Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[DarthEnderX]

arbitrarily limiting character choices because of franchise popularity is a very good idea. won't come back to bite anyone in the *** at all. nope. its the perfect way to build your crossover roster.

Well if the result of not doing it that way is how we ended up in with the Fire Emblem situation we have in Smash, it sure as hell ain't worse.

most FE haters are really petty, reek of entitlement

The idea that the FE detractors are any more entitled than the FE fans supporting FE's 7(and counting) playable Smash characters is laughable.

 

[DutchPichu]

I mean, it's a niche and Japan-popular(?) franchise too...

I reaaaally want this. Tibby doesn't have a spirit, right? He is basicly the protagonist of Rhythm Paradise/Heaven Megamix.

 

[volbound1700]

I mean, that isn't exactly hard to do.

Than why are we getting clones or similar characters (notable for FE universe). Lucina and Chrom are semi-clones. Corrin still had a sword even though he plays slightly different, he is still too similar. Even Robin had a sword. In FE, you have archers, axe fighters, spear fighters, pure mages, etc. None of that appears in Smash.

I will state that Incineroar is different.

 

[Idon]

Than why are we getting clones or similar characters (notable for FE universe). Lucina and Chrom are semi-clones. Corrin still had a sword even though he plays slightly different, he is still too similar. Even Robin had a sword. In FE, you have archers, axe fighters, spear fighters, pure mages, etc. None of that appears in Smash.

I will state that Incineroar is different.

Because clones are easy to put in without devoting resources on making a new character.
That's how Roy got in and carried over, it's how Lucina got in and carried over, and it's how Chrom got in and might carry over.

As for unique characters, beyond their weapons, characters like Marth, Ike, and Robin fight in completely different ways.
If you want completely unique FE characters, you're going to have to devote resources to them, and I doubt that's happening for a while post Corrin.

 

[Door Key Pig]

I reaaaally want this. Tibby doesn't have a spirit, right? He is basicly the protagonist of Rhythm Paradise/Heaven Megamix.

(art by KimmotMan )
I mean hey, even if the supposed Smash 4 character was totally the Chorus Kids, maybe specifically for Ultimate they would pick the more recent (if still a few years old by now...) mascot that was the most "story-involved" of the bunch?

 

[Vrbtm]

arbitrarily limiting character choices because of franchise popularity is a very good idea.

This, but unironically.

And let's be real, if franchise popularity determined how many characters got in, we wouldn't have two EarthBound characters.

We'd have none.

As a Mother fan, I'd be okay with this.

 

[Nemuresu]

Yeah, gonna have to join the grumpy side and say that I don't want more Fire Emblem.

I don't care how much money Heroes make, game's already quite saturated. Why do I not complain about Mario or Pokémon then? Because Mario is Nintendo's ****ing mascot, and Pokémon is the most successful multimedia franchise out there. Fire Emblem? Doesn't have neither of that. I don't care for Heroes because Mario and Pokémon also have their own mobile apps yet we don't ever use that to call them "important".

If I'm going to pay for ad characters, I'd rather have brand-new stuff, not more coal for an already big flame.

 

[blackghost]

Acting like a mobile game doesnt matter in the modern game market is just being willfully ignorant. FEH is huge. its more than a solid game its a huge money maker and Nintendo is a business.
and if we honestly order modern Nintendo franchises by order of importance its 1. mario 2. pokemon 3. Zelda 4. Splatoon?? 5. FE?? 4 and 5 may be interchangeable but FE is that important these days to nintendo and it has the roster to pick from.
Honestly instead of doing warriors games for FE Nintendo should just ask namco to make a 3-d soulcalibur style game using FE characters. Its big enough for that and it would make the franchise get less pressure in smash inclusion.

 

[ROBnWatch]

And let's be real, if franchise popularity determined how many characters got in, we wouldn't have two EarthBound characters.


We'd have none.

