Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Cosmic77]

None of the Koopalings were seen with a miniature clown car of their own prior to Smash, and there's a huge difference in size between Morton or Lemmy and Bowser Jr.

If Sakurai really wanted to, he could make a lot of the ARMS characters work as Spring Man alts. As long as he uses different voice clips, I'm sure each of the characters could still convey their different personalities while sharing a generic idle animation and taunts.

"that one mobile game" has grossed 500 million. you cant ignore that. you also didnt add fire emblem shadows of Valentia. and that 2.58 mllion number is out of date. its two months old.

1. As I already said, one successful game is not enough to judge an entire franchise. Can they easily rake in a similar profit with a second mobile game, or was it something that they can only do once? FE has been getting some consistent numbers outside mobile games, but those numbers are dwarfed by Splatoon and Animal Crossing's numbers. That's why I think FE belongs in the same tier as Kirby rather than the former, as both series have nearly identical sales.

2. Three Houses sold 290,000 more copies between October and December 2019 (2.29 to 2.58), which is the holiday season. Even with Byleth, I don't think the numbers went up enough to compete with either of the Splatoon games or most of the AC titles.

3. SoV's sales wouldn't help prove a point about FE being an equal to Splatoon or AC.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Well considering what a "tier" is is completely subjective, maybe it's just...ya know, that.

To be honest it's probably a useless term when most people throw it out there since its meaning can change based on criteria:

How popular it is: C tier.
How much Nintendo cares about it: B tier at least.
Relevancy to the general gaming market: Probably C or D tier.
Cultural impact: What's a Fire Emblem?

I honestly think that the ARMS characters normals are actually going to be regular, non-stretchy punches. Kinda like how Simons REAL whip attacks are all his smash attacks, and his normals are all, like, these weird punches where he just holds the whip close. Those are not attacks that Simon(or Richter) have ever had, but they have them in Smash.

That's just his Neutral Attack though. His Forward Tilt, Forward and Back Aerials, and Up Aerials are all normal whip strikes.

EDIT: That is a good point though. The character will probably have some attacks that are a bit more normal so it can function properly as a character without being broken.

 

[MBRedboy31]

This is the last time I'll bring this up, as countless people including myself already proved that this isn't an issue.

Spring Man and Ninjara have similar enough proportions to share a model without changing much of there appearance. Same goes for Ribbon Girl and Min Min. All four of them have average young adult body types, and it wouldn't be that serious to slightly asjust all of them to be the same height.

Also, this is the same game that made all the Koopalings, a group of characters the have completely different body types and sizes, share a model with Bowser Jr. And some of them look straight up awful. If you mean to tell me that the four ARMS characters "wouldn't make sense" as the same model, you need to remember what game we're talking about.

Smash has prioritized fan service and representation over accuracy to the source time and time again, and the Koopalings are a glaring example of that.

I do wonder if, if they do opt to do this, they‘d give them any unique animations, like perhaps different idles. It’d be kind of weird to see Ninjara standing up straight rather than squatting down low to the ground, for example, although I’d probably get used to it after a while.

I honestly think that the ARMS characters normals are actually going to be regular, non-stretchy punches. Kinda like how Simons REAL whip attacks are all his smash attacks, and his normals are all, like, these weird punches where he just holds the whip close. Those are not attacks that Simon(or Richter) have ever had, but they have them in Smash.

(Edited) While they could reserve the stretchy punches to the specials and I can imagine that working well, I think the specials might be used for more gimmicky weapons like boomerangs/chakrams, Guardian or Clapback shields, Dragon lasers, ect. Although, I agree that some of their normals won’t be stretchy punches, (so, kicks, ect.) otherwise they’d have little defense once the opponent gets in close.

 

[Hinata]

I honestly think that the ARMS characters normals are actually going to be regular, non-stretchy punches. Kinda like how Simons REAL whip attacks are all his smash attacks, and his normals are all, like, these weird punches where he just holds the whip close. Those are not attacks that Simon(or Richter) have ever had, but they have them in Smash.

