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Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

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I.D.

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 1, 2019
Messages
1,552
There's no evidence for Byleth being planned to release before Three Houses launched. And if there's some info about it it's the first time I heard about that.
He means Byleth was chosen before his game released.
 

RileyXY1

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 8, 2016
Messages
7,161
It's already confirmed that Byleth's reveal trailer was recorded all the way back in November.
 

SKX31

Smash Master
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Feb 22, 2019
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Location
Sweden
There's no evidence for Byleth being planned to release before Three Houses launched. And if there's some info about it it's the first time I heard about that.
He means Byleth was chosen before his game released.
Wouldn't be surprised if Nintendo's (and Furukawa's) idea was somewhere along the lines of "Hey, perhaps we should include a FE character for DLC again. We're inching slowly but surely towards flagship status with it and enough people bought Corrin back in 4 to justify the costs. We're taking this gamble again."

And Sakurai jumped onto Byleth because of the weapon variety and probably because he really liked what he saw in 3H's early development.
 

Flik

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 16, 2014
Messages
370
My unpopular opinion: None of the "big names" thrown around here interest me: not dante, sora, 2b, phoenix wright, heihachi (although this one has a different reason), master chief, a dark souls, elder scroll character... The closest to a big name I like is probably Crash (Doomguy I'm mostly OK with, though) and Hayabusa.

There are a few names from games I never played that are mentioned here that do have my interest: Arle, Kiryu, Professor Layton (someone said SWORDFIGHTER so I'm in :upsidedown:), Lloyd... there should be a few more but I can't remember right now.

And I'm not expecting spirits upgrades but I'm wouldn't dscard it either.

In light of Season 2, who are your ideal 6? For me it's:

Ezio Auditore (Assassin's Creed II, BH, RE)
Kazuya Mishima/Devil (Tekken)
Raziel (Soul Reaver)
Abe (Abe's Oddysee)
Lu Bu (Warriors)
Spyro the Dragon
Any pass with either Kazuya or Jin is an instant 6/6 to me (although the rest is fine too) :grin:

Mine would be:

Kazuya Mishima - Tekken (I'd be fine with Jin Kazama)
Siegfried Schtauffen - Soulcalibur (i'd be fine with Nightmare)
Sakura Shinguji - Sakura Wars (I'd b fine with Sakura Amamiya)
Agnès Oblige - Bravely Default (I'd like the other protagonists too as alts but I also prefer the artwork over the chibi style from the game)
Adol Christin - Ys
Miriam - Bloodstained

Swap Agnés for Geno if we include spirits upgrade.
 
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Wunderwaft

Smash Master
Joined
Mar 21, 2019
Messages
3,463
A mechanic that I've wanted to see implemented well in Smash is resource management. Robin does rely on resource management but his playstyle didn't click with me, he was too slow and clunky for my taste (seriously he's slower than Ganondorf). I was hoping that one of the DLC fighters would use resource management in an efficient way that opens a ton of different ways to decide your approach options.

The first three DLC fighters did have resource management but not in the way I wanted. Joker's meter is just "unga bunga me get stronger when you hit me" which is just another comeback mechanic like Lucario's aura and Little Mac's KO punch. Hero's MP gauge is what I wanted to see from the character, but it got butchered with the implementation of RNG in the command menu. Hero is a character I would've fallen in love with if it wasn't for this. Banjo only has one move that relies on resource management which is too simple for what I want.

Before Resident Evil was deconfirmed I really wanted to see someone like Leon that brings with him proper survival horror mechanics with limited ammo and items. The way I imagined it is that Leon would have weapons that require ammo to use. Leon would have gunpoweder to mix together in his item slot to make different kinds of ammo, because the gunpowder is limited it leads to the question of which type of weapon you wish to use more for the situation. There was also the possibility of implementing herbs that you can mix together to heal yourself. Think of it as something similair to the 4th survivor mode in RE2 where you play as Hunk with a predetermined amount of gunpowder and herbs and you have to rely on them to complete your mission.