C’mon man, why you gotta single out the series like that? (Not trying to start anything by the way.)

 

[MasterOfKnees]

I'm not generally opposed to a Fire Emblem newcomer, but I'm not generally supportive of it either, I treat it like any other franchise, there are characters from it that I want, and there are characters from it that I don't want. Black Knight would be the most hype newcomer they could include for me bar none, and I think Lyn and Micaiah would also be really cool, but I did not care for Robin or Corrin, and if we get Byleth I wouldn't really care for him either. I don't really care about franchise representation much, I support characters based on their individual qualities, so when talking about a series potentially getting a newcomer, I don't like to look at it as if it can only be black and white.

Obviously the characters that I'd like from Fire Emblem stand no chance though since the series' presence in Smash is driven almost entirely by how it can promote the newest title, which is where my problem with how it's handled in Smash lies. Fire Emblem still has a lot of iconic characters that aren't in Smash who could really add a lot to the game imo, but they're never going to get the chance. I liked Chrom's inclusion because he sort of broke that, he's only an echo and Awakening is still new-ish, but the reason for his inclusion was obviously due to his popularity above anything else.

I also feel that characters included primarily for promotional purposes are like a coin flip, usually they're planned before players even get the chance to try their game, so there's no way of knowing whether they'll be a hit or not. Sometimes they are, sometimes they're not, and sometimes we never get the chance to form an opinion either way because their games weren't even localized. That's not to say we should never get these kind of characters, I think they have their place, but I don't like when they're the only options, as is the case with Fire Emblem.

If you asked me right now whether I'd take a Fire Emblem newcomer as part of the pass, I wouldn't really know, because it's going to be a Three Houses character, and I obviously haven't had the chance to play that yet. I think my opinion on Byleth is unlikely to change since he's of a similar archetype to what we already have, even if they can make him play differently I'd like someone that's more visually striking compared to the other FE characters. Edelgard might grow on me since I'm planning to go with the Black Eagles, but it's one of those situations where it feels like a coin toss, right now I really can't say whether I think she'd be a cool character to have in Smash.

 

[blackghost]

C’mon man, why you gotta single out the series like that? (Not trying to start anything by the way.)

fine i'll add more there would be no ice climbers, no game and watch, no R.O.B and more sonic, metal gear, and more DK

 

[Opossum]

Than why are we getting clones or similar characters (notable for FE universe). Lucina and Chrom are semi-clones. Corrin still had a sword even though he plays slightly different, he is still too similar. Even Robin had a sword. In FE, you have archers, axe fighters, spear fighters, pure mages, etc. None of that appears in Smash.

I will state that Incineroar is different.

That's changing the subject. My point was that if a Fire Emblem newcomer happens for DLC, it'll undoubtedly be a Three Houses character. And of the four major characters they'd likely pick from, none of them would play like what we have now.

 

[Vycoul]

If you just look at a list of all Smash characters organized by series and don't think Fire Emblem's number of characters is even a little out of whack I don't know what to tell you.
I'll admit that FE Heroes is a wildly successful filthy mobile (jk) game, but it was over a year from releasing when FE got its sixth character.
It's just like... how many characters would it take for diehard Fire Emblem fans to think "Hey, that is a whole lot of characters."

Its not really justified, at least when it comes to the existing veterans: half of its roster were easy to make clones, it has the third largest amount of viable candidates (after the aforementioned Pokémon and Super Mario franchises), the two most redundant FE characters are the ones with the largest amount of actual starpower, and the Lords in general are all moderately popular characters within the Smash fanbase who fill a important gameplay niche for both casual and more seasoned players being the straightforward, easy to use swordsmen.

I don't buy that FE characters fill out sword archetypes. I mean, they do but it didn't have to be Fire Emblem characters who did so. There is no shortage of sword wielding characters in videogames, Nintendo-owned or otherwise.

