Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Cutie Gwen]

I'm not really prepared for a timeline where a Three Houses spirit event happened and Byleth still became FP5.

Considering spirits count as their thing being represented that timeline doesn't exist

 

[Michael the Spikester]

The only reason this is only being debated about Gen 8 Pokemon is due to the franchises popularity.

 

[Cosmic77]

Then why didn't Three Houses get Spirits to coincide with the release of Nintendo's major summer game?

Oh wait...

So Mario Maker 2 and Luigi's Mansion are getting reps? Surely they'd want to promote those games with Spirits, especially since both got bigger ad campaigns than Three Houses. Their absence must mean something.

 

[Sestetz]

Not gonna lie I love Nintendo and all... But if the entire DLC pack was all from Nintendo I'd probably be super disappointed, those third parties are just so hype and fun.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

As far as I'm concerned Gen 8 Pokemon are off the table the same reason Resident Evil and Astral Chain is unless there's an FP3.

 

[Faso115]

So Mario Maker 2 and Luigi's Mansion are getting reps? Surely they'd want to promote those games with Spirits, especially since both got bigger ad campaigns than Three Houses. Their absence must mean something.

Undodog and Gooigi hype!

To be completely honest, i'm pretty sure all the big players from those games are already spirits. Unless you want to add the Luigi's mansion 3 bosses

 

[Evil Trapezium]

So Mario Maker 2 and Luigi's Mansion are getting reps? Surely they'd want to promote those games with Spirits, especially since both got bigger ad campaigns than Three Houses. Their absence must mean something.

But we already have Mario and Luigi. Mario even has his builder outfit and Luigi has the Poltergust G-00.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

during the next Mii Costumes segment, Light of Nibel starts playing as you see this, wyd??

Spoiler

yeah sorry GIMP put the glow around the edges too and i couldn't get rid of that

 

[Sestetz]

during the next Mii Costumes segment, Light of Nibel starts playing as you see this, wyd??
View attachment 260434

Spoiler

yeah sorry GIMP put the glow around the edges too and i couldn't get rid of that

Off brand slugcat skin? I'll potentially use it : )

 

[Cosmic77]

Undodog and Gooigi hype!

To be completely honest, i'm pretty sure all the big players from those games are already spirits. Unless you want to add the Luigi's mansion 3 bosses

That's still not a very good argument. Both Mario and Luigi have Spirits from Mario Tennis Aces. If they wanted to add Spirits from either game, all they had to do was give them a different title (Builder Luigi, Builder Toad and Toadette, Luigi and Poltergust G-00, etc.)

 

[Noipoi]

Damn. Y’all probably right.

I really wanted Baboom too.

Here lies Noi’s hopes and dreams. 2020-2020.

 

[AEMehr]

As far as I'm concerned Gen 8 Pokemon are off the table the same reason Resident Evil and Astral Chain is unless there's an FP3.

We will follow the pattern until it is broken.

I just think it's better to keep an open mind then to ride or die certain mentalities. We really have no idea what is in store for us haha.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

interesting off the wall topic:

Joker's the first character to have a unique victory screen transition, even when you beat a Spirit on the Spirit Board. Think any other characters might have a unique transition that serves as an homage to their source material and if so which?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

interesting off the wall topic:

Joker's the first character to have a unique victory screen transition, even when you beat a Spirit on the Spirit Board. Think any other characters might have a unique transition that serves as an homage to their source material and if so which?

Sol Badguy, if he wins the match with a final smash it goes DESTROYED and his final smash ends with him looking smug in the camera while taunting

 

[Dinoman96]

during the next Mii Costumes segment, Light of Nibel starts playing as you see this, wyd??
View attachment 260434

Spoiler

yeah sorry GIMP put the glow around the edges too and i couldn't get rid of that

I'd kinda wonder why it didn't come out with Banjo considering they're both Microsoft IPs.

That is...unless this Ori costume was revealed alongside a new MS character like Chief or Steve or something.

 

[Cosmic77]

We will follow the pattern until it is broken.

I just think it's better to keep an open mind then to ride or die certain mentalities. We really have no idea what is in store for us haha.

