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Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

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Hero and Byleth all seemed pretty predictable. Hero because Erdrick was leaked months in advance and Byleth because everybody predicted at least one promo (plus Three Houses wasn't spirit deconfirmed).

Everybody else though? That **** caught me off guard.
 

Dark Bagel

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Guys why are you even wasting precious kinetic energy typing amidst this Dixie Kong debacle when the objectively best potential DK rep exists? That's right, the pinnacle of character design itself, the ultimate example of excellence across the ENTIRE expanse of video games as we know it...

That's right...

Make way for Kludge, baby.

1200px-KludgeJet~2.jpg


Guys, just stop now. It's never gonna get better than this, it's all downhill from here. Speculation ends with Kludge, the true visage of physical and metaphysical perfection. This is it guys.
 
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Guys why are you even wasting precious kinetic energy typing amidst this Dixie Kong debacle when the objectively best potential DK rep exists? That's right, the pinnacle of character design itself, the ultimate example of perfection across the ENTIRE expanse of video games as we know it...

That's right...

Make way for Kludge, baby.

View attachment 269635

Guys, just stop now. It's never gonna get better than this, it's all downhill from here. Speculation ends with Kludge, the true visage of physical and metaphysical perfection. This is it guys.
Can you tell me what Kludge does? I'm admittedly an ignorant heathen over epic gamer characters.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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Guys why are you even wasting precious kinetic energy typing amidst this Dixie Kong debacle when the objectively best potential DK rep exists? That's right, the pinnacle of character design itself, the ultimate example of perfection across the ENTIRE expanse of video games as we know it...

That's right...

Make way for Kludge, baby.

Guys, just stop now. It's never gonna get better than this, it's all downhill from here. Speculation ends with Kludge, the true visage of physical and metaphysical perfection. This is it guys.
I mean...I like the character design (probably because blue) so I wouldn't hate it...

...But y tho?
 

Rie Sonomura

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Does anyone else want this Second fighter pass to be more random? Granted, most of the stuff we predict/speculate never comes true around these parts, but I’m looking more for a pass of “hey didn’t expect that” for every reveal.

I guess to me, it doesn’t matter who gets in. I obviously have my “wants”, but I guess I’m more into the crap-shoot of it all.
All MY wants fall into the “didn’t expect that” category as they’re not the super popular picks that are often brought up, so yeah I’d want that
 

Dark Bagel

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Can you tell me what Kludge does? I'm admittedly an ignorant heathen over epic gamer characters.
Legends tell of the holy gospel of Donkey Kong: Barrel Blast, where he is a playable racer. Within this hallmark tale, Kludge exudes unfathomable amounts of grace and majesty simply by existing within the roster, but when he is selected within the game's menu, the player is said to die from the sheer sanctity of being able to play as a character as flawless and divine as the Kludged One, hallowed be thy name.
 
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He's a high speed, low acceleration character from Donkey Kong: Barrel Blast. He's Funky Kong's rival, and probably a part of the villainous team in that game. That's about it.
Legends tell of the holy gospel of Donkey Kong: Barrel Blast, where he is a playable racer. Within this hallmark tale, Kludge exudes unfathomable amounts of grace and majesty simply by existing within the roster, but when he is selected within the game's menu, the player is said to die from the sheer sanctity of being able to play as a character as flawless and divine as the Kludged One, hallowed be thy name.
Yeah. I think I'm a Kludge fan now. Put him in, chief.

 

Cosmic77

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Hero and Byleth all seemed pretty predictable. Hero because Erdrick was leaked months in advance and Byleth because everybody predicted at least one promo (plus Three Houses wasn't spirit deconfirmed).

Everybody else though? That **** caught me off guard.
If I'm being completely honest with myself, Hero was the only one that was predictable.

Byleth wasn't as obvious as people say. Even with the missing Spirits and everything, we had four third-parties in a row. We had gotten to a point where anyone who seriously thought the last character was first-party was living in denial. ARMS was even more unexpected because it already had content in Smash.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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If I'm being completely honest with myself, Hero was the only one that was predictable.

