Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Kronch]

You'd cut Ike, the most popular lord in the series and with a much more different moveset than Marth over Roy who is based on Marth and hasn't ever even gotten a Western release?

And you'd cut Dark Samus or Ridley for Sylux, a character who hasn't even done anything as of yet?

Hey, I'm not trying to be bitter or attack anyone; Roy has an iconic factor as a part of the Smash series, which I don't think Ike has. I didn't know he was popular, but I don't see people in the Smash community going wild for him whereas just about everyone likes Roy. As for Lucina (someone else commented about her), I think that Marth and Lucina together have a strange influence on the meta. One is always made completely irrelevant by the other, and to be honest, I much prefer watching and playing Marth over Lucina. I think most people agree.

And yes, I think Dark Samus is so similar to Samus that she should be a skin. She's pretty much one already. I also love Ridley, I just don't think the playable Ridley is a good representation. When I was a kid and played Brawl, Ridley had such a fantastic presence as a boss. I get hyped just thinking about it! I don't get that same vibe with playable Ridley. Maybe balance changes would improve the situation, though. I think Sylux could be a very interesting fighter in the future, however. Seems to have a lot of potential as a new antagonist for Metroid.

Again, I'm going under the assumption here that the next Smash game will involve lots of cuts and polish our veteran fighters while focusing more on gameplay innovation. Sakurai, after all, has said that "Everyone is Here" will likely not happen again. If they were to cut Ridley and make him a boss with a major role in the story mode again, I would be completely fine with that.

They're mad that echoes weren't used as a quick way to """""balance""""" the roster, but instead add popular characters who are similar enough to someone already playable.

You're attributing anger to somewhere there isn't any. If people want to get angry about this, that's fine, but I'm not participating in that. Having opinions about a game we all love shouldn't frustrate anyone, but generate positive discussion instead.

 

[Guynamednelson]

which I don't think Ike has

A starter character in what was once the best selling Smash, whose lines are memes. How is he not iconic to Smash?

 

[Deathcarter]

I don't buy that FE characters fill out sword archetypes. I mean, they do but it didn't have to be Fire Emblem characters who did so. There is no shortage of sword wielding characters in videogames, Nintendo-owned or otherwise.

I can't see anybody else being the "Marth" of the sword characters since Meta Knight is way too unusual in design, Takamaru had the exact same issue as Marth did with lack of international recognition but with much smaller Japanese fan support, Link already had his zoner/sword hybrid niche, Shulk and Isaac have way too many cool powers, and nobody who's a fan of a third party swordie would want them to be as simple and basic as the Marths.

I suppose Ganondorf could have had Ike's niche of a heavy sword had he not debuted in Melee but I'm not confident in that since Twilight Princess released a year after Brawl's project plan was finalized and I doubt Sakurai would ever go for Wind Waker Dorf.

And I certainly don't agree that Fire Emblem has "the third largest amount of viable candidates." That's just silly IMO. Donkey Kong still has Cranky and Dixie, Zelda has plenty of one-offs (the kind of characters that FE almost solely consists of) and potentially even more character variants like Toon Ganondorf, Kirby has a pretty big and widely requested amount of characters... And that's just off the top of my head. I don't agree with that statement in the least. But I hear it fairly frequently from FE fans. Even so, I still I won't say that you're petty or entitled.

Depends of your definition of "viable". But the fact that FE regularly churns out brand new protags and a that lot of existing FE characters work as easy clones of Marth simply gives FE a major head up over most other series. I guess Zelda could churn out a dozen different Link clones if you really wanted to....

 

[Idon]

I find it funny that among the characters people cut first are the echoes. Like those characters are easy clones but the mere existence of them seem to annoy people.

Frankly there's currently no reason to cut characters like Daisy, Dark Pit, Lucina, Chrom, Dark Samus or Ken as long as you don't cut the main fighter.

