Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Guybrush20X6]

Two days until pack 5 releases.

I wonder if someone has already made a working Cuphead stage in stage builder.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Speaking of Geno, someone in one of my Discord servers was asking who owned him; Nintendo or Square. I made a joke that he's "the child neither parent wanted custody of in the divorce", and someone else got ****in' PISSED at me and started ranting about how the only reason Geno hasn't appeared in anything since Mario RPG is because Square loves him soooooo much, that they refuse to let anyone else use him, or let him appear in anything ever again.

I hope I'm not alone in thinking that makes no sense.

Nope. Smash fans and Super Mario RPG fans are the only people who care about him at this point.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Speaking of Geno, someone in one of my Discord servers was asking who owned him; Nintendo or Square. I made a joke that he's "the child neither parent wanted custody of in the divorce", and someone else got ****in' PISSED at me and started ranting about how the only reason Geno hasn't appeared in anything since Mario RPG is because Square loves him soooooo much, that they refuse to let anyone else use him, or let him appear in anything ever again.

I hope I'm not alone in thinking that makes no sense.

Yeah, that doesn't make a lick of sense

 

[Cosmic77]

Speaking of Geno, someone in one of my Discord servers was asking who owned him; Nintendo or Square. I made a joke that he's "the child neither parent wanted custody of in the divorce", and someone else got ****in' PISSED at me and started ranting about how the only reason Geno hasn't appeared in anything since Mario RPG is because Square loves him soooooo much, that they refuse to let anyone else use him, or let him appear in anything ever again.

I hope I'm not alone in thinking that makes no sense.

Geno has become that one character who you want to steer clear of if you don't see the appeal.

There was a person on Twitter who asked why people hated Geno. I told him that people may be perfectly fine with Geno as a character, but might not feel like he's someone who should be in Smash due to how obscure and inactive he's been. My response was several Geno supporters going on a rant about how, "That's the only arguement people have," and "Geno supporters are always the butt of the joke."

The fanbase is becoming increasingly aggressive, and I just know there's gonna be a massive riot if Geno's Mii Costume returns or Fighter #11 isn't Geno.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Why would they be spamming Harada about Sora?

I think it's more in line with what TheCJBrine said. Several character accounts on twitter (including one for Sora, I think that's why I remembered that one) tagged Harada in a mass post, so he answered with that.

Also, regarding general disconfirmations coming from devs... Kirkhope is still the lone exception. Among all the other ones that were disconfirmed for CP5, it was the only one that ended up being a lie, unlike the ones for Sora, Dante, Travis and Chief.

So... yeah, if a dev says a character isn't in, there's no real precedent to believe they're lying.

 

[Lamperouge]

Speaking of Geno, someone in one of my Discord servers was asking who owned him; Nintendo or Square. I made a joke that he's "the child neither parent wanted custody of in the divorce", and someone else got ****in' PISSED at me and started ranting about how the only reason Geno hasn't appeared in anything since Mario RPG is because Square loves him soooooo much, that they refuse to let anyone else use him, or let him appear in anything ever again.

I hope I'm not alone in thinking that makes no sense.

I'm sorry that you're too much of a Geno hater to see the logic in his words.

Spoiler

/s

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Yeah, I can't say I see Chrom returning. Roy might return due to Smash fan favoritism, and Lucina might stay too because of how little dev time she takes up as well as being a popular character among FE fans. I don't think Corrin or Byleth would return either, which is unfortunate, because they have unique movesets. Robin might stay since they've become a pretty well-liked character both within the Smash and FE community. Ike might stay too—he's also a pretty popular character.

Then again, who knows. Fire Emblem could continue to grow in sales enough to warrant a decently sized roster number rather than being cut down to 1-2 characters. It could also start to flop again after Fire Emblem Three Houses. Only time will tell.

nah, all the Fire Emblem characters will stay in the next Smash game. At this rate, FE might end up truly becoming one of Nintendo‘s top tier franchises, meaning they'll be more likely to keep their current cast of fighters

 

[Michael the Spikester]

May as well make an Fire Emblem fighting game at this point if there's so many characters to choose from. Kinda surprised that has yet to happen. ;P

 

[Wunderwaft]

Proper resource management sounds like something that's missing. Which is probably why I wrote Gordon's moveset with that in mind.

I always imagined Gordon to be a mix between a grappler and a zoner. I figured someone like him would bring something fresh to the grappler archetype since he wields the gravity gun.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I really can't understand how Heihachi can be difficult when we've got characters like

He's also a fighting game character. It should be easy and PSASBR shows he can work. Besides this was 7 years ago Sakurai could had found a way to make Heihachi work.

