Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[kirbsmash]

I really don't like arguments.

 

[GuiltyGyarados]

I don’t blame people for being disappointed or uninterested, but there have been a lot of hissy fits from grown adults that I’m getting secondhand embarrassment from reading this.

I find it more embarrassing that you take them so seriously.

You THINK they're genuinely upset, but most of them aren't. It's just fun to pretend to be angry, because most of our lives are pretty safe and boring.

Papa's reaction in particular is obviously played up a bit for the camera. He's genuinely tired of Fire Emblem, but he's not actually as angry as he seems. It's just FUN to act mad about stuff. It's cathartic. Nobody on the outside gets it, but that's how it works.

 

[Saelind Genesis]

"People are being mean to me just because I made death threats, this site is so poorly moderated "

 

[Saelind Genesis]

I think we just found PapaGenos alt account guys

 

[GuiltyGyarados]

"People are being mean to me just because I made death threats, this site is so poorly moderated "

I bet you're the kind of person who thinks typing "kys" is a death threat.

 

[Saelind Genesis]

I bet you're the kind of person who thinks typing "kys" is a death threat.

I'm the kind of person that thinks you're 12

 

[GuiltyGyarados]

I'm the kind of person that thinks you're 12

Yeah, like I said, you probably think a lot of stupid ****.

I'm 24. Maybe you have to be that old to understand how big of a ripoff this fighter pass has been, because I'm over the "fanboy" phase. In fact, I never even had that phase.

 

[Captain Fun]

I find it more embarrassing that you take them so seriously.

You THINK they're genuinely upset, but most of them aren't. It's just fun to pretend to be angry, because most of our lives are pretty safe and boring.

Papa's reaction in particular is obviously played up a bit for the camera. He's genuinely tired of Fire Emblem, but he's not actually as angry as he seems. It's just FUN to be mad about stuff. It's cathartic.

Well, if they’re just pretending then I’m not talking about them, but there are people who absolutely ARE mad. Like I’m talking about people making death threats, or drive by comments about FE fans or anyone else who dares to not be upset by this development.

 

[Saelind Genesis]

Yeah, like I said, you probably think a lot of stupid ****.

I'm 24.

Damn, fooled me very well. That was some excellent acting of a spoiled child throwing a tantrum

 

[GuiltyGyarados]

Damn, fooled me very well. That was some excellent acting of a spoiled child throwing a tantrum

The only spoiled children here are FE fans who refuse to accept that people don't have to like or put up with their garbage.

 

[Izanagi97]

Not even close lol.

I'm not a Fire Emblem fan at all and the people pissed are a million times more toxic lol.


You legit can't beat saying "We should send Sakurai antrax".

Wait what?

It's pretty telling when a death threat is defended as "just a joke guys"

Go back to 4chan lmao

Yeah, that **** is not something to be joked about

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

Ok guys. Put a stop to it. If this continues, I will begin handing out warnings as this is off-topic and unrelated to the current discussion. I will be going through these past pages and issue any warnings that deserve them. Please keep in mind that responding to this to illicit some sort of debate or rebuttal will result in a spam warning.

Cut it out

 

[Ben Holt]

What the **** did I just walk into?

 

[GuiltyGyarados]

Ok guys. Put a stop to it. If this continues, I will begin handing out warnings as this is off-topic and unrelated to the current discussion. I will be going through these past pages and issue any warnings that deserve them. Please keep in mind that responding to this to illicit some sort of debate or rebuttal will result in a spam warning.

Cut it out

*elicit

What the **** did I just walk into?

An argument. Never seen one before, or what?

Anyway, I think we're getting Dante next. What say you guys?

 

[Evil Trapezium]

You know what? I'm still pretty confident in Sgt. Cortez's chances in Fighters Pass 2. I bet that magic number 11 is going to be him!

It's Time to Split!

 

[Zeox]

I need to write out my feelings, because the more I think about it, the less I like it, now, I respect Sakurai and I have absolutely nothing against FE, I think it's a great franchise and I think Sakurai already have us a lot of super wanted characters, and if he wants to add a character he wants more than the community then he totally should do it, he worked hard enough and deserves it.... however....

