Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Rie Sonomura]

Travis Touchdown, Crash, Ryu Hayabusa, Phoenix Wright, 2B (There's still a chance), Geno and Neku (Now that I think Sakurai trying to implement Sora like Heihachi to their games source material might be too difficult) to be other possibilities for opening the Season Pass 2.

didn't the TWEWY site go under surprise maintenance a few months ago, and the last time that happened was shortly before Final Remix's release?

 

[Michael the Spikester]

didn't the TWEWY site go under surprise maintenance a few months ago, and the last time that happened was shortly before Final Remix's release?

Pretty suspicious...Hmmm...

Plus Neku is easily one of those surprise picks I could see aswas.

 

[Dinoman96]

Crash feels more like an E3 calibur reveal to me.

E3 2018 had Ridley and 2019 had Banjo & Kazooie, so Crash could work as E3 2020's equivalent, being a western fan favorite character.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Crash feels more like an E3 calibur reveal to me.

E3 2018 had Ridley and 2019 had Banjo & Kazooie, so Crash could work as E3 2020's equivalent, being a western fan favorite character.

True, true. Assuming we get FP6 this or next month then I imagine him being the second character of this pass.

 

[N3ON]

Pretty suspicious...Hmmm...

Plus Neku is easily one of those surprise picks I could see aswas.

That would certainly be surprising.

 

[Krankees]

Travis Touchdown, Crash, Ryu Hayabusa, Phoenix Wright, 2B (There's still a chance), Geno and Neku (Now that I think Sakurai trying to implement Sora like Heihachi to their games source material might be too difficult) to be other possibilities for opening the Season Pass 2.

I know which one I want.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Plus Neku is easily one of those surprise picks I could see aswas.

I dunno. Joker is still repping a fairly long running spinoff series, as well as indirectly repping an even longer running core series.

Neku's franchise is one game on a portable console many years ago. So unless he's serving as a kind of standin for Sora, the two characters aren't remotely comparable.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I dunno. Joker is still repping a fairly long running spinoff series, as well as indirectly repping an even longer running core series.

Neku's franchise is one game on a portable console many years ago. So unless he's serving as a kind of standin for Sora, the two characters aren't remotely comparable.

The way I'm seeing it. I think Sora's biggest issue isn't Disney being an obstacle but rather Sakurai implementing him into Smash staying true to its character. I imagine Sakurai won't think Sora will work without Disney characters being involved like Tekken's gameplay with Heihachi.

I could see Sakurai with going with Neku to make up for it.

 

[MisterMike]

Piranha Plant doesn't have a legacy. It's literally Generic Enemy #3, if anything Goomba is the one with the legacy seeing how it's the first enemy of Super Mario Bros. When talking about mook enemies nobody say "Oh, those are the Piranha Plant of this game," no they go "This is the Goomba of this game." You're acting like Piranha Plant is the foundation of enemy types when they're the third enemy type you actually encounter in World 1-2. You see Goombas and Koopas first before you even see a Piranha Plant. Hell, Piranha Plant acts more of an obstacle instead of an actual enemy. So if anything if going to be a generic enemy added to Smash Bros if should've been the one that had the most impact on the gaming industry, Goomba. So there's also many different Goomba subspecies, they're in just as many games as Piranha Plant, and they're actually playable in way more games than Piranha Plant.for that character.

Thank you for proving my point about legacy, you dingus.

But I guess once a character becomes playable you can just make up a legacy.

Holy ****, the sheer amount of irony in this single sentence is palpable. This just proves that you didn't listen to a single word I said. I'm not trying to argue that Piranha Plant has a super deep legacy or anything, whether it does or not is entirely besides the point. The point I was getting at is that, when it comes to characters people want, legacy doesn't really matter, and is only used by people as a way to build up characters they want and denegrate characters they don't want, as well as argue a character's value post-hoc.

If Mr. Game & Watch wasn't introduced in Melee, but rather introduced in Ultimate a la Piranha Plant, people would not like him. They would be complaining that Sakurai put in a character no one wanted from an old series of calculators. Instead of spending about a year and a half's time seething about a Plant getting in over any other characters you wanted, you'd be seething about some flat piece of garbage with a random, OP Side-Special who speaks in annoying beeps.

Also you're going about how people would react if characters like ROB and whoever appeared in Ultimate and you're forgetting the context.
Melee had 14 Newcomers
Brawl had 18
Smash 4 had 17 for it's base, but with DLC had total of 21 after DLC
Smash Ultimate only had 6 newcomers for it's base and Piranha Plant was suppose to be part of that base roster boosting it to 7.

