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Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

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Mr. Game + Watch

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Can someone post a link to the article you people are talking about? I can’t missed a bunch of pages.

Also a thought I had just recently after brawlfan1 did a moveset on a crazy Dave from plants vs zombies is that while PvZ is a huge franchise most people don’t think about it or speculate about I wonder if it could just be because EA owns it or just not something that first comes to mind.
 
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Herocin

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Can someone post a link to the article you people are talking about? I can’t missed a bunch of pages.

Also a thought I had just recently after brawlfan1 did a moveset on a crazy Dave from plants vs zombies is that while PvZ is a huge franchise most people don’t think about it or speculate about I wonder if it could just be because EA owns it or just not something that first comes to mind.
Yeah it’s cos EA. Gonna have to unlock a loot box every time you want to attack, move or jump.
 

Opossum

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Japan didn't care for Punch-Out, and yet we still got Mac.

Sure, you could say he is a retro rep (tho the Wii game could make that argument debatable), but while he was popular pick pre-confirm in the west. In Japan, lots of peoples were like "who's that dude?" once he was confirm, due to the first Punch-Out being only playable in Japan via a contest for another game, with limited copy of the game at that. It's thanks to his popularity in the West that he got in as a character in Smash 4.

Soooo, while it doesn't help FPS characters, I think it's not impossible for one to get in if the puzzles pieces fall in places.
This actually isn't true. The first release of the NES version of Punch-Out!! in Japan was a limited time reward, but it later got a wider release (I think about a year after). They also still got the arcade games, the SNES game, and the Wii game as well.
 

wynn728

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But WHY would he lie about this?
Tell how do you think it would go if Sakurai just comes out and say that he had control and put 4 of his favorite characters/series in the game and only listen to the fans for one character in the Fighters Pass. Saying that Nintendo was the one who picked everything means that no one can blame if many fan favorite didn't make it in while Sakurai's favorites did, Nintendo is a big company so it's not like the blame gets put on any particular person.

Saying that Nintendo was the ones who chose everything means that Sakurai can put his favorites in like Joker, Terry, and Fire Emblem and say "Don't look at me, it was Nintendo who just so happen to picked my favorites. I had nothing to do with it, blame Nintendo for not listening to what you guys have been asking for for years."
 

Dinoman96

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Japan didn't care for Punch-Out, and yet we still got Mac.

Sure, you could say he is a retro rep (tho the Wii game could make that argument debatable), but while he was popular pick pre-confirm in the west. In Japan, lots of peoples were like "who's that dude?" once he was confirm, due to the first Punch-Out being only playable in Japan via a contest for another game, with limited copy of the game at that. It's thanks to his popularity in the West that he got in as a character in Smash 4.

Soooo, while it doesn't help FPS characters, I think it's not impossible for one to get in if the puzzles pieces fall in places.
Little Mac is still a Nintendo character though, like with Ridley.

Smash Bros. is primarily a celebration of Nintendo and Japanese games. Characters like Little Mac, Duck Hunt, Samus, Ridley, etc are obviously much more prominent in the west but they're still first party characters that were created in Japan. Characters like Diddy, K. Rool, Dark Samus and Banjo & Kazooie were all created by western developers, but they still hail from major games that were published by Nintendo worldwide. That's basically what seperates them from characters like Master Chief, Doom Slayer, Rayman, etc

This actually isn't true. The first release of the NES version of Punch-Out!! in Japan was a limited time reward, but it later got a wider release (I think about a year after). They also still got the arcade games, the SNES game, and the Wii game as well.
This too.
 
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Eldrake

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On the topic of FPS reps, Gordon Freeman feels like a realistic choice and I could totally see Nintendo approach Valve about Smash or vice versa.
 

pinshadow

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BUT THE ZZS BAYONETTA FIGHTER BALLOT THO!!111
What does that have to do with anything, its pretty obvious the ballot was questionable at best. Characters take anywhere from 6 months to a year to complete yet Bayonetta was fully playable 2 months after the ballot was over, hell probably less since now we know the presentations are recorded weeks/a month in advance. Sakurai literally admitted that veterans like Snake did better, along with certain other "unrealizable" characters. Plus the ZSS thing being in the files 2 weeks after the ballot started. And the fact that Bayonetta just happened to be a character that could be extremely easily negotiated due to being owned by Sega and already having a game on Wii U that had just come out that Nintendo helped develop?

Yea, Bayo totally won the ballot. I'm not even salty shes in, she totally should be, but come on.
 

