Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[N3ON]

That only really applies to Brawl. At the end of Smash 4, the only missing clones were , while and (who needs more dev time than a simp clone) was still cut.

Lucas being brought back later doesn't mean he wasn't also cut. It's not like DLC was decided from the top as it probably was this time around. That's 1/3 of the cuts.

And three of those cuts were atypical considering technical limitations aren't a recurrent factor for veteran cuts. If the 3DS wasn't part of the picture, derivative characters would've constituted 2/3 of the cuts. Also, it would bring the original Nintendo character count down to zero.

The other third is from what I'm guessing will be the only category that can challenge derivative fighters going forward in terms of quantity of cuts, third-parties.

But I guess we can put a pin in it and see if any categories are disproportionately cut next time the axe comes down. My feeling is that there will be.

 

[Deleted member]

Most people consider them half characters. You're going to respond that you don't, and I'll probably respond that I don't care.

The number of FE characters is something that, to many people, negatively affects the quality of Smash. Sakurai apparently agrees. I think it's reductive to say that cutting characters isn't a solution to that problem, or that the problem is childish. It can be argued (I think FE is overrepped but I'd be fine with only Corrin cut) but at the end of the day a very large contingent of fans want those cuts and Smash has to try and satisfy as many people as much as it can.

Smash has to satisfy as many people as it can, I agree with that. But cutting characters means satisfying a part of the fanbase at the cost of another part of the fanbase which can result counter-intuitive as ultimately the variety of characters being in the game is what sells. That's one of the many reasons MvC:I failed, as the crossover factor diminished greatly. The problem is childish when the problem is the perception of a franchise and what needs to be cut just to satisfy a specific group.

 

[osby]

So, to talk about character additions instead of character cuts like this thread is supposed to be about: How do you think the last two characters will be picked? The ones that appeal to new audiences like DQ and Persona, or more that appeals to "hardcore" fans like Banjo?

 

[VashTehStampede]

So, to talk about character additions instead of character cuts like this thread is supposed to be about: How do you think the last two characters will be picked? The ones that appeal to new audiences like DQ and Persona, or more that appeals to "hardcore" fans like Banjo?

If they’re smart about it, they’ll announce the last two like they did banjo and hero. Cater to both the west and overseas at the same time to avoid mixed reactions.

 

[Deleted member]

So, to talk about character additions instead of character cuts like this thread is supposed to be about: How do you think the last two characters will be picked? The ones that appeal to new audiences like DQ and Persona, or more that appeals to "hardcore" fans like Banjo?

I could see a kinda niche character that satisfies a lot of fans alongside with one from a popular franchise.

I could see something like Phoenix Wright and Lara Croft for example. (Just for sanity sake, this is an example. I dont particularly think both are a sure thing, this is just an example)

 

[N3ON]

If they’re smart about it, they’ll announce the last two like they did banjo and hero. Cater to both the west and overseas at the same time to avoid mixed reactions.

That, and, if they're smart they'll announce both simultaneously to cut off the rising expectations, inevitable blowback and scapegoating that happen when people invest all their hopes in a single unannounced character. Especially if that last reveal happens to be anything but a highly popular choice.

I don't think they will though. I think four is getting announced in the September Direct and five in December or, at the latest, a January Direct.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Smash has to satisfy as many people as it can, I agree with that. But cutting characters means satisfying a part of the fanbase at the cost of another part of the fanbase which can result counter-intuitive as ultimately the variety of characters being in the game is what sells. That's one of the many reasons MvC:I failed, as the crossover factor diminished greatly. The problem is childish when the problem is the perception of a franchise and what needs to be cut just to satisfy a specific group.

I think there's a way to cut characters while at the same time satisfying the fans of those characters. It's not like Fire Emblem fans unanimously agree that representation is perfect as is.

 

[Nemuresu]

So, to talk about character additions instead of character cuts like this thread is supposed to be about: How do you think the last two characters will be picked? The ones that appeal to new audiences like DQ and Persona, or more that appeals to "hardcore" fans like Banjo?

One of each I'm betting.

 

[Koopaul]

Looking at the FE debate a few pages ago it reminded me of something I thought of a while back: "It is inevitable that Smash would pit fanbases against each other".

What that means is that one fanbase will be jealous over another. "Why does x have more characters than y?!"