Byleth wasn't as obvious as people say. Even with the missing Spirits and everything, we had four third-parties in a row. We had gotten to a point where anyone who seriously thought the last character was first-party was living in denial. ARMS was even more unexpected because it already had content in Smash.
There were people expecting a "shill pick" but with that last Spirit Event, most people kinda assumed Fire Emblem: 3 Houses was next, thus making all first parties seem ineligible.
 
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If I'm being completely honest with myself, Hero was the only one that was predictable.

Byleth wasn't as obvious as people say. Even with the missing Spirits and everything, we had four third-parties in a row. We had gotten to a point where anyone who seriously thought the last character was first-party was living in denial. ARMS was even more unexpected because it already had content in Smash.
I get where you're coming from, but I always thought anybody who denied the possibility of a 1st party, no less Three Houses, were kind of asking to be proven wrong. I get it, because Three Houses isn't as "hype" as a third party for a multitude of factors. But it just seemed like an appropriate use of Murphy's Law after all of the deconfirmations that were happening. I thought the lack of a deconfirmation from a Nintendo character meant something.
 
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Garteam

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IMO, :ultzss: is a member of the "This character shouldn't be in Smash in a vacuum, but exceptional circumstances got them in once and it would be strange to remove them now" club with :ultjigglypuff:, :ultsheik:, and :ultroy:.
 

Evil Trapezium

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Mooooving on, after watching more MM randomizer, I'd love for Young Link to have different shields for his alts. Deku, Hylian, Mirror(MM) at least. Not sure on a last one, though. The Mirror Shield from OOT, since it's different, I guess? Not sure what alts to tie it to, though.

Like, obviously Young Link is based upon the OOT self, but he's clearly the same guy as the one from MM, so it's very easy to add this kind of stuff in. It's not the same as using a completely different Link etc. to remake a moveset.
It would have been cool to see the Gilded Sword in HD. I was thinking that if Young Link had a mirror shield, it would reflect projectiles back at opponents or maybe just fire based moves get reflected since it reflects sunlight.

Does anyone else want this Second fighter pass to be more random? Granted, most of the stuff we predict/speculate never comes true around these parts, but I’m looking more for a pass of “hey didn’t expect that” for every reveal.

I guess to me, it doesn’t matter who gets in. I obviously have my “wants”, but I guess I’m more into the crap-shoot of it all.
Considering we have an ARMs rep coming, that does lead this pass to become quite random.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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If I'm being completely honest with myself, Hero was the only one that was predictable.

Byleth wasn't as obvious as people say. Even with the missing Spirits and everything, we had four third-parties in a row. We had gotten to a point where anyone who seriously thought the last character was first-party was living in denial. ARMS was even more unexpected because it already had content in Smash.
I do agree about Byleth. It wasn't that obvious overall. It had a decent amount of guesses.

Hero not so much. People predicted Erdrick, but not Hero as a class(which is actually what Brave referred to). Very few actually got the idea of Hero correctly among their predictions, which is fair. It's actually a pretty unexpected idea, especially since it used someone else as the core character(Luminary) too. Erdrick was only partially off(due to Sakurai trying to get both Erdrick and Luminary in from the start), it just didn't account for the actual trends of the time or the latest game. Now, finding those who figured Solo would be in is even more difficult. Eight had some guessed too. It was mostly Erdrick(which as I noted, isn't really the actual playable character alone. Besides, Luminary was going to be there either way, so just saying it was Erdrick would still be off to some degree).

It would have been cool to see the Gilded Sword in HD. I was thinking that if Young Link had a mirror shield, it would reflect projectiles back at opponents or maybe just fire based moves get reflected since it reflects sunlight.
A costume can't have a major gameplay difference like that, but you could have the effect look visually different. Like it shining or something to give the idea it's kind of like reflecting. That or just give the Mirror Shield to all.

I prefer the Razor Sword myself. There's a lot of swords either way. Kokiri, Master, Biggoron's, Goron's Knife, Razor, Gilded, Great Fairy's. I guess a Zora blade for the last one to have 8 unique ones?
 

