Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

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I think if a Three Houses character was part of the pass they’d be announced by now, in place of Hero. Other than being a Corrin-esque advertisement for a new game I don’t see any reason to add them, and next DLC likely won’t release until December.. a little too late to advertise a game coming out in like two weeks.

A Gen 8 Pokémon is still on my radar for “most likely 1st party”, though I’m really hoping that doesn’t happen. Lines up better timewise and Pokémon has a bigger audience to sell to.

 

[Opossum]

I think if a Three Houses character was part of the pass they’d be announced by now, in place of Hero. Other than being a Corrin-esque advertisement for a new game I don’t see any reason to add them, and next DLC likely won’t release until December.. a little too late to advertise a game coming out in like two weeks.

A Gen 8 Pokémon is still on my radar for “most likely 1st party”, though I’m really hoping that doesn’t happen. Lines up better timewise and Pokémon has a bigger audience to sell to.

That depends on if you view it from Fates' Japanese release date or its international one. A December reveal would make sense if we go by the Japanese one. Especially if they do include something spoilery with whatever character they pick, they'd likely want to wait a bit after release to announce them.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I think if a Three Houses character was part of the pass they’d be announced by now, in place of Hero. Other than being a Corrin-esque advertisement for a new game I don’t see any reason to add them, and next DLC likely won’t release until December.. a little too late to advertise a game coming out in like two weeks.

After the backlash ofyou REALLY think Nintendo and Sakurai will do that again? Even Sakurai was having doubts but the developers convinced him due to how unique he/she was and look how that still turned out. Doubt they'll do the same mistake again.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

After the backlash ofyou REALLY think Nintendo and Sakurai will do that again? Even Sakurai was having doubts but the developers convinced him due to how unique he/she was and look how that still turned out. Doubt they'll do the same mistake again.

It's especially bad considering most Smash fans are tired of Pokémon characters, and most Pokémon fans are still angry at Pokémon Sword and Shield.

 

[volbound1700]

To successfully pull of another Fire Emblem or Pokemon character, the character would have to be very different than any of the characters from the series that are in Smash.

The Smash team would be better off adding a DK character (Dixie), Zelda Character (Skull Kid or Impa), Star Fox (Krystal), or a Kirby Character (Bandana Dee) if they went the first party route.

Rayman's all but deconfirmed at this point. Shame, he's like one of the few (reasonable) characters that I wanted in. Waluigi and Steve are deconfirmed to varying degrees (with one being an outright "no" and the other simply being connecting the dots), but it's anyone's guess if we are getting a new Pokemon/FE rep (I don't want either, as well).

Crash seems to be a very popular choice here but I don't think he's as much a lock as many people insist. He still seems very likely tho, keep that in mind.

I am still believing the costume theory and that we will get a Capcom and Namco character to finish out. I am not wild about the choices.

 

[Koopaul]

If they went the first party route it would have to be something really unique and exciting. I don't think the typical requests of Dixie, Bandana Dee, Skull Kid or any of the others will cut it. Even though I and many other fans would be excited to see those characters, general audiences will find them underwhelming compared to the likes of Banjo, Joker, and Hero who all brought something brand new into Smash. So if it was a Nintendo character it would have to be a brand new upcoming IP.

 

[Playstation Guy 1000]

If they went the first party route it would have to be something really unique and exciting. I don't think the typical requests of Dixie, Bandana Dee, Skull Kid or any of the others will cut it. Even though I and many other fans would be excited to see those characters, general audiences will find them underwhelming compared to the likes of Banjo, Joker, and Hero who all brought something brand new into Smash. So if it was a Nintendo character it would have to be a brand new upcoming IP.

and even then having character from a upcoming new ip as dlc is unlikely since we don't even know it will either be a commercial success like splatoon or a commercial failure like the wonderful 101.

 

[Opossum]

To successfully pull of another Fire Emblem or Pokemon character, the character would have to be very different than any of the characters from the series that are in Smash.

I mean, that isn't exactly hard to do.

 

[Ura]

If they went the first party route it would have to be something really unique and exciting. I don't think the typical requests of Dixie, Bandana Dee, Skull Kid or any of the others will cut it. Even though I and many other fans would be excited to see those characters, general audiences will find them underwhelming compared to the likes of Banjo, Joker, and Hero who all brought something brand new into Smash. So if it was a Nintendo character it would have to be a brand new upcoming IP.

My boy with the wrenches about to come true for all of y'all.

 

[FightingGhost73]

Rex being too new for the base game doesn't have an effect for someone being too new for DLC, especially since unlike Rex for the base game, any character they'd have potentially picked for something like Three Houses would have had a finalized design when the negotation time came.