I don't even know if it qualifies as a pattern. Since 4/5 DLC characters were third-parties who likely weren't getting Spirits in the base game, Byleth is all we have to go off of. PP hardly counts because he was so far in development by launch that he could classify as a base game character; even got an amiibo in the second wave and a Palutena's Guidance.

I'm not saying a SwSh Pokemon is guaranteed, but I don't understand why several people refuse to even consider the possibility. Really thought getting a first-party after a full year of "third-parties only" would shake things up, but apparently that's not the case.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I don't even know if it qualifies as a pattern. Since 4/5 DLC characters were third-parties who likely weren't getting Spirits in the base game, Byleth is all we have to go off of. PP hardly counts because he was so far in development by launch that he could classify as a base game character; even got an amiibo in the second wave and a Palutena's Guidance.

I'm not saying a SwSh Pokemon is guaranteed, but I don't understand why several people refuse to even consider the possibility. Really thought getting a first-party after a full year of "third-parties only" would shake things up, but apparently that's not the case.

Because we're not giving Pokemon the special treatment but rather looking at it the same way we do every other postlaunch DLC spirit. It'd do you good to try and stop putting your favourite on a pedestal

 

[Rie Sonomura]

interesting off the wall topic:

Joker's the first character to have a unique victory screen transition, even when you beat a Spirit on the Spirit Board. Think any other characters might have a unique transition that serves as an homage to their source material and if so which?

for my choice: Octoling (unsurprising) if they win a match or deal the final blow in a team battle, instead of Xander Mobus saying TIME!, GAME! or even VICTORY!, the TEST PASSED "TV Filter" appears with the Test Passed SFX. If it's a normal match, the Octoling victory theme (Test Passed from the Octo Expansion OST) plays and the screen stays until you see the victor's name (Octoling/(color) Team). It also happens on the Spirit Board AND World of Light (unless you beat a boss) only the victory jingle doesn't play

 

[SirCamp]

Style Savvy, Style Savvy, Style Savvy!!

I've actually been saying that a character popular with women is likely since pass 1...I wasn't really on the money then, but we did get Byleth who does seem pretty popular among my circles, but also I'm a weeb, so who knows.

That said, there are lots of very interesting potential picks if we look at it from that angle - Animal Crossing, Professor Layton, and Phoenix Wright have all historically had large female playerbases, and something like Ring Fit Adventurer has proven stock as both a big seller for Nintendo and as a pick popular with women and casual gamers.

I'm really glad about Ring Fit selling well. To me, Nintendo has always been at its best when it can provide those diverse gaming experiences that all stand on their own merits - strong puzzle games, unique "casual" games, and hardcore games alike have all found a home on the Switch. It's pretty cool.

This gives me slight hope again for a Story of Seasons rep too. If nothing else I’ll be surprised if we don’t get a spirit event when rune factory 5 or the next SoS finally releases

 

[Extremmefan]

The whole "X would just be a clone of Y" argument has generally been surprisingly common, despite how ridiculous it often is. It wasn't uncommon to hear about how K. Rool would be a Bowser clone, or Mega Man would be a Samus clone, and you'd also have the occasional guy saying Ridley would be a Charizard clone. There was also this really weird perception after Brawl released that Lucario was a Mewtwo clone, it took all the way until Mewtwo was added in Smash 4 for that misconception to die out.

While I no longer see anything as ridiculous as the examples I gave above, I still see a lot of posts from speculators that really makes it clear how little they actually know about this game that they spend so much time talking about.

I'd like to take some time to point out that Charizard was indeed used as a base to make Ridley out of, as Ridley has unused gliding code that every past Brawl vet (that could glide in Brawl) and their echoes (well, really just Dark Pit) also do, and Charizard is the only one of those whose general anatomy is similar enough that their moves would be generally coded similarly.
That said, imo that is not even an argument and even clones have their limits. Hell, clones allowed to have more characters in general, so I'd say if anything, if a character can reasonably be another one's clones, that just increases their general chances (albeit at the cost of originality, but the end goal is having them in the first place isn't it?). If anything having a clear base in general helps the devs have an easier time making them.

