Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Cutie Gwen]

I'm not sure how that means anything. I don't see how prior content being added "deconfirms" a character.

Remember Sakurai's comment on new worlds? That statement is vague so while it can't really be used as an argument by itself, it IS noticable that the only character from a franchise already in Smash is from a game that had no form of representation prior, no music, no spirits, nada. While characters are indeed the main appeal, everything in the game is still content and Spirits do indeed have care put into them, it's the same reason I don't believe spirits will get promoted, the representation is already there, there was already care and thought put into the game and adding a SwoShi character wouldn't increase the crossover appeal.

If only I had noticed that sooner. Thank you for pointing that out.

Obviously I'm aware. I interpret Spirits differently than you, and while it's certainly possible we get no Spirit upgrades, I don't see the point in acting like it's impossible. Neither of us know what's in the pass, and neither of us will be proven right or wrong until Fighter #11.

No need to act cocky and sarcastic.

Just saying, it's significantly better to be pessimistic about this than trying to pull conspiracy theories of Sakurai deliberately throwing people off track and that everyone else is too dumb to realize this. If I'm wrong, at worst, I'd be surprised, if you're wrong, you'll have made a fool of yourself

 

[RoboFist]

So yeah, cool, Byleth is crazy and has a stupid

Does anyone remember the sheer stupidity of everyone saying Banjo Kazooie would be an echo of duck hunt and that duck hunt should get a game made by Sakurai just like banjo kazooie. Good times hahah

Hey man, if Sakurai made a platformer starring a literal dog with a duck friend on his back traversing a cartoonish version of the northern US during hunting season, dodging crazed gunmen and collecting the duck's eggs and ultimately defeating a giant Elmer Fudd-looking idiot on the top of a haunted castle...you better believe I'd Day 1 that sh*t.

In all seriousness, I always did wonder why none of the other "retro characters" in Smash got any new titles after KI:Uprising proved it could be done. Why not make a New Super Mario Bros-style side-scrolling Ice Climbers game, but vertical instead of horizontal? Or some kind of Labo version of ROB? Honestly, after Piranha Plant, I'd love to see a game where you play as common Mario enemies (I guess that's Odyssey, isn't it...?)

These characters are all super fun to play as, give them more non-Smash stuff to do haha.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

So yeah, cool, Byleth is crazy and has a stupid


Hey man, if Sakurai made a platformer starring a literal dog with a duck friend on his back traversing a cartoonish version of the northern US during hunting season, dodging crazed gunmen and collecting the duck's eggs and ultimately defeating a giant Elmer Fudd-looking idiot on the top of a haunted castle...you better believe I'd Day 1 that sh*t.

In all seriousness, I always did wonder why none of the other "retro characters" in Smash got any new titles after KI:Uprising proved it could be done. Why not make a New Super Mario Bros-style side-scrolling Ice Climbers game, but vertical instead of horizontal? Or some kind of Labo version of ROB? Honestly, after Piranha Plant, I'd love to see a game where you play as common Mario enemies (I guess that's Odyssey, isn't it...?)

These characters are all super fun to play as, give them more non-Smash stuff to do haha.

Because Nintendo likes using Smash to promote things but forgets that Smash promotion works both ways by making the content more wellknown, which can and has made people go "Hey, it's that dude from Smash! I like them, so I'll buy this!"

 

[Extremmefan]

These characters are all super fun to play as, give them more non-Smash stuff to do haha.

gib Daisy gaem

that's all I'll ask for when it comes to Mario. Idec if it's a one-off like Super Princess Peach, I just need a Daisy game that's not "Mario but sports/karting/partying".

 

[Cutie Gwen]

gib Daisy gaem

that's all I'll ask for when it comes to Mario. Idec if it's a one-off like Super Princess Peach, I just need a Daisy game that's not "Mario but sports/karting/partying".

It's a game of Daisy spreading trans rights awareness while she decapitates people who lusts for minors, THAT Daisy fan will suddenly no longer be interested in Daisy

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

In all seriousness, I always did wonder why none of the other "retro characters" in Smash got any new titles after KI:Uprising proved it could be done. Why not make a New Super Mario Bros-style side-scrolling Ice Climbers game, but vertical instead of horizontal? Or some kind of Labo version of ROB? Honestly, after Piranha Plant, I'd love to see a game where you play as common Mario enemies (I guess that's Odyssey, isn't it...?)