Metal Shop X

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This actually isn't true. The first release of the NES version of Punch-Out!! in Japan was a limited time reward, but it later got a wider release (I think about a year after). They also still got the arcade games, the SNES game, and the Wii game as well.
Ohh, didn't know about the NES later release (tho correct me here, I don't think it helped the series much in Japan, did it?), and I had a feeling the other Punch-Out game were released in Japan, but I wasn't sure if they made alot of impact or not, so I didn't put there.

Still, thanks for correcting & informing me on that.
Little Mac is still a Nintendo character though, like with Ridley.

Smash Bros. is primarily a celebration of Nintendo and Japanese games. Characters like Little Mac, Duck Hunt, Samus, Ridley, etc are obviously much more prominent in the west but they're still first party characters that were created in Japan. Characters like Diddy, K. Rool, Dark Samus and Banjo & Kazooie were all created by western developers, but they still hail from major games that were published by Nintendo worldwide. That's basically what seperates them from characters like Master Chief, Doom Slayer, Rayman, etc



This too.
Yeah, I agree.

Still, I feel like we be missing something if there is no FPS rep at all, but Japan not caring about this type of game does hurt alot. Still, nothing is 100% certain, Sakurai & Nintendo have surprised quit a few times after all.
 

pinshadow

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Tell how do you think it would go if Sakurai just comes out and say that he had control and put 4 of his favorite characters/series in the game and only listen to the fans for one character in the Fighters Pass. Saying that Nintendo was the one who picked everything means that no one can blame if many fan favorite didn't make it in while Sakurai's favorites did, Nintendo is a big company so it's not like the blame gets put on any particular person.

Saying that Nintendo was the ones who chose everything means that Sakurai can put his favorites in like Joker, Terry, and Fire Emblem and say "Don't look at me, it was Nintendo who just so happen to picked my favorites. I had nothing to do with it, blame Nintendo for not listening to what you guys have been asking for for years."
Christ Wynn, get over it. He is literally saying he did NOT want this. You seriously think hes going to just go into his own personal collumn and lie about what he thinks?
 

CHAMPIONX9

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Even if you are not fishing for the fps genre you'd think you'd get one just from how many prominent games there are in it.
 

Cutie Gwen

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Christ Wynn, get over it. He is literally saying he did NOT want this. You seriously think hes going to just go into his own personal collumn and lie about what he thinks?
He's only saying it for PR! Hold up, I'm getting a call, hello? Yes this is Gwen. What, saying "I wouldn't have done this had my boss not forced me" would only give you BAD PR? I see...
 

Mr. Game + Watch

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Yeah it’s cos EA. Gonna have to unlock a loot box every time you want to attack, move or jump.
Yeah this is the sad thing about EA, they have control of great franchises like Plant vs Zombies and Battlefield but they do some much dumb stuff. I loved battlefield 4 as an fps but the battlefield 5 just didn’t grab my attention.
 

KillerCage

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Speaking of Genre Representation, lets take a look at what Genres are, and aren't, represented in Smash.
Platformers
:ultmario::ultdk::ultwario::ultyoshi::ultsonic::ultmegaman::ultkirby::ultbanjokazooie::ultsamus::ultsimon::ultpit::ulticeclimbers:
RPGs/Strategy
:ultcloud::ultpikachu::ultmarth::ulthero::ultjoker::ultness::ultshulk:
Action/Adventure

:ultzelda::ultbayonetta:
Fighters/Beat-Em-Ups
:ultryu::ult_terry::ultlittlemac:
Shooter/Shoot-Em-Ups
:ultinkling::ultfox::ultsnake::ultduckhunt::ultpit::ultsamus:

Rhythm
Simulation
:ultisabelle::ultolimar:(?)
Sports/Racing
:ultfalcon::ultdaisy:
Puzzle
:ultdoc:
Self-Help/Health
:ultwiifittrainer:

Visual Novel

I may have forgotten a few base genres..but I think only Rhythm & Visual Novel are missing representation from that angle, so Rhythm Heaven could work for the former and either Fate/stay night or Ace Attorney could work for the latter (I'm biased, but I think Fate/stay night's Saber may be easier to make a Smash Bros. moveset for than Phoenix Wright..but this is Sakurai, so anyone could get a moveset)
I would personally put Metal Gear under Action-Adventure.
Same case for Metroid and Castlevania.
Pikmin would fall under Strategy.
Oh I get why. I'm just really smug about it because FE haters have ******* and screamed and moaned at anyone who likes FE for the past 5 years so I find Byleth's addition rather poetic, every time they complain, Nintendo feels a stronger urge to add more FE
View attachment 261117
Talk **** get hit at it's finest, this is why people kept spamming Hoes Mad
I take it you love to mess with people?
 