Spoiler: Unnecessary rant

Jesus Christ are you kidding me...
Zelda hasn't got a real new fighter since melee, Kirby since brawl, a lot of popular and classic franchises struggle with having more than 3 characters, lots of them didn't even got an Echo, and meanwhile FE got Echo and a new character, just like in Sm4sh (except there they got 2 new characters + clone), and is not like Fire Emblem doesn't have more interesting characters to add to the roster, so why add the blue haired protagonist? why not add a villain or a secondary character? for **** sake Edelgard was much more interesting and had a cooler design, or that black knight dude... a franchise shouldn't be defined by just heroes.
And Sakurai could had announced it in a better way and not hype it that much, a 35 minutes stream about FE, Smash fans know what Fire Emblem is, we are aware of it, we don't need Sakurai to explain what Treehouses is about the game has been out for almost a year.
And no, I was not expecting to see a character I wanted, I had no expectatives, everyone was talking about Dante or Doomguy and I don't give a crap about them, so I didn't expect anything yet I ended up annoyed anyways...
Yeah, I care more about looks and backstory than moveset, that's why I play as Dark Samus more than regular Samus even thought they both share the same moveset and that's why I love that they added her, because she looks cool and have a cool backstory, and that's why Byleth is so annoying, in looks he (or she) looks like a "dark marth", and in personality he (or she) is just the default protagonist.
But no, it's great, I cannot disagree with internet or just express my feelings because "lol hoes mad", I can understand people excited for Byleth, and I respect all of you and your feelings towards the character, but please respect how I feel too, and yes you totally can say "well you are wrong" or "that's not how it is", one thing is having different opinions and the other is just low meme bait.

Sorry if I wrote a lot of dumb stuff, I myself am pretty dumb sometimes.

 

[GuiltyGyarados]

I actually do expect more FE characters, because I think Sakurai genuinely enjoys trolling people like me. I unironically think that he learned how to count in binary specifically so that he could have an excuse to flip those of us who are fed up with anime swordfighters the bird. I don't think that was an accident.

Besides FE, I don't expect us to get anyone who's already a Spirit at this point, effectively disconfirming those characters. I'd love to be wrong about that, but I think if he wanted to break that expectation, he would've done it already.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

My personal thoughts on Byleth are this.

That said however, I wasn't going on a feasible rant about it like PapaGenos did, I think that was super childish of him. I was disappointed, but I was still clicking in with the moveset and what they did while watching Nairo's reaction and I loved the Mii Costumes, especially Cuphead and Altair.

 

[Saelind Genesis]

I need to write out my feelings, because the more I think about it, the less I like it, now, I respect Sakurai and I have absolutely nothing against FE, I think it's a great franchise and I think Sakurai already have us a lot of super wanted characters, and if he wants to add a character he wants more than the community then he totally should do it, he worked hard enough and deserves it.... however....

Spoiler: Unnecessary rant

Jesus Christ are you kidding me...
Zelda hasn't got a real new fighter since melee, Kirby since brawl, a lot of popular and classic franchises struggle with having more than 3 characters, lots of them didn't even got an Echo, and meanwhile FE got Echo and a new character, just like in Sm4sh (except there they got 2 new characters + clone), and is not like Fire Emblem doesn't have more interesting characters to add to the roster, so why add the blue haired protagonist? why not add a villain or a secondary character? for **** sake Edelgard was much more interesting and had a cooler design, or that black knight dude... a franchise shouldn't be defined by just heroes.
And Sakurai could had announced it in a better way and not hype it that much, a 35 minutes stream about FE, Smash fans know what Fire Emblem is, we are aware of it, we don't need Sakurai to explain what Treehouses is about the game has been out for almost a year.
And no, I was not expecting to see a character I wanted, I had no expectatives, everyone was talking about Dante or Doomguy and I don't give a crap about them, so I didn't expect anything yet I ended up annoyed anyways...
Yeah, I care more about looks and backstory than moveset, that's why I play as Dark Samus more than regular Samus even thought they both share the same moveset and that's why I love that they added her, because she looks cool and have a cool backstory, and that's why Byleth is so annoying, in looks he (or she) looks like a "dark marth", and in personality he (or she) is just the default protagonist.
But no, it's great, I cannot disagree with internet or just express my feelings because "lol hoes mad", I can understand people excited for Byleth, and I respect all of you and your feelings towards the character, but please respect how I feel too, and yes you totally can say "well you are wrong" or "that's not how it is", one thing is having different opinions and the other is just low meme bait.

