Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[blackghost]

So, say we do just add Ribbon Girl. All of a sudden we have a character who ONLY punches but has a triple jump. That’s incredibly uninteresting.

second character with a triple jumpand punches

 

[Guynamednelson]

Terry is literally more complex than every other fighter in the fighters pass and he was fighter number four. I don't think the placement has to do with how hard they are to develop.

At the same time he doesn't have as many moves as Hero. He just doesn't need to rely on RNG to access all of them.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I'm gonna laugh if Sylux gets in. Metroid would essentially be in the same position as FE in Smash 4 (minus , who can't be substituted by a Metroid character for obvious reasons).

Smash 4: A unique FE character and a clone in the base game. Another unique as DLC.

Ultimate: A unique Metroid character and a clone in the base game. another unique as DLC.

It would be pretty surreal to have Metroid take Fire Emblem's place as the boogeyman in a future game. Just as annoying, but still surreal.

Geno is one of those characters I'll never fully understand. Even in the context of Mario spin-off characters, I doubt he'd be in my top 10 if I made a list. He just feels...so incredibly random and out of place.

For the record, I've played SMRPG several times, so it's not a matter of me being unfamiliar with him and what he could do in Smash.

I guess he just resonated with people. Personally, I haven't (and probably can't at this point) finished Super Mario RPG, but I actually remember Bowser and Mallow more from what I did play. Though I mostly remember Mallow for being less good Peach, and the scene where comically sad music plays as a cloud finds out that he isn't a frog so I probably remember him for the wrong reasons. lol

 

[Guynamednelson]

It would be pretty surreal to have Metroid take Fire Emblem's place as the boogeyman in a future game. Just as annoying, but still surreal.

Well, FE too was considered underrepresented in the days when it was just Marth and Ike.

 

[PeridotGX]

Geno is one of those characters I'll never fully understand. Even in the context of Mario spin-off characters, I doubt he'd be in my top 10 if I made a list. He just feels...so incredibly random and out of place.

For the record, I've played SMRPG several times, so it's not a matter of me being unfamiliar with him and what he could do in Smash.

How I understand it is that he's a holdover from the Brawl era, where there weren't "rules" as to who could get in. Any random bozo could get a decent fanbase if enough people brought him up (Sigurd of all characters was popular). After Brawl, people realized that maybe a one-off from an ancient game might not have the best shot at playability and dropped him, but the Smash 4 Mii Costume brought him back stronger than ever.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Well, FE too was considered underrepresented in the days when it was just Marth and Ike.

Good point. Kinda sad that now that Fire Emblem's representation exploded it's now seen as misrepresented due to mostly consisting of sword lords, and two of the least popular main characters in the franchise.

 

[Wunderwaft]

At the same time he doesn't have as many moves as Hero. He just doesn't need to rely on RNG to access all of them.

Hey may not have as many moves as Hero but he's still more intricate than the rest of the pass. They did put a back special, dodge counters, and EX moves for him. Not to mention there was so much content and cameos put into his stage. If the pass placement was decided with how hard the characters were to develop then I think he would've been revealed much earlier than the fourth slot.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Hey may not have as many moves as Hero but he's still more intricate than the rest of the pass. They did put a back special, dodge counters, and EX moves for him. Not to mention there was so much content and cameos put into his stage. If the pass placement was decided with how hard the characters were to develop then I think he would've been revealed much earlier than the fourth slot.

He'd at least be revealed before Banjo & Kazooie, who are incredibly simple characters.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

I meant only OOT/MM swords. And the Goron's Knife is technically weaker, and can get broken, but yeah, same enough design. Fierce Deity Sword works, though. Besides, YL should have a Fierce Deity design either way. He is the original Mask user, heh. There's other swords from the games, too. Maybe one of those for an 8th sword. That or just a darker color of the Master Sword for his Dark Link costume?

I would have said that you broke your own rules with the Zora Sword but then I realised that Young Link has a Breath of the Wild alt. Gosh, I'm not paying attention today...

So the alts would work like this?

