Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Knight Dude]

Also the thing about "not having 2 action characters" is also pretty weak considering the first pass literally have 2 turn based jrpg characters. You could even say that it have technically 3 rpg character: 2 from jrpg and one from a tactical rpg.

Yeah, and that's not even going into base roster with the amount of JRPGs and Platformer characters that are in it.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

astral chain is one of the few games that has a true implementation issue. do you make the legion an ice climber AI? which is close to the game but not quite. do you make him a puppeteer? it may make the character higher on the tier list but its not proper representation of the game series. astral chain is a beautiful combat game with truly unique mechanics and ideas. but that same fact may keep it out of smash. for now at least.

to be fair inklings ink mechanics also kept it out of 4 because there was nothing in the engine for the inkling to ink opponents which id arguw is critical to the character being represented correctly.

maybe the Legion would’ve been a combination of Arsene, Luma, and Popo (real ones play Nana)

 

[DarthEnderX]

To me it's not so much that they exist, but more that, aside from Giga Bowser, Master Hand, and it's affiliates, they're not interesting. Galleom's just a generic, vaguely ape looking robot, Duon, while having an interesting design, was and incredibly random and boring fight (attack it until it decides to do something), Galeem and Dharkon did everything right with their final battle, but the characters themselves aren't compelling in any way, and Tabuu, while having a great fight, is incredibly generic in design.

I don't consider Giga Bowser to be a Smash OC. I know that specific design is unique to Smash, but it's still just a giant Bowser, which is hardly a Smash original.

Anyway, if it were up to me, I'd replace Galleom, Galeem and Dharkon with Wily Machine, Safer Sephiroth and Giygas.

 

[Ridrool64]

Good news, guys! No deaths: today is a tourney event announcement.

https://twitter.com/SmashBrosJP/status/1224860189331009536

On another note, you know who I think is a lock for a Mii Costume? Freddy Fazbear. Legit, if Sans and Cuphead could get one, I think Freddy legitimately deserves one too. I dunno if it'd have music because I can't think of anything that isn't royalty free, but Freddy is a very strong contender for one due to his game basically being the start of the indie boom.

 

[Icedragonadam]

Good news, guys! No deaths: today is a tourney event announcement.

https://twitter.com/SmashBrosJP/status/1224860189331009536

On another note, you know who I think is a lock for a Mii Costume? Freddy Fazbear. Legit, if Sans and Cuphead could get one, I think Freddy legitimately deserves one too. I dunno if it'd have music because I can't think of anything that isn't royalty free, but Freddy is a very strong contender for one due to his game basically being the start of the indie boom.

Surprisingly, it's not a Super Fire Emblem Bros tournament.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Freddy

start of the indie boom

I'm sorry, what?

Shovel Knight and, if you want to go further back, Cave Story are the games I'd attribute the current indie boom to. Hell, if we're talking horror, I'd say Amnesia is the one that made indie horror blow up.

The only boom that FNaF is responsible for is the rise of cheap YouTube-bait jump-scare-based horror games.

 

[Deleted member]

Good news, guys! No deaths: today is a tourney event announcement.

https://twitter.com/SmashBrosJP/status/1224860189331009536

Judging from the image alone, I'm surprised it wasn't actually a Fire Emblem themed tourney.

Google translate can be off at times, but it seems this tourney will be focused on characters that use axes, spears, and bows.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Judging from the image alone, I'm surprised it wasn't actually a Fire Emblem themed tourney.

Google translate can be off at times, but it seems this tourney will be focused on characters that use axes, spears, and bows.

My Japanese ain't great, but I can read Byleth's name there, paired with the image, leads me to think it's a Byleth/Three Houses themed tournament. So, technically it is Fire Emblem themed.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Good news, guys! No deaths: today is a tourney event announcement.

https://twitter.com/SmashBrosJP/status/1224860189331009536

On another note, you know who I think is a lock for a Mii Costume? Freddy Fazbear. Legit, if Sans and Cuphead could get one, I think Freddy legitimately deserves one too. I dunno if it'd have music because I can't think of anything that isn't royalty free, but Freddy is a very strong contender for one due to his game basically being the start of the indie boom.

i just cant stop laughing at being Edelgard

something something memes something something spoilers

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Shovel Knight and, if you want to go further back, Cave Story are the games I'd attribute the current indie boom to. Hell, if we're talking horror, I'd say Amnesia is the one that made indie horror blow up.