Somebody earlier in this thread said that the only way to be fair is that the amount of characters each franchise gets is based on popularity... I sort of agree. There should be some grey area, but yeah, that would end a lot of these debates and prevent the fanbases from getting at eachothers throats.

That being said, niche/weird series are always welcome to have a character. I don't want Smash to be a popularity contest. There are amazing characters out there you might have never heard of. Afterall, Fire Emblem was completely unknown when Marth was introduced in Melee. But there's a point where you say to yourself "Maybe I should stop and focus on something else" by the time you got your seventh fighter.

 

[Animegamingnerd]

Okay I got a theory on which companies have the last two slots, while I am not 100% sure on which characters it will be. I think the last two reps will be from Bandai Namco and Koei Tecmo.

In Bandai Namco's case, I find it strange that Capcom, Konami, Sega (if you count Joker and Bayonetta as Sega characters) have 3 characters and Square Enix will soon have another. Meanwhile Bandai Namco was the developer of the game and they only have 1 rep which has been kind of strange to me. So this is leading me to believe that we will see a Bandai Namco in the fighter pass, hell if Nintendo is planning an EVO reveal it could be a Tekken character likely someone from the Mishima family like Kazuya, Heihachi, or Jin. As a way to appeal to the FGC since Tekken and Smash will both be having their grand finals on August possibly even back to back.

The last rep I think will be a Tecmo Koei, Nintendo has collaborated with them more then any other third party publisher in recent years. Here is a list of times they have worked together on something within this decade.

Metroid Other M
Hyrule Warriors
Fatal Frame 5
Fire Emblem Warriors
Marvel Ultimate Alliance 3
Fire Emblem Three Houses

Those are some pretty big projects to work together on, especially that first and last one since they trust them to be a co-developer on a main line entry in two major series of their's and yet they don't have a rep in Smash yet outside of that Fatal Frame assist trophy, so I wouldn't be shock if either Kasumi from Dead or Alive or Ryu from Ninja Gaiden show up in Smash.

 

[OrpheusTelos]

So, to talk about character additions instead of character cuts like this thread is supposed to be about: How do you think the last two characters will be picked? The ones that appeal to new audiences like DQ and Persona, or more that appeals to "hardcore" fans like Banjo?

I definitely think they're gonna go for new audiences with the last two. It's clear that Nintendo is trying to expand Smash's playerbase with these characters instead of advertising to people they know will already buy their games, which is why they've been pulling from outside Smash's usual demographics instead of going for the obvious Fire Emblem/Pokemon character. Even Banjo & Kazooie, a long-time darling of hardcore Smash speculation, could bring in a new audience of people who haven't touched a Nintendo console since the N64 or convince Xbox owners to pick up a Switch because of Microsoft's buddy-buddy relationship with Nintendo. Personally I think this approach is absolutely genius from a marketing standpoint. It brings in new players to Smash, it expands the game's potential newcomer pool, and it keeps discussion on who the next character might be a lot more interesting than if Nintendo strictly took the advertising approach.

 

[blackghost]

Hey, I'm not trying to be bitter or attack anyone; Roy has an iconic factor as a part of the Smash series, which I don't think Ike has. I didn't know he was popular, but I don't see people in the Smash community going wild for him whereas just about everyone likes Roy. As for Lucina (someone else commented about her), I think that Marth and Lucina together have a strange influence on the meta. One is always made completely irrelevant by the other, and to be honest, I much prefer watching and playing Marth over Lucina. I think most people agree.
.

you are approaching this strictly as a smash fan. that's not how character selection has ever worked. Roy honestly is lucky to be in smash at all. His game is average. he is average within the game, and he has not had very much impact in the series down the sequels. Roy is not popular or important to FE as a series and mostly has his base of smash players. Marth, ike, celica, lucina, lyn, even hector and the black knight stand head and should above roy for the FE fanbase.

no not everyone likes roy or his inclusion in smash players claims to like roy but they dont know anything about him there love of the character is based on an overplayed crowd chant and nostalgia. The dislike of corrin as a smash inclusion has never made sense to me. corrin is a shapeshifting sword user wieding a unique blade and has unique mechanics. Chrome and roy and lucina inclusions as "semi marths" is the real culprit for FE fatigue. these characters should have been different

as to who will be selected I think we will see a massively popular character that has east and west appeal and that is a very small group: dante, sepiroth, or 2b and we may also see someone like shantae, laura, chun-li, or female monster hunter as the other. My reasoning is that this banjo nostalgia trip is to give some fans some satisfaction before newer characters take the spotlight back under the next dlc.

people are always gonna be mad mostly because many Nintendo fans and smash fans choose to not acknowledge new game series and trends. When i read people claim games like FE are niche franchise it tells me they are choosing to ignore the changing times and ignore japan entirely. Things change 4 years ago monster hunter was niche then world came out, doom remake, same with FF with FF7, and now FE post radiant. even a game like devil may cry received mainstream recognition these days.