For the Pokémon, I mean I thought we had a strong presence in Fire Emblem fighters but Byleth appeared anyways. At least they're pretty enjoyable to play, I would hope a new Pokémon would also be fun to play as.

ah yes but that is with Pokémon Sword and Shield. NOT Pokémon Sword and Shield: The Isle of Armor. Very different, I assure you.

I mean you said it yourself that the games already sell comfortably well, so it is within reason to believe a fighter from Pokémon would cater to an audience other options would not. We should still consider that Smash is a game being marketed to those outside of the Smash fanbase too, so I don't think it's "tone deaf" to contact the Pokémon Company about the possibility of adding another Pokémon. There would be a lot of people that would love that.
if it were a Starter or something in the base game, yeah sure. But I would think it would be based on the Expansion Pass, so I don't think the Spirit Board hurts anything but the Pokémon in the base title.
We have no timeframe for the development of The Pokémon Expansion Pass, but if they were asked about having a Pokémon appear as a future DLC character Im sure they had designs concepts in progress. Greninja was designed off of concept art, so I'm sure if they really wanted to they could do it again. But timing is key, it could be right on the mark or just a bit too late for it. So I have to agree with you on that, we just don't know.
Also I was being coy on the disappointing thing lol.
I'm sure they are already making plans for the next mainline Pokémon games, but those are probably a year or two from being teased. Which is why I think if it were a Pokémon, it would be from the Expansion Pass.

It's not a matter of presence it's whether the rightsholders were contactable and reached out to, and FE's certainly were lol.
Isle of Armor is still SwSh at its core. Fire Emblem Awakening's DLC didn't get counted as entirely different games. Hell part of what DLC brings back is return of old 'mons, which we do also already have spirits for (I mainly remember that thanks to Dedenne).
The games sell comfortably well… to the point where TPCi wouldn't deem it any necessary to add anything. And considering Pokemon is a multi-media behemoth of a franchise it reaches so many audiences that any audience one could think of for it can be reached out to more specifically with another character they could be liking the franchise of for the same reason (and I don't mean just past direct competitors like Yokai Watch, as those would literally just be a few of Pokemon's many possible audiences), so Nintendo has no reason to push it especially short of dedicated Pokemon fans (which, judging by the lack of interest in anything that's not "the current latest of the games", is much smaller than one would think it is when they think of such a behemoth of a series). If anything most of Pokemon's fans are either young or would love (nearly) anything that could be added, or were already aware of Smash.
It could be right on the mark, but with how secret Pokemon's development tends to be to the general public (barring last second leaks and pre-release leaks), I think it's safe to assume it's also pretty well-kept amongst development teams involved with the series, meaning it's more likely for Nintendo to only ask when they know both of them are developping brand new games (and they know they have an opportunity) rather than when both are developping separate DLC that'd require way less communication and marketing (and they most likely don't know if there's even any new Pokemon in it until then). I'll agree that it's also a matter of timing though, but the way I see it's more likely to be either late or Nintendo wasn't even aware of the DLC until they were told everything about it much later and were told to help market it (which's unlikely as well imo, because Pokemon revealed that in their own Direct rather than Nintendo's).
Also "a year or two" could fit right in with the end of FP2, and if they've already started development inbetween that timeframe they're more likely to be put for (an hypothetical) FP3 afaik.
(Yes I am a bit of a closed mind, but I'd rather be surprised and have something to research further than keep an open mind and never actually be surprised that it did end up happening because "anything can happen".)

I don't even know if it qualifies as a pattern. Since 4/5 DLC characters were third-parties who likely weren't getting Spirits in the base game, Byleth is all we have to go off of. PP hardly counts because he was so far in development by launch that he could classify as a base game character; even got an amiibo in the second wave and a Palutena's Guidance.

I'm not saying a SwSh Pokemon is guaranteed, but I don't understand why several people refuse to even consider the possibility. Really thought getting a first-party after a full year of "third-parties only" would shake things up, but apparently that's not the case.