Faso115

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You know what I haven’t seen a lot of lately? Roster Predictions. I miss those. I know they are time consuming, but it’s always so fun to see visual representation of what people predict/want.
I have seen Alpharad do one of twitter shortly after Byleth. His last one was pretty on point so i believe in him
 

Ramen Tengoku

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Who cares if Sakurai adds something because he likes it, let the man enjoy things. It's his game.
oh yeah sure, it's not like he tends to works himself to death making one of the biggest crossover events in video gaming and a potentially all of pop culture

it's not like he once had to be hooked up to an IV drip or anything

at the end of the day he should only add characters i want or the fans want.

Sakurai don't deserve nothing, especially after adding all those stupid weeaboo swordies

/s
 
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wynn728

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Christ Wynn, get over it. He is literally saying he did NOT want this. You seriously think hes going to just go into his own personal collumn and lie about what he thinks?
People lie for less. Not everything a person say is truthful. And if your actions don't match your words and there just so happens to be a lot of coincidence it's gonna raise some suspicion. I really got no reason to believe what Sakurai is saying, just like I don't have any reason to believe what other game studio say either.
 

MooMew64

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oh yeah sure, it's not like he tends to works himself to death making one of the biggest crossover events in video gaming and a potentially all of pop culture

it's not like he once had to be hooked up to an IV drip or anything

at the end of the day he should only add characters i want or the fans want. Sakurai don't deserve nothing

/s
I know you're joking, but it's sad how this mentality isn't a joke to some people. Smash characters make some people act nuts.

I still want Sakurai to take a vacation. Poor guy's earned it.
 
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Cosmic77

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Obviously Nintendo and Sakurai are both responsible for the characters we have in the pass. Nintendo may have made the selection, but it's not like they locked Sakurai in a room and refused to give him food and water until he made the characters they wanted. He had a say in it too, and he could've rejected any of the characters if he really wanted to.

For now though, rather than dwell on what's already happened, I would recommend looking ahead to fighter #6 onward and being cautiously optimistic. We know they're listening to fans to some extent thanks to Banjo, so that instill some hope. Once all is said and done, then you can go back and evaluate the DLC; explain why you were happy or disappointed.
 
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CHAMPIONX9

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I would put Ace Attorney above fate because having ace attorney in smash would serve to promote future ace attorney games. Has fate ever been on a nintendo platform? Not that its a factor but if nintendo is choosing i am not sure what business purpose fate would serve.

Aside from that i think fate is too ecchi.
 

Sestetz

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I'm still salty Hubert isn't on the three houses map. Was he too scary to put in or something? Every other house has their main cheese and then they kinda just shove in Petra.

It doesn't really matter but I like Hubert and they gave my man the shaft like that when Dedue and Hilda just waltz in
 

osby

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I would put Ace Attorney above fate because having ace attorney in smash would serve to promote future ace attorney games. Has fate ever been on a nintendo platform? Not that its a factor but if nintendo is choosing i am not sure what business purpose fate would serve.

Aside from that i think fate is too ecchi.
I mean, Fate has a couple of spin-offs on Nintendo consoles, which is apparently enough considering we got Joker.

And Bayonetta is in Smash, so it's not like Sakurai can't choose to leave suggestive content out. Most stay night characters' designs aren't even particularly risque.
 

Diddy Kong

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honestly, i think the lack of FPS characters just boils down to japan not really caring about that genre
Why is it even a must? Nintendo has never been big on FPS. And we already technically have a characters from a FPS; Dark Samus.
 

Sestetz

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Would you guys be mad if they added a Shin Megami Tensei character to the roster even though we already have Joker? I have 100% doubt they would after adding in Joker, but I can already imagine every casuals reaction and going who the hell is that
 

wynn728

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Obviously Nintendo and Sakurai are both responsible for the characters we have in the pass. Nintendo may have made the selection, but it's not like they locked Sakurai in a room and refused to give him food and water until he made the characters they wanted. He had a say in it too, and he could've rejected any of the characters if he really wanted to.

For now though, rather than dwell on what's already happened, I would recommend looking ahead to fighter #6 onward and being cautiously optimistic. We know they're listening to fans to some extent thanks to Banjo, so that instill some hope. Once all is said and done, then you can go back and evaluate the DLC; explain why you were happy or disappointed.
Yeah, you got one fan requested character out of the five newcomers. Vol 2 is TOTALLY going to be different, just look at how they end the entire thing with Byleth. It really shows that they listen and are fully in touch with what the fans want.
 

