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Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

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Professor Pumpkaboo

Lady Layton| Trap Queen♥
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... Does the term boomer mean something different nowadays or are you guys just misusing it? My grandparents are boomers. They have no idea what Banjo-Kazooie or Super Smash Bros. even are. At best, they could probably identify Mario, Pac-Man, and maybe Pikachu in a line up of Smash fighters.

Why do I keep hearing people under 30 referring to anyone over 30 as a boomer? I don't understand the youth of today. Now get off my lawn.
Yeah, its being pretty misused now that its become" Your old, shut up"

people just say ok boomer now to shut up old people, even if they arent old, which isnt good
 
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Professor Pumpkaboo

Lady Layton| Trap Queen♥
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1. The longer we go without an answer, the more likely it's fake.
But the geno thread says that since its been so long and not touched, it has to be real. It had to be real s/

I hate to talk ill of the geno thread but... they could do with a good vibe check which they would 100% fail because of there" Only Geno here, no one else, only geno" and kinda culty attitude towards a certain user and geno in general. and again I hate to talk ill about the geno thread and I know yall are here lurking, dont take it personal
 
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Izanagi97

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 28, 2015
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Cincinnati, OH
Switch FC
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Honestly, that whole CacoMallow thing is still an unknown. Besides, I'm more concerned about whether or not there will be a direct this week
 

Cutie Gwen

Lovely warrior
Joined
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Messages
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Somewhere out there on this big blue marble
Probably because V did a Chris Niosi except he wasnt under NDA
Then it wouldn't be like Chris Niosi at all, especially considering Niosi is also known to have abused women
In part because of him somehow confusing V's voice actor for Dante's voice actor.
You'd think that you and your magical fairyland sources would have caught that tidbit before going on to try and get clout
 

3BitSaurus

Smash Master
Joined
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Nowhere (no, not the Islands)
Random question of the day: what if we do get a Capcom character, but instead of Dante or Phoenix, it's Ruby Heart, Amingo and Sonson as one character, representing the Capcom Vs. series?

It's the biggest of never evers from Capcom imo, but I gotta say... I would love the idea.
 
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Cutie Gwen

Lovely warrior
Joined
Jul 1, 2014
Messages
63,308
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Somewhere out there on this big blue marble
Random question of the day: what if we do get a Capcom character, but instead of Dante or Phoenix, it's Ruby Heart, Amingo and Sonson as one character, representing the Capcom Vs. series.

It's the biggest of never evers from Capcom imo, but I gotta say... I would love the idea.
That's the beauty of Capcom, it's incredibly hard to go wrong with them. That being said Ruby Heart is a pirate and I am very ****ing gay for lady pirates
 

Herocin

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 29, 2019
Messages
460
Random question of the day: what if we do get a Capcom character, but instead of Dante or Phoenix, it's Ruby Heart, Amingo and Sonson as one character, representing the Capcom Vs. series?

It's the biggest of never evers from Capcom imo, but I gotta say... I would love the idea.
On the topic of obscure long shot Capcom characters... Power Stone.
 

Dinoman96

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 22, 2013
Messages
3,289
While I do like MVC2's original characters, it's still kind of weird how they were even made.

Sonson I can kind of understand because she's a callback to an old Capcom arcade game of the same name, but like, where the hell did Amingo and Ruby Heart come from? lol

I dunno, it's just kind of weird that for a crossover fighting game that's supposed to feature established brands, they ended up making up new characters instead of utilizing more pre-established Capcom characters like Arthur or Zero or something.

Could you imagine if Smash Bros. went down the route of including entirely original characters like that? Imagine the ****storm
 

3BitSaurus

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While I do like MVC2's original characters, it's still kind of weird how they were even made.

Sonson I can kind of understand because she's a callback to an old Capcom arcade game of the same name, but like, where the hell did Amingo and Ruby Heart come from? lol

I dunno, it's just kind of weird that for a crossover fighting game that's supposed to feature established brands, they ended up making up new characters instead of utilizing more pre-established Capcom characters like Arthur or Zero or something.

Could you imagine if Smash Bros. went down the route of including entirely original characters like that? Imagine the ****storm
The common theme of those three is that they're scrapped Capcom characters. Sonson, as you said, is a callback to an old game. She was supposed to be the protagonist of the sequel, but it never came to be. Ruby Heart was confirmed in a few interviews to be a scrapped Darkstalkers character. As for Amingo... there are rumors of him being the protagonist of a cancelled Capcom IP, but we don't know anything about it.

TBH, bringing scrapped characters back as OCs in a crossover fighter is kinda neat. I know I would certainly find it interesting if we got, say, the protagonist of Project H.A.M.M.E.R. in a form made for Smash. It's an interesting way of adressing less known parts of the company's history.
 