The only boom that FNaF is responsible for is the rise of cheap YouTube-bait jump-scare-based horror games.

While I disagree with the notion that the FNaF games are bad, it's certainly more than a product of the indie boom than a cause. Heck, I'd wager Minecraft did more for the indie scene than FNaF and it's not even an indie game anymore.

On another note, you know who I think is a lock for a Mii Costume? Freddy Fazbear. Legit, if Sans and Cuphead could get one, I think Freddy legitimately deserves one too. I dunno if it'd have music because I can't think of anything that isn't royalty free

I think FNaF World and Freddy Fazbear's Pizzarea Simulator are the only games that have original compositions, though a song from the game people didn't like and a song from a minigame from an ambiguously mainline title are still weird picks. I mean, unless you want the screeching from FNaF 2...

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I think it'd help certain arguments being made if they weren't half-baked or at least past a surface-level analysis.

Like sure, both 2B and Dante are action characters. Joker and Hero are JRPG protags. However, that's not even the point. Dragon Quest XIS and Persona 5 are fundamentally different games that bring something entirely new in each respective pass, despite sharing the same genre. Likewise, NieR Automata and Devil May Cry are hardly that much alike. The universes are entirely different. After all, it's not like 2B even has the same personality as Dante.

Do I think they'd do a pass of all action characters? Not at all, because it completely alienates people who wouldn't play them. It's the same reason that I don't think they'd do a pass of all one company. I think the fact that Joker and Hero went back to back pretty much throws any "same genre after one another" into the trash.

2B and Dante for Smash! They'd both be great!

 

[cosmicB]

Vergeben hasn't predicted anything correct since the base game. I'm not believing anything he says until he gives us a name like he used to.

He technically did with Byleth. Nintendo was NOT one of the companies on the deconfirm list. Sabi on the other hand was wrong due to saying the character WAS from a company on the deconfirm list.

I will say, I do think it'd be pretty funny if 2B ended up as a DLC fighter for two different Bandai Namco developed fighting games, ha.

I almost wonder if that would lighten the load on the team a bit. Obviously Soul Calibur and Smash play VERY differently and 2B probably wouldn't have the same design, but there's probably SOME assets they could use there even if they'd have to alter them.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

After all, it's not like 2B even has the same personality as Dante.

Can confirm.

Source: 2B gets mad when you look up her skirt. Dante does not.

 

[N3ON]

Personality doesn't matter anyway; half the characters on the roster don't have one.

 

[Opossum]

View attachment 261079

I'm sorry, what?

Shovel Knight and, if you want to go further back, Cave Story are the games I'd attribute the current indie boom to. Hell, if we're talking horror, I'd say Amnesia is the one that made indie horror blow up.

The only boom that FNaF is responsible for is the rise of cheap YouTube-bait jump-scare-based horror games.

Actually, the latter boom can be attributed to Amnesia as well. It's literally the game that made folks like Markiplier and Jacksepticeye blow up.

Not to knock FNAF, mind you, since it's got a lot of other merits for its impact, but it was far from the first viral game.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Dante is like, the video game definition of Personality. Dude's just oozing cool.

 

[Deleted member]

Good news, guys! No deaths: today is a tourney event announcement.

https://twitter.com/SmashBrosJP/status/1224860189331009536

Tourneys: I sleep, because I cannot afford an online subscription.

Spirit events: REAL ****

 

[DarthEnderX]

I'm sorry, what?

Shovel Knight and, if you want to go further back, Cave Story are the games I'd attribute the current indie boom to. Hell, if we're talking horror, I'd say Amnesia is the one that made indie horror blow up.

The only boom that FNaF is responsible for is the rise of cheap YouTube-bait jump-scare-based horror games.

Yeah, even if you wanted to be like "What's the Fortnight of indie games" that thing that all the dumb kids got into, that was Minecraft, not FNAF.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

View attachment 261079

Shovel Knight and, if you want to go further back, Cave Story are the games I'd attribute the current indie boom to. Hell, if we're talking horror, I'd say Amnesia is the one that made indie horror blow up.

