Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[KillerCage]

I'm more of a Sol guy, but I don't have problems with Ragna. He's cool, and if ends being picked for Smash I will be the first one defending him from the twitter whiners, that's for sure

Despite never playing the games, I have more of an attachment to Ragna than Sol.
I have to thank people like QuarterGuy and Alex Rochon for introducing me to Blazblue.
I can never forget listening to "Awakening the Chaos" for the first time on the latter's Youtube channel.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

As Heihachi is still the main topic today, my thoughts on him are a case of "He isn't happening unless proven otherwise" as seen with Sakurai's comment on him and it's quite a shame as Tekken's really popular among my friends unlike every other fighting game I care about

To be fair Sakurai basically said in Smash 4 era that Ridley would be impossible, and he managed to do it in Ultimate. I could see Sakurai working hard to rework his Heihashi idea if he really want him.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Sorry bros here's your next fightan rep

If I can hear vibin' in smash, bring it on

 

[Cutie Gwen]

To be fair Sakurai basically said in Smash 4 era that Ridley would be impossible, and he managed to do it in Ultimate. I could see Sakurai working hard to rework his Heihashi idea if he really want him.

There's a huge difference to what those arguments were, Ridley's issue was that Sakurai struggled to make him still feel intimidating, which was easily disproven by fanmods and Sakurai himself. Heihachi's issue is more of a gameplay aspect as Sakurai's the kind of guy to add stuff that isn't needed at all but fits the source material more

Despite never playing the games, I have more of an attachment to Ragna than Sol.
I have to thank people like QuarterGuy and Alex Rochon for introducing me to Blazblue.
I can never forget listening to "Awakening the Chaos" for the first time on the latter's Youtube channel.

Oh god I remember when Alex Rochon was peanut343 or something. Time ****ing flies

 

[Wigglerman]

All I know is if Heihachi makes it into Smash, I want the Tekken Tag 2 'Arena' as the stage with 'The Strongest Iron Arena-Silver Remix', Moonlit Wilderness and Emotionless Passion (Kazua's theme traditionally) at the minimum for song tracks and Heichachi needs 3 skins. His rad outfit in Tekken 7, his classic black Gi and fundoshi, baby. (Last one will never happen but buff, nearly naked old man beating up electric rats or a space dragon would just make my life complete).

 

[DarthEnderX]

The only reason I'd want to see Ragna over Sol is because Ragna would have Bang's theme.

 

[Nemuresu]

There's a huge difference to what those arguments were, Ridley's issue was that Sakurai struggled to make him still feel intimidating, which was easily disproven by fanmods and Sakurai himself.

Not at all. Here's the article where he talked about that and I quote:

“It’d have to be shrunk down, or its wings reduced in size, or be unable to fly around freely.”

Does this sound to you like just: "he wanted him to feel intimidating"? Because it pretty much sounds like he was talking about a gameplay perspective.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Not at all. Here's the article where he talked about that and I quote:

Does this sound to you like just: "he wanted him to feel intimidating"? Because it pretty much sounds like he was talking about a gameplay perspective?

The whole "He wouldn't feel like Ridley anymore" and Ridley's size always being imposing suggested that Sakurai's initial vision of the character had to be like that as Ridley is honestly kind of terrifying when compared to most of Nintendo's villains, similar to how Bowser's still got a bit of that self-interpreted characterization from Sakurai. Considering I've yet to see any Tekken fans try to figure out how to make Tekken's control scheme work, I feel it's harder

 

[Nemuresu]

The whole "He wouldn't feel like Ridley anymore" and Ridley's size always being imposing suggested that Sakurai's initial vision of the character had to be like that as Ridley is honestly kind of terrifying when compared to most of Nintendo's villains, similar to how Bowser's still got a bit of that self-interpreted characterization from Sakurai. Considering I've yet to see any Tekken fans try to figure out how to make Tekken's control scheme work, I feel it's harder

Not any different of a compromise than any of the other fighting game characters. I fail to see how are "limb buttons" any more of a big deal than "six or four attack buttons".

 

[Wunderwaft]

I don't feel comfortable with Heihachi incorporating his Tekken moveset into Smash. If you have fundamentally alter the controls of Smash Bros to make him work, it would destroy the appeal of Smash in my eyes. Granted Terry was able to incorporate a back special into his moveset as well as two super specials, but he doesn't break Smash's approachability as I fear Heihachi would.

One man's trash is another man's treasure. I understand you may not like Smash's controls being pushed to their absolute limits but there are people who do. I, for one, am interested in just how far Heihachi can implement his Tekken mechanics in Smash while still fitting with the rest of the roster. Sure, if Heihachi gets in Smash he may not be easy to play, but Tekken itself isn't easy to play. It wouldn't be true to the soul of Tekken if Heihachi was simple and easy to play. I find myself interested in complex and mechanically intricate characters, it makes me want to see just how far I can push them. I get you might not like it, but at the end of the day it's just one character, it's not like we're gonna see Heihachi mirror grand finals at Evo lol.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Not any different of a compromise than any of the other fighting game characters. I fail to see how are "limb buttons" any more of a big deal than "six or four attack buttons".