This might be on the unpopular side of opinions, but I dislike echoes really since it cements them in their role as "copy-cat" characters with little to no differences between their original version asides from personality with little possibility of them changing in the future. Just look at how Dark Samus who has had her dozen amounts of unique attributes in her own game relegated to "Oh, she's Samus but does spooky versions of her attacks."

I dunno, I just prefer when fighting games have a roster that's full of unique characters over characters that are nearly identical. I think the only modern game that's done that so far is Tekken 7, and that's for a single joke character, not an entire subset of them.

 

[krokotopia101]

Rework Daisy so she could be her own fighter. Smash just degrades her to a Peach clone when she's far from a Peach clone. No one'll agree with me, but looking back, I feel echo fighters are better off their own character or cut. It's disgusting. Delete Pitoo and no one would care. Delete half the FE roster and no one would care. Granted the "too many sword character" trope will still go on so long as Link, Toon Link, Young Link, Meta Knight, Cloud, and the Heroes exist.

 

[DarthEnderX]

First of all we definitely wouldn't have Black Mage or fully decloned Ganondorf due to Square Enix and design philosophies, and second, most of these characters wouldn't be as unique as the Ice Climbers or Mr. Game & Watch. And besides, just because a character isn't from a currently popular franchise doesn't mean they shouldn't be on the roster. The Ice Climbers, Mr. Game & Watch, and Duck Hunt celebrate Nintendo's past while the Wii Fit Trainer was from a then popular franchise (just not with the hard core gaming crowd).

Cool. Don't care.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

You're being dishonest; echoes are not considered "half characters." They are full fledged characters of their own.

A half character would be someone like Alph.

They are almost literally just character skins. They take no where near the same amount of work as a normal fighter.

This might be on the unpopular side of opinions, but I dislike echoes really since it cements them in their role as "copy-cat" characters with little to no differences between their original version asides from personality with little possibility of them changing in the future. Just look at how Dark Samus who has had her dozen amounts of unique attributes in her own game relegated to "Oh, she's Samus but does spooky versions of her attacks."

I dunno, I just prefer when fighting games have a roster that's full of unique characters over characters that are nearly identical. I think the only modern game that's done that so far is Tekken 7, and that's for a single joke character, not an entire subset of them.

I do agree that echoes should bring meaningful differences with them. Especially characters that don't have access to attacks from the main fighter and also have some moveset potential of their own like Dark Samus and Daisy. In terms of giving characters (that make people happy) a spot on the roster that don't have the moveset potential or sheer widespread popularity going for them I think it's a great idea.

Cool. Don't care.

Thank you for reminding me that I have so many more productive things to do than talking to walls.

 

[Vrbtm]

They are almost literally just character skins. They take no where near the same amount of work as a normal fighter.

"Almost" isn't enough.

 

[Deleted member]

I think many people would be much happier with FE representation if a couple of fixes were made:
• Cut Corrin - this would probably have happened if Ultimate wasn't Ultimate, but yeah. People hate Corrin, that won't change.
"That's still too many Fire Emblem characters."
• Cut two of the three Awakening characters - I get that Awakening basically revived the series, it's a great game, but three is still overkill. As for who to leave, either Chrom (for being the only one who got in due to fan demand) or Robin (because of his unique moveset). Sorry Lucina, but you got the worst of both worlds.
"But GoodGrief, you're cutting one or two of the few unique movesets the franchise has got!"
• Declone some characters - Marth and Ike can obviously stay the same. I think Roy is fine, but if need be he can be decloned further. Chrom (if he stays) should be completely reworked into his own unique moveset. It shouldn't be that hard.
"That's great for the people that don't want Fire Emblem, but what about the fans?"/"Just four characters is too few!"/"This leaves us with only blue-haired swordsmen."
• Start adding characters due to fan demand - Lyn alone fixes most of the complaints people have with Fire Emblem. Other characters like Hector and Black Knight come to mind. Just please, stop treating Smash like an advertisement and adding the latest characters only.