Default: Kokiri Sword
Red: Biggoron Sword
Blue: Razor Sword
White: Master Sword
Pink: Great Fairy Sword
BOTW: Zora Sword
Orange: Gilded Sword
Dark: Fierce Deity Sword

 

[Eldrake]

It would be pretty surreal to have Metroid take Fire Emblem's place as the boogeyman in a future game. Just as annoying, but still surreal.

Skeleton Dark Samus coming in as a Zero Suit Samus echo for the base roster.

And then Kraid as the final fighter of Smash 6's first fighter's pass that was all third-party until him.

 

[Guynamednelson]

How I understand it is that he's a holdover from the Brawl era, where there weren't "rules" as to who could get in. Any random bozo could get a decent fanbase if enough people brought him up (Sigurd of all characters was popular). After Brawl, people realized that maybe a one-off from an ancient game might not have the best shot at playability and dropped him, but the Smash 4 Mii Costume brought him back stronger than ever.

I've said this in another thread, but if Geno fans think "old one off side character" complaints are already bad, just imagine if no one tried to build up support for him until now, where people want to assume the bar is too high for anything with less than 10 million fans.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I would have said that you broke your own rules with the Zora Sword but then I realised that Young Link has a Breath of the Wild alt. Gosh, I'm not paying attention today...

So the alts would work like this?

Default: Kokiri Sword
Red: Biggoron Sword
Blue: Razor Sword
White: Master Sword
Pink: Great Fairy Sword
BOTW: Zora Sword
Orange: Gilded Sword
Dark: Fierce Deity Sword

Whoops. I meant a makeshift sword based upon the Zora Blades that Zora Link has. Apologies for being vastly unclear. But yeah, that kind of works? ...I forgot Young Link even have a BOTW alt. In fact, sure, I like your idea better!

 

[Cosmic77]

How I understand it is that he's a holdover from the Brawl era, where there weren't "rules" as to who could get in. Any random bozo could get a decent fanbase if enough people brought him up (Sigurd of all characters was popular). After Brawl, people realized that maybe a one-off from an ancient game might not have the best shot at playability and dropped him, but the Smash 4 Mii Costume brought him back stronger than ever.

I guess it'd be easier for me to understand if I saw the same moveset potential others see. Aside from shooting bullets, he only has five attacks, and one of them just boosts an ally's attack stats. The other four are literally:

Fires a beam
Throws a ring
Palutena's Heavenly Light
Turns into a cannon, launches ball of energy

Compared to what characters in the Paper Mario and M+L series do, that doesn't seem very exciting to me. I feel like Geno is one of those pieces of illusion art that have an image hidden inside, and I'm the only one who can't see it.

Maybe I'm just weird, but I'd rather have Mario #4 through Paper Mario instead of Geno.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Considering Nintendo is choosing, not Sakurai, them picking Geno would mean it would be from pure fan demand, and basically nothing else. This is from Square Enix, a company with a vast selection of many famous characters, or at the very least from big titles throughout the industry. Not to say any of these particular characters are likely, but you’ve got names like Tifa, 2B, Neku Sakaraba, etc...

I don’t think it’s impossible for Geno to get in. He’s a character kept alive by key fan support over the course of many years. However, I’ve never been convinced that “popularity” is a strong enough argument to overlook other obstacles in the way of a character being added.

Essentially, I don’t see the appeal to non-hardcore Smash fans to pick up Geno, I don’t see the appeal for Nintendo to go for him aside from the appeal to hardcore Smash speculators...Square Enix, if they wanted to make money off of a “dead” character, has that financial gain, but...

Like, personally, I always envisioned Geno as a “hype” pick. But I’m not personally convinced that he will be added.

 

[ARandomFruit]

Out of all of the SMRPG characters I've always liked Smithy the most, I mean he's got both gun fingers AND a kinda giant hammer and turns himself into whatever the mask head is suppose to be. Basically he's pretty cool imo and I would make a moveset for him if I knew the first thing about how to do that and how to balance said moves.

 

[RocksteadyBebop]

Depends. Are you talking like Piranha Plant random or Joker from Persona 5 random? Because I'm all for the latter. Give me those characters I never would have expected.

