Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Pinguino21v]

Also, Byleth wasn't the character Sakurai wanted to put in as the Three Houses rep.

I mean, that phrase doesn't necessarily point to a 3H character. I don't want to fuel any conspiracy theory, but i'd advise to wait for the full translation.

Exactly. He is saying that, of all the 5 DLC, at least one would not have been in if it was entirely his choice. That's not explicitly leading to Byleth, even if it's more than probable, but there is really nothing saying Sakurai wanted another FE:3H character instead.

Didn't Sakurai have the final say? Nintendo picked the characters, but ultimately Sakurai was the one who got to decide if the character was able to work in smash or not, wasn't it?

We don't have the detail, but what I believe the most likely is that Nintendo chose the 5 characters and Sakurai said "yes, they can work". And, yes, Byleth can work, even if he is not the choice Sakurai would have made.

There's nothing wrong with sword characters. If not swords, you'll get fist fighters or guns.

I fully agree.

I mean, every idea conceivable was probably done already

I don't think so, there are a lot of possible original movesets, but you need to have a character that fit the style for that. For example, except for one Pokémon (edit: and Duck Hunt), there are no quadriped: Amaterasu or Spyro would fit well. There's no dual blade wielder: Elma or Lloyd would be good there. The mages are also not a lot in the roster, you can put Isaac or Ashley here. A changeform? Shantae and Paper Mario. A summoner? Advance Wars rep...

If Nintendo chooses the lineup, then it opens up more possibilities actually because there's networking, favors and promotions going on behind the scenes.

That's right and exciting! First party will return!

 

[PLATINUM7]

I don't think so, there are a lot of possible original movesets, but you need to have a character that fit the style for that. For example, except for one Pokémon, there are no quadriped:

Did you forget ?

 

[Captain Fun]

The new Sakurai quote is interesting, but it doesn’t tell us much new. I’m wondering if people will take the whole “Nintendo chose the characters” thing more seriously now.

What I find more irritating than anything else is how Nintendo still seems to view FE as this handicapped franchise that can't survive on its own without Smash.

Like, I understand the concern, but when you have fans who have been complaining about FE characters ever since Roy returned in Smash 4, and then you decide to add what would be our third promotional FE character? I would say that's doing more harm to FE's image than good.

 

[Kokiden]

FE's been selling better since all this so 'more harm is being done than good' is outright a lie. If it was doing harm then Fates would have flopped outside Japan as a protest against Corrin. Oh wait, that didn't happen! Well, maybe they'd boycott Warriors to push against the franchise. Oh wait, it still sold above expectations! They would have boycotted Heroes. Wait, that didn't happen either! They would have boycotted Echoes. Whoops, Echoes sold well! They would have fought to ensure 3H flopped, especially after all the whining NoA's twitter account got for daring to market the game. Oh wait, 3H is a critical and commercial success that even somehow managed to get a divided fanbase to unite!


TLDR **** outta here with that 'more harm than good is being done'

I'd actually say smash exposure has done the series a lot of good.

Perhaps even going so far as to say smash is a big factor in FE being as big as it is now.

That being said, seeing too many FE reps in smash does get tiring for those of us who aren't too familiar with the series (will be trying TH after my bf is done with the game so I can see what all the hype is about.)

Future FE protagonists are basically guaranteed a slot for smash games now at the rate things are going.

I don't think that favoritism is a good thing.

 

[Pinguino21v]

Did you forget ?

Indeed, I did forget. Sorry for the eight fans of Duck Hunt!
Amaterasu would still play way differently.

 

[Cosmic77]

FE's been selling better since all this so 'more harm is being done than good' is outright a lie. If it was doing harm then Fates would have flopped outside Japan as a protest against Corrin. Oh wait, that didn't happen! Well, maybe they'd boycott Warriors to push against the franchise. Oh wait, it still sold above expectations! They would have boycotted Heroes. Wait, that didn't happen either! They would have boycotted Echoes. Whoops, Echoes sold well! They would have fought to ensure 3H flopped, especially after all the whining NoA's twitter account got for daring to market the game. Oh wait, 3H is a critical and commercial success that even somehow managed to get a divided fanbase to unite!


