Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[SMAASH! Puppy]

You know how PAC-MAN's content is from accross the Namco Arcade series? I wonder if other Namco characters would be treated this way:

• Heihachi: Namco Fighters series
  • Mostly Tekken stuff, but also dips into SoulCaliber, and other Namco fighting games.
• Lloyd: Namco RPG series
  • Mostly Tales of stuff, but also takes some stuff from the Xeno series, and other Namco RPGs.

I dunno. Just a thought.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

If PlayStation All Stars could make Heihachi work in a party platform game, I have no doubts that Sakurai could do the same.

I agree that Sakurai could easily make him work, but does the way PSASBR made Heihachi work, work for Sakurai?

I really think what separates the two games is the vision of the people involved, and with Sakurai I just...have to wonder if that’s satisfactory, you know?

 

[Cosmic77]

Personally, I really don't have a preference between Heihachi and Lloyd. Both would be one of those, "Cool. Now on to the next fighter," characters for me, so Sakurai can pick either and I wouldn't care.

I'm not sure if I expect another Namco character though. Seems like most people are using the "They haven't gotten another character yet/They deserve a reward for helping make the game" argument, and I don't think that's as indicative of a new character as people think it is. Byleth was once the last DLC fighter, meaning Namco would've still been stuck with only Pac-Man.

 

[Deleted member]

I agree that Sakurai could easily make him work, but does the way PSASBR made Heihachi work, work for Sakurai?

I really think what separates the two games is the vision of the people involved, and with Sakurai I just...have to wonder if that’s satisfactory, you know?

The final Smash should be the same concept, that's for sure.

Tying your opponents to an explosivo rocket is the coolest thing ever.

 

[staindgrey]

Not an expert but:

Jin Kazama was the main protagonist in Tekken 3, 4 and 5, became the main villain in 6, was absent of the main story of 7 and seems to be back as the protagonist for Tekken 8. Also he wasn't born in Tekken 1 and 2.

And the rivalry between Hwoarang and Jin just kind of faded into the wind to be forever forgotten.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I agree that Sakurai could easily make him work, but does the way PSASBR made Heihachi work, work for Sakurai?

I really think what separates the two games is the vision of the people involved, and with Sakurai I just...have to wonder if that’s satisfactory, you know?

PSASBR's Heihachi has some moves I can't imagine Sakurai giving Heihachi, like an airdash and throwing bowling pins. This would conflict with Ryu, Ken, and Terry simply having moves ripped from their origin games (yes, even Terry's up air, it's taken from Kim.)

 

[HansShotFirst20]

Aight so can I get an explanation on this:

Someone asks a Bethesda/id employee if there have been talks of Doomguy being added to Smash. Bethesda replies 'not seriously' and Doomguy is now 100% deconfirmed.

But when a Tekken/Namco employee exclaims that Heihachi will never be in smash when pestered about it on twitter, Heihachi is still one of the most likely Namco reps?

 

[MooMew64]

Aight so can I get an explanation on this:

Someone asks a Bethesda/id employee if there have been talks of Doomguy being added to Smash. Bethesda replies 'not seriously' and Doomguy is now 100% deconfirmed.

But when a Tekken/Namco employee exclaims that Heihachi will never be in smash when pestered about it on twitter, Heihachi is still one of the most likely Namco reps?

It was more about the way the interview was presented. It was extremely candid and sincere, not to mention open. NDAs wouldn't really allow you to say "Oh yeah, we talked about it with them, but they didn't really seem interested, but we sure are!". They'd either move on from the question entirely, or just give a flat out "No".

 

[SKX31]

I agree that Sakurai could easily make him work, but does the way PSASBR made Heihachi work, work for Sakurai?

I really think what separates the two games is the vision of the people involved, and with Sakurai I just...have to wonder if that’s satisfactory, you know?

Just took a quick look at his moveset in All-Stars. A lot of them could certainly work in Smash (video shows off all his moves, including his three supers):

His Spinning Demon (spin kick), Wind God Fist (uppercut, inputable into Electric Wind God Fist) and Lightning Hammer (his level 1 super) could be translated pretty easily alongside airdash and bowling pins. Heaven's Wrath looks like a counter, but it's less of a counter in All-Stars and more a "break-away" option.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

And of course Ms. Pac-Man is an obvious and easy echo that should have been added a while ago.