Sorry if I wrote a lot of dumb stuff, I myself am pretty dumb sometimes.

Toon Link came aboard in Brawl, no?

 

[GuiltyGyarados]

Toon Link came aboard in Brawl, no?

Toon Link is really just Young Link 2. He counts, but I feel his ache for more Zelda representation, especially now that there's a two character gap between Zelda and FE which just feels... gross and wrong.

It's hard to think of good candidates, though, especially with Skull Kid as an AT.

 

[Lenidem]

People are commenting on how many of the characters from DLC (both this game and Smash 4) have been from RPG series compared to others like its some sort of surprise. Japan is where RPGs originated; its the mother of all RPGs; why wouldn't the most popular genre in that country get the lion's share of representation?

I don't think people are surprised. I think they just don't like it.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Looking at the page numbers I slept through the entire cold war.

I'm of the mind that the next character will be randomly revealed in April.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

I do want to take this time to express that it’s perfectly ok to be diddapointed with this reveal. I personally was because I don’t like FE. That being said, it’s still not an invitation to completely trash on the series or the character and especially not the franchise. Likewise, it’s not an invitation to gain up on people for expressing a potentially unpopular opinion. Some people will like it, some people won’t but throwing around the word “toxic”, “troll”, “trash”, etc does nothing but harm and causes more problems.

*elicit

Anyway, I think we're getting Dante next. What say you guys?

Thank you for the correction.

As for Dante, I still think he has a very good chance but not sure if he is fighter #6.

 

[MagnesD3]

My guess For the 6 with hopefuls

Crash
Heihachi
Sora
Rayman
Master Chief
Waluigi

My guess for reality

Ryu Hayabusa
Crash
Heihachi
Dante
Steve
Waluigi

 

[Fatmanonice]

Byleth is actually cool as all Hell and basically everything I've ever wanted in a Fire Emblem character, ironically enough. If anything, he was poorly received because of the timing and the fact that these past two months have been, uh, tense. Like I ranted about on New Year's Eve and even GameXplain and Source Gaming commented on, people were burned out on the Guess Who game and the fact that hardly anyone prominent was making hard predictions over fear of damage to their e-cred. I fully understand why people were pissed at this outcome. The most toxic period in Smash Speculation history ending on another promotional Fire Emblem character is weirdly appropriate.

 

[GuiltyGyarados]

PapaGenos did, I think that was super childish of him.

I still think this is an unfair characterization. He's putting on a show for his audience. I for one thought it was interesting to see a different side of him. A more honest, raw, and emotional side that we've never gotten to see before. I think there's this perception that, because he's a YouTuber, he has to be professional or "above" that sort of thing, but I think videos like that just show that he's human. I don't love Papa's content or even agree with him on everything, but I'm prepared to defend him to the grave on this one.

If he had just hid his disappointment the whole time and voiced none of his grievances, that would've made for one boring reaction video. It also would've been dishonest.

My guess for reality

Ryu Hayabusa
Crash
Heihachi
Dante
Steve
Waluigi

I want to believe Waluigi could some day make it in, but him being an AT in this game still feels like a death blow to me.

 

[WeirdSandwich]

My ratings for the first fighters pass:

Joker: 4/5
Hero: 3/5
Banjo: 10/5
Terry: 5/5
Byleth: 1/5

So overall 23/25, really good fighter pass!

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

The most toxic period in Smash Speculation history ending on another promotional Fire Emblem character is weirdly appropriate.

Grinch Leak:

 

[GuiltyGyarados]

Grinch Leak

Please don't even remind me.

