Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[UberMadman]

Considering Nintendo is choosing, not Sakurai, them picking Geno would mean it would be from pure fan demand, and basically nothing else. This is from Square Enix, a company with a vast selection of many famous characters, or at the very least from big titles throughout the industry. Not to say any of these particular characters are likely, but you’ve got names like Tifa, 2B, Neku Sakaraba, etc...

I don’t think it’s impossible for Geno to get in. He’s a character kept alive by key fan support over the course of many years. However, I’ve never been convinced that “popularity” is a strong enough argument to overlook other obstacles in the way of a character being added.

Essentially, I don’t see the appeal to non-hardcore Smash fans to pick up Geno, I don’t see the appeal for Nintendo to go for him aside from the appeal to hardcore Smash speculators...Square Enix, if they wanted to make money off of a “dead” character, has that financial gain, but...

Like, personally, I always envisioned Geno as a “hype” pick. But I’m not personally convinced that he will be added.

I see your point... but pretty much everything you said is also applicable to Banjo & Kazooie, who we already got. 3rd party with no foreseeable future on Nintendo consoles who hasn’t been relevant in a long time only kept alive by tremendous fan passion. Nintendo did choose then though, probably because they felt that ensuring at least one hyper-demanded character made it into the first Fighter’s Pass, and if they feel the same way for Pass 2, I think Geno has a solid shot.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I see your point... but pretty much everything you said is also applicable to Banjo & Kazooie, who we already got. 3rd party with no foreseeable future on Nintendo consoles who hasn’t been relevant in a long time only kept alive by tremendous fan passion. Nintendo did choose then though, probably because they felt that ensuring at least one hyper-demanded character made it into the first Fighter’s Pass, and if they feel the same way for Pass 2, I think Geno has a solid shot.

Banjo-Kazooie, to me, is a bit different from Geno in this case, though the level of difference could be argued.

Banjo-Kazooie is a series that gained any and all prominence it currently has from the original games that released on Nintendo consoles. A revival has been high on the list of gamers for years, but it has never happened. On top of that, Nintendo having a working relationship in the capacity that they have recently, is unprecedented between main console producers.

Geno, on the other hand, is a party member from a generations old title. Granted, he’s a cool character! But I don’t know how actually similar to Banjo-Kazooie he really is.

 

[Idon]

I see your point... but pretty much everything you said is also applicable to Banjo & Kazooie, who we already got. 3rd party with no foreseeable future on Nintendo consoles who hasn’t been relevant in a long time only kept alive by tremendous fan passion. Nintendo did choose then though, probably because they felt that ensuring at least one hyper-demanded character made it into the first Fighter’s Pass, and if they feel the same way for Pass 2, I think Geno has a solid shot.

Think the difference is Microsoft at least somewhat cares about Banjo to the extent they're willing to market him whenever the topic of Rare as a company is brought up ie Rare replay or XBOX gamepass or whatever.

I don't think Squeenix ever has or ever will bring up SMRPG, and by extension, Geno.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

I see your point... but pretty much everything you said is also applicable to Banjo & Kazooie, who we already got. 3rd party with no foreseeable future on Nintendo consoles who hasn’t been relevant in a long time only kept alive by tremendous fan passion. Nintendo did choose then though, probably because they felt that ensuring at least one hyper-demanded character made it into the first Fighter’s Pass, and if they feel the same way for Pass 2, I think Geno has a solid shot.

Banjo & Kazooie are further removed from Geno and also Geno distinctly doesn't have a company willing to back him like Banjo & Kazooie did with Microsoft and Phil Spencer sounding the horn in his favor. I don't think Square Enix hates Geno or anything, but they're definitely not showing him or Super Mario RPG any attention and aren't actively trying to push any support for Geno like Phil Spencer did for Banjo & Kazooie. Banjo & Kazooie were considerably more important icons as they were icons of Nintendo's N64 era and were even owned by Nintendo for years prior to being traded off in the Rare buyout. Super Mario RPG itself released at the end of the SNES' life and thus couldn't really come to define it in the same way when Nintendo was shifting focus towards the N64 in the first place.

