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Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

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Herocin

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I still say he's worth keeping an eye on again he predicted Piranha Plant and Dracula and Marx as bosses.

Not as credible as say Vergeben but still has gotten things right.
But it throws into question whether they know anything about DLC and are just being fed false info. Marx and Dracula were base game and piranha plant was most likely planned for base game too. Maybe worth looking out for but shouldn’t be took too seriously
 
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LipeCau

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Ah, fighting over Fire Emblem.

Anyway, here is a fun game: smash has games that span from 1980 to 2020. Ignoring skins, 1988, 1995, 2000, 2008, 2011, 2014 and 2018 are not represented by a fighter.

Who would you pick to fill each year?
1988 - Miria from The Guardian Legend
1995 - Ben from Full Throttle, Dixie from DKC2 and Crono from Chrono Trigger
2000 - Vivi from Final Fantasy IX
2008 - Fallout 3's main character
2011 - Dragonborn from Skyrim and Dark Soul's main character
2014 - Shovel Knight
2018 - Madeline from Celeste
 

Evil Trapezium

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But I literally pointed that out. That is the twitter trick
Oh well. At least you won't get comments saying "What the heck is the twitter trick" now.

I still say he's worth keeping an eye on again he predicted Piranha Plant and Dracula and Marx as bosses.

Not as credible as say Vergeben but still has gotten things right.
Vergeben hasn't predicted anything correct since the base game. I'm not believing anything he says until he gives us a name like he used to.
 

TMNTSSB4

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Oh well. At least you won't get comments saying "What the heck is the twitter trick" now.



Vergeben hasn't predicted anything correct since the base game. I'm not believing anything he says until he gives us a name like he used to.
Verge probably gave up trying at this point
 

blackghost

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  • Officer Howard - this I can talk with certainty as I've played Astral Chain enough to be acquainted with its battle system. Howard would be another duo character like Rex and (whatever Blade here) but they operate a little more... complex. While the Blade passes their weapon to Rex, and occasionally receives it back for special attacks, Howard and their Legion operate in unison. You control both Howard AND their Legion, one such feature being the chain ability, where Howard and the Legion loop around an enemy, binding it in their chains. They can even extend their chain to trip up large enemies. That... much as I love Astral Chain, if I were Sakurai I wouldn't know where to begin when it came to translating that to Smash
this is all just my opinion of course, but I feel like it's all a lot more complex than it looks.
astral chain is one of the few games that has a true implementation issue. do you make the legion an ice climber AI? which is close to the game but not quite. do you make him a puppeteer? it may make the character higher on the tier list but its not proper representation of the game series. astral chain is a beautiful combat game with truly unique mechanics and ideas. but that same fact may keep it out of smash. for now at least.

to be fair inklings ink mechanics also kept it out of 4 because there was nothing in the engine for the inkling to ink opponents which id arguw is critical to the character being represented correctly.
 

DarthEnderX

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You know I've been thinking about this. What if Sakurai made a completely original character for the Super Smash Bros series and was like birthed from the defeat of Galeem and Dharkon? That'd be kind of cool if it was like one of the DLC characters and it gets like Galeem and Dharkon powers. I'd like to see that.
Other than 4th party characters, I can't think of anything I want less than Smash OCs.

It already pisses me off that they keep taking up boss slots that could have gone to iconic video game bosses.
 

GoodGrief741

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Ah, fighting over Fire Emblem.

Anyway, here is a fun game: smash has games that span from 1980 to 2020. Ignoring skins, 1988, 1995, 2000, 2008, 2011, 2014 and 2018 are not represented by a fighter.