If I can't hit someone from the other side of Final Destination with my jab, then what's the point?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I've realized there's no point to the ARMS alts argument:

Side For: "I think the character will be Spring Man, but with other characters as alternate costumes."
Side against: "No because doing so would homogenize the characters and I don't want that."
Side For: "It's feasible so that's probably what they're going to do based off of our current information."

I think the specials might be suited to more gimmicky weapons like boomerangs/chakrams, Guardian or Clapback shields, Dragon lasers, ect. Although, I agree that some of their normals won’t be stretchy punches, (so, kicks, ect.) otherwise they’d have little defense once the opponent gets in close.

I highly doubt we'll see kicks unless Min Min is involved. Even then she doesn't attack by kicking so...

 

[MrElectroG64]

I honestly think that the ARMS characters normals are actually going to be regular, non-stretchy punches. Kinda like how Simons REAL whip attacks are all his smash attacks, and his normals are all, like, these weird punches where he just holds the whip close. Those are not attacks that Simon(or Richter) have ever had, but they have them in Smash.

I agree with this. At most we may get a somewhat springy, longer-distanced punch or two, like f-tilt, but for the most part the truly extended punches will be delegated to the smash attacks.

 

[Hinata]

A part of me is honestly kinda wondering if the ARMS character will be Max Brass or Dr. Coyle. They play the most important core and part of the series and plot to it.

On one hand we'd get and DLC super heavyweight on the other hand we'd get yet again another female villain after. Wendy doesn't count as she's an costume.

Thus spirits, mii costumes and assists remain "deconfirmed".

Between the two, I'd say Dr. Coyle is most likely. Max Brass is the "final boss" of ARMS for the most part, but he's really not important to the story outside of being the ARMS champion, and thus the hurdle for players to overcome in the Grand Prix mode.

Meanwhile, Dr. Coyle is the only fighter in ARMS who is unambiguously a villain, she's the reason a few members of the cast even exist (she created Helix, Hedlok, and Springtron, and was responsible for reviving Master Mummy), is the final boss of the harder difficulties of Grand Prix (plus the extra fight with her fused with Hedlok which ends with her destroying him with zero effort), and most things that happen in the ARMS universe, besides the ARMS phenomenon itself, can be traced back to her and her research. She's definitely the big bad of ARMS.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I agree with this. At most we may get a somewhat springy, longer-distanced punch or two, like f-tilt, but for the most part the truly extended punches will be delegated to the smash attacks.

I think the Smash attacks will actually be reigned in a bit if they switch ARMS; You do not want a powerful and unchallengable (or at least, near unchallengable) punch the size of Villager being thrown halfway across Battlefield.

 

[Tako Tuesday]

Wendy doesn't count as she's an costume.

Saying Wendy doesn't count as a female villain because she's a costume is like saying "Alph isn't in Smash because he's a costume", or "there's only one Hero in Smash because the other 3 are costumes".

 

[MBRedboy31]

I highly doubt we'll see kicks unless Min Min is involved. Even then she doesn't attack by kicking so...

Min Min does directly kick the opponent in her grab animation. She isn’t the only one who kicks opponents, either; Helix, Kid Cobra, and Lola Pop also have kicks in their throw animations.

Regardless, Smash movesets usually do take liberties when the character doesn’t have a full moveset already made (which the ARMS characters don’t, given their limited movesets.) For example, you don’t usually see characters like Link or Hero kick people when they have access to swords, yet they do in Smash.

 

[Deleted member]

Dr.Coyle could indeed be a cool character to have in, after hearing around Discord some ways they could play in Smash.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Min Min does directly kick the opponent in her grab animation. She isn’t the only one who kicks opponents, either; Helix, Kid Cobra, and Lola Pop also have kicks in their throw animations.

Oh she does? I vaguely remember that. I guess I wasn't paying enough attention. Still, I don't think we'll see any kicks unless any of these characters are involved since they're boxers, and punching is their thing, similarly to how Little Mac doesn't have any kicks.

 

[ZephyrZ]

I've realized there's no point to the ARMS alts argument:

Side For: "I think the character will be Spring Man, but with other characters as alternate costumes."
Side against: "No because doing so would homogenize the characters and I don't want that."
Side For: "It's feasible so that's probably what they're going to do based off of our current information."

Its popular because it finds a compromise between the two main points of speculation when it comes to the arms rep.

