Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Deleted member]

But if he's the final character of the DLC, at that point it wouldn't matter because Super Smash Bros Ultimate would be over so the argument would be pointless.

Yeah, but at least we won’t have to deal with that argument for the DLC of future games.

 

[HansShotFirst20]

A terrible roster pick is a terrible roster pick forever.

I'm still mad about Ice Climbers!

Never forgive. Never forget.

I know you're joking, but I really don't get the people who judge characters purely on how good of a 'pick' they were. My initial reaction to Bayonetta, Isabelle, Incineroar, Piranha Plant, Hero, and Byleth was pretty negative, but I literally couldn't continue disliking them once I saw them in action. The Smash team does a good job of making any character fun to play, so in the end, I really don't think there can be a bad pick unless it's furbait Krystal.

Granted, this doesn't mean some picks aren't better than others (for example, Cloud added a richness to Smash as a crossover that another big-sworded FE character wouldn't have), but that doesn't justify hating a character because they 'took a slot away' from a character you wanted.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Hypothetically if Waluigi made it, his spirit board and stage could be tied to whatever Mario game is coming out around his release. Could be anything from a new Mario Party to Odyssey 2.

That sounds like the lamest way to integrate Waluigi ever IMO. If we're going to have to suffer Waluigi getting a full challenger pack, it better genuinely be based around him and not just a kitchen sink of recent Mario content on top of him.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Yeah, but at least we won’t have to deal with that argument for the DLC of future games.

How so? It may start again for the next game along with a new argument gate keeping characters so would it even be an improvement?

 

[CapitaineCrash]

Sakurai spoke about Chrono Trigger, why isn't anyone talking about how obvious a hint this is?

please I'll take anything I can get

Sakurai was at the gym recently, it must be a hint about Ring fit adventurer!

 

[Deleted member]

This implies the main reason why Byleth was divisive was because he was a Nintendo character and not the 8th FE character. Only a vocal minority would be upset at the inclusion of first-party DLC characters in the second pass. Heck, his AT reveal was one of the few ones the NY crowd was unhappy with (and that is saying something).

No I did not imply Byleth was hated only because he was first party. In fact, if you read my post past the part you quoted, I also noted it was another Mario character in a game filled to the brim with Mario characters.

I'm not saying Waluigi will be as hated as Byleth--or even hated by everybody. I'm saying he will be divisive, especially after five third party reveals that bring new series into Smash Bros. The lead up to Byleth had people hyping Ryu, Arle, Dante, anybody but a Nintendo rep from an already well represented franchise. You think Waluigi is going to be hype after that? The entire point of Waluigi in Smash now is it means assist trophies can be upgraded; that does nothing if he's the final character.

This isn't even getting into how base game hype and dlc hype are different fields because now people's money is on the line.

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

That sounds like the lamest way to integrate Waluigi ever IMO. If we're going to have to suffer Waluigi getting a full challenger pack, it better genuinely be based around him and not just a kitchen sink of recent Mario content on top of him.

With everything having to be solely based around Waluigi, I’m just imagining the Waluigi spirit board is like a Yugioh card with each spirit battle being a different limb.

 

[Cosmic77]

Any character can be divisive in this pass, whether they're first or third-party.

Waluigi could potentially be divisive, but he's still a character a lot of people had been requesting. New world or not, he does have the support to justify his inclusion. Third-parties don't magically get exempt from criticism just because they bring a new world. If the character doesn't appeal to many people, then yeah, they're gonna be met with some criticism. That's part of the reason why Japan was bugging out over Hero while the US was completely indifferent.

 

[Curious Villager]

Sakurai spoke about Chrono Trigger, why isn't anyone talking about how obvious a hint this is?

please I'll take anything I can get

I suppose if 2B, Sora or Geno really aren't happening because reasons.
Lara Croft and Neku aside, I suppose Chrono is an option as well, and whatever other billions of Square characters are left that I forgot about...

 

[Deleted member]

Any character can be divisive in this pass, whether they're first or third-party.

Waluigi could potentially be divisive, but he's still a character a lot of people had been requesting. New world or not, he does have the support to justify his inclusion. Third-parties don't magically get exempt from criticism just because they bring a new world. If the character doesn't appeal to many people, then yeah, they're gonna be met with some criticism. That's part of the reason why Japan was bugging out over Hero while the US was completely indifferent.

Third parties are also why the DLC has been selling phenomenally and we're getting a second season. I don't think you understand that 3rd parties utterly made last pass and are the preferred options for a reason. Waluigi ain't gonna sell this pass alone unless he's first, because that implies upgrades.