 

[Vrbtm]

Not even. You can make them share selection spots with their originals, and they don't get their own fighter number.

Yet they still get their own Fighter Spirits, because they are considered to be separate characters. Why the **** would their NUMBER matter at all?

no not everyone likes roy or his inclusion in smash players claims to like roy but they dont know anything about him there love of the character is based on an overplayed taunt.

Guilty as charged. Still haven't even played a Fire Emblem game.

 

[Opossum]

Roy is not popular or important to FE as a series and mostly has his base of smash players.

In the first Choose Your Legends event for Fire Emblem Heroes in 2017, Roy ranked as the second most popular male Fire Emblem character, second only to Ike. It's baffling to me that people STILL claim that Roy is an unpopular character.

 

[Idon]

In the first Choose Your Legends event for Fire Emblem Heroes in 2017, Roy ranked as the second most popular male Fire Emblem character, second only to Ike. It's baffling to me that people STILL claim that Roy is an unpopular character.

Well, you can't really say if Roy's popular because of Smash or not because that's how most of the Western world experiences him (And yes, the same could probably be said about Ike, but he managed to make top ten twice with both games actually reaching Western shores, with his first game coming out 3 years before Brawl and his second 1 year before).

Roy comes from a yet-to-be-localized, Japanese only GBA game that isn't available except through:

1. Learning a new language and importing a retro copy or
2. What Nintendo deems highly illegal, emulation.

So it's hard to say if his fanbase is "legitimate" in the context of "fans of Fire Emblem" or if he's banking off Smash appeal.
And even if he was majorly popular on account on a hypothetical massive influx of people emulating his game, it's impossible to say that Smash didn't at least play a major part in influencing people to do so in the first place.

 

[N3ON]

In the first Choose Your Legends event for Fire Emblem Heroes in 2017, Roy ranked as the second most popular male Fire Emblem character, second only to Ike. It's baffling to me that people STILL claim that Roy is an unpopular character.

He's popular, but to think Smash wasn't the guiding hand in that would be a bit naive. Look at all the other Japan-only lords.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Yeah, it's too bad "Everyone is here" can't really happen again without all of the other content regressing, obliterating the newcomer count, or just in general due to licensing.

Why can't it?

It's one of their best selling games. As with Pokemon, there's no excuse to not give the series all of the resources it needs.

 

[Koopaul]

Sakurai said this game was a miracle. They were only able to make Ultimate because it came off the heels of Smash Wii U and he had the same team, resources, and connections with 3rd parties. It is highly unlikely we will have another Smash that has everyone. Ultimate is a creation of circumstances. If the Wii U didn't bomb it might have never happened.

 

[GoodGrief741]

players claims to like roy but they dont know anything about him

Ah yes, good old gatekeeping. People think they like Roy, but that like doesn't matter because *insert noise here*.

The dislike of corrin as a smash inclusion has never made sense to me.

I thought you were telling people that they should look at things from a FE fan standpoint rather than a Smash fan standpoint?

Fates is generally considered the low point of the franchise, at least by old school FE fans, and Corrin is a widely hated character.

Yet they still get their own Fighter Spirits, because they are considered to be separate characters. Why the **** would their NUMBER matter at all?

The fighter number doesn't matter, but Fighter Spirits do? That's arbitrary selection.

Also, if having a Fighter Spirit means you're a separate character, then that means Builder Mario, Male Wii Fit Trainer, each individual Koopaling, Student Joker, Advent Children Cloud, Alph, Wario in overalls, Pikachu Libre, Crafted Yoshi, Meta Ridley, etc are all separate characters?

Well, you can't really say if Roy's popular because of Smash or not because that's how most of the Western world experiences him (And yes, the same could probably be said about Ike, but he managed to make top ten twice with both games actually reaching Western shores, with his first game coming out 3 years before Brawl and his second 1 year before).