I guess that’s sort of opinionated depending on your likes, but for the sake of it, let’s say Joker because I would of never expected that in terms of third party.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Considering Nintendo is choosing, not Sakurai, them picking Geno would mean it would be from pure fan demand, and basically nothing else. This is from Square Enix, a company with a vast selection of many famous characters, or at the very least from big titles throughout the industry. Not to say any of these particular characters are likely, but you’ve got names like Tifa, 2B, Neku Sakaraba, etc...

Also Lara freakin' Croft. Geno ain't got nothin' on her.

Like, personally, I always envisioned Geno as a “hype” pick. But I’m not personally convinced that he will be added.

Yeah that sounds about right.

Out of all of the SMRPG characters I've always liked Smithy the most, I mean he's got both gun fingers AND a kinda giant hammer and turns himself into whatever the mask head is suppose to be. Basically he's pretty cool imo and I would make a moveset for him if I knew the first thing about how to do that and how to balance said moves.

I never met him. I think the last thing I did was fight the cake.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

It was 2013.

June 2014. The first bit got cut but he did indeed say no despite wanting it.


The only predictable characters were Hero, who people only saw coming due to leaks and pretended that they never heard of Dragon Quest in their lives when it happened, Banjo, who was up there with Ridley and K.Rool's fanbases for constantly going "HE'S IN" meaning he would always be predicted, and Byleth, because 3H didn't have a Spirit event.

 

[Garteam]

Honestly, part of the appeal of Geno (for me, at least) is just how a strange a pick he seems on paper. His only major role in the entire Mario series is as a supporting party member from a 24-year old, moderately popular RPG on the Super Nintendo. Other than that, he has an extremely minor cameo as a glorified text box in 2003 GBA RPG, only to get replaced by a literal text box in the game's remake. There's no way someone like that could get into Smash.

However, just because he left such a strong impression in his one appearance, he's kept up a massive fan following that has rallied so hard to get him in the game. His popularity is so much that Sakurai himself has gone out of his way to throw them a bone with a Mii Costume in Smash for Wii U/3DS and a spirit in Ultimate. As such, I kinda see Geno as Smash's ultimate underdog, the character with almost everything going against him except a passion amongst his fans to keep him afloat.

As such, even though I probably wouldn't play Geno that much, I would be extremely happy to see the decade long tale of Geno and Smash Bros have a happy ending. Everyone came back, Ridley isn't too big, K. Rool is getting attention again, Dragon Quest's rights issues were rangled to get Hero, and Nintendo and Microsoft buried the hatchet to get Banjo-Kazooie in the game. Having Geno get in, the long shot of long shots, would be the final great testament to how magical Super Smash Bros Ultimate is.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Considering Nintendo is choosing, not Sakurai, them picking Geno would mean it would be from pure fan demand, and basically nothing else. This is from Square Enix, a company with a vast selection of many famous characters, or at the very least from big titles throughout the industry. Not to say any of these particular characters are likely, but you’ve got names like Tifa, 2B, Neku Sakaraba, etc...

I don’t think it’s impossible for Geno to get in. He’s a character kept alive by key fan support over the course of many years. However, I’ve never been convinced that “popularity” is a strong enough argument to overlook other obstacles in the way of a character being added.

Essentially, I don’t see the appeal to non-hardcore Smash fans to pick up Geno, I don’t see the appeal for Nintendo to go for him aside from the appeal to hardcore Smash speculators...Square Enix, if they wanted to make money off of a “dead” character, has that financial gain, but...

Like, personally, I always envisioned Geno as a “hype” pick. But I’m not personally convinced that he will be added.

While I do agree that Neku's a more well-known character than Geno, let's not pretend TWEWY's mainstream like the other examples you listed, even if Kingdom Hearts gave it one hell of a boost

 

[blackghost]

Considering Nintendo is choosing, not Sakurai, them picking Geno would mean it would be from pure fan demand, and basically nothing else. This is from Square Enix, a company with a vast selection of many famous characters, or at the very least from big titles throughout the industry. Not to say any of these particular characters are likely, but you’ve got names like Tifa, 2B, Neku Sakaraba, etc...

