Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Honestly true. I'd prefer the knight to be in smash and it would probably be a lot easier for nintendo to model his character.

Eh. I'd really just depend on how good they were at synthetic fur textures. Otherwise they'd be about the same. Heck, The Knight could be a bit more work if they had to do something about the Mii Swordfighter's toes (since The Knight doesn't have any). Personally, I'd add both so that the Mii Brawler and Mii Swordfighter can both get their time in the spotlight. The Mii Gunner can't hog it all. lol

Now that I think of it, I can't say I like any of the Koopalings or Jr. But I like the moveset to use them every once in a blue moon. I guess Iggy and Roy are alright.

I like Larry's design the best. To be honest the Koopalings got a poor lot in life. Everyone hates seeing them because they take over each game they're in, but despite being in many different games (including 3 RPGs) they still haven't been characterized beyond Mortan being a neanderthal, Ludwig being the smart one, and Wendy being the girl one.

EDIT: And Larry's particular about his steak I guess...Riveting.

I can see why you'd put Metroidvanias in platformers but they also tend to get categorised as action/adventure also. Though I guess it doesn't really matter.

Action/Adventure seems to be a meaningless genre to be honest. Like, in what world are Devil May Cry, Metal Gear, Metroid, and Uncharted even remotely similar?

 

[perfectchaos83]

Wasn't it the other way around? I remember Verge's list of 7 Square characters being around before the datamine, with Luminary and Erdrick both being on that list

Timeline

August 2018: Vergeben Said he had heard of an SE rep
September 2018: Leakypandy heavily implies a DQ character would be revealed at the VGAs
November 2018: Verge's List of 7 SE reps is leaked. Erdrick, Luminary and Slime were the names he heard the most. He eventually confesses to it being legit
Dec 5th 2018: Patch released and Datamined. Brave was in those files. This specific detail (alongside Jack) was kept secret by dataminers
January 2019: Brave datamine publicly revealed.

 

[DevaAshera]

Pikmin's genre would be real time strategy (or just strategy here).

Also don't really agree with Metal Gear being in shooter. It's more stealth action/adventure. Shooting in Metal Gear is at times either secondary to everything or something you're actively punished for doing outside of using non-lethal weapons.

I can see why you'd put Metroidvanias in platformers but they also tend to get categorised as action/adventure also. Though I guess it doesn't really matter.

Metroidvania has a not of platformer in their DNA and have a lot of platforming, so I count them as platformers over Action-Adventure, which I see as less platform heavy.
I haven't played enough Pikmin, but I suppose you'd be right.
I should have done 'Stealth' or even possibly 'Survival' for Metal Gear, but since there's still gun play, I counted its base genre as 'Shooter'..like I would Resident Evil despite that also being more 'Survival Horror', considering it essentially created that genre. However, since Metal Gear & Resident Evil both feature guns & aiming, even if discouraged, I counted it as Shooters. I mean, in both games, you are required to use guns to fight bosses at various points.

 

[PLATINUM7]

Eh. I'd really just depend on how good they were at synthetic fur textures. Otherwise they'd be about the same. Heck, The Knight could be a bit more work if they had to do something about the Mii Swordfighter's toes (since The Knight doesn't have any). Personally, I'd add both so that the Mii Brawler and Mii Swordfighter can both get their time in the spotlight. The Mii Gunner can't hog it all. lol


I like Larry's design the best. To be honest the Koopalings got a poor lot in life. Everyone hates seeing them because they take over each game they're in, but despite being in many different games (including 3 RPGs) they still haven't been characterized beyond Mortan being a neanderthal, Ludwig being the smart one, and Wendy being the girl one.


Action/Adventure seems to be a meaningless genre to be honest. Like, in what world are Devil May Cry, Metal Gear, Metroid, and Uncharted even remotely similar?

Which is partly why I said it doesn't matter. Most times I see them categorised as something other than Metroidvania, they're listed as action/adventure.

At least it gives some idea of what's happening. Going on to other gaming sites and seeing the thousands of microgenres people make up gets confusing very fast.