Too bad we won't be seeing her for a long time. We may not even get to see her in PAC-Land should the stage reappear in the next game.

 

[HansShotFirst20]

Too bad we won't be seeing her for a long time. We may not even get to see her in PAC-Land should the stage reappear in the next game.

>Should the stage reappear in the next game
God, I hope not

 

[MooMew64]

Pac-Man should've gotten Pac-Man World content. Just sayin'.

 

[Jomosensual]

Aight so can I get an explanation on this:

Someone asks a Bethesda/id employee if there have been talks of Doomguy being added to Smash. Bethesda replies 'not seriously' and Doomguy is now 100% deconfirmed.

But when a Tekken/Namco employee exclaims that Heihachi will never be in smash when pestered about it on twitter, Heihachi is still one of the most likely Namco reps?

Someone getting salty on twitter and basically telling people to **** off is not the same as a sit down interview

 

[Eldrake]

A mechanic that I've wanted to see implemented well in Smash is resource management. Robin does rely on resource management but his playstyle didn't click with me, he was too slow and clunky for my taste (seriously he's slower than Ganondorf). I was hoping that one of the DLC fighters would use resource management in an efficient way that opens a ton of different ways to decide your approach options.

The first three DLC fighters did have resource management but not in the way I wanted. Joker's meter is just "unga bunga me get stronger when you hit me" which is just another comeback mechanic like Lucario's aura and Little Mac's KO punch. Hero's MP gauge is what I wanted to see from the character, but it got butchered with the implementation of RNG in the command menu. Hero is a character I would've fallen in love with if it wasn't for this. Banjo only has one move that relies on resource management which is too simple for what I want.

Before Resident Evil was deconfirmed I really wanted to see someone like Leon that brings with him proper survival horror mechanics with limited ammo and items. The way I imagined it is that Leon would have weapons that require ammo to use. Leon would have gunpoweder to mix together in his item slot to make different kinds of ammo, because the gunpowder is limited it leads to the question of which type of weapon you wish to use more for the situation. There was also the possibility of implementing herbs that you can mix together to heal yourself. Think of it as something similair to the 4th survivor mode in RE2 where you play as Hunk with a predetermined amount of gunpowder and herbs and you have to rely on them to complete your mission.

But of course that dream is now dead. So the only character I have left that could bring the resource management I want is Steve from Minecraft. My idea for Steve is that he would start off weak but would get stronger as the match progresses since he would be crafting items that make him more durable and frightening. The question is how are the resources needed to craft are collected? I've seen suggestions where these items drop from the blocks you leave on the stage, I also saw other suggestions where they would drop out of the opponents you beat up instead. Using these resources you could choose to either craft a new item that can help you, or craft a better weapon that increases the amount of damage you can dish out, or craft better armor that makes you receive less damage. There would be so many possibilities and strategy you can do with these options which is kind of what I'm looking for.


We can talk about characters we want because we like their games and whatnot, but I don't see many people talk about what kind of mechanics and archetypes they want to see the most in Smash. I feel like this discussion can be useful in realizing the potential of many characters we never realized had it in them.

Proper resource management sounds like something that's missing. Which is probably why I wrote Gordon's moveset with that in mind.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Aight so can I get an explanation on this:

Someone asks a Bethesda/id employee if there have been talks of Doomguy being added to Smash. Bethesda replies 'not seriously' and Doomguy is now 100% deconfirmed.

But when a Tekken/Namco employee exclaims that Heihachi will never be in smash when pestered about it on twitter, Heihachi is still one of the most likely Namco reps?

Spoiler: Image

I think it's perceived as Harada being Harada, as from what I understand he's like this with Tekken fans as well.

>Should the stage reappear in the next game
God, I hope not

I think the stage is fine, but it shouldn't be PAC-MAN's only stage.

 

[SvartWolf]

all this talk about namco rep and noone even slightly considers dark souls makes my hearth ache with grief.