These characters are all super fun to play as, give them more non-Smash stuff to do haha.

Sakurai wanted to make Uprising and revive Kid Icarus.

...It's a matter of someone wanting to revive the franchises. That's pretty much it. Nobody else did.

 

[Cosmic77]

Yes, we don't know anything about season 2. But that's exactly the issue: we don't know if Byleth truly opened the door to all first parties or just the first parties that don't have content in Ultimate - namely future titles that Nintendo would want to reserve a spot on season 2 for.

Maybe my viewpoint is too pessimistic, but I think the latter definitely has more chances than the former.

Waiting is the only way we'll get our answer. Right now, everyone has to draw conclusions from what little information we have. Again, a majority of the characters in the first pass were third-parties who wouldn't have gotten Spirits anyway. Byleth is the closest we've gotten to an answer, but one character isn't a pattern.

Just saying, it's significantly better to be pessimistic about this than trying to pull conspiracy theories of Sakurai deliberately throwing people off track and that everyone else is too dumb to realize this. If I'm wrong, at worst, I'd be surprised, if you're wrong, you'll have made a fool of yourself

You really can't shake that mental image of yours that I'm some Nintendrone fanboy who can't be wrong, can you?

If I'm wrong, that's fine. I've been wrong several times before, and I'll eat my words if no Spirit gets upgraded. That being said, don't you think you're in the same position? The more you dismiss Spirit upgrades and post these sarcastic, passive-aggressive comments stating that it will never happen, the harder it'll hit you in the face.

I'd recommend you be pessimistic as well. Seeing how there aren't many first-parties you genuinely wanted outside a 3H rep, I don't consider it particularly hard for you to think Spirits are a done deal.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

So yeah, cool, Byleth is crazy and has a stupid

... has a stupid what? You can't leave us hanging like this! You're giving me major anxiety from the anticipation of what it could be! YOU CAN TAKE AS MUCH TIME AS YOU WANT! JUST TELL ME WHAT IT IS!

Besides that...

In all seriousness, I always did wonder why none of the other "retro characters" in Smash got any new titles after KI:Uprising proved it could be done. Why not make a New Super Mario Bros-style side-scrolling Ice Climbers game, but vertical instead of horizontal? Or some kind of Labo version of ROB? Honestly, after Piranha Plant, I'd love to see a game where you play as common Mario enemies (I guess that's Odyssey, isn't it...?)

These characters are all super fun to play as, give them more non-Smash stuff to do haha.

It's most likely because it's easier to keep track of fewer franchises than to juggle all of their owned series at once. I would like to see a remaster of Ice Climbers and Duck Hunt or maybe have them integrate the Ice Climbers into the Kirby series.

 

[Llort A. Ton]

Id be super down for some series revivals but Nintendo can hardly mantain some of their "current" series. With how long its been since a main DKC, Pikmin, Kid Icarus, etc, its hard to see retro characters escape the shadow realm. Great ideas tho.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Honestly, even if nearly all of my most wanted picks are third party, I'd be down for an all (or mostly) first-party DLC if it got us some unorthodox choices that don't depend on current relevance. I feel like Smash 4 and Ultimate have for the most part played it really safe with first parties compared to Melee and Brawl.

 

[snowgolem]

If a series was gonna be revived it could only be one of two

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

[KillerCage]

during the next Mii Costumes segment, Light of Nibel starts playing as you see this, wyd??
View attachment 260434

Spoiler

yeah sorry GIMP put the glow around the edges too and i couldn't get rid of that

Spoiler: My Reaction

I would die a happy man even if Ori just got into Smash as a Mii Costume.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Sakurai wanted to make Uprising and revive Kid Icarus.

...It's a matter of someone wanting to revive the franchises. That's pretty much it. Nobody else did.

Wasn't it planned as a Star Fox game at first?

