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Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

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mynameisBlade

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If Sakurai really wants to impress everyone..he'd just get Scorpion or Sub-Zero from MK. Giving us >>MK X STREET FIGHTER<< damn near beats everything else IMO.

Despite MK games being banned in who cares where.
 
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Garteam

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Crash isn't owned by Sony. He never was.
Doesn't Sony have partial ownership of the source code for the PS1 Crash games? I think that's really the ownership they have over the character.

Even then, that doesn't really matter, as I'm assuming the N. Sane Trilogy will mostly replace the originals when future rereleases come up.
 

EricTheGamerman

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Even though they're arguably the most fitting characters for Smash, I kinda don't want to get any more characters in Ultimate from fighting games. I'm not sure if I can explain it properly. They just feel...boring I guess?

I don't know. If Heihachi gets in, I won't be upset. He'll just be another one of those, "Okay, I'm already wanting to see the next character," reveals.
Do the unique mechanics of those fighters not interest you? Like on the surface I totally get them not looking interesting, but I always find them to be among the most mechanically interesting once you get some time with them and understand just how much variation they give to the player despite a plain looking moveset.

I'm not trying to persuade you, just genuinely curious.
 

Garteam

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I think the reason Heihachi is more heavily predicted than Jin and Kazuya is simply because he's been considered in the past. That alone basically confirms that Sakurai would go to Heihachi first for Tekken.
 

Michael the Spikester

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I think the reason Heihachi is more heavily predicted than Jin and Kazuya is simply because he's been considered in the past. That alone basically confirms that Sakurai would go to Heihachi first for Tekken.
And because he's he mascot, face and icon of the franchise AND appearing in more crossovers then the other two.
 

Cutie Gwen

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Do the unique mechanics of those fighters not interest you? Like on the surface I totally get them not looking interesting, but I always find them to be among the most mechanically interesting once you get some time with them and understand just how much variation they give to the player despite a plain looking moveset.

I'm not trying to persuade you, just genuinely curious.
I think it's because they're easy to adapt, despite people often going "OH MY MOST WANTED IS PERFECT FOR SMASH THEY'D BE SO EASY TO SEE". If it's not a character you'te even remotely interested in, you wouldn't care about how they're adapted in Smash
 

P.Kat

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Random question of the day: what if we do get a Capcom character, but instead of Dante or Phoenix, it's Ruby Heart, Amingo and Sonson as one character, representing the Capcom Vs. series?

It's the biggest of never evers from Capcom imo, but I gotta say... I would love the idea.
I wouldn't feel too bad. I'd be hype if Sonson got in her finshers are hilarious plus that mean we get a character that uses a bo staff
 

Cosmic77

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Do the unique mechanics of those fighters not interest you? Like on the surface I totally get them not looking interesting, but I always find them to be among the most mechanically interesting once you get some time with them and understand just how much variation they give to the player despite a plain looking moveset.

I'm not trying to persuade you, just genuinely curious.
I think it's a mix between them being visually boring and me feeling like they're pretty vanilla characters compared to other options in their franchise.

I don't know too much about KoF, but I do remember a few people who were familiar with the franchise complaining about Terry being one of the most boring choices. I guess that's kind of how I feel too?
 

Garteam

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If Sakurai really wants to impress everyone..he'd just get Scorpion or Sub-Zero from MK. Giving us >>MK X STREET FIGHTER<< damn near beats everything else IMO.

Despite MK games being banned in who cares where.
Keep in mind, that's only really a western thing. In Japan, the big fighting game crossover would rather be Street Fighter x Tekken or Street Fighter x KoF.
 

Hadokeyblade

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Keep in mind, that's only really a western thing. In Japan, the big fighting game crossover would rather be Street Fighter x Tekken or Street Fighter x KoF.
The simple solution here is to reveal both Heihachi AND Scorpion at E3.

The east and west's ultimate fighting crossover.
 

Will

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The simple solution here is to reveal both Heihachi AND Scorpion at E3.