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P.Kat

Smash Champion
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Jul 13, 2016
Messages
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Skypeia
Well, if they do add another Pokemon, I think a decent question would be which one? Cause I could kind of see one of the main DLC Pokemon in a promotional sense, yet any fully evolved Starter could work too. And a lot of people like that Electric/Poison Pokemon. Though I dunno if Game Freak wants to market it.
I think It'll either be Zacian or Cinderace from Sword and Shield, or an staple favorite in the Pokemon community: Garchomp. Extra points if Sakurai designs Cynthia in the background of the stages giving commands to Garchomp, as she tears through the competition.

Garchomp is the Mach Pokemon, so she would have extremely good speed, and mobility, and would be a mostly be a rushdown character. Most her moves would be close combat moves.

Her quirk would be Rough Skin, which would have a 30% chance of hurting players that attacks her with physical attacks other than weapons for 5% damage A quick Special/Final moveset would be...

B - Stone Edge: A rapid fire move that act as Garchomp's only long range attack.

Side B - Dragon Claw: A command grab where Garchomp dashes towards the foe, and slashes the fighter. This move can attack twice by pressing the B button, with the second attack inflicting more damage than the first.

Down B - Brick Break: This move basically is the same as Ryu's down B: Limited Super Armor, Stun, and long starup, but with added effect of shield breaking.

Up B - Dragon Rush: Same startup time as Lucario's Extremespeed, but with the added effect of stunning any player too close to Garchomp, move also has a 20% chance to flinch/stun fighters from a short distance just before hitting them. Stunned fighters are dealt more damage and knockback.

Final Smash - Giga Impact/Draco Meteor: Garchomp flies across the stage catching any that hits into it with it wings/massive cone of energy. A cinematic plays with Garchomp soaring into the blue sky with the fighters before quickly slamming them into the ground.
Garchomp then launches a giant Dragonic ball of energy into the that splits into hundred meteor causing the sky to burn with an intense red as it showers destruction onto the players below.
 

Iko MattOrr

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While I do like MVC2's original characters, it's still kind of weird how they were even made.

Sonson I can kind of understand because she's a callback to an old Capcom arcade game of the same name, but like, where the hell did Amingo and Ruby Heart come from? lol

I dunno, it's just kind of weird that for a crossover fighting game that's supposed to feature established brands, they ended up making up new characters instead of utilizing more pre-established Capcom characters like Arthur or Zero or something.

Could you imagine if Smash Bros. went down the route of including entirely original characters like that? Imagine the ****storm
I don't know, it depends in how they perform it. I don't think a playable Tabuu would cause worse reactions than a couple of characters already in the game did (especially if he lets you control Master Hand during the final smash).

But bringing characters from past Smash games is a different thing, making a completely new one without any history may annoy some people I guess.
Though, if they make a new original character without any source material, it means that it has to have an original gameplay or concept in order to stand out, so I wouldn't be that much against it. An original character that's also a clone, it's either waste of development, or just copy-paste filler, and I'm not sure how I would recieve it (probably I would complain about the series getting more and more quantity over quality).
 

Dinoman96

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 22, 2013
Messages
3,289
To be honest, I think the Mii Fighters were probably the best way to handle "original characters" in Smash Bros.

Like yes, they're Miis, but their movesets are entirely original/generic with no references to Wii Sports or Wii Party or whatever. Their logo is even the Smash Bros. emblem, and their victory jingles in both Smash 4 and Ultimate are renditions of their respective main themes:


In a lot of ways, they basically are our "Smash Bros. universe" characters.
 
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SNEKeater

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 4, 2019
Messages
3,375
Since there are rumours of two new Silent Hill games coming, I have a little bit of hope that James Sunderland could have a chance to join Super Smash Bros Ultimate...


... Or could be spirited away which would make the "In Water" ending canon.
I love Silent Hill 2 but if Resident Evil didn't get a playable character I incredibly doubt that Silent Hill will have that. At best I expect a spirit board or a mii costume, and that would be very nice if you ask me because I don't think James Sunderland has real chances to make it as playable.

I don't think reaching new audiences will be the main purpose of Pass 2. Especially since it's been over a year since the game's release and most of the casual players have moved on. Picking a character for the sole purpose of fan service isn't really a shocking or brand new concept when it comes to Smash, many characters only joined Smash because of the fan demand. Not to mention Geno does have Sakurai's blessings, which very few characters have. I assumed Banjo wasn't getting in before Master Chief and Steve and I was wrong, Banjo got in over these two juggernauts due to the power of fan demand. It's something that can get Geno in, and I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Geno does get in before Sora or 2B.
While I see your point I don't know why they would stop reaching new audiences. In fact, I think it's more likely to see more of that for Pass 2 than Pass 1. You can argue that besides Terry and Joker they really didn't tried very hard in doing that. Dragon Quest fanbase has a strong presence among Nintendo users due to the history of the franchise with Nintendo, specially on Japan of course, and obviously I don't need to explain about Banjo and Byleth.
After Byleth I'm really sure we will get at least another 1st party character, but with 6 slots I wouldn't be surprised if we get 2-3 left field picks.