 

[Deleted member]

HOLY FRICK CONTRERAS, FIGHTER 6 LEAKED

 

[RetroBro]

Aight so can I get an explanation on this:

Someone asks a Bethesda/id employee if there have been talks of Doomguy being added to Smash. Bethesda replies 'not seriously' and Doomguy is now 100% deconfirmed.

But when a Tekken/Namco employee exclaims that Heihachi will never be in smash when pestered about it on twitter, Heihachi is still one of the most likely Namco reps?

Speculators tend to forget a lot of things. Conveniently too.

 

[Faso115]

Hey, new guy to smashboards. Felt brave and decided to try this place first. Hopefully no one is fighting over spirits this time

 

[Deleted member]

Hey, new guy to smashboards. Felt brave and decided to try this place first. Hopefully no one is fighting over spirits this time

Welcome to Smashboards!

Hopefully you have a cool time with us!

 

[Garteam]

Hey, new guy to smashboards. Felt brave and decided to try this place first. Hopefully no one is fighting over spirits this time

Welcome! Don't worry about fights, we do scuffle, but just remember we have a unifying image that binds us all together:

 

[Deleted member]

Welcome! Don't worry about fights, we do scuffle, but just remember we have a unifying image that binds us all together:

Their name is Baboom btw Faso115

He always wins

 

[Faso115]

Their name is Baboom btw Faso115

He always wins

But can he beat Luigi?

 

[Deleted member]

But can he beat Luigi?

Surely

 

[PeridotGX]

But can he beat Luigi?

The presence of Baboom causes Luigi to move, as to prevent the collapse of the universe, as they cannot both win.

 

[Knight Dude]

There's a topic on the gamefaqs board that I'd like to answer, but I'd like to hear others' answers first.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/78360903#qp

"Specifics or how broadly you choose to interpret it are up to you.

Archer
Athlete
Baby
Cowboy
Demon
Ghost
Ginger
Humanoid alien
Living sword
Pirate
Samurai
Shapeshifter
Sibling to someone on the existing roster
Time traveler
Witch / Wizard "

Archer - Lara Croft might count, but she's more known for guns overall.
Athlete - Mike Haggar I guess.
Baby - None
Cowboy - Dillon, though he's an AT.
Demon - Dante
Ghost - Scorpion counts, right?
Ginger - None
Humanoid Alien - Ratchet and Clank?
Living Sword - Nightmare
Pirate - Captain Syrup
Samurai - Haohmaru
Shapeshifter - Shantae
Sibling - Mega Man X
Time Traveler - Crono
Witch/Wizard - Isaac? Again, already an AT.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Someone getting salty on twitter and basically telling people to **** off is not the same as a sit down interview

I could be remembering things wrong, but... wasn't this entire episode because of a guy spamming for Sora, not Heihachi? If so, I don't see how Harada's tweets would affect his chances...

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Felt brave and decided to try this place first.

*Only made 2 posts here but has 4 posts total*

Press X to doubt.

I could be remembering things wrong, but... wasn't this entire episode because of a guy spamming for Sora, not Heihachi? If so, I don't see how Harada's tweets would affect his chances...

Why would they be spamming Harada about Sora?

 

[MisterMike]

Hey, new guy to smashboards. Felt brave and decided to try this place first. Hopefully no one is fighting over spirits this time

Welcome! Always nice to see a new face!

 

[TheCJBrine]

I could be remembering things wrong, but... wasn't this entire episode because of a guy spamming for Sora, not Heihachi? If so, I don't see how Harada's tweets would affect his chances...

I think what happened was different people were joining in on a for-fun meme chain with CharactersForSmash accounts, and a random guy hopped in tagging a bunch of people including Sakurai and Harada for some dumb reason, and everyone who continued didn’t realize they were also tweeting to them.

 

[kirbsmash]

Why would they be spamming Harada about Sora?

Oh, yeah....it was Sora.

Yeah...so....