Who would you pick to fill each year?
Ooo, lemme try

1988: Ryu Hayabusa (Ninja Gaiden)
1995: Dixie Kong (Donkey Kong Country 2: Diddy's Kong Quest)
2000: Skull Kid (The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask)*
2008: Chorus Kids (Rhythm Heaven)
2011: Dovahkiin (The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim)
2014: Shovel Knight (Shovel Knight)
2018: Arthur Morgan (Red Dead Redemption 2)

Rate as Pass (cut out the one you like the least to make 6)

*If you count Skull Kid as technically debuting in Ocarina, then Agent 47 (Hitman: Codename 47)
 

blackghost

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Corrin? Turning into a dragon? It's not all that unique because all that really represents this in their moveset is another Counter. It's a strong Counter, but it's still a Counter..and they aren't good in Ultimate, and many people disliked their addition in Smash 4, despite being pretty good.
.
corrin turns into a dragon in half her moveset. jab, tilts, final smash, counter, bair, smashes, nair, dair. maybe more. dont debate in bad faith please.

im glad people are more open to 2b. but if we only get one action game character i'd expect it to be dante. he's the creator if the action genre/spectacle fighter genre and he doubles as capcom's top 4 most known character.

plus 2b is in soulcalibur.
 
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Icedragonadam

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As much as I believe Hayabusa is in Vol 2. I don't trust anything from IamShifty's mouth, that guy shifted the goalpost so much since September that it's comical at this point.
 

CapitaineCrash

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Other than 4th party characters, I can't think of anything I want less than Smash OCs.

It already pisses me off that they keep taking up boss slots that could have gone to iconic video game bosses.
This is also one of the thing that I like the least about subspace. You have this huge cast of franchise and most of the level you're just using different form of Primid. At least Smash run understand that and use a bunch of Nintendo enemies.
 

N3ON

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So weird that Sakurai still hasn't earned the benefit of the doubt when it comes to being able to cull together a moveset for characters where the direction may not be readily apparent, huh?

I'm taking Sakurai at face value that it was indeed timing, and not conceptual difficulties, that resulted in the omissions of Spring-Man and Rex. Ngl, none of those practical barriers seem insurmountable. As to Spring Man, I remember when people would question whether Simon's whip would present range-related imbalances. As to Rex, I think we've had enough dual characters that Sakurai comprehends how to successfully account for all moving parts.

And Akira would obviously come with some kind of gimmick what with the Legion, but I think it's shortchanging the guy who's made more with less to imply he'd be stumped to implement some cyber alien pet as part of a moveset, even with the importance of 3D space in Astral Chain.
 

3BitSaurus

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corrin turns into a dragon in half her moveset. jab, tilts, final smash, counter, bair, smahes, nair, dair. maybe more. dont debate in bad faith please.
I don't think it's bad faith. Corrin's "transformations" are for the most part just visual rather than an actual gameplay mechanic that affects their moveset. And the only time they fully transform is their down b and FS.

Honestly, that's my biggest gripe with the character. I wish they had went all the way and made Corrin an actual shapeshifting fighter rather than stopping midway through like they did.
 

blackghost

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And Akira would obviously come with some kind of gimmick what with the Legion, but I think it's shortchanging the guy who's made more with less to imply he'd be stumped to implement some cyber alien pet as part of a moveset, even with the importance of 3D space in Astral Chain.
its not that Sakurai couldn't figure it out there's also many other things to think about: gameplay engine, 8 player smash, the strain on the hardware, not causing frame drops, and more. astral chain in smash would be in some way a combination of Bayonetta, ice climbers, and Rosalina. out of many many possible characters this among the most complex characters to bring in. not to mention legion would also have a timer like Arsene and a health bar as it does in its origin game.

I don't think it's bad faith. Corrin's "transformations" are for the most part just visual rather than an actual gameplay mechanic that affects their moveset. And the only time they fully transform is their down b and FS.

Honestly, that's my biggest gripe with the character. I wish they had went all the way and made Corrin an actual shapeshifting fighter rather than stopping midway through like they did.
first question do you know fates lore? corrin doesnt fully transform to fight most of the time anyway so why would she do it in smash?

its not just visual corrin transforming has gameplay affected by it: fsmash has reach because of the transformation, upsmash and downsmash she transforms and the spikes hit harder than the sword does, she grows jaws from her hands that shoot energy and bite, her sweet spots are determined by spikes from transforming. corrin fully transforms for two throws. corrin gameplay is absolutely affected by transforming. the character even grows wings to recover on two sperate moves.

its arguing in bad faith or corrin has been gone from ultimate for so long people have forgotten what she does.
 
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D

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As much as I believe Hayabusa is in Vol 2. I don't trust anything from IamShifty's mouth, that guy shifted the goalpost so much since September that it's comical at this point.
To be honest, if he knew back then about the stuff he claimed ,wouldn't he have said it as well during the heat of the moment?
 