About Geno and Banjo, well, they share some similarities in terms of circumstances. The thing is, Banjo and Kazooie are the stars of their own games, while saying the same for Geno and Super Mario RPG is more complicated. That game has a good amount of fans outside the Smash community, that's undeniable, but they're not people who constantly think and talk about Geno.
While I'm pretty sure Nintendo is aware of the Geno demand for Smash, if the people at Nintendo could bring back a character for their library of IPs they would choose Banjo 20 times before Geno. Not trying to bash on Geno. I'm indifferent towards him, if he makes it I will be glad for his fans and if he's not in Ultimate I honestly don't care. Maybe he would grow on me if he's in the game, but I don't know.
That said I will recognize it has some merit to keep a secondary character like Geno 'relevant' in speculation. He for sure has passionate fans.

Finally, when people talks about the Sakurai's famous quote about Geno I can't help to think... yeah, he said that. But is he thinking the same now? People change their minds and their opinions. That can happen and this is not an exception. Sakurai didn't put Ridley as a playable character before because he was too big and/or he couldn't figure out a moveset for him. Then, he changed his mind about Ridley.
What I'm trying to say is, some people seem to take Sakurai's words about Geno back then as the absolute truth, and while it's for sure a strong argument for Geno, we don't really know if he still feels the same about Geno. He probably still likes Geno, but maybe he's not really a fan anymore of the idea of Geno being playable. Or maybe he is, but he feels more interest in putting other Square Enix franchises.

Back in Smash 4 we had trophies arriving with the DLC. In Ultimate, however, we have spirits instead. One interesting thing I noticed is that the stages for the DLC characters in Ultimate have a lot of character cameos and 3D models. Perhaps this is Sakurai's way of bringing back trophies but in an unofficial manner for the DLC characters? I don't expect every DLC character from now to have character cameos in their stages but it's something interesting to think about.
I'm expecting more cameos. I like that a lot. It would have been cool if Yggdrasil Altar had cameos from the DQXI characters. Dragon Quest XI has a very lovely cast.
 

CapitaineCrash

Smash Champion
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Canada, Québec
Since there are rumours of two new Silent Hill games coming, I have a little bit of hope that James Sunderland could have a chance to join Super Smash Bros Ultimate...


... Or could be spirited away which would make the "In Water" ending canon.
I could honestly see Pyramid head as a mii sword fighter costume. As weird as that sounds, he is in Super bomberman R so I guess it's not impossible.
1498741823062-rsz_pyramid_head_bomberman.jpg
 

Guybrush20X6

Creator of Lego Theory
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The common theme of those three is that they're scrapped Capcom characters. Sonson, as you said, is a callback to an old game. She was supposed to be the protagonist of the sequel, but it never came to be. Ruby Heart was confirmed in a few interviews to be a scrapped Darkstalkers character. As for Amingo... there are rumors of him being the protagonist of a cancelled Capcom IP, but we don't know anything about it.

TBH, bringing scrapped characters back as OCs in a crossover fighter is kinda neat. I know I would certainly find it interesting if we got, say, the protagonist of Project H.A.M.M.E.R. in a form made for Smash. It's an interesting way of adressing less known parts of the company's history.
We had an LCD image and a peripheral as characters already so no reason they couldn't as the ultimate WTF character.
 

Iko MattOrr

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A random thought: Fighter Pass 2 lasts roughly 2 years; Switch is about in the middle of its life cycle and we may get new informations about the next console in 2 years from now.

I think this new Fighter Pass will end in Smash 6 speculation, so characters who are "deconfirmed" now may still have a chance after the 6 DLC characters are announced. The fact that there probably won't be a gap between DLC speculation and Smash 6 speculation means that we won't have that time when the DLCs are finished and some of us get angry because their characters didn't make it in a definitive way due to the game content being finished; at the end of the Fighter Pass they will likely leave us with still hope for the next game...

Just my supposition.
 

Flik

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 16, 2014
Messages
370
It's been pages ago, but I think I need to adress this.

"Ryu vs. Heihachi vs. Terry
This setup never felt natural to me. It's like if Nintendo promoted Smash Bros as the clash of Nintendo stars like Mario, Donkey Kong, Link and King Dedede. It's not wrong, but one of these is clearly not like the other. you know, because mario, dk and link are the heroes of their series so it would make more sense to say kirby instead of dedede

What I'm saying is Heihachi Mishima is not Ryu or Terry Bogard, the main hero of his series: He's M. Bison or Geese Howard, the most notable recurring villain. That setup only makes sense with Jin Kazama (who's the protagonist for the most time like Ryu) or Kazuya Mishima (who used to be the protagonist but is still very relevant like Terry - although in a different way).