Rex more than likely just wasn't considered a good DLC option, for one reason or another.

Hes gonna be a surprise 6th character lmao

 

[Deleted member]

I always felt the hate Pokemon and Fire Emblem character get quite silly and mostly is based on expecting other characters instead of them. If we're being honest, they could be quite cool qnd unique moveset-wise. After all the last unique ones we got for each one are quite unique archetypes.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I always felt the hate Pokemon and Fire Emblem character get quite silly and mostly is based on expecting other characters instead of them. If we're being honest, they could be quite cool qnd unique moveset-wise. After all the last unique ones we got for each one are quite unique archetypes.

Every character can be unique and cool, but at a certain point, people are gonna start wanting characters from some different damn series.

 

[Opossum]

Every character can be unique and cool, but at a certain point, people are gonna start wanting characters from some different damn series.

Well they're in luck then. Out of the fifteen newcomers announced for Ultimate so far, thirteen of them are neither from Fire Emblem nor Pokémon!

 

[Deleted member]

Every character can be unique and cool, but at a certain point, people are gonna start wanting characters from some different damn series.

Dunno, but that kind of thinking feels odd when some of the most popular choices in the fandom tend to be Mario related like Waluigi, Toad and Geno.

 

[TheCJBrine]

I also sometimes have an odd feeling about more FE characters tbh, but also honestly I don’t really care plus I’m biased for more Pokémon and Mario dudebros. I also find FE kinda interesting though I haven’t played any FE games yet.

 

[StormC]

I just don't really think Fire Emblem is a successful or popular enough series to merit that kind of special attention. I'm fine with it for Pokemon.

 

[Sari]

I just don't really think Fire Emblem is a successful or popular enough series to merit that kind of special attention. I'm fine with it for Pokemon.

Fire Emblem Heroes alone has grossed over $500 million as of this February. Like it or not, Fire Emblem is definitely up there as one of Nintendo's most popular series.

 

[StormC]

Fire Emblem Heroes alone has grossed over $500 million as of this February. Like it or not, Fire Emblem is definitely up there as one of Nintendo's most popular series.

Really don't think a gacha game is a good measure of a franchise's popularity. Especially not back in the Smash 4 days before Heroes even existed.

 

[Opossum]

Really don't think a gacha game is a good measure of a franchise's popularity. Especially not back in the Smash 4 days before Heroes even existed.

That just sounds like cherry picking honestly. It doesn't matter what type of game it is so long as it's clearly making money.

It's just a series that lends itself well to characters, considering there are over 800 named characters in the franchise itself.

 

[StormC]

That just sounds like cherry picking honestly. It doesn't matter what type of game it is so long as it's clearly making money.

A game where individual people can, and do, spend thousands of dollars is not necessarily a measurable quantifier for how popular a game is across a wide range of people. Gacha games thrive on a hardcore fanbase willing to pour their wallet out into them.

 

[Opossum]

A game where individual people can, and do, spend thousands of dollars is not necessarily a measurable quantifier for how popular a game is across a wide range of people. Gacha games thrive on a hardcore fanbase willing to pour their wallet out into them.

But at the same time it shows that among a sea of gacha games, it's able to stand out. It's pretty consistently in the top grossing apps.

 

[Idon]

The only thing I'm getting from this debate is that we should put in Gudako from Fate.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Dunno, but that kind of thinking feels odd when some of the most popular choices in the fandom tend to be Mario related like Waluigi, Toad and Geno.

I think the key thing here is that those particular characters have big demand, and are therefore exceptions, whereas if another character (like Piranha Plant, or someone like, say, Nabbit) were to make it in, the saturation would stand out more.

At the end of the day it boils down to whether people like the character or not, but I guess people are more willing to give a character a chance if the franchise is underrepresented (I think if Zero Suit Samus or Sheik had debuted with their respective franchises at 9 characters people wouldn't have taken them as well as they did).

Well they're in luck then. Out of the fifteen newcomers announced for Ultimate so far, thirteen of them are neither from Fire Emblem nor Pokémon!

I don't follow your logic. There's plenty of characters people like, so therefore they can't complain about those they don't?

 

[Idon]

I don't follow your logic. There's plenty of characters people like, so therefore they can't complain about those they don't?

I believe the logic goes:
You want "characters from some different damn series" in response to Fire Emblem/Pokemon.
Thus, his response is, paraphrased, "You got characters from different series, 13 of them."

 

[Deathlightning21]

I just don't really think Fire Emblem is a successful or popular enough series to merit that kind of special attention. I'm fine with it for Pokemon.