Cosmic77

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I get where you're coming from, but I always thought anybody who denied the possibility of a 1st party, no less Three Houses, were kind of asking to be proven wrong. I get it, because Three Houses isn't as "hype" as a third party for a multitude of factors. But it just seemed like an appropriate use of Murphy's Law after all of the deconfirmations that were happening. I thought the lack of a deconfirmation from a Nintendo character meant something.
I never believed it either, but this thread was an echo chamber of "Onlythird-parties!Onlythird-parties!Onlythird-parties!" for pretty much all of 2019. November through early January 2020 consisted of many discussions of whether or not Capcom or Namco would get the final spot. Characters frequently brought up included Crash, Geno, Doomguy, KOS-MOS, Dante, and...well, most of the characters we had been discussing since before DLC started.

I'm glad people were wrong about first-parties, but not many people genuinely believed they'd end the pass with a first-party. The poll we had in December that asked which company would get the last character? Namco and Capcom made up almost two-thirds of the vote.
 
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Guynamednelson

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I don't even get why someone's FP predictions would include Geno alongside a bunch of third-party icons. He isn't exactly the same as Dante or Crash when he's a Mario character, just one harder and more expensive to feature.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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Hero not so much. People predicted Erdrick, but not Hero as a class(which is actually what Brave referred to).
Ironically, people did make the connection from "brave" to "yusha" to "hero", but then tied it back to Erdrick, as he was sometimes referred to as simply, "the hero".

I don't even get why someone's FP predictions would include Geno alongside a bunch of third-party icons. He isn't exactly the same as Dante or Crash when he's a Mario character, just one harder and more expensive to feature.
He's like Banjo & Kazooie: beloved, but not important. Will he be added? Only the devs and their associates know.
 
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I never believed it either, but this thread was an echo chamber of "Onlythird-parties!Onlythird-parties!Onlythird-parties!" for pretty much all of 2019. November through early January 2020 consisted of many discussions of whether or not Capcom or Namco would get the final spot. Characters frequently brought up included Crash, Geno, Doomguy, KOS-MOS, Dante, and...well, most of the characters we had been discussing since before DLC started.

I'm glad people were wrong about first-parties, but not many people genuinely believed they'd end the pass with a first-party. The poll we had in December that asked which company would get the last character? Namco and Capcom made up almost two-thirds of the vote.
"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect." - Mark Twain

That was pretty much me throughout the second half of FP 5 speculation lmao.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Ironically, people did make the connection from "brave" to "yusha" to "hero", but then tied it back to Erdrick, as he was sometimes referred to as simply, "the hero".
Which is funny, because it was never a code name. That's the literal character name to begin with.

The tie to it wasn't entirely wrong, just the overall conclusion.
 

Guynamednelson

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He's like Banjo & Kazooie: beloved, but not important. Will he be added? Only the devs and their associates know.
True, but it feels like the demand for Banjo and Geno is being reduced to who owns them, even though their fanbases would prefer if they were filthy Nintendo characters.
 

chocolatejr9

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True, but it feels like the demand for Banjo and Geno is being reduced to who owns them, even though their fanbases would prefer if they were filthy Nintendo characters.
Have we ever established why Geno ISN'T owned by Nintendo though? I've always been confused about that.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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Have we ever established why Geno ISN'T owned by Nintendo though? I've always been confused about that.
I believe the game was mostly developed by Squaresoft, or there was at least an agreement where the Mario IP belonged to Nintendo, but any character designs, music, and the like that were created by Squaresoft would belong to Squaresoft. The two companies later had a falling out, and that's why Paper Mario was Paper Mario and not Super Mario RPG 2.
 

Evil Trapezium

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A costume can't have a major gameplay difference like that, but you could have the effect look visually different. Like it shining or something to give the idea it's kind of like reflecting. That or just give the Mirror Shield to all.