 

[shinhed-echi]

Archer: ............ Takumi (Fire Emblem) dammit!
Athlete: Mike Jones, ace pitcher (StarTropics)
Baby: Baby Mario & Luigi (Partners in Time)
Cowboy: Clive (Gunman Clive)
Demon: Dante (Devil May Cry)
Ghost: King Boo (Luigi’s Mansion)
Ginger: Julie (Zombies Ate My Neighbors)
Humanoid alien: Zoda (StarTropics)
Living sword: Pyra (Xenoblade 2)
Pirate: Risky Boots (Shantae)
Samurai: Takamaru (Nazo no Murasame Jo)
Shapeshifter: Shantae
Sibling to someone on the existing roster: Protoman or Roll (Megaman)
Time traveler: Crono (Chrono Trigger)
Witch / Wizard: Magus (Chrono Trigger)

 

[Souless_shadow]

But can he beat Luigi?

Is that even a question. Baboom is singlehandedly the strongest character in the Nintendo universe

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Archer - Lara Croft might count, but she's more known for guns overall.
Athlete - Mike Haggar I guess.
Baby - None
Cowboy - Dillon, though he's an AT.
Demon - Dante
Ghost - Scorpion counts, right?
Ginger - None
Humanoid Alien - Ratchet and Clank?
Living Sword - Nightmare
Pirate - Captain Syrup
Samurai - Haohmaru
Shapeshifter - Shantae
Sibling - Mega Man X
Time Traveler - Crono
Witch/Wizard - Isaac? Again, already an AT.

I’ll give this a shot
Archer - KOS-MOS, technically?? Guns count idc
Athlete - Black Shadow. He fits the build
Baby - ... Bandana Dee?
Cowboy - nope, no idea
Demon - the obvious Dante
Ghost - ?????
Ginger - Neku I guess
Humanoid Alien -

Spoiler: Xeno X spoiler

Elma

Living Sword - ????
Pirate - Sylux, if space pirates count
Samurai - uhhhh Sephiroth?
Shapeshifter - Octoling cause duh
Sibling - Fiora cause she’s the younger sister of Dunban who’s in Shulk’s Final Smash
Time traveler - ?????
Wizard/Witch - Arle

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Personally, I really don't have a preference between Heihachi and Lloyd. Both would be one of those, "Cool. Now on to the next fighter," characters for me, so Sakurai can pick either and I wouldn't care.

I'm not sure if I expect another Namco character though. Seems like most people are using the "They haven't gotten another character yet/They deserve a reward for helping make the game" argument, and I don't think that's as indicative of a new character as people think it is. Byleth was once the last DLC fighter, meaning Namco would've still been stuck with only Pac-Man.

I think it has less to do with "They haven't gotten a character" and more to do with the fact that Tekken, Tales, and Dark Souls are some of the biggest franchises in Japanese gaming not currently in Smash in any form beyond Heihachi's singular taunt appearance with Pac-Man. Tekken is actually the largest video game franchise originating in Japan that isn't currently in Smash in any major way and has also had the Heihachi Mii costume in the past, the absence of which during Terry's presentation does rather naturally raise some questions (that are further emphasized by Tekken's legacy).

Overall Bandai Namco holds the keys to a ton of not only large and important, but beloved IPs in the Japanese gaming world, and the fact that they remain so untapped compared to the other big Japanese developers will always make Bandai-Namco a frontrunner for these discussions until they get a second rep.



Also, the whole "Byleth" was the last DLC fighter originally feels like its predicated on a reality that was never going to happen. People want to make the point that they chose DLC for Volume 2 at a later date and thus all decision making was built around the idea that the Fighter's Pass was largely it... but that doesn't even really make that much sense when you consider Nintendo is a company looking to DLC more and more these days. There almost certainly had to be discussions about continuing support for Smash beyond the Fighter's Pass if it was a success. That doesn't mean Volume 2 was all planned out forever ago, but Volume 1 was likely only ever going to be the end if Ultimate and that original Fighter's Pass performed poorly, which was almost never going to be the case to begin with. Even if the Fighter's Pass hadn't been insanely successful, there's a good chance they may have still decided to add more DLC, just not as much considering they still supported Smash 4 for a full year and a half despite it being in a worse position and also having development stopped on it in favor of starting Ultimate.

