Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Al-kīmiyā']

How about Byleth again, but with a full whipsword moveset?

 

[Shroob]

Even so, as someone who didn't buy the pass, I STILL think that it's dumb for business to not end the pass with a bang. Because it dissuades people like me from getting the second one, now that I've caught on to their scheme, where they drop a couple bombs at the beginning, only to toss in some tripe towards the end.

If they weren't like this, I'd be more likely to get the pass. I just would. But that's just me.

Why do you think they showed off Ridley and K.Rool super early into Ultimate's reveal schedule and save characters like Isabelle and Incineroar for later?


Reveal the "HUGE" characters first that all the fanboys want, save the "Oh okay" characters for later.


I love Incineroar, but if he was revealed at E3 instead of RIdley, sure, there would be a ton of presales, but not NEARLY as many as "OHMAHGAWDRIDLEYYYYY"


This isn't anything special to the DLC, they do it for the base game too. Why would you put your weakest cards first? You want the money asap.

 

[TerminatorLOL]

Horror would’ve been a good choice too. But Resident Evil would be the only viable choice & that ship seems to have sailed.

I can think of another option.

 

[Gentlepanda]

Why would you put your weakest cards first? You want the money asap.

"sakurai always ends on a high," says fanbase who remember bayonetta but forget about olimar/wolf, shulk/duck hunt dog, and incineroar/piranha plant

 

[Deleted member]

How about Byleth again, but with a full whipsword moveset?

nah, weapon master is a cool as hell moveset idea and also kinda reps what makes what makes 3h unique compared to other fe titles- every unit and class being able to use every weapon and such

 

[Zeox]

Sakurai have us Ridley, K. Rool, the belmonts and even Banjo, so if he wants to add another Fire Emblem, well, we shouldn't complain that much, and is not like he's forcing you to buy it and pay for it, and he warn everyone when the pass was announced to only buy it under your own risk and if you are sure that you will be ok with whatever they release.
In other news, here's a diagram I found about what is wrong with Byleth (or what is wrong for the author of the diagram):

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

nah, weapon master is a cool as hell moveset idea and also kinda reps what makes what makes 3h unique compared to other fe titles- every unit and class being able to use every weapon and such

The spear is slow. It might as well be the same weapon as the axe.

 

[GuiltyGyarados]

This isn't anything special to the DLC, they do it for the base game too. Why would you put your weakest cards first? You want the money asap.

I just don't think it would've made a real difference. It's not money they're getting "asap," it's money they would've gotten at the same time anyway. They secure more people earlier, but if anything, that just gives them plenty of time to cancel (which I did).

 

[Shroob]

I just don't think it would've made a real difference. It's not money they're getting "asap," it's money they would've gotten at the same time anyway. They secure more people earlier, but if anything, that just gives them plenty of time to cancel (which I did).

Reveal Isabelle at E3

"Oh, an Animal Crossing Character.... well I guess..."

Reveal Ridley at E3

"TAKE MY MONEY I'LL BUY THREE COPIES"

 

[Deleted member]

I've been seeing people theorize that Byleth may have not been intended for FP5 cause of how heavy 3rd Parties have been in Vol 1.

I don't think it holds any merits, but I'm sure as **** that whoever's FP6 will make people believe even more with that theory depending on who it is.

 

[Will]

the future..
View attachment 258320

****ing finally, dorte is a gaming icon

 

[SKX31]

Here's the thing, there was no way to know Three Houses was going to be a good game a year prior to it's release. This was a risky choice and if Three Houses turned out to be a bad game then this would've backfired immensely on Sakurai and Nintendo.

It was risky, yes, but not without precedence or strategy.

The favoritism comes from Sakurai being a fanboy (seriously he counted all games in binary) and Nintendo smelling increasing amounts of $$$ with each game / Smash character. Marth / Roy gave Nintendo the confidence to start localizing FE elsewhere -> Ike's games got more resources and he got into Brawl -> Awakening got even more and turned out to be FE's biggest game (until 3H) etc.

Really, it's an escalating snowball. And sure, 3H was a major risk. But if enough people downloaded Corrin (which, like it or not, happened) then Nintendo has more confidence to give 3H even bigger production values, market it as one of Nintendo's highlight games last year... and thus Smash seems like a natural fit. Again, it was a major risk, but one Nintendo was still ready to take.