"Smash picks tend to gravitate heavily towards mascots and protagonists even when side characters are more interesting or popular, so Spring Man is the most feasible pick."

"Why would they tease us like they did if they were just going to pick the mascot?"

Granted neither of those points are set in stone. Maybe they will subvert our expectations by simply picking a non-mascot, or maybe they'll just go with the obvious pick with solo Springman or Ribbon Girl. But it wouldn't be speculation if we knew things with full certainty.

 

[Tako Tuesday]

Min Min does directly kick the opponent in her grab animation. She isn’t the only one who kicks opponents, either; Helix, Kid Cobra, and Lola Pop also have kicks in their throw animations.

Regardless, Smash movesets usually do take liberties when the character doesn’t have a full moveset already made (which the ARMS characters don’t, given their limited movesets.) For example, you don’t usually see characters like Link or Hero kick people when they have access to swords, yet they do in Smash.

Another example of this is Ness and Lucas using PK Fire, Thunder, Freeze, and Starstorm, moves they can't use in their own games.

The two needed complete movesets, but since they don't learn a lot of offensive PSI attacks in their own game, they took moves from other characters in their series.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

For real tho anyone got a concrete source on Banjo using Ridley as a base?

 

[MrElectroG64]

None of the Koopalings were seen with a miniature clown car of their own prior to Smash, and there's a huge difference in size between Morton or Lemmy and Bowser Jr.

If Sakurai really wanted to, he could make a lot of the ARMS characters work as Spring Man alts. As long as he uses different voice clips, I'm sure each of the characters could still convey their different personalities while sharing a generic idle animation and taunts.



1. As I already said, one successful game is not enough to judge an entire franchise. Can they easily rake in a similar profit with a second mobile game, or was it something that they can only do once? FE has been getting some consistent numbers outside mobile games, but those numbers are dwarfed by Splatoon and Animal Crossing's numbers. That's why I think FE belongs in the same tier as Kirby rather than the former, as both series have nearly identical sales.

2. Three Houses sold 290,000 more copies between October and December 2019 (2.29 to 2.58), which is the holiday season. Even with Byleth, I don't think the numbers went up enough to compete with either of the Splatoon games or most of the AC titles.

3. SoV's sales wouldn't help prove a point about FE being an equal to Splatoon or AC.

This. Sakurai could easily put a bunch of characters in as alts. I wouldn't go as to go full koopalings-mode on the alts, as even then they had the jr clown cars to hide just how hidious some of the models looked, whereas the ARMS characters didn't. This is why I suggest we just leave out the giant characters like Master Mummy, Max Brass and Mechanica. Leave it to only the more regular humanoid characters (meaning sadly no helix, most likely). The list of character alts could be:

1. Springman
2. Ribbon Girl
3. Min Min
4. Ninjara
5. Byte & Barq (or probably just Byte lol, as he doesn't need Barq at all to function normally)
6. Lola Pop
7. Springtron
8. Dr. Coyle

There. Alternatively, we could replace Springtron with someone like Misango, Kid Kobra, Master Mummy or Max Brass. Those last three would definitely need some kind of alterations though, especially Brass and Mummy, as they'd be a lot wider than anyone else on the ARMS roster (and likely just wouldn't work at all).

 

[Michael the Spikester]

This. Sakurai could easily put a bunch of characters in as alts. I wouldn't go as to go full koopalings-mode on the alts, as even then they had the jr clown cars to hide just how hidious some of the models looked, whereas the ARMS characters didn't. This is why I suggest we just leave out the giant characters like Master Mummy, Max Brass and Mechanica. Leave it to only the more regular humanoid characters (meaning sadly no helix, most likely). The list of character alts could be:

1. Springman
2. Ribbon Girl
3. Min Min
4. Ninjara
5. Byte & Barq (or probably just Byte lol, as he doesn't need Barq at all to function normally)
6. Lola Pop
7. Springtron
8. Dr. Coyle

There. Alternatively, we could replace Springtron with someone like Misango, Kid Kobra, Master Mummy or Max Brass. Those last three would definitely need some kind of alterations though, especially Brass and Mummy, as they'd be a lot wider than anyone else on the ARMS roster (and likely just wouldn't work at all).