I'm actually surprised that Cave Story hasn't been represented in any form in Ultimate yet, for a long time it was the face of Nintendo's eShop and its indies.
Is Nicalis really that hard to work with compared to Konami or Square Enix?

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I'm actually surprised that Cave Story hasn't been represented in any form in Ultimate yet, for a long time it was the face of Nintendo's eShop and its indies.
Is Nicalis really that hard to work with compared to Konami or Square Enix?

Given the reputation of Nicalis’s CEO I’d say yes

 

[Kokiden]

2B and Dante for Smash! They'd both be great!

They are the only 2 characters that I want now (Vergil too but he's not getting in since Dante is the flagship boi for DMC.)

It would be quite something if they both get in. I mean, what are the chances right when there are so many contenders out there?

 

[wynn728]

Well, we know what date we're not getting a character reveal

1st game at EVO 2020: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate pic.twitter.com/KU08PCugOx

— Wario64 (@Wario64) February 5, 2020

 

[KillerCage]

Good news, guys! No deaths: today is a tourney event announcement.

https://twitter.com/SmashBrosJP/status/1224860189331009536

On another note, you know who I think is a lock for a Mii Costume? Freddy Fazbear. Legit, if Sans and Cuphead could get one, I think Freddy legitimately deserves one too. I dunno if it'd have music because I can't think of anything that isn't royalty free, but Freddy is a very strong contender for one due to his game basically being the start of the indie boom.

Not a fan of Freddy.

Spoiler: I prefer this guy getting a Mii Costume

Credit for this fanart goes to DanSyron on DeviantArt.

 

[wynn728]

Good news, guys! No deaths: today is a tourney event announcement.

https://twitter.com/SmashBrosJP/status/1224860189331009536

On another note, you know who I think is a lock for a Mii Costume? Freddy Fazbear. Legit, if Sans and Cuphead could get one, I think Freddy legitimately deserves one too. I dunno if it'd have music because I can't think of anything that isn't royalty free, but Freddy is a very strong contender for one due to his game basically being the start of the indie boom.

Personally I would hope that Springtrap is the Mii Costume, but yeah it seems like a FNAF Mii Costume is likely. Pretty fitting considering it's a game about people getting shoved into suits.

Apparently FNAF is also popular in Japan, so there's a big shot of that happening.

 

[PSIGuy]

The Byleth Taught tourney has awakened me to the reality that we have too many bows in Smash. Link, Young Link, Toon Link, Pit, Dark Pit, Jigglypuff’s 6th alt, Mario’s wedding outfit...

 

[Goombaic]

Spoiler: I prefer this guy getting a Mii Costume

View attachment 261092
Credit for this fanart goes to DanSyron on DeviantArt.

I am not down for a Hollow Knight Mii costume at all. The Knight would not look good with Mii proportions. The Miis would have to have bodies proportioned like Ness to not look disturbingly lanky. If it was just a hat/helmet it would be fine, but please, don't bring a body with it.

While we're on that topic, a character I think would look neat and has a good shot of making it as a Mii Costume is Monokuma. He'd work as a full gunner costume and would bring a remix of Danganronpa's main theme. Phoenix Wright better bring some nice visual novel Miis like Monokuma if he's the Capcom rep we end up getting.

Spoiler: It'd be funny if the costume looked like the suits here.

 

[DevaAshera]

Yeah, and that's not even going into base roster with the amount of JRPGs and Platformer characters that are in it.

Hmm..I'll take the challenge.
Platformer: 27
RPG/SRPG: 24
Action/Adventure: 8
Shooter/Shoot-Em-Up: 8
Fighter: 4
Other: 17
Note, this is counting the characters origin game, so Wario is counted as a Platformer character due to Super Mario Land 2 and Wario Land despite his default being WarioWare. I'm also counting Metroid & Castlevania as platformers since that's their basic gameplay rather than the sub-genre of Metroidvania. Also counting Metal Gear as a shooter. Also counting Pokémon Trainer as three characters since the game does. I'm also counting Punch Out!! as a fighting game.
This is also counting DLC characters..so discount them and you get..
Platformer: 25
RPG/SRPG: 21
Action/Adventure: 8
Shooter/Shoot-Em-Up: 8
Fighter: 3
Other: 17

 

[Krankees]

I think this would be a neat deluxe Mii costume idea.