 

[Icedragonadam]

I really can't understand how Heihachi can be difficult when we've got characters like

He's also a fighting game character. It should be easy and PSASBR shows he can work. Besides this was 7 years ago Sakurai could had found a way to make Heihachi work.

Heihachi is different compared to them. Characters like Villager, Ridley etc don't have the technical limitations Heihachi has. And Sakurai is a man of detail. He wants the guest characters to be faithful as possible, he's not going to settle for a botched job. This is the same man willing to cut Pac-Man if his Ghostly Adventures design was used.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Heihachi is different compared to them. Characters like Villager, Ridley etc don't have the technical limitations Heihachi has. And Sakurai is a man of detail. He wants the guest characters to be faithful as possible, he's not going to settle for a botched job. This is the same man willing to cut Pac-Man if his Ghostly Adventures design was used.

And yet we've got characters likeand

All fighting game characters like Heihachi. And again PSASBR.

 

[TheCJBrine]

As a Geno fan, I know there are some other fans that can take things too far. To be fair, though, there are also a lot of people who harass Geno fans or crap on them just for liking Geno/wanting him in Smash, even if they’re polite or reasonable. Heck, it happened to someone who wanted to see Geno in Mario Kart and didn’t mention Smash at all (yet Smash was why they were bothered). This also happens to fans of other characters (as a Steve fan, it’s been very annoying in the past), but this seems a bit more common for Geno fans for some reason.

 

[Rangez]

We can talk about characters we want because we like their games and whatnot, but I don't see many people talk about what kind of mechanics and archetypes they want to see the most in Smash. I feel like this discussion can be useful in realizing the potential of many characters we never realized had it in them.

Unfortunately no, Smash speculation always has to be about "tHIs sErIEs NeEDs mOrE rePs" or "sAKurAi iS sO bIAS tO X, SaKURai HAtes Y" rather than looking for characters with interesting moveset potential.

 

[KniteBlargh]

Because of Tekken's side-stepping mechanic, I'm just imagining Heihachi having crazy intended z-axis shenanigans, and it is both terrifying and hysterical to me at the same time.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Because of Tekken's side-stepping mechanic, I'm just imagining Heihachi having crazy intended z-axis shenanigans, and it is both terrifying and hysterical to me at the same time.

Whelp guess Soulcalibur's out of the running too if that's the case.

 

[KniteBlargh]

Whelp guess Soulcalibur's out of the running too if that's the case.

??? I wasn't saying either of them were out of the running. I'm sorry if it came off that way.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

??? I wasn't saying either of them were out of the running. I'm sorry if it came off that way.

My bad. I misinterpreted your post of why Sakurai considered Heihachi difficult.

 

[Wunderwaft]

Because of Tekken's side-stepping mechanic, I'm just imagining Heihachi having crazy intended z-axis shenanigans, and it is both terrifying and hysterical to me at the same time.

I like the idea of giving him a long spot dodge that can be held down as an attempt to replicate the side stepping in Tekken.

 

[Icedragonadam]

And yet we've got characters likeand

All fighting game characters like Heihachi. And again PSASBR.

Street Fighter and SNK games are 2D Fighting Game characters. Implementing their mechanics is a far simpler job to do. Implementing 3D movements to Smash is really not that simple. It's why I see Sol or Ragna being the next Fighting Game character instead.

 

[Wigglerman]

I thought the biggest technical issue for a Tekken character was the four limb fighting mechanics that can't really be replicated in Smash. Not unless they opted to really break the control scheme but I don't know how they could or would. Simply not enough button functions have been programmed into Smash to account for such extra attacks. Unless they forgo a lot of specials to have the specials function as different attacks for the combos or something. Which I doubt would go over well.

Edit: though a Tekken character having unique 'while rising' type moves for mix ups and such would be pretty cool, all the various 'stance' moves that Tekken thrives on (While standing, while crouched, while rising, etc)

 

[Curious Villager]

Because of Tekken's side-stepping mechanic, I'm just imagining Heihachi having crazy intended z-axis shenanigans, and it is both terrifying and hysterical to me at the same time.

I do wonder if there is full collisions throughout the entire stages boundaries or just the X and Y axis that characters interact with?

I do know the spiral mountain stage does have full collisions as evidenced with the Inklings ink sticking around whenever the stage rotates and all.

 

[Lacrimosa]

Any deconfirmation/leaks or similar?

 

[Opossum]

Any deconfirmation/leaks or similar?