 

[Mamboo07]

Ah, fighting over Fire Emblem.

Anyway, here is a fun game: smash has games that span from 1980 to 2020. Ignoring skins, 1988, 1995, 2000, 2008, 2011, 2014 and 2018 are not represented by a fighter.

Who would you pick to fill each year?

1988-Altered Beast (Altered Beast)

1995-Poochy (Yoshi's Island)

2000-Vivi (Final Fantasy IX)

2008-Shake King (Wario Land: Shake It!)

2011-Sackboy (Little Big Planet 2)

2014-Octodad (Octodad: Dadiest Catch)

2018-Nergigante (Monster Hunter: World)

 

[DevaAshera]

Action/Adventure seems to be a meaningless genre to be honest. Like, in what world are Devil May Cry, Metal Gear, Metroid, and Uncharted even remotely similar?

Devil May Cry would fall in the 'Action' side of things since it, like Bayonetta, is part of the 'Stylish Action' genre.
Metal Gear is technically part of the 'Stealth' genre, but I count it, and Uncharted, as more of 'Shooter' or 'Shooter-Adventure' games (or just 'Adventure' for Uncharted).
For The Legend of Zelda, I consider that to be an Action-Adventure game.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Devil May Cry would fall in the 'Action' side of things since it, like Bayonetta, is part of the 'Stylish Action' genre.
Metal Gear is technically part of the 'Stealth' genre, but I count it, and Uncharted, as more of 'Shooter' or 'Shooter-Adventure' games (or just 'Adventure' for Uncharted).
For The Legend of Zelda, I consider that to be an Action-Adventure game.

How is Metal Gear, a Tactitcal Espionage Game, 'technically' a stealth game but undeniably a shooter? Metal Gear was conceptualized by "Hey what if we DIDN'T have to kill the bad guys but rather avoid contact with them?"

 

[DevaAshera]

How is Metal Gear, a Tactitcal Espionage Game, 'technically' a stealth game but undeniably a shooter? Metal Gear was conceptualized by "Hey what if we DIDN'T have to kill the bad guys but rather avoid contact with them?"

Because of basic gameplay functions.
You have an aiming mechanic and a shooting mechanic that work together and you have to use them to take out bosses in the game, none of them can be really avoided aside from a handful such as The End.
When I say 'technically', I mean that Survival would be its more accurate genre, but I was going by the most basic of basic when it came to genres I chose.
I suppose I could have went further and added further genres such as Stealth, Survival, etc.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Because of basic gameplay functions.
You have an aiming mechanic and a shooting mechanic that work together and you have to use them to take out bosses in the game, none of them can be really avoided aside from a handful such as The End.
When I say 'technically', I mean that Survival would be its more accurate genre, but I was going by the most basic of basic when it came to genres I chose.
I suppose I could have went further and added further genres such as Stealth, Survival, etc.

Ok but that's not the main feature, the Stealth is. Even then, there are more times you're sneaking around than time you're in an unavoidable fight

 

[DevaAshera]

Ok but that's not the main feature, the Stealth is. Even then, there are more times you're sneaking around than time you're in an unavoidable fight

I know. Like I said, I was just going by basic gameplay functions.
Its not a big deal really. Its just my personal view on how genres work.

 

[Ayumi Tachibana]

Sakurai Famitsu once again said that all the DLC new comers were dicided by Nintendo not by his preferences. They brought the plans for every DLC to him.
He also said that he understands there are too many FE characters and swordsman. But everything was decided from the start so he just did what he asked for. His job is not to think about the look of the roster but to create variety of play styles.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Sakurai Famitsu once again said that all the DLC new comers were dicided by Nintendo not by his preferences. They brought the plans for every DLC to him.
He also said that he understands there are too many FE characters and swordsman. But everything was decided from the start so he just did what he asked for. His job is not to think about the look of the roster but to create variety of play styles.