Basically, the ideal FE roster according to me: Marth, Roy, Ike, Chrom (fully decloned), Lyn. After this, I think there would be enough goodwill that people would start being okay with a Byleth joining in (provided they join a while after the game's release and are a liked character).

This solution only accenctuates the problem that I mentioned with people cutting down echoes and that some of the cuts you made were done just to appease people who think only on numbers. (Kinda like children who fight over who is 1cm taller).

Robin is one of the few magician archetypes and one of the protagonists of his game, so its kinda jarring to see him cut. And if we have Roy and Marth in the game there's little to no reason to not keep their echoes especially if they are popular characters.

Neither adding Lyn, Hector nor BK would solve the problem either. Lyn and Hector are just protagonists of 1/3 of their game each and if Awakening having too many characters was an issue I fail to see how this solves anything. As much as people meme about BK being Ike's echo, their builds and abikities differ greatly so you would have another swordsman that people love in the roster.

Realisticaly I can see why Corrin was added.
Just like Sakurai always adds popular characters within the fandom, they also add characters that are from their recent games, and surprise picks. Corrin had the advantage of timing, having a game released on the same year, not having to have a stage developed for them, and having a unique archetype (videogame characters who can morph parts of their body is rare) so I can see why they decided on them.

Ultimately, my issue with the cuts regarding FE is that they only show 2 things: the fanbase cares about numbers in a very childish way and that their way to solve problems is to cut characters.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Depends of your definition of "viable". But the fact that FE regularly churns out brand new protags and a that lot of existing FE characters work as easy clones of Marth simply gives FE a major head up over most other series. I guess Zelda could churn out a dozen different Link clones if you really wanted to....

To be fair, I don't know if being able to make lots of clone characters for a single franchise is a good thing in the long run. In fact, if memory serves, a lot of Lucina and Chrom fans would love if they were decloned.

I get what your point is, especially how this relates to a game's development cycle, but I mean... as a Zelda fan, I'd rather not get more Links, if you know what I mean.

If anything, I hope we get more fan demand FE characters instead of advertisement picks for the next Smash games. I know these things are pretty much a lost cause, as a Pokémon fan, but...

 

[krokotopia101]

Would anyone care if Dr. Mario was cut?

 

[ROBnWatch]

fine i'll add more there would be no ice climbers, no game and watch, no R.O.B and more sonic, metal gear, and more DK

Can’t tell if you’re hating on my characters or if you’re just continuing the joke...I don’t need to start anything though so I’ll just let it be.

 

[Vycoul]

I can't see anybody else being the "Marth" of the sword characters since Meta Knight is way too unusual in design, Takamaru had the exact same issue as Marth did with lack of international recognition but with much smaller Japanese fan support, Link already had his zoner/sword hybrid niche, Shulk and Isaac have way too many cool powers, and nobody who's a fan of a third party swordie would want them to be as simple and basic as the Marths.

I suppose Ganondorf could have had Ike's niche of a heavy sword had he not debuted in Melee but I'm not confident in that since Twilight Princess released a year after Brawl's project plan was finalized and I doubt Sakurai would ever go for Wind Waker Dorf.


Depends of your definition of "viable". But the fact that FE regularly churns out brand new protags and a that lot of existing FE characters work as easy clones of Marth simply gives FE a major head up over most other series. I guess Zelda could churn out a dozen different Link clones if you really wanted to....

For your first point, you claimed that Fire Emblem characters "fill an important gameplay niche." I don't think we need 3 Marth derivatives to accomplish that.
I have no problem with Marth himself. But the fact is that Roy, Chrom, and Lucina are pretty much superfluous when it comes to "filling an important gameplay niche."

And Ike (slow, heavy sword character) and Robin's (magic using sword character), playstyles could have been created with a multitude of different characters instead. I'm not even saying that they should have, just that it didn't have to be Ike and Robin who got those archetypes into the game.

As for the Zelda characters, I think one would have to be intentionally unimaginative to think that a bunch of Link clones is all that Zelda really has to offer.
Zelda has Classic Ganon, Skull Kid, Ghirahim, Impa, BotW Champions... Sure those characters aren't protagonists, but I'd hardly call them "unviable."