TLDR **** outta here with that 'more harm than good is being done'

Just because something sells well doesn't mean a negative perception can't exist. By the next quarter, SwSh will likely have beaten RS, DP, BW, XY, and SuMo in sales, yet you can still go to any post on Twitter from the official Pokemon account and find the same criticism it's been getting for the past six months.

Three Houses did fine without Smash, and there obviously wasn't much of a negative view on the game prior to Byleth's reveal. Adding him may have snagged Nintendo a couple thousand more sales and some quick promotional material, but clearly he's soured people's opinions on the game. Probably won't effect their cash flow, but I think they could've had the best of both worlds of they didn't add Byleth at all.

 

[Schnee117]

Imagine letting any character being in Smash make you have a worse opinion on their home game.

I'd actually say smash exposure has done the series a lot of good.

Perhaps even going so far as to say smash is a big factor in FE being as big as it is now.

Smash helped bring it to the West but FE didn't really hit it big until Awakening when Nintendo realised they need to actually put some effort in themselves.

 

[3BitSaurus]

If Nintendo ever cared about adding characters to support struggling franchises, which I doubt they do, I don't think any FE char past Robin would've made it.

That's the issue to me. They did care, back in Melee and Brawl. Heck, Marth's inclusion in Melee can be seen as that considering FE didn't even release in the west at the time. Nintendo's just been playing really safe with first parties since then.

And I don't think giving support to other franchises would mean FE getting the short end of the stick either, because with the success of TH, Byleth likely would have made it in season two or even in the next game. You don't need to rush a TH rep out just because it's the shiny new thing when the game can stand on its own merit perfectly well.

 

[Animegamingnerd]

I wonder what kind of mindset Nintendo is having when picking DLC characters. If they keep picking the "bit more obscure characters", then I might be able to feel a bit more hope for my dream character.

I think the mindset is a mixture of strong third party relationships they want to promote like Atlus, Square, and SNK and creating DLC characters they know will get people to buy the fighters in droves.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm about to head to work soon, but that Famitsu column sounds like it'll be the most controversial going into Vol 2 speculation with Sakurai saying there's too many swordies. It wouldn't surprise me if this was why they had Sothis say "too many swordsmen are there?".

 

[Diddy Kong]

FE's been selling better since all this so 'more harm is being done than good' is outright a lie. If it was doing harm then Fates would have flopped outside Japan as a protest against Corrin. Oh wait, that didn't happen! Well, maybe they'd boycott Warriors to push against the franchise. Oh wait, it still sold above expectations! They would have boycotted Heroes. Wait, that didn't happen either! They would have boycotted Echoes. Whoops, Echoes sold well! They would have fought to ensure 3H flopped, especially after all the whining NoA's twitter account got for daring to market the game. Oh wait, 3H is a critical and commercial success that even somehow managed to get a divided fanbase to unite!


TLDR **** outta here with that 'more harm than good is being done'

Round of applause for this man.

Byleth is a great newcomer.

 

[Herocin]

Didn't Sakurai have the final say? Nintendo picked the characters, but ultimately Sakurai was the one who got to decide if the character was able to work in smash or not, wasn't it?

This was from a translated piece last year so I could be wrong. I heard the idea floating around.

If he's saying there's too many swordsman in smash, then I am all the more discouraged about 2B and Dante getting in...

There's nothing wrong with sword characters. If not swords, you'll get fist fighters or guns.

I mean, every idea conceivable was probably done already, so I don't know why people talk as if there's too much of anything, or something brand new should be on the horizon.

Same thing goes for movesets.

There's comes a point where everything has been done already.

Only unique character that comes to mind in smash is Bayonetta. She does not fight like anyone else on the roster but maybe that's just me not being too familiar with everyone on the roster except for my handful of mains.

Only time there's such a thing as too much of anything is series representation.

FE is definitely overdone.

Although it was heavily implied he did it was never really confirmed. He said Nintendo picked the characters and he based the selection on whether they could work.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Round of applause for this man.

Byleth is a great newcomer.

Not a man but ok

Just because something sells well doesn't mean a negative perception can't exist. By the next quarter, SwSh will likely have beaten RS, DP, BW, XY, and SuMo in sales, yet you can still go to any post on Twitter from the official Pokemon account and find the same criticism it's been getting for the past six months.