And I certainly don't agree that Fire Emblem has "the third largest amount of viable candidates." That's just silly IMO. Donkey Kong still has Cranky and Dixie, Zelda has plenty of one-offs (the kind of characters that FE almost solely consists of) and potentially even more character variants like Toon Ganondorf, Kirby has a pretty big and widely requested amount of characters... And that's just off the top of my head. I don't agree with that statement in the least. But I hear it fairly frequently from FE fans. Even so, I still I won't say that you're petty or entitled.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

The big thing about FE is it's hard to represent it outside of characters because it barely has any viable items. Other than AT's, as is, which it has two. It doesn't even have a lot of stages. Besides that, it only ever had 4 unique characters, with 3 being clones, and were lucky to be on the roster. Another thing is that the series doesn't have a lot of characters who are in every game, so it's very hard to represent it beyond one-offs as is. A lot of them are able to use another character as a base to some degree. Though I don't think Ike used anyone for a base among the cast? I mean, yeah, he has a similar concept to Roy's B move, but that was it. Robin also was completely unique. Corrin used Ike for a base, though it's not like he was made as a semi-clone so much as just a starting bit. It's like how Mario was used to create Ness. Even Wolf is closer to Fox than the former two examples.

 

[volbound1700]

The issue with Fire Emblem is that it is over saturated. 3 stages and 7 characters. You take the DK or Kirby series that both have 3 characters each but are a lot bigger franchises for Nintendo than Fire Emblem. You get a lot of heat from their fanbases when FE characters keep getting added. You can say the same for Star Fox.

 

[Polan]

This, but unironically.

As a Mother fan, I'd be okay with this.

Well if the result of not doing it that way is how we ended up in with the Fire Emblem situation we have in Smash, it sure as hell ain't worse.

The idea that the FE detractors are any more entitled than the FE fans supporting FE's 7(and counting) playable Smash characters is laughable.

everyone gangsta till ridley gets cut cuz no one buys metroid games

 

[Opossum]

The big thing about FE is it's hard to represent it outside of characters because it barely has any viable items. Other than AT's, as is, which it has two. It doesn't even have a lot of stages. Besides that, it only ever had 4 unique characters, with 3 being clones, and were lucky to be on the roster. Another thing is that the series doesn't have a lot of characters who are in every game, so it's very hard to represent it beyond one-offs as is. A lot of them are able to use another character as a base to some degree. Though I don't think Ike used anyone for a base among the cast? I mean, yeah, he has a similar concept to Roy's B move, but that was it. Robin also was completely unique. Corrin used Ike for a base, though it's not like he was made as a semi-clone so much as just a starting bit. It's like how Mario was used to create Ness. Even Wolf is closer to Fox than the former two examples.

Definitely calling BS on the item thing. There are literally tons of potential items to pull from the games.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Definitely calling BS on the item thing. There are literally tons of potential items to pull from the games.

Weird they won't do so then.

Any examples?

 

[Idon]

Weird they won't do so then.

Any examples?

Any held "weapon item" could be used like the killing edge we already got, on top of boomerang style weapons that come back like handaxes. Also they could always interpret the spells as tomes/staves like the fireflower.

Stuff like that could pretty easily translate.

 

[Opossum]

Weird they won't do so then.

Any examples?

Things like the Devil Axe, Armorslayer, Javelin, and Hand Axe are incredibly recurring and have effects that transfer over extremely well. Not to mention various tomes, as well as status staves like Sleep and Berserk.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

The issue with Fire Emblem is that it is over saturated. 3 stages and 7 characters. You take the DK or Kirby series that both have 3 characters each but are a lot bigger franchises for Nintendo than Fire Emblem. You get a lot of heat from their fanbases when FE characters keep getting added. You can say the same for Star Fox.