But of course that dream is now dead. So the only character I have left that could bring the resource management I want is Steve from Minecraft. My idea for Steve is that he would start off weak but would get stronger as the match progresses since he would be crafting items that make him more durable and frightening. The question is how are the resources needed to craft are collected? I've seen suggestions where these items drop from the blocks you leave on the stage, I also saw other suggestions where they would drop out of the opponents you beat up instead. Using these resources you could choose to either craft a new item that can help you, or craft a better weapon that increases the amount of damage you can dish out, or craft better armor that makes you receive less damage. There would be so many possibilities and strategy you can do with these options which is kind of what I'm looking for.


We can talk about characters we want because we like their games and whatnot, but I don't see many people talk about what kind of mechanics and archetypes they want to see the most in Smash. I feel like this discussion can be useful in realizing the potential of many characters we never realized had it in them.
 
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DarthEnderX

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Nov 10, 2014
Messages
7,670
I'm actually even hotter on Kiryu now than I was before now that Kunio has been deconfirmed.

I was skeptical of the idea that we'd get TWO Japanese street toughs in white suits. But now that one is out of the running, the path has been opened for the other.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
I want to hear unpopular opinions about Smash speculation from people who are willing to share.
If Smash was getting another Capcom rep, I prefer for it to be a character who hasn't appeared in the VS games. Characters like Gene from God Hand, Samanosuke from Onimusha, Date Masamune from Sengoku Basara, and the Arisen from Dragon's Dogma (my favorite Capcom game) would end up being more exciting to me than characters like Morrigan, Dante, and Phoenix Wright.
 

Al-kīmiyā'

Smash the State
Joined
Apr 22, 2010
Messages
2,574
There's a topic on the gamefaqs board that I'd like to answer, but I'd like to hear others' answers first.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/78360903#qp

"Specifics or how broadly you choose to interpret it are up to you.

Archer
Athlete
Baby
Cowboy
Demon
Ghost
Ginger
Humanoid alien
Living sword
Pirate
Samurai
Shapeshifter
Sibling to someone on the existing roster
Time traveler
Witch / Wizard "
 

Ayumi Tachibana

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 28, 2018
Messages
537
Actually

Nintendo makes the list

and then sakurai chooses from that list and see if he can make it work or not
Sakurai did say in his famitsu column after Terry's reveal that Nintendo asked him to make specific characters. He never once said there was a list to choose from. This list thing was always just a fan made up theory.

This translation is correct but rough.
Their full translation is way more accurate.
https://www.sourcegaming.info/2019/09/11/sakurai-talks-more-about-smash-ultimate-dlc-development/
First, again, the fighter lineup is basically decided by Nintendo. Naturally since they’re confident in me, they would consult me each time asking, “Do you know whether or not you could develop this character?” If the request is unreasonable, I can potentially refuse them.
One thing to note, when you use "This" in Japanese in this kind of context, it's a quite strong emphasis. The original text said "そのファイター".
 
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Michael the Spikester

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Amaterasu or Phoenix Wright are still my most wanted Capcom rep although I wouldn't mind Dante.
 
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PeridotGX

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There's a topic on the gamefaqs board that I'd like to answer, but I'd like to hear others' answers first.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/78360903#qp

"Specifics or how broadly you choose to interpret it are up to you.

Archer
Athlete
Baby
Cowboy
Demon
Ghost
Ginger
Humanoid alien
Living sword
Pirate
Samurai
Shapeshifter
Sibling to someone on the existing roster
Time traveler
Witch / Wizard "
Archer - Claude
Athlete -the Javelin Toss is an athletic activity, so Bandana Dee
Baby - Baby Mario, i guess
Cowboy - Tauros, as it is an all-male race of cows.
Demon - Dante
Ghost - Decidueye
Ginger - Dusk Lycanroc's hair is technically that color.
Alien - I'm at a loss here, so I'm just gonna do steven universe characters. Peridot.
Living Sword - Aegislash (not many options here)
Pirate - Lars (space pirate, but whatever)
Samurai - the Steel Samurai
Shapeshifter- Spinel
Sibling - using Pokemon breeding mechanics, it's possible to get Pikachu and Sirfech'd to be siblings.
Time Traveler - Grovyle
Wizard - Kamek
 

Mushroomguy12

Smash Hero
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Messages
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Male Byleth really does need more love. He really pulls off the "stoic mercenary" look that his character is all about. Female Byleth just has an overall worse design, with her bug sized eyes and her questionable choice in apparel. Why didn't she get the same exact clothing as Male Byleth? Anyways, no offense to the people that like her, of course.