I would replace Springtron that way he can take Spring Man's place as his assist trophy.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

This is like the only site I've been on where people have actually played Arms lol

 

[MrElectroG64]

This is like the only site I've been on where people have actually played Arms lol

surprisingly, a lot of people on /v/ have played it...

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Its popular because it finds a compromise between the two main points of speculation when it comes to the arms rep.

"Smash picks tend to gravitate heavily towards mascots and protagonists even when side characters are more interesting or popular, so Spring Man is the most feasible pick."

"Why would they tease us like they did if they were just going to pick the mascot?"

Granted neither of those points are set in stone. Maybe they will subvert our expectations by simply picking a non-mascot, or maybe they'll just go with the obvious pick with solo Springman or Ribbon Girl. But it wouldn't be speculation if we knew things with full certainty.

I get why, I just think it's a bad option. To be honest, most of the options are bad:

1. The fighter is just Spring Man.
   • Everyone's mad because you teased a predictable character.
2. The fighter is a solo character that is not a mascot.
   • ARMS is now misrepresented because it lacks it's mascot.
3. The fighter is Spring Man, and he comes with an Echo Fighter
   • Now every DLC character in the pass has to come with an Echo Fighter, or people are going to feel gypped.
4. The fighter is Spring Man, and other characters are his alternate costumes.
   • Now most of the characters have lost their identity due to homogenization.
5. The fighter is most or all of them as a sort of custom character.
   • They are so not doing this.
   • Also ew menus, I guess. (I don't really see the problem but eh.)

This. Sakurai could easily put a bunch of characters in as alts. I wouldn't go as to go full koopalings-mode on the alts, as even then they had the jr clown cars to hide just how hidious some of the models looked, whereas the ARMS characters didn't. This is why I suggest we just leave out the giant characters like Master Mummy, Max Brass and Mechanica. Leave it to only the more regular humanoid characters (meaning sadly no helix, most likely). The list of character alts could be:

1. Springman
2. Ribbon Girl
3. Min Min
4. Ninjara
5. Byte & Barq (or probably just Byte lol, as he doesn't need Barq at all to function normally)
6. Lola Pop
7. Springtron
8. Dr. Coyle

There. Alternatively, we could replace Springtron with someone like Misango, Kid Kobra, Master Mummy or Max Brass. Those last three would definitely need some kind of alterations though, especially Brass and Mummy, as they'd be a lot wider than anyone else on the ARMS roster (and likely just wouldn't work at all).

Byte without Barq is a travesty of galactic proportions. Speaking of which, Byte's legs are much longer than Spring Man's, and its torso much bulkier. It can't be an alternate costume. Lola Pop is all legs, so she can't really be an alt either. Dr. Coyle likely wouldn't work either since she has Twintelle's body type; tall and slender with longer legs and a shorter torso.

 

[Tako Tuesday]

This is like the only site I've been on where people have actually played Arms lol

I didn't manage to play it until the free demo that's going on now, due to a lack of funds and accidentally missing the previous free demos. I have been following the game since it was new, though.

And I've also never seen anyone who's played ARMS until this site, which is interesting because I believe the game sold quite well.

 

[MrElectroG64]

I get why, I just think it's a bad option. To be honest, most of the options are bad:

1. The fighter is just Spring Man.
   • Everyone's mad because you teased a predictable character.
2. The fighter is a solo character that is not a mascot.
   • ARMS is now misrepresented because it lacks it's mascot.
3. The fighter is Spring Man, and he comes with an Echo Fighter
   • Now every DLC character in the pass has to come with an Echo Fighter, or people are going to feel gypped.
4. The fighter is Spring Man, and other characters are his alternate costumes.
   • Now most of the characters have lost their identity due to homogenization.
5. The fighter is most or all of them as a sort of custom character.
   • They are so not doing this.
   • Also ew menus, I guess. (I don't really see the problem but eh.)

Byte without Barq is a travesty of galactic proportions. Speaking of which, Byte's legs are much longer than Spring Man's, and its torso much bulkier. It can't be an alternate costume. Lola Pop is all legs, so she can't really be an alt either. Dr. Coyle likely wouldn't work either since she has Twintelle's body type; tall and slender with longer legs and a shorter torso.

