Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Deleted member]

So... any guesses on when the next announcement will be made?

I’d like to say February, but we’ll probably get something in April or May.

The soonest would be sometime in March; the latest would be E3.

Maybe the next Direct will take place in Early March or something idk.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

I have the big sad that Byleth isn't more focused on their whipsword .

 

[GuiltyGyarados]

Yeah, now that people gave Three Houses a chance, it has far more fans than haters.

There's a reason why so many people are genuinely happy/OK with Byleth.

A lot of it comes off as "I personally liked the game, therefore Byleth is a good inclusion," which is a pretty selfish attitude.

Zelda is my favorite franchise in Smash, but I wouldn't have asked for more than a single additional rep, making seven for one of the most important franchises ever. Any more than that is excessive, and I'd probably complain just as hard as I would about FE.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

So... any guesses on when the next announcement will be made?

I’d like to say February, but we’ll probably get something in April or May.

The soonest would be sometime in March; the latest would be E3.

Maybe the next Direct will take place in Early March or something idk.

Given an statement of "Taking some time" and this Pass running until December 31st, 2021. We're more likely then not waiting until E3 and it also makes sense given every E3 reveal has had an double reveal.

That said I expect the 6, 7 and 8 to be revealed this year and then 8, 9 and 10 next year. 8 and 9 will most likely be revealed at next years E3 if we go by the pattern.

 

[PsychoJosh]

And I'm going to need numbers on these pissed off fans.


Because for the most part, aside from you two, a couple reddit posts occasionally, and 4chan being 4chan, I'm not seeing this ocean of enraged fans that people keep bringing up.


Smash just seems like Smash to me, nothing changes.

Ah yes, the old Ostrich's gambit. "If I don't see it, it therefore doesn't exist".

 

[GuiltyGyarados]

We've been talking about E3 and then you mention DLC when the topic is E3.

If you wanna talk about just the base game, if you don't think thousands of people weren't underwhelmed by Ken and Incineroar, you're engaging in some serious revisionism. Especially when the Grinch "leak" happened.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

What did I miss? Anything interesting happen?

also, I wonder what additional features 7.0 will come with

 

[True Blue Warrior]

He's redundant with Bowser just from a visual standpoint

How the heck is a crocodile and an ox-turtle redundant from a visual standpoint?

I just don't think it would've made a real difference. It's not money they're getting "asap," it's money they would've gotten at the same time anyway. They secure more people earlier, but if anything, that just gives them plenty of time to cancel (which I did).

The only newcomer that would have made a significant difference in terms of sales is .

 

[GuiltyGyarados]

How the heck is a crocodile and an ox-turtle redundant from a visual standpoint?

Big fat green reptiles. One looks cool and is iconic, the other looks really stupid and underdesigned.

I'm biased against Rare, though. I've grown to hate their style.

 

[Shroob]

Ah yes, the old Ostrich's gambit. "If I stick my head in the sand and don't see it, it therefore doesn't exist".

I'm not denying it exists.


But how many people are ANGERY about Smash online?

A hundred?

A thousand?

A million?

A BILLION?


You can't give me a legitimate number because you yourself don't know. You just see some people upset and assume "This must mean there hundreds of thousands of us!"


I'm not denying that there's definitely people who probably don't like Ultimate


but are they a big enough number to matter?


This is not a number neither you nor I can have without EXTENSIVE polling, which you haven't done. You've provided no evidence other than "I seen it!"


The needs of the many will always outweigh the needs of the few.


If a train was coming down the tracks, and you had to choose 1 person to get run over, or 4, and had no choice, which would you pick?

 

[Michael the Spikester]

The only characters I'm rather certain on in this pass are Ryu Hayabusa, Travis Touchdown, Capcom rep and 1st party character.

Dunno why just a gut feeling...

 

[Shroob]

If you wanna talk about just the base game, if you don't think thousands of people weren't underwhelmed by Ken and Incineroar, you're engaging in some serious revisionism. Especially when the Grinch "leak" happened.