Waiting is the only way we'll get our answer. Right now, everyone has to draw conclusions from what little information we have. Again, a majority of the characters in the first pass were third-parties who wouldn't have gotten Spirits anyway. Byleth is the closest we've gotten to an answer, but one character isn't a pattern.



You really can't shake that mental image of yours that I'm some Nintendrone fanboy who can't be wrong, can you?

If I'm wrong, that's fine. I've been wrong several times before, and I'll eat my words if no Spirit gets upgraded. That being said, don't you think you're in the same position? The more you dismiss Spirit upgrades and post these sarcastic, passive-aggressive comments stating that it will never happen, the harder it'll hit you in the face.

I'd recommend you be pessimistic as well. Seeing how there aren't many first-parties you genuinely wanted outside a 3H rep, I don't consider it particularly hard for you to think Spirits are a done deal.

Well considering stuff we've discussed in the past, you haven't done a good job of convincing me otherwise.

Again, I'd be shocked. Though I'd be pleasantly surprised. That's the worst possible reaction I'd have* seeing as I'm rather vocal on adoring a character who's indeed a Spirit who comes with 2 music tracks in the base game. The hard hit would be a high five at worst* for me. There's tons of characters who are spirits I'd love to see but I don't want false hope


First of all, I am indeed being pessimistic as again, I'd like it but doubt it. You're being optimistic and already made conspiracy theories so how is that pessimistic? Also, not many third parties I'd like? Hmmm, that doesn't sound like Nabbit, Vivian, Ghirahim, Skull Kid, Hilda, Ganon, Bandana Dee, Susie, Galacta Knight, Daroach, Edelgard, Claude, Celica, Lyn, Hector, Lyon, Black Knight, Sheeda, Fiora, Melia, Elma, Reyn, Riki, Dunban, Kumatora, Hades, Viridi, an obscene amount of Pokemon, Wonder Red, etc. Clearly I must loathe the idea of Nintendo characters now that we got Byleth


* Except Rex lmao **** him

 

[Faso115]

Then as punishment of all the pessimism, XC2 will fill the entire FP2.

 

[CureParfait]

interesting off the wall topic:

Joker's the first character to have a unique victory screen transition, even when you beat a Spirit on the Spirit Board. Think any other characters might have a unique transition that serves as an homage to their source material and if so which?

Ragna the Bloodedge, if he wins with a Final Smash "Astral Finish" will show up on the screen.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

What Smash needs is more DLC


... View attachment 260423

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Wasn't it planned as a Star Fox game at first?

Yep, I remember that. Though just cause I remember it doesn't mean it was true.

...My memory's not the best. >.>;

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Then as punishment of all the pessimism, XC2 will fill the entire FP2.

So basically, I get to save 25 bucks? Hell yeah!

 

[Evil Trapezium]

I noticed that Byleth is not fat, that means weight theory is dead! They are lighter than Hero at a value of 97.

RIP Weight Theory

December 14th-ish 2019 - January 28th 2020

 

[Kokiden]

There was a recent article about how Nintendo's CEO wants people to continue playing games for longer, so there's going to be more emphasis on "initiatives" or DLC.

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20...used_on_initiatives_to_keep_consumers_playing

By the end of the second season pass, Ultimate would have been out for 3 years. I would not be surprised if they announce another one to bump it up to 4-5 years of players sticking with the game so they can purchase all the characters and get the complete roster.

 

[Lamperouge]

Then as punishment of all the pessimism, XC2 will fill the entire FP2.

Awesome.

I can't wait to ****ing body everyone as Turters.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Awesome.

I can't wait to ****ing body everyone as Turters.

Real talk though, Turturs should get in as the sole XB2 character. His final smash will be the screen flashing saying 'OBEY TURTURS' for 30 seconds straight

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I do find it odd that Sakurai went looking for a Nintendo series to best fit his vision and then thought Star Fox and Kid Icarus because, y'know, Sin & Punishment is right ****ing there and is the closest thing to Uprising.

 

[Renmazuo]

So basically, I get to save 25 bucks? Hell yeah!

Spoiler

*The pass is actually 30 bucks.