I may sound like a hater for always commenting on this, but it bothers me so much how a lot of people talk about Heihachi like he's the only possible character from Tekken, as if he's the clear cut main character like Ryu in Street Fighter or as if Tekken's main protagonist role is all over the place like Soulcalibur so it's easy to just pick the main villain (Nightmare), when it's really a feud between three characters and any of them would makes sense as a Tekken "rep". Sure heihachi was in a lot more crossovers in the past, but between Street Fighter vs Tekken having Ryu vs Kazuya on the cover, the recent KOF crossover featuring this picture with Kyo vs Jin on the front, the current Bandai-Namco logo being what it is, Project X Zone having not just Heihachi but also Jin and Kazuya as an unit (plus Xiaoyu with Chun-Li)... Maybe things are not so obivous anyone? :/

Also, if there is one person in Tekken (especially in 7) that makes sense as the sole Legend Spirit on the spirit board, that person's name is Heihachi. I feel like Kazuya and Jin are too much "on the same level" for one to be "ranked" above the other (Ace level in this case), even more with how the spirit board works - legend spirits are aways support spirits, never primary so they can't evolve to Legend rank. They'd have to make Devil Kazuya a separated spirit from Kazuya just for the legend spirit battle. Devil Jin never felt like a power up for Jin so I can't imagine it getting the legend status. Also not counting Akuma because having him as the only Tekken legend spirit would be hilariously wrong lol

Anyway, here's how I would make it:

Character: Kazuya - The OG protagonist and the main antagonist from now on. Can turn into Devil Kazuya which changes around a few of his specials and gives him an extra jump (because every winged character in Smash has more than 2 jumps)

Stage: Mishima Dojo - I don't think any other stage from that game really represents Tekken as well as this one (I'd love to see some suggestion though)

Music: I kinda lost interest in Tekken's music after 3 so I'll skip this one...

Spirit Board: It's hard because I feel that there are too many "must have" characters but most of them wouldn't feel right as novice, so:

Heihachi Mishima (Legend)
Jin Kazama (Ace)
Lars Alexandersson (Ace)
Paul Phoenix (Ace)
Kazumi Mishima (Advanced > Enhanceable to Ace level as Devil Kazumi)
Nina Williams (Advanced)
Lee Chaolan (Advanced)
King (Advanced)
Marshall Law (Advanced)
Yoshimitsu (Advanced)
Kuma (Novice)
Alisa Bosconovich (Novice)
Xiaoyu & Panda (Novice)

Ps: Swaping Kazuya with Jin works too.
In case we get a Spirit Event: Jin+Kazuya+Heihachi is a given, but who else would be in?
 
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3BitSaurus

Smash Master
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Messages
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Nowhere (no, not the Islands)
We had an LCD image and a peripheral as characters already so no reason they couldn't as the ultimate WTF character.
Instead of talking about the franchise, like Sakurai usually does, we get a full rundown of how H.A.M.M.E.R (or whatever other game) was canceled and what it means for Sakurai to bring it back as a Smash OC.

I would unironically be down for that sort of thing.
 

Hadokeyblade

Smash Legend
Joined
Dec 5, 2018
Messages
10,665
It's been pages ago, but I think I need to adress this.



This setup never felt natural to me. It's like if Nintendo promoted Smash Bros as the clash of Nintendo stars like Mario, Donkey Kong, Link and King Dedede. It's not wrong, but one of these is clearly not like the other. you know, because mario, dk and link are the heroes of their series so it would make more sense to say kirby instead of dedede

What I'm saying is Heihachi Mishima is not Ryu or Terry Bogard, the main hero of his series: He's M. Bison or Geese Howard, the most notable recurring villain. That setup only makes sense with Jin Kazama (who's the protagonist for the most time like Ryu) or Kazuya Mishima (who used to be the protagonist but is still very relevant like Terry - although in a different way).

I may sound like a hater for always commenting on this, but it bothers me so much how a lot of people talk about Heihachi like he's the only possible character from Tekken, as if he's the clear cut main character like Ryu in Street Fighter or as if Tekken's main protagonist role is all over the place like Soulcalibur so it's easy to just pick the main villain (Nightmare), when it's really a feud between three characters and any of them would makes sense as a Tekken "rep". Sure heihachi was in a lot more crossovers in the past, but between Street Fighter vs Tekken having Ryu vs Kazuya on the cover, the recent KOF crossover featuring this picture with Kyo vs Jin on the front, the current Bandai-Namco logo being what it is, Project X Zone having not just Heihachi but also Jin and Kazuya as an unit (plus Xiaoyu with Chun-Li)... Maybe things are not so obivous anyone? :/

Also, if there is one person in Tekken (especially in 7) that makes sense as the sole Legend Spirit on the spirit board, that person's name is Heihachi. I feel like Kazuya and Jin are too much "on the same level" for one to be "ranked" above the other (Ace level in this case), even more with how the spirit board works - legend spirits are aways support spirits, never primary so they can't evolve to Legend rank. They'd have to make Devil Kazuya a separated spirit from Kazuya just for the legend spirit battle. Devil Jin never felt like a power up for Jin so I can't imagine it getting the legend status. Also not counting Akuma because having him as the only Tekken legend spirit would be hilariously wrong lol

Anyway, here's how I would make it:

Character: Kazuya - The OG protagonist and the main antagonist from now on. Can turn into Devil Kazuya which changes around a few of his specials and gives him an extra jump (because every winged character in Smash has more than 2 jumps)

Stage: Mishima Dojo - I don't think any other stage from that game really represents Tekken as well as this one (I'd love to see some suggestion though)

Music: I kinda lost interest in Tekken's music after 3 so I'll skip this one...

