Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[tenworldsguy]

Click the smily option in the post maker and you'll see icons for Smash.

The primary source of Erdrick/Hero was a datamine for a character that was named "Brave" which is a direct translation of "Yuusha," the Japanese title for the Hero class in Dragon Quest. There was also Tansut, a Square insider who had previously leaked Cloud, saying he was told a Dragon Quest character would be in Smash, and Erdrick was likely a part of it, but it was unclear if he was the primary face of the character or not. And Vergeben had known about a "Square rep" since... August? A while ago.

: D
Thanks!

Anybody got dark horse candidate characters that you feel have a good chance making the Fighter Pass that the community at large doesn’t? I’m interested to hear some unique perspectives since we are kind of a lull in speculation until Hero arrives.

There is that one dude here who really supports Pete from Harvest Moon (SirCamp I believe?) I don't think he's extremely likely but I lowkey support him more than most popular choices.

There is always the possibility that Geno is playable but not part of the fighter pass.

Though if there's no Mii costume in the next patch and Glitch theory holds true, keep an eye on Mii Gunner.

What is Glitch Theory?

 

[Guybrush20X6]

What is Glitch Theory?

It's the theory that when a character gets a new glitch in patches, it's a result fo them being used as a base for DLC characters. Mii Swordfighter and Duck Hunt got game crashing glitches and the next two characters are a sword fighter and a mammal/bird duo.

It may just be co-incidence but we don't have too much to go on ATM.

 

[Deleted member]

It's the theory that when a character gets a new glitch in patches, it's a result fo them being used as a base for DLC characters. Mii Swordfighter and Duck Hunt got game crashing glitches and the next two characters are a sword fighter and a mammal/bird duo.

It may just be co-incidence but we don't have too much to go on ATM.

The glitch in question is the SD Card corruption glitch that occurred with Fake SD Cards. People suspect the Duck Hunt Dog was used as the basis for BK, but I’m not seeing any similarities in things like their animations and all that to believe that one. I have to leave for church, so I can’t finish my post right now, but when I get back, I’m going to post some i’ve Learned about the DQ Hero that makes me want to add on to the character basis Theory.

 

[Ornl]

As Bowser Jr. used for building Piranha Plant,
I think Duck Hunt would be ideal for building Amaterasu.

 

[Curious Villager]

If the Hero used the Mii Sword Fighter for the base, then I wonder if that may have to do with the fact that the Mii Fighters are programmed to have access to multiple special moves thanks to their custom moveset.

At least, if I understood how the Hero is designed correctly. Except with him you can essentially have access to all special moves on the fly with the dropdown menu.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

I'm just surprised that Hero wasn't based on Link, what with them having swords and shields.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Any idea who they used as Joker's base?

 

[Diddy Kong]

As Bowser Jr. used for building Piranha Plant,
I think Duck Hunt would be ideal for building Amaterasu.

View attachment 231244

I’d really like Ameterasu honestly! Or Monster Hunter. I kinda think I prefer them over 90% of the choices there are left to choose from.

Now that Banjo-Kazooie is in, which I never dared to expect, I’m down for whatever though. I still would like a first party character above anything else tho, and yes a Fire Emblem character would be totally FINE with me, but I don’t expect it.

 

[osby]

Any idea who they used as Joker's base?

Do we even have a confirmation that he has a base character?

Generally, you can connect characters from certain animations (like how Little Mac shares a few of Captain Falcon's animations).

 

[Playstation Guy 1000]

I know this kinda off-topic but do you guys think there's gonna be another rpg character in the fighters pass.

 

[Megadoomer]

I know this kinda off-topic but do you guys think there's gonna be another rpg character in the fighters pass.

There could be - if we get a Namco-Bandai character (it seems odd that they worked on the game, and yet they barely got any new content in this one), both Lloyd and KOS-MOS appear to be in the running. For third party companies/games that aren't already featured, Sans from Undertale (or an Undertale character in general; Sans just seems to be the most recognizable one) could stand a good chance.

If we get Nintendo characters (depending on whether or not having a spirit is seen as a disqualifying factor), I feel like Porky from Earthbound or Elma from Xenoblade Chronicles X stand decent chances. (we know that Rex was too late to get in, hence why he got a Mii costume instead, though that statement is open to interpretation somewhat)

Also, Geno from Super Mario RPG could get in based on sheer popularity, though the fact that he's owned by Square-Enix seems to complicate the issue. (seeing as Square-Enix already has a character in the game as DLC)

 

[TheCJBrine]

I know this kinda off-topic but do you guys think there's gonna be another rpg character in the fighters pass.