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Ultimately, my issue with the cuts regarding FE is that they only show 2 things: the fanbase cares about numbers in a very childish way and that their way to solve problems is to cut characters.

Well, the biggest reason is that most people see a competition for resources (which isn't entirely incorrect), while others have the "more is better" mentality more predominant in their reasoning, leading to banter such as:

They are almost literally just character skins.

"Almost" isn't enough.

I wouldn't say it's childish, but it makes for frustrating conversation when no-one will really listen to the other. It doesn't help that we're mostly just saying opinions though.

Would anyone care if Dr. Mario was cut?

I would but I would understand why he was cut.

As for the Zelda characters, I think one would have to be intentionally unimaginative to think that a bunch of Link clones is all that Zelda really has to offer.
Zelda has Classic Ganon, Skull Kid, Ghirahim, Impa, BotW Champions... Sure those characters aren't protagonists, but I'd hardly call them "unviable."

I think that last point he made was a response to the post about people being mad about how echo fighters were used and wasn't meant to imply Link was the only viable character left for representation.

 

[Kronch]

A starter character in what was once the best selling Smash, whose lines are memes. How is he not iconic to Smash?

Doesn't the same apply to Roy... mostly? Unlockable character in what was once the best selling Smash, who himself is a meme?

I don't dislike Ike, but I think if it came down to it, people would favor Roy over him.

 

[Vrbtm]

I wouldn't say it's childish, but it makes for frustrating conversation when no-one will really listen to the other. It doesn't help that we're mostly just saying opinions though.

My statement hasn't changed. "Almost" isn't enough. They are still their own characters. You can't say it's 5.5.

 

[Opossum]

People really still think Marth and Roy play the same, huh?

Sad, really. Marth and Roy have more differences than Villager and Isabelle do, but the anti-sword bias so many people have supercedes that, I guess.

 

[ProfPeanut]

Clones and echoes aren't a problem as long as they don't detract from us getting newcomers as well. Lucina's reveal would have been laughable without Robin, and Dark Samus would have been less tolerable had Ridley not shown up first. And besides, it certainly feeds into that "catering to the crowd" mentality that so many support groups love to tout around, seeing as that's the only argument that they have for themselves (How can you not be glad that the Daisy crowd has finally quieted down?)

At any rate, it's useless to speculate whether echoes are "good" for the metagame or not, because you can't predict that kind of thing at all. Who'd have thought Lucina alone would be top tier out of all the Marth echoes, Marth included?

 

[BZocky]

What if the Starling teaser is actually for a character from StarLink? Literally nobody is expecting a character from that franchise despite all the love Nintendo's been giving it. Heck, it could even be a character from Star Fox that's being featured in StarLink.

 

[Deathlightning21]

Doesn't the same apply to Roy... mostly? Unlockable character in what was once the best selling Smash, who himself is a meme?

I don't dislike Ike, but I think if it came down to it, people would favor Roy over him.

Roy's meme only sprouted from him being left out from Smash 4's roster and Roy the Koopaling existing. While Ike was a meme right out of the gate.

But, Ike is still many FE fans favorite Lord over Roy. In fact, when FEH hosted a popularity contest, Ike received a combined total of 51,555 of votes (They split him between his younger (33,871 votes) and his older (17,684 votes) versions for some reason) over Roy's 28,982 votes.

To remove such a fan favorite over a well-recognized and still liked character won't jive with a lot of fans.

 

[Megadoomer]

What if the Starling teaser is actually for a character from StarLink? Literally nobody is expecting a character from that franchise despite all the love Nintendo's been giving it. Heck, it could even be a character from StarFox that's being featured in StarLink.

If we got a Ubisoft character that was someone from StarLink, over characters like Rayman, the Prince of Persia, Ezio, etc., then I feel like people would be pretty annoyed.