Spirit Board: It's hard because I feel that there are too many "must have" characters but most of them wouldn't feel right as novice, so:

Heihachi Mishima (Legend)
Jin Kazama (Ace)
Lars Alexandersson (Ace)
Paul Phoenix (Ace)
Kazumi Mishima (Advanced > Enhanceable to Ace level as Devil Kazumi)
Nina Williams (Advanced)
Lee Chaolan (Advanced)
King (Advanced)
Marshall Law (Advanced)
Yoshimitsu (Advanced)
Kuma (Novice)
Alisa Bosconovich (Novice)
Xiaoyu & Panda (Novice)

Ps: Swaping Kazuya with Jin works too.
In case we get a Spirit Event: Jin+Kazuya+Heihachi is a given, but who else would be in?
Xiaoyu would be part of the spirit event. That just makes the most logical sense.
 

mynameisBlade

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 15, 2010
Messages
1,071
It's been pages ago, but I think I need to adress this.



This setup never felt natural to me. It's like if Nintendo promoted Smash Bros as the clash of Nintendo stars like Mario, Donkey Kong, Link and King Dedede. It's not wrong, but one of these is clearly not like the other. you know, because mario, dk and link are the heroes of their series so it would make more sense to say kirby instead of dedede

What I'm saying is Heihachi Mishima is not Ryu or Terry Bogard, the main hero of his series: He's M. Bison or Geese Howard, the most notable recurring villain. That setup only makes sense with Jin Kazama (who's the protagonist for the most time like Ryu) or Kazuya Mishima (who used to be the protagonist but is still very relevant like Terry - although in a different way).

I may sound like a hater for always commenting on this, but it bothers me so much how a lot of people talk about Heihachi like he's the only possible character from Tekken, as if he's the clear cut main character like Ryu in Street Fighter or as if Tekken's main protagonist role is all over the place like Soulcalibur so it's easy to just pick the main villain (Nightmare), when it's really a feud between three characters and any of them would makes sense as a Tekken "rep". Sure heihachi was in a lot more crossovers in the past, but between Street Fighter vs Tekken having Ryu vs Kazuya on the cover, the recent KOF crossover featuring this picture with Kyo vs Jin on the front, the current Bandai-Namco logo being what it is, Project X Zone having not just Heihachi but also Jin and Kazuya as an unit (plus Xiaoyu with Chun-Li)... Maybe things are not so obivous anyone? :/

Also, if there is one person in Tekken (especially in 7) that makes sense as the sole Legend Spirit on the spirit board, that person's name is Heihachi. I feel like Kazuya and Jin are too much "on the same level" for one to be "ranked" above the other (Ace level in this case), even more with how the spirit board works - legend spirits are aways support spirits, never primary so they can't evolve to Legend rank. They'd have to make Devil Kazuya a separated spirit from Kazuya just for the legend spirit battle. Devil Jin never felt like a power up for Jin so I can't imagine it getting the legend status. Also not counting Akuma because having him as the only Tekken legend spirit would be hilariously wrong lol

Anyway, here's how I would make it:

Character: Kazuya - The OG protagonist and the main antagonist from now on. Can turn into Devil Kazuya which changes around a few of his specials and gives him an extra jump (because every winged character in Smash has more than 2 jumps)

Stage: Mishima Dojo - I don't think any other stage from that game really represents Tekken as well as this one (I'd love to see some suggestion though)

Music: I kinda lost interest in Tekken's music after 3 so I'll skip this one...

Spirit Board: It's hard because I feel that there are too many "must have" characters but most of them wouldn't feel right as novice, so:

Heihachi Mishima (Legend)
Jin Kazama (Ace)
Lars Alexandersson (Ace)
Paul Phoenix (Ace)
Kazumi Mishima (Advanced > Enhanceable to Ace level as Devil Kazumi)
Nina Williams (Advanced)
Lee Chaolan (Advanced)
King (Advanced)
Marshall Law (Advanced)
Yoshimitsu (Advanced)
Kuma (Novice)
Alisa Bosconovich (Novice)
Xiaoyu & Panda (Novice)

Ps: Swaping Kazuya with Jin works too.
In case we get a Spirit Event: Jin+Kazuya+Heihachi is a given, but who else would be in?
This is why I would prefer Sakurai to give us Yoshimitsu IF anyone at all from Tekken. He would rep both Tek and Soul Calibur. Plus who doesn't want to see him clapping his feet together for the opponent when he loses. Lol.. Not to mention how many ****ing badass skins Yosh could have!
 