 

[Guynamednelson]

This has 8 million views and a like/dislike ratio heavily skewered in favor of likes, and people are concerned about Waluigi not being hype enough? Feels like you've forgotten that different people will be hyped for different things. Don't oversimplify it as being a one way street towards Third-Party Town.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I suppose if 2B, Sora or Geno really aren't happening because reasons.
Lara Croft and Neku aside, I suppose Chrono is an option as well, and whatever other billions of Square characters are left that I forgot about...

Sephiroth is an option but I doubt it because 1. I doubt they’d add another FFVII stage 2. Just. How FF got utterly snubbed content wise compared to DQ makes me think he doesn’t stand a chance

maybe someone from Bravely Default II to promote the upcoming game as well? Above all else tho I’d prefer Neku

 

[True Blue Warrior]

This has 8 million views and a like/dislike ratio heavily skewered in favor of likes, and people are concerned about Waluigi not being hype enough? Feels like you've forgotten that different people will be hyped for different things.

I just want to say this video is really well done.

Third parties are also why the DLC has been selling phenomenally and we're getting a second season

More DLC was announced in Banjo’s Presentation, which was finished a few days after Hero’s Presentation. We know thanks to Terry’s Presentation that each presentation takes at least one month to prepare, so at the time the only DLC characters released were .

 

[TheCJBrine]

Ice Climbers does prove that the game you're from doesn't actually have to be good (R.O.B. is a piece of hardware, so whether his games are bad or not is irrelevant).

Bubsy confirmed!

I like their game

but yes the jumping can be annoying to master at times and the levels start to feel impossible pretty soon thanks to the dang clouds and conveyor-belt ice. Still my favorite NES characters, and my favorite NES game alongside Balloon Fight and Wrecking Crew, ignoring all the big franchises’ games.

 

[Deleted member]

This has 8 million views and a like/dislike ratio heavily skewered in favor of likes, and people are concerned about Waluigi not being hype enough? Feels like you've forgotten that different people will be hyped for different things. Don't oversimplify it as being a one way street towards Third-Party Town.

Bare in mind Mathew Toranto is the parodial genius who made Brawl in the Family and that video wasn't enjoyed just because it was based around Waluigi. You're talking about us oversimplifying things when you basically just said this video was only popular because it had Waluigi. Get out of here with that.

 

[Proceleon]

Nintendo just released a video showing all the Mii Fighter Costume Packs and now I'm sad because I thought it was something new.
They can't clickbait us like that.

 

[Deleted member]

Also I feel I should clarify because this is turning into a "us vs. them, first party vs third party" argument fast.

Waluigi isn't gonna be a death sentence for Smash Bros. I believe fully well he has a fanbase, just like Byleth had his own fanbase.

When I say divisive, I DO NOT mean "WORSE THAN BYLETH AND PIRANHA PLANT, 10-90 LIKE-DISLIKE RATIO, SOCIETY COLLAPSES." No. That's ridiculous. I mean relative to other characters in the pass. That's like, "Oh no. We made $1 million off of this character instead of $2 million" or some crap like that--I don't have the statistics for Wave 1. Waluigi will probably still be fun for most people, and that's probably all that will matter at the end of the day.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Nintendo just released a video showing all the Mii Fighter Costume Packs and now I'm sad because I thought it was something new.
They can't clickbait us like that.

Got a link?

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Sephiroth is an option but I doubt it because 1. I doubt they’d add another FFVII stage 2. Just. How FF got utterly snubbed content wise compared to DQ makes me think he doesn’t stand a chance

maybe someone from Bravely Default II to promote the upcoming game as well? Above all else tho I’d prefer Neku

Honestly, I'd much rather have a FF character from a different game if they were to add another one, like Terra, Tidus, Cecil, Squall, Lightning, etc.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Honestly I'd much rather have a FF character from a different game if they were to add another one, like Terra, Tidus, Cecil, Squall, Lightning, etc.

I for one am strangely warming up to Vaan. After all the best version of Final Fantasy XII: The Zodiac Age is on Switch and Xbox One. As it has features the PC/PS4 versions don’t

 

[Megadoomer]

Got a link?

It was on the Nintendo UK Youtube channel, though Link only makes small appearances in this video:

 

[Rie Sonomura]

It was on the Nintendo UK Youtube channel, though Link only makes small appearances in this video:

What could uploading this video at all mean...?

also Rex and the Ancient Gear costumes aren’t there but I imagine that’s cause you can’t purchase them individually like the ones shown in this video

 

[Deleted member]

What could uploading this video at all mean...?

Nothing.