Fighting games have increased and decreased buttons all the time, limb buttons is also a system unique to Tekken last I checked, which is vastly different control scheme when compared to traditional FG controls you have your LPs and HKs and whatever but those are still punches and kicks, the limb system clearly matters to Sakurai as seen by the fact he felt it's needed for Heihachi

 

[Wigglerman]

As for the Tekken control scheme to work, I think the concession would be to not focus on the limb system as it'd be needlessly convoluted. I'd focus more on implementing mechanics outside of that to Heihachi. Things like the dash system (Like Terry/Ryu/Ken the initial tap dash can be the 'korean wavedash' but when held he does a normal run), the run tackle/pummel, wall splats (on his unique stage, that being a stage mechanic as opposed to Heihachi specific), his electrics, Tekken unique parry system, corkscrew combo extenders, Standing attacks/crouch attacks/while rising attacks, etc.

 

[Flyboy]

Plus, I'll be real, I want Heihachi because he's cool. We don't have a badass old man outside of Ganondorf yet and Heihachi can also bring in super brutal, hard-hitting fisticuffs and great rushdown and pressure mechanics. Gimme his old man look and a Tekken 7 alt and I'm set.

 

[waddledeeonredyoshi]

About the "protagonists first" thing, what about Hollow Knight?

The Knight is the protagonist of the first game, while Hornet is the protagonist of the second game, but also has a major role in the first one. The knight has basic swordman gameplay, with some similarities to what Link can usually do; Hornet's gameplay is more unique.

The Knight is probably a bit more important for being the face of the first game and where the series started, but Hornet is a main character too, and the new game that will be released on Switch will feature her as the main character, so it would also be a way to promote the game.

So, do you think they would go for the Knight because it's the original protagonist, or Hornet because it's the protagonist of the new game and has more unique gameplay?

Team Cherry isn't really a buisness like Nintendo or other third-parties so I don't think Hornet being able to promote Silksong would matter much. The game's likely gonna do well regardless.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Plus, I'll be real, I want Heihachi because he's cool. We don't have a badass old man outside of Ganondorf yet and Heihachi can also bring in super brutal, hard-hitting fisticuffs and great rushdown and pressure mechanics. Gimme his old man look and a Tekken 7 alt and I'm set.

Ganondorf isn't even an old man anymore

 

[Garteam]

While Sakurai did say in the past he couldn't figure out a way to get Heihachi work, that was in 2012. It's 2020, and the following years we've had characters like Ryu, Bayonetta, and Hero bring complex mechanics to Smash. Sakurai has had plenty of experience developing complex characters, so I don't see the limb system being the major roadblock it once was.

 

[AceAttorney9000]

I'm gonna be disappointed if Heihachi is revealed and his trailer doesn't pit him against Link for a Soulcalibur II nod.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I'm gonna be disappointed if Heihachi is revealed and his trailer doesn't pit him against Link for a Soulcalibur II nod.

Considering we didn't even get Ken in Terry's trailer I'd prepare for disappointment

 

[Schnee117]

Heihachi's trailer should have him beating up all the other Smash Dads because they didn't toss their kids off a mountain

 

[Wigglerman]

Considering we didn't even get Ken in Terry's trailer I'd prepare for disappointment

Ken already had his hands full dealing with Incineroar and got blasted into a wall. He was in no shape to be meeting up with Terry.

 

[Nemuresu]

Fighting games have increased and decreased buttons all the time, limb buttons is also a system unique to Tekken last I checked, which is vastly different control scheme when compared to traditional FG controls you have your LPs and HKs and whatever but those are still punches and kicks,

Tekken's buttons are still punches and kicks, just that instead of being mapped by their strength, they're mapped by limbs. And if it serves any purpose, Akuma and Geese Howard still have their classic command inputs in it with not that much difference from their original homologues.

the limb system clearly matters to Sakurai as seen by the fact he felt it's needed for Heihachi

He's what Sakurai said about him:

"There were none. We basically thought of all the characters at the start of development. We decided on characters we knew we could make. However, there were a few in consideration, such as Heihachi from Tekken….However, implementing Heihachi’s movement in Smash would be difficult…”

Now, what he meant by "movement" is anybody's guess (to me, this sounds more like implementing side steps and the likes), but we're talking about a pre-Ryu comment, and by this point, Sakurai has already included three different fighting game character, the latests of which had to get a brand-new attack just to have an up aerial and got his own command inputs compromised due to Smash's limited control scheme.

 

[AreJay25]

Tekken's Spirit Board should just have Akuma in it.

Not even a new one, just the one that's already in the game.

 

[Wigglerman]

Tekken's buttons are still punches and kicks, just that instead of being mapped by their strength, they're mapped by limbs. And if it serves any purpose, Akuma and Geese Howard still have their classic command inputs in it with not that much difference from their original homologues.

He's what Sakurai said about him:

Now, what he meant by "movement" is anybody's guess (to me, this sounds more like implementing side steps and the likes), but we're talking about a pre-Ryu comment, and by this point, Sakurai has already included three different fighting game character, the latests of which had to get a brand-new attack just to have an up aerial and got his own command inputs compromised due to Smash's limited control scheme.