The east and west's ultimate fighting crossover.
Or they could replace MK with Killer Instinct, another Rare character.

 

P.Kat

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I'd rather have Jin over Heihachi to be honest, and I'd rather have Ling Xiaoyu over Jin any day. At this point, if we have to have a character from another fighting game, I'd like one that uses Chinese Kung-Fu like Ling or Chun-Li or one that uses a bo staff to fight like Kilik from Soul Calibur.
 

Garteam

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The simple solution here is to reveal both Heihachi AND Scorpion at E3.

The east and west's ultimate fighting crossover.
A Heihachi trailer which segways into a Scorpion trailer would be extremely hype, not gonna lie.

That being said, I do think fighting game characters should be a relatively rare thing. Part of their appeal is their specific mechanics which make them play unlike the rest of the roster. Go to gung ho with adding them and you risk eliminating that unique feeling they have.
 

Flik

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This thread moves way too fast for me, especially in this heat :ohwell:

If any Tekken character gets in it will be Heihachi.

Same reason as:ultryu:and:ult_terry:being the mascot of their fighting games just as Scorpion would being the face of Mortal Kombat as with Nightmare with Soulcalibur. Why is this even an argument?

Plus the whole "Protagonist first" is another so called fan-made rule that Sakurai will eventually break as usual.
There's no such thing as Protagonist first "rule", just a 20 year old patern that had one exception because Pokemon.

I'm just bringing up a possility when most people are not. As someone who vastly prefer Kazuya or Jin and also thinks they'd be far more fun to play as (in Smash) in spite of not being as reconizable as heihachi (which is supposed to be the most important thing), I'm just hoping that Sakurai reconsider what he said 5 years ago and see that we CAN have a proper Tekken representant that isn't the old man but actually fits nicely. Yoshimitsu would be the man for it, but I don't see it ever happening so whatever.

The more I read about heihachi in smash the more I dislike the idea, I better stop reading for now.
 
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Hadokeyblade

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This thread moves way too fast for me, especially in this heat :ohwell:



There's no such thing as Protagonist first "rule", just a 20 year old patern that had one exception because Pokemon.

I'm just bringing up a possility when most people are not. As someone who vastly prefer Kazuya or Jin and also thinks they'd be far more fun to play as (in Smash) in spite of not being as reconizable as heihachi (which is supposed to be the most important thing), I'm just hoping that Sakurai reconsider what he said 5 years ago and see that we CAN have a proper Tekken representant that isn't the old man but actually fits nicely. Yoshimitsu would be the man for it, but I don't see it ever happening so whatever.

The more I read about heihachi in smash the more I dislike the idea, I better stop reading for now.
If they were truly strict over such a rule we probably would have gotten Warrior of light, DQ1's hero and "Boy with the ear ring" instead of Cloud, Luminary and Joker.
 

MarioRaccoon

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MK creator, Ed Boon is a Nintendo fanboy, so I think that there would be no problem from a license point to include Scorpion as a fighter in Smash. MK nowdays is the best selling fighting game IP besides Smash in the west. Moreover, the idea of Street Fighter vs Mortal Kombat is the dream from anyone who was a kid at the 90’s. But as someone said before, theirs games are 0 popular in Japan.

So I think that if we ever get something from MK, it will be a Mii Costume. I have a feeling that smash team recognizes fan demand for some pure-western IPs (like Rayman or Assasins Creed), but they feel that is also necessary to be popular worldwide to be a playable character, not just in one side of the globe.
 

3BitSaurus

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I wouldn't feel too bad. I'd be hype if Sonson got in her finshers are hilarious plus that mean we get a character that uses a bo staff
Plus, if she got in, we'd have a Wukong-inspired character, plus a Toriyama-style character in Hero and the american voice of Goku in Lucario. All we'd need is Goku's japanese VA and the ritual would be complete.

But yeah, the movesets for her, Ruby Heart and Amingo practically write themselves. The more I think about it, the more I like the idea.
 