Roy comes from a yet-to-be-localized, Japanese only GBA game that isn't available except through:

1. Learning a new language and importing a retro copy or
2. What Nintendo deems highly illegal, emulation.

So it's hard to say if his fanbase is "legitimate" in the context of "fans of Fire Emblem" or if he's banking off Smash appeal.
And even if he was majorly popular on account on a hypothetical massive influx of people emulating his game, it's impossible to say that Smash didn't at least play a major part in influencing people to do so in the first place.

To be fair, Corrin had virtually the same situation as Roy (and Marth) and the reception was night and day. So I think it'd be remiss to not acknowledge that part of his popularity is due to his own character as well.

 

[Opossum]

He's popular, but to think Smash wasn't the guiding hand in that would be a bit naive. Look at all the other Japan-only lords.

Oh there's no doubt that Smash is the main reason. He's still popular, though. That'd be like saying Captain Falcon is unpopular, otherwise.

 

[Idon]

Why can't it?

It's one of their best selling games. As with Pokemon, there's no excuse to not give the series all of the resources it needs.

Because that's not how fighting games can possibly allocate resources.

Unlike Pokemon, there are major changes made in models, animations, entirely new moves, balance, and whatever else I forget to mention for a new console generation. All of which also have to be put under a microscope and actually balanced somewhat. Every added character that you choose to carry over is an extra load on the development team and more money used.
There's a reason why Sakurai explicitly said "Because we're getting everyone, don't expect a lot of newcomers" and why there are far more clones tantamount to their original in this game than any other and why trophies had to be cut as well.

Look at any other fighting game and you'll see why so many linger on their current versions with titled updates before making a huge leap, that huge leap usually coming at the cost of a large portion of characters. In fact, some games like Blazblue has actually yet to make a leap that huge.

To be fair, Corrin had virtually the same situation as Roy (and Marth) and the reception was night and day. So I think it'd be remiss to not acknowledge that part of his popularity is due to his own character as well.

Well yeah, but that's because Female Corrin's the breadwinner in that specific situation and she's 5th place in that poll for God knows why. I think Corrin's reception's so bad on account of actually selling overseas and VERY well (with a lot of help from Smash of course) meaning A LOT of people got to experience their character firsthand and dislike it.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Well yeah, but that's because Female Corrin's the breadwinner in that specific situation and she's 5th place in that poll for God knows why. I think Corrin's reception's so bad on account of actually selling overseas and VERY well (with a lot of help from Smash of course) meaning A LOT of people got to experience their character firsthand and dislike it.

I think you can blame the blatant waifuism that plagues the gacha genre for Fem!Corrin's popularity.

But I agree, Fates being the follow-up to Awakening meant that many got to experience it, and therefore many were exposed to... Whatever Corrin's character is.

 

[Nquoid]

All of this is Fire Emblem talk, so I've decided to split my take into two main topics:

Spoiler: Fire Emblem Talk

The thing with Fire Emblem in Smash is how symbiotic those two series are. Fire Emblem is probably the worst implemented series in all of Smash after Zelda at this point. But why it happened actually makes a lot of sense.

Marth was added as a standard Fire Emblem rep, then they decided to add a clone with Roy to bolster the roster. Obviously complicated by being a pick from a game that hadn't currently launched.

Then in between Melee and Brawl, Fire Emblem comes to the West, Roy gets dropped from the roster but they replace him with Ike because of the aforementioned availability in the west.

Then suddenly in between Brawl and 4, Awakening launches, is the most successful and critically acclaimed Fire Emblem game ever. We get a third unique Fire Emblem character, but also Lucina as a clone of Marth to represent the standard lord class.

I think this is the biggest failing of SSB4. The roster reaches a lot for more recent games. And Lucina and Dark Pit are the kind of clones that rankle people. THEN as DLC we get another Marth-clone with Roy returning (but retooled) and also Corrin who's game hadn't even launched in the West at that point.