When you have low amount of new characters added in then that one crappy character is going to stick out like the biggest of sore thumbs.

I didn't forget that context. In fact, that's the entire basis of my argument. If characters like Mr. Game & Watch, Ice Climbers, Roy, Pichu, or R.O.B. were introduced today (ie. Ultimate) as newcomers, you wouldn't have people sitting there singing their praises and welcoming their addition. Rather, you'd have people just like you bemoaning them as wastes of character slots, as you're currently doing with Piranha Plant and Byleth.



But putting all of that aside, since we've already gone over a good bit of that already, nothing you've said invalidates my initial argument whatsoever.
As a quick recap...

• You said that Waluigi is never getting in Smash because Sakurai and company put Piranha Plant in the game.
• I respond by explaining to you that it doesn't matter, because there are other characters who nobody particularly asked for who got in before other, more requested characters, and yet those same characters who didn't get in then still got in later.
• You then proceeded to say that the examples I listed weren't comparable because A) Mr. Game & Watch had a legacy, B) R.O.B. isn't third party like Mega Man is and third parties were less likely overall during the Brawl days, C) Dark Pit was put in due to Sakurai Bias, and D) those characters were released in a different time, and thus aren't as bad as Piranha Plant or Byleth.

How do any of your arguments here actually prove that Piranha Plant getting in before Waluigi makes the latter impossible? Short answer, it doesn't. You've done little-to-nothing to attack the argument I made. What you've done here instead is a classic argumentative style called a 'Bait-and-Switch Argument'. Basically, if you can't win an argument you're having with someone, shift the focus away to a different argument and try to win that. In this instance, you shifted the argument away from "Waluigi isn't getting in Smash because they already chose Piranha Plant." to "The examples you've given are inaccurate because of X, Y and Z reasons.".

You do this kind of **** a lot and I'm honestly getting tired of seeing you go that route time and time again. Why can't you just attack a person's argument head-on rather than shifting the entire topic to something else? And if you can't argue your terrible points well at all, why not stop making them? Like I get you feel that we won't get anyone good for this Fighter Pass, but sitting here seeing you trying to once again argue your feelings as fact is just tiresome and annoying for everyone to have to deal with.

Exactly. That's why a lot of the characters people been asking for are Assist Trophies and why all that complaint about "Too Many Fire Emblem" doesn't matter at all. If they don't them then it doesn't matter how much you campaign, they know that majority of those playing Smash Bros will be happy with any and they ask for just about anyone so they're going to put in what they want. We're already at the point where they're done with fan demand, they put in Ridley, K Rool, Simon and Banjo, now the next six are going to be what interest Sakurai and Nintendo.

And what if you're wrong?

Crash feels more like an E3 calibur reveal to me.

E3 2018 had Ridley and 2019 had Banjo & Kazooie, so Crash could work as E3 2020's equivalent, being a western fan favorite character.

Either him or Geno, really. They're the only two left who I think would be as hype as Ridley and Banjo.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Yes! Tons of amazing tracks, such as this one:



One of my favorites.

DaybreakHorizon wrote a really nice post about Don-chan before fighter pass 2 was revealed. I recommend checking it out!

I know Im late but this is my fav song and it came with him, Id flip

 

[TheCJBrine]

When you think about it, Mr. Game & Watch was an original character created by Sakurai. Yes he was based on the generic people in the Game & Watch games, but his own character didn't exist; and now, he's straight-up an amalgam of different G&W characters (I guess he sorta was already in Brawl and Smash 4 since he could still turn into the octopus).

 

[wynn728]

Thank you for proving my point about legacy, you dingus.


Holy ****, the sheer amount of irony in this single sentence is palpable. This just proves that you didn't listen to a single word I said. I'm not trying to argue that Piranha Plant has a super deep legacy or anything, whether it does or not is entirely besides the point. The point I was getting at is that, when it comes to characters people want, legacy doesn't really matter, and is only used by people as a way to build up characters they want and denegrate characters they don't want, as well as argue a character's value post-hoc.

If Mr. Game & Watch wasn't introduced in Melee, but rather introduced in Ultimate a la Piranha Plant, people would not like him. They would be complaining that Sakurai put in a character no one wanted from an old series of calculators. Instead of spending about a year and a half's time seething about a Plant getting in over any other characters you wanted, you'd be seething about some flat piece of garbage with a random, OP Side-Special who speaks in annoying beeps.