Besides, we don't know if it's a teaser for Smash; it's vague enough that it could be twisted to apply to anything, and even if it is Smash related, it could be used to justify dozens of characters. Case in point:

A European starling... hmm...

Both European and Starling contain eight letters, and August is the eighth month. The two words start with E and S, and the only capital letter in the word is E, the fifth letter of the alphabet. This is clearly a hint pointing towards the zodiac symbol Aries, which is five letters long and contains both E and S. Aries is a homophone for Ares, the Greek God of War, whose counterpart in Roman mythology is Mars. Doom takes place on Mars, so OBVIOUSLY, this indicates that Doomguy will be playable in Smash Bros., and he'll be announced in August at EVO!

...Or it's an extremely vague hint, and we shouldn't spend too much time trying to overanalyze it or else we'll drive ourselves mad.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Just to chime in quickly here; please don't make potshots at other fanbases. Likewise, we don't dismiss people's points. If you don't want to listen to them, say so respectively and move on. We expect an atmosphere of respect of what others say.

 

[Kronch]

Roy's meme only sprouted from him being left out from Smash 4's roster and Roy the Koopaling existing. While Ike was a meme right out of the gate.

But, Ike is still many FE fans favorite Lord over Roy. In fact, when FEH hosted a popularity contest, Ike received a combined total of 51,555 of votes (They split him between his younger (33,871 votes) and his older (17,684 votes) versions for some reason) over Roy's 28,982 votes.

To remove such a fan favorite over a well-recognized and still liked character won't jive with a lot of fans.

We can agree to disagree on this.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

My statement hasn't changed. "Almost" isn't enough. They are still their own characters. You can't say it's 5.5.

Ok first of all I wasn't saying you were wrong in the statement you quoted, I was just using our banter to make the point that we're not very good at arguing things.

People really still think Marth and Roy play the same, huh?

Sad, really. Marth and Roy have more differences than Villager and Isabelle do, but the anti-sword bias so many people have supercedes that, I guess.

Well that and the characters do have a similar feel to them even if it's just personality wise. Especially when you do what the vast majority of players (including myself) do and just run up and hit stuff.

What if the Starling teaser is actually for a character from StarLink? Literally nobody is expecting a character from that franchise despite all the love Nintendo's been giving it. Heck, it could even be a character from Star Fox that's being featured in StarLink.

Did that game even do very well? I feel like it would be a bad pick.

 

[Door Key Pig]

So someone of several who said Banjo was going to be in is conveniently leaving a "riddle leak" instead of just straight up telling us what the character is, so they can get more attention as we try to solve it? cool.

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

I'm so very glad that we didn't have to worry about cut characters in Ultimate. At the very least it made speculation a whole lot less toxic.


That and I generally like pretty much everyone on the roster.

 

[Vycoul]

People really still think Marth and Roy play the same, huh?
Sad, really. Marth and Roy have more differences than Villager and Isabelle do, but the anti-sword bias so many people have supercedes that, I guess.

In case this was directed at me, (apologies if it wasn't, but that's the problem with being so vague) I meant that Marth doesn't need Roy to "fill an important gameplay niche." Yes, Marth and Roy play differently when used by pros, but when casuals look at the two characters, they likely see nearly identical movesets.

And if it takes pros to tell the masses that two character's playstyles are actually kinda different, then I have a hard time agreeing that Roy and by extension, Chrom "fill an important gameplay niche." (forgive me for copy-pasting that quote so many times, I'll stop now)

 

[Dust319]

Firstly, popularity and sales are irrelevant to Fire Emblem’s inclusion to Smash, and irrelevant to the series cast as a whole. (Example: Wolf was added at point when Starfox hadn’t been terribly relevant or sold incredibly well.). Instead, for kids in Japan who grew up with the Famicom, Fire Emblem is as nostalgic as any of the original Smash 8.
That’s how we got Marth.
We got Roy in Melee because he was the most recent protagonist at the time.
We got Ike in Brawl for the same reason.
We got Robin because Sakurai vetoed Chrom for being too much like Marth.
We got Lucina as a fluke, because she was intended as an alt for Marth at first.