I mean, Barq could probably show up during a move or two, or during the taunts. Byte's proportions could easily be altered to fit springman, as when he's sized down to be the same height as SM, his bulky torso becomes much less of an issue, same for the legs, which could also be shortened slightly, like Bayonetta.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I mean, Barq could probably show up during a move or two, or during the taunts. Byte's proportions could easily be altered to fit springman, as when he's sized down to be the same height as SM, his bulky torso becomes much less of an issue, same for the legs, which could also be shortened slightly, like Bayonetta.

I suppose, but since Isabelle's reason for not being Villager's Echo fighter is that her proportions are different even though they are pretty similar, I don't think they'll go that route.

 

[3BitSaurus]

After playing ARMS for the past few days, I honestly think whoever is coming has the potential to be one of my top 5 favorite newcomers in Ultimate.

There's a lot of potential for fanrule-breaking:

- Spring Man breaks the idea that ATs, Spirits and Mii Costumes are 100% disconfirms.
- Ribbon Girl would do the same, but only for Spirits and MCs.
- So would Ninjara, Min Min and Twintelle, but for Spirits only.

Plus, if anyone that isn't Spring Man (and Ribbon Girl, arguably) get in, it would be the first case of "protagonist is NOT first in a series" since Smash 64

With all the different ARMS and features, it would be hard to make the character boring. For stages, the hazards themselves may not be that interesting (mostly bumpers, platforms and breakable objects), but I'm sure it will be cool-looking, at least.

Ngl, ARMS was never my first choice for a first party... but I can't deny I'm at least a bit excited.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

After playing ARMS for the past few days, I honestly think whoever is coming has the potential to be one of my top 5 favorite newcomers in Ultimate.

There's a lot of potential for fanrule-breaking:

- Spring Man breaks the idea that ATs, Spirits and Mii Costumes are 100% disconfirms.
- Ribbon Girl would do the same, but only for Spirits and MCs.
- So would Ninjara, Min Min and Twintelle, but for Spirits only.

Plus, if anyone that isn't Spring Man (and Ribbon Girl, arguably) get in, it would be the first case of "protagonist is NOT first in a series" since Smash 64

With all the different ARMS and features, it would be hard to make the character boring. For stages, the hazards themselves may not be that interesting (mostly bumpers, platforms and breakable objects), but I'm sure it will be cool-looking, at least.

Ngl, ARMS was never my first choice for a first party... but I can't deny I'm at least a bit excited.

Watch it be Dr. Coyle or Max Brass and none of the rules gets broken. ;P

 

[3BitSaurus]

Watch it be Dr. Coyle or Max Brass and none of the rules gets broken. ;P

Even if that happens, I said that would also be an interesting scenario in my post.

Plus, if anyone that isn't Spring Man (and Ribbon Girl, arguably) get in, it would be the first case of "protagonist is NOT first in a series" since Smash 64

 

[Krankees]

I think the Smash attacks will actually be reigned in a bit if they switch ARMS; You do not want a powerful and unchallengable (or at least, near unchallengable) punch the size of Villager being thrown halfway across Battlefield.

I mean they could do that but then they would have to make it move at the speed of Robin.

 

[Strider_Bond00J]

Bit of a random question, but I'm curious.
Out of ALL the playable franchises currently in Smash, which one(s) would you add a new Fighter to?

Bit of a late response to this question but here are my responses.
Mario: Waluigi
Donkey Kong: Dixie Kong
Kirby: Bandanna Waddle Dee
Star Fox: Krystal
Metroid: Sylux
F-Zero: Black Shadow
Kid Icarus: Medusa or Viridi
WarioWare: Ashley
Metal Gear: Raiden
Sonic: Dr. Eggman
Animal Crossing: Tom Nook
Mega Man: Zero
Xenoblade: Rex & Pyra/Mythra or Elma
Splatoon: Octolings
Street Fighter: Chun-Li
Final Fantasy: Sephiroth, Terra Branford or Tifa Lockhart
Persona: Aigis
Fatal Fury/The King of Fighters: Rock Howard or Kyo Kusanagi.