Spoiler: Candyman

Leathal League getting representation would be cool plus getting Ain't Nothing Like A Funky Beat in smash would be godlike. Raptor being added as a character instead would also be cool.

 

[Knight Dude]

Hmm..I'll take the challenge.
Platformer: 27
RPG/SRPG: 24
Action/Adventure: 8
Shooter/Shoot-Em-Up: 8
Fighter: 4
Other: 17
Note, this is counting the characters origin game, so Wario is counted as a Platformer character due to Super Mario Land 2 and Wario Land despite his default being WarioWare. I'm also counting Metroid & Castlevania as platformers since that's their basic gameplay rather than the sub-genre of Metroidvania. Also counting Metal Gear as a shooter. Also counting Pokémon Trainer as three characters since the game does.

There's a lot of RPG and Platformer stuff. And I don't really mind since it's more so on a character by character basis for me usually.

I just think it's a really stupid argument people use to say we shouldn't have more fighting game franchises(this is the example I hear the most often) in because...oh no, there's a grand total of 3 of them, and kind of sort of Little Mac. Same goes for saying 2B and Dante would be redundant even though Joker and Hero were back to back.

Meanwhile, some of these same people will also ask for Crash or Lloyd. Nothing wrong with these characters at all, but they come from genres with plenty of fighters, so if it's fine for them, it should be fine for anybody. Just say the characters you want are pretty sick.

Which is why Mega Man X would be a great addition to the game, even if he only has a Snowball's chance in Hell of getting the Chrom treatment.

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

I think this would be a neat deluxe Mii costume idea.

Spoiler

View attachment 261095
Leathal League getting representation would be cool plus getting Ain't Nothing Like A Funky Beat in smash would be godlike. Raptor being added as a character instead would also be cool.

Lethal League is awesome and I’ll take any excuse to get more Hideki Naganuma’s music in smash.

Also give me a Beat costume from Jet Set Radio and Concept of Love

 

[DevaAshera]

There's a lot of RPG and Platformer stuff. And I don't really mind since it's more so on a character by character basis for me usually.

I just think it's a really stupid argument people use to say we shouldn't have more fighting game franchises(this is the example I hear the most often) in because...oh no, there's a grand total of 3 of them, and kind of sort of Little Mac. Same goes for saying 2B and Dante would be redundant even though Joker and Hero were back to back.

Meanwhile, some of these same people will also ask for Crash or Lloyd. Nothing wrong with these characters at all, but they come from genres with plenty of fighters, so if it's fine for them, it should be fine for anybody. Just say the characters you want are pretty sick.

Which is why Mega Man X would be a great addition to the game, even if he only has a Snowball's chance in Hell of getting the Chrom treatment.

Yeah, it probably owes a lot to Nintendo's claim to fame primarily being its Platformer series and then both Pokémon and Fire Emblem being RPG series..not to mention those two genres are amongst the most common honestly.

For me, if a character is good, I'm fine, even if its a character I don't like or a character from an 'over-represented' series.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Apparently FNAF is also popular in Japan, so there's a big shot of that happening.

Interesting...Was it localized in any way or does its Japanese audience just also speak English/did they make fan translations?

Well, we know what date we're not getting a character reveal

Watch us get a reveal then because people are no longer expecting a reveal at each event. lol

Though considering previous statements it makes sense for there not to be one.

Which is why Mega Man X would be a great addition to the game, even if he only has a Snowball's chance in Hell of getting the Chrom treatment.

No way would he be an echo fighter. He doesn't share proportions with anyone on the roster let alone someone with his skillset.

EDIT: The character's probably less likely than Zero, though a more mid-range/aggressive take on Mega Man would be interesting.

For me, if a character is good, I'm fine, even if its a character I don't like or a character from an 'over-represented' series.

Define "good" here? Fun to play or viability? Just curious.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Datamining leaked Hero prior to Vergeben calling it out right. Shinobi leaked BK on Resetera. Terry was an obvious choice off the back.