I don't agree with the over saturation argument when used in comparison with the other series for a few reasons:

• Along with the Animal Crossing, and Xenoblade Chronicles series, Fire Emblem seems to have become one of Nintendo's most important franchises.
• While everyone recognizes Donkey Kong the character, the Donkey Kong Country series is quite niche.
• With two echo fighters, the Fire Emblem series really has about 5 1/2 characters.
• Pokémon is a bigger franchise, and people still complain. (Though oddly enough no one seems to complain about the Super Mario series.)

I do think it's reasonable that The Legend of Zelda and Kirby fans are upset about their series representation, but they shouldn't take it out on Fire Emblem and Pokémon. If a character is fun and adds something meaningful to the game, it shouldn't really matter where it comes from.

Weird they won't do so then.

Any examples?

Warp staff?

What if there was a Dragon Stone that turned a fighter into a dragon. That would be so cool!

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Things like the Devil Axe, Armorslayer, Javelin, and Hand Axe are incredibly recurring and have effects that transfer over extremely well. Not to mention various tomes, as well as status staves like Sleep and Berserk.

Please explain the effects. I have never played Fire Emblem outside of a tiny bit of the GameCube one. I slightly know how the Tomes work enough, but I don't remember anything else even among playthroughs I've seen.

The Staves are clear enough. I just don't know what effects for the rest that you mean. More details, please?

 

[Opossum]

Please explain the effects. I have never played Fire Emblem outside of a tiny bit of the GameCube one. I slightly know how the Tomes work enough, but I don't remember anything else even among playthroughs I've seen.

The Staves are clear enough. I just don't know what effects for the rest that you mean. More details, please?

Devil Axe - An immensely powerful Axe, but a cursed one. While it is deadly to the opponent, there is a chance that the wielder will be hurt instead, making it a high risk, high reward item.
Armorslayer - Heavy, almost club-like sword that, in Smash terms, causes heavy shield damage.
Javelin - A throwing lance. In Smash it'd be thrown in an arc, with aiming done similarly to the Cracker Launcher.
Hand Axe - Boomerang throwing axe.

Sleep Staff - Opponents in range get put to sleep.
Berserk Staff - Like the Team Healer, this would only appear in Team Battles. If Team Attack is off, enemies struck by the staff will be able to hit their teammate. If Team Attack is on, the damage done by the target hitting their teammate is doubled.

 

[DarthEnderX]

fine i'll add more there would be no ice climbers, no game and watch, no R.O.B and more sonic, metal gear, and more DK

Great. Ice Climbers, ROB and Game & Watch never should have been more than Assist Trophies. Neither should Duck Hunt or Wii Fit Trainer while we're at it.

And I'd have gladly traded them for Raiden, Zero, Black Mage, M. Bison and a Ganondorf that wasn't a Captain Falcon clone.

 

[Vrbtm]

everyone gansta till ridley gets cut cuz no one buys metroid games

I want Ridley cut, too. Sakurai was right from the beginning; playing as a pygmy version of him isn't cool or fun, and it's a terrible representation. He would've been better as a Classic mode boss. Metroid never needed more reps; Samus being a lone warrior is part of the appeal of her best games anyway.

Speaking as someone whose favorite game of all time is Super Metroid.

M. Bison

You edited this in from Chun-Li, but I think I'd actually prefer her more. I think she'd be more fun, and her moves translate to Smash a little better.

 

[volbound1700]

I don't agree with the over saturation argument when used in comparison with the other series for a few reasons:

• Along with the Animal Crossing, and Xenoblade Chronicles series, Fire Emblem seems to have become one of Nintendo's most important franchises.
• While everyone recognizes Donkey Kong the character, the Donkey Kong Country series is quite niche.
• With two echo fighters, the Fire Emblem series really has about 5 1/2 characters.
• Pokémon is a bigger franchise, and people still complain. (Though oddly enough no one seems to complain about the Super Mario series.)