Three Houses did fine without Smash, and there obviously wasn't much of a negative view on the game prior to Byleth's reveal. Adding him may have snagged Nintendo a couple thousand more sales and some quick promotional material, but clearly he's soured people's opinions on the game. Probably won't effect their cash flow, but I think they could've had the best of both worlds of they didn't add Byleth at all.

Pokemon is literally the largest multimedia franchise on the planet, meaning there are more fans of Pokemon than literally anything else including Star Wars, Marvel and DC, etc

See, you're making the assumption that the people who aren't buying 3H would have done so had Byleth not gotten in, those 'lost customers' were never buying it to begin with. This is like me saying that Pokemon Home's price point is what's going to stop me from buying SwoShi when we both know I never intended to buy Swoshi

 

[Kokiden]

I'm about to head to work soon, but that Famitsu column sounds like it'll be the most controversial going into Vol 2 speculation with Sakurai saying there's too many swordies. It wouldn't surprise me if this was why they had Sothis say "too many swordsmen are there?".

I don't think it means there's going to be more. Most likely it pertains to the currently existing roster.

Although it was heavily implied he did it was never really confirmed. He said Nintendo picked the characters and he based the selection on whether they could work.

Yeah that's what I initially thought.

He's the final gatekeeper but not as authoritative since Nintendo can probably just say something like "Well just make it work anyway."

 

[Cutie Gwen]

That's right and exciting! First party will return!

Idk man it's the same **** that was said for v1 yet people got really upset at the first party character

 

[Kokiden]

Idk man it's the same **** that was said for v1 yet people got really upset at the first party character

I think if it was a first party other than FE, they would've been better received.

It's not first party that's the issue, it's another FE character.

I don't know why some people just don't get why others aren't happy with another FE rep. I mean, I'm not trying to be confrontational here but it's kinda obvious why people got upset.

One doesn't have to sit at either extremes between love and hate to see why.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I think if it was a first party other than FE, they would've been better received.

I don't know why some people just don't get why others aren't happy with another FE rep. I mean, I'm not trying to be confrontational here but it's kinda obvious why people got upset.

One doesn't have to sit at either extremes between love and hate to see why.

Oh I get why. I'm just really smug about it because FE haters have ******* and screamed and moaned at anyone who likes FE for the past 5 years so I find Byleth's addition rather poetic, every time they complain, Nintendo feels a stronger urge to add more FE

Talk **** get hit at it's finest, this is why people kept spamming Hoes Mad

 

[Kokiden]

Oh I get why. I'm just really smug about it because FE haters have ******* and screamed and moaned at anyone who likes FE for the past 5 years so I find Byleth's addition rather poetic, every time they complain, Nintendo feels a stronger urge to add more FE
View attachment 261117
Talk **** get hit at it's finest, this is why people kept spamming Hoes Mad

Depends who you spam it against.

Just because someone doesn't like Byleth's addition doesn't mean they're going to personally attack you for it. Nothing wrong with voicing disapproval for the character.

If you spam against someone who's not saying something against you personally, but only towards the character, then you're no better off than the people who you're acting smugly towards imo. You're exactly the same as them, and are thus perpetuating the FE hate. Direct that **** at the right people I say.

 

[Herocin]

I don't think it means there's going to be more. Most likely it pertains to the currently existing roster.



Yeah that's what I initially thought.

He's the final gatekeeper but not as authoritative since Nintendo can probably just say something like "Well just make it work anyway."

I suppose he probably just meant he turned down really out there characters who would have not been too unique or were awkward to imagine in game while accepting characters who could have realistically worked despite any minor shortcomings that may have hitched their way to smash

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Depends who you spam it against.

Just because someone doesn't like Byleth's addition doesn't mean they're going to personally attack you for it. Nothing wrong with voicing disapproval for the character.

If you spam against someone who's not saying something against you personally, but only towards the character, then you're no better off than the people who you're acting smugly towards imo. You're exactly the same as them, and are thus perpetuating the FE hate. Direct that **** at the right people I say.

Oh I'm well aware, hence why I'm mostly a ***** about it to the people who scream at "I wish we had more FE songs, stages or ATs" as it's hella vindicating seeing toxic ****heads getting clapped back by Smash itself. I know a lot of people who are/were disappointed, including my partner, but seeing people who were perfectly happy because of Banjo suddenly whine is great afrer they said they wouldn't anymire

 

[Gyrom8]

Sakurai you hack, why didn't you give us playable Lorenz then

 

[Opossum]

Sakurai you hack, why didn't you give us playable Lorenz then

He had to be contained in the stage background or else the game would unravel upon itself from his sheer playable presence.