 

[Eldrake]

Grinch Leak

Brave Leak:

 

[Lenidem]

Byleth is actually cool as all Hell and basically everything I've ever wanted in a Fire Emblem character, ironically enough. If anything, he was poorly received because of the timing and the fact that these past two months have been, uh, tense. Like I ranted about on New Year's Eve and even GameXplain and Source Gaming commented on, people were burned out on the Guess Who game and the fact that hardly anyone prominent was making hard predictions over fear of damage to their e-cred. I fully understand why people were pissed at this outcome. The most toxic period in Smash Speculation history ending on another promotional Fire Emblem character is weirdly appropriate.

There is that. But cool or not, there is so many more enjoyable and cool possibilities, even without looking at the third parties, that I think he would have been badly received at anytime, because Fire Emblem.

 

[PsychoJosh]

Rank the DLC

Joker: 1/5
I don't know anything about Persona. It's a game that has never interested me and never will. But I am just judging by how Joker got presented in Smash, he is SUPREMELY boring, both in visual design and in gameplay. His stage seems more visually interesting than himself, but there is a striking disparity in quality between the stage and him. I was indifferent towards his reveal initially, but over time it has left a sour taste in my mouth. It seems to me that he's the type of character where you HAVE to like his original game in order to like him, which is my least favorite type of character in Smash.

Hero: 2/5
Similar to Persona, I really do not care about Dragon Quest. I've always struggled to find JRPGs fun unless they had Mario in them, because I've always been more of an action-focused gamer, although in more recent years I've come to enjoy Chrono Trigger and Secret of Mana that I didn't give a pass when I was younger. In any case, because of my lack of interest in DQ I don't really care about Hero all that much, although I do understand why he is in Smash since the DQ series is supposed to be the poster child for the entire JRPG genre. Unfortunately I just find Hero's presence to be really tiresome because it's so similar to other characters in the game, although I must give props for having an interesting and unique mechanic with the MP and Command Selection special.

Banjo: 3.5/5
Yes, I played Banjo as a preteen, but I don't feel particularly nostalgic for his series (I'm more of a SNES fanboy than an N64 fanboy). However he is much closer to the design I'd like to see in future DLC fighters, something truly unique and not matched by anything in the game, and considering the other characters are just random dudes I think he's a sight for sore eyes. Sadly I just find his gameplay pretty dull and samey in Smash (not completely unlike his original game), and his stage isn't all that interesting either. Still, it could've been much worse. I just wish we could see more character designs like Banjo in the game.

Terry: 3/5
I'm a huge fan of traditional fighters, although I didn't really grow up with SNK games - I'm more acquainted with Capcom fighters than anything else. I was down on Terry when he was first leaked but over time I grew to appreciate his inclusion simply because I like the idea of Smash players getting a taste of traditional fighting game mechanics, and he has always played differently enough from Ryu and Ken to stand out on his own. The music selection that accompanies him is also pretty good, although his stage is nothing to write home about (what do you expect? Stages in traditional fighting games are little else than eye candy). Also I'm miffed about Mai not appearing in his stage, and find it kind of hypocritical of Sakurai to exclude her because her design is too lewd.

Byleth: 0/5
I think everyone has said everything that can be said about Byleth at this point. Absolutely lackluster character to close the first season on, and I feel kind of vindicated in disliking Smash Ultimate as a result of this DLC. But I'm really not surprised. I expected nothing good, and got nothing good. Although I am kind of a cynic, this does nothing but reaffirm my feelings towards the next batch of characters in that I expect them all to be even more homogenized and boring than this last season. Byleth is the kind of character announcement that makes me question why I have any interest in Smash at all. It's because of characters like this that I feel Smash is failing to live up to its potential of being a truly exciting and world-beating game with a wildly diverse cast of characters.

Overall: 1.5/5 - F
If you liked the DLC, good for you, but personally I feel vindicated in my negative opinions on Smash Ultimate as a whole because of this DLC season. The game has problems and the utterly lackluster choices in characters don't help it at all. They strike me as selfish pandering at best and completely tone deaf at worst, like they're either shilling something or just adding in whatever the hell they want just to appease themselves and only themselves. I knew it was foolish to drop money on a season of mystery characters, and with this as the end result, I'm glad I didn't. Joker's announcement rightfully did not instill any hope in me for the rest of the season, and Byleth does not instill any hope in me for the future characters. As far as we know this process will repeat itself for a long time coming, and I just want it to be over because I'm tired of being strung along by Smash Ultimate's false promises of all-star gaming excitement. I hope they're aware just how disappointed many people are with this roster, although given the utterly tone deaf reveal of Byleth yesterday, I think they may actually just not care in the slightest and I wouldn't be surprised if this was the case.