Then we got Roy back, and then we got Corrin.
Then Chrom was added in ultimate because why not?
I’m not sure what drove the last three but it’s clear the series was keeping the most recent protagonist on the assumption that people who never played before will want to pick up with a character they recognize.

Fire Emblem ended up where it is primarily because it’s rotating main cast. The counter example, Legend of Zelda, also has a rotating cast but it’s a rotating supporting cast. There is always a Link, Zelda, and most of the time a Ganon or Ganondorf. Therefore, it’s harder to argue for a different rep from it.

As far as whether we get a 3 Houses character, I think it’s still somewhat likely. If it ends up being any of the house leaders though, we won’t have the sword user complaint at least.

Personally, I think we’ll get another Pokémon instead.

 

[TheCJBrine]

So someone of several who said Banjo was going to be in is conveniently leaving a "riddle leak" instead of just straight up telling us what the character is, so they can get more attention as we try to solve it? cool.

They also left “riddles” for Banjo and Link’s Awakening. They’re Sabi’s Nintendo source.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I'm so very glad that we didn't have to worry about cut characters in Ultimate. At the very least it made speculation a whole lot less toxic.


That and I generally like pretty much everyone on the roster.

Yeah, it's too bad "Everyone is here" can't really happen again without all of the other content regressing, obliterating the newcomer count, or just in general due to licensing.

 

[Vrbtm]

I was just using our banter to make the point that we're not very good at arguing things.

Speak for yourself.

Then Chrom was added in ultimate because why not?

You know very well why not.

 

[Opossum]

In case this was directed at me, (apologies if it wasn't, but that's the problem with being so vague) I meant that Marth doesn't need Roy to "fill an important gameplay niche." Yes, Marth and Roy play differently when used by pros, but when casuals look at the two characters, they likely see nearly identical movesets.

And if it takes pros to tell the masses that two character's playstyles are actually kinda different, then I have a hard time agreeing that Roy and by extension, Chrom "fill an important gameplay niche." (forgive me for copy-pasting that quote so many times, I'll stop now)

Don't worry, it was more of a general thing as opposed to singling anyone out in particular.

That's the thing though...they don't even have identical movesets. Roy and Marth pretty much only share their throws, side special, down special, down tilt, down smash, and the non-down aerials. Neutral special, up special, jab, forward tilt, up tilt, forward smash, up smash, down aerial, and Final Smash are all completely different moves, while dash attack is in a gray area where it is somewhat similar but its properties are very different (due to the differences that come with an inward and outward slash). Plus their gimmicks necessitate different playstyles, stuff that even the game tells you.

And that's not even getting into the stat stuff, which I'm assuming is what you meant by stuff pros would notice. I just feel like a lot of their differences get weirdly ignored, as if people only remember Roy from Melee.

Then Chrom was added in ultimate because why not?
I’m not sure what drove the last three but

For the record, he got in because he was a popular ballot pick. Sakurai talked about it in one of his columns. Actually, he's the only one besides Marth to have popularity as the reason behind their inclusion (with Marth doing really well on the Melee poll and Chrom on the Smash Ballot).

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Alsowas added to Base roster. DLC is another story though.

 

[tenworldsguy]

Would anyone care if Dr. Mario was cut?