I do think it's reasonable that The Legend of Zelda and Kirby fans are upset about their series representation, but they shouldn't take it out on Fire Emblem and Pokémon. If a character is fun and adds something meaningful to the game, it shouldn't really matter where it comes from.


Warp staff?

What if there was a Dragon Stone that turned a fighter into a dragon. That would be so cool!

I disagree, I don't think Fire Emblem is as big as you think. It is very niche. Donkey Kong is HUGE and is helped primarily by its connections to the Mario Universe (i.e. Donkey Kong appearing in Mario Kart, Sports, and Party games). The reason people don't complain about Mario is the characters are loveable and the series is HUGE. Mario is the #1 Video Game Franchise and it isn't close.

Mario Kart is typically the top seller on most of Nintendo's consoles. Then you have the Mario Platformer game which is typically in the top 5. Then you have Mario Party, Sports, and Mario & Sonic Olympics which are usually in the top 20.

Legend of Zelda and Smash are typically #2 and #3 after Mario Kart. Legend of Zelda probably needs a new non-Link character. I am surprised we haven't gotten Impa as a clone of Sheik.

 

[Vrbtm]

The only people who think Fire Emblem is popular (enough to have as many reps as it does) are people who are already fans of the series.

 

[Vycoul]

I don't agree with the over saturation argument when used in comparison with the other series for a few reasons:
-snip-
While everyone recognizes Donkey Kong the character, the Donkey Kong Country series is quite niche.
-snip-

...

If a character is fun and adds something meaningful to the game, it shouldn't really matter where it comes from.

For the record, I've personally gotten everything I want from Donkey Kong. I don't particularly want Cranky or Dixie, but Donkey Kong Country is not niche in the least.

DKC 1, 2, and 3 sold 9, 5, and 3 million copies respectively. All three of the Donkey Kong Land games on the Gameboy sold over a million.
Donkey Kong Country Returns sold 6 and a half million, and it's port to the 3DS sold 2 million. And Tropical Freeze sold over 3 and a half million copies combining it's Wii U and Switch games.

Those aren't the numbers of a niche series. Fire Emblem on the other hand, has yet to ever reach 3 million mark with any of it's games. (assuming these sales charts are accurate)
Again, I find DK's representation to be perfect, and I don't think sales should be the only factor when deciding what series gets newcomers, but still...

As for your last statement that I quoted; I see your point, but there are just so many different series to pull from.
And whether or not a character brings something unique and fun to the game almost always a matter of the developer's creativity, not the character themselves.

 

[Deathlightning21]

Those aren't the numbers of a niche series. Fire Emblem, on the other hand, has yet to ever reach 3 million mark with any of its games. (assuming these sales charts are accurate)

But, even though Fire Emblem has never reached sales numbers as close to some of Nintendo's bigger names, they still choose to market (how well is up to debate) the series to a wider audience. We can go back and forth about whether or not Fire Emblem Heroes sales count towards the series's overall 'success' but it does count towards getting more eyes on Fire Emblem as a recognizable brand in Nintendo's catalog. I've had friends and seen others who've never even touch a Fire Emblem game get into the series through checking out Heroes.

So, yes, while the series of Fire Emblem is overall niche, they have chosen to market and push it as one of they're mainstay series. Whether or not this will work in the long run is anyone's guess.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Great. Ice Climbers, ROB and Game & Watch never should have been more than Assist Trophies. Neither should Duck Hunt or Wii Fit Trainer while we're at it.

And I'd have gladly traded them for Raiden, Zero, Black Mage, M. Bison and a Ganondorf that wasn't a Captain Falcon clone.

First of all we definitely wouldn't have Black Mage or fully decloned Ganondorf due to Square Enix and design philosophies, and second, most of these characters wouldn't be as unique as the Ice Climbers or Mr. Game & Watch. And besides, just because a character isn't from a currently popular franchise doesn't mean they shouldn't be on the roster. The Ice Climbers, Mr. Game & Watch, and Duck Hunt celebrate Nintendo's past while the Wii Fit Trainer was from a then popular franchise (just not with the hard core gaming crowd).