I don’t think it’s impossible for Geno to get in. He’s a character kept alive by key fan support over the course of many years. However, I’ve never been convinced that “popularity” is a strong enough argument to overlook other obstacles in the way of a character being added.

Essentially, I don’t see the appeal to non-hardcore Smash fans to pick up Geno, I don’t see the appeal for Nintendo to go for him aside from the appeal to hardcore Smash speculators...Square Enix, if they wanted to make money off of a “dead” character, has that financial gain, but...

Like, personally, I always envisioned Geno as a “hype” pick. But I’m not personally convinced that he will be added.

i've got the exact view. i dont see geno as a hype pick at all. the bar to be a DLC jrpg character has been set at cloud and hero. I dont think outside of the hardcore Nintendo fan that is over a certain age would like that pick. not to mention the whole business side of it with square, who gets virtually nothing out of such a deal.

as for the whole dixie discussion: are people advocating her for DLC or to be included in future installments in the base game? becuase as a DLC unless her moveset is VASTLY different im not in favor of her as DLC. and i think the comparison between her and Darksamus is way off base.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

i've got the exact view. i dont see geno as a hype pick at all. the bar to be a DLC jrpg character has been set at cloud and hero. I dont think outside of the hardcore Nintendo fan that is over a certain age would like that pick. not to mention the whole business side of it with square, who gets virtually nothing out of such a deal.

That's not quite what he said.

and i think the comparison between her and Darksamus is way off base.

I dunno. They're both major characters of a trilogy of games that are highly evocative of characters that are highly on the roster, but still have the potential to bring something new to the table.

 

[Deleted member]

Terry is literally more complex than every other fighter in the fighters pass and he was fighter number four. I don't think the placement has to do with how hard they are to develop.

Hero was developed around the same timeframe as Joker and was released months later than Joker most likely in part due to his 20-something down Bs mechanic and his stage being built from the ground up, and Joker's comeback mechanic doesn't sound easy to develop either since the devs would need to balance out how strong Joker would be with Arsene at hand. Plus, Mementos looks like a really hard stage to conceptualize than create.

Now, we don't know when Sakurai and his team started working on Terry, but unlike Hero, he has mechanics that have already been explored in the past like input commands and the always facing opponent mechanic. This time, they explored even further with those commands and even gave him the ability to use certain commands when damaged at a certain point. While I wouldn't say their experiences developing Ryu and Ken made it easier to work on Terry, being familiar with those command inputs does sound like Terry's development was not as time consuming as it might've been had they never worked on it before. They even got a specific month for when he releases unlike Hero and BK. Perhaps the only real time consumer of FP4 was the stage with all that it has in it.

Banjo & Kazooie are the only real outliers here simply because they only have an invincible side B that could only be used 5 times per stock, making them the 2nd simplest character in Vol 1 (the simplest being Byleth). The only way I could see BK's placement being before Terry is because of this being the first time Sakurai has worked with a foreign company which sounds more time consuming because of communication. Sakurai did say Microsoft allowed him to do whatever with BK, but that doesn't really mean Sakurai wasn't showing them everything and not asking for feedback whatsoever.

Maybe I should've said in my post that Sakurai probably develops the characters he believes would be difficult to work on first. Again, we have yet to see if FP7 or even FP8 will also be as complex if not more than ARMS to see if this'll be the case, but if it does, this thought would sound more believable than most others.

 

[ARandomFruit]

I never met him. I think the last thing I did was fight the cake.

Yeah the sad part about him is he really only shows up at the end which is probably why he isn't as popular as the other characters in the game.

 

[SNEKeater]

Bottom-of-the-barrel picks especially Sylux with his only claim to fame is "He's gonna be relevant one day, you guys. Just you wait!" Seriously, I cannot think of a more overhyped pick than a random bounty hunter who wasn't even the ring leader leading the other hunters in his debut game. He did nothing in Prime 3 except stalk Samus in the ending (provided you 100% otherwise he no shows), and steal a metroid in the ending assuming you did a bonus objective from one of the missions from Federation Force. And yet, people hype him he up to be the main antagonist of a game that had to restart development. Could Sylux still appear in Prime 4? Maybe, but I'd rather wait until an official trailer or official info is released than delude myself to thinking his role is guaranteed.

