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Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

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PSIGuy

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The thing that concerns me about Fire Emblem's reception by the smash community (purely generalising, of course) is that no-one has a problem with Dark Samus literally having no moves from her source material and purely having different animations, due to their limited development (which I understand :3) but having Fire Emblem characters at all, regardless of their originality, is an unspeakable crime.

Furthermore, I think it's a shame that the ultimate crossover originally intended for Nintendo fans gets so much hate when Nintendo characters are added. Yes, this is a rant, for which I apologise, but wasn't it amazing when we were all excited for Ridley, regardless of whether or not we were fans of the character, his series, or even the memes? I... kinda miss that, because when DLC started rolling around, loads more people seemed openly disappointed, even angry, with some of the picks... I feel like it kinda hurts. Is this just me?
You're equating two completely different things in both your statements here. People not being upset at Dark Samus (for being a cheap and easy way to flesh out representation for a series with few characters) has nothing to do with people disliking Fire Emblem newcomers (for being more plentiful than rabbits when spring breaks).

Likewise, Ridley's reception has nothing to do with being a Nintendo character and everything to do with being a heavily requested fan-demand. You get that community spirit when the community is happy, which you get by listening TO the community. Banjo-Kazooie and K. Rool also got a similar reaction because they were fan requests.

Having more Fire Emblem characters isn't an unspeakable crime, it's just... boring. It's literally a dead horse that was beaten to death even before Byleth was added and then it was brought back as an undead vampire zombie ninja werewolf horse to be beaten to undeath. You got plenty of Byleth memes, like a dozen variants on HOES MAD. Originality in movesets means jack all when the appeal of the game is "icon crossover", so when people don't like the icons being crossed over they don't like the game.

EDIT: Also, throwing it out there; I still hate Wario's moveset barely referencing Land and wish they added more from the series than just the shoulderbash. Making his grounded moveset reference Land more and then keeping all the wacky stuff for his aerials and specials would be fine and help reinforce his bizarre air properties. Just because people don't constantly bring up complaints they might have like Dark Samus's moveset doesn't mean they don't have them. BELIEVE ME, I could post on every page in this thread from now on about why I feel Wario Land is important enough to deserve XYZ until the next newcomer trailer.
 
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RetrogamerMax

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people be saying dark samus didn't have any other choice and then go ape**** when someone tells them dixie kong is in the same boat :239:
I honestly think Dixie Kong shouldn't be a Echo as it would give more people the impression she is just girl Diddy when she is not. Her whole gimmick involves around her hair and if you take that away you don't really have Dixie Kong.
 

Will

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I honestly think Dark Samus shouldn't be a Echo as it would give more people the impression she is just evil Samus when she is not. Her whole gimmick involves around her Phazon and if you take that away you don't really have Dark Samus.
See? Same ****, different story. :nifty:
 

Evil Trapezium

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I honestly think Dixie Kong shouldn't be a Echo as it would give more people the impression she is just girl Diddy when she is not. Her whole gimmick involves around her hair and if you take that away you don't really have Dixie Kong.
Who cares what people see her as? If you like the character then that should be good enough. We have Terry who plays entirely different to Ken but is still referred to as Hat Ken so her having a completely different moveset to Diddy wouldn't change how people view her.
 
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RetrogamerMax

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Who cares if people see her as Girl Diddy? If you like the character then that's good enough. We have Terry who plays entirely different to Ken but is still referred to as Hat Ken so her having a completely different moveset to Diddy wouldn't change how people view her.
Making Dixie a Echo would be the worst thing since turning Ganondorf into a clone/semi-clone of Captain Falcon. A mistake like that shouldn't be repeated again especially with a big character such as Dixie.
 

Will

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I would say Dixie Kong is of higher caliber because of being the 3rd biggest protagonist in DKC behind DK and Diddy. DKC3 was literally her game she was the star of that game.
Dude, the entire Metroid Prime Trilogy is centered around Dark Samus the character as she is the namesake Metroid Prime. She's even the final boss of all three games in the trilogy. "Higher caliber" my ass.