 

[Will]

"sakurai always ends on a high," says fanbase who remember bayonetta but forget about olimar/wolf, shulk/duck hunt dog, and incineroar/piranha plant

THEY ALWAYS FORGET

WHY DO THEY ALWAYS FORGET

IT'S NEVER A HYPE ENDING

 

[GuiltyGyarados]

Reveal Isabelle at E3

"Oh, an Animal Crossing Character.... well I guess..."

Reveal Ridley at E3

"TAKE MY MONEY I'LL BUY THREE COPIES"

You act like Ridley was the only thing they announced at E3, and that word wouldn't have spread around REALLY FAST were he to be revealed elsewhere.

E3 is fading away anyway. Less people care about it every year. That's why so many big studios don't even have showcases there anymore.

 

[Twin Shot]

I believe one of the next 6 will very well be an Assassins Creed protagonist.

Wonder why else they would announce “Smash x Altiar” instead of Smash x Assassins Creed (franchise) like we have seen in every other instance.

 

[Shroob]

You act like Ridley was the only thing they announced at E3, and that word wouldn't have spread around REALLY FAST were he to be revealed elsewhere.

E3 is fading away anyway. Less people care about it every year. That's why so many big studios don't even have showcases there anymore.

He wasn't

But EVERY SMASH CHARACTER

103 stages

over 800 music tracks


and arguably the truly most wanted fighter period on top of all that?


There's a reason E32018 was a hell of a show for Smash, Ridley was the ultimate cherry on top. If you didn't run out and pre-order, then K.Rool got you 2 months later.


Nintendo is a business, they make business decisions, and these are exactly things a business does. Why is that such a shock?

 

[osby]

I believe one of the next 6 will very well be an Assassins Creed protagonist.

Wonder why else they would announce “Smash x Altiar” instead of Smash x Assassins Creed (franchise) like we have seen in every other instance.

Japanese version had the franchise's name.

English version probably changed that because of recent political events.

 

[Schnee117]

I believe one of the next 6 will very well be an Assassins Creed protagonist.

Wonder why else they would announce “Smash x Altiar” instead of Smash x Assassins Creed (franchise) like we have seen in every other instance.

It's Smash x Assassin's Creed outside of NA

 

[Kokiden]

To be fair, Byleth was chosen to be part of the fighters pass like a year before his game came out. There was no way to know that the game was going to be a success and loved by fans. Byleth was chosen for promotional purposes and not because his game was good.

It’s like I said earlier, it’s a business arrangement between Nintendo/Sakurai and the FE guys.

It’s working out well for both parties, in that Sakurai gets to support his favourite series, and FE get more reps / exposure in Smash.

Win - win for both business wise, and it’s an arrangement that’s going to continue.

They’re probably friends in real life too, so it’s a multi layered mutually beneficially deal from the looks of things.

I can’t see how anyone can deny this, especially since Sakurai himself said he got an early copy of the game to form ideas on how best to represent Byleth in Smash.

I’m coming from a neutral / observational POV so no one accuse me of being a hater / fan girl please

 

[GuiltyGyarados]

"sakurai always ends on a high," says fanbase who remember bayonetta but forget about olimar/wolf, shulk/duck hunt dog, and incineroar/piranha plant

Bayonetta was the lowest of all lows.

Wolf/Olimar was a high.
Duck Hunt was a high.
Plant was a high.

Why is that such a shock?

Because it's an objectively bad business decision to play all your best cards in one conference. It just is.

If they did it the other way, they wouldn't have pissed off half their fanbase.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Wow people are still arguing about Byleth. Why don't people just take that energy and use it for something else

 

[Shroob]

Bayonetta was the lowest of all lows.

Wolf/Olimar was a high.
Duck Hunt was a high.
Plant was a high.

Because it's an objectively bad business decision to play all your best cards in one conference. It just is.

And yet Ultimate is the best selling game in the series, breaking sales records on release.


So, you might think it is, but someone's doing something right over in the marketing team.


And another thing:


Pre-order numbers make the investors happy.

Happy investors

Happy Nintendo.

 

[Deleted member]

6 more characters with the final release date being December 2021. I'd guess that means we're probably getting 3 this year and 3 next year. Being that slow a schedule, they're either planned to be really detailed or they're merely concepts on paper at this point and no work has actually been done yet on them.