 

[Schnee117]

Sakurai you hack, why didn't you give us playable Lorenz then

A second Shadow Dragon character that isn't Caeda? Surely you jestin'

/s

 

[PSIGuy]

A second Shadow Dragon character that isn't Caeda? Surely you jestin'

/s

What are you talking about? He's already in.

Or at least, his clone is.

 

[?????????????]

He had to be contained in the stage background or else the game would unravel upon itself from his sheer playable presence.

Quite so! One as noble as the great Lorenz Hellman Gloucester could never stoop as to tussle with the commonfolk in such a barbaric fashion, brawling on the floor like some beast. Leave those intricacies to the Professor, and delight in a exquisite cup of tea!

 

[clearandsweet]

Quite so! One as noble as the great Lorenz Hellman Gloucester could never stoop as to tussle with the commonfolk in such a barbaric fashion, brawling on the floor like some beast. Leave those intricacies to the Professor, and delight in a exquisite cup of tea!

Oh God now I'm reminded of why I deliberately killed Lorenz and Ignatz off in my Golden Deer playthrough. Definitely the correct decision.

Frankly, the character writing in 3H wasn't half as good as it's made out to be. The plot/character stuff is so awkwardly forced together and into the confines of the gameplay that it never really feels coherent. Have you guys played the Crimson Flower route? Or at least tried to read Edelgard's justifications? Oh my God.

Literally the last well-written Fire Emblem story beat was Lucina and the stories of the children from the Future Past in Awakening.

 

[Opossum]

Oh God now I'm reminded of why I deliberately killed Lorenz and Ignatz off in my Golden Deer playthrough. Definitely the correct decision.

Frankly, the character writing in 3H wasn't half as good as it's made out to be. The plot/character stuff is so awkwardly forced together and into the confines of the gameplay that it never really feels coherent. Have you guys played the Crimson Flower route? Or at least tried to read Edelgard's justifications? Oh my God.

Literally the last well-written Fire Emblem story beat was Lucina and the stories of the children from the Future Past in Awakening.

I'd argue just about everything in this post but this really isn't the thread for this.

 

[Deleted member]

I suppose he probably just meant he turned down really out there characters who would have not been too unique

I don’t believe he would do that.

 

[RaintheCriminalWhirlwind]

I suppose he probably just meant he turned down really out there characters who would have not been too unique or were awkward to imagine in game while accepting characters who could have realistically worked despite any minor shortcomings that may have hitched their way to smash

Sakurai made a moveset for Plant, the Icies and Duck hunt dog. I can't believe that

 

[DevaAshera]

Due to criticisms with my previous iteration of my Saber in Smash Template, I did an updated version..much more informed since I've played/watched a LOT more Fate series stuff since I made that one and this one.

(Click for Full View)

To be real, he already gave off this vibe with his Corrin statements. The FE part, not the swordie part.

But I guess it'll be interesting to see how people who are loathed to find any fault with the roster reconcile the actual creator doing as much. Assuming this was translated accurately.

Well, I wanted Byleth and I love them, so my opinion about the character hasn't changed..plus I already knew Nintendo picked Byleth and I do feel that they were the best choice for the game since they are a big part of the path regardless of who is chosen.

 

[Garteam]

I feel like a lot of people are making assumptions with Sakurai's quotes.

No, Nintendo picking the fighters in the pass was not them strong arming Sakurai into Byleth. Previous interviews showed that Sakurai has veto power over Nintendo if he doesn't think the character is realizable. If he didn't want to work on Byleth, he could've just said no and Nintendo would've gave him something else.

Likewise, this doesn't mean Sakurai is admitting Byleth was the wrong choice for Three Houses representation. Pushdustin literally says the next tweet that he's not sure if "the characters I liked weren't given preference" simply refers to Sakurai being unable to choice someone he wants who wasn't approved by Nintendo or if refers to a specific Three Houses character. Plus, the moveset that Sakurai went for couldn't be used for literally any other character, as Byleth is realistically the only character that could rep all Three Houses in a single moveset. Every other character is affiliated with some faction in another way, so Byleth is the only character who can use all three weapons at one time and have it make sense.