Well, I mean, if Fire Emblem wasn't successful...then there wouldn't be any new fire emblem games coming out, especially on the Switch. Both Awakening and Fates sold around 2 million copies, which sounds pretty successful to me.

And 'unsuccessful' isn't really a good factor when dead franchises get characters every so often, ala Simon and Banjo.

 

[StormC]

Well, I mean, if Fire Emblem wasn't successful...then there wouldn't be any new fire emblem games coming out, especially on the Switch. Both Awakening and Fates sold around 2 million copies, which sounds pretty successful to me.

And 'unsuccessful' isn't really a good factor when dead franchises get characters every so often, ala Simon and Banjo.

I didn't say it wasn't successful. I used the word "enough." People were comparing it to Pokemon when Pokemon makes Fire Emblem look like an ant.

There's a difference between a "dead" series like Castlevania and Banjo getting a character versus another franchise getting several.

 

[Deathlightning21]

I didn't say it wasn't successful. I used the word "enough." People were comparing it to Pokemon when Pokemon makes Fire Emblem look like an ant.

There's a difference between a "dead" series like Castlevania and Banjo getting a character versus another franchise getting several.

So, when does series overall success start becoming a factor for more characters?

Like, say, the next Nintendo IP comes out and somehow manages to net 5.5 million copies sold. Does that guarantee the new characters from that game or does the next game in that series has to sell another or more than 5.5 million copies to start consideration?

 

[StormC]

So, when does series overall success start becoming a factor for more characters?

Like, say, the next Nintendo IP comes out and somehow manages to net 5.5 million copies sold. Does that guarantee the new characters from that game or does the next game in that series has to sell another or more than 5.5 million copies to start consideration?

Why are you talking about new IPs? Not sure what this whataboutism is all about, but my opinion is: Robin and Lucina were totally fine, logical, reasonable additions considering how Awakening was a hit. Corrin was an unnecessary addition at the time of Smash 4 when Fire Emblem had already received new characters and Fates hadn't even come out outside of Japan. It was excessive at the time.

 

[Polan]

all the complaining about FE is so bloody irritating that it makes me want a Three Houses character in the pass just to spite the whiners. well that and byleth and edelgard are pretty cool, but its mostly spite that's driving my want.

 

[Predictabo]

Most of the crying about FE/sword using characters is because the glut of them in Smash are built off the same base. The "there's only a few ways to use a sword" narrative is bunk because there are games where a high % of the cast uses swords and they manage to employ unique styles.

 

[Wunderwaft]

I think it's safe to say that the Fire Emblem series has become a main star IP of Nintendo after it persevered through harsh times and grew to be this big. Fire Emblem has a Marth clone problem and not a sword problem, four of it's seven characters share the same build and moves. The sword is a weapon that can be used to fight in many different ways. It's Sakurai's own decision to reuse the same moveset over and over, and it's not because of the limit of the weapon and whatnot.

 

[osby]

Fire Emblem has a Marth clone problem and not a sword problem, four of it's seven characters share the same build and moves.

I don't see why it is a problem.

They still play discernably different, they don't take development time that can be used for other characters and unlike Earthbound or Star Fox, there are still a few completely unique characters from the same franchise.

Most of the crying about FE/sword using characters is because the glut of them in Smash are built off the same base.

Not really. are not based on any other fighter.

, sure, but I wouldn't call them "the glut of [swordfighters]", being a mere 1/3.

 

[3BitSaurus]

I've said this before in other threads, but the hate for FE and sword characters is less of a big thing by itself and more of a sum of several factors.

- FE currently has 7 representatives, making it the third series with the most characters, the first two being Pokémon (8) and Mario (9).

- FE is the only franchise, besides Pokémon, that always gets a new character every game since its introduction. A lot of people feel this is just Nintendo pushing the series rather than FE "deserving" it, like Pokémon.

- Like Pokémon, the new characters always come from the newest installments regardless of fanbase push. It's why some support bases (particularly the ones for Lyn, Hector and Black Knight) have grown kinda frustrated. Again, it feels like pure marketing push.

- Unlike Pokémon, though, not all of the new characters have interesting new archetypes (for example, we had no actual Fighting-type Pokémon before Lucario, nor any character with the wrestler archetype before Incineroar). Several things FE is known for, particularly its mechanics, are largely ignored. I've seen FE fans even complain about this in the stages that represent the series.

- The fact that the characters chosen tend to be the (usually, from my understanding) Lord-class protagonists and these mostly use swords doesn't help.

