Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[GoodGrief741]

I personally think some characters being "heavily requested" are somewhat skewed toward what is commonly talked about in Smash communities.

Don't have anything to really base that on, but I'd surmise most of the Top 10 of the Smash ballot were characters that casuals voted for in droves, or characters that had a BUTT TON of support behind them. Considering "Everyone is Here!" happened to take place right after the ballot, and it took place while DLC was in development (and we didn't really know when it would apply), I would guess picks in the Top 10 might have looked something like a mix of the following characters:

Snake, K. Rool, Ridley, Ice Climbers, Goku, Bayonetta, Pokemon Trainer, Wolf, Banjo-Kazooie, Sora, Young Link, Pichu, Ryu, Cloud, Castlevania, etc...

These are all picks that would likely make sense considering the disappearance of popular picks from Brawl, Top picks that didn't make it into Wii U but were hotly debated upon, and then characters we could kinda figure wouldn't be in Smash anyway, like Goku.

The Fire Emblem devs didn't realize Lyn was incredibly popular. Nintendo didn't realize how popular King K.Rool was for Smash until the ballot. Up until the ballot, everybody was convinced King K. Rool was a lock for Wii U/3DS. I think we heavily overestimate characters that that don't receive MASSIVE support from those days. Geno? Eh, not as big as he used to be, and not universally supported within the community. Bandanna Dee? I don't really know that I've seen the same type of support over time, and I'm not sure how marketable he is for DLC when he's a side character compared to 9 picks that have all been protagonists of their respective games or series. It would simply be a massive shift from what we've consistently gotten.
--
Another thing I figured I would mention, thinking about the Zelda talk yesterday. We really can't say much regarding a potential "shill" pick for BOTW considering we don't have much of an idea for who will show up. We already have Link, the Champions are gone, and Zelda is the same Zelda from BOTW 1. Sakurai himself said that they opted to pick a different Zelda because she was, "more interested in exploring than fighting" in BOTW.

That could change if Zelda does something beyond exploring in BOTW 2, but even then that doesn't mean we'd get a pick. Just figured I'd throw that out there.

I'm sorry but Young Link and Pichu being top contenders in the Ballot? Please. I think it's more likely that just a few cut veterans (probably Snake, the Icies and Wolf) did really well, but overall I think it was decided that "veterans" was a highly wanted concept because of the aggregated votes of many different characters. Just like it wasn't that Simon or Richter or Alucard did well in the ballot, but rather they all collectively did well enough that Castlevania was seen as a demanded series. That seems much more likely to me that there being tons of hidden/casual people voting for Young Link.

And I think you're overcomplicating things. Nintendo and company being out of touch is nothing new. They got the ballot, they know the results, they know who's popular now and it's up to them to act on it or not.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

Watching some old videos, still think it's kind of wild that half these guys is now playable to an extent on Fountain of Dreams.

 

[Kokiden]

Watching some old videos, still think it's kind of wild that half these guys is now playable to an extent on Fountain of Dreams.
View attachment 264961

Fountain of Dreams is one of my favourite stages. Crying shame it's not viable for competitive stages.

 

[Will]

Fountain of Dreams is one of my favourite stages. Crying shame it's not viable for competitive stages.

If Hazards On was an option then it probably would be.

 

[HansShotFirst20]

Watching some old videos, still think it's kind of wild that half these guys is now playable to an extent on Fountain of Dreams.
View attachment 264961

3/4 when the Geno Mii costume gets added again

 

[Dinoman96]

You want wild? I'll give you wild

5/6 of these characters are playable in Smash

 

[SKX31]

If Hazards On was an option then it probably would be.

IIRC it's because the particle effects cause too much lag (aka. enough to slow down the FPS noticeably). Dunno if Sakurai and co. would consider the particle effects a hazard (my very personal hunch is no) though.

You want wild? I'll give you wild

5/6 of these characters are playable in Smash

That is so far from a complete soccer te-

Waaaait a sec, you mean that Mario Strikers 3 will have B-K and Lanky Kong as newcomers?

Forget Nintendo Kart, Nintendo Strikers is where it's at!