I'm going to say this now: Pokemon is a second-party, not first-party. Difference is they're owned by their own studios and not Nintendo themselves (that goes to series like Mario and Zelda), which in turn also means they can be more (or less) secretive about development (Intelligent Systems is less secretive, but TPCi and say Monolith are actually more)
Also because I personally would MUCH rather have first/second parties that feel like they've had more time to grow on people and be looked back on fondly. Prime example being Pokemon BW, which I feel had the requirements perfectly met but were sadly left out due to dev team timing alone. I don't care if what it gets is a clone, if it's what it takes to bypass lack of relevancy and promotional/creator biases I'll gladly take it as well-earned representation.

 

[AceAttorney9000]

If Street Fighter (or a different third party series) had as many characters as the Super Mario (8 characters and 1 Echo Fighter), Pokémon (10 characters), or Fire Emblem (6 characters and 2 echo fighters) series, who would you pick and why?

Some of these are more "serious", a couple of these are clearly just for ****s and giggles. Can you guess which is which?

Spoiler: Tekken

1. Heihachi Mishima (Tekken) -> Kazuya Mishima (Tekken)
2. Nina Williams (Tekken)
3. King (Tekken)
4. Yoshimitsu (Tekken)
5. Eddy Gordo (Tekken 3)
6. Jin Kazama (Tekken 3)
7. Ling Xiaoyu (Tekken 3)
8. Asuka Kazama (Tekken 5)

Spoiler: Tetris

1. I-Tetrimino (Tetris)
2. T-Tetrimino (Tetris)
3. S-Tetrimino (Tetris) -> Z-Tetrimino (Tetris)
4. L-Tetrimino (Tetris) -> J-Tetrimino (Tetris)
5. O-Tetrimino (Tetris)
6. Bomb Block (Tetris 2)

Spoiler: Final Fantasy

1. Monk (Final Fantasy)
2. Black Mage (Final Fantasy) -> White Mage (Final Fantasy)
3. Garland (Final Fantasy)
4. Chocobo (Final Fantasy II)
5. Kain Highwind (Final Fantasy IV)
6. Terra Branford (Final Fantasy VI) -> Cecil Harvey (Final Fantasy IV)

Spoiler: Dragon Quest

1. Hero (Dragon Quest XI, III, IV, and VIII) -> Erik (Dragon Quest XI)
2. Hero (Dragon Quest V)
3. Slime (Dragon Quest)
4. Dragonlord (Dragon Quest)
5. Martial Artist (Dragon Quest III)
6. Torneko (Dragon Quest IV)
7. Jade (Dragon Quest XI)
8. Builder (Dragon Quest Builders)

Spoiler: Assassin's Creed

1. Altaïr Ibn-La'Ahad (Altaïr Assassin's Creed)
2. Ezio Auditore da Firenze (Assassin's Creed II)
3. Ratonhnhaké:ton (Assassin's Creed III)
4. Edward Kenway (Assassin's Creed IV: Black Flag) -> Shay Cormac (Assassin's Creed: Rogue)
5. Jacob Frye (Assassin's Creed: Syndicate) -> Evie Frye (Assassin's Creed: Syndicate)
6. Bayek of Siwa (Assassin's Creed: Origins)

Spoiler: Marvel vs. Capcom

1. Ryu (Street Fighter) -> Ken (Street Fighter)
2. Mega Man (Mega Man)
3. Dante (Devil May Cry)
4. Phoenix Wright (Ace Attorney)
5. Wolverine (X-Men)
6. Spider-Man (Spider-Man)
7. Captain America (Avengers)
8. Magneto (X-Men)

 

[Guynamednelson]

1. Heihachi Mishima (Tekken) -> Kazuya Mishima (Tekken)
2. Nina Williams (Tekken)
3. King (Tekken)
4. Yoshimitsu (Tekken)
5. Eddy Gordo (Tekken 3)
6. Jin Kazama (Tekken 3)
7. Ling Xiaoyu (Tekken 3)
8. Asuka Kazama (Tekken 5)

You made Kazuya an alt/echo for Heihachi, but not Anna for Nina, Christie for Eddy, or Jun for Askua?

 

[Schnee117]

If Street Fighter (or a different third party series) had as many characters as the Super Mario (8 characters and 1 Echo Fighter), Pokémon (10 characters), or Fire Emblem (6 characters and 2 echo fighters) series, who would you pick and why?