Also, I feel like people like to neglect the male versions of Avatars. Have you ever seen the thumbnails of Byleth reaction videos on YouTube? 9 times out of 10 they use the F!Byleth render despite M!Byleth being the default. I wouldn't even complain if they use the both of them side by side, but that's not the case. It's just F!Byleth, F!Byleth, F!Byleth. Same case goes for tier lists. Sometimes they use the female alts despite there being no point in choosing them over the default male alts. It all just comes down to preference I guess, but I don't know why I'm just so easily bothered by it.

Anyway, when are we getting Kris and Kiran for Smash? Kris is the only avatar yet to make an appearance anywhere else, whether it be Smash or Fire Emblem Heroes. I always see people making art of the Avatars together, yet just about anyone who's not a Japanese artist forgets to draw them. I don't blame them since FE12 wasn't localized in the west, but it'd be cool to see some (Male) Kris art. Female Kris is fine, but I'll probably take back my words once she starts to overshadow Male Kris like F!Byleth did with M!Byleth, and F!Robin did with M!Robin at one point.

Kiran would be cool as an assist trophy, but I'll settle for M!Robin's White Mage alt getting replaced by an alt based off Kiran's color scheme. I don't see Kiran becoming a fighter anytime soon, but it'd be pretty cool if he made it in sometime in the future.
I feel like its cause, even with 8 characters, we still don't have even a single unique female Fire Emblem character that isn't a genderswap alternate costume, despite there being plenty of options. Lyn or Anna would have been nice.
 
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Wunderwaft

Smash Master
Joined
Mar 21, 2019
Messages
3,463
There's a topic on the gamefaqs board that I'd like to answer, but I'd like to hear others' answers first.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/78360903#qp

"Specifics or how broadly you choose to interpret it are up to you.

Archer
Athlete
Baby
Cowboy
Demon
Ghost
Ginger
Humanoid alien
Living sword
Pirate
Samurai
Shapeshifter
Sibling to someone on the existing roster
Time traveler
Witch / Wizard "
Archer: Emiya Lara :teeth:
Athlete: Ring Fit Trainer
Baby: Kamek (He kidnaps them all the time)
Cowboy: John Marston
Demon: Dante
Ghost: Kratos (Literally in his title)
Ginger: Crash
Humanoid alien: Goku
Living sword: Pyra / Mythra
Pirate: Luffy
Samurai: Ryu Hayabusa (He fought a lot of Samurai so screw it I'm putting him in)
Shapeshifter: Alucard
Sibling: Waluigi :awesome:
Time traveler: Ratchet & Clank
Witch / Wizard: Ashley
 

SNEKeater

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 4, 2019
Messages
3,375
Wouldn't be surprised if Nintendo's (and Furukawa's) idea was somewhere along the lines of "Hey, perhaps we should include a FE character for DLC again. We're inching slowly but surely towards flagship status with it and enough people bought Corrin back in 4 to justify the costs. We're taking this gamble again."

And Sakurai jumped onto Byleth because of the weapon variety and probably because he really liked what he saw in 3H's early development.
Yeah, I can totally see this. If I was Nintendo I would keep pushing Fire Emblem. FE as a brand is growing and if there's an opportunity for make it bigger is now.

A mechanic that I've wanted to see implemented well in Smash is resource management. Robin does rely on resource management but his playstyle didn't click with me, he was too slow and clunky for my taste (seriously he's slower than Ganondorf). I was hoping that one of the DLC fighters would use resource management in an efficient way that opens a ton of different ways to decide your approach options.

The first three DLC fighters did have resource management but not in the way I wanted. Joker's meter is just "unga bunga me get stronger when you hit me" which is just another comeback mechanic like Lucario's aura and Little Mac's KO punch. Hero's MP gauge is what I wanted to see from the character, but it got butchered with the implementation of RNG in the command menu. Hero is a character I would've fallen in love with if it wasn't for this. Banjo only has one move that relies on resource management which is too simple for what I want.