This means Nintendo chose to be incredibly cultured by adding in Joker and Terry. God bless

 

[Icedragonadam]

I don't have a problem with swordfighters as long as they are unique from each other. What is the real problem is with how the FE reps are represented. If you cut the fat out, I'm pretty sure the FE and swordfighter backlash wouldn't be so bad.

One of my most wanted is a swordfighter.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Sakurai Famitsu once again said that all the DLC new comers were dicided by Nintendo not by his preferences. They brought the plans for every DLC to him.
He also said that he understands there are too many FE characters and swordsman. But everything was decided from the start so he just did what he asked for. His job is not to think about the look of the roster but to create variety of play styles.

Source? Because damn, talk about throwing the higher-ups under the bus.

 

[XorahnGaia]

Here's the source, I think the full column will be out tomorrow

There was a problem fetching the tweet

 

[Icedragonadam]

For character selection, a character he liked wasn't given preference. Nintendo had chosen the characters. He worked with the character when Three Houses was still under development. pic.twitter.com/U0MVML3ubH

— Will (PushDustIn) (@PushDustIn) February 5, 2020

Also, Byleth wasn't the character Sakurai wanted to put in as the Three Houses rep.

 

[N3ON]

To be real, he already gave off this vibe with his Corrin statements. The FE part, not the swordie part.

But I guess it'll be interesting to see how people who are loathed to find any fault with the roster reconcile the actual creator doing as much. Assuming this was translated accurately.

 

[Krankees]

This means Nintendo chose to be incredibly cultured by adding in Joker and Terry. God bless

I wonder what kind of mindset Nintendo is having when picking DLC characters. If they keep picking the "bit more obscure characters", then I might be able to feel a bit more hope for my dream character.

 

[Renmazuo]

Well he already gave off that vibe in byleth's presentation itself. Honestly sounded like he was trying to smooth things over.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

You gotta at least praise Nintendo for not going overboard with promotional characters, many people around here were all doom and gloom when it was first announced that they were picking the characters, but they still went with a lot of ambitious picks that they had little to gain from other than the actual DLC sales themselves. Of course Sakurai still has some input as to who's realizable and who isn't, so he isn't exactly being forced against his will, which should be clear from the passion he's displayed about every DLC character.

 

[Idon]

I don't know who Sakurai preferred, but I'm going to assume it's Dimitri because it makes me feel better.

Also because unlike the other relics, Areadbhar is at least somewhat usable.

 

[N3ON]

I still find it hard to believe Nintendo would be benevolent and magnanimous enough to choose Banjo.

But I guess it was not only a show of good faith towards the fans, but Microsoft as well. And they're an increasingly important partner for Nintendo these days it seems.

 

[I.D.]

You gotta at least praise Nintendo for not going overboard with promotional characters, many people around here were all doom and gloom when it was first announced that they were picking the characters, but they still went with a lot of ambitious picks that they had little to gain from other than the actual DLC sales themselves. Of course Sakurai still has some input as to who's realizable and who isn't, so he isn't exactly being forced against his will, which should be clear from the passion he's displayed about every DLC character.

Yeah but what people feared the most was getting CORRIN'D again. Guess what happened.

I still find it hard to believe Nintendo would be benevolent and magnanimous enough to choose Banjo.

But I guess it was not only a show of good faith towards the fans, but Microsoft as well. And they're an increasingly important partner for Nintendo these days it seems.

According to that recent Rare interview, the Rare guys made the first move.

 

[PSIGuy]

Byleth retroactively justifies the fears people had about marketing picks to be honest. It's exactly the kind of pick people were actively dreading and they got it. People latched onto Reggie's "new worlds" comments because they thought it meant we wouldn't get that sort of pick.

When 3 Houses first came out and people started datamining it, I noticed they had songs tied to amiibo and while every other song had an FE amiibo accounting for it, there was an extra song originating from 3 Houses that didn't, ostensibly because it would be for a 3 House amiibo... That and Byleth's VA breaking NDA made me think Byleth had an actual chance, and there's discord messages of me half a year ago saying "I really hope it isn't Byleth" after discovering this. I want to establish that this Byleth hate isn't out of nowhere, it's not "this isn't the character I wanted", it's literally "This is the exact sort of character, the EXACT CHARACTER, I do not want to see in Smash".