 

[Mamboo07]

Why are we even still talking about the Akuma leak? It straight up looks like a Smash 4 mod, it goes against Akuma's signature characteristics, and it's 4Chan where leaks are fake 99% of the time.

btw can I get a Fighters Pass 2 template?

Sure, here's one for you:

Spoiler: The template:

It's transparent, so here is it.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Spoiler

*The pass is actually 30 bucks.

Sweet, even better! I can use that to money for a good Xenoblade game that comes out this year

 

[Ben Holt]

I'm Patrick.

 

[P.Kat]

Sakurai wanted to make Uprising and revive Kid Icarus.

...It's a matter of someone wanting to revive the franchises. That's pretty much it. Nobody else did.

Me waiting for a Kid Icarus Uprising HD for Switch, as well as a new Star Fox game WITH KRYSTAL, similar to Starlink's atmospheric entry, and exiting but you can ACTUALLY get out of your ship and explore the different worlds, on foot/small hover vehicle (btw how well did Starlink sell anyway didn't they had an expansion pack then we never heard from them again?)

Spoiler

Wasn't it planned as a Star Fox game at first?

Well considering stuff we've discussed in the past, you haven't done a good job of convincing me otherwise.

Again, I'd be shocked. Though I'd be pleasantly surprised. That's the worst possible reaction I'd have* seeing as I'm rather vocal on adoring a character who's indeed a Spirit who comes with 2 music tracks in the base game. The hard hit would be a high five at worst* for me. There's tons of characters who are spirits I'd love to see but I don't want false hope


First of all, I am indeed being pessimistic as again, I'd like it but doubt it. You're being optimistic and already made conspiracy theories so how is that pessimistic? Also, not many third parties I'd like? Hmmm, that doesn't sound like Nabbit, Vivian, Ghirahim, Skull Kid, Hilda, Ganon, Bandana Dee, Susie, Galacta Knight, Daroach, Edelgard, Claude, Celica, Lyn, Hector, Lyon, Black Knight, Sheeda, Fiora, Melia, Elma, Reyn, Riki, Dunban, Kumatora, Hades, Viridi, an obscene amount of Pokemon, Wonder Red, etc. Clearly I must loathe the idea of Nintendo characters now that we got Byleth

those are some good choices for first par-

* Except Rex lmao **** him

*Don't forget me intensifies*

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Me waiting for a Kid Icarus Uprising HD for Switch, as well as a new Star Fox game WITH KRYSTAL, similar to Starlink's atmospheric entry, and exiting but you can ACTUALLY get out of your ship and explore the different worlds, on foot/small hover vehicle (btw how well did Starlink sell anyway didn't they had an expansion pack then we never heard from them again?)

Spoiler

View attachment 260465

those are some good choices for first par-

*Don't forget me intensifies*

Star Link can be bought for 5 bucks with the Arwing stuff so I think it's safe to say it flopped

Memorable Soldier would be better than Rex tho

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Sure, here's one for you:

Spoiler: The template:

View attachment 260463
It's transparent, so here is it.

Nice, thank you.

...Now I need to think of 5 more characters I really really want.

 

[cosmicB]

Assuming the next event will be a FE Online Tourney... that would make the next Spirit event happen around two weeks from now, right? Considering the extended amount of time in character development, the Spirit events will probably be what shifts speculation around the most.

I still think the Kunio Spirits point to an Arcsys rep. It's just a really odd choice compared to the other third party Spirits:

- Tecmo has Fatal Frame, but if I'm not mistaken, the Spirits are from two games that were co-developed with Nintendo.
- Marvelous is in a similar situation with Daemon X Machina.
- The Tetris Company doesn't have anything besides... well, Tetris. So it's not like they could get anything else in Ultimate besides that.
- Capcom got RE, but they already had two series with playable characters before.

Meanwhile, all Arcsys gets is a bunch of Kunio Spirits? I get it: River City is influential in Beat-'em-ups, which later inspired the fighting game genre itself, and it had a lot of its history in Nintendo consoles. But it didn't even belong to Arcsys originally. It's like if Sega's only content in Smash was some Puyo Puyo or Persona Spirits or Bethesda only had some Doom Spirits.