 

[osby]

The most toxic period in Smash Speculation history ending on another promotional Fire Emblem character is weirdly appropriate.

Oh, we are doing this "every character younger than a decade is promotional" thing again like Three Houses isn't around for months, didn't get almost universal praise from fans and receive more Game of the Year awards than Ultimate.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

I was hopeful when I saw the trailer's opening. I was ecstatic the first time I saw the up b. I was disappointed when I found out how few whipsword abilities there were.

There's about a 60% chance I will buy Ultimate now. Byleth still looks pretty fun, and if a mod could even just let the up b be aimed, it would be upped to about 90%.

 

[Shroob]

Joker: 1/5
I don't know anything about Persona. It's a game that has never interested me and never will. But I am just judging by how Joker got presented in Smash, he is SUPREMELY boring, both in visual design and in gameplay. His stage seems more visually interesting than himself, but there is a striking disparity in quality between the stage and him. I was indifferent towards his reveal initially, but over time it has left a sour taste in my mouth. It seems to me that he's the type of character where you HAVE to like his original game in order to like him, which is my least favorite type of character in Smash.

Hero: 2/5
Similar to Persona, I really do not care about Dragon Quest. I've always struggled to find JRPGs fun unless they had Mario in them, because I've always been more of an action-focused gamer, although in more recent years I've come to enjoy Chrono Trigger and Secret of Mana that I didn't give a pass when I was younger. In any case, because of my lack of interest in DQ I don't really care about Hero all that much, although I do understand why he is in Smash since the DQ series is supposed to be the poster child for the entire JRPG genre. Unfortunately I just find Hero's presence to be really tiresome because it's so similar to other characters in the game, although I must give props for having an interesting and unique mechanic with the MP and Command Selection special.

Banjo: 3.5/5
Yes, I played Banjo as a preteen, but I don't feel particularly nostalgic for his series (I'm more of a SNES fanboy than an N64 fanboy). However he is much closer to the design I'd like to see in future DLC fighters, something truly unique and not matched by anything in the game, and considering the other characters are just random dudes I think he's a sight for sore eyes. Sadly I just find his gameplay pretty dull and samey in Smash (not completely unlike his original game), and his stage isn't all that interesting either. Still, it could've been much worse. I just wish we could see more character designs like Banjo in the game.

Terry: 3/5
I'm a huge fan of traditional fighters, although I didn't really grow up with SNK games - I'm more acquainted with Capcom fighters than anything else. I was down on Terry when he was first leaked but over time I grew to appreciate his inclusion simply because I like the idea of Smash players getting a taste of traditional fighting game mechanics, and he has always played differently enough from Ryu and Ken to stand out on his own. The music selection that accompanies him is also pretty good, although his stage is nothing to write home about (what do you expect? Stages in traditional fighting games are little else than eye candy). Also I'm miffed about Mai not appearing in his stage, and find it kind of hypocritical of Sakurai to exclude her because her design is too lewd.

Byleth: 0/5
I think everyone has said everything that can be said about Byleth at this point. Absolutely lackluster character to close the first season on, and I feel kind of vindicated in disliking Smash Ultimate as a result of this DLC. But I'm really not surprised. I expected nothing good, and got nothing good. Although I am kind of a cynic, this does nothing but reaffirm my feelings towards the next batch of characters in that I expect them all to be even more homogenized and boring than this last season. Byleth is the kind of character announcement that makes me question why I have any interest in Smash at all. It's because of characters like this that I feel Smash is failing to live up to its potential of being a truly exciting and world-beating game with a wildly diverse cast of characters.