 

[PeridotGX]

You want wild? I'll give you wild

5/6 of these characters are playable in Smash

FP6 will make it 6/6, you heard it here first

 

[HansShotFirst20]

Screw Dante, screw Phoenix, scew Monster Hunter, screw Amaterasu

Asura for Smash as FPv2's capcom rep

 

[Cutie Gwen]

screw Amaterasu

Man this post is bad, you really screwed the pooch on that one

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Screw Dante, screw Phoenix, scew Monster Hunter, screw Amaterasu

Asura for Smash as FPv2's capcom rep

B-b-but

Viewtiful Joe tho.

 

[Rangez]

You want wild? I'll give you wild

5/6 of these characters are playable in Smash

This artstyle is so unsettling to me...

 

[PeridotGX]

Screw Dante, screw Phoenix, scew Monster Hunter, screw Amaterasu

Asura for Smash as FPv2's capcom rep

bold of you to mention all these literal whos and ignore the biggest gaming icon in the history of anything, Chill Penguin

 

[P.Kat]

Morning/Good Night everyone, so what's new toda-

screw Amaterasu

Nothing but degeneracy, as usual...

 

[Ace C.R.O.S.S.]

Screw Dante, screw Phoenix, scew Monster Hunter, screw Amaterasu

Asura for Smash as FPv2's capcom rep

You wanna fight? I'll bring an entire army!
Notice this is a joke

 

[TheShiningAbsol]

They're set in their ways despite the fact that many people don't share their same viewpoints. When you're making a product and selling it to people you probably should understand their viewpoints to help structure your product. But instead Sakurai thinks it's great so everyone has to agree with that. And that's the reason why we keep getting awful Mii Costumes. Sakurai totally believes that people feel like they're playing as those character despite the fact that they look ugly with their messed up proportions so no one really feels like their playing as any of those characters, but because Sakurai believes it they will keep focusing on that as DLC instead Echo Fighters, different modes, or costumes.
Still super lame that they went out of their way to get Bomberman only to make him a 1 out 59 chance summon when the game decides to have Assist Trophy show up.

Not every character was gonna be playable regardless. I’d rather see Shadow and Bomberman as Assist Trophies than not at all. And Mii costumes are a great way to pay homage to characters that couldn’t make it in as playable. One of my buddies is a Nakoruru main in SamSho, do you really think he was upset that Terry was playable and Nakoruru wasn’t? Of course not, because Terry was always going to be playable first. Getting Nakoruru in a “playable” form was icing on the cake. And my uncle, who’s super into Warframe, do you think he was upset that Warframe got a spirit rather than a character? No, because he never expected it to get anything at all. And despite what you might think, Sakurai doesn’t equate everything to playable—if he did, Chrom and Dark Samus wouldn’t be playable now.

There’s more to Smash than being playable, Wynn. Hopefully one day you can see that—I think you’d appreciate the game a lot more.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

You want wild? I'll give you wild

5/6 of these characters are playable in Smash

HE HAS NO STYLE

HE HAS NO GRACE

THIS KONG IS NEXT IN THE RACE

 

[Faso115]

I dont want a newcomer that no style or no grace.

Coconut gun

 

[HansShotFirst20]

Man this post is bad, you really screwed the pooch on that one

Morning/Good Night everyone, so what's new toda-
View attachment 264968
Nothing but degeneracy, as usual...

chill my dawgs, I also said 'screw dante' who is my most wanted pick

 

[snowgolem]

It’s an old argument, but I need to put my input in after reading a specific post. Person said that it would be too incredibly disappointing if Waluigi got in before the likes of Isaac, Shadow, or other ATs.
Mario is Nintendo’s MASCOT. The fact that Waluigi, arguably the 3rd main villain (behind Bowser and Wario,) isn’t in yet is insane. Shadow isn’t nearly as large as Waluigi. Isaac isn’t nearly as large as Waluigi. Waluigi is on another level. Don’t compare Waluigi to any other AT. There’s a reason people complain about him still being an AT the most.

 

[HansShotFirst20]

It’s an old argument, but I need to put my input in after reading a specific post. Person said that it would be too incredibly disappointing if Waluigi got in before the likes of Isaac, Shadow, or other ATs.
Mario is Nintendo’s MASCOT. The fact that Waluigi, arguably the 3rd main villain (behind Bowser and Wario,) isn’t in yet is insane. Shadow isn’t nearly as large as Waluigi. Isaac isn’t nearly as large as Waluigi. Waluigi is on another level. Don’t compare Waluigi to any other AT. There’s a reason people complain about him still being an AT the most.