"But then why wouldn't Kunio content come with the Arcsys rep?" Well, because it's an aquired property. We didn't get Persona content with Sonic back in Brawl. Terry got Spirits from other series, but they all belonged to SNK.

To add to this, the Tetris spirits are effectively Tetris 99 and not Tetris proper, which is published by Nintendo.

The Kunio spirits represent the only event in the game from a company that is not already represented in any shape or form. For now, it's a strange outlier, though it's certainly not the only example of Nintendo going to a non-indie company without getting a full fighter in (Ubisoft being the other big example). I feel like either an Arcsys character is coming or we're going to get some mii costumes out of it. Just going to them for a spirit event would be pretty weird and there'd be little financial incentive to do it.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

To add to this, the Tetris spirits are effectively Tetris 99 and not Tetris proper, which is published by Nintendo.

The Kunio spirits represent the only event in the game from a company that is not already represented in any shape or form. For now, it's a strange outlier, though it's certainly not the only example of Nintendo going to a non-indie company without getting a full fighter in (Ubisoft being the other big example). I feel like either an Arcsys character is coming or we're going to get some mii costumes out of it. Just going to them for a spirit event would be pretty weird and there'd be little financial incentive to do it.

Some of it is probably more on Sakurai, who wants it to be the biggest gaming crossover in the world. That means more universes added in some way. Not just fighters alone.

Nintendo has to be involved for licensing purposes, and I do agree with your point about how important business is, but it may be something they mostly shrug on at times. Sakurai is given a lot of control at a director. The only thing he's not outright controlling is 11 out of 12 DLC characters, since Nintendo made the selection first overall(we don't know the details, of course. Could be a list. Could be Sakurai can veto any option given. Etc.)

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Hey man, if Sakurai made a platformer starring a literal dog with a duck friend on his back traversing a cartoonish version of the northern US during hunting season, dodging crazed gunmen and collecting the duck's eggs and ultimately defeating a giant Elmer Fudd-looking idiot on the top of a haunted castle...you better believe I'd Day 1 that sh*t.

You had me at "starring a literal dog". To be honest, you'd probably get anyone with the premise of "you are a puppy and you're trying to save your duck friends".

Awesome.

I can't wait to ****ing body everyone as Turters.

I played the game and it still took me a minute to realize you're talking about Zeke's (stuffed?) turtle that appears in literally one scene.

Sakurai wanted to make Uprising and revive Kid Icarus.

...It's a matter of someone wanting to revive the franchises. That's pretty much it. Nobody else did.

I think it was more that Kid Icarus fit the gameplay he wanted. Kid Icarus: Uprising was supposed to be a Star Fox game originally.

 

[3BitSaurus]

To add to this, the Tetris spirits are effectively Tetris 99 and not Tetris proper, which is published by Nintendo.

The Kunio spirits represent the only event in the game from a company that is not already represented in any shape or form. For now, it's a strange outlier, though it's certainly not the only example of Nintendo going to a non-indie company without getting a full fighter in (Ubisoft being the other big example). I feel like either an Arcsys character is coming or we're going to get some mii costumes out of it. Just going to them for a spirit event would be pretty weird and there'd be little financial incentive to do it.

True, I forgot the Ubisoft ones - but even then it's not the same. Rayman has been pushed by Ubisoft themselves since Smash 4. And now with the AC and Rabbids costumes, their 3 "main" candidates all have content in Smash. That's not the case with Arcsys.

 

[SNEKeater]

Sakurai wanted to make Uprising and revive Kid Icarus.

...It's a matter of someone wanting to revive the franchises. That's pretty much it. Nobody else did.

Well, if I remember correctly Kid Icarus was revived because Sakurai wanted to make a game that combined air battles and close combat, then he decided to pick Kid Icarus and Nintendo gave him the approval.

 

[Dinoman96]

Kid Icarus originally being planned as a Star Fox game is a huge misnomer.

The original idea Sakurai had for Uprising was just a bare concept of a game that would switch between aerial and grounded battles. Iwata let him pick a Nintendo IP to use for it. Star Fox was an IP that was briefly considered, but ultimately Kid Icarus won out because it fit the game concept Sakurai had in mind more.

https://www.webcitation.org/6g6PaeuHT?url=http://www.1up.com/news/making-kid-icarus-uprising

Sakurai had a basic design down quickly enough, and after repeated visits to Nintendo and interviews with potential studio members, his project plan was formally approved in October of 2008. At the time, though, the game wasn't Kid Icarus yet -- it was still an original franchise.