But there's a bigger elephant in the room with the comparison and that's Geno is a dueteragonist in a greater Super Mario title that you can actively even bench once you get other characters, whereas you're playing as Banjo & Kazooie as the main characters the whole time and are always controlling them in the original game (sometimes transformed, but still Banjo & Kazooie). They represent an entire world and franchise on their own and can't have a Banjo-Kazooie game without Banjo & Kazooie, whereas Nintendo has spent the last 20 years proving you can have Mario RPGs without Geno (or well, at least a decade before they stopped caring about Mario RPGs). Super Mario RPG can be referenced across existing fighters in Smash and be completely true to form, whereas again, Banjo & Kazooie were entirely unique.

Finally, Square Enix is just such a different beast from Microsoft to begin with. Beyond not being as inherently willing to bend as I think we've seen Microsoft be, they just own such a ridiculous stable of IPs that people genuinely know and love. Final Fantasy is still ripe for additional fighters and content, and someone like Tifa or Barrett from Final Fantasy VII are still some of the most beloved JRPG characters to this day. Lara Croft is owned by them as the first lady of gaming in many respects. 2B has quickly become a current generation icon with an ever expanding presence with Nier. Mana, Chrono Trigger, TWEWY, and other titles all round out their IPs as well, and then you have Sora forever looming too (even if he's technically Disney).

You put that all together, and I think it's safe to say Geno's situation is several degrees worse off than Banjo & Kazooie's was coming into Smash. I don't think it's an equivalence you can responsibly establish, and it's not like there isn't a list of several other fan requests they could implement if they wanted another fan requested character that doesn't face all these issues. I may still be a Geno fan who would like to see him, but his situation is dire and in rough shape on the best of days.

 

[Dark Bagel]

This is going to result in a mature, civil and constructive discussion.

Oh boy! Is it that time of day again? Ok, I'll start:

"Fire Emblem is the worst thing to ever exist. Ever, in the history of anything and everything. The source of all my pain, suffering, and torment on this sweet, sweet green planet of ours. It ruined my relationships, my livelihood, and most importantly: my potato salad. Sakurai, how could you? Why, oh why?!"

 

[Animegamingnerd]

Considering Nintendo is choosing, not Sakurai, them picking Geno would mean it would be from pure fan demand, and basically nothing else. This is from Square Enix, a company with a vast selection of many famous characters, or at the very least from big titles throughout the industry. Not to say any of these particular characters are likely, but you’ve got names like Tifa, 2B, Neku Sakaraba, etc...

I don’t think it’s impossible for Geno to get in. He’s a character kept alive by key fan support over the course of many years. However, I’ve never been convinced that “popularity” is a strong enough argument to overlook other obstacles in the way of a character being added.

Essentially, I don’t see the appeal to non-hardcore Smash fans to pick up Geno, I don’t see the appeal for Nintendo to go for him aside from the appeal to hardcore Smash speculators...Square Enix, if they wanted to make money off of a “dead” character, has that financial gain, but...

Like, personally, I always envisioned Geno as a “hype” pick. But I’m not personally convinced that he will be added.

Geno does have a massive problem of being an obscure Square Enix character, like its makes so much sense that Cloud and Hero got in over Geno, as Hero is from one of the biggest JRPG franchises of all time and Cloud is the most iconic and beloved JRPG protagonist of all time. Plus there are so many other characters that Square owns that are a far bigger deal then Geno, like I would say Square owns as many iconic characters as Capcom. Hell we are just talking about the SNES era of Square Enix I would say Crono, Cecil, or Terra have a better shot then Geno does as they simply care more about Chrono Trigger and Final Fantasy IV and VI then Mario RPG.

Then on Nintendo's side, there are numble of Mario characters that are also bigger and more well known and relevant then Geno. Right now in terms of Mario RPG's, right now Paper Mario might be the only one who shows any signs of life as Alphadream (who may I remind you was made up of people who worked on Super Mario RPG) went bankrupt and Nintendo did nothing to save them. So Mario RPG spin offs don't seem like a top priority as a promotional pick in general.

 

[wynn728]

We have enough Fire Emblem characters as is we don't need anymore for Ultimate. A series that does need more characters is Xenoblade which only has one rep at the moment wtf.

Agree but that does matter at all. Sakurai and Nintendo don't feel the same and would totally be down for more Fire Emblem character. Again, this man loves the series so much that he would not say no to more.

 

[RocksteadyBebop]

Here we go again with the “Nintendo/Sakurai love fire emblem but I hate it so it shouldn’t be in” talks again

 

[Hinata]

Every time I see Geno brought up, I think back to an argument I had in one of my Discord servers where someone argued that the reason why Geno never appears in anything anymore is that Square Enix just loves him soooooo much, that they'll never let anyone use him, or let him appear in anything, for fear of him not being used properly.