N3ON

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its not that Sakurai couldn't figure it out there's also many other things to think about: gameplay engine, 8 player smash, the strain on the hardware, not causing frame drops, and more. astral chain in smash would be in some way a combination of Bayonetta, ice climbers, and Rosalina. out of many many possible characters this among the most complex characters to bring in. not to mention legion would also have a timer like Arsene and a health bar as it does in its origin game.
If the game can run sixteen characters at once with the Ice Climbers, or eight Olimars/Alphs and twenty-four Pikmin simultaneously, a character who, in all likelihood, would be less technically taxing than Nana wouldn't present an insurmountable barrier.

The Legion follows the Arsene or Luma model closer than that of ICs, who are presumably the most taxing characters. Them or perhaps Pokemon Trainer.
 

3BitSaurus

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first question do you know fates lore? corrin doesnt fully transform to fight most of the time anyway so why would she do it in smash?

its not just visual corrin transforming has gmaeplay affected by it: fsmash has reach because of the transformation, she grows jaws from her hands that shoot energy and bite, her sweetspots are determined by spikes from transforming. corrin fully transforms for two throws. corrin gameplay is absolutely affected by transforming. the character even grows wings to recover on two sperate moves.

its arguing in bad faith orcorrin has been gone from ultimate for so long people have forgotten what she does.
I mean... Icies don't control together, the Star Fox crew and Falcon don't fight on foot (in their original games, at least) and so on, but here we are. Creative liberties can happen if it makes a character's gameplay more appealing. I just think the character would be actually interesting to me, is all.

Corrin's transformation affects hitboxes, okay. That's no more than, say, Lucas' PK-Love like hitboxes, for example. It's basically a glorified disjoint rather than an actual shapeshifting/transformation mechanic.

I... really don't get how wanting the character to display their dragon transformation more is arguing in bad faith.
 
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SNEKeater

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About Akira, I wouldn't be surprised if the Legion was simply a thing that you can't control. You control Akira and maybe for half his moveset a Legion will appear with him/her and support in the attack, like Arsene does with Joker.
That would be a 'easy' way to make the character. If that's not the way, Akira would probably have some type of meter, because in Astral Chain you can't fight with the legion all the time you want, so at certain point the legion would appear and you can control the beast in some way, but that sounds more complicated. At least for me lol
 
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Quick question do we usually get spirit events on Tuesdays or Wednesday, or is it like whenever they feel like it?
I don't really pay attention to if spirit events and special online tournies happen on the same week, but with Byleth being released last week, I'd say we're in for a Fire Emblem themed online tourney announcement this week.

Edit: but on the case of spirit events, there probably won't be 1 for this week but the week after if they and special online tournies don't happen at the same time.

Double Edit cause I didn't answer the question properly: yeah they usually announce spirit events around Tuesdays.
 
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Krankees

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plus 2b is in soulcalibur.
I don't think that's a good point because Sakurai could still add her regardless. If we went by that logic, Dante shouldn't make it in because he was in Marvel vs Capcom Infinite. Sure the game's mostly dead now but still. Just because one character made it in one game doesn't mean they can't join another.
 
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N3ON

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Ya blew it Terry, why'd you opt for Fighting EX Layer when you coulda held out for Smash?!

Everyone knows it's one guest appearance per character.
 

Dinoman96

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Yeah if Terry could guest cameo in Fighting EX Layer and also appear in Smash Bros. at the same time, I don't think that's a point against 2B.

I will say, I do think it'd be pretty funny if 2B ended up as a DLC fighter for two different Bandai Namco developed fighting games, ha.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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Other than 4th party characters, I can't think of anything I want less than Smash OCs.

It already pisses me off that they keep taking up boss slots that could have gone to iconic video game bosses.
This is also one of the thing that I like the least about subspace. You have this huge cast of franchise and most of the level you're just using different form of Primid. At least Smash run understand that and use a bunch of Nintendo enemies.
To me it's not so much that they exist, but more that, aside from Giga Bowser, Master Hand, and it's affiliates, they're not interesting. Galleom's just a generic, vaguely ape looking robot, Duon, while having an interesting design, was and incredibly random and boring fight (attack it until it decides to do something), Galeem and Dharkon did everything right with their final battle, but the characters themselves aren't compelling in any way, and Tabuu, while having a great fight, is incredibly generic in design.