Before Resident Evil was deconfirmed I really wanted to see someone like Leon that brings with him proper survival horror mechanics with limited ammo and items. The way I imagined it is that Leon would have weapons that require ammo to use. Leon would have gunpoweder to mix together in his item slot to make different kinds of ammo, because the gunpowder is limited it leads to the question of which type of weapon you wish to use more for the situation. There was also the possibility of implementing herbs that you can mix together to heal yourself. Think of it as something similair to the 4th survivor mode in RE2 where you play as Hunk with a predetermined amount of gunpowder and herbs and you have to rely on them to complete your mission.

But of course that dream is now dead. So the only character I have left that could bring the resource management I want is Steve from Minecraft. My idea for Steve is that he would start off weak but would get stronger as the match progresses since he would be crafting items that make him more durable and frightening. The question is how are the resources needed to craft are collected? I've seen suggestions where these items drop from the blocks you leave on the stage, I also saw other suggestions where they would drop out of the opponents you beat up instead. Using these resources you could choose to either craft a new item that can help you, or craft a better weapon that increases the amount of damage you can dish out, or craft better armor that makes you receive less damage. There would be so many possibilities and strategy you can do with these options which is kind of what I'm looking for.


We can talk about characters we want because we like their games and whatnot, but I don't see many people talk about what kind of mechanics and archetypes they want to see the most in Smash. I feel like this discussion can be useful in realizing the potential of many characters we never realized had it in them.
I'm with you. That was one of the reasons I wanted a Resident Evil rep. Also because I love the series, of course. But gameplay wise I think that a character from RE would bring super interesting things. Maybe Leon/Jil wouldn't be super exciting visually speaking, but I could feel that a character from RE would be that kind of fighter that's more interesting to play with instead of seeing it in action.

About Steve, I wouldn't mind him. I could live without him on the roster, but I don't think that moveset potential would be a problem for Steve, that's for sure.
 

Frizz

Will Thwack You At 0%
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I feel like its cause, even with 8 characters, we don't have any unique female Fire Emblem characters that actually are the default costumes, despite there being plenty of options. Lyn or Anna would have been nice.
Oh right, Anna. She would've been amazing DLC. She's all about money, so I'm sure they could've done something clever and witty with that.

Since Nintendo is the one who offers Sakurai fighter suggestions, I'm surprised they haven't brought her up to him. Next to Marth, she's practically the mascot of the series. She's made so many appearances, and there's so much source material to work from. I guess they're just not interested in non-main characters.

Lyn would've been great too. I just hope the next Smash game has a much better Fire Emblem roster, because there's just so much to choose from, and having 4 characters with a near-similar moveset doesn't positively influence the thoughts of Smash fans on the series.
 

RileyXY1

Smash Hero
Joined
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Messages
7,161
Oh right, Anna. She would've been amazing DLC. She's all about money, so I'm sure they could've done something clever and witty with that.

Since Nintendo is the one who offers Sakurai fighter suggestions, I'm surprised they haven't brought her up to him. Next to Marth, she's practically the mascot of the series. She's made so many appearances, and there's so much source material to work from. I guess they're just not interested in non-main characters.

Lyn would've been great too. I just hope the next Smash game has a much better Fire Emblem roster, because there's just so much to choose from, and having 4 characters with a near-similar moveset doesn't positively influence the thoughts of Smash fans on the series.
The roster would probably get cut down, so some of the FE characters might be on the chopping block.
 

Frizz

Will Thwack You At 0%
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The roster would probably get cut down, so some of the FE characters might be on the chopping block.
Yeah, I can't say I see Chrom returning. Roy might return due to Smash fan favoritism, and Lucina might stay too because of how little dev time she takes up as well as being a popular character among FE fans. I don't think Corrin or Byleth would return either, which is unfortunate, because they have unique movesets. Robin might stay since they've become a pretty well-liked character both within the Smash and FE community. Ike might stay too—he's also a pretty popular character.

Then again, who knows. Fire Emblem could continue to grow in sales enough to warrant a decently sized roster number rather than being cut down to 1-2 characters. It could also start to flop again after Fire Emblem Three Houses. Only time will tell.
 

King Sonnn DeDeDoo

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The basement of the Alamo
Sibling to someone on the existing roster
So that got me interested in who on the roster actually has siblings and what could fit that criteria.