BernkastelWitch

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I would put Ace Attorney above fate because having ace attorney in smash would serve to promote future ace attorney games. Has fate ever been on a nintendo platform? Not that its a factor but if nintendo is choosing i am not sure what business purpose fate would serve.

Aside from that i think fate is too ecchi.
Fate has a couple of games on Switch. The original VN is on Switch I think but only in Japan, Extella and Extella Link are on there, and that weird cooking spin-off we're getting.

And honestly, Artoria/Sabers design is one of the tamest for females in the game and she is the one everyone would expect to get in if we somehow got a Fate rep. I imagine Spirits would be a different issue since I can see characters like Tamamo, Nero, Jack, Abigail, maybe Mordred not even getting spirits or a cameo at all despite them being popular but the vast selection of Servants are enough to make that a non-issue.

For all we know they could just stick with the Stay Night cast.

Just my two cents on the whole Fate/Smash thing.
 

Cap'n Jack

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Going forward with speculation I think the one trend that stands is the old pillar theory:

It needs to be a ew character than can bring new music, new spirits, and a new stage. After all, pre-E3, a lot of people were predicting a Three Houses Rep or a Pokemon Gen 8 rep. Byleth did not come out of nowhere as much as people recently might be saying they did. Taking this into account, this points towards really only one thing going forward: while not impossible, I think this greatly hurts pre-existing first party characters who don’t have a new game coming out soon. This means Dixie Kong and Bandana Waddle Dee. Other first parties can still get in, so as long as they can pack some new spirits, music, and a new stage into the bundle. I’d say a new Pokemon rep or a Breath of the Wild 2 rep are the most likely on this front. Also Super Mario RPG, but that is only half first- party.

As for other choices?

As much as looking into trends is in fact a pitfall in Smash speculation, let’s look at the first fighters pass for some guidance.

First we have Joker. This to me is the Sakurai wild card character. I know Sakurai keeps stating that Nintendo picked the characters, but this is only half true me thinks. First off, Sakurai does have veto power like many have pointed out including Sakurai himself indirectly. Second, I think Sakurai has more of a voice than he leads on. I’ve noticed Sakurai does not emphasise that Nintendo made the DLC picks every time, just at the beginning and after Banjo and Byleth’s reveals. Not saying Nintendo did not pick Joker, Hero, and Terry, but that perhaps, again, Sakurai has more of a voice in choosing certain characters, and perhaps Sakurai’s influence in Japan’s gaming industry allows him to get certain characters in the game. This is how we got Snake and Sans in after all. Speaking of Snake, other “Sakurai” picks have not been exclusively third-party, but also gave us Kirby as the defacto main character of Smash, the addition of two more Kirby fighters whikevother franchises of the same level got only one (Donkey Kong and Metroid). In Smash 4, we got Palutena and Dark Pit, the latter of which most likely would have not made it in under a different director. So all in all, there are characters where Sakurai as a person, and the aspects of him as the director bring to the character selection. Rather it be subconsciously favoring games he made, or had a blast playing like Petsona 5, or be it the relationships he has in the Japanese gaming community.

In predicting a future character I could look to the middle aspect and choose Steve as Sakurai is a big Minecraft fan. After all Minecraft is a huge deal, and has a strong presence on Nintendo platforms, but I lean on the third aspect the most. This leads me to my first prediction, and that is:

Travis Touchdown

Sakurai has a relationship with the director of No More Heroes, a new game is coming out for the Switch, and it would be interesting to have a meta character in the game. Perhaps his taunts could be tailored to which ever character he is fighting for something new for Sakurai to play with.

If not Travis, I would predict Steve or another game we might not know of that Sakurai has poured hours into playing.

More on am my next pick in my next post.
 

Sestetz

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Going forward with speculation I think the one trend that stands is the old pillar theory:

It needs to be a ew character than can bring new music, new spirits, and a new stage. After all, pre-E3, a lot of people were predicting a Three Houses Rep or a Pokemon Gen 8 rep. Byleth did not come out of nowhere as much as people recently might be saying they did. Taking this into account, this points towards really only one thing going forward: while not impossible, I think this greatly hurts pre-existing first party characters who don’t have a new game coming out soon. This means Dixie Kong and Bandana Waddle Dee. Other first parties can still get in, so as long as they can pack some new spirits, music, and a new stage into the bundle. I’d say a new Pokemon rep or a Breath of the Wild 2 rep are the most likely on this front. Also Super Mario RPG, but that is only half first- party.