If they are to add any more original boss characters they should try to make them more more visually interesting/story important like they did with the Ancient Minister (which I know was just R.O.B., but it's story arc is probably the reason why R.O.B. is as popular as it is).
 

CapitaineCrash

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I don't even know why the argument that a character can't be in Smash because said character is in another fighting game is still brought up. Not only this has been proven false many times (Mega man, Pac-man, Terry), but I think it actually helps more 2B than it hurts. It shows that Square like the character enough and are willing to put her in other game. Why would they stop with one game?
 

N3ON

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The first third-party that was ever in Smash was in a different party-platformer-fighter before they were in Smash.

Not all of these arguments will have rationality to them.
 
D

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The first third-party that was ever in Smash was in a different party-platformer-fighter before they were in Smash.

Not all of these arguments will have rationality to them.
Well, it's technically another "gatekeep x because y needs to be in first"
 

blackghost

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I mean... Icies don't control together, the Star Fox crew and Falcon don't fight on foot (in their original games, at least) and so on, but here we are. Creative liberties can happen if it makes a character's gameplay more appealing. I just think the character would be actually interesting to me, is all.

Corrin's transformation affects hitboxes, okay. That's no more than, say, Lucas' PK-Love like hitboxes, for example. It's basically a glorified disjoint rather than an actual shapeshifting/transformation mechanic.

I... really don't get how wanting the character to display their dragon transformation more is arguing in bad faith.
fighting movesets were obviously made for fox and falcon. sakurai has not taken "creative liberties" with any characters that have source games were they fight often and is a major part of thier games. skaurai clearly takes great pride in implementing characters in the most accurate way possible. if he cant find out a good way to put the character in, he wont. he doesnt half ass it. like some devs do.

as for the corrin argument, the character transforms often and those traits are clearly shown from aspects like bair pushing corrin forward, to corrin using spikes as weapons over her sword to multiple other attacks. Corrin transformations affect gameplay and he does display his dragon traits. having cprrin fully transform for smash is not how corrin behaves in fire emblem. he doesnt always use it for full transformations. doing it here in smash goes against Sakurai's design philosophy.
 

N3ON

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Well, it's technically another "gatekeep x because y needs to be in first"
Which is a little ironic because the character suggested instead of 2B was Dante. Who, despite people wanting to forget about it, was in PSASBR.

Even if it was the least best version of him.
 

CapitaineCrash

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Also the thing about "not having 2 action characters" is also pretty weak considering the first pass literally have 2 turn based jrpg characters. You could even say that it have technically 3 rpg character: 2 from jrpg and one from a tactical rpg.
 

3BitSaurus

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fighting movesets were obviously made for fox and falcon. sakurai has not taken "creative liberties" with any characters that have source games were they fight often and is a major part of thier games. skaurai clearly takes great pride in implementing characters in the most accurate way possible. if he cant find out a good way to put the character in, he wont. he doesnt half ass it. like some devs do.

as for the corrin argument, the character transforms often and those traits are clearly shown from aspects like bair pushing corrin forward, to corrin using spikes as weapons over her sword to multiple other attacks. Corrin transformations affect gameplay and he does display his dragon traits. having cprrin fully transform for smash is not how corrin behaves in fire emblem. he doesnt always use it for full transformations. doing it here in smash goes against Sakurai's design philosophy.
And yet a major point with nearly all of the RPG characters is that they don't play the same as in their original games. Monado Arts don't behave the same, Ness and Lucas borrow attacks from other party members, some of the Pokémon have moves they only learn in very specific conditions and so on.

My points were that I wish Corrin actually had more use for being a dragon, because as they are right now, it feels to me like "swordsman 90% of the time, shapeshift one limb to do an attack, then back to being a swordsman". And the fact I don't see how saying that is arguing in bad faith.

*Sigh*... Let's just agree to disagree, I guess. This convo isn't going anywhere and it's kinda off topic anyway. :joyful:
 
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