I'm not denying that. I was whelming.

But I didn't cancel my pre-order.



So like.... what's your point? The game was still a record breaker.

 

[Leotsune]

If yesterday's video was recorded two months ago, and Terry's a month before, I really doubt they haven't started working on at least a new character.
I think its entirely possible we see something in the next Nintendo direct, just a tease, kinda like Joker, but then again Joker was in a very, very early stage of development while this FP6 probably isn't.

 

[PsychoJosh]

I'm not denying it exists.


But how many people are ANGERY about Smash online?

A hundred?

A thousand?

A million?

A BILLION?

Why is an exact number so important? Obviously they exist and they're not a negligibly small proportion, that should be all that matters shouldn't it? It's very obvious not everyone is happy, you can't just handwave their legitimate criticisms away because they might be in the minority. You don't know that they are either, you're going by likes and dislikes on youtube and number of people posting hashtags on twitter, that's not really an indication of the opinion at large.

If a train was coming down the tracks, and you had to choose 1 person to get run over, or 4, and had no choice, which would you pick?

I'd probably try to hit the brakes and stop the train.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

A lot of it comes off as "I personally liked the game, therefore Byleth is a good inclusion," which is a pretty selfish attitude.

This just in, liking a character because you enjoyed the game they're from means you're selfish. I ****ing hate all this selfish Mario fans, Zelds fans, Metroid fans, DK fans, Animal Crossing fans, yadda yadda yadda. Anyone who's ever been happy with anything is selfish

 

[Saelind Genesis]

What did I miss? Anything interesting happen?

also, I wonder what additional features 7.0 will come with

Yeah, people are MAD on the Internet

 

[GuiltyGyarados]

So like.... what's your point? The game was still a record breaker.

That if the game made a billion dollars, it could've made just a little bit more.

Does it hurt it in the long run? **** no, but to act like their business strategy is flawless just because they broke records that they were DESTINED to break no matter WHAT they did is just plain silly. There is no scenario where they wouldn't have broken those records. That's not the point.

 

[Shroob]

Why is an exact number so important? Obviously they exist and they're not a negligibly small proportion, that should be all that matters shouldn't it? It's very obvious not everyone is happy, you can't just handwave their legitimate criticisms away because they might be in the minority. You don't know that they are either, you're going by likes and dislikes on youtube and number of people posting hashtags on twitter, that's not really an indication of the opinion at large.



I'd probably try to hit the brakes and stop the train.

So then go out there and poll.

If you're so convinced that there are more angry people online than not, prove your point with evidence instead of your opinion.

 

[Brindor]

Everyone here just needs to take a Doctor Mario chillpill and chill out for 5 minutes

 

[GuiltyGyarados]

This just in, liking a character because you enjoyed the game they're from means you're selfish. I ****ing hate all this selfish Mario fans, Zelds fans, Metroid fans, DK fans, Animal Crossing fans, yadda yadda yadda. Anyone who's ever been happy with anything is selfish

Thank you for interpreting my post in the least charitable way possible just to start **** for no reason.

What I'm saying is that you're not the center of the universe. Neither is Fire Emblem, despite what Fire Emblem fans (and Sakurai) seem to think.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Big fat green reptiles. One looks cool and is iconic, the other looks really stupid and underdesigned.

"Oh look, humanoid cool Pokemon, how visually redundant!"
"Oh look, chibi kids, how visually redundant!"
"Oh look, muscular guys, how redundant!"
"Oh look, skinny pretty girls, how redundant!"

I mean, this kind of argument doesn't work for characters like these, so it wouldn't work in this case as well, especially as K. Rool is no more visually similar to Bowser than Dedede is.

 

[PsychoJosh]

So then go out there and poll.

If you're so convinced that there are more angry people online than not, prove your point with evidence instead of your opinion.

Again, you don't get the point. It's just strawman after strawman with you. Where did I say I was convinced that there are more angry people online? All I did was point out that you are being hypocritical. You're using anecdotal and circumstantial data to support your points and accusing us of doing the same thing. Objective criticisms with the game don't suddenly matter less just because there may be less people pointing them out, a point which you have thus far failed to prove by your own standards of proof.