Which is, by far, one of the dumbest ****in' arguments I've ever heard in my life.

 

[Cosmic77]

Keeping it simple, there are two main differences between Banjo and Geno.

For starters, neither Nintendo nor SE really seem to value Geno. They don't care enough to have done anything with him over the past 24 years he's existed. Microsoft at least values Banjo enough to reference him from time to time. Phil Spencer himself even advocated for Banjo to get in Smash. The small cameo in the first M+L game and virtual console is the best Geno's gotten outside Smash. Fan demand is honestly the only reason why Nintendo would care enough to request him. Unlike Microsoft, SE is already involved with Smash and could care less about anything related to SMRPG.

Second, Banjo is the star of his own franchise. As dead as that franchise has been, he's still the top dog. Everything revolves around him. Geno is competing against several other candidates as a rep for the most iconic video game franchise of all time. He's one small, disfunctional cog in a giant machine.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Even though Geno has a multitude of other Square Enix characters to compete with, the fact that Square Enix allowed Sakurai and Nintendo to have a Mii costume and Spirit of him means that he's being acknowledged. Along with Mallow, he is the only other Square Enix character to appear in the base game in some way besides Cloud, which is more than any of their more obscure series will probably ever have. Square Enix could have just stopped with Cloud, the Chocobo hat and rejected the use of Geno if they didn't want him.

So that means Nintendo could be aware of Geno's popularity and there is a possibility that they might pick him. It really depends if Square Enix are satisfied with Cloud and the Heroes and want to put Geno into the game for the fans.

 

[Honest Slug]

I like how 2 years ago everyone was like "Obviously Banjo has no chance because Microsoft hasn't done anything with Banjo in 10 years, Steve would be the obvious pick." and now we're all like "Actually Microsoft deeply cares about a series that has been MIA since a mediocre 2008 racing game."

Seems like goalpost moving ngl.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Every time I see Geno brought up, I think back to an argument I had in one of my Discord servers where someone argued that the reason why Geno never appears in anything anymore is that Square Enix just loves him soooooo much, that they'll never let anyone use him, or let him appear in anything, for fear of him not being used properly.

Which is, by far, one of the dumbest ****in' arguments I've ever heard in my life.

I don't know... remember that one guy who claimed the only reason Terry got in was because Sakurai and Fatal Fury's creator were... you know?

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I don't know... remember that one guy who claimed the only reason Terry got in was because Sakurai and Fatal Fury's creator were... you know?

dammit why'd you have to remind me i was suppressing that memory

 

[wynn728]

Geno has no chance. Square is difficult and had to be won over to get Hero in, Nintendo ain't going to fight and go through the hassle to get Geno just because people want him. If his demand actually had weight behind then why did they pass him up four time already? How is this fifth time going to be any different when Vol 1 had no interest on filling the Pass with fan requested characters?
Also let's not forget that when Sakurai was in charge of selecting characters despite saying how much he wanted Geno he decided that a Spirit would suffice and rather had put in a Piranha Plant instead. These characters were decided upon on the tail end of Smash 4's life cycle where they made the Geno Mii Costume because of the demand, so talk was established for him and it literally lead to nowhere. Either Sakurai really doesn't care about including Geno or Square Enix doesn't want to bother with Geno.

 

[Cosmic77]

Even though Geno has a multitude of other Square Enix characters to compete with, the fact that Square Enix allowed Sakurai and Nintendo to have a Mii costume and Spirit of him means that he's being acknowledged. Along with Mallow, he is the only other Square Enix character to appear in the base game in some way besides Cloud, which is more than any of their more obscure series will probably ever have. Square Enix could have just stopped with Cloud, the Chocobo hat and rejected the use of Geno if they didn't want him.

So that means Nintendo could be aware of Geno's popularity and there is a possibility that they might pick him. It really depends if Square Enix are satisfied with Cloud and the Heroes and want to put Geno into the game for the fans.

We likely have Sakurai to thank for the Geno Mii Costume and SMRPG Spirits. I don't think Nintendo had anything to do with either of those things, and I can't imagine SE suddenly sticking their head out for Geno after neglecting him for decades.

 

[Honest Slug]

"Guys, there's no chance Snake is ever coming back, do you know how difficult Konami is to work with? Nintendo would never go through all that just for one requested character!"