If you cut Corrin and Roy from ever being added, I do think the response to Fire Emblem would be a lot less vitriolic (we'll never drop the 'too many sword fighters' thing)

Spoiler: Franchise Representation Talk

At this point, the 1st party franchises with multiple wholly unique fighters are:

Pokemon 9
Mario 6
Fire Emblem 4
Donkey Kong 3
Kirby 3
Metroid 3
The Legend of Zelda 3
Kid Icarus 2

with Star Fox, Earthbound & Animal Crossing having characters based upon other fighters to varying degrees also

Which seems like it does actually reflect Nintendo's publishing goals. Fire Emblem has become a very important franchise to Nintendo, and a big part of that is exposure through Smash, so it makes sense to be disproportionate, even though I think the actually deployment has been massively skewed by the proliferation of characters stemming from Marth (the same issue with Zelda characters, which really should have more than Link, Zelda and Sheik as unique movesets).

Donkey Kong is actually very well represented comparatively, it just seems like it's been left in the dirt because Fire Emblem gets a new character every game. Which stems from 1) having a fresh cast every game, 2) having strong Smash ties from Melee & 3) exploding in popularity during Smash's life cycle.

We'd be looking at a very different roster if Nintendo had held off until Fire Emblem Awakening launched, but we didn't so we have these characters from two different eras of a franchise that has only just started meaning a lot to Nintendo's publishing slate.

 

[Ornl]

I find it strange that Capcom, Konami, Sega (if you count Joker and Bayonetta as Sega characters) have 3 characters and Square Enix will soon have another. If Nintendo is planning an EVO reveal it could be a Tekken character likely someone from the Mishima family like Kazuya, Heihachi, or Jin.

According to the top 100 favorite games by Famitsu readers in 2017, Sega at the top, followed by Squenix.
Sega 20% - Squenix 17% - Konami 12% - Nintendo 11% - Atlus 7% - Spike Chunsoft 5% - Bamco 4% - Capcom 4% - Sony 3% - Koei Tecmo 2%.

Tekken is already in Ultimate ^^

 

[KingBroly]

Smash has to satisfy as many people as it can, I agree with that. But cutting characters means satisfying a part of the fanbase at the cost of another part of the fanbase which can result counter-intuitive as ultimately the variety of characters being in the game is what sells. That's one of the many reasons MvC:I failed, as the crossover factor diminished greatly. The problem is childish when the problem is the perception of a franchise and what needs to be cut just to satisfy a specific group.

The next Smash is going to upset a lot of people because it won't have the roster of Ultimate. It simply can't; what's being done here will never be done again. The next Smash game, whenever it is, will likely have only 30-40 characters out of the gate.

 

[Nquoid]

According to the top 100 favorite games by Famitsu readers in 2017, Sega at the top, followed by Squenix.
Sega 20% - Squenix 17% - Konami 12% - Nintendo 11% - Atlus 7% - Spike Chunsoft 5% - Bamco 4% - Capcom 4% - Sony 3% - Koei Tecmo 2%.

But if I take this completely different list then the publisher break down looks like this:

Nintendo 27%
2K Games8%
Square Enix 8%
Sony 7%
Capcom 6%
EA 6%
Valve 6%
Bethesda 5%
Microsoft 5%
Blizzard 4%
Konami 3%
Lucasarts 2%
Namco 2%
Ubisoft 2%
Warner Bros 2%
Activision 1%
Atari 1%
CDProjektRed 1%
Independent 1%
Interplay 1%
Sega 1%
Telltale 1%

Using a fan voted on list, especially one from a single country, with as obvious a recency bias as that one doesn't really prove anything of substance other than "Famitsu readers liked these games when asked in 2017"

 

[Flyboy]

I think many people would be much happier with FE representation if a couple of fixes were made:
• Cut Corrin - this would probably have happened if Ultimate wasn't Ultimate, but yeah. People hate Corrin, that won't change.
"That's still too many Fire Emblem characters."
• Cut two of the three Awakening characters - I get that Awakening basically revived the series, it's a great game, but three is still overkill. As for who to leave, either Chrom (for being the only one who got in due to fan demand) or Robin (because of his unique moveset). Sorry Lucina, but you got the worst of both worlds.
"But GoodGrief, you're cutting one or two of the few unique movesets the franchise has got!"
• Declone some characters - Marth and Ike can obviously stay the same. I think Roy is fine, but if need be he can be decloned further. Chrom (if he stays) should be completely reworked into his own unique moveset. It shouldn't be that hard.
"That's great for the people that don't want Fire Emblem, but what about the fans?"/"Just four characters is too few!"/"This leaves us with only blue-haired swordsmen."
• Start adding characters due to fan demand - Lyn alone fixes most of the complaints people have with Fire Emblem. Other characters like Hector and Black Knight come to mind. Just please, stop treating Smash like an advertisement and adding the latest characters only.