Nothing that I know of besides the Doomguy thing.

 

[Wunderwaft]

I thought the biggest technical issue for a Tekken character was the four limb fighting mechanics that can't really be replicated in Smash. Not unless they opted to really break the control scheme but I don't know how they could or would. Simply not enough button functions have been programmed into Smash to account for such extra attacks. Unless they forgo a lot of specials to have the specials function as different attacks for the combos or something. Which I doubt would go over well.

Edit: though a Tekken character having unique 'while rising' type moves for mix ups and such would be pretty cool, all the various 'stance' moves that Tekken thrives on (While standing, while crouched, while rising, etc)

In regards to the limb mechanics, while it's not possible to completely replicate the four button system, it's possible to make a system that is similair to it in function. I'm gonna post FeliciaFan's moveset once again because he did a really good job with it and it kind of explains every question someone might have in how Heihachi and Tekken mechanics could be implemented in Smash.

 

[MisterMike]

As a Geno fan, I know there are some other fans that can take things too far. To be fair, though, there are also a lot of people who harass Geno fans or crap on them just for liking Geno/wanting him in Smash, even if they’re polite or reasonable. Heck, it happened to someone who wanted to see Geno in Mario Kart and didn’t mention Smash at all (yet Smash was why they were bothered). This also happens to fans of other characters (as a Steve fan, it’s been very annoying in the past), but this seems a bit more common for Geno fans for some reason.

I think the reason why that is is because of his overall status compared to other NEVER EVER characters. While the likes of King K. Rool, Ridley and Banjo have gotten hate in the past, mostly as a reactionary counter to their immense popularity among Smash fans, nobody could really deny that they were somewhat significant with regards to gaming at large. Ridley and K. Rool are the main antagonists of two of Nintendo's most popular franchises, whereas the Banjo-Kazooie series is still incredibly popular even today, with even more casual gamers at least knowing of it.

Geno and Super Mario RPG don't really compare in these departments. While Geno is a popular request, he's not significant to gaming as a whole like Ridley or K. Rool are, and while Super Mario RPG is fondly remembered by older Nintendo fans, it's not to the degree that Banjo-Kazooie is, where most casuals would recognize it off-handedly without having actually played it. As a result, people feel that Geno's immense popularity among Smash fans is largely undeserved, and are much more likely to react more harshly when he's brought up in speculation talks. It doesn't help that most everyone who is critical of Geno have their own characters who they'd rather see get in over him, which definitely sucks.

At least, that's what I've gathered from all I've seen, so maybe I'm wrong about this.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

And yet Soulcalibur isn't an issue? I hear no one saying they have the same problem despite being an 3D fighting game.

 

[Schnee117]

There's a topic on the gamefaqs board that I'd like to answer, but I'd like to hear others' answers first.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/78360903#qp

"Specifics or how broadly you choose to interpret it are up to you.

Archer
Athlete
Baby
Cowboy
Demon
Ghost
Ginger
Humanoid alien
Living sword
Pirate
Samurai
Shapeshifter
Sibling to someone on the existing roster
Time traveler
Witch / Wizard "

Archer - Nameless (Fate)
Athlete - Geese Howard (Fatal Fury/KoF)
Baby - Munchlax (Pokemon)
Cowboy - Erron Black (Mortal Kombat)
Demon - Dante (DMC)
Ghost - Hisako (Killer Instinct)
Ginger - Lilith (Borderlands)
Humanoid alien - Arbiter (Halo)
Living sword - Nightmare (Soul Calibur)
Pirate - Edward Kenway (Assassin's Creed)
Samurai - Jetstream Sam (Metal Gear)
Shapeshifter - Dizzy (Guilty Gear)
Sibling to someone on the existing roster - Liquid Snake (Metal Gear)
Time traveler - Grovyle (Pokemon)
Witch / Wizard - Jeanne (Bayonetta)

 

[perfectchaos83]

And yet we've got characters likeand

All fighting game characters like Heihachi. And again PSASBR.

Tekken's different, Sakurai is a man of detail and it especially shows in Ryu, Ken's and Terry's movesets. The main issue Tekken has, compared to the other two fighting series, is each button controls a limb and the 3D space Tekken uses. It's something that would be hard as hell to properly integrate to Smash.

I don't think PSASBR is a good counter, mainly because it lacks the detail Sakurai puts into characters.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

And yet Soulcalibur isn't an issue? I hear no one saying they have the same problem despite being an 3D fighting game.