It's made me painfully aware that Smash DLC is Marketing First, Character Second, and wary of Season 2 as a result. The likes of Banjo will always be outliers, and the best you can hope for is tasteful choices that pull double duty of marketing and legacy/merit. Hero in retrospect was a fantastic example, showcasing the entire Dragon Quest series with a fighter enhanced with a unique mechanic. Terry does this pretty well too with the huge song catalogue and cameos. Joker is closest to Byleth for shameless marketing but at least they're a new series. Banjo is literally there for positive press, like a news story about a rescued kitten.

I'm just hoping for an SMT rep because SMTV is on the horizon, and glad that the base game wasn't so confined to marketing that it could add K. Rool, Ridley and the Belmonts in one fell swoop. An SMT character could be really cool in Smash, or they could be a Spirit Board event.

 

[I.D.]

Byleth retroactively justifies the fears people had about marketing picks to be honest. It's exactly the kind of pick people were actively dreading and they got it. People latched onto Reggie's "new worlds" comments because they thought it meant we wouldn't get that sort of pick.

Reggie didn't say anything about new worlds but the end result is the same anyway. He said the fighters pass would consist of "characters you would not anticipate being in smash bros". So of course the last character is... the one thing literally everyone was anticipating, a character from the upcoming Fire Emblem game.

 

[---]

Reggie didn't say anything about new worlds but the end result is the same anyway. He said the fighters pass would consist of "characters you would not anticipate being in smash bros". So of course the last character is... the one thing literally everyone was anticipating, a character from the upcoming Fire Emblem game.

I'm still of the mind that if they had switched Byleth with Terry/Banjo or saved them as Fighter 6/7, the flaming between Smash and FE diehards wouldn't have been as nearly bad.

Will be interested to learn further details once the full column is released. We all knew Nintendo execs were involved, but we also knew Sakurai is a big FE fan from past interviews (he did an Iwata Asks for FE11). Not that we want to read too far into the weeds mind you.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Reggie didn't say anything about new worlds but the end result is the same anyway. He said the fighters pass would consist of "characters you would not anticipate being in smash bros". So of course the last character is... the one thing literally everyone was anticipating, a character from the upcoming Fire Emblem game.

To be fair, Sakurai did say many people at Nintendo didn't know Byleth would happen, and this might've included Reggie.

 

[cosmicB]

His job is not to think about the look of the roster but to create variety of play styles.

I wonder if this can hint at future picks. Obviously it would be hard to narrow characters down from just that, but we could maybe determine some character that wouldn't get in due to being too similar to other characters already on the roster.

Of course I say that, but then you realize some of the DLC characters would be conceptually similar to other characters on the roster and Sakurai managed to find a way to make them stand out regardless.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I'm still of the mind that if they had switched Byleth with Terry/Banjo or saved them as Fighter 6/7, the flaming between Smash and FE diehards wouldn't have been as nearly bad.

Will be interested to learn further details once the full column is released. We all knew Nintendo execs were involved, but we also knew Sakurai is a big FE fan from past interviews (he did an Iwata Asks for FE11). Not that we want to read too far into the weeds mind you.

The flaming would always be there as Smash fans are petty as ****, case and point, see how people were angry as hell because they put Isabelle in the same game as Ridley and K.Rool and how unfair it was to 'real' fans

For character selection, a character he liked wasn't given preference. Nintendo had chosen the characters. He worked with the character when Three Houses was still under development. pic.twitter.com/U0MVML3ubH

— Will (PushDustIn) (@PushDustIn) February 5, 2020

Also, Byleth wasn't the character Sakurai wanted to put in as the Three Houses rep.