I prefer the Razor Sword myself. There's a lot of swords either way. Kokiri, Master, Biggoron's, Goron's Knife, Razor, Gilded, Great Fairy's. I guess a Zora blade for the last one to have 8 unique ones?
The Giant's Knife is the same as the Biggoron's sword so that'd be kind of redundant. You could give him the Koholint Sword from Link's Awakening or the Fierce Deity Sword. Just make them as short as the Kokiri Sword and it should look fine.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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True, but it feels like the demand for Banjo and Geno is being reduced to who owns them, even though their fanbases would prefer if they were filthy Nintendo characters.
I dunno about the first part, but the second part is mostly because Banjo-Kazooie: Nuts & Bolts was an awful Banjo-Kazooie game, and SquareEnix does absolutely nothing with the Super Mario RPG assets they own.

EDIT: It's likely a dream scenario with the premise of "if Nintendo owned them they would still be in use" which would likely be true for Geno and the gang, but not necessarily true for Banjo & Kazooie.
 
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Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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The Giant's Knife is the same as the Biggoron's sword so that'd be kind of redundant. You could give him the Koholint Sword from Link's Awakening or the Fierce Deity Sword. Just make them as short as the Kokiri Sword and it should look fine.
I meant only OOT/MM swords. And the Goron's Knife is technically weaker, and can get broken, but yeah, same enough design. Fierce Deity Sword works, though. Besides, YL should have a Fierce Deity design either way. He is the original Mask user, heh. There's other swords from the games, too. Maybe one of those for an 8th sword. That or just a darker color of the Master Sword for his Dark Link costume?
 

SKX31

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Have we ever established why Geno ISN'T owned by Nintendo though? I've always been confused about that.
I did a writeup on SMRPG's character designers here. Most of the SMRPG staff are or were Square affilitrated (one of them went on to do KH3), so thats where things tangle.

And: While Geno's in the game as a 4-Star Spirit, he (alongside Rayman and Shantae) would have to be renegotiated for because they'd headline Challenger Packs. It's probably much easier to renegotiate internal stuff (e.g. ARMS if it turns out to be Spring Man / Ribbon girl) than stuff owned by third party devs. Not impossible mind, but probably very difficult.
 
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I don't even get why someone's FP predictions would include Geno alongside a bunch of third-party icons. He isn't exactly the same as Dante or Crash when he's a Mario character, just one harder and more expensive to feature.
Popularity. If that's what brought Banjo & Kazooie back, then it could bring Geno back. The fact that Sakurai even went out of his way last game to get a mii costume shows that Sakurai at least acknowledges him.

Now the two obviously aren't the same, but we could be surprised. I mean, we got K. Rool, Ridley, and Banjo & Kazooie now on XBox One. Geno isn't even that controversial an idea anymore.
 

Wunderwaft

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If Nintendo is gonna go for a fan favorite character among Nintendo fans then I think Waluigi is higher on the totem pole compared to Geno.
 

Kotor

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How do people feel about Sylux and Porky's chances? Both seem like notable absences from the spirit list, as I'm sure has been discussed, but now throwing around Nintendo 1st party focus and potential promotional characters (Byleth, Arms, BotW 2, Pokemon DLC) is there still a place for these two in the 1st party choice list? Is it dependent on the Prime 4 schedule and the (hopefully coming someday) Mother remasters, or is there potential for them without these things?
Bottom-of-the-barrel picks especially Sylux with his only claim to fame is "He's gonna be relevant one day, you guys. Just you wait!" Seriously, I cannot think of a more overhyped pick than a random bounty hunter who wasn't even the ring leader leading the other hunters in his debut game. He did nothing in Prime 3 except stalk Samus in the ending (provided you 100% otherwise he no shows), and steal a metroid in the ending assuming you did a bonus objective from one of the missions from Federation Force. And yet, people hype him he up to be the main antagonist of a game that had to restart development. Could Sylux still appear in Prime 4? Maybe, but I'd rather wait until an official trailer or official info is released than delude myself to thinking his role is guaranteed.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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If Nintendo is gonna go for a fan favorite character among Nintendo fans then I think Waluigi is higher on the totem pole compared to Geno.
Imagine Challenger Pack 10 & Challenger Pack 11: Double reveal of Geno and Waluigi.