I didn't forget that context. In fact, that's the entire basis of my argument. If characters like Mr. Game & Watch, Ice Climbers, Roy, Pichu, or R.O.B. were introduced today (ie. Ultimate) as newcomers, you wouldn't have people sitting there singing their praises and welcoming their addition. Rather, you'd have people just like you bemoaning them as wastes of character slots, as you're currently doing with Piranha Plant and Byleth.



But putting all of that aside, since we've already gone over a good bit of that already, nothing you've said invalidates my initial argument whatsoever.
As a quick recap...

• You said that Waluigi is never getting in Smash because Sakurai and company put Piranha Plant in the game.
• I respond by explaining to you that it doesn't matter, because there are other characters who nobody particularly asked for who got in before other, more requested characters, and yet those same characters who didn't get in then still got in later.
• You then proceeded to say that the examples I listed weren't comparable because A) Mr. Game & Watch had a legacy, B) R.O.B. isn't third party like Mega Man is and third parties were less likely overall during the Brawl days, C) Dark Pit was put in due to Sakurai Bias, and D) those characters were released in a different time, and thus aren't as bad as Piranha Plant or Byleth.

How do any of your arguments here actually prove that Piranha Plant getting in before Waluigi makes the latter impossible? Short answer, it doesn't. You've done little-to-nothing to attack the argument I made. What you've done here instead is a classic argumentative style called a 'Bait-and-Switch Argument'. Basically, if you can't win an argument you're having with someone, shift the focus away to a different argument and try to win that. In this instance, you shifted the argument away from "Waluigi isn't getting in Smash because they already chose Piranha Plant." to "The examples you've given are inaccurate because of X, Y and Z reasons.".

You do this kind of **** a lot and I'm honestly getting tired of seeing you go that route time and time again. Why can't you just attack a person's argument head-on rather than shifting the entire topic to something else? And if you can't argue your terrible points well at all, why not stop making them? Like I get you feel that we won't get anyone good for this Fighter Pass, but sitting here seeing you trying to once again argue your feelings as fact is just tiresome and annoying for everyone to have to deal with.


And what if you're wrong?


Either him or Geno, really. They're the only two left who I think would be as hype as Ridley and Banjo.

Oh my God, I wasn't saying that Waluigi isn't happening because they put in Piranha Plant, Waluigi isn't happening because they don't want him AT ALL. He's constantly an Assist Trophy so that shots him down automatically for Ultimate and when Sakurai wanted to add a specific character that would fit Waluigi he chose Piranha Plant. When there is opportunity to add him they chose something else. They hear the demand and they still stick him in as an Assist. They rather have chosen a generic enemy instead of actually making Waluigi playable. Vol 2 is not going to feature Waluigi, it's going to upgrade any of the Assist Trophy. When you're an Assist you're dead for that game. Sakurai doesn't want to make Waluigi playable and the fact that he went out of his way to make a Piranha Plant playable and keeping Waluigi as an Assist is proof to that. You can go right ahead and keep believing that Waluigi is coming and TOTALLY has a chance in Vol 2, but don't be surprise when it turns out that a character that's already dead in the water stays dead.

 

[Door Key Pig]

I know Im late but this is my fav song and it came with him, Id flip

Gotta be honest, a rhythm character getting in and it not specifically being that of Nintendo's own Rhythm Heaven would hurt my soul a bit.

 

[Flyboy]

Gotta be honest, a rhythm character getting in and it not specifically being that of Nintendo's own Rhythm Heaven would hurt my soul a bit.

While I get it, it's important to understand that from a pure importance-to-gaming perspective, Taiko outshines basically every other contender except for PaRappa for inventing the genre and DDR for causing a revolution.

Like, I'm a Rhythm Heaven fan and I'm not here to cause a competition, but being first-party doesn't automatically make it the Only Choice™ especially since Nintendo has been crossing over with Taiko on the 3DS and Switch, along with Don-chan being in Mario Kart.

 

[MisterMike]

Oh my God, I wasn't saying that Waluigi isn't happening because they put in Piranha Plant, Waluigi isn't happening because they don't want him AT ALL. He's constantly an Assist Trophy so that shots him down automatically for Ultimate and when Sakurai wanted to add a specific character that would fit Waluigi he chose Piranha Plant. When there is opportunity to add him they chose something else. They hear the demand and they still stick him in as an Assist. They rather have chosen a generic enemy instead of actually making Waluigi playable. Vol 2 is not going to feature Waluigi, it's going to upgrade any of the Assist Trophy. When you're an Assist you're dead for that game. Sakurai doesn't want to make Waluigi playable and the fact that he went out of his way to make a Piranha Plant playable and keeping Waluigi as an Assist is proof to that. You can go right ahead and keep believing that Waluigi is coming and TOTALLY has a chance in Vol 2, but don't be surprise when it turns out that a character that's already dead in the water stays dead.

ok wynn

 

[Nekoo]

Guys, I'll just say that, whenever you don't like someone or his opinion, ganging up on him isn't nice at all.
Just read that opinion, agree to disagree and move on, I know it's not my place to say that, but reading through the 100~ past page was really annoying because of that.