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nessdeltarune00

Banned via Warnings
Joined
Nov 26, 2018
Messages
1,523
It's been pages ago, but I think I need to adress this.



This setup never felt natural to me. It's like if Nintendo promoted Smash Bros as the clash of Nintendo stars like Mario, Donkey Kong, Link and King Dedede. It's not wrong, but one of these is clearly not like the other. you know, because mario, dk and link are the heroes of their series so it would make more sense to say kirby instead of dedede

What I'm saying is Heihachi Mishima is not Ryu or Terry Bogard, the main hero of his series: He's M. Bison or Geese Howard, the most notable recurring villain. That setup only makes sense with Jin Kazama (who's the protagonist for the most time like Ryu) or Kazuya Mishima (who used to be the protagonist but is still very relevant like Terry - although in a different way).

I may sound like a hater for always commenting on this, but it bothers me so much how a lot of people talk about Heihachi like he's the only possible character from Tekken, as if he's the clear cut main character like Ryu in Street Fighter or as if Tekken's main protagonist role is all over the place like Soulcalibur so it's easy to just pick the main villain (Nightmare), when it's really a feud between three characters and any of them would makes sense as a Tekken "rep". Sure heihachi was in a lot more crossovers in the past, but between Street Fighter vs Tekken having Ryu vs Kazuya on the cover, the recent KOF crossover featuring this picture with Kyo vs Jin on the front, the current Bandai-Namco logo being what it is, Project X Zone having not just Heihachi but also Jin and Kazuya as an unit (plus Xiaoyu with Chun-Li)... Maybe things are not so obivous anyone? :/

Also, if there is one person in Tekken (especially in 7) that makes sense as the sole Legend Spirit on the spirit board, that person's name is Heihachi. I feel like Kazuya and Jin are too much "on the same level" for one to be "ranked" above the other (Ace level in this case), even more with how the spirit board works - legend spirits are aways support spirits, never primary so they can't evolve to Legend rank. They'd have to make Devil Kazuya a separated spirit from Kazuya just for the legend spirit battle. Devil Jin never felt like a power up for Jin so I can't imagine it getting the legend status. Also not counting Akuma because having him as the only Tekken legend spirit would be hilariously wrong lol

Anyway, here's how I would make it:

Character: Kazuya - The OG protagonist and the main antagonist from now on. Can turn into Devil Kazuya which changes around a few of his specials and gives him an extra jump (because every winged character in Smash has more than 2 jumps)

Stage: Mishima Dojo - I don't think any other stage from that game really represents Tekken as well as this one (I'd love to see some suggestion though)

Music: I kinda lost interest in Tekken's music after 3 so I'll skip this one...

Spirit Board: It's hard because I feel that there are too many "must have" characters but most of them wouldn't feel right as novice, so:

Heihachi Mishima (Legend)
Jin Kazama (Ace)
Lars Alexandersson (Ace)
Paul Phoenix (Ace)
Kazumi Mishima (Advanced > Enhanceable to Ace level as Devil Kazumi)
Nina Williams (Advanced)
Lee Chaolan (Advanced)
King (Advanced)
Marshall Law (Advanced)
Yoshimitsu (Advanced)
Kuma (Novice)
Alisa Bosconovich (Novice)
Xiaoyu & Panda (Novice)

Ps: Swaping Kazuya with Jin works too.
In case we get a Spirit Event: Jin+Kazuya+Heihachi is a given, but who else would be in?
Sakurai literally outright stated that Heihachi was the Tekken rep considered first and foremost for Smash 4.

There is a reason why people primarily discuss him when it comes to a potential Tekken rep.
 

EricTheGamerman

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This setup never felt natural to me. It's like if Nintendo promoted Smash Bros as the clash of Nintendo stars like Mario, Donkey Kong, Link and King Dedede. It's not wrong, but one of these is clearly not like the other. you know, because mario, dk and link are the heroes of their series so it would make more sense to say kirby instead of dedede

What I'm saying is Heihachi Mishima is not Ryu or Terry Bogard, the main hero of his series: He's M. Bison or Geese Howard, the most notable recurring villain. That setup only makes sense with Jin Kazama (who's the protagonist for the most time like Ryu) or Kazuya Mishima (who used to be the protagonist but is still very relevant like Terry - although in a different way).