As far as I know, Soul Calibur doesn't have a limb mechanic to worry about so it'd be much easier for it to stay true to it's roots unlike Tekken.

 

[Deleted member]

Any deconfirmation/leaks or similar?

There hasn't been any to be honest. No news amd no prominent leakers said anything

 

[Animegamingnerd]

Speaking of Geno, someone in one of my Discord servers was asking who owned him; Nintendo or Square. I made a joke that he's "the child neither parent wanted custody of in the divorce", and someone else got ****in' PISSED at me and started ranting about how the only reason Geno hasn't appeared in anything since Mario RPG is because Square loves him soooooo much, that they refuse to let anyone else use him, or let him appear in anything ever again.

I hope I'm not alone in thinking that makes no sense.

LMFAO Geno fans continue to be great clowns.

The fanbase is becoming increasingly aggressive, and I just know there's gonna be a massive riot if Geno's Mii Costume returns or Fighter #11 isn't Geno.

Imagine if we don't get it back and Geno isn't among the 6 remaining DLC's.

 

[Deleted member]

Speaking of Geno, someone in one of my Discord servers was asking who owned him; Nintendo or Square. I made a joke that he's "the child neither parent wanted custody of in the divorce", and someone else got ****in' PISSED at me and started ranting about how the only reason Geno hasn't appeared in anything since Mario RPG is because Square loves him soooooo much, that they refuse to let anyone else use him, or let him appear in anything ever again.

I hope I'm not alone in thinking that makes no sense.

OMG That is savage.

 

[Nemuresu]

I think some people here are overestimating how complicated Heihachi is from a technical standpoint. Some people want to say how accurate our three fighting game characters are, but they're forgetting those aren't straight copy-pastes from other games.

All of them had to be adapted so they could use many moves with just two attack buttons when they come from games that use four to six, and in Terry's case, he can't even use commands for all of his specials (see Power Wave for an instance), and had to get a brand-new attack just to have an Up-air.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

So who does everyone think is the most likely fighting game character at this point?

Scorpion? Sol Badguy? Ragna? Nightmare? Heihachi? Assuming one is among the remaining 6.

I'm inclined to believe Heihachi but hoping Nightmare.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

I think it's more in line with what TheCJBrine said. Several character accounts on twitter (including one for Sora, I think that's why I remembered that one) tagged Harada in a mass post, so he answered with that.

Also, regarding general disconfirmations coming from devs... Kirkhope is still the lone exception. Among all the other ones that were disconfirmed for CP5, it was the only one that ended up being a lie, unlike the ones for Sora, Dante, Travis and Chief.

So... yeah, if a dev says a character isn't in, there's no real precedent to believe they're lying.

To be fair, most of those disconfirms take place with a good window between them and the November 2019 cutoff date for Fighters Pass 2. I certainly wouldn't count out any of those characters.

So who does everyone think is the most likely fighting game character at this point?

Scorpion? Sol Badguy? Ragna? Nightmare? Heihachi? Assuming one is among the remaining 6.

I'm inclined to believe Heihachi but hoping Nightmare.

At this point it's Sol or nothing imo.

Even then I honestly doubt his chances.

 

[CodakTheWarrior]

So I’ve been mega sick the past 2 days and as such have been sleeping quite a bit, and while doing so I weirdly enough had a dream about three characters getting in that I had pretty much never considered before or at least for this next pass, and they are three characters which are not widely speculated atm; Jibanyan, Euden, and Scorpion.

thoughts on these three?

 

[perfectchaos83]

So who does everyone think is the most likely fighting game character at this point?

Scorpion? Sol Badguy? Ragna? Nightmare? Heihachi? Assuming one is among the remaining 6.

I'm inclined to believe Heihachi but hoping Nightmare.

I'm thinking Sol or Ragna.

 

[SNEKeater]

So who does everyone think is the most likely fighting game character at this point?

Scorpion? Sol Badguy? Ragna? Nightmare? Heihachi? Assuming one is among the remaining 6.

I'm inclined to believe Heihachi but hoping Nightmare.

I know I'm a bit biased, but I think it's between Heihachi and an ArcSys fighting character. The first one is the most likely one for me, but if Sakurai keeps struggling to implement him correctly then I think Sakurai would go with Sol or Ragna.
Nightmare is a cool option as well. But idk if he would happen before Heihachi, honestly. It sounds strange to me.

 

[Icedragonadam]

Euden's probably has the best chance for a 1st party character, aside from any character from an upcoming game this year.

And Sol is IMO the next fighting game character since he doesn't any major obstacles compared to Tekken or Mortal Kombat.