 

[Wunderwaft]

Wow people are still arguing about Byleth. Why don't people just take that energy and use it for something else

It only makes sense that people would talk about a recent Smash character that just got revealed. Or would you prefer that people talk about Byleth after a couple of weeks?

 

[Schnee117]

It only makes sense that people would talk about a recent Smash character that just got revealed. Or would you prefer that people talk about Byleth after a couple of weeks?

Talking about Byleth is one thing.
This **** is way beyond just talking

 

[Shroob]

Again, you don't get the point. It's just strawman after strawman with you. Where did I say I was convinced that there are more angry people online? All I did was point out that you are being hypocritical. You're using anecdotal and circumstantial data to support your points and accusing us of doing the same thing. Objective criticisms with the game don't suddenly matter less just because there are less people pointing them out.

You can't please everyone.

Even the best games have flaws.

And it's not the developer's job to try to please every single person, because everyone will have a different opinion on what they like.

 

[Saelind Genesis]

I was just thinking that the Smash community couldn't surprise me anymore, and here we have a few people essentially arguing that they should run Nintendo

 

[SvartWolf]

It was always destined to be that anyway. No one's surprised by that.

But pissing off fans is never good. Ever. Especially when it's a game that's specifically about... not doing that.

The problem with that i sassuming that fans are an unified entity with clear wants and dislikes.

It's not.

Not everyone wanted Banjo, but you know, is not like the game is Super Rare Bros.

I don't like some of the request people throw like master chief, Ryu hayabusa or at this point, even Geno. but not going to make a big fuss if any of them get in. heck, i may even be happy for its supporters.

I still think that a house leader instead of byleth would have helped augment the flak of house extreme loyalist to say 6%, but would have reduced the general flak probably by 20%. (and personally i really wanted edelgard). And ireally really think that byleth could hve been FP6 at least, but doesn't means that this move is a piss to teh fans like making spirits teh default in online and charging for better spirits in "spirits lootboxes"

That being said, i think i'm a little fed with them holding down teh characters identities for so long. I think i would prefer a triple reveal during thsi e3 and another triple reveal during next, or something like that.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

idk what yall are angey about, I got my Byleth, Im.chillin

 

[GuiltyGyarados]

"Oh look, humanoid cool Pokemon, how visually redundant!"
"Oh look, chibi kids, how visually redundant!"
"Oh look, muscular humans, how redundant!"
"Oh look, skinny pretty girls, how redundant!"

I mean, this kind of argument doesn't work for characters like these, so it wouldn't work in this case as well, especially as K. Rool is no more visually similar to Bowser than Dedede is.

Mewtwo, Greninja, Lucario, and Incineroar are all humanoid, but they look absolutely nothing alike. They don't even share any of the same colors.
Toon Link, Villager, Inkling, Ice Climbers, and Ness aren't the same. They're all young children, but they all look EXTREMELY unique.
Ryu, Simon, Snake, and Captain Falcon are all wearing completely different outfits and look visually distinct.

On top of this, all these characters have completely different personalities and roles in their respective games.

Palutena, Peach, Lucina, and Zelda probably do look too similar, though. Video games generally have this problem where every girl has to be as perfectly pretty as possible with no elbow room for any other body types or visual styles whatsoever. So even though you're trying to be ironic here, you're mocking a genuinely good point about the female characters in this game. They ARE too similar.

King K. Rool is definitely redundant. Again, it's a fat green reptile that's just an uglier and dumber and less creative version of Bowser. They even have the exact same role and general personality.

 

[Kokiden]

What did I miss? Anything interesting happen?

also, I wonder what additional features 7.0 will come with

Don’t think there’s going to be any additional modes.

Balance patch will definitely be a thing.

I humbly request they leave Joker alone, and kindly buff Bayonetta (which they won’t do so she’ll continue to be slow af lol.)