I may sound like a hater for always commenting on this, but it bothers me so much how a lot of people talk about Heihachi like he's the only possible character from Tekken, as if he's the clear cut main character like Ryu in Street Fighter or as if Tekken's main protagonist role is all over the place like Soulcalibur so it's easy to just pick the main villain (Nightmare), when it's really a feud between three characters and any of them would makes sense as a Tekken "rep". Sure heihachi was in a lot more crossovers in the past, but between Street Fighter vs Tekken having Ryu vs Kazuya on the cover, the recent KOF crossover featuring this picture with Kyo vs Jin on the front, the current Bandai-Namco logo being what it is, Project X Zone having not just Heihachi but also Jin and Kazuya as an unit (plus Xiaoyu with Chun-Li)... Maybe things are not so obivous anyone? :/

Also, if there is one person in Tekken (especially in 7) that makes sense as the sole Legend Spirit on the spirit board, that person's name is Heihachi. I feel like Kazuya and Jin are too much "on the same level" for one to be "ranked" above the other (Ace level in this case), even more with how the spirit board works - legend spirits are aways support spirits, never primary so they can't evolve to Legend rank. They'd have to make Devil Kazuya a separated spirit from Kazuya just for the legend spirit battle. Devil Jin never felt like a power up for Jin so I can't imagine it getting the legend status. Also not counting Akuma because having him as the only Tekken legend spirit would be hilariously wrong lol
The difference is that Heihachi seems to have quite the increased popularity among Tekken fans compared to other villains. Yeah, Heihachi is a villain and not necessarily the main protagonist, but he's become more of the "mascot" character of Tekken for a fair amount of Bandai-Namco's advertising and he's the one who appeared in Playstation All-Stars. Hell, when it came time to pick a Mii Costume from Tekken, Sakurai also went for Heihachi instead of other options and he also referenced Heihachi when considering a Tekken fighter prior to Pac-Man. He just seems to resonate with audiences to a significantly higher degree than other recurring villains. And Tekken has never been as consistent in who it put at the forefront of the games. So that's how Heihachi becomes a frontrunner for Tekken rep alongside the "main characters."

The bigger deal is the Street Fighter X King of Fighters X Tekken than the individual heroes. Those universes interacting with one another is more the draw, because even most Street Fighter fans will admit that Ryu is somewhat lame in comparison to tons of other options. Terry is the only one of the fighting game MCs that is both the mascot and pretty much universally beloved by the fandom. Just when lots of people think Tekken, they think Heihachi, and I do think that has always been Sakurai's imperative in including content in the crossover.

I mean, Heihachi isn't the only choice or anything like that, but Heihachi absolutely works as one of the most recognizable, if not the most recognizable, characters from Tekken. Kazuya and Jin may be beloved by the Tekken fandom, but from what I've seen (and this is anecdotal, so it's not definitive in any way), people outside the Tekken fandom seem to just recognize Heihachi more often.

This is why I would prefer Sakurai to give us Yoshimitsu IF anyone at all from Tekken. He would rep both Tek and Soul Calibur. Plus who doesn't want to see him clapping his feet together for the opponent when he loses. Lol.. Not to mention how many ****ing badass skins Yosh could have!
Yoshimitsu just seems like a poor way to implement two franchises at once. Fatal Fury has largely blended into King of Fighters over the years, so Terry worked as a representative of both, but Soulcalibur and Tekken are two wildly different entities. It would be a massive disservice to both of them to try to force them into one character, let alone one like Yoshimitsu who isn't the recognizable face compared to Nightmare and Heihachi respectively. I just don't see Sakurai not giving either series their due respect in Smash by trying to force both of them into one character pack.

Like Yoshimitsu is a fun character, don't get me wrong, but Tekken and Soulcalibur are distinct enough properties with huge fan bases to get the individual attention they both deserve as incredibly popular fighting games.
 
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Faso115

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I like Ryu even if he is pretty basic all things considered.

You can never go wrong with Ryu and his crossover resume is prettt impressive
 

BernkastelWitch

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I feel like Heihachi is one of the few characters that can get into Smash and break the "Protagonist first" rule people think exists. Even people I know who aren't into Tekken recognize him more than Jin or Kazuya and the fact Sakurai considered him before Pac-Man is a huge sign.

Heihachi is practically the mascot of Tekken. My only issue is the fact that he got rejected last time because Sakurai couldn't think of a moveset for him and his Voice Actor passed away. But I imagine those two can be fixed with time and reusing lines, respectively.

There's also competition for a Namco rep with Lloyd, KOS-MOS, and whatnot but Heihachi is the highest up there if we get one. Not 100% but a good chance.
 

Wunderwaft

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Technically the "protagonist first" rule was broken ever since Pikachu was made playable before Pokemon Trainer. So that means the rule never existed in the first place :p
 

Michael the Spikester

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I've actually honestly been warming up to Heihachi. I'd much prefer Nightmare but I would not mind his inclusion. Besides we'd get our first 3rd party villain and we also need fanart of:ultbowser::ultbowserjr::ultdarksamus::ultganondorf::ultkingdedede::ultmewtwo::ultkrool::ultpiranha::ultridley:and:ultwolf:welcoming him to Smash.
 

I.D.