 

[chocolatejr9]

dammit why'd you have to remind me i was suppressing that memory

Because I like watching people suffer. It makes me feel better about my own suffering.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

In what world is June 2014 an entire year before Robin's trailer

I’m referring to this interview.

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2013/07/ninterview_meet_matthew_mercer_voice_actor_for_chrom

Was there another interview in June 2014 where he said the same thing that I’m just not aware of?

 

[Cosmic77]

"Guys, there's no chance Snake is ever coming back, do you know how difficult Konami is to work with? Nintendo would never go through all that just for one requested character!"

They might if the main selling point of the game was "EVERYONE IS HERE!"

Sounds a lot better to consumers than "EVERYONE EXCEPT SNAKE IS HERE!"

 

[TheCJBrine]

Geno is a Mario character, so there’s a chance SE just didn’t want to use him outside of Mario games due to wanting him to stay a Mario character (they’d have to change him somewhat for him to not be a Mario character anyway, like removing his lore with Star Road; heck, his real self is a Mario star spirit), though they did neglect to include him in the sports games they worked on and Fortune Street even though they allowed the cameo in Superstar Saga...

Still, NoA acknowledged him a couple times in 2018, though that probably doesn’t matter since NoJ hasn’t...idk. They did give the Geno costume a character intro card-thing, though...

 

[slrigeigdew]

As someone who has played and loved Super Mario RPG, Geno is in the same boat as Banjo and Ridley where I only want them in to spite everyone who said it was impossible. I have no greater attachment to Geno than I do any other character in that game, in fact I can think of several Mario characters that are more recognizable and more deserving than Geno imo

 

[Evil Trapezium]

We likely have Sakurai to thank for the Geno Mii Costume and SMRPG Spirits. I don't think Nintendo had anything to do with either of those things, and I can't imagine SE suddenly sticking their head out for Geno after neglecting him for decades.

From what I understand, Geno is jointly owned by Nintendo and Square Enix so they can't do anything with Geno unless Nintendo has a say in it.

Still, NoA acknowledged him a couple times in 2018, though that probably doesn’t matter since NoJ hasn’t...idk. They did give the Geno costume a character intro card-thing, though...

Nah, it only matters if Nintendo of Japan says anything about Geno. Nintendo of America only exists for marketing and translating games.

 

[Freduardo]

“You can’t possibly get the ability to use a character the series has previously and recently used as a spirit and as a mii costume.”

Just saying if it was that hard to get Geno in Smash, there wouldn’t be so much Geno in Smash.

It’s not about the difficulty of getting the character, it’s about whether it’s too deep of a cut at this point or whether it’s proper fanservice since he’s been talked about since Brawl. And he was fanservice enough for a mii costume

 

[RocksteadyBebop]

Why can’t we just let people want what they want without ****ting on them. thats absolutely rude and disrespectful.

I don’t care which party starts it, both groups are the cause of behaviors like this.

if people want Geno, get over it. If people don’t want Geno, get over it. It won’t change a thing. Instead of trying to get the upper hand and be jackasses, how about Engage in fun discussions. Just be respectful, and maybe this place wouldn’t get such a bad wrap.

 

[Cosmic77]

Why can’t we just let people want what they want without ****ting on them. thats absolutely rude and disrespectful.

I don’t care which party starts it, both groups are the cause of behaviors like this.

if people want Geno, get over it. If people don’t want Geno, get over it. It won’t change a thing. Instead of trying to get the upper hand and be jackasses, how about Engage in fun discussions. Just be respectful, and maybe this place wouldn’t get such a bad wrap.

Seems like most people are being pretty tame and respectful toward one another.

You can't really have a debate between two sides if everyone is only saying positive things about a character.

 

[Mamboo07]

Just randomly found this while on Gamefaqs.

 

[SNEKeater]

Even though Geno has a multitude of other Square Enix characters to compete with, the fact that Square Enix allowed Sakurai and Nintendo to have a Mii costume and Spirit of him means that he's being acknowledged. Along with Mallow, he is the only other Square Enix character to appear in the base game in some way besides Cloud, which is more than any of their more obscure series will probably ever have. Square Enix could have just stopped with Cloud, the Chocobo hat and rejected the use of Geno if they didn't want him.