I put Waluigi (or even Wario) as main series Mario villains, but Waluigi does have a constant presence, and sheerly by virtue of being a mario character he has Isaac (from a dead series), Krystal (secondary character furbait), and Shadow (also secondary character, but way more popular than Isaac or Krystal), cornered in terms of demand. Even if the support threads on this site and others vastly favor non-waluigi AT's, the general public is unlikely to have heard of any of those characters (except maybe shadow).


That said, I'm iffy on the notion that Sakurai's team will 'promote' AT's, or even spirits for DLC.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

This artstyle is so unsettling to me...

It looks fine until you look at Peach

 

[HansShotFirst20]

I know it's impolite to rain on someone's support parade, but christ is Geno support a bubble.

These guys are putting Geno up there with Dante, Crash, Sora, and Master chief like they're on the same level. Sure, he's a character with a legacy of support like Banjo -- which lends to his chances -- but Banjo was also one of the mascots of the N64, and one of the faces of late 90's gaming nostalgia, and not a side character with one appearance in a 25 year old spinoff game. I feel like the only reason people are still asking for Geno is because they've already been asking for him for 10 years.

I know 'attacking' the biggest support group on the site (and the mascot of the biggest name in smash speculation) comes off as aggressive, but I really need to know what this whole Geno thing is about. What about him is worth supporting him for 10 years, even as the goal posts get further and further away?

 

[Will]

What about him is worth supporting him for 10 years, even as the goal posts get further and further away?

The same thing that pushed K. Rool, Ridley, and Banjo fans.



You may call it impolite but you must've not been there when the fanbases of the three I just mentioned were going through the exact same ****.

 

[Deleted member]

I know it's impolite to rain on someone's support parade, but christ is Geno support a bubble.

These guys are putting Geno up there with Dante, Crash, Sora, and Master chief like they're on the same level. Sure, he's a character with a legacy of support like Banjo -- which lends to his chances -- but Banjo was also one of the mascots of the N64, and one of the faces of late 90's gaming nostalgia, and not a side character with one appearance in a 25 year old spinoff game. I feel like the only reason people are still asking for Geno is because they've already been asking for him for 10 years.

I know 'attacking' the biggest support group on the site (and the mascot of the biggest name in smash speculation) comes off as aggressive, but I really need to know what this whole Geno thing is about. What about him is worth supporting him for 10 years, even as the goal posts get further and further away?

Honestly it's kinda sad they dedicate so much time into it when they could do something more worthwhile.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

chill my dawgs, I also said 'screw dante' who is my most wanted pick

Bruh do you not know that pooch can mean dog?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I know it's impolite to rain on someone's support parade, but christ is Geno support a bubble.

These guys are putting Geno up there with Dante, Crash, Sora, and Master chief like they're on the same level. Sure, he's a character with a legacy of support like Banjo -- which lends to his chances -- but Banjo was also one of the mascots of the N64, and one of the faces of late 90's gaming nostalgia, and not a side character with one appearance in a 25 year old spinoff game. I feel like the only reason people are still asking for Geno is because they've already been asking for him for 10 years.

I know 'attacking' the biggest support group on the site (and the mascot of the biggest name in smash speculation) comes off as aggressive, but I really need to know what this whole Geno thing is about. What about him is worth supporting him for 10 years, even as the goal posts get further and further away?

How many of these characters are directly supported by Sakurai? That's a pretty big deal, though it doesn't mean much with Nintendo choosing the DLC.

So it's actually a huge difference among those. None of that list has direct support by Sakurai either. It's Geno only. He didn't directly support Banjo-Kazooie either(barely mentioned him while swiftly dismissing him as impossible). This factor is a big reason why the thread is so huge. Coupled with a Mii costume missing(which to be frank, isn't unsurprising at all it wasn't shown off with Hero, who was a DQ-focused presentation anyway), and for the most part, it looks "better" for him than some. I don't have major confidence in the character showing up either. I'm more expecting a Premium costume than anything else at this point, if the costume even returns(which I could easily see both the SE costumes being scrapped too. SE simply said no. Not strange, to be honest, if it would happen).

 

[Dinoman96]

It's funny, there is one character on Smash's roster that is equivalent to Geno's status...

Think about it, they both

• had only appeared in really only one game
• were not the main character of said game, like Shulk or Lucas or whatever
• have a whole unique moveset, and don't have the excuse of being an echo fighter like Dark Pit

But the one big distinction between them, and it's a pretty big one, is the fact that Sheik is really just the alter ego of Zelda. She got into Smash as an extension of the latter's moveset, and was kept around even after transformations were cut because she was already grandfathered in.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I just feel sad that they truly believe he's coming.