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Thank you for interpreting my post in the least charitable way possible just to start **** for no reason.

What I'm saying is that you're not the center of the universe. Neither is Fire Emblem, despite what Fire Emblem fans (and Sakurai) seem to think.

I'm fine with people being unhappy, my partner wasn't happy, my irl friends are mostly unhappy and some youtubers I watch weren't happy. It's completely fine, yet do you know why I have an issue with reactions like yours? It's the same tired ****. "I'm not happy" fair enough "I HATE this" ok "I need to argue about why people who liked this are wrong" uh huh "I can't complain after Banjo but I'm VERY angry and complaining right now!" Sure thing pal "Did you know that I'm angry about this?" Mhm "I'm just saying, if you aren't angry like I am, you're selfish!" Ok "we could have gotten anything else and instead of focusing on how Byleth being the worst thing for me means none of the other 6 would disappoint me as much, I'm going to focus on how awful this is" You go man.


It's not original, it's not productive, it's not going to make people who don't hate Byleth agree with you and it sure as **** won't change what happens

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Big fat green reptiles. One looks cool and is iconic, the other looks really stupid and underdesigned.

BOWSER IS NOT FAT!!!

He's just big boned.

You take what you can get I guess. I've always preferred smaller and more laser-focused games than big dream match setpieces. While they did give the DLC characters unique new mechanics, I don't feel it's the same as having a mechanical overhaul that Smash is starting to desperately need. The problem with Smash is that it's focused on fanservice to its own detriment, going for quantity over quality, and not doing any major shake-ups to the core mechanics for the sake of having it be this massive dream match game. There's too little for the characters to do, having everyone use the exact same control scheme for movesets is restrictive, we don't get to see the characters interact in any way outside of fighting (a personal pet peeve of mine), and everyone is fundamentally similar in that they all dodge and move the same way - nobody has any real game-changing abilities that force the opponents to behave differently. Everyone uses their abilities the exact same way every time, never needing to get creative.

I know that accessibility is a big deal to people but honestly Smash even in its current form isn't THAT accessible, I've seen people struggle with it who aren't familiar with Kirby-style platforming physics at all. I think it's a lost cause to keep trying to capitulate to absolutely everyone like this because the nature of Smash is you either get it or you don't. It can't be more simplified than it is already, so if you don't understand how to play it by now then you probably never will. I feel this kind of holds Smash back in a lot of ways, but the positive side is that it can only go up from here. At worst it stays the same.

Okay, that's a lot more words than I thought I was going to say. Let me just say this: I'm mostly just tired of Smash being the game that's "too big to fail" and never fixes its mistakes. It has a lot of flaws and it only keeps adding to them with each successive game, never fixing them because of Sakurai's mentality that he would alienate people who enjoy things the way they are (a mentality that does not AT ALL carry over to other choices he makes as the lead director). Things that should've been fixed two games ago are still there. No major iterations or improvements have been made since then, just adding more content to the pile - more character content over new features, more character content over gameplay improvements, more character content over other different types of content. It's too late to fix Ultimate but it's my wish that something changes for the next game. And there will be a next game, it's inevitable.

First of all, you clearly haven't watched a good PAC-MAN player.

Second of all, characters are the most important part of the game, as they are everything the game is designed around including the extra modes. It's not like Super Smash Bros. stays the same with each game either. It may not give characters extra buttons like you seem to be insisting is needed, but each game works on fine tuning the core gameplay and gamefeel so that it can succeed at both the party game and competitive fighting game that it's meant to be.

Everyone here just needs to take a Doctor Mario chillpill and chill out for 5 minutes

Side effects may include runny nose, coughing, laughing, fits of rage, depression, sleep apnea, seeing big penguins, believing you can fly, intense pain, addiction to cheese, no longer finding puppies cute, watching Nugget in a Biscuit for the entire ten hours, walking up to a drive through, ordering, and then leaving without paying or receiving what you ordered, dry mouth, and death.

 

[PsychoJosh]

You can't please everyone.

Even the best games have flaws.