Wasn't it the other way around? I remember Verge's list of 7 Square characters being around before the datamine, with Luminary and Erdrick both being on that list

 

[Krankees]

Watch us get a reveal then because people are no longer expecting a reveal at each event. lol

Though considering previous statements it makes sense for there not to be one.

Who knows? Maybe they could reveal a direct for after EVO. It's not likely but it's happened before.

 

[DevaAshera]

Speaking of Genre Representation, lets take a look at what Genres are, and aren't, represented in Smash.
Platformers

RPGs/Strategy

Action/Adventure

Fighters/Beat-Em-Ups

Shooter/Shoot-Em-Ups

Rhythm
Simulation
(?)
Sports/Racing

Puzzle

Self-Help/Health

Visual Novel

I may have forgotten a few base genres..but I think only Rhythm & Visual Novel are missing representation from that angle, so Rhythm Heaven could work for the former and either Fate/stay night or Ace Attorney could work for the latter (I'm biased, but I think Fate/stay night's Saber may be easier to make a Smash Bros. moveset for than Phoenix Wright..but this is Sakurai, so anyone could get a moveset)

 

[Knight Dude]

No way would he be an echo fighter. He doesn't share proportions with anyone on the roster let alone someone with his skillset.

EDIT: The character's probably less likely than Zero, though a more mid-range/aggressive take on Mega Man would be interesting.

I meant more in the sense that he'd be a Final Smash cameo that was made playable. Not an Echo. I've beaten most Classic and Mega Man X games. I'm VERY well aware Mega Man and Mega Man X would play differently.

IF we're only going with Echoes, that'd be a better fit for Protoman and Bass.

So again, just as a character who was in a Final Smash being made playable on their own. Though I know the chances are very low.

 

[DevaAshera]

Define "good" here? Fun to play or viability? Just curious.

Depends entirely on who the character is and what they have to offer..for example.
Zelda, Lucina & Byleth I love for both the character and their movesets.
Wario, Corrin, & Banjo-Kazooie I love for the characters themselves but I don't find their movesets fun, for me, to play with.
Bowser Jr. has a fun moveset, but I hate the character (Koopalings are fine though).
I don't care about viability since, well, I am not, nor will I ever be, part of the competitive scene.

 

[Yeast9267]

Not a fan of Freddy.

Spoiler: I prefer this guy getting a Mii Costume

View attachment 261092
Credit for this fanart goes to DanSyron on DeviantArt.

Honestly true. I'd prefer the knight to be in smash and it would probably be a lot easier for nintendo to model his character.

 

[Knight Dude]

Depends entirely on who the character is and what they have to offer..for example.
Zelda, Lucina & Byleth I love for both the character and their movesets.
Wario, Corrin, & Banjo-Kazooie I love for the characters themselves but I don't find their movesets fun, for me, to play with.
Bowser Jr. has a fun moveset, but I hate the character (Koopalings are fine though).
I don't care about viability since, well, I am not, nor will I ever be, part of the competitive scene.

Now that I think of it, I can't say I like any of the Koopalings or Jr. But I like the moveset to use them every once in a blue moon. I guess Iggy and Roy are alright.

 

[PLATINUM7]

Speaking of Genre Representation, lets take a look at what Genres are, and aren't, represented in Smash.
Platformers

RPGs/Strategy

Action/Adventure

Fighters/Beat-Em-Ups

Shooter/Shoot-Em-Ups

Rhythm
Simulation
(?)
Sports/Racing

Puzzle

Self-Help/Health

Visual Novel

I may have forgotten a few base genres..but I think only Rhythm & Visual Novel are missing representation from that angle, so Rhythm Heaven could work for the former and either Fate/stay night or Ace Attorney could work for the latter (I'm biased, but I think Fate/stay night's Saber may be easier to make a Smash Bros. moveset for than Phoenix Wright..but this is Sakurai, so anyone could get a moveset)

Pikmin's genre would be real time strategy (or just strategy here).

Also don't really agree with Metal Gear being in shooter. It's more stealth action/adventure. Shooting in Metal Gear is at times either secondary to everything or something you're actively punished for doing outside of using non-lethal weapons.

I can see why you'd put Metroidvanias in platformers but they also tend to get categorised as action/adventure also. Though I guess it doesn't really matter.