That's true but DKC is a bigger franchise than Metroid. Dixie Kong was the protagonist in her own game DKC3 as well as the co-protagonist in DKC2 and DKCTF.
Okay, but her "popularity" isn't the point. No one wants an Echo if they have the choice to not be one, but if they should be one, it will save a lot of development time to go with that process. Dixie Kong is, in terms of making a character model, 90% Diddy. From a technical and development standpoint, Echo Dixie Kong is the move.
 

osby

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I honestly take clone Dixie Kong over no Dixie Kong, but every time I say this her fans yell at me, so: :drshrug:
 
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RetrogamerMax

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Dude, the entire Metroid Prime Trilogy is centered around Dark Samus the character as she is the namesake Metroid Prime. She's even the final boss of all three games in the trilogy. "Higher caliber" my ass.
Like I said:

That's true but DKC is a bigger franchise than Metroid. Dixie Kong was the protagonist in her own game DKC3 as well as the co-protagonist in DKC2 and DKCTF.
Okay, but her "popularity" isn't the point. No one wants an Echo if they have the choice to not be one, but if they should be one, it will save a lot of development time to go with that process. Dixie Kong is, in terms of making a character model, 90% Diddy. From a technical and development standpoint, Echo Dixie Kong is the move.
It doesn't have to be. Ganondorf being the 2nd most iconic Nintendo villain shouldn't have been a Captain Falcon clone/semi-clone in the first place.
 

Will

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Making Dixie a Echo would be the worst thing since turning Ganondorf into a clone/semi-clone of Captain Falcon. A mistake like that shouldn't be repeated again especially with a big character such as Dixie.
It doesn't have to be. Ganondorf being the 2nd most iconic Nintendo villain shouldn't have been a Captain Falcon clone/semi-clone in the first place.
If she was so big and so important to Nintendo's arsenal of characters, she would've clearly already been a character by now. :p I don't intend to disrespect you, but my point only shines brighter the more this one specific character is constantly paraded as something bigger than herself.

It didn't have to be that way with Chrom, Dark Samus, or Daisy, and at the end of the day, who prospered? Isabelle did, obviously.

Of course, this debate is still only in the perspective of pre-release speculation.
I honestly take clone Dixie Kong over no Dixie Kong, but every time I say this her fans yell at me, so: :drshrug:
Even Shadow fans were being more open to the idea by the end of speculation, Dixie fans still clinging onto the ideology is legitimately baffling to me.
 
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Cutie Gwen

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That's true but DKC is a bigger franchise than Metroid. Dixie Kong was the protagonist in her own game DKC3 as well as the co-protagonist in DKC2 and DKCTF.
This still doesn't magically prove how it's completely ok for a freaky eldritch horror with several unique abilities including tentacles to get reduced to mere clone while girl monkey being an echo of boy monkey is an unforgiveable sin
 

Trevenant

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Making Dixie a Echo would be the worst thing since turning Ganondorf into a clone/semi-clone of Captain Falcon. A mistake like that shouldn't be repeated again especially with a big character such as Dixie.
That is way too extreme of an over exaggeration. At least Dixie could feasibly use Diddy's moveset as they are actually related and share most of the tools. Dixie uses a popgun, the side b is basically made up for Diddy anyway, seeing Dixie pull out a banana skin wouldn't be the weirdest thing to see in the world at all and the up b could easily be Chromd and look like DKs but spinning her hair instead of her whole body like how Chrom doesn't throw his sword up like Ike.

Ganondorf on the other hand is based on a character whose moveset is entirely made up and who uses solely melee based attacks. They have no relation to each other, melee attacks being the entire moveset doesn't make as much sense as being melee and magic and the moveset imo just generally doesn't fit Ganondorf. Falcon drove a car while Ganondorf most commonly used ranged attacks and could not be more different aside from structure and are from distinct series so that's what I'm getting at.
 

RetrogamerMax

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If she was so big and so important to Nintendo's arsenal of characters, she would've clearly already been a character by now. :p I don't intend to disrespect you, but my point only shines brighter the more this one specific character is constantly paraded as something bigger than herself.

It didn't have to be that way with Chrom, Dark Samus, or Daisy, and at the end of the day, who prospered? Isabelle did, obviously.

Of course, this debate is still only in the perspective of pre-release speculation.
Just like K. Rool she should have been in a long time ago. DKC was Rare's biggest franchise and Rare was a big and important figure for Nintendo during the late 90s.
 