And it's not the developer's job to try to please every single person, because everyone will have a different opinion on what they like.

Generally it is not in the best interest of game developers, especially major ones, to find excuses to use as a crutch. These kinds of excuses don't make for a better game. "You can't please everyone, so we'll just never try. Even the best games have flaws, so we'll just never fix ours."

Nintendo is not this poor struggling company trying its hardest to stay afloat. It has the resources and the capabilities to easily fix its issues and take Smash from an average game to an excellent one. And as fans it should be in the best interests of both ourselves and the company to point out areas where they can improve. They have their bottom line, but it's predicated by everytthing above it, which is in constant flux and ever changing from a number of factors, not thel east of which is constructive feedback.

 

[GuiltyGyarados]

It's not original, it's not productive, it's not going to make people who don't hate Byleth agree with you and it sure as **** won't change what happens

That's okay, it doesn't have to.

 

[Shroob]

Generally it is not in the best interest of game developers, especially major ones, to find excuses to use as a crutch. These kinds of excuses don't make for a better game. "You can't please everyone, so we'll just never try. Even the best games have flaws, so we'll just never fix ours."

Nintendo is not this poor struggling company trying its hardest to stay afloat. It has the resources and the capabilities to easily fix its issues and take Smash from an average game to an excellent one. And as fans it should be in the best interests of both ourselves and the company to point out areas where they can improve. They have their bottom line, but it's predicated by everytthing above it, which is in constant flux and ever changing from a number of factors, not thel east of which is constructive feedback.

The only thing I even want fixed is the net code. I'm 100% happy with the rest of the game.

If you're not, that's too bad. Maybe Ultimate just isnt for you.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

That's okay, it doesn't have to.

Then why not do literally anything better than trying to drag people down for not being angry. Why not go "Well, it literally can't get worse for me so at least I have more to look forward to" or something

 

[GuiltyGyarados]

Then why not do literally anything better than trying to drag people down for not being angry. Why not go "Well, it literally can't get worse for me so at least I have more to look forward to" or something

That would've just let to the same thing. Someone would've viewed that as bait, asking me why I felt that way, and then the minute I explain myself, I'd have a bunch of angry FE fans jumping down my throat, telling me why I'm toxic for my opinions and ****. The other side is just as bad. You realize that, right?

I guess I've had my fill of this topic, though. I've said all I needed to say, and I'm ready to move on the moment everyone else is.

 

[PsychoJosh]

Second of all, characters are the most important part of the game, as they are everything the game is designed around including the extra modes. It's not like Super Smash Bros. stays the same with each game either. It may not give characters extra buttons like you seem to be insisting is needed, but each game works on fine tuning the core gameplay and gamefeel so that it can succeed at both the party game and competitive fighting game that it's meant to be.

The thing is, Smash Ultimate has completely failed to do any of that. Fine tuning the gamefeel? Have you even played this game? It feels substantially worse than 4 and there is a horrible "hold buffer" system in place in a misguided attempt to make short hop aerials easier for people, the cost of which is making the game feel much laggier and worse than the last game. The game only performs actions on the first actionable frame if you hold the inputs down, at which point it will attempt to do them all at once, resulting in consistent, repeated incidents of inputting the wrong attack, or getting NO attack at all where you wanted one. The netcode is also FAR AND AWAY much worse than SSB4's, which I didn't think was possible, made all the more insulting by the fact that you have to pay for it.

Smash Ultimate hasn't fine tuned or refined anything, if anything it's taken huge leaps backwards, which may or may not be a result of them taking a quantity-over-quality approach with the content, and serves as another argument for finally remaking the game.

Characters are the most important part of the game? I disagree. Yes, they are important, but what's more important is having good controls, good online, and nuanced gameplay with the potential for depth. It's lacking in all these areas.

 

[Opossum]

The only major disappointment (besides Edelgard being a better choice imo) I have is that we didn't get God-Shattering Star on the music list.

 

[Slick Guy]

So... any gut feelings for FP2's first spot?