As for other choices?

As much as looking into trends is in fact a pitfall in Smash speculation, let’s look at the first fighters pass for some guidance.

First we have Joker. This to me is the Sakurai wild card character. I know Sakurai keeps stating that Nintendo picked the characters, but this is only half true me thinks. First off, Sakurai does have veto power like many have pointed out including Sakurai himself indirectly. Second, I think Sakurai has more of a voice than he leads on. I’ve noticed Sakurai does not emphasise that Nintendo made the DLC picks every time, just at the beginning and after Banjo and Byleth’s reveals. Not saying Nintendo did not pick Joker, Hero, and Terry, but that perhaps, again, Sakurai has more of a voice in choosing certain characters, and perhaps Sakurai’s influence in Japan’s gaming industry allows him to get certain characters in the game. This is how we got Snake and Sans in after all. Speaking of Snake, other “Sakurai” picks have not been exclusively third-party, but also gave us Kirby as the defacto main character of Smash, the addition of two more Kirby fighters whikevother franchises of the same level got only one (Donkey Kong and Metroid). In Smash 4, we got Palutena and Dark Pit, the latter of which most likely would have not made it in under a different director. So all in all, there are characters where Sakurai as a person, and the aspects of him as the director bring to the character selection. Rather it be subconsciously favoring games he made, or had a blast playing like Petsona 5, or be it the relationships he has in the Japanese gaming community.

In predicting a future character I could look to the middle aspect and choose Steve as Sakurai is a big Minecraft fan. After all Minecraft is a huge deal, and has a strong presence on Nintendo platforms, but I lean on the third aspect the most. This leads me to my first prediction, and that is:

Travis Touchdown

Sakurai has a relationship with the director of No More Heroes, a new game is coming out for the Switch, and it would be interesting to have a meta character in the game. Perhaps his taunts could be tailored to which ever character he is fighting for something new for Sakurai to play with.

If not Travis, I would predict Steve or another game we might not know of that Sakurai has poured hours into playing.

More on am my next pick in my next post.
I hope so man! Only problem with Travis is the vulgarity of his series, they'd have to tone it down. But with his NMH:3 outing it may freshen him up a bit. Keeping my fingers crossed
 

BernkastelWitch

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I hope so man! Only problem with Travis is the vulgarity of his series, they'd have to tone it down. But with his NMH:3 outing it may freshen him up a bit. Keeping my fingers crossed
I can say Travis would be easier to tone down. I can see him work well in a non-vulgar way. I do imagine if they keep his sword charging mechanic, they'd have to change the animation to that but other than that, I would not be surprised at all if he got in Volume 2 and I'd welcome him with open arms.
 

osby

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Yeah, you got one fan requested character out of the five newcomers. Vol 2 is TOTALLY going to be different, just look at how they end the entire thing with Byleth. It really shows that they listen and are fully in touch with what the fans want.
It shows that they are in touch with fans out of hardcore Westerns Smash fans, too. Honestly, some people's definition of "fan requests" are so close-minded that it's no surprise they are never satisfied.

A lot of fans were asking for a Three Houses/Dragon Quest character. You don't get to ignore them and whine about how Nintendo never listens to their fans.
 
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TMNTSSB4

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I could see either Doom or Master Chief being a FPS Rep for Smash
 

TheCJBrine

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People lie for less. Not everything a person say is truthful. And if your actions don't match your words and there just so happens to be a lot of coincidence it's gonna raise some suspicion. I really got no reason to believe what Sakurai is saying, just like I don't have any reason to believe what other game studio say either.
We have no reason not to believe what he said. He and Nintendo have pleased many people with the characters and while a few seem like personal picks, they also make sense business-wise for Nintendo. This man already tried to fulfill a bunch of fan-requests in the basegame, too. Just because you don’t like some of the picks doesn’t mean Sakurai is a liar and that he’s completely ignoring fans...as if what he does should be mostly dictated by what fans want, anyway.
 

Cosmic77

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Yeah, you got one fan requested character out of the five newcomers. Vol 2 is TOTALLY going to be different, just look at how they end the entire thing with Byleth. It really shows that they listen and are fully in touch with what the fans want.
We don't even know who the first character is of the second pass.

At the very least, hold your judgment until then. Maybe you'll be surprised. Maybe not. Either way, don't rob yourself from enjoying speculation.
 
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