 

[MisterHollywood]

Guys, I'll just say that, whenever you don't like someone or his opinion, ganging up on him isn't nice at all.
Just read that opinion, agree to disagree and move on, I know it's not my place to say that, but reading through the 100~ past page was really annoying because of that.

But someone liking something I don’t makes me mad

 

[Door Key Pig]

While I get it, it's important to understand that from a pure importance-to-gaming perspective, Taiko outshines basically every other contender except for PaRappa for inventing the genre and DDR for causing a revolution.

Like, I'm a Rhythm Heaven fan and I'm not here to cause a competition, but being first-party doesn't automatically make it the Only Choice™ especially since Nintendo has been crossing over with Taiko on the 3DS and Switch, along with Don-chan being in Mario Kart.

It's just that after it seemed like RH was this close to getting a character in Smash 4 it'd be irritating in their case specifically.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Guys, I'll just say that, whenever you don't like someone or his opinion, ganging up on him isn't nice at all.
Just read that opinion, agree to disagree and move on, I know it's not my place to say that, but reading through the 100~ past page was really annoying because of that.

It's not that he has a different opinion, it's that he's always negative and words it in a way where it feels as if he's trying to push it as fact and expect others to be as pessimistic as him. Sometimes he even contradicts himself and goes on about things, makes big assumptions, will ignore big parts of arguments and repeat what he's already said, or will even say something about your character being a mii costume or whatever else even when you weren't even discussing their likely-hood or whatever the heck else that would relate to them being a costume, and just seems as if he can't accept people being even the slightest bit optimistic or not thinking the same way as him about certain characters being 100% dead.

 

[Nekoo]

It's not that he has a different opinion, it's that he's always negative and words it in a way where it feels as if he's trying to push it as fact and expect others to be as pessimistic as him. Sometimes he even contradicts himself and goes on about things, or will even say something about your character being a mii costume or whatever else even when you weren't even discussing their likely-hood or whatever the heck else that would relate to them being a costume, and just seems as if he can't accept people being even the slightest bit optimistic or not thinking the same way as him about certain characters being 100% dead.

It still doesn't make ganging up on him and clowning him up right.

Once again, doesn't mean that you have to drag on the discussion and often just straigth up be mean for not reasons.
No one is right, no one is wrong. This is just a video game, agree to disagree or Ignore it, but I'm sure it all crossed the line.

He is free of his opinion, whenever you like it or not, whenever it's stupid or not, we shouldn't laugh at others or whatever, some basic respect, he's negative? Well, let him be. Especially after multiple try to talk it through.

 

[Idon]

Why are we arguing about rhythm game representation when we all know the real winner would be the plastic guitar accessory for Guitar Hero?

 

[---]

It's not that he has a different opinion, it's that he's always negative and words it in a way where it feels as if he's trying to push it as fact and expect others to be as pessimistic as him. Sometimes he even contradicts himself and goes on about things, makes big assumptions, will ignore big parts of arguments and repeat what he's already said, or will even say something about your character being a mii costume or whatever else even when you weren't even discussing their likely-hood or whatever the heck else that would relate to them being a costume, and just seems as if he can't accept people being even the slightest bit optimistic or not thinking the same way as him about certain characters being 100% dead.

https://smashboards.com/account/ignored

Will just leave this here. Taking potshots at others over some as silly as speculation is ridiculous and only makes the community and yourself look bad.

 

[Deleted member]

Why are we arguing about rhythm game representation when we all know the real winner would be the plastic guitar accessory for Guitar Hero?

Speaking of rhythm games and guitars, anybody remember that Barbara the Bat chick from Brawl?

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Here we see a JP pro smash player playing Don-chan

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

We already got rhythm game representation with DK

 

[N3ON]

No one is right, no one is wrong. This is just a video game, agree to disagree or Ignore it, but I'm sure it all crossed the line.

There's being even-handed and there's verging into reductive. If you frame what you're saying as objective and absolute, right and wrong can and often do apply. If the only options were "agree to disagree or ignore it", there'd be barely any discourse.