So that means Nintendo could be aware of Geno's popularity and there is a possibility that they might pick him. It really depends if Square Enix are satisfied with Cloud and the Heroes and want to put Geno into the game for the fans.

I don't want to sound rude or anything but Square allowing Sakurai to put a Geno Costume could be viewed differently. Something like "nah, if you want a character from us it's gotta be one of our main IPs. We don't care about Geno, but sure you can make a Mii Costume for him. But the DLC character would be Cloud"
Sakurai obviously approached Square asking for Cloud and not Geno, but he was aware that Geno had demand among the Smash community and I guess he tried to bring something for his fans, Square thought "well that's fine, why not" and agreed.

Square's not gonna use Geno in any form, they didn't in all these past years, but for them (and any company) it makes more sense to bring one of your top franchises to Smash instead of a 20 old year character from a SNES game. Geno Costume always felt like a consolation prize to me.

Now that DQ and Final Fantasy are in Smash Geno has less competition, but I wouldn't understimate the great and interesting library of IPs and characters Square has. Yeah, maybe now they could say "yeah Sakurai, okay, put Geno as a playable character, we're okay with that", but if I was Square I'd be a lot more interested in putting Nier, Tomb Raider or Bravely Default in Smash.

Of course, this is assuming that Sakurai's still interested in Geno as a playable character.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

How is this fifth time going to be any different when Vol 1 had no interest on filling the Pass with fan requested characters?

Say what you will about ulterior motives, but if they weren't such a large request they would not be here.

Why can’t we just let people want what they want without ****ting on them. thats absolutely rude and disrespectful.

I don’t care which party starts it, both groups are the cause of behaviors like this.

if people want Geno, get over it. If people don’t want Geno, get over it. It won’t change a thing. Instead of trying to get the upper hand and be jackasses, how about Engage in fun discussions. Just be respectful, and maybe this place wouldn’t get such a bad wrap.

I don't think anyone's really dissing Geno, but it can certainly feel that way with everyone and their mother saying why they think he's not a contender, with many of them saying pretty much the same thing.

 

[RocksteadyBebop]

Seems like most people are being pretty tame and respectful toward one another.

You can't really have a debate between two sides if everyone is only saying positive things about a character.

It’s not that, it’s the fact people say stuff as a FACT when in reality, we really do not know at all what the thoughts of Nintendo or Sakurai want. It’s almost insane to try and guess.

yet we act like we can predict them all the time and then bash everyone.

 

[Cosmic77]

It’s not that, it’s the fact people say stuff as a FACT when in reality, we really do not know at all what the thoughts of Nintendo or Sakurai want. It’s almost insane to try and guess.

yet we act like we can predict them all the time and then bash everyone.

That's what I was getting at. I see people disagreeing, but not necessarily "bashing". Bashing would be more along the lines of. "Why are people wasting their time on this stupid character? He's worthless, irrelevant, and has no chance, and anyone who supports him is dumb!"

There might be a few people confusing fact with opinion, but when do we ever have a conversation where that doesn't happen? That's just a part of speculation that's here to stay.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

It’s not that, it’s the fact people say stuff as a FACT when in reality, we really do not know at all what the thoughts of Nintendo or Sakurai want. It’s almost insane to try and guess.

yet we act like we can predict them all the time and then bash everyone.

I mean, we do have almost 21 years of Smash history and countless articles and columns from Sakurai that express his thoughts and approaches to Smash. I understand that not everyone is interested in talking with regards to precedent and those things, but this community has always had an issue with deifying Sakurai and making him out to be some unpredictable force of nature when he's really just a talented developer that can occasionally make some big crossover moments happen or throw a few surprises by taking a specific interest in a character and/or idea. Speculation is the act of trying to predict or guess something based upon an absence of more complete information, so yeah, I think it's pretty natural to have people talk about how Sakurai and Nintendo approach this series at this point.

And to be a bit more blunt, talking about character as not having terribly high chances of getting in the context of speculation in a fairly respectful manner isn't "bashing" anyone and I don't think anything here really crosses any lines. Criticizing Geno's chances are not the same thing as criticizing his fans or the character himself, and that's a natural part of speculation if you wanna talk Smash and what the future may or may not bring. Hell, I actively want Geno and like him and Super Mario RPG as a character, so it's not from a place of malice against the character I talk about his chances like I do. It's just part of the conversation at this point when a character like Geno that faces such a huge number of obstacles to inclusion and inherently limited appeal comes up.