AntagonisticGalaxyCetacea

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MK creator, Ed Boon is a Nintendo fanboy, so I think that there would be no problem from a license point to include Scorpion as a fighter in Smash. MK nowdays is the best selling fighting game IP besides Smash in the west. Moreover, the idea of Street Fighter vs Mortal Kombat is the dream from anyone who was a kid at the 90’s. But as someone said before, theirs games are 0 popular in Japan.

So I think that if we ever get something from MK, it will be a Mii Costume. I have a feeling that smash team recognizes fan demand for some pure-western IPs (like Rayman or Assasins Creed), but they feel that is also necessary to be popular worldwide to be a playable character, not just in one side of the globe.
I always thought it'd be cool if we got the UMK3 ninja outfit as a Mii Costume, and it came selectable with all of the ninja palettes.
 

Dinoman96

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Honestly, Mortal Kombat's problem isn't that it's just not as popular in Japan. It's just the fact that it basically flat out doesn't exist in Japan. At least something like DOOM has games that come out there.

Could you imagine Sakurai covering the history of Mortal Kombat in Scorpion's demonstration vid and telling his JP audiences that "yeah, you can only play these games through imports lol". Like for pete's sake, StarTropics is a first party Nintendo IP and it doesn't get acknowledgement in Smash at all (not even a sticker or a spirit) because the games were never released in Japan.
 
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Cutie Gwen

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Honestly, Mortal Kombat's problem isn't that it's just not as popular in Japan. It's just the fact that it basically flat out doesn't exist in Japan. At least something like DOOM has games that come out there.

Could you imagine Sakurai covering the history of Mortal Kombat in Scorpion's demonstration vid and telling his JP audiences that "yeah, you can only play these games through imports lol". Like for pete's sake, StarTropics is a first party Nintendo IP and it doesn't get acknowledgement in Smash at all (not even a sticker or a spirit) because the games were never released in Japan.
At the same time, MK is a juggernaut, I don't care for it much but Startropics wishes it had even a fraction of MK's legacy
 

Will

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It's just the fact that it basically flat out doesn't exist in Japan.
MKX is in Japan, they just didn't bring 11 because NR was like "oh man that's a lot of censoring we dont wanna do we're outta here"
 

MisterMike

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I wouldn't mind seeing Heihachi get in at all. I just hope if he does get in that he comes with young and old variants. Also, maybe an Orge Mii Costume with his theme from Street Fighter X Tekken. Never played Tekken, but goddamn that theme is fire.

How hard is it to accept that women exist on the internet. I'm so ****ing tired of people seeing someone called Gwen and go "yup this is absolutely, undeniably a man".
I don't really care, ma'am.

Just because doxxing yourself is seen as super smart in the Geno thread doesn't mean I'm willing to endanger multiple of my irl friends.
When you said you knew people who were 3D modelers, my first thought was professional 3D graphic designers who have their own publicly available portfolio. That's why I was suggesting you present names and ****. I had no idea that you were talking about your discord buddies. But either way, I don't really care. I'm not going to believe someone when they say "lol my friends are experts on this subject and they agree with me so you're wrong!!1".

This whole ****ing debate is stupid because the fact you can't replicate a model is being 'debunked' because "yuh huh you can I said so"
If someone went to all the trouble of modding those costumes in to begin with, it's possible for someone to replicate them. I don't know why you seem to think it's impossible when we have two videos and a very clear image to work with.

and that it's not even the strongest argument in favour of Cacomallow being dead but rather the debug timer not matching up with the actual debug timer and the fact the costumes were the only things shown.
The debug timer could've been modified from when we saw it in the Ken Leak. I mean, small changes like that happen all the time in game development. For example, Ridley and Pichu's HUD icons were originally cropped in earlier versions of the game. And I don't think that there only being these two costumes and nothing else is really a strike against it. Because the person who originially shared this was an anon on 4chan, we don't have any way to say anything definitive about that one way or the other. Maybe it was faked, and those were the only stages/characters they could choose from, or maybe it's real, and those choices mean literally nothing. You're free to feel that that makes it less likely in your subjective opinion, but unless you have something more solid to point to, then you're not going to be able to prove anything to anyone.

