MM, so it's very easy to add this kind of stuff in. It's not the same as using a completely different Link etc. to remake a moveset.

I'd appreciate more cosmetic differences like that. The deku shield isn't even that accurate (doesn't set on fire if you hit it with fire), so yeah. I like it.

 

[RocksteadyBebop]

Does anyone else want this Second fighter pass to be more random? Granted, most of the stuff we predict/speculate never comes true around these parts, but I’m looking more for a pass of “hey didn’t expect that” for every reveal.

I guess to me, it doesn’t matter who gets in. I obviously have my “wants”, but I guess I’m more into the crap-shoot of it all.

 

[Deleted member]

Does anyone else want this Second fighter pass to be more random? Granted, most of the stuff we predict/speculate never comes true around these parts, but I’m looking more for a pass of “hey didn’t expect that” for every reveal.

I guess to me, it doesn’t matter who gets in. I obviously have my “wants”, but I guess I’m more into the crap-shoot of it all.

Depends. Are you talking like Piranha Plant random or Joker from Persona 5 random? Because I'm all for the latter. Give me those characters I never would have expected.

 

[osby]

Does anyone else want this Second fighter pass to be more random? Granted, most of the stuff we predict/speculate never comes true around these parts, but I’m looking more for a pass of “hey didn’t expect that” for every reveal.

You mean even more random than the first one?

I don't think most people predicted any of the fighters except Banjo and even he was a "stopped watch is right twice a day" situation.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Does anyone else want this Second fighter pass to be more random? Granted, most of the stuff we predict/speculate never comes true around these parts, but I’m looking more for a pass of “hey didn’t expect that” for every reveal.

I guess to me, it doesn’t matter who gets in. I obviously have my “wants”, but I guess I’m more into the crap-shoot of it all.

The previous Fighters Pass was pretty random though:

• Break out hit who's big game wasn't even on the Switch.
• Industry juggernaut from overseas.
• Fan favorite from a long dead series that had fallen from grace years ago.
• Character from a highly influential, but not as currently relevant franchise.
• P-P-P-PROMOOOOO!!!

Get any more random than that and we'll start getting a bunch of Piranha Plants and Wii Fit Trainers, which isn't a bad thing persay, but not really something the community's looking for in their DLC.

EDIT: And heck, we're already starting out with a "character from a dead game nobody expected Nintendo to try and push."
EDIT EDIT: I should probably state that this isn't a jab at ARMS or Byleth, as I like them both. I even wanted Byleth as the hypothetical Fire Emblem: Three Houses character even though Edlegard was the hotness as far as the community was concerned.