The only people who think Fire Emblem is popular (enough to have as many reps as it does) are people who are already fans of the series.

You're right! I think Fire Emblem is popular because I like the series and not because they made Fire Emblem Fates, Fire Emblem Echoes: Shadows of Velantia, Fire Emblem Heroes (which is still getting support), Fire Emblem Warriors, and Fire Emblem: Three Houses in rapid succession because clearly the sheer number of games (and spin offs) from a single franchise in rapid succession is absolutely not the sign of a popular game series.

For the record, I've personally gotten everything I want from Donkey Kong. I don't particularly want Cranky or Dixie, but Donkey Kong Country is not niche in the least.

DKC 1, 2, and 3 sold 9, 5, and 3 million copies respectively. All three of the Donkey Kong Land games on the Gameboy sold over a million.
Donkey Kong Country Returns sold 6 and a half million, and it's port to the 3DS sold 2 million. And Tropical Freeze sold over 3 and a half million copies combining it's Wii U and Switch games.

Those aren't the numbers of a niche series. Fire Emblem on the other hand, has yet to ever reach 3 million mark with any of it's games. (assuming these sales charts are accurate)
Again, I find DK's representation perfect, and I don't think sales should be the only factor when deciding what series get's newcomers, but still...

Hm...For some reason I've always found the Donkey Kong Country series to be one of those flagship series that just kinda died a long time ago like Crash Bandicoot, and Banjo-Kazooie.

As for your last statement that I quoted; I see your point, but there are just so many different series to pull from. And whether or not a character brings something unique and fun to the game almost always a matter of the developer's creativity, not the character themselves.

That is true, and I do agree that there comes a point where enough is enough, but I personally don't think we've reached it yet. (We may be approaching it and should be careful what characters we add from Fire Emblem but I don't think we've reached it yet.)

 

[Kronch]

I think that, if cuts are happening in the future, we could easily eliminate numerous Fire Emblem characters and be fine. Marth, Roy, and Robin stay, everyone else leaves- I don't think we're losing too much. Adding more interesting Fire Emblem stages would make up for the loss.

Also, Dixie completely deserves to be in Smash- but those four characters (her and the three we already have) are all the representation Donkey Kong Country needs. I also genuinely think they could cut Dark Samus and/or Ridley and add Sylux next game. Ridley, at least, needs a complete rework as a fighter.

 

[Vrbtm]

You're right! I think Fire Emblem is popular because I like the series and not because they made Fire Emblem Fates, Fire Emblem Echoes: Shadows of Velantia, Fire Emblem Heroes (which is still getting support), Fire Emblem Warriors, and Fire Emblem: Three Houses in rapid succession because clearly the sheer number of games (and spin offs) from a single franchise in rapid succession is absolutely not the sign of a popular game series.

Which is why I stipulated "enough to have as many reps as it does," instead of just saying that it wasn't popular period.

So yes, I know. I am right. Thanks anyway.

 

[Idon]

I think that, if cuts are happening in the future, we could easily eliminate numerous Fire Emblem characters and be fine. Marth, Roy, and Robin stay, everyone else leaves- I don't think we're losing too much. Adding more interesting Fire Emblem stages would make up for the loss.

Also, Dixie completely deserves to be in Smash- but those four characters (her and the three we already have) are all the representation Donkey Kong Country needs. I also genuinely think they could cut Dark Samus and/or Ridley and add Sylux next game. Ridley, at least, needs a complete rework as a fighter.

You'd cut Ike, the most popular lord in the series and with a much more different moveset than Marth over Roy who is based on Marth and hasn't ever even gotten a Western release?

And you'd cut Dark Samus or Ridley, both of which are major villains for multiple games and fan favorites for Sylux, a character who hasn't even done anything as of yet?