There are two types of people.

Those who believe Cacomallow is real.

Those who accepted Santa isn't real when they were in their early teens.
There are two types of people.
  1. People who are open-minded and willing to entertain and argue the validity of potential leaks that look arguably real.
  2. People who want to quickly dismiss every potential leak that comes up because the answers aren't coming fast enough.
I miss the days when speculation was about analysis and arguing the points within reason rather than just dismissing everything out of hand that isn't immediately proven correct. I swear, this generation of Smash fans wouldn't be able to stand anything close to what we had to deal with during the Brawl days, where a new character would potentially be revealed once every 6-8 months. Everyone needs that instant gratification, that quick dopamine hit, or else they'll get all antsy and start screeching like a battered monkey in a jug full of pissed-off hornets.

But the geno thread says that since its been so long and not touched, it has to be real. It had to be real s/
I don't think that it not being disproven for so long inherently means it's real by any means, given that development of a character from conception to release typically takes upwards of a year. Just recently, it was confirmed by some folks at Rare that talks for Banjo & Kazooie in Smash began around E3 2018. Compared to that, the CacoMallow Post was basically made last Thursday.

I hate to talk ill of the geno thread but... they could do with a good vibe check which they would 100% fail because of there" Only Geno here, no one else, only geno" and kinda culty attitude towards a certain user and geno in general.
I wouldn't say it's accurate to characterize the Geno thread as entirely Geno and nothing else, since we've been warned by mods several times to keep discussion on topic. And I can see why people have problems with rotund gentleman in cold waters and believe that everyone there is a bootlicker, though I think that's a bit of a mischaracterization. Liking someone's theories doesn't mean you believe them to be infallible, and perhaps this is just me, but I don't really see many people saying that they do completely take his words as gospel.

and again I hate to talk ill about the geno thread and I know yall are here lurking, dont take it personal
No worries man, we cool. I totally understand having issues with the thread, hell I even have some issues with it myself. If you'd like we could discuss this through DMs.

I don't know if someone has posted Sakurai's latest pic.
Man, I'd kill to have his dev tools, just so I could do cool **** like this.
Just kidding, I'm an unimaginative doofus.
 

Cutie Gwen

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I wouldn't mind seeing Heihachi get in at all. I just hope if he does get in that he comes with young and old variants. Also, maybe an Orge Mii Costume with his theme from Street Fighter X Tekken. Never played Tekken, but goddamn that theme is fire.


I don't really care, ma'am.


When you said you knew people who were 3D modelers, my first thought was professional 3D graphic designers who have their own publicly available portfolio. That's why I was suggesting you present names and ****. I had no idea that you were talking about your discord buddies. But either way, I don't really care. I'm not going to believe someone when they say "lol my friends are experts on this subject and they agree with me so you're wrong!!1".


If someone went to all the trouble of modding those costumes in to begin with, it's possible for someone to replicate them. I don't know why you seem to think it's impossible when we have two videos and a very clear image to work with.


The debug timer could've been modified from when we saw it in the Ken Leak. I mean, small changes like that happen all the time in game development. For example, Ridley and Pichu's HUD icons were originally cropped in earlier versions of the game. And I don't think that there only being these two costumes and nothing else is really a strike against it. Because the person who originially shared this was an anon on 4chan, we don't have any way to say anything definitive about that one way or the other. Maybe it was faked, and those were the only stages/characters they could choose from, or maybe it's real, and those choices mean literally nothing. You're free to feel that that makes it less likely in your subjective opinion, but unless you have something more solid to point to, then you're not going to be able to prove anything to anyone.