Every-single non-legendary pokemon through ditto breeding.
Tracey (Ness' sister)
Elice (Marth's sister)
Morgan (Potential sibling of Lucina)
Cynthia (Potential sibling of Lucina)
Kjelle (Potential sibling of Lucina)
Brady (Potential sibling of Lucina)
Inigo (Potential sibling of Lucina)
Liquid Snake (Brother! of Snake)
Solidus Snake (Bother of Snake)
Mist (Ike's sister)
Claus (Lucas' brother)
Aryll (Toon Link's Sister)
Roll (Megaman's Sister)
Lissa (Chrom's sister)
Emmeryn (Chrom's sister)
Lilith (Corrin's sister)
Ryoma (Step-brother of Corrin)
Hinoka (Step-sister of Corrin)
Takumi (Step-brother of Corrin)
Sakura (step-sister of Corrin)
Digby (Brother of Isabelle)
Tootie (Banjo's sister)
Andy Bogard (Terry's Brother)

Point out if I missed anyone
 
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Garteam

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Canada, eh?
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Out of curiosity, who does everyone think is the more likely Namco rep, Heihachi or Lloyd? Likewise, who does everyone personally want more?
 

Michael the Spikester

Smash Obsessed
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Out of curiosity, who does everyone think is the more likely Namco rep, Heihachi or Lloyd? Likewise, who does everyone personally want more?
Personally thinking Lloyd given his demand and Sakurai's statement regarding his legacy on the GameCube and "Who else but Lloyd" when it comes to Tales.

As for an Namco rep I'd like Nightmare.
 

osby

Smash Obsessed
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Messages
23,515
Yeah, I can't say I see Chrom returning. Roy might return due to Smash fan favoritism, and Lucina might stay too because of how little dev time she takes up as well as being a popular character among FE fans. I don't think Corrin or Byleth would return either, which is unfortunate, because they have unique movesets. Robin might stay since they've become a pretty well-liked character both within the Smash and FE community. Ike might stay too—he's also a pretty popular character.

Then again, who knows. Fire Emblem could continue to grow in sales enough to warrant a decently sized roster number rather than being cut down to 1-2 characters. It could also start to flop again after Fire Emblem Three Houses. Only time will tell.
It's hard to justify cutting FE roster down to Star Fox/Earthbound levels even if the next game isn't amazing.

Online Smash fans might have a hate boner for it but it doesn't change that the series is doing great for almost a decade now.
 

King Sonnn DeDeDoo

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Out of curiosity, who does everyone think is the more likely Namco rep, Heihachi or Lloyd? Likewise, who does everyone personally want more?
I'm personally rather skeptical of Heihachi, I actually predict us getting a spirit event for Tekken in the future.

Honestly, I'd rather have Heihachi over Lloyd, I think a villainous and badass grandpa would be more stylistically unique than what Lloyd can offer.
 

Lamperouge

Drifting Soul
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Messages
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Yeah, I can't say I see Chrom returning. Roy might return due to Smash fan favoritism, and Lucina might stay too because of how little dev time she takes up as well as being a popular character among FE fans. I don't think Corrin or Byleth would return either, which is unfortunate, because they have unique movesets. Robin might stay since they've become a pretty well-liked character both within the Smash and FE community. Ike might stay too—he's also a pretty popular character.

Then again, who knows. Fire Emblem could continue to grow in sales enough to warrant a decently sized roster number rather than being cut down to 1-2 characters. It could also start to flop again after Fire Emblem Three Houses. Only time will tell.
I don't think Byleth is in danger of being cut since Three Houses was a huge success and is often considered to be one of the best games in the series.
 

Wunderwaft

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Out of curiosity, who does everyone think is the more likely Namco rep, Heihachi or Lloyd? Likewise, who does everyone personally want more?
I think Heihachi is more likely. I believe the disappearance of Heihachi's mii costume is a bigger mystery than Lloyd's since there was an opportunity to show it at Terry's presentation with the rest of the fighting game mii costumes, and we know it wasn't saved for another Namco rep since FP5 was Byleth. The biggest boon to Heihachi's chances in my opinion is that he was formerly considered by Sakurai before dropping him in favor of Pac-Man, as far as we know Heihachi is the only Namco character we know was planned to be playable.