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Will

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Just like K. Rool she should have been in a long time ago. DKC was Rare's biggest franchise and Rare was a big and important figure for Nintendo during the late 90s.
Sure, but you're telling me they would pass up the chance to make her an Echo of Diddy? To waste development time just because Sakurai's in his chair thinking "If I do this, I will spit in the face of best-selling iconic mascot Dixie Kong and ruin the entire game!"? Seems a bit extreme, man. You do you, though.
 
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Cutie Gwen

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Just like K. Rool she should have been in a long time ago. DKC was Rare's biggest franchise and Rare was a big and important figure for Nintendo during the late 90s.
Likewise Dark Samus was when Metroid peaked yet when Sakurai felt he should add another Metroid character during said peak with the next installment coming very soon he chose Samus Without Power Suit instead of a character people liked
 

RetrogamerMax

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Sure, but you're telling me they would pass up the chance to make her an Echo of Diddy? To waste development time just because Sakurai's in his chair thinking "If I do this, I will spit in the face of best-selling iconic mascot Dixie Kong and ruin the entire game!"? Seems a bit extreme, man. You do you, though.
I'm done talking to the clique now bye.
 

Will

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I'm done talking to the clique now bye.
Was it something I said? :drshrug:

Likewise Dark Samus was when Metroid peaked yet when Sakurai felt he should add another Metroid character during said peak with the next installment coming very soon he chose Samus Without Power Suit instead of a character people liked
He had to shill that Final Smash mechanic somehow. I remember being able to change into ZSS without using items in Brawl but I was never able to pull it off.
 

Evil Trapezium

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Making Dixie a Echo would be the worst thing since turning Ganondorf into a clone/semi-clone of Captain Falcon. A mistake like that shouldn't be repeated again especially with a big character such as Dixie.
Dixie doesn't really a lot different to Diddy Kong to really warrant a completely different moveset though. The most that would probably need to be changed is her Neutral Special, Up Special, Dash Attack and Final Smash so she'd essentially be like Ken levels of an echo fighter. Other than that they have the same body type, run on all fours and have the same kind of limbs to do the exact same attacks as each other.
 

Will

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Honestly this is reminding me of the time where hardcore DK fans insisted that the DK cast having realistic animal noises like in the trilogy was a slap to the face and evidence that Sakurai loathes Donkey Kong
I like the animalistic noises a lot more than what we had originally in the 90's and early 2000's. And I'm not talking about Kirkhope, he's fine.


What. the. ****. am I listening to? His Super Star voice line sounds like he's about to drop some fire beats.
 
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Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Funny thing about Ganondorf is we would've probably gotten the WW or TP one separately in Brawl if he wasn't in Melee. Neither are heavily about magic, and barely use it. WW Ganondorf's literal usage of magic was "transform into Puppet Ganon", who is more magical-oriented. TP Ganondorf's usage of magic was a cutscene piece or two, but entirely focused on physical blows. OOT Ganondorf is the only real magic user among Ganondorfs, and range wasn't even it. He still dealt with physical blows as a character. He also turned into the only version of Ganon who had zero projectiles and focused on physical blows too. The idea Ganondorf is only "projectile magic" is extremely misleading. Physical stuff has always been a part of who he is from the start. Let's not confuse him with Agnahim, who inspired the creation of Ganondorf's design. Also, when Ganondorf's own artwork has him literally doing an overhead punch at Link, as well as him using a literal earthquake move that heavily resembles Warlock Punch's concept too(just the direction used is different).

And here's a kicker; OOT is the sole usage of Dead Man's Volley(which was unnamed till Phantom Hourglass coined it too) by Ganondorf himself. If he got in Brawl first, there's a tiny chance he would've incorporated it as Toon Ganondorf. Being he made Phantom Ganon, that'd make sense. But he's also way way faster and mostly a boxer in some terms of his canon abilities. He also does a chokehold quite easily(the one in Brawl resembles TP Ganondorf's chokehold, though the fire effect is new). If it was TP Ganondorf, he wouldn't even have a projectile. Because it has nothing to do with that incarnation. He even uses his Sword of the Sages correctly, as a stabbing tool. He's not a finesse based character to begin with, so it makes sense why Brawl/4 didn't utilize it as a normal weapon like Ultimate does(using his tech demo Broadsword).