Yeah... Honestly, I think similar to you. As a Metroid fan I should say I don't have anything against Sylux but I don't think he has anything special either if we talk about his official appearences so far.
I actually think he will appear in Prime 4. Tanabe seems to like the character and he talked about Sylux multiple times, so I'm expecting him to have a major role in Prime 4, and maybe then Sylux will be developed and be more interesting to me, but for now I don't get at all the interest behind him.

I don't want to sound aggresive or criticize his fans, but I don't know... For me Sylux seems just a really minor character in the series, and if it was up to me I wouldn't make him return in Prime 4 because I think there are more interesting ideas for a new antagonist, but I'm completely open to be surprised and I'd like that to be the case. Who knows, maybe when Prime 4 comes out I'll end loving Sylux because of his role in the game, but for now he's just a minor character in the series, and while his absence as a Spirit in Ultimate is certainly strange I don't see him as a likely option for DLC, specially after Prime 4 development being restarted.

Skeleton Dark Samus coming in as a Zero Suit Samus echo for the base roster.
View attachment 269652
And then Kraid as the final fighter of Smash 6's first fighter's pass that was all third-party until him.

This should have been an alt for Dark Samus.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Yeah... Honestly, I think similar to you. As a Metroid fan I should say I don't have anything against Sylux but I don't think he has anything special either if we talk about his official appearences so far.
I actually think he will appear in Prime 4. Tanabe seems to like the character and he talked about Sylux multiple times, so I'm expecting him to have a major role in Prime 4, and maybe then Sylux will be developed and be more interesting to me, but for now I don't get at all the interest behind him.

I don't want to sound aggresive or criticize his fans, but I don't know... For me Sylux seems just a really minor character in the series, and if it was up to me I wouldn't make him return in Prime 4 because I think there are more interesting ideas for a new antagonist, but I'm completely open to be surprised and I'd like that to be the case. Who knows, maybe when Prime 4 comes out I'll end loving Sylux because of his role in the game, but for now he's just a minor character in the series.

Sylux likely got popular because "Ridley is too big" and "Dark Samus is literally a third Samus so why would you want that if part of the reason why you want a third Metroid character is to have one that isn't Samus". He was just the next character on the totem pole in an era where people thought the Metroid Prime series would continue soon. I think Rundas was there too, but he was probably ditched due to having a more uncertain future (Or for being a one-off. I dunno if he died or not).

I wouldn't exclude Sylux from Metroid Prime 4 since that'd be a waste of buildup. I don't know enough to say what I'd do with him though.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Honestly you'll see any other 1st party character before you see Sylux. Metroid is unfortunately one of Nintendo's lesser popular franchises when compared to the likes of Mario, Donkey Kong, Fire Emblem, Pokemon, Kirby, TLoZ and such.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Btw you guys arguing about how development affects the order are overlooking that the simplest character with a stage that reused assets was on the tail end of the first pass, seems to me that they chose the order first

 

[osby]

Honestly you'll see any other 1st party character before you see Sylux. Metroid is unfortunately one of Nintendo's lesser popular franchises when compared to the likes of Mario, Donkey Kong, Fire Emblem, Pokemon, Kirby, TLoZ and such.

Fire Emblem

This is going to result in a mature, civil and constructive discussion.

 

[TheCJBrine]

I think Geno is pretty cool. His standard attack is pretty much just bullets or mini stars (though he can also launch his fists and maybe something else I’m forgetting, idk), but the Legacy XP mod does a good job with him imo and his moves are all cool in SMRPG as well. He looks cool, has a nice personality, and come on, he can shoot laser beams, make stars rain down, boost himself and allies, throw a glowing disc of destruction, launch himself out of his doll-body-turned-cannon and KA-BOOOOOM, and potentially other things like the stuff XP has.