I suppose I'll toss in a few cents towards my idea of how an ARMS fighter could work a bit later today, but I thought I'd answer one of the earlier questions.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I mean they could do that but then they would have to make it move at the speed of Robin.

Most everyone: "We can literally outrun it. How do you expect to hit us with it?"
Incineroar: *sweats nervously*

 

[StrangeKitten]

Most everyone: "We can literally outrun it. How do you expect to hit us with it?"
Incineroar: *sweats nervously*

One need not outrun what one can simply Revenge

 

[Proceleon]

Most everyone: "We can literally outrun it. How do you expect to hit us with it?"
Incineroar: *sweats nervously*

Me, an Incineroar main:

 

[DarthEnderX]

1. The fighter is just Spring Man.
   • Everyone's mad because you teased a predictable character.

That's not going to make everyone mad.
Anyone that's tired of the "No ATs!" "No Spirits" "No Mii Custumes" fanrules that doesn't have a problem with protags being picked first is going to be happy with that pick.

 

[Mamboo07]

I feel like the whole "ARMS alt costume thing" is just stupid.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I feel like the whole "ARMS alt costume thing" is just stupid.

Cool? I mean I thought the idea of 8 Koopalings of varying sizes riding around in a clown car was stupid back in Smash 4 speculation. A lot of good that opinion did me.

 

[Cosmic77]

Setting aside whether or not you think it'll happen, I don't see a reason for anyone to be rooting against alt characters.

Unless the idea of Ribbon Girl not having four jumps or Min Min not kicking is so horribly disgusting to you, alts would potentially allow you to play as your favorites who didn't get picked. Why would you prefer not having them playable at all?

 

[Deleted member]

My reasoning for why alts are cool is because the chances of ARMs getting another character isn't likely unless there actually is going to be an ARMs 2 later in Smash 6 in who knows how many years from now. Might as well pump as much content into the slot as possible.

I say that with the assumption that Ribbon Girl and Min Min would be alts, who are characters I'd enjoy having in Smash.


Now if you ask me, I think more people should worry about whether they're fun instead of playing like a clunky low tier mess. That's ultimately going to decide their long term impact and whether I continue playing them

 

[Cosmic77]

Oh, I just realized that amiibo theory may potentially be dead.

Unless they announce a June release date for Joker and possibly others within the next few weeks, we won't be getting any new amiibo when the ARMS character is released.

It's still possible since amiibo have been revealed as late as almost a month before their release, but a majority of them have been revealed roughly five months ahead of time.

 

[Deleted member]

Setting aside whether or not you think it'll happen, I don't see a reason for anyone to be rooting against alt characters.

Unless the idea of Ribbon Girl not having four jumps or Min Min not kicking is so horribly disgusting to you, alts would potentially allow you to play as your favorites who didn't get picked. Why would you prefer not having them playable at all?

I agree. Honestly, I doubt the fact that someone like Ribbon Girl being playable is going to affect the fact that you can still play Spring Man or Min Min.

This is like the only site I've been on where people have actually played Arms lol

Really? I've seen tons of people outside of Smashboards play it.

Now the problem is I haven't seen many people play it after it was done updating lol.

 

[SneakyLink]

Oh, I just realized that amiibo theory may potentially be dead.

Unless they announce a June release date for Joker and possibly others within the next few weeks, we won't be getting any new amiibo when the ARMS character is released.

It's still possible since amiibo have been revealed as late as almost a month before their release, but a majority of them have been revealed roughly five months ahead of time.

Maybe they'll just announce/showcase the next amiibo wave(s) when the ARMS character is showcased?

At this point, I don't expect any more amiibo to be announced until June/Old E3.

 

[Idon]

Everything sounds stupid until it actually happens.

"Hey what if we got a fast lithe character with high mobility, but by getting hit he activates a mode wherein he gets giant hitboxes and insane damage and knockback"
"Hey what if we got a mediocre swordsman with little to no redeeming qualities... except the fact he is heavily fueled by an insanely luck based RNG move"
"Hey what if we got a mediocre brawling type character with bar none the best burst move in the entire game... but he only gets 5 per life"

If it doesn't work, Sakurai will make it work, God help us all.