Edie gang wins again

 

[Ben Holt]

Byleth is fun, so they get the pass.
Lol. Pass. Get it?
But to be honest, I really just want more than one character (besides Echoes) from each Third Party series. If Fire Emblem gets eight characters, Sonic definitely deserves some too.
Sonic, Shadow (Sonic Echo), Tails, Knuckles, Eggman, Amy, Silver, Metal Sonic. Boom!
If we were to go 10 like Pokémon, add Blaze and Rouge.

 

[Kokiden]

Didn't Sakurai have the final say? Nintendo picked the characters, but ultimately Sakurai was the one who got to decide if the character was able to work in smash or not, wasn't it?

This was from a translated piece last year so I could be wrong. I heard the idea floating around.

If he's saying there's too many swordsman in smash, then I am all the more discouraged about 2B and Dante getting in...

There's nothing wrong with sword characters. If not swords, you'll get fist fighters or guns.

I mean, every idea conceivable was probably done already, so I don't know why people talk as if there's too much of anything, or something brand new should be on the horizon.

Same thing goes for movesets.

There's comes a point where everything has been done already.

Only unique character that comes to mind in smash is Bayonetta. She does not fight like anyone else on the roster but maybe that's just me not being too familiar with everyone on the roster except for my handful of mains.

Only time there's such a thing as too much of anything is series representation.

FE is definitely overdone.

 

[XorahnGaia]

For character selection, a character he liked wasn't given preference. Nintendo had chosen the characters. He worked with the character when Three Houses was still under development. pic.twitter.com/U0MVML3ubH

— Will (PushDustIn) (@PushDustIn) February 5, 2020

Also, Byleth wasn't the character Sakurai wanted to put in as the Three Houses rep.

I mean, that phrase doesn't necessarily point to a 3H character. I don't want to fuel any conspiracy theory, but i'd advise to wait for the full translation.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Yeah but what people feared the most was getting CORRIN'D again. Guess what happened.

Might just be me, but 1/5, and with more to come, isn’t so bad. Corrin was much worse as it was 1/4 newcomers, and hit us right at the end of a game that already went out of its way to focus on recency during base game. Sure, Byleth was supposed to be the last, and that was a stupid move, but things have panned out differently.

I think once we get FP6, most people will be able to move on from the Byleth drama (unless it’s someone like a new Pokémon, but I doubt that). The worst thing about Corrin was that there was no chance to bury that bad taste, he was part of the last Smash content we’d get for 4 years, so it took a long time for everyone to move on, as can be seen by how pre-Ultimate predictions were ruled by pessimism (the roster that we did get would definitely have been labelled as too good to be true).

 

[Mamboo07]

It breaks my heart that poor Sakurai is always blamed by Smash fans when Geno, Waluigi, Isaac, Rex/Pyra, Ashley and many overrated requested characters don't get into Smash. (Makes me want to hug the poor man for trying to make us happy.)

 

[Cosmic77]

What I find more irritating than anything else is how Nintendo still seems to view FE as this handicapped franchise that can't survive on its own without Smash.

Like, I understand the concern, but when you have fans who have been complaining about FE characters ever since Roy returned in Smash 4, and then you decide to add what would be our third promotional FE character? I would say that's doing more harm to FE's image than good.

 

[Kokiden]

It breaks my heart that poor Sakurai is always blamed by Smash fans when Geno, Waluigi, Isaac, Rex/Pyra, Ashley and many overrated requested characters don't get into Smash. (Makes me want to hug the poor man for trying to make us happy.)

I've never condoned outlandish slander or direct insults aimed towards Sakurai.

I mean I get feeling disappointed. I was when Byleth was announced, but you don't go on social media and tweet abuse at someone, especially when it's most likely a corporate decision at the end of the day.

If Nintendo chooses the lineup, then it opens up more possibilities actually because there's networking, favors and promotions going on behind the scenes.

 

[I.D.]

Didn't Sakurai have the final say? Nintendo picked the characters, but ultimately Sakurai was the one who got to decide if the character was able to work in smash or not, wasn't it?