Overall: 1.5/5 - F
If you liked the DLC, good for you, but personally I feel vindicated in my negative opinions on Smash Ultimate as a whole because of this DLC season. The game has problems and the utterly lackluster choices in characters don't help it at all. They strike me as selfish pandering at best and completely tone deaf at worst, like they're either shilling something or just adding in whatever the hell they want just to appease themselves and only themselves. I knew it was foolish to drop money on a season of mystery characters, and with this as the end result, I'm glad I didn't. Joker's announcement rightfully did not instill any hope in me for the rest of the season, and Byleth does not instill any hope in me for the future characters. As far as we know this process will repeat itself for a long time coming, and I just want it to be over because I'm tired of being strung along by Smash Ultimate's false promises of all-star gaming excitement. I hope they're aware just how disappointed many people are with this roster, although given the utterly tone deaf reveal of Byleth yesterday, I think they may actually just not care in the slightest and I wouldn't be surprised if this was the case.

>The roster is tone deaf

>Every previous Smash character + long standing fan demands


Alright then well you're definitely entitled to your opinion.

 

[GuiltyGyarados]

Oh, we are doing this "every caracter younger than a decade is promotional" thing again like Three Houses isn't around for months, didn't get almost universal praise from fans and receive more Game of the Year awards than Ultimate

Why doesn't Sakurai just make a Fire Emblem fighting game, then?

FE can have all the success it wants, but that doesn't mean Smash has to be a celebration of Fire Emblem exclusively.

 

[PsychoJosh]

>The roster is tone deaf

>Every previous Smash character + long standing fan demands

That's the definition of tone deaf. No one was asking for "every previous Smash character" to come back, just Snake, Wolf and Ice Climbers. Characters who are now redundant, like Pichu and Young Link, were not being asked for by anybody. And I think bringing everybody back only served to hurt the game, because it feels overly bloated and stale, and doesn't do anything interesting or unexpected because it's focused on having higher numbers instead of higher quality. I've gone into detail as to why it feels stale before, but basically it feels like no significant evolution in gameplay has happened and we've basically been playing the same game for the past 20 years.

And I don't know what you're talking about with "long-standing fan demands" - K. Rool, the Belmonts and Ridley were the only characters who meet this criteria, every other newcomer was apparently picked either by Nintendo's marketing team or by throwing darts at a wall full of post-it notes.

 

[I.D.]

Oh, we are doing this "every caracter younger than a decade is promotional" thing again like Three Houses isn't around for months, didn't get almost universal praise from fans and receive more Game of the Year awards than Ultimate

Oh, we are doing this thing where we pretend Sakurai didn't pick Byleth a whole year before his game released and that his presentation wasn't immediately followed by an ad for 3 Houses DLC

 

[Wunderwaft]

Oh, we are doing this "every caracter younger than a decade is promotional" thing again like Three Houses isn't around for months, didn't get almost universal praise from fans and receive more Game of the Year awards than Ultimate

To be fair, Byleth was chosen to be part of the fighters pass like a year before his game came out. There was no way to know that the game was going to be a success and loved by fans. Byleth was chosen for promotional purposes and not because his game was good.

 

[WeirdSandwich]

If you liked the DLC, good for you, but personally I feel vindicated in my negative opinions on Smash Ultimate as a whole because of this DLC season. The game has problems and the utterly lackluster choices in characters don't help it at all. They strike me as selfish pandering at best and completely tone deaf at worst, like they're either shilling something or just adding in whatever the hell they want just to appease themselves and only themselves. I knew it was foolish to drop money on a season of mystery characters, and with this as the end result, I'm glad I didn't. Joker's announcement rightfully did not instill any hope in me for the rest of the season, and Byleth does not instill any hope in me for the future characters. As far as we know this process will repeat itself for a long time coming, and I just want it to be over because I'm tired of being strung along by Smash Ultimate's false promises of all-star gaming excitement. I hope they're aware just how disappointed many people are with this roster, although given the utterly tone deaf reveal of Byleth yesterday, I think they may actually just not care in the slightest and I wouldn't be surprised if this was the case.

It's completely reasonable to be disappointed with the DLC so far, but you're being way way too harsh on the base game. I mean, this is the Smash game where we got ALL of the previous characters back, plus long time fan requests like Ridley and K.Rool, and a well deserving classic character in Simon Belmont (with a ton of music to boot).

They will never be able to get every single third party character and satisfy everyone, and to say that they don't care about this game after a couple disappointing DLC characters is insulting tbh.