 

[wynn728]

Mr. Game & Watch got in before Ridley, R.O.B. got in before Mega Man, Dark Pit got in before King K. Rool. Just because a character you didn't want got in Smash before a character you did, that doesn't mean the ones you want will never get in. I don't know why you keep making terrible statements like this, Wynn. Seriously, what do you get out of it?

I don't give a crap about Waluigi getting into Smash Bros, I'm perfecting content with him being an Assist Trophy because it's so fitting for his character. Also chosing Mr. Game & Watch and R.O.B. as examples are not good comparisons.
Mr. Game & Watch is older than Mario, that series essentially started portable gaming. The Game & Watch series is a legacy, one of the pioneers of video game history. In a series of celebrating video game history of course Mr. Game & Watch had to be a part of Smash Bros.
Comparing R.O.B. to Mega Man is different because Brawl was when third parties were extremely new so not many really knew what to expect from them, except for Sonic. Like out of all the third party character that could get into Brawl Sonic had to be on the top of that list. Also Nintendo owns R.O.B. while Capcom owned Mega Man, so comparing them on how one got in first doesn't really work well due to licensing. It's going to be a lot easier getting that characters you already own in a game than it is for a character someone else owns.
As for Dark Pit and K. Rool here that thing, Sakurai made Kid Icarus Uprising and effectively made Dark Pit. Of course Sakurai's own character was going to have a better shot getting into Smash Bros, especially with him being a clone character which requires less work to make.

And lastly let's go a little in depth why Waluigi & Piranha Plant are a good comparison.
1. Nintendo owns both of the characters, so there's no difficulty in either's inclusion when compare to third party characters.
2. They both can be considered as joke characters.
3. They both fit Sakurai's description of what kind of character he wanted to include, not a hero but not the main villain (also Waluigi wasn't the main villain in Mario DDR, he was the boss of the first level but Bowser was the final boss in that game).
4. One is part of the main Mario cast where his inclusion would effectively have made every major Mario character playable in Smash Bros, and one is literally generic enemy #3.
5. Also one had fan request and the other was never asked for.
So the fact that Waluigi fill the role of what Sakurai wanted and yet still got lost to a Piranha Plant despite having a lot of things going for him is a huge indication that Waluigi is just not going to happen as a playable. It's never going to be Waluigi Time. I'm good with that.

 

[SKX31]

What could uploading this video at all mean...?

also Rex and the Ancient Gear costumes aren’t there but I imagine that’s cause you can’t purchase them individually like the ones shown in this video

It's practically a reminder that those costumes exist in the game (and one can buy them from the shop).

 

[Cosmic77]

Third parties are also why the DLC has been selling phenomenally and we're getting a second season.

No they're not. Sakurai announced additional DLC in Banjo's trailer, which was recorded only a few days after Hero's. Given how most of these presentations are prepared at least a month in advance, there's a good chance neither Hero or Banjo were announced yet.

I don't think you understand that 3rd parties utterly made last pass and are the preferred options for a reason. Waluigi ain't gonna sell this pass alone unless he's first, because that implies upgrades.

Most people don't care about which company owns a character more than the character themselves.

The success of Smash's DLC is a character-to-character thing that depends on a number of different factors including iconicness, popularity, and the character's moveset. I highly doubt anyone outside the dedicated fanbase who's deep in speculation would moan about Waluigi and jump up for joy because Arle Nadja just brought a new universe to Smash.

 

[Garteam]

If we're talking sales and impact, Waluigi would have results leaps and bounds ahead of any character that's not, like, Master Chief or Crash Bandicoot. Being a fan favourite in gaming's biggest franchise and getting memed so hard in the context of Smash that mainstream new sources pick up on it as a story gives Waluigi a brand recognition that's much higher than 95% of characters, third or first party.

We have remember that geeks like us who actively debate each other on who is the most likely to join Smash are in the vast, vast minority of overall Smash fans. The average layperson is much more likely to get hype for and buy Waluigi than even someone like Joker or Banjo.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

If we're talking sales and impact, Waluigi would have results leaps and bounds ahead of any character that's not, like, Master Chief or Crash Bandicoot. Being a fan favourite in gaming's biggest franchise and getting memed so hard in the context of Smash that mainstream new sources pick up on it as a story gives Waluigi a brand recognition that's much higher than 95% of characters, third or first party.

We have remember that geeks like us who actively debate each other on who is the most likely to join Smash are in the vast, vast majority of overall Smash fans. The average layperson is much more likely to get hype for and buy Waluigi than even someone like Joker or Banjo.

Don’t you mean minority?

 

[Garteam]

Don’t you mean minority?

Thanks, caught it and edited that.

It's been a long week. Papers season has me a little batty.