I don't know exactly what the reaction would be, but it'd definitely be wild.

Bottom-of-the-barrel picks especially Sylux with his only claim to fame is "He's gonna be relevant one day, you guys. Just you wait!"
I wouldn't call Porky a bottom of the barrel pick in relation to the Earthbound series. He's quite important to it. Does the Earthbound series warrant a 3rd rep? Well that's more debatable.

He really isn’t.
He really is. Perhaps a more niche version of the situation, but a similar situation nonetheless.
 
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This is a bit random and probably should've been posted way sooner than now, but I don't think it would come to a surprise if the reason an ARMS character was the very first DLC for Vol 2 was because Sakurai develops the characters with more complex mechanics first. I imagine the concept around an ARMS character would take a lot of time to develop and balance, so it would make a whole lot of sense to develop them sooner rather than later. Now, whether if the next character to come after FP6 will have more complex mechanics to work with or not has yet to be seen, but for now, I can certainly believe the more complex characters get developed before the simpler characters do.
 

Wunderwaft

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Imagine Challenger Pack 10 & Challenger Pack 11: Double reveal of Geno and Waluigi.

I don't know exactly what the reaction would be, but it'd definitely be wild.
It would most certainly appeal to a wide part of the core fanbase.
I mean, hey, if I get Waluigi I ain't complaining. So far I haven't gotten any of my most wanted characters as DLC so if I get my number one most wanted that would be the dream.
 
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PeridotGX

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I'm gonna laugh if Sylux gets in. Metroid would essentially be in the same position as FE in Smash 4 (minus :4feroy:, who can't be substituted by a Metroid character for obvious reasons).

Smash 4: A unique FE character and a clone in the base game. Another unique as DLC.

Ultimate: A unique Metroid character and a clone in the base game. another unique as DLC.
 

Kotor

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Hero and Byleth all seemed pretty predictable. Hero because Erdrick was leaked months in advance and Byleth because everybody predicted at least one promo (plus Three Houses wasn't spirit deconfirmed).

Everybody else though? That **** caught me off guard.
Byleth seemed predictable.... for Fighters Pass 2. Everyone convinced themselves that the first pass would all be Third Party. I don't think many people seriously considered the fifth fighter to actually be a Nintendo character after many talked about third party picks were turned down. Astral Chain was also in a similar predicament with it not getting a Spirits event around its release until January. With Byleth's mixed reaction, I wouldn't be surprised if there were people secretly hoping for a Three Houses Spirits event so they can happily disconfirm everyone from Three Houses from ever getting a fighter to Smash
 

Wunderwaft

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This is a bit random and probably should've been posted way sooner than now, but I don't think it would come to a surprise if the reason an ARMS character was the very first DLC for Vol 2 was because Sakurai develops the characters with more complex mechanics first. I imagine the concept around an ARMS character would take a lot of time to develop and balance, so it would make a whole lot of sense to develop them sooner rather than later. Now, whether if the next character to come after FP6 will have more complex mechanics to work with or not has yet to be seen, but for now, I can certainly believe the more complex characters get developed before the simpler characters do.
Terry is literally more complex than every other fighter in the fighters pass and he was fighter number four. I don't think the placement has to do with how hard they are to develop.
 

Cosmic77

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Geno is one of those characters I'll never fully understand. Even in the context of Mario spin-off characters, I doubt he'd be in my top 10 if I made a list. He just feels...so incredibly random and out of place.

For the record, I've played SMRPG several times, so it's not a matter of me being unfamiliar with him and what he could do in Smash.
 
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Byleth seemed predictable.... for Fighters Pass 2. Everyone convinced themselves that the first pass would all be Third Party. I don't think many people seriously considered the fifth fighter to actually be a Nintendo character after many talked about third party picks were turned down. Astral Chain was also in a similar predicament with it not getting a Spirits event around its release until January. With Byleth's mixed reaction, I wouldn't be surprised if there were people secretly hoping for a Three Houses Spirits event so they can happily disconfirm everyone from Three Houses from ever getting a fighter to Smash
Completely unrelated but I really appreciate your avatar.
 
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