 

[Vrbtm]

And you'd cut Dark Samus or Ridley for Sylux, a character who hasn't even done anything as of yet?

Yes.

 

[Idon]

Yes.

And as a sidenote, single quip responses like this aren't useful to anybody for anything.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I think that, if cuts are happening in the future, we could easily eliminate numerous Fire Emblem characters and be fine. Marth, Roy, and Robin stay, everyone else leaves- I don't think we're losing too much. Adding more interesting Fire Emblem stages would make up for the loss.

I fully expect the next game to reduce the Fire Emblem characters to Marth, Lucina, Robin, and Lin or Byleth or something.

Which is why I stipulated "enough to have as many reps as it does," instead of just saying that it wasn't popular period.

So yes, I know. I am right. Thanks anyway.

I'd say five and a half characters is totally fine for a series that they're at least pushing to be a main series.

So, you're not right. Not objectively at least. (Though I suppose being objectively correct is impossible since this argument is just people spitting out opinions at each other).
I also think I'm getting a bit too aggressive with my word choice. I better dial it down a bit.

I also genuinely think they could cut Dark Samus and/or Ridley and add Sylux next game. Ridley, at least, needs a complete rework as a fighter.

I don't think Ridley needs a rework so much as balance changes since his characterization is pretty good. Also why cut a clone character if the base character is still intact?

 

[Deleted member]

I find it funny that among the characters people cut first are the echoes. Like those characters are easy clones but the mere existence of them seem to annoy people.

Frankly there's currently no reason to cut characters like Daisy, Dark Pit, Lucina, Chrom, Dark Samus or Ken as long as you don't cut the main fighter.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I think many people would be much happier with FE representation if a couple of fixes were made:
• Cut Corrin - this would probably have happened if Ultimate wasn't Ultimate, but yeah. People hate Corrin, that won't change.
"That's still too many Fire Emblem characters."
• Cut two of the three Awakening characters - I get that Awakening basically revived the series, it's a great game, but three is still overkill. As for who to leave, either Chrom (for being the only one who got in due to fan demand) or Robin (because of his unique moveset). Sorry Lucina, but you got the worst of both worlds.
"But GoodGrief, you're cutting one or two of the few unique movesets the franchise has got!"
• Declone some characters - Marth and Ike can obviously stay the same. I think Roy is fine, but if need be he can be decloned further. Chrom (if he stays) should be completely reworked into his own unique moveset. It shouldn't be that hard.
"That's great for the people that don't want Fire Emblem, but what about the fans?"/"Just four characters is too few!"/"This leaves us with only blue-haired swordsmen."
• Start adding characters due to fan demand - Lyn alone fixes most of the complaints people have with Fire Emblem. Other characters like Hector and Black Knight come to mind. Just please, stop treating Smash like an advertisement and adding the latest characters only.

Basically, the ideal FE roster according to me: Marth, Roy, Ike, Chrom (fully decloned), Lyn. After this, I think there would be enough goodwill that people would start being okay with a Byleth joining in (provided they join a while after the game's release and are a liked character).

 

[Vrbtm]

I'd say five and a half characters is totally fine

You're being dishonest; echoes are not considered "half characters." They are full fledged characters of their own.

A half character would be someone like Alph.

And as a sidenote, single quip responses like this aren't useful to anybody for anything.

You asked a question and I answered it. You should be able to fill in the blanks. There's not many reasons why I'd take Sylux over Ridley and Dark Samus beyond me liking him more and thinking he's a better fit for the game.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I find it funny that among the characters people cut first are the echoes. Like those characters are easy clones but the mere existence of them seem to annoy people.

Frankly there's currently no reason to cut characters like Daisy, Dark Pit, Lucina, Chrom, Dark Samus or Ken as long as you don't cut the main fighter.

They're mad that echoes weren't used as a quick way to """""balance""""" the roster, but instead add popular characters who are similar enough to someone already playable.