Basically, the ideal FE roster according to me: Marth, Roy, Ike, Chrom (fully decloned), Lyn. After this, I think there would be enough goodwill that people would start being okay with a Byleth joining in (provided they join a while after the game's release and are a liked character).

For me, the easiest way to "fix" Fire Emblem is to add Anna. She has a presence throughout the series, could use rogue moves, throwing axes, and more, and personally she's one of my favorite units in Awakening.

I'm in a weird position with Corrin in that I dislike them because Fates made me wildly uncomfortable pre-release and despite my roommate loving it in the end I can't shake that stigma. That said, I'd rather repurpose Corrin's moveset somehow rather than cut everything about them them entirely. Maybe onto another Manakete character since that is why they chose Corrin in the first place? I'm not sure. Something to think about.

So, to talk about character additions instead of character cuts like this thread is supposed to be about: How do you think the last two characters will be picked? The ones that appeal to new audiences like DQ and Persona, or more that appeals to "hardcore" fans like Banjo?

I firmly believe the investor meeting quote of wanting new demographics in Smash means that the last two will appeal to something like a casual, simulation, female, working adult, etc audience and a hardcore, edgy, possibly m-rated audience, respectively.

When I think of the first category I think of things like Phoenix Wright, Professor Layton, Style Savvy, Brain Age, Minecraft, Story of Seasons, Okami, Katamari Damacy, or even popular cross-demographic games like Undertale.

As for the second category, I think Resident Evil, Doom, No More Heroes, Tekken, King of Fighters, Nier Automata, Assassin's Creed, or even Astral Chain . Or if they really want to be crazy, James Bond.

To simplify it further I feel we'll get one "cute" character and one "cool" character.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

For me, the easiest way to "fix" Fire Emblem is to add Anna. She has a presence throughout the series, could use rogue moves, throwing axes, and more, and personally she's one of my favorite units in Awakening.

I could see her having a weapon break mechanic similar to Robin except she mostly only carries physical weapons. She could then buy special moves from another Anna, giving her a wide variety of special moves from Throwing Axes to Warp Staves. I'd imagine her design would be unique to Super Smash Bros. as well, or all of her costumes could be the different character designs she's had over the years.

 

[tenworldsguy]

Real quicky, an unrelated topic.

In this post-Banjo world we live in, it ain't much a stretch to assume Steve is out of the Smash DLC lineup. And with Shovel Knight and Shantae being deconfirmed as well (Hat Kid too but Hat Kid wasn't getting in anyways), we only have a few potential Indie options for DLC.

That being said (ignoring the Undertale Elephant in the room), I ask- how popular are Quote (Cave Story) and Reimu (Touhou) in the East and West? I have a friend who claims that Touhou is in Japan, but i don't have any way to really prove it (I do know it's extremely niche here tho). Similarly, I have no idea how popular Quote is in either, but I can assume CS is at least popular enough in both to get remakes and featured in Indie crossovers all the time. I make bold claims and state he is the one who really ignited Indie games but Reimu might be that one and I don't really know
Anyone willin to help?

I could see her having a weapon break mechanic similar to Robin except she mostly only carries physical weapons. She could then buy special moves from another Anna, giving her a wide variety of special moves from Throwing Axes to Warp Staves. I'd imagine her design would be unique to Super Smash Bros. as well, or all of her costumes could be the different character designs she's had over the years.

also an axe user, especially a throwable axe user, would def help combat the "sword man bad" stigma a lil, tho the smash fans will prolly still complain bc FE

 

[Door Key Pig]

They also left “riddles” for Banjo and Link’s Awakening. They’re Sabi’s Nintendo source.

So why can't they just tell us what the character is to enforce their legitimacy? Making a riddle just allows some a little room for them to turn around and say "see, it was totally this character because of THIS connection to the riddle I totally didn't come up with!" Plus, apparently Nolan from the Pizza Party Podcast knew about Banjo before he got it, so that isn't exactly special...