- The thing with sword characters is that even if their movesets and normals have some differences, they tend to borrow a lot from one another. Sure, this saves development time, but the point is that there are several things a sword-user could do that haven't been explored yet. I don't think I've ever seen Meta Knight and Cloud get as much hate as the Links or the characters that draw from Marth. Maybe a character with a katana, rapier, dual blades or maybe another character with some extra mechanical layer (like Shulk) would also be less criticized.

Now, I don't know all that much about FE and don't necessarily agree with all of this, but these are some of the reasons I feel make people frustrated with FE in Smash.

 

[tenworldsguy]

I think it's safe to say that the Fire Emblem series has become a main star IP of Nintendo after it persevered through harsh times and grew to be this big. Fire Emblem has a Marth clone problem and not a sword problem, four of it's seven characters share the same build and moves. The sword is a weapon that can be used to fight in many different ways. It's Sakurai's own decision to reuse the same moveset over and over, and it's not because of the limit of the weapon and whatnot.

Personally I saw the immense FE hate to stem not from the likes of Roy and Lucina (though the latter was a hate sink to a degree for a while) but rather ignited from Corrin- a bland (in regards to personality) character added specifically as a marketing tool (doesn't help Fates was not seen as a particularly great game among the fans), despite the series already being really saturated in Smash. Once Corrin was added, I think the pot boiled over and the internet collectively turned their rage against FE as a whole, making even lesser additions (Chrom, an echo who was practically already in the game already between his moveset from Roy/Ike and model from Robin's FS) come with backlash. Making Lucina, often regarded as a useless clone, an echo was a good idea on Sakuri's part- cutting the FE reps down to just 5 in concept.
Really is a darn shame, there's some character archetypes from FE I would love to see in smash but the "sword man bad" mentality has impacted basically every potential FE newcomer in the future, even if they don't use a sword.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I didn't say it wasn't successful. I used the word "enough." People were comparing it to Pokemon when Pokemon makes Fire Emblem look like an ant.

There's a difference between a "dead" series like Castlevania and Banjo getting a character versus another franchise getting several.

I feel like the word dead is overused. Though I'm not sure what you mean by "dead", just that it's alive, but running on fumes? Cause that's an apt description of both series. They're both actually active in different ways. Banjo doesn't get new games, but they're pretty clearly using his IP over and over again via stuff like Rare Replay and the Merchandise. An IP is dead when they stop using it entirely. It's debatable whether or not constantly re-releasing stuff via a service counts as alive(like with Rare Replay), though. Castlevania is pretty much the opposite of dead, as it got a new game and a new show within the last few years.

I hope people realize that just cause the new item isn't a game, doesn't mean it's dead. That doesn't make any sense. The franchise is getting new stuff. How can it really be dead?

 

[blackghost]

if it HAS to be first party, what character is going to draw people in? Midna twili form? idk. If astral chains is a hit i think that would be an interesting addition that is both unique and Nintendo only.

im much more interested in seeing more third-party sepiroth coming out as DLC with FF7 remake, dante or some other capcom rep like monster hunter are all big enough character to generate the hype among people outside hardcore Nintendo fandom.

 

[TheGuv]

I'm gonna be evil's advocate and say there's 0% to Byleth to join, he's literally just another generic anime swordman of a franchise that has 7-8 characters, Corrin at least was unique, it would also bee a backstab to xenoblade fans to skip rex but put another fire emblem character of a game's not even out yet.

If anything i think it would be something like Nanokuru or Velvet.

 

[andree123]

if it HAS to be first party, what character is going to draw people in?

Sylux, because he is a character that nobody expects to be a playable and serves as a early advertisement for Metroid Prime 4.

 

[tenworldsguy]

While I am here, I might as well ask.
With the inclusion of Simon Belmont and rumors of Ryu, what other 80s mascots (actual mascots and not randos from popular games) are we missing? I am an uncultured swine so i don't know many 80s games outside those already in smash

 

[DarthEnderX]

I always felt the hate Pokemon and Fire Emblem character get quite silly and mostly is based on expecting other characters instead of them.

This is the first I'm hearing that Pokemon characters even get a bunch of hate.

The Fire Emblem character hate I consider fairly justified, not because the characters or the games are bad, but because the series simply doesn't deserve to have as many characters as it does based on it's popularity.

Mario and Pokemon are the two franchises with the most character in Smash, and are Nintendo's two biggest franchises. So it makes total sense.

Fire Emblem is the 3rd most represented franchise in Smash, and is like Nintendo's 10th most popular franchise. It simply doesn't warrant having the amount of characters that it does.