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Sakurai is not in charge of deciding characters for fighters passes so technically the Sakurai bias advantage Heihachi and Lloyd have over their comrades is gone
 
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3BitSaurus

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Sure heihachi was in a lot more crossovers in the past, but between Street Fighter vs Tekken having Ryu vs Kazuya on the cover, the recent KOF crossover featuring this picture with Kyo vs Jin on the front, the current Bandai-Namco logo being what it is, Project X Zone having not just Heihachi but also Jin and Kazuya as an unit (plus Xiaoyu with Chun-Li)... Maybe things are not so obivous anyone? :/
Counterpoint: Ryu was shown fighting Kyo in the CvS promo artwork, while Terry was fighting Ken. But Terry had the better, uh, "resume", so he was the one chosen for Smash.

Personally I think Heihachi has a degree of... iconicness (iconicity? Dunno, English is not my first language and these are the only words I found for it) that Kazuya and Jin haven't really matched when it comes to being known outside of Tekken.

Sure, I get that people also like Chun-Li more than Ryu, but Ryu is just really iconic in his own right. Same for franchises like Guilty Gear and Blazblue. With Tekken, though, it's not so clear cut.
 

TriggerX

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The only issue I have with Heiachi is his potential move set. Seems like it would be kind of basic to me. With Ryu, Ken, and Terry already in, I feel like Terry raised the bar on what fighting game characters could bring to the roster.

He really just looks like he would play like a slower Ryu with lightning with animations that focus more on power rather than a balance of power and speed.

Unfortunately I’m not too familiar with the character so maybe there’s more to him?
 

Michael the Spikester

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If any Tekken character gets in it will be Heihachi.

Same reason as:ultryu:and:ult_terry:being the mascot of their fighting games just as Scorpion would being the face of Mortal Kombat as with Nightmare with Soulcalibur. Why is this even an argument?

Plus the whole "Protagonist first" is another so called fan-made rule that Sakurai will eventually break as usual.
 
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EricTheGamerman

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I feel like Heihachi is one of the few characters that can get into Smash and break the "Protagonist first" rule people think exists. Even people I know who aren't into Tekken recognize him more than Jin or Kazuya and the fact Sakurai considered him before Pac-Man is a huge sign.

Heihachi is practically the mascot of Tekken. My only issue is the fact that he got rejected last time because Sakurai couldn't think of a moveset for him and his Voice Actor passed away. But I imagine those two can be fixed with time and reusing lines, respectively.

There's also competition for a Namco rep with Lloyd, KOS-MOS, and whatnot but Heihachi is the highest up there if we get one. Not 100% but a good chance.
It was less that Sakurai couldn't think of a moveset, and more he wasn't sure how to adapt Tekken's incredibly complex systems into Smash in a satisfying way. A moveset for Heihachi isn't the issue since you can make a pretty straightforward one with relative ease, the issue is representing Tekken as a whole since Sakurai loves to incorporate mechanics true to the original series when working with third parties. Not an insurmountable obstacle by any means of course, but that was more of the initial issue with Heihachi.

Sakurai is not in charge of deciding characters for fighters passes so technically the Sakurai bias advantage Heihachi and Lloyd have over their comrades is gone
You're assuming a lot here and also downplaying the popularity of both Lloyd and Heihachi in the process. First off, we know that Dragon Quest in Smash was the idea that led to Hero and not specifically Hero. Sakurai was the one who went to Square Enix to specifically ask for Hero and pushed back on the idea of Slime, so it was Dragon Quest in Smash as a concept that Nintendo had picked and not the definitive character themselves which they seem to have left to Sakurai to figure out. It's very easy to envision a scenario in which this same thing happens with Tales and Tekken. Nintendo says, "Tekken is a really popular IP, let's cross over with that" and sends Sakurai to figure it out the exact details of that arrangement with Bandai-Namco. In which case, Sakurai's ideas do come into play. And this also presumes that Sakurai and Nintendo don't collaborate at all in regards to the DLC and that Nintendo only issues commands from up high. Nintendo picks the DLC, we know that for sure, but we don't have any evidence to show that Sakurai is completely absent from having any influence in that manner

But also, and more importantly, Nintendo is perfectly capable of looking at the evidence and coming to conclusions themselves. They almost certainly have the ballot data, on which Lloyd almost certainly placed higher than other Tales reps, and are able to recognize Tales of Symphonia as the Tales game people associate with their brand, giving Lloyd much of the same advantage regardless of Sakurai's input. Nintendo can also easily interpret Heihachi's popularity and request him over other options since, again, Heihachi still continues to be a mascot for much of Tekken and is a very popular character in his own right.

There's more evidence that puts them as frontrunners as representatives of their respective series than Sakurai's opinions on them, and that evidence is likely what led to Sakurai formulating said opinions in the first place.
 

Cosmic77

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Even though they're arguably the most fitting characters for Smash, I kinda don't want to get any more characters in Ultimate from fighting games. I'm not sure if I can explain it properly. They just feel...boring I guess?

I don't know. If Heihachi gets in, I won't be upset. He'll just be another one of those, "Okay, I'm already wanting to see the next character," reveals.
 
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