 

[Ornl]

Using a fan voted on list, especially one from a single country, with as obvious a recency bias as that one doesn't really prove anything of substance other than "Famitsu readers liked these games when asked in 2017"

Sakurai work for Famitsu in a bi-monthly column.
Bamco and Koei Tecmo are less mentioned by Famitsu readers:
- top 10 on each console 2016 (Final Fantasy appears 17 times, Mario 15, Dragon Quest 12, Pokémon 9, SMT/Persona 9, Zelda 6, Monster Hunter 6, Kirby 5, Metal Gear 5, Resident Evil 5, Sakura Wars 5...),
- top 20 compagnies 2016 (Nintendo, Squenix, Capcom, Konami, Sega, Pokemon, Sony then Bamco and Koei Tecmo),
- top 100 2017 (Persona 5, Dragon Quest III, Nier: Automata),
- top 20 non-japanese readers 2018 (Persona 5, Nier: Automata, Dark Souls),
- top 20 2019 (Chrono Trigger, TLoZ: Breath of the Wild, Nier: Automata).

Persona 5 and Dragon Quest III are top1 and top2 in 2017. Joker is the first DLC, and Hero the second. If Famitsu may not be a direct link, the choices of the 2 first Ultimate DLC are consistent with the 2017 preferences. Ryu is also consistent with the Famitsu preferences of the fighting game series.
Then, Banjo is a ballot choice, referring to another type of preference: the Smash community poll.
Anyway, the fact that Bamco and Koei Tecmo work with Nintendo doesn't mean that these companies have more chances for DLC.

 

[Nquoid]

Anyway, the fact that Bamco and Koei Tecmo work with Nintendo doesn't mean that these companies have more chances for DLC.

You've contradicted yourself in the same post.

Bamco and Koei Tecmo are less mentioned by Famitsu readers:
- top 20 compagnies 2016 (Nintendo, Squenix, Capcom, Konami, Sega, Pokemon, Sony then Bamco and Koei Tecmo)

Sony, Bamco, Koei are the three companies not currently in Smash and Capcom is the only other one who didn't get an original fighter in Ultimate.

I agree there aren't any particular games from Bamco or Koei Tecmo that stick out in Famitsu polls. But you're using a very small sample size as the basis for every decision in Smash.

The only character I've seen you openly support is Lara Croft, who is 100% not backed up by anything that you've just posted.

 

[3BitSaurus]

For me, the easiest way to "fix" Fire Emblem is to add Anna. She has a presence throughout the series, could use rogue moves, throwing axes, and more, and personally she's one of my favorite units in Awakening.

I'm in a weird position with Corrin in that I dislike them because Fates made me wildly uncomfortable pre-release and despite my roommate loving it in the end I can't shake that stigma. That said, I'd rather repurpose Corrin's moveset somehow rather than cut everything about them them entirely. Maybe onto another Manakete character since that is why they chose Corrin in the first place? I'm not sure. Something to think about.

I firmly believe the investor meeting quote of wanting new demographics in Smash means that the last two will appeal to something like a casual, simulation, female, working adult, etc audience and a hardcore, edgy, possibly m-rated audience, respectively.

When I think of the first category I think of things like Phoenix Wright, Professor Layton, Style Savvy, Brain Age, Minecraft, Story of Seasons, Okami, Katamari Damacy, or even popular cross-demographic games like Undertale.

As for the second category, I think Resident Evil, Doom, No More Heroes, Tekken, King of Fighters, Nier Automata, Assassin's Creed, or even Astral Chain . Or if they really want to be crazy, James Bond.

To simplify it further I feel we'll get one "cute" character and one "cool" character.

My personal prediction is: DLC #4 is a Capcom character, DLC #5 is a fighting game character.

I think it makes sense. Not because of any theories and whatnot, but because Capcom has way too many interesting characters and too much investment in Smash to not triple dip franchises (quadruple dip, if you count Rathalos). Especially with Resident Evil and Ace Attorney among the top contenders. I can see it going 50-50, because RE has more presence and possible characters than AA and we don't know if Sakurai would view a potential Phoenix moveset and/or how to represent RE faithfully as a challenge or a chore.

As for the fighting game character... if you take away the Capcom contenders and if Lloyd's Mii Costume comes with Hero, then we'll see a spike in Heihachi's chances. Even in the case that Sakurai still isn't satisfied with the 3D mechanics translation, we still have SNK to pull from. So we'll suddenly have quite a few contenders from the fighting game genre. That, and I still think the Akira and Jacky costumes will come back, and the best way to do so is with a fighting game character. That's what I think anyway.