He’s a star spirit possessing a weaponized doll, so they could do some cool stuff with that as well, like how his crouch in Legacy XP has Geno leaving the doll and hovering above it as it goes limp.

also if Geno gets in he needs his ‘Murica cape.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Personally myself I'm not expecting Geno tbh. His demand isn't as big as its believed and mostly stems for an dedicated fanbase notably on here.

Sadly I possibility see him returning as an Mii costume if anything. I won't deny being wrong though if he makes the cut and if he does I'm down for him as I'm curious to see how fun he'd be to play.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

This is going to result in a mature, civil and constructive discussion.

It'll be ok so long as we all agree he's not wrong.

...
...
...
Oh no...

 

[Guybrush20X6]

June 2014. The first bit got cut but he did indeed say no despite wanting it.


The only predictable characters were Hero, who people only saw coming due to leaks and pretended that they never heard of Dragon Quest in their lives when it happened, Banjo, who was up there with Ridley and K.Rool's fanbases for constantly going "HE'S IN" meaning he would always be predicted, and Byleth, because 3H didn't have a Spirit event.

Banjo was a bit hit or miss given he's owned by a console rival but once Cuphead made the jump it was all in on that and Byleth was tied with the other three houses Lords.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

I'm kind of tuckered on Frenbul discussion and a bit late on Metron, but my opinion of Sylux is he's a less-cool Thanos pre-Infinity War;
He's hyped up as hell, but is hidden away in some of the least-popular Metroid games as stingers just hinting at his existence. I feel like you need to re-evaluate his chances if you're using Federation Force as the crux of your argument. Even Thanos had the comics to fall back on if the audience didn't know why we should be scared of the purple guy lounging on his throne, Sylux is basically just floating around promising he'll do something cool eventually.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

I really don't think we need a third Metroid newcomer in Ultimate before DK gets Dixie, Kirby gets a 4th character, Zelda gets a non Link newcomer, Xenoblade gets a 2nd rep, etc. Let alone Sylux's importance within his own series is overhyped.

Ridley and Dark Samus are good enough for now.

 

[slrigeigdew]

Wait wait wait... some people want Sylux because they THINK he'll play a big role in MP4? It hasn't been confirmed yet? Am I hearing that right? I don't follow Metroid news so he went completely under my radar.

 

[RandomAce]

I think it’s funny how Byleth throughout all of FP1 speculation was literally this:

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Wait wait wait... some people want Sylux because they THINK he'll play a big role in MP4? It hasn't been confirmed yet? Am I hearing that? I don't follow Metroid news so he went completely under my radar.

He was a Smash 4 DLC pick. I think most Metroid fans are happy with their cast at the moment.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Wait wait wait... some people want Sylux because they THINK he'll play a big role in MP4? It hasn't been confirmed yet? Am I hearing that? I don't follow Metroid news so he went completely under my radar.

Sylux was teased at the end of Prime 3 and FedForce, with Tanabe having said Sylux was planned to be big in Prime 4

 

[Arcanir]

Sylux to me suffers in that as a character he relying mostly on the promise that he will be important rather then him being important, and that limits how much you can latch on to the character. With the other Metroid characters, despite the arguments against them, it was easy to get people to rally behind them because we knew they were important. For Ridley, he was the recurring arch-rival of Samus and tied deeply to Metroid's history and story whereas for Dark Samus she is the main antagonist of a very popular subseries for the franchise. Both have a solid base for people to work off of and talk about those characters, and then explain why it'd be cool to have them. Sylux doesn't have that yet, he does have a playable appearance in Hunters, but there he was one of six Hunters and he didn't really stand out much from the others, and the cameos are basically just hints at what could be rather then giving him anything of substance. So he doesn't have much to go off of by comparison, we know he will be important, but we don't know what that is, so it doesn't make him very appealing when there are characters that we do have much more to their characters and thus more to latch on to.

June 2014. The first bit got cut but he did indeed say no despite wanting it.

I would've liked to have gotten the full question and statement for context but thanks for this, I only heard of the interview.