 

[slrigeigdew]

Say what you will about ulterior motives, but if they weren't such a large request they would not be here.

I remember how people were absolutely convinced that because was in Smash meant that a B&K remake and Rare replay was coming to the Switch.
Still waiting on that Banjo Redooie.

 

[wynn728]

Say what you will about ulterior motives, but if they weren't such a large request they would not be here.

That's one out of five, which means fan request are of extremenlow priorities.

 

[RocksteadyBebop]

I mean, we do have almost 21 years of Smash history and countless articles and columns from Sakurai that express his thoughts and approaches to Smash. I understand that not everyone is interested in talking with regards to precedent and those things, but this community has always had an issue with deifying Sakurai and making him out to be some unpredictable force of nature

Correct, we do have a ton of articles. And in these articles we find that ideas and thoughts have changed. So just cause he says something doesn’t mean it’s true. Not saying he’s a liar. Sakurai is the furthest from that. BUT, he does change his mind a lot of figures out a way to make something work.

So it does actually work in my favor the Nintendo and Sakurai are unpredictable. Again, not saying speculation is bad, nor do I think disagreeing with peoples choices isn’t. It’s just that we have two very popular groups that get quite toxic with each other the moment conversation strikes.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Still waiting on that Banjo Redooie.

If they make a Banjo-Kazooie remake/remaster this had better be its name. Now that I've heard it I will never settle for anything less.

That's one out of five, which means fan request are of extremenlow priorities.

But not so low that they don't ever do them.

 

[Honest Slug]

That's one out of five, which means fan request are of extremenlow priorities.

Is anyone suggesting all 6 are gonna be fan requests?
The simple fact of the matter is some characters can be carried by fan demand, that doesn't mean the entire pass will be like that, but it's reasonable to assume that at least one will, and let's face it, we're running low on ballot-era fan demand picks.

Listen, I'm not saying Geno is guaranteed to be in, or even likely, but I feel like I'm in the movie Groundhog Day with all these arguments against other Ridley, K. Rool, Banjo, Snake etc. being touted again despite being disproved.

Not relevant?
Third Party would rather pick more relevant and important character?
Third Party is "Hard to work with" (Remember the discussions about how Erdrick couldn't make it because Dragon Quest has such complicated copyright? I remember)
Has already been rejected playable status multiple times

I have no idea what season 2 will entail, frankly it could be anyone, but I think we really need to move on from dead arguments.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

The minute I see somebody say:

1) “You can’t predict Sakurai!”
2) “AnYtHiNg CaN hApPeN1!”

I just begin to think that maybe folks don’t want to actually talk about the possibilities that characters actually have at being added to Smash, and that any opposition or discussion that puts a character in a less than favorable light upsets people which then makes this whole process cyclical.

Look, nobody likes when somebody says, “Bro, your most wanted isn’t getting into Smash!”, but not only has essentially nobody here said that, but there will eventually be a day when...yes, somebody’s most wanted won’t be in Smash. It’s simply a reality.

I won’t try and control what somebody talks about, but I’ll just say that it’s infinitely more interesting to discuss Smash precedent and how that applies to future picks than somebody suggesting something interesting that could describe the possibilities of a character and somebody responding, “No u! Don’t make my character look like they don’t have a good chance!”

I mean, at least come up with a good argument as to why the other point is wrong.

Eh, whatever. I’ll just be playing FFVII Remake.

 

[Cosmic77]

I could probably come up with a "the fanbase was wrong" argument for every character added in Ultimate.

Geno could get in Smash and prove a number of people in this thread wrong, but really, how hard is it to find a character who doesn't have something the fanbase considers to be holding them back? You know what Sora, a Gen 8 Pokemon, Steve, and Waluigi all have in common? Just like Geno, each of them has something that's seemingly stopping them from getting in according to fans.

We don't even know who F6 is, and it's already proven a lot of people wrong.

 

[Dragoncharystary]

I like how 2 years ago everyone was like "Obviously Banjo has no chance because Microsoft hasn't done anything with Banjo in 10 years, Steve would be the obvious pick." and now we're all like "Actually Microsoft deeply cares about a series that has been MIA since a mediocre 2008 racing game."

Seems like goalpost moving ngl.

Steve was a giant meme two years ago and no one would have taken you seriously if you suggested him.

Edit: It wasn't until Vergeben started picking up steam that Steve gained serious discussion. i.e. post E3 2018.