How other people respond to him is their prerogative, I can only control what I do, and, time and inclination permitting, unless someone's already covered what I was going to say, I'm probably going to keep replying to stuff I disagree with or find contradictory. Should moderation feel I've crossed the line I won't resist their intervention but I'm not going to stop interacting with him.

 

[MisterMike]

Guys, I'll just say that, whenever you don't like someone or his opinion, ganging up on him isn't nice at all.
Just read that opinion, agree to disagree and move on, I know it's not my place to say that, but reading through the 100~ past page was really annoying because of that.

When someone makes the claim that "X will happen.", that's not an opinion, that's a statement of fact.

Here we see a JP pro smash player playing Don-chan
View attachment 264920

What an A B S O L U T E _ U N I T .

 

[Curious Villager]

We already got rhythm game representation with DK

Too bad he lost the Bongos..

Besides the unused bongo's that got updated for some reason...

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Speaking of rhythm games and guitars, anybody remember that Barbara the Bat chick from Brawl?

I really have no idea why she was cut as an AT. It seems kinda strange.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Remember when Smash Ultimate was just announced and despite the multitude of examples of it not being a port people were all like "hURr DuRR, enHaNcED PorT!"

Personally to me it did feel like a "deluxe" port but only until more and more updates started rolling in and I mained joker.

When E3 rolled around and Hero and Banjo were announced that's when this started feeling like a new game.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

I know which one I want.

He'd be perfect for the Spiky vs Round tournament!

There was a problem fetching the tweet

 

[TheCJBrine]

https://smashboards.com/account/ignored

Will just leave this here. Taking potshots at others over some as silly as speculation is ridiculous and only makes the community and yourself look bad.

Alright, alright.

I wasn't intending to be rude nor take potshots at him, but I admit I likely overreacted and crossed a line (like I did one night; wasn't trying to be rude then either, but I guess his posts finally got to me...). It just feels as if he keeps trying to force his views on everyone, which is just rude itself...I know it's all over games, but geez, one time I wasn't even arguing nor speculating (which is why I was upset on the night I mentioned, so then it did turn into an argument...)

I actually agree with Nekoo that people shouldn't be incredibly rude and treat him like a clown/gang up on him/pressure him, being toxic; when I reply to him or say what I say, that isn't my intention, I'm just genuinely bothered for the reasons I mentioned and I don't throw insults, but I can see how others may see it that way; I guess I'll use the ignore feature if I start feeling this way again, it's not like it'd be the first time I used it...

 

[Mushroomguy12]

We already got rhythm game representation with DK

I see who the next newcomer is now!

 

[TheShiningAbsol]

Speaking of rhythm games and guitars, anybody remember that Barbara the Bat chick from Brawl?

She does have a Mii hat in Ultimate, but no matching costume, presumably for two large reasons

 

[PeridotGX]

I can barely keep up with all this speculation!

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Welp Junko leak is kill. Suspected as much:

The "leakers" that made this terrible leak have finally come out about making, but I ain't saying who made it. They don't deserve this grab for attention. If you see anyone that is talking about it, tell them it's been confirmed fake.
@MonokumaSmash pic.twitter.com/iNTMmrJeSF

— Griefing_G0lem (@griefinggolem) March 6, 2020

 

[chocolatejr9]

Welp Junko leak is kill. Suspected as much:

The "leakers" that made this terrible leak have finally come out about making, but I ain't saying who made it. They don't deserve this grab for attention. If you see anyone that is talking about it, tell them it's been confirmed fake.
@MonokumaSmash pic.twitter.com/iNTMmrJeSF

— Griefing_G0lem (@griefinggolem) March 6, 2020

*insert despair joke here*

 

[MattX20]

All we have to go off of right now is presumably getting a direct before the 17th since the Amiibo reissues and the recent announcement of the card for Season 2. I'm just hoping we get some kind of news next week.

 

[Faso115]

Oh no, it looked so real! /s

Honestly, it was fake the second a song called "Homicide" was shown in the songs included. E Rating game btw.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Travis Touchdown, Crash, Ryu Hayabusa, Phoenix Wright, 2B (There's still a chance), Geno and Neku (Now that I think Sakurai trying to implement Sora like Heihachi to their games source material might be too difficult) to be other possibilities for opening the Season Pass 2.

Translating Sora, a character from an action RPG similar to Xenoblade and Kid Icarus Uprising, to Smash would be a lot easier than Heihachi, a character from a 3D fighting game with controls unlike any other game (including those in Smash).

Furthermore, if people say adapting Heihachi wouldn't be as hard as some make it out to be, then why would Sora be any different?

Don't get me wrong, there are arguments against him, but this ain't it.