This is what I presumed as well. The only 'movement' option that seemed out of the question was sidestepping as Smash, obviously, lacks the ability to travel into the fore/background. However Tekken movement outside of that is pretty basic and no more complex than any other fighting game. The complexity of Tekken button mapping could be forsaken as I mentioned in my other post to focus more on general Tekken aspects. Limb system and side stepping would be two casualties to introduce a dozen others unique to Tekken.

 

[3BitSaurus]

I don't feel comfortable with Heihachi incorporating his Tekken moveset into Smash. If you have fundamentally alter the controls of Smash Bros to make him work, it would destroy the appeal of Smash in my eyes. Granted Terry was able to incorporate a back special into his moveset as well as two super specials, but he doesn't break Smash's approachability as I fear Heihachi would.

I don't think Heihachi would break Smash's accessibility. That one moveset with the diagonal tilts doesn't, for example. It adds complexity, but you're still playing Smash.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Heihachi's trailer should have him beating up all the other Smash Dads because they didn't toss their kids off a mountain

Ohhh noooo

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Considering we didn't even get Ken in Terry's trailer I'd prepare for disappointment

But he was in the trailer though, Terry taunts at him and Ryu.

 

[shinhed-echi]

For Tekken mechanics I was thinking... well,
Haven’t played much, but if there’s a button for every limb then...

A: Left Punch
Utilt: Right Punch
Ftilt: Left Kick
Dtilt: Right Kick.

Now depending on the input order, each limb does something different.

Like if you first press Left Punch, then right Punch, right Punch is no longer straight, but it’s an upoercut.

So basically, it would go like this:

[Left Arm]
A1 = Jab
A2 = Straight
A3 = Fierce uppercut

[Right Arm]
Utilt1 = Sweeping Hand upwards
Utilt2 = Straight
Utilt3 = Fierce palm strike

[Left Leg]
Ftilt 1 = Slapping kick to face
Ftilt 2 = Reverse slapping kick to face
Ftilt 3 = Donkey Kick to body

[Right Leg]
Dtilt 1 = Sweep leg kick
Dtilt 2 = Body Kick
Dtilt 3 = Axe kick


(Have no idea how Heihachi’s moves look like, but this was just the general idea).
This could probably be the most hardcore of all moveset, since while grounded, it’s 3 moveset in 1.

But the idea is to mix and match the inputs. If you just mash the same button 3 times, it’ll be slow l. But by combining certain combination of buttons, you create faster and more effective combos.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Tekken's Spirit Board should just have Akuma in it.

Not even a new one, just the one that's already in the game.

Don't forget about geese.

 

[Hypercat-Z]

You know he's possible

since his game has been converted even for NES, while in a very messy way.
And so we would have even a laser games rep.

 

[P.Kat]

Sorry bros here's your next fightan rep

Hey this character is pretty cool if I wasn't already rooting for Zeta I'd...

Lowain: Hey Zeta come back when you can actually fight.

Send his ass back to the kitchen.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Never would happen. Scorpion's the face they'd obviously go with him first. The reason Sub-Zero got into Injustice 2 was due to Scorpion being in the first one. Given Scorpion hasn't never been in a Smash game he'll obviously be the one they go with.

Also Heihachi cameoing as Pac-Man's taunt I don't count as an deconfirmation.

I'd count that taunt as a deconfirmation since he’s being repped through it

 

[I.D.]

Hey this character is pretty cool if I wasn't already rooting for Zeta I'd...

Lowain: Hey Zeta come back when you can actually fight.

Send his ass back to the kitchen.

He has a point. Zeta has been historically one of the worst characters in Granblue.

 

[perfectchaos83]

He has a point. Zeta has been historically one of the worst characters in Granblue.

Top Tier Waifu, though

 

[I.D.]

Top Tier Waifu, though

You people are so boring

 

[nessdeltarune00]

I know he will likely never happen considering the situation for Shovel Knight, Sans, ect.

But who else would be extremely hyped if Jacket from Hotline Miami ever got in even as a detailed Mii Costume with a music track? (Let alone a full fighter pack)

 

[Garteam]

I'd count that taunt as a deconfirmation since he’s being repped through it

Yes, a 20 pixel cameo in another character's moveset is truly representation equal to being a playable fighter.

 

[Faso115]

I'm on the belief that if the appeal of a game relies on things like nudity or gore, then its probably unlikely to make it to smash.

Thats partly why i dont support Doomslayer, because he would be severely neutered while if he was in something like MK it wouldnt be that big of a problem

 

[snowgolem]

Any leaks or deconfirmations, or any other noteworthy thing happen recently?

 

[AceAttorney9000]

I'd count that taunt as a deconfirmation since he’s being repped through it

Well, I hope your most wanted character isn't The Prince of All Cosmos or Don-chan...

 

[nessdeltarune00]

Any leaks or deconfirmations, or any other noteworthy thing happen recently?

Nope.

And given the way things are shaping up right now, it may stay that way for the next 4-5 months.