 

[PLATINUM7]

Sony, Bamco, Koei are the three companies not currently in Smash and Capcom is the only other one who didn't get an original fighter in Ultimate.

Does mean nothing to you?

 

[Ornl]

The only character I've seen you openly support is Lara Croft, who is 100% not backed up by anything that you've just posted.

Ok, it becomes personal -__-
Except for any ballot choice, support ≠rating !

I make bold claims and state he is the one who really ignited Indie games but Reimu might be that one and I don't really know
Anyone willin to help?

Google Trends may possibly give a first insight into popularity in Japan :/. Here is to compare Cave Story / Touhou / Undertale / Minecraft.

 

[Nquoid]

Does mean nothing to you?

Sorry that should have been "no new fighters in Ultimate"

 

[Wunderwaft]

Real quicky, an unrelated topic.

In this post-Banjo world we live in, it ain't much a stretch to assume Steve is out of the Smash DLC lineup. And with Shovel Knight and Shantae being deconfirmed as well (Hat Kid too but Hat Kid wasn't getting in anyways), we only have a few potential Indie options for DLC.

That being said (ignoring the Undertale Elephant in the room), I ask- how popular are Quote (Cave Story) and Reimu (Touhou) in the East and West? I have a friend who claims that Touhou is in Japan, but i don't have any way to really prove it (I do know it's extremely niche here tho). Similarly, I have no idea how popular Quote is in either, but I can assume CS is at least popular enough in both to get remakes and featured in Indie crossovers all the time. I make bold claims and state he is the one who really ignited Indie games but Reimu might be that one and I don't really know
Anyone willin to help?

Touhou is easily more popular than Cave Story, no arguments about it. It gets yearly conventions that are solely dedicated to the series and it's fan made content. In terms of legacy Touhou even outshines Cave Story. Touhou has been around longer than Cave Story for about 8 years, and during that time it helped shape up the modern doujin market that we know of today. The series was an inspiration for Undertale, Toby Fox said as much. The Touhou series was even inducted in the Guinness World Records for being the "most prolific fan made shooter series" back in 2010.

 

[Nquoid]

Ok, it becomes personal -__-
Except for any ballot choice, support ≠rating !

Sorry, don't mean to make it personal. Just trying to say that using Famitsu as the goal posts cuts out any character more popular in the west.

So based on your original posting of the 2017 famitsu poll, the most popular games from companies not currently in Smash are Danganronpa and Fate. Which would be a very weird way to end the pass.

But I assume that's not what you're saying? Just that KT and BN don't have particularly popular single games for the pass?

 

[tenworldsguy]

Ok, it becomes personal -__-
Except for any ballot choice, support ≠rating !



Google Trends may possibly give a first insight into popularity in Japan :/. Here is to compare Cave Story / Touhou / Undertale / Minecraft.

in Japan, Touhou was a lil under MC in popularity and a lil over Undertale.
Here (assuming you are a fellow member of FREEDOM NATION ((AMERICA!))), both Touhou and Cave Story are really obscure, to the point of CS not even having a visible line. UT is about as popular as Touhou is in Japan, and MC is super popular, as you know.
Both cases CS are utterly obscure : (

Touhou is easily more popular than Cave Story, no arguments about it. It gets yearly conventions that are solely dedicated to the series and it's fan made content. In terms of legacy Touhou even outshines Cave Story. Touhou has been around longer than Cave Story for about 8 years, and during that time it helped shape up the modern doujin market that we know of today. The series was an inspiration for Undertale, Toby Fox said as much. The Touhou series was even inducted in the Guinness World Records for being the "most prolific fan made shooter series" back in 2010.

 

[Ornl]

Sorry, don't mean to make it personal. Just trying to say that using Famitsu as the goal posts cuts out any character more popular in the west.

So based on your original posting of the 2017 famitsu poll, the most popular games from companies not currently in Smash are Danganronpa and Fate. Which would be a very weird way to end the pass.

But I assume that's not what you're saying? Just that KT and BN don't have particularly popular single games for the pass?

Yes, pretty much. I say that Bamco and Koei Tecmo haven't more chance than other compagnies because of BN / KT content is would be missing. I say that the Famitsu + ballot polls are consistent with Joker, Hero and Banjo. I don't know what other poll type really values BN / KT.