Whether he was a clone or not, expecting him to be highly projectile-based is not likely at all. The clone thing isn't why. It's because that's not remotely Ganondorf's design. He's a physical badass in all incarnations, moreso in WW/TP. Even his Brawl self became far more accurate at that point. Overall, the only two moves he does that's really out there is Dark Dive(when he teleports generally, in either Ganon or Ganondorf form), and Wizard's Foot(and this one still somewhat fits by the fact he can absolutely gather magic into a part of his body and use it as a physical blow. That's how he literally did his earthquake punch). The idea he's completely off from canon is very misleading. That doesn't mean he's perfect either. He just... really had no chance to be projectile-based because he was handled differently past OOT, being a physical badass as his core design. You could argue Melee suggested that, but the Tech Demo suggests otherwise. Also, Ganondorf uses more magic in his moveset than he does in WW or TP specifically. That's saying something. He's absolutely a wizard, but they didn't focus on that technically speaking. He's more focused on Triforce of Power. This actually seems to fit when represented the trio. One is power, one is courage(which always seems to be "multiple weapon choices", apparently. That or that's just the core point of Link), and "wisdom" apparently means magic instead. This even fits the 3 Goddess spells pretty well. Din's Fire is a power move more or less(except against a tiny few enemies who gain benefits from it). Farore's Wind is about utility(which heavily fits Link's weapon selection), and Nayru's Love is a defensive move that focuses the most on magic usage(which fits Zelda pretty well. And she's more of a magical monk than Ganondorf is, funnily enough). Besides, Zelda uses tons of moves that she could never do in the games. Ganondorf still uses moves that resembles his own, and now a sword, something he didn't have in OOT anyway(but it's the only game design where it works, due to the tech demo using OOT Ganondorf's design).

Obviously not everybody has to be pleased with the moveset. But it's absolutely based upon his characterization and some of his official Nintendo-related moves, whether artwork or otherwise. That continues to this day.

As for Dixie, she could reuse Donkey Kong's Spinning Kong from what I understand, which is kind of the only problematic move or needed move at best. The rest are easy to retool from Diddy Kong(who no longer uses his tail). She can work as a Chrom-esque echo, including perhaps a slight bit of damage/range differences. She could work as a semi-clone fine too. Both are valid. She'd have good taunts either way. The only thing I feel would suck is the lack of throws using her hair, but for the most part, that's kind of... it for missing moves I feel. Doing that, she'd be more along the lines of Ken. I don't think she's coming for the Pass, mind you, but I'm doubting she'd get beyond Echo, and I doubt we'd have those in the Pass(it's not officially stated, but it's a pretty reasonable opinion based upon how much time they're generally taking to make characters. Semi-clone, maybe? If so, I think she has a fair chance for the pass. I know it's circular reasoning to a degree, but I sadly don't have a lot of hope for her at this point).
 
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Will

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*irene flexes ganondorf knowledge*
I wonder if Breath of the Wild's sequel is gonna have any effect on Ganon in the next Smash game. We know so goddamn little about the game that's supposedly still coming out at the end of this year. honestly i'm surprised they haven't announced a delay by now
 

3BitSaurus

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See? Same ****, different story. :nifty:
Nah, you're comparing apples and oranges here. Dixie is a protagonist, with actual mechanical abilities exclusive to her in the DKC series. Compared to that, Dark Samus is a non-playable character whose main gimmick (Phazon) can be reasonably represented through different animations and elemental properties. Part of why the current moveset doesn't fit DS is also because Samus' moveset barely fits her in the first place and she plays nothing like she does in Metroid games. So before reworking DS, you'd have to rework Samus regardless.

With Dixie, even if she was an Echo, you'd have to give her something like a different grab or up special to better represent the character. Otherwise, it'd basically be a similar case to Roy or Ganondorf, whose "clone-ability" was prioritized in total detriment of their character.

Dude, the entire Metroid Prime Trilogy is centered around Dark Samus the character as she is the namesake Metroid Prime. She's even the final boss of all three games in the trilogy. "Higher caliber" my ass.
Main antagonist =//= playable character who is the protagonist of her own game and appears in spinoffs relatively often (like the Mario ones). Again, apples and oranges.

If she was so big and so important to Nintendo's arsenal of characters, she would've clearly already been a character by now.
I mean, neither is Toad, who is arguably bigger than a good chunk of the first-party cast. So that point is pretty much moot.

Honestly, I get wanting characters to be reworked and even think that should be a big thing in the future of the Smash series, but you're just coming off as saying "if the character I like wasn't considered good enough for a separate slot, neither should others".
 