I'm guessing we'll get Fighter Pass 2, Character 1 sometime during E3 (possibly during it), another in October, and then the last for this year in December. In any case, its going to be a looooooooooooong time till the next one. With no clues left to really go on, its time to take a break from here. I'll be back sometime in April or May to see if rumors have started to pop up.

 

[Will]

Bayonetta was the lowest of all lows.
Plant was a high.

I'll give it credit: it's a take I've never heard of.

 

[GuiltyGyarados]

And yet Ultimate is the best selling game in the series, breaking sales records on release.

It was always destined to be that anyway. No one's surprised by that.

But pissing off fans is never good. Ever. Especially when it's a game that's specifically about... not doing that.

 

[Shroob]

It was always destined to be that anyway. No one's surprised by that.

But pissing off fans is never good. Ever.

And I'm going to need numbers on these pissed off fans.


Because for the most part, aside from you two, a couple reddit posts occasionally, and 4chan being 4chan, I'm not seeing this ocean of enraged fans that people keep bringing up.


Smash just seems like Smash to me, nothing changes.

 

[Saelind Genesis]

Wow people are still arguing about Byleth. Why don't people just take that energy and use it for something else

Ikr

Imagine being this salty about something you didn't even buy that you have to make an account and cry to strangers on the Internet whilst throwing the word "objectively" a lot

 

[3BitSaurus]

3 Houses' actual quality or reception is irrelevant because Sakurai decided to include Byleth a year before his game even released.

Tbh, this is the one thing that prevents me from giving Byleth more than 6/10 even if I like their content more than most other FE characters.

I dunno. The notion of a character being picked for "the greatest celebration of gaming" before their game even releases kinda... irks me.

That said... I feel like I dodged two bullets for this FP, first with Banjo, now with Byleth. So I'll probably hold back on preordering season 2 this time around, at least until 2 or 3 characters are revealed.

 

[ProfPeanut]

If they did it the other way, they wouldn't have pissed off half their fanbase..

Byleth being revealed in TGA or in February 2019 would've been far more incendiary. They'd precede both Banjo and their game's launch.

Any situation where Byleth shows up before Three House' release is a worse decision, really.

 

[TwiceEXE]

6 more characters with the final release date being December 2021. I'd guess that means we're probably getting 3 this year and 3 next year. Being that slow a schedule, they're either planned to be really detailed or they're merely concepts on paper at this point and no work has actually been done yet on them.

I'm guessing we'll get Fighter Pass 2, Character 1 sometime during E3 (possibly during it), another in October, and then the last for this year in December. In any case, its going to be a looooooooooooong time till the next one. With no clues left to really go on, its time to take a break from here. I'll be back sometime in April or May to see if rumors have started to pop up.

And based on the lack of leaks since Banjo (the Terry screw-up excused), I doubt we will get much new info before FP6 is revealed. I'll be taking a break as well.

 

[GuiltyGyarados]

And I'm going to need numbers on these pissed off fans.

60,000 dislikes and counting, and that's just the people who bothered to click on that button. Yes, the likes outnumber the dislikes, but that doesn't eliminate those who are fed up with this crap.

 

[Shroob]

60,000 dislikes and counting, and that's just the people who bothered to click on that button. Yes, the likes outnumber the dislikes, but that doesn't eliminate those who are fed up with this crap.

Oh no, people are mad about a character that's DLC.


We've been talking about the base game this whole time. If you can't give me numbers for the BASE game, then you don't got a point. DLC is gonna do what it does, and I stand by my stance that people are being whiny of Byleth.

 

[Sari]

Me watching people argue over a video game character's inclusion in an E10+ party game for hours on:

Just to be clear I don't think there's anything wrong with being disappointed over Byleth being added, but damn it seems like their inclusion legit ruined some people's lives or something.

 

[osby]

Byleth being revealed in TGA or in February 2019 would've been far more incendiary. They'd precede both Banjo and their game's launch.

Any situation where Byleth shows up before Three House' release is a worse decision, really.

Yeah, now that people gave Three Houses a chance, it has far more fans than haters.

There's a reason why so many people are genuinely happy/OK with Byleth.

 

[Kokiden]

So... any guesses on when the next announcement will be made?

I’d like to say February, but we’ll probably get something in April or May.