I know this really isn't a hot take nor is a popular one but
I do feel many clones from Melee aren't really that valuable as characters, even less so than Echoes.
Echoes are usually added to appease an audience who demands a new, but very similar to an already existing, character, and they don't even take up a roster slot. Dark Pit and Lucina felt much more tolerated once they recieved their shiny new Echo badge.
But Melee clones (and to that extent the few Brawl clones)?
Melee and Brawl clones felt like extra padding (Melee would have had an extremely minimalist roster comparing to what it turned out being, what with a mere 8 newcomers), with Brawl's clones in Wolf/Toon Link being extremely low priority and only really being worked on with the delays. I do feel that these characters, for the most part, generic filler than only exist to make the roster look more impressive. There are a few who have been decloned or made unique (Falco and his personality, Roy and his underdog status, Wolf and Ganondorf being an actual villian, etc) but several others (Doctor Mario, Yink/Tink, Pichu) still feel like generic padding who don't even have the privilege of being considered echoes. I get that they play differently, but with the mentioned prior, they felt like completely different characters in spite of their similarities. The latter four barely register as seperate characters in my head. I understand that my complainin really won't impact much, but would it hurt them to add some neat stuff to the later four (a signature special move, a distinctive power shift, etc)? Currently they just feel like antiques who nobody would miss much if they went away

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Speak for yourself.

Substitute the Smash roster with a salad and Fire Emblem characters with croutons and absolutely nothing would change. You're still saying there are too many croutons in this salad and I'm still saying there aren't. I say that some of the croutons are actually pieces of toast, and are therefore more economical, and you say that they still shouldn't be there in the first place. Anything else spoken is just us restating our thesis, giving it very little point. We're not conversing with each other, we're talking at each other and that's a sign that we should just drop the subject (at least amongst each other).

 

[GoodGrief741]

You're being dishonest; echoes are not considered "half characters." They are full fledged characters of their own.

Most people consider them half characters. You're going to respond that you don't, and I'll probably respond that I don't care.

This solution only accenctuates the problem that I mentioned with people cutting down echoes and that some of the cuts you made were done just to appease people who think only on numbers. (Kinda like children who fight over who is 1cm taller).

Robin is one of the few magician archetypes and one of the protagonists of his game, so its kinda jarring to see him cut. And if we have Roy and Marth in the game there's little to no reason to not keep their echoes especially if they are popular characters.

Neither adding Lyn, Hector nor BK would solve the problem either. Lyn and Hector are just protagonists of 1/3 of their game each and if Awakening having too many characters was an issue I fail to see how this solves anything. As much as people meme about BK being Ike's echo, their builds and abikities differ greatly so you would have another swordsman that people love in the roster.

Realisticaly I can see why Corrin was added.
Just like Sakurai always adds popular characters within the fandom, they also add characters that are from their recent games, and surprise picks. Corrin had the advantage of timing, having a game released on the same year, not having to have a stage developed for them, and having a unique archetype (videogame characters who can morph parts of their body is rare) so I can see why they decided on them.

Ultimately, my issue with the cuts regarding FE is that they only show 2 things: the fanbase cares about numbers in a very childish way and that their way to solve problems is to cut characters.

The number of FE characters is something that, to many people, negatively affects the quality of Smash. Sakurai apparently agrees. I think it's reductive to say that cutting characters isn't a solution to that problem, or that the problem is childish. It can be argued (I think FE is overrepped but I'd be fine with only Corrin cut) but at the end of the day a very large contingent of fans want those cuts and Smash has to try and satisfy as many people as much as it can.

 

[N3ON]

I find it funny that among the characters people cut first are the echoes. Like those characters are easy clones but the mere existence of them seem to annoy people.

Frankly there's currently no reason to cut characters like Daisy, Dark Pit, Lucina, Chrom, Dark Samus or Ken as long as you don't cut the main fighter.

Tell that to Sakurai. Derivative fighters always make up a good chunk of the cuts (when there are cuts). I expect that trend to continue when the series next receives omissions.

 

[osby]

Tell that to Sakurai. Derivative fighters always make up a good chunk of the cuts (when there are cuts). I expect that trend to continue when the series next receives omissions.

That only really applies to Brawl. At the end of Smash 4, the only missing clones were , while and (who needs more dev time than a simp clone) was still cut.

 

[Vrbtm]

Most people consider them half characters.

This isn't subjective. It is a FACT that they are separate characters.

 

[GoodGrief741]

This isn't subjective. It is a FACT that they are separate characters.

Not even. You can make them share selection spots with their originals, and they don't get their own fighter number.