D

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Man this debate really boils down to
"It sucks"
"But it can happen."
"But it sucks."
"Wont matter if it happens."
"You suck."
"And your argument sucking happened."
 
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Trevenant

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Funny thing about Ganondorf is we would've probably gotten the WW or TP one separately in Brawl if he wasn't in Melee. Neither are heavily about magic, and barely use it. WW Ganondorf's literal usage of magic was "transform into Puppet Ganon", who is more magical-oriented. TP Ganondorf's usage of magic was a cutscene piece or two, but entirely focused on physical blows. OOT Ganondorf is the only real magic user among Ganondorfs, and range wasn't even it. He still dealt with physical blows as a character. He also turned into the only version of Ganon who had zero projectiles and focused on physical blows too. The idea Ganondorf is only "projectile magic" is extremely misleading. Physical stuff has always been a part of who he is from the start. Let's not confuse him with Agnahim, who inspired the creation of Ganondorf's design. Also, when Ganondorf's own artwork has him literally doing an overhead punch at Link, as well as him using a literal earthquake move that heavily resembles Warlock Punch's concept too(just the direction used is different).

And here's a kicker; OOT is the sole usage of Dead Man's Volley(which was unnamed till Phantom Hourglass coined it too) by Ganondorf himself. If he got in Brawl first, there's a tiny chance he would've incorporated it as Toon Ganondorf. Being he made Phantom Ganon, that'd make sense. But he's also way way faster and mostly a boxer in some terms of his canon abilities. He also does a chokehold quite easily(the one in Brawl resembles TP Ganondorf's chokehold, though the fire effect is new). If it was TP Ganondorf, he wouldn't even have a projectile. Because it has nothing to do with that incarnation. He even uses his Sword of the Sages correctly, as a stabbing tool. He's not a finesse based character to begin with, so it makes sense why Brawl/4 didn't utilize it as a normal weapon like Ultimate does(using his tech demo Broadsword).

Whether he was a clone or not, expecting him to be highly projectile-based is not likely at all. The clone thing isn't why. It's because that's not remotely Ganondorf's design. He's a physical badass in all incarnations, moreso in WW/TP. Even his Brawl self became far more accurate at that point. Overall, the only two moves he does that's really out there is Dark Dive(when he teleports generally, in either Ganon or Ganondorf form), and Wizard's Foot(and this one still somewhat fits by the fact he can absolutely gather magic into a part of his body and use it as a physical blow. That's how he literally did his earthquake punch). The idea he's completely off from canon is very misleading. That doesn't mean he's perfect either. He just... really had no chance to be projectile-based because he was handled differently past OOT, being a physical badass as his core design. You could argue Melee suggested that, but the Tech Demo suggests otherwise. Also, Ganondorf uses more magic in his moveset than he does in WW or TP specifically. That's saying something. He's absolutely a wizard, but they didn't focus on that technically speaking. He's more focused on Triforce of Power. This actually seems to fit when represented the trio. One is power, one is courage(which always seems to be "multiple weapon choices", apparently. That or that's just the core point of Link), and "wisdom" apparently means magic instead. This even fits the 3 Goddess spells pretty well. Din's Fire is a power move more or less(except against a tiny few enemies who gain benefits from it). Farore's Wind is about utility(which heavily fits Link's weapon selection), and Nayru's Love is a defensive move that focuses the most on magic usage(which fits Zelda pretty well. And she's more of a magical monk than Ganondorf is, funnily enough). Besides, Zelda uses tons of moves that she could never do in the games. Ganondorf still uses moves that resembles his own, and now a sword, something he didn't have in OOT anyway(but it's the only game design where it works, due to the tech demo using OOT Ganondorf's design).

Obviously not everybody has to be pleased with the moveset. But it's absolutely based upon his characterization and some of his official Nintendo-related moves, whether artwork or otherwise. That continues to this day.
Yeah I tried to make sure people wouldn't misinterpret what I said as that he should be purely magic. I'm fully aware he shouldn't be. But he used magic nowhere in his set. And my point was less 'give ganondorf an overhaul' than it was 'saying Dixie being a diddy clone is as bad as Dorf being based on F Zero guy whose moveset is already made up completely anyway is a bit of an over exaggeration '. Those two are canonically related whether she be his cousin, girlfriend, sister or whatever you have and have been shown to share similar abilities or they'd fit perfectly fine with Dixie
 

Will

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With Dixie, even if she was an Echo, you'd have to give her something like a different grab or up special to better represent the character. Otherwise, it'd basically be a similar case to Roy or Ganondorf, whose "clone-ability" was prioritized in total detriment of their character.
I agree. I wasn't saying she should keep a jetpack or a peanut popgun, rather that Dixie Kong can definitely work as an Echo and would likely be one if the developers had decided to make her playable.