I admit I don't really have evidence to base that conclusion on, but it sort of seems like more DLC would have been on the table from early on and they would have just decided how to handle it based upon how Ultimate and the Fighter's Pass did.

 

[Faso115]

I get the feeling Dark Souls is only going to get a Mii costume. As for Tekken, it is in the game even if just a miniscule sprite in Pacman's taunt.

Although the situation with Heihachi is a bit complex. His JP Va passed away in 2018 and i have no clue if he was recasted or not so i'm not sure if he is feasable rn. They could also use Jin or Kazuya, probably the former since they like using the hero first.

 

[SuperSceptile15]

Out of curiosity, who does everyone think is the more likely Namco rep, Heihachi or Lloyd? Likewise, who does everyone personally want more?

KOS-MOS. Tekken gameplay doesn't transfer well to Smash (remember that Sakurai turned down Heihachi for Pac-Man in Sm4sh), and KOS-MOS has the advantage of being associated with a first party series that's lacking in representation.

So, what do you guys think will be the reveal and release schedule for the Fighters Pass 2?

For me, let me start by stating which 6 I'd like to see included in the pass (in the order I hope to see them released): Crash, Lloyd Irving, Sora, a Gen 8 Pokemon, Geno and a Zelda character (preferably someone new from BOTW2). I understand that a lot of these are long shots, but this is still what I am hoping for.

Crash: Tease/reveal in a February 2020 Nintendo Direct, followed by release in April 2020.

Lloyd Irving: Reveal at E3 2020, followed by release in late summer 2020.

Sora: Reveal at E3 2020, followed by release in late autumn 2020.

Gen 8 Pokemon: Reveal on Pokemon Day 2021, followed by release in March or April 2021.

Geno: Reveal at E3 2021, followed by release in summer 2021.

Zelda character: Reveal and release in autumn 2021.

I think the release of these characters will be a little more spaced out than it was for Fighters Pass 1, especially since it has more characters (but also so they could milk this as much as possible).

I know "Zelda character" is not specific, but a lot of big ones are already ruled out. Also, I know SWSH already has spirits, but I can't shake the feeling that we could still get someone from SWSH, like maybe Urshifu. Bit of a stretch to expect 2 Square Enix characters in one pass, especially since we got Hero in the last pass, but I still haven't entirely given up hope on Sora and Geno. Sora's reveal could coincide with KH coming to Switch.

Two things:
1. I doubt the next fighter is being revealed next month right after Byleth.
2. The most I expect for Geno is the Sans/Cuphead treatment.

 

[Hinata]

Speaking of Geno, someone in one of my Discord servers was asking who owned him; Nintendo or Square. I made a joke that he's "the child neither parent wanted custody of in the divorce", and someone else got ****in' PISSED at me and started ranting about how the only reason Geno hasn't appeared in anything since Mario RPG is because Square loves him soooooo much, that they refuse to let anyone else use him, or let him appear in anything ever again.

I hope I'm not alone in thinking that makes no sense.

 

[Faso115]

Speaking of Geno, someone in one of my Discord servers was asking who owned him; Nintendo or Square. I made a joke that he's "the child neither parent wanted custody of in the divorce", and someone else got ****in' PISSED at me and started ranting about how the only reason Geno hasn't appeared in anything since Mario RPG is because Square loves him soooooo much, that they refuse to let anyone else use him, or let him appear in anything ever again.

I hope I'm not alone in thinking that makes no sense.

Nope, some Geno fans can get pretty sensitive about him.

So that makes Mallow the younger sibling they abandoned in a mall never to be seen again?

 

[MisterMike]

Speaking of Geno, someone in one of my Discord servers was asking who owned him; Nintendo or Square. I made a joke that he's "the child neither parent wanted custody of in the divorce", and someone else got ****in' PISSED at me and started ranting about how the only reason Geno hasn't appeared in anything since Mario RPG is because Square loves him soooooo much, that they refuse to let anyone else use him, or let him appear in anything ever again.

I hope I'm not alone in thinking that makes no sense.

Hahaha, oh wow. Even as a Geno supporter I find that to be utter bull****.