 

[Herocin]

Sakurai made a moveset for Plant, the Icies and Duck hunt dog. I can't believe that

He probably would have if a certain character overlapped too much with another character. If he just gave a certain character a different attack and it was something they were known for then it would just feel like he added an attack in its place for the sake of differentiation which isn’t how Sakurai does things. He comes up with carefully knit, cohesive and unique playstyles that don’t feel like a poorly designed 4 special moveset paragraph for characters you see everywhere on the internet. I’m not saying Sakurai can’t come up with a moveset for anyone because he can but judging by how Sakurai designs characters if to him they feel boring, inconsistent samey then he’d probably drop the idea of them.

 

[osby]

Due to criticisms with my previous iteration of my Saber in Smash Template, I did an updated version..much more informed since I've played/watched a LOT more Fate series stuff since I made that one and this one.
View attachment 261120

Okay, but why add Saber in the first place if she doesn't come with Fatal Battle?

(jokes aside, I liked this a lot, especially the alts)

 

[MooMew64]

Add in more FE. More.

Never stop.

 

[ZeldaPlayer87]

Sakurai: Nobody knows at Nintendo who the next fighter is! (Reference to Byleth reveal)

Also Sakurai: Nintendo picked all the characters.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

A second Shadow Dragon character that isn't Caeda? Surely you jestin'

/s

The only other candidates are Navarre (which wouldn't help things), Nyna, and Tiki. Of the three I'd pick Nyna because I don't like Tiki all that much.

Oh God now I'm reminded of why I deliberately killed Lorenz and Ignatz off in my Golden Deer playthrough. Definitely the correct decision.

Frankly, the character writing in 3H wasn't half as good as it's made out to be. The plot/character stuff is so awkwardly forced together and into the confines of the gameplay that it never really feels coherent. Have you guys played the Crimson Flower route? Or at least tried to read Edelgard's justifications? Oh my God.

Literally the last well-written Fire Emblem story beat was Lucina and the stories of the children from the Future Past in Awakening.

I can understand not liking Lorenz, but how could you do that to poor Ignatz!?!

Heavy disagree on the part about the writing though. Sure the support conversations can present character arcs out of order (For example, Ignatz accepted an offer to become a knight who also paints but then started being gloomy about his paintings not being able to help anyone to Leonie) but there are genuinely great moments in there like the conversations between Lysithea and Raphiel or Lorenz and Marianne.

EDIT: They're also not trying to steer each conversation to marriage, which probably helps. I'm not counting Byleth because he doesn't exactly converse with people. lol

Add in more FE. More.

Never stop.

Agreed. Just don't forget the other series. We need more characters from them too. The more the merrier I always say.

 

[OrpheusTelos]

Okay I see this thread is having a rational discussion about a leaked Famitsu column that hasn't even been fully translated yet, let alone released. Good to see that people totally aren't just using this to rationalize their crackpot conspiracy theories and justify their "unga bunga Fire Emblem bad" rhetoric

 

[MooMew64]

Swords don't even make up a quarter of the roster.

Like, it's an 80+ roster at this point. Overlap is gonna happen. But nah, I guess punchy-kicky character #57 is 100% a breath of fresh air compared to sword #20.

 

[DevaAshera]

Okay, but why add Saber in the first place if she doesn't come with Fatal Battle?

(jokes aside, I liked this a lot, especially the alts)

Both times I've made these people have given me yet another song I LOVE that I would have added had I known of it lol
Consider it part of the 'And More' part of that lol
Thanks, I worked hard on them..just the new ones took the last 4-6 hours for me to make them..and that was with having finished edits I could alter these new ones off of..though Nero, Lily, Mordred, and Mysterious Hero X Alter Colour References are entirely new for this one, replacing various Nero alts I'd made before being told Nero wouldn't make a good skin for Artoria and also replacing Lapis Lazuli dress reference Artoria with Saber Lily (who originally was a Nero alt for the old one).

 

[Guynamednelson]

Sakurai: Nobody knows at Nintendo who the next fighter is! (Reference to Byleth reveal)

Also Sakurai: Nintendo picked all the characters.

He said that many people at Nintendo don't know, not all of the company.