For Street Fighter, I'd go with what Fire Emblem's got:
Ryu
Ken (Σ)
Akuma (Σ)
Chun-Li
M. Bison
Guile
Zangief
Menat

This covers the big names of the series, adds some important characters, and throws in a completely unique character just for fun. I didn't add Sakura or Segat because I felt that since Ryu, Ken, and Akuma all have the same moveset it would be imperative that the rest of the characters don't even remotely resemble the shotos to avoid "most of the characters are just Ryu" complaints.

Spoiler: Street Fighter

Ryu
Ken
Akuma
Chun-Li
M Bison
Karin
Seth
Zangief
Rashid
Poison

Spoiler: Mega Man

Mega Man
Protoman
Roll
Bass.exe
X
Zero
Sigma
Dr Weil
Axel
Tron Bonne

Spoiler: Metal Gear

Solid Snake
Big Boss
The Boss
Grey Fox
Psycho Mantis
Raiden
Solidus Snake
Jetstream Sam
Monsoon
Sundowner

Spoiler: Final Fantasy

Cloud
Tifa
Sephiroth
Terra
Kefka
Noctis
Squall
Lightning
Alisaie
Zenos Yae Galvus

 

[MrJudd]

interesting off the wall topic:

Joker's the first character to have a unique victory screen transition, even when you beat a Spirit on the Spirit Board. Think any other characters might have a unique transition that serves as an homage to their source material and if so which?

Dark Souls: If you lose, instead of Solaire clapping, “You died” appears.

 

[RileyXY1]

As far as I'm concerned Gen 8 Pokemon are off the table the same reason Resident Evil and Astral Chain is unless there's an FP3.

I think that if there is an FP3 then it would be too late for Gen 8. GF would be promoting Gen 9 by that point.

 

[Goombaic]

Because we're not giving Pokemon the special treatment but rather looking at it the same way we do every other postlaunch DLC spirit. It'd do you good to try and stop putting your favourite on a pedestal

I know me being a Pokemon supporter puts me in the same camp as Cosmic and makes me biased, but hear me out. It's not like the other spirit events are series with tons of potential characters like Pokemon. Resident Evil is the only other series I can think of having a character that wasn't in the spirit event (Nemesis, who I'm actually surprised isn't talked about to the same extent as Pokemon, with Resident Evil 3 getting remade and all that). Pokemon's "on a pedestal" for a reason. Is that dumb? Not to me, but I understand why you'd think otherwise.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

View attachment 260426
This clearly means Daemon X Machina, Link's Awakening, LABO, Pokemon Let's Go and more are confirmed, RIP 3H though, it won't get any content at all according to this unbiased take from the person who hates when people mildly criticize Pokemon

Hilda is looking good as usual

 

[Eldrake]

(Nemesis, who I'm actually surprised isn't talked about to the same extent as Pokemon, with Resident Evil 3 getting remade and all that)

Probably because, and I say this as someone who would love to see Nemesis in Smash, he's not exactly a protagonist and for that reason has astronomically low chances. Sakurai seems to strongly favor main protagonists when it comes to Third Party selection.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Really thought getting a first-party after a full year of "third-parties only" would shake things up, but apparently that's not the case.

Probably because it was a very specific first party saved for that purpose. Byleth changes almost nothing for other Nintendo characters, honestly. There's always the possibility of another first party from 2020/2021 being saved for DLC instead of a Spirit promotion, but that's about it.

 

[Extremmefan]

I know me being a Pokemon supporter puts me in the same camp as Cosmic and makes me biased, but hear me out. It's not like the other spirit events are series with tons of potential characters like Pokemon. Resident Evil is the only other series I can think of having a character that wasn't in the spirit event (Nemesis, who I'm actually surprised isn't talked about to the same extent as Pokemon, with Resident Evil 3 getting remade and all that). Pokemon's "on a pedestal" for a reason. Is that dumb? Not to me, but I understand why you'd think otherwise.