Main antagonist =//= playable character who is the protagonist of her own game and appears in spinoffs relatively often (like the Mario ones). Again, apples and oranges.
Eh, that's an opinionated subject, I'll just leave it be.

but you're just coming off as saying "if the character I like wasn't considered good enough for a separate slot, neither should others".
Nah, that argument wouldn't make sense coming from me, we already got Isabelle and I vehemently didn't want her. :nifty: I already got proven wrong there.
 

Cutie Gwen

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Man this debate really boils down to
"It sucks"
"But it can happen."
"But it sucks."
"Wont matter if it happens."
"You suck."
"And your argument sucking happened."
What makes it worse for me personally is that I have no strong feelings on how Dixie would be implemented as a fighter, can't believe I ended up being a centrist about this smh
 
D

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What makes it worse for me personally is that I have no strong feelings on how Dixie would be implemented as a fighter, can't believe I ended up being a centrist about this smh
I already got King K. Rool. Dixie would just be a bonus for me no matter what.
 

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I agree. I wasn't saying she should keep a jetpack or a peanut popgun, rather that Dixie Kong can definitely work as an Echo and would likely be one if the developers had decided to make her playable.
Eh, I guess she can work in that way, especially due to having a similar build to Diddy (which I think may have been a defining factor with Isabelle not being a Villager Echo). That said, I don't really see it happening in DLC (as in, if Dixie was somehow DLC, chances are she would be a semiclone at the very least).

If they ever rework Diddy, Sakurai could try to implement the tag team mechanic he wanted to in Brawl and add Dixie as part of it. Duke of Dorks did an interesting video on that subject.
 
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Will

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Eh, I guess she can work in that way, especially due to having a similar build to Diddy (which I think may have been a defining factor with Isabelle not being a Villager Echo). That said, I don't really see it happening in DLC (as in, if Dixie was somehow DLC, chances are she would be a semiclone at the very least).
Of course, this debate is still only in the perspective of pre-release speculation.
If they ever rework Diddy, Sakurai could try to implement the tag team mechanic he wanted to in Brawl and add Dixie as part of it. Duke of Dorks did an interesting video on that subject.
That's an interesting concept I've heard a few times before. Makes me want team Final Smash attacks.
 

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Yeah I tried to make sure people wouldn't misinterpret what I said as that he should be purely magic. I'm fully aware he shouldn't be. But he used magic nowhere in his set. And my point was less 'give ganondorf an overhaul' than it was 'saying Dixie being a diddy clone is as bad as Dorf being based on F Zero guy whose moveset is already made up completely anyway is a bit of an over exaggeration '. Those two are canonically related whether she be his cousin, girlfriend, sister or whatever you have and have been shown to share similar abilities or they'd fit perfectly fine with Dixie
He uses magic within his moveset, though? He literally channels magic into his attacks, which boosts their massive power. Stuff like his overhead punch is a physical blow. Warlock Punch is literally a magical punch. Lightning Punch, his basic A, is a magically-enhanced punch. You could argue the others are darkness, but electricity is one of his magical abilities too. That's literally what Dead Man's Volley is as a move.

Let's remember that enhancing your physical attacks via magic has been a thing since Dungeons & Dragons. There's a difference between not heavily using magic(now that is true), and not literally using it. Projectiles is not what Magic is. There's tons of ways to wield magic, and Ganondorf has always done so in Smash. So basically, he is absolutely a magic user. It's just not the one people expected. That's okay. I can't blame anyone for finding it weird he doesn't use some of his canon abilities, but uses some others. He got more canon stuff in Brawl, 4, and Ultimate, at least.
 

Will

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That would be nice to see.
I mean, not everyone could really apply.

You got your Marios & Luigi's, Chrom and Lucina's, and maybe a good eight more tops? :drshrug: I don't know, I'm no genius.
 
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