"During that first conversation with Iwata, I asked him whether I had to stick with a Nintendo franchise for this project," Sakurai said. "Working on Smash Brothers, I knew all about how much love gamers had for all of Nintendo's games, and how frustrated they were that some of the series have lain dormant for so long. Any game designer wants to concentrate on original work, but given the role Nintendo had for me, I wanted to know if they had a particular brand they wanted to emphasize." Iwata's response? "If you think your project would be a good fit for one franchise or another, let's think about it then."

That was all the impetus Sakurai needed -- and as he began revising his project plan, Kid Icarus naturally came to mind, partly because of how popular the title remains in the West today. "When I presented my project to Nintendo, it was as a wholly original game, but in the end I suggested that we make it a Kid Icarus title instead," he revealed. "I'd have the goddess Palutena grant Pit the power of flight for five minutes at a time, and he'd fly into enemy strongholds and fight enemies on the ground afterwards. It sounded like a ton of fun, I thought, and I got the go-ahead pretty soon afterward."

https://www.siliconera.com/sakurai-also-considered-making-a-star-fox-game-for-3ds/

However, while Kid Icarus eventually turned out to be a perfect fit once the 3D technology entered the picture, another franchise was originally under consideration, but didn’t make the cut for design reasons.

"Yes, there actually was one other and that was Star Fox,” Sakurai revealed. “But the problem with Star Fox was that — and you’ll see this when you see the trailer for Kid Icarus — is that the game design incorporates a lot of different views. For example, flying and shooting sideways or turning around and shooting behind and I felt that there were some restrictions with Star Fox in this regard. With Pit, there is a certain amount of flexibility that is allowed and makes a better fit for this gameplay.”

So no, the game was never "planned" to be a Star Fox title, it was just something he briefly had considered before going with KI.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Good evening everybody!

Haven't done much thinking about Smash, as I've had some interesting things going on in my life lately.

I think Byleth is fun, though I don't think I could main them. My favorite part of the Challenger Pack is the music by far. I love the soundtrack to Three Houses, and bruh...the music works really well for Smash.

Just also wanted to say: Despite my opinions on Spirits and other topics, I don't have any investment in being "right", because I am rather open minded in terms of acceptance of new characters. Even though I literally laughed out loud when I immediately realized we were getting Three Houses content, I was excited to see what the character could do.

So basically, even if I'm wrong about some thoughts, I'll essentially be fine with it. I don't post or speculate for clout. I speculate for fun, and to talk with people who love the same game I do.

That said, I'll continue to discuss, speculate, or debate anything anybody wants to. In tandem...I will ALWAYS. DEMAND. EVIDENCE!

Anyway, starting Nier Automata tonight or tomorrow, so I will no longer be like all those Joker fans out there who are extremely excited to play Persona 5 for the first time! Yo sick burn

 

[RileyXY1]

OQUOTE="Kokiden, post: 23817392, member: 432207"]There was a recent article about how Nintendo's CEO wants people to continue playing games for longer, so there's going to be more emphasis on "initiatives" or DLC.

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20...used_on_initiatives_to_keep_consumers_playing

By the end of the second season pass, Ultimate would have been out for 3 years. I would not be surprised if they announce another one to bump it up to 4-5 years of players sticking with the game so they can purchase all the characters and get the complete roster.[/QUOTE]
The problem here is that there will be only 4 WoL slots left after FP2.

 

[Dinoman96]

The problem here is that there will be only 4 WoL slots left after FP2.

I don't think that's a problem. I think doing one more season consisting of four all new characters is a reasonable way to close out Ultimate's DLC life cycle after a good 3-4 or so years. By that point, we'd have 16 DLC fighters total, which is insane for a game like this.

 

[Extremmefan]

The problem here is that there will be only 4 WoL slots left after FP2.

Easy, Fighter's Pass 3 could have only 4 characters.