There are two types of people.
  1. People who are open-minded and willing to entertain and argue the validity of potential leaks that look arguably real.
  2. People who want to quickly dismiss every potential leak that comes up because the answers aren't coming fast enough.
I miss the days when speculation was about analysis and arguing the points within reason rather than just dismissing everything out of hand that isn't immediately proven correct. I swear, this generation of Smash fans wouldn't be able to stand anything close to what we had to deal with during the Brawl days, where a new character would potentially be revealed once every 6-8 months. Everyone needs that instant gratification, that quick dopamine hit, or else they'll get all antsy and start screeching like a battered monkey in a jug full of pissed-off hornets.


I don't think that it not being disproven for so long inherently means it's real by any means, given that development of a character from conception to release typically takes upwards of a year. Just recently, it was confirmed by some folks at Rare that talks for Banjo & Kazooie in Smash began around E3 2018. Compared to that, the CacoMallow Post was basically made last Thursday.


I wouldn't say it's accurate to characterize the Geno thread as entirely Geno and nothing else, since we've been warned by mods several times to keep discussion on topic. And I can see why people have problems with rotund gentleman in cold waters and believe that everyone there is a bootlicker, though I think that's a bit of a mischaracterization. Liking someone's theories doesn't mean you believe them to be infallible, and perhaps this is just me, but I don't really see many people saying that they do completely take his words as gospel.


No worries man, we cool. I totally understand having issues with the thread, hell I even have some issues with it myself. If you'd like we could discuss this through DMs.


Man, I'd kill to have his dev tools, just so I could do cool **** like this.
Just kidding, I'm an unimaginative doofus.
Because you clearly won't accept any answer other than doxxing my personal friends, online and offline, I've got no interest in arguing with you.

Oh, the debug timer 'could' have changed? Why don't you show me? After all, if you're presenting the possibility, you need actual evidence beyond "I want it to be real so therefore it must be real". If you have no actual arguments, I suggest you either grab evidence that they changed the debug menu or shut up. If you fail to provide actual evidence beyond yet another delusion that has already been disproven by many, I'll just stop listening to whatever you say
 

perfectchaos83

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We know for a fact Sakurai was close to breaking protagonist first with Alucard instead of Belmont.

When you think of Tekken, Heihachi is the first name that pops up like how Nightmare is the first SC character you think of and Scorpion for MK
Let's be fair here. Castlevania has it's own plethora of Protagonists, Alucard included. He may not be a belmont, but he's still absolutely a protagonist of the Castelvania series alongside Simon and Richter.

MKX is in Japan, they just didn't bring 11 because NR was like "oh man that's a lot of censoring we dont wanna do we're outta here"
MKX is in Japan really only by nature of it being Region free on Steam. NRS games don't sell in Japan either, Injustice failed and they didn't even bring the sequel to Japan. It's far more than "We don't want to censor"
 

Cutie Gwen

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Let's be fair here. Castlevania has it's own plethora of Protagonists, Alucard included. He may not be a belmont, but he's still absolutely a protagonist of the Castelvania series alongside Simon and Richter.



MKX is in Japan really only by nature of it being Region free on Steam. NRS games don't sell in Japan either, Injustice failed and they didn't even bring the sequel to Japan. It's far more than "We don't want to censor"
There's a reason everyone said Simon when speculating on CastleVania in Smash though, not once did I see Alucard, Eric, Johnathon, Charlotte, Shanoa, Soma, you get the idea
 

mynameisBlade

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MK isn't banned, who the hell keeps convincing people this
That's honestly what I keep hearing from so many people. Every time I suggest Scorpion, the only responses I get are that the games are banned or hated in Japan. If that isn't the case though... THIS HAS TO HAPPEN!!
 

Opossum

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There's a reason everyone said Simon when speculating on CastleVania in Smash though, not once did I see Alucard, Eric, Johnathon, Charlotte, Shanoa, Soma, you get the idea
It's anecdotal, sure, but I definitely saw Alucard come up a few times. Far less frequently than Simon, mind you, but still there.
 

perfectchaos83

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There's a reason everyone said Simon when speculating on CastleVania in Smash though, not once did I see Alucard, Eric, Johnathon, Charlotte, Shanoa, Soma, you get the idea
I've said Alucard and I'm sure most Castelvania fans would have preferred it that way. I'd also say that it's very likely why Richter was chosen to be in too since he's the fan favorite Belmont over Simon.
 