 

[PsychoJosh]

Okay, I understand your criticism of Ultimate better now, this makes a lot of sense. Ultimate is definitely designed to be a refinement of the previous games, and doesn't really bring anything new in terms of mechanics or modes. But I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. Feature bloat can start to bog down game series as they go on, and one of the major appeals of Smash is its simplicity and accessibility. And there has been some effort to give individual characters unique mechanics in their movesets in the last 2 games, however minor they are.

New modes would have been good, but then it becomes a question of development resources. They focused on packing in as many characters as possible instead and relying on the core Smash mode. And you can justifiably criticize that choice, but the hard thing about fan criticism is that separate groups of fans will criticize either approach. If we had an extra game mode but no or few new characters, a whole bunch of fans would be crying out about the lack of new characters. So developers need to make a judgement on which criticism is justified, and I think choosing to keep the mechanics the same and increasing character count was the right call. Even if I would like more game modes (maybe we should get a DLC game mode pack instead of more characters at this point).

I'm only talking about the base game here. I do think the Byleth pick is blatantly ignoring justifiable fan criticism, with that jab at "another sword fighter".

And yes, the online modes are atrocious and I'd rather they fix that before adding any new characters. That's by far the biggest flaw of the game, and one that is absolutely not justifiable.

You take what you can get I guess. I've always preferred smaller and more laser-focused games than big dream match setpieces. While they did give the DLC characters unique new mechanics, I don't feel it's the same as having a mechanical overhaul that Smash is starting to desperately need. The problem with Smash is that it's focused on fanservice to its own detriment, going for quantity over quality, and not doing any major shake-ups to the core mechanics for the sake of having it be this massive dream match game. There's too little for the characters to do, having everyone use the exact same control scheme for movesets is restrictive, we don't get to see the characters interact in any way outside of fighting (a personal pet peeve of mine), and everyone is fundamentally similar in that they all dodge and move the same way - nobody has any real game-changing abilities that force the opponents to behave differently. Everyone uses their abilities the exact same way every time, never needing to get creative.

I know that accessibility is a big deal to people but honestly Smash even in its current form isn't THAT accessible, I've seen people struggle with it who aren't familiar with Kirby-style platforming physics at all. I think it's a lost cause to keep trying to capitulate to absolutely everyone like this because the nature of Smash is you either get it or you don't. It can't be more simplified than it is already, so if you don't understand how to play it by now then you probably never will. I feel this kind of holds Smash back in a lot of ways, but the positive side is that it can only go up from here. At worst it stays the same.

Okay, that's a lot more words than I thought I was going to say. Let me just say this: I'm mostly just tired of Smash being the game that's "too big to fail" and never fixes its mistakes. It has a lot of flaws and it only keeps adding to them with each successive game, never fixing them because of Sakurai's mentality that he would alienate people who enjoy things the way they are (a mentality that does not AT ALL carry over to other choices he makes as the lead director). Things that should've been fixed two games ago are still there. No major iterations or improvements have been made since then, just adding more content to the pile - more character content over new features, more character content over gameplay improvements, more character content over other different types of content. It's too late to fix Ultimate but it's my wish that something changes for the next game. And there will be a next game, it's inevitable.

 

[GuiltyGyarados]

Byleth being revealed in TGA or in February 2019 would've been far more incendiary. They'd precede both Banjo and their game's launch.

Well, we're not just talking about Byleth here. More the general practice of revealing "meh" characters towards the end of any given release cycle or DLC season. But in Byleth's case specifically, I would've preferred him to get pushed into the second fighter pass, but yes, I suppose you're right.

We've been talking about the base game this whole time.

I've been talking about everything.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

It's funny how the first and last FP characters were the best reveals for me.

It feels nice to start and end it with high notes. They were even the only characters who didn't leak.

Are ya gonna turn Tearing through Heaven up all the way? I know I am

 

[PsychoJosh]

Yeah, now that people gave Three Houses a chance, it has far more fans than haters.

There's a reason why so many people are genuinely happy/OK with Byleth.

So hard to gauge sarcasm through text alone.

 

[Shroob]

Well, we're not just talking about Byleth here. More the general practice of revealing "meh" characters towards the end of any given release cycle or DLC season. But in Byleth's case specifically, I would've preferred him to get pushed into the second fighter pass, but yes, I suppose you're right.

I've been talking about everything.

If you talk about everything at once, you lose focus.


We've been talking about E3 and then you mention DLC when the topic is E3. There's a breakdown of communication and it's on your end.