 

[krokotopia101]

How are we sure that the 2nd pack'll even consist of only 3rd party, anyway? There a confirmation because we're pretty much in the dark as to even what the 2nd pack'll consist of. There a confirmation yet?

 

[DarthEnderX]

I know you're joking

I'm actually not! I just SOUND like I am because it's so unreasonable. But those terrible roster picks will scrape across the OCD inside my skull until the end of time.

This has 8 million views and a like/dislike ratio heavily skewered in favor of likes

So? I Liked that video. Because it's a good video. That doesn't mean I want Waluigi to be in Smash.

Honestly, I'd much rather have a FF character from a different game if they were to add another one, like Terra, Tidus, Cecil, Squall, Lightning, etc.

I'm honestly torn on the subject at this point. On the one hand, I WOULD like to see more games than just FF7. On the other hand, Sephiroth is one of the most iconic villains in all of video games.

 

[scaPEGoat ~]

How are we sure that the 2nd pack'll even consist of only 3rd party, anyway? There a confirmation because we're pretty much in the dark as to even what the 2nd pack'll consist of. There a confirmation yet?

It doesn't exist, the second pack may have Nintendo characters, yes. In the First Pack Nintendo had 2 characters Piranha Plant and Byleth.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

It doesn't exist, the second pack may have Nintendo characters, yes. In the First Pack Nintendo had 2 characters Piranha Plant and Byleth.

PP wasn’t part of the first pass tho but instead individual DLC. They don’t have a stage or music

 

[Dinoman96]

How are we sure that the 2nd pack'll even consist of only 3rd party, anyway? There a confirmation because we're pretty much in the dark as to even what the 2nd pack'll consist of. There a confirmation yet?

It just makes sense because they know third parties cause more excitement than first party ones.

We may get 1-2 first parties, but I'm sure the majority of FP2 will be third party, just as FP1 and Smash 4's DLC (newcomer wise) before it was

 

[Door Key Pig]

Though he is not a FP character, I kinda like to think of Piranha Plant as "Fighter Pack 0".

It just makes sense because they know third parties will cause more excitement than first party ones.

We may get 1-2 first parties, but I'm sure the majority of FP2 will be third party, just as FP1 and Smash 4's DLC (newcomer wise) before it was

Here's hoping!

 

[Mango The Magician]

Honestly out of every single AT that could be upgraded Waluigi of all characters, who is perfectly represented in his role as a AT, being upgraded before Issac, Shadow, Knuckles, Ashley, or anyone else, all because he's a meme would be pretty dissappointing. I know the internet would love it but that's because he's a meme, and the appeal of him being in Smash would wear off after about a week.

The only benefit of him being in Smash imo is that the meme of him being a underdog that's like 99% meme and has people treating it as a 100% canonical aspect of his character, would be deader than Ugandan Knuckles within a month.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

It just makes sense because they know third parties cause more excitement than first party ones.

We may get 1-2 first parties, but I'm sure the majority of FP2 will be third party, just as FP1 and Smash 4's DLC (newcomer wise) before it was

What if we get 3 each? Equal number of both first AND third parties!

 

[Guynamednelson]

What if we get 3 each? Equal number of both first AND third parties!

But that isn't hype enough for me! And we all know they cater solely to what me and my friends find hype.

 

[SvartWolf]

Casual fans will sit there and wonder "Wait, isn't ______ already in this game?"

Can we just stop pretending than "casual" fans are going to have a mental breakdown because multiple characters?

Is fans that usually say "we already have 3 links" or "chrom is a final smash" and usually this is never really an issue.

Worst case scenario is more seasoned fans (not casuals) saying that maybe a more obscure but interesting character could been there, casual fans don't really care.

And the character pick could be the most amazing ever but still someone somewhere would say that they should have put vanilla Toad instead. So F to "some fans of the other character may whine". Of course they will.

I for one am strangely warming up to Vaan. After all the best version of Final Fantasy XII: The Zodiac Age is on Switch and Xbox One. As it has features the PC/PS4 versions don’t

Forget vaan, where is balthier with summonable Fran?

 

[Dinoman96]

Like what first party characters would even be DLC at this point?

I just can't see a new IP like Ring Fit Adventure making it in if ARMS and Astral Chain couldn't, and I just don't see Nintendo interested in including older characters that arguably missed their shot at the base roster like Dixie, Rex, Waluigi, Bandana Dee, etc. Those just feel like wishful thinking.

Honestly, Pokemon and Fire Emblem are the two IPs that make the most sense to get new characters through DLC, because they're the two Nintendo series that are constantly getting new games with new marketable characters to promote. Neither of them are very exciting prospects.

So that's basically why I'd prefer more third parties at this point in time.