People have twisted so much Sakurai's role in Smash Ultimate's DLC there is widespread confusion now (I admit I myself fell for it without doing proper research).

If you go back and read what Sakurai has been saying all along, then Nintendo, and not him, has made the selection for BOTH fighters passes, negotiating with other companies, etc. From the recent Rare interview we also know it's also up to other companies to contact Nintendo and offer them their characters, instead of simply waiting for a call. The only say Sakurai has regarding DLC fighters is a veto power that he can use to reject characters he thinks he cannot make work properly (eg Heihachi in Smash 4). He's never said or implied he can use this privilege to reject characters he doesn't like, it's simply a last resort measure for characters that are not realizable in his eyes.

 

[Knight Dude]

Didn't Sakurai have the final say? Nintendo picked the characters, but ultimately Sakurai was the one who got to decide if the character was able to work in smash or not, wasn't it?

If he's saying there's too many swordsman in smash, then I am all the more discouraged about 2B and Dante getting in...

There's nothing wrong with sword characters. If not swords, you'll get fist fighters or guns.

I mean, every idea conceivable was probably done already, so I don't know why people talk as if there's too much of anything, or something brand new should be on the horizon.

Same thing goes for movesets.

There's comes a point where everything has been done already.

Only unique character that comes to mind in smash is Bayonetta. She does not fight like anyone else on the roster but maybe that's just me not being too familiar with everyone on the roster except for my handful of mains.

I mean the game has a lot of unique characters. No one's quite like Pac-Man, Incineroar, Mega Man and Terry's quite different from Ryu and Ken, despite also having inputs.

I do agree that people over state the sword stuff, likely because of FE and the like. But Dante's nothing like any of them really. Lloyd's a Dual Sword guy, Hayabusa's got plenty of ninja tools on top of the dragon sword. Zero's got a laser sword that can be enhanced with elements and so on.

I wouldn't mind more Gun/Laser characters like MMX, Doom Slayer, Master Chief or Bill Rizer and the like either, since that's probably the least explored of the three you mentioned.

Then we got weirdos like DDD, Ice Climbers and Simon/Richter who use less than common weapons like Hammers and Whips.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

What I find more irritating than anything else is how Nintendo still seems to view FE as this handicapped franchise that can't survive on its own without Smash.

Like, I understand the concern, but when you have fans who have been complaining about FE characters ever since Roy returned in Smash 4, and then you decide to add what would be our third promotional FE character? I would say that's doing more harm to FE's image than good.

FE's been selling better since all this so 'more harm is being done than good' is outright a lie. If it was doing harm then Fates would have flopped outside Japan as a protest against Corrin. Oh wait, that didn't happen! Well, maybe they'd boycott Warriors to push against the franchise. Oh wait, it still sold above expectations! They would have boycotted Heroes. Wait, that didn't happen either! They would have boycotted Echoes. Whoops, Echoes sold well! They would have fought to ensure 3H flopped, especially after all the whining NoA's twitter account got for daring to market the game. Oh wait, 3H is a critical and commercial success that even somehow managed to get a divided fanbase to unite!


TLDR **** outta here with that 'more harm than good is being done'

 

[Idon]

What I find more irritating than anything else is how Nintendo still seems to view FE as this handicapped franchise that can't survive on its own without Smash.

Like, I understand the concern, but when you have fans who have been complaining about FE characters ever since Roy returned in Smash 4, and then you decide to add what would be our third promotional FE character? I would say that's doing more harm to FE's image than good.

I don't think I see it like that at all.

I believe it's moreso a relatively safe option from a still growing franchise. If Nintendo ever cared about adding characters to support struggling franchises, which I doubt they do, I don't think any FE char past Robin would've made it. It seems the timing coincided for the last 2 games so they wanted to jump at the opportunity for cross-promotion.

Also, I doubt FE's supposed hurt image in smash matters considering it's grown a sizable core fanbase that has growth independent of Smash and those angry at FE's continued characters probably weren't into FE to begin with (or ever will be).