Oh and for who I prefer the most, it's Heihachi. I really like Tekken and I feel like Heihachi has more to offer than Lloyd, especially if the limb system is implemented in some form in Smash just like how this moveset video has shown.
 
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MooMew64

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I don't really think anyone's in danger of being cut because they're probably just gonna port Ultimate in 3-5 more years once the next version of the Switch comes out.
 

osby

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Out of curiosity, who does everyone think is the more likely Namco rep, Heihachi or Lloyd? Likewise, who does everyone personally want more?
I think Tekken has an edge over Tales of but it might my bias talking.

Heihachi would be great in Smash for his personality alone.
 
D

Deleted member

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I think Tekken has an edge over Tales of but it might my bias talking.

Heihachi would be great in Smash for his personality alone.
I just see his final Smash being tying the oponent to a bomb rocket.

I need to see that becoming real in Smash.
 

MooMew64

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I dont want either of them, I want Yuri
Yeah pretty much just this for me.

Like, I'd take Lloyd, but Yuri is just such a cool guy, and he's from one of my all time favorite games, so I'd be overjoyed to see him get in.

Heihachi would actually bum me out a bit, TBH. Like, I don't hate the idea, but I'm just not into seeing fighting game characters in Smash.
 

Goombaic

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Messages
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There's a topic on the gamefaqs board that I'd like to answer, but I'd like to hear others' answers first.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/78360903#qp

"Specifics or how broadly you choose to interpret it are up to you.
Archer- Decidueye
Athlete- The Ring Fit Trainer
Baby- Bandana Waddle Dee: Everyone in Kirby is baby.
Cowboy- John Marston
Demon- Nightmare
Ghost- Hollow Knight? It's a bit of a stretch.
Ginger- Weird category. Uh, Arle Nadja I guess.
Humanoid alien- The Arbiter as a Master Chief echo.
Living sword- Lora and Jin: At least one half is a living sword.
Pirate- Tetra She would be nothing like Sheik at all.
Samurai- Mitsurugi
Shapeshifter- Thanatos
Sibling to someone on the existing roster- Proto Man
Time traveler- Crash Bandicoot
Witch / Wizard- KAMEK LET'S GO MAGIKOOPA GANG
 
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Lamperouge

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I don't really think anyone's in danger of being cut because they're probably just gonna port Ultimate in 3-5 more years once the next version of the Switch comes out.
Wouldn't they have to renegotiate with third parties even if the next Smash is just a port? There's always the possibility that one of the companies wouldn't be willing to play ball with their characters again.
 
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Us3inMN

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There's a topic on the gamefaqs board that I'd like to answer, but I'd like to hear others' answers first.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/78360903#qp

"Specifics or how broadly you choose to interpret it are up to you.
Archer - Lara Croft (Tomb Raider series)
Athlete - Either Ring Fit Trainer (Ring Fit Adventure) or another Punch-Out!! rep
Baby - Does Chibi-Amateratsu (Okami series) count?
Cowboy - Erron Black (Mortal Kombat series)
Demon - Pyramid Head (Silent Hill 2)
Ghost - Gengar (Pokemon something & other)
Ginger - Madeline (Celeste) or Aloy (Horizon: Zero Dawn)
Humanoid alien - Crypto (Destroy All Humans! series)
Living sword - I guess the SoulCaliber thingy?
Pirate - Captain Kenway (Assassin's Creed IV: Black Flag)
Samurai - Wandering Samurai (Rhythm Heaven series)
Shapeshifter - Shantae (Shantae series)
Sibling to someone on the existing roster - I don't know, isn't there an Earthbound person you could use?
Time traveler - The Prince (Prince of Persia series)
Witch / Wizard - The Wizard 101 guy, just because it would be funny
 

Evil Trapezium

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Out of curiosity, who does everyone think is the more likely Namco rep, Heihachi or Lloyd? Likewise, who does everyone personally want more?
I'd rather have Jin Kazama over Heihachi and Lloyd is meh. I don't see either of them being likely considering how little Namco involves their characters into the game. The only reason Pac-Man is even in the game is because from what I remember, he was a request from Shigeru Miyamoto or something like that.
 
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