By that logic where's the rest of the Pokemon gens then? Gen 8 is the only one ever talked about in speculation at all. I don't see Meowth or Eevee being brought up at all despite them being big figures of TPCi's marketing recently, and we know gen 5 is getting a remake in due time (and is the current latest in Go for that matter) while gen 4 is even close to getting one, so how come SwSh is still hogging all the spotlight. If Pokemon is on such a pedestal why does only SwSh gets all that attention? (And I don't even mean just here for that matter. Even on Twitter most of Smash's Pokemon-related speculation is gen 8)

 

[Guynamednelson]

don't see Meowth or Eevee being brought up at all despite them being big figures of TPCi's marketing recently

"Too many gen 1 mons, now excuse me while I hope for the third fully-evolved starter who was added solely to have a Pokemon from the latest gen in a row."

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I know me being a Pokemon supporter puts me in the same camp as Cosmic and makes me biased, but hear me out. It's not like the other spirit events are series with tons of potential characters like Pokemon. Resident Evil is the only other series I can think of having a character that wasn't in the spirit event (Nemesis, who I'm actually surprised isn't talked about to the same extent as Pokemon, with Resident Evil 3 getting remade and all that). Pokemon's "on a pedestal" for a reason. Is that dumb? Not to me, but I understand why you'd think otherwise.

So you're telling me that rambling of Sabi about Claire getting in is worth talking about? Again, there's already SwoShi representation in the game, you're not expanding the crossover, which Sakurai's been doing

 

[Cosmic77]

Probably because it was a very specific first party saved for that purpose. Byleth changes almost nothing for other Nintendo characters, honestly. There's always the possibility of another first party from 2020/2021 being saved for DLC instead of a Spirit promotion, but that's about it.

You can interpret it however you wish, but Byleth is still the character that opened the door to first-parties.

As of now, we don't have anything that indicates what's in the second pass. There's nothing saying the pass will focus mostly on first or third-parties.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

You can interpret it however you wish, but Byleth is still the character that opened the door to first-parties.

As of now, we don't have anything that indicates what's in the second pass. There's nothing saying the pass will focus mostly on first or third-parties.

Byleth had no content prior to their addition.
SwoShi has content without a playable character.

Not sure what's so hard to get about this

 

[GoodGrief741]

You just reminded me that there were people who wanted Laboman for Smash back around when Labo came out. It definitely was a interesting pick of a character, I wonder what the support for him is like now?

It consists of me, and only me.

I have inherited the mantle of LABO Man, and it's a lonely burden to carry.

(Seriously though cardboard Pacific Rim, how can you not support that?)

 

[Cutie Gwen]

It consists of me, and only me.

I have inherited the mantle of LABO Man, and it's a lonely burden to carry.

(Seriously though cardboard Pacific Rim, how can you not support that?)

Because I'm not stupid enough to pay 60 bucks for paper! Sure, it comes with a game and materials to make VR, but clearly, all the money is just for the cardboard

 

[Homelessvagrant]

Byleth had no content prior to their addition.
SwoShi has content without a playable character.

Not sure what's so hard to get about this

I'm not sure how that means anything. I don't see how prior content being added "deconfirms" a character.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

You haven't payed a lot for cardboards until you've played traditional card games.

Anyway, not all Pokemon SwSh content is in there, so that tells me it has a ghost of a chance. There's also a lot of character options anyway that could be fun.

I lean on it being dead myself.

 

[Cosmic77]

Byleth had no content prior to their addition.
SwoShi has content without a playable character.

Not sure what's so hard to get about this

If only I had noticed that sooner. Thank you for pointing that out.

Obviously I'm aware. I interpret Spirits differently than you, and while it's certainly possible we get no Spirit upgrades, I don't see the point in acting like it's impossible. Neither of us know what's in the pass, and neither of us will be proven right or wrong until Fighter #11.

No need to act cocky and sarcastic.

 

[3BitSaurus]

You can interpret it however you wish, but Byleth is still the character that opened the door to first-parties.

As of now, we don't have anything that indicates what's in the second pass. There's nothing saying the pass will focus mostly on first or third-parties.

Yes, we don't know anything about season 2. But that's exactly the issue: we don't know if Byleth truly opened the door to all first parties or just the first parties that don't have content in Ultimate - namely future titles that Nintendo would want to reserve a spot on season 2 for.

Maybe my viewpoint is too pessimistic, but I think the latter definitely has more chances than the former.