Herocin

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If any Tekken character gets in it will be Heihachi.

Same reason as:ultryu:and:ult_terry:being the mascot of their fighting games just as Scorpion would being the face of Mortal Kombat as with Nightmare with Soulcalibur. Why is this even an argument?

Plus the whole "Protagonist first" is another so called fan-made rule that Sakurai will eventually break as usual.
Sakurai usually just goes for the character who would embody the series best. Although Slime was the mascot Hero was the go to choice if it came to a dragon quest rep as slime is just a generic enemy you don’t play as excluding spinoffs. Heihachi and other Tekken characters iirc don’t have one over the other aside from one being the mascot so they’d pick the mascot which is Heihachi. I’d argue the protagonist first fanrule isn’t even seriously used and arguably doesn’t exist. It just happens that the protagonist is the mascot of their games and best represents them which you can’t say surprises you. Of course Sonic is the embodiment and mascot of his own series for instance
 
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Idon

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It's anecdotal, sure, but I definitely saw Alucard come up a few times. Far less frequently than Simon, mind you, but still there.
Yeah, because he's a fan favorite character, not because he's had a snowball's chance in hell of being playable.

It'd be like putting in Zero over Megaman X...

Oh wait.
 

Professor Pumpkaboo

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No worries man, we cool. I totally understand having issues with the thread, hell I even have some issues with it myself. If you'd like we could discuss this through DMs.
Phew, Im glad you understand, I try to be nice to the thread but there are a few users there that make it hard and well... the attitude toword Sora is also a big reason why Im a bit sour to the thread. Not sure I like seeing people cheer for sora being "Decomfirmed" then pull the "If it were us" card but yeah, if you do wanna speak about this over DMs, Im more then willing, buddy
 
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frozolloyd

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I don't think that it not being disproven for so long inherently means it's real by any means, given that development of a character from conception to release typically takes upwards of a year. Just recently, it was confirmed by some folks at Rare that talks for Banjo & Kazooie in Smash began around E3 2018. Compared to that, the CacoMallow Post was basically made last Thursday.

Just kidding, I'm an unimaginative doofus.
This means absolutely nothing. Of course negotiations start at least a year in advance, they have to work out all the details, such as licensing and pay. I see you keep using this example, but this tells us absolutely nothing about when they actually started WORKING on the character or mii costumes. In fact we know for a fact they didn't start working on Banjo immediately considering the datamines last winter only showed Joker and "Brave". Unless you can bring some actual proof they were actually working on Banjo over a year in advance, no we can't actually assume they started working on Banjo around E3 2018. I apologize if I misunderstood what you were implying.
And out of curiosity, what is your cutoff for how long to entertain this leak? If the costumes don't arrive in the next 2 waves of DLC (assuming this is another 6 month time, which is generous), are you still going to say "Yeah, Sakurai started working on mii costumes almost a year in advance." At what point do you think the leak "times out"?
 
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Cutie Gwen

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This means absolutely nothing. Of course negotiations start at least a year in advance, they have to work out all the details, such as licensing and pay. I see you keep using this example, but this tells us absolutely nothing about when they actually started WORKING on the character or mii costumes. In fact we know for a fact they didn't start working on Banjo immediately considering the datamines last winter only showed Joker and "Brave". Unless you can bring some actual proof they were actually working on Banjo over a year in advance, no we can't actually assume they started working on Banjo around E3 2018. I apologize if I misunderstood what you were implying.
And out of curiosity, what is your cutoff for how long to entertain this leak? If the costumes don't arrive in the next 2 waves of DLC (assuming this is another 6 month time, which is generous), are you still going to say "Yeah, Sakurai started working on mii costumes almost a year in advance." At what point do you think the leak "times out"?
Tbf Sakurai himself said he was working on the third fighter pass character in March, although that was long after dataminers found Brave
 
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