 

[Untouch]

When Melee was out, OoT was still in the limelight and the current interpretation of Zelda (she was BARELY in MM) was with Sheik.
If Zelda (somehow) was just added in Ultimate, I don't think she's have Sheik. Sheik for the most part isn't a reoccurring character, I think they'd go for Impa instead. (Who is in SS and BOTW, the last 2 mainline games.)

 

[TheShiningAbsol]

I just hate that you can’t have a rational conversation if you even slightly suggest that Geno may not be as likely as they think or may come back as a Mii costume. Just about every argument devolves into using “well they COULD put him in” as evidence. Like don’t get me wrong, I’ve wanted Geno for years, but I don’t think he’s coming.

I’m also not a huge fan of the cult-like nature of the group and almost reverence of a... certain individual.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I’d rather see Shadow and Bomberman as Assist Trophies than not at all

As someone who isn't a Shadow fan, wouldn't you rather have Shadow do more than just be the timer item with Shadow in the background?

Just like there's more to Smash than being playable, there's more to wanting promotions than having their icon on the character select screen.

 

[TheShiningAbsol]

As someone who isn't a Shadow fan, wouldn't you rather have Shadow do more than just be the timer item with Shadow in the background?

Just like there's more to Smash than being playable, there's more to wanting promotions than having their icon on the character select screen.

Sure, of course I would. I’m also a Shadow fan. I was almost sure he would be an echo fighter. Obviously he was not, for reasons we don’t know. But I very seriously doubt there was a situation where he was ever planned to be playable and then they decided to make him an Assist Trophy instead, which is what Wynn likes to imply—that Sakurai consciously chose these characters that he saw as “lesser” and “demoted” them, which is not the case.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

It's funny, there is one character on Smash's roster that is equivalent to Geno's status...

Think about it, they both

• had only appeared in really only one game
• were not the main character of said game, like Shulk or Lucas or whatever
• have a whole unique moveset, and don't have the excuse of being an echo fighter like Dark Pit

But the one big distinction between them, and it's a pretty big one, is the fact that Sheik is really just the alter ego of Zelda. She got into Smash as an extension of the latter's moveset, and was kept around even after transformations were cut because she was already grandfathered in.

The fact that OoT is a far more iconic game with bigger cultural impact than Super Mario RPG probably also helped. But really, another important distinction was that there was no potential licensing issue that would affect Sheik. I mean, Nintendo would actually have to pay for the usage of Geno as a playable character.

 

[Deleted member]

About Geno..... While he’s not my most wanted, I think the fact that people have been continuously supporting him despite being a one-off support character from a 25 year old game is, quite honestly, incredible.

Ultimate has already made other longtime requested characters a reality () so I can’t think of a better time for Geno's support to also finally pay off.

 

[Dinoman96]

The problem is that while Ultimate has made other longtime requested characters happen, it also left other longtime requested characters in the dust.

Like for example, Isaac.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

The problem is that while Ultimate has made other longtime requested characters happen, it also left other longtime requested characters in the dust.

Like for example, Isaac.

You can’t please everyone.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

As someone who isn't a Shadow fan, wouldn't you rather have Shadow do more than just be the timer item with Shadow in the background?

Just like there's more to Smash than being playable, there's more to wanting promotions than having their icon on the character select screen.

Shadow being an assist trophy is the one decision for this game that truly bums me out.

He's absolutely perfect for a Chrom like echo, the fact that they didn't go all in on it feels like a waste of a good character.

 

[Just a random scrub]

Honestly it's kinda sad they dedicate so much time into it when they could do something more worthwhile.

Why specifically them though? That statement could apply to most of the speculation community, lol

The problem is that while Ultimate has made other longtime requested characters happen, it also left other longtime requested characters in the dust.

Like for example, Isaac.

Yeah. Not even really an Issac supporter, but I'm always gonna feel bad for them. Especially since it was a last minute KO. Isaac really should be smashing with the rest of 'em.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Nintendo would actually have to pay for the usage of Geno as a playable character.

They pay for usage of the Geno spirit already so what's the difference?

Why specifically them though? That statement could apply to most of the speculation community, lol

Because it's hip and happening with the cool kids to make fun of Geno fans for just liking a non-main character from a game they like.