We’re gonna get two of Sans/Papyrus, Porky, Ninten and Geno and make this an RPG pass.

Banjo counts because his game was originally gonna be an RPG. Bear-Birdie are the best anime swordfighters.

 

[OrpheusTelos]

Anybody got dark horse candidate characters that you feel have a good chance making the Fighter Pass that the community at large doesn’t? I’m interested to hear some unique perspectives since we are kind of a lull in speculation until Hero arrives.

I may be a bit biased, but I actually think Frisk has a pretty decent chance of making it in. I understand why people don't consider Undertale a serious contender in Smash speculation because a good chunk of the discussion surrounding it is ironic ****posting, but I think Frisk probably has the best chances of any indie besides Quote. The Shovel Knight and Shantae spirits show that they're more than willing to represent indies and Undertale has a huge following in North America and Japan, so I think the protagonist has a better shot than most people give them credit for. And I know Undertale has since been ported to consoles, but the game originated on PC and did a lot of stuff that couldn't be fully recreated on consoles, so Frisk would work well as a sort of PC representative to compliment Joker and Banjo representing Playstation and Xbox respectively (not that I'm trying to push another baseless theory or think that Smash desperately needs to represent PC gaming, just a small observation I've made)

A month back I would've also said Resident Evil was overlooked in terms of Smash speculation, but that's seemed to have changed after all the major leaks were debunked and the Mii costume theory came about. I'm glad more people are considering Leon/Jill now because Resi is one of the last huge genre-defining franchises not represented in Smash and it'd be kind of weird if it were left out imo

 

[Izanagi97]

Do we even have a confirmation that he has a base character?

Generally, you can connect characters from certain animations (like how Little Mac shares a few of Captain Falcon's animations).

Closest I've seen was Robin

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Let's not forget that Smash takes more from SNK games that it does from Capcom: dash, rolls, taunts, super moves, ring outs all originated from SNK games

This is why I think SNK is really deserving for a spot in the roster.

Especially if said female fighting game character is true.

 

[Playstation Guy 1000]

There could be - if we get a Namco-Bandai character (it seems odd that they worked on the game, and yet they barely got any new contentn in this one), both Lloyd and KOS-MOS appear to be in the running. For third party companies/games that aren't already featured, Sans from Undertale (or an Undertale character in general; Sans just seems to be the most recognizable one) could stand a good chance.

If we get Nintendo characters (depending on whether or not having a spirit is seen as a disqualifying factor), I feel like Porky from Earthbound or Elma from Xenoblade Chronicles X stand decent chances. (we know that Rex was too late to get in, hence why he got a Mii costume instead, though that statement is open to interpretation somewhat)

Also, Geno from Super Mario RPG could get in based on sheer popularity, though the fact that he's owned by Square-Enix seems to complicate the issue. (seeing as Square-Enix already has a character in the game as DLC)

the ones you mention are the most likely rpg characters although there was other rpg characters that has a smaller but decent chance of getting in(Sora, Dovahkiin, Commander Shepard, Jibanyan, etc.).

I may be a bit biased, but I actually think Frisk has a pretty decent chance of making it in. I understand why people don't consider Undertale a serious contender in Smash speculation because a good chunk of the discussion surrounding it is ironic ****posting, but I think Frisk probably has the best chances of any indie besides Quote. The Shovel Knight and Shantae spirits show that they're more than willing to represent indies and Undertale has a huge following in North America and Japan, so I think the protagonist has a better shot than most people give them credit for. And I know Undertale has since been ported to consoles, but the game originated on PC and did a lot of stuff that couldn't be fully recreated on consoles, so Frisk would work well as a sort of PC representative to compliment Joker and Banjo representing Playstation and Xbox respectively (not that I'm trying to push another baseless theory or think that Smash desperately needs to represent PC gaming, just a small observation I've made)

A month back I would've also said Resident Evil was overlooked in terms of Smash speculation, but that's seemed to have changed after all the major leaks were debunked and the Mii costume theory came about. I'm glad more people are considering Leon/Jill now because Resi is one of the last huge genre-defining franchises not represented in Smash and it'd be kind of weird if it were left out imo

I can see Frisk and Jill/Leon being the last 2 characters in the fighters pass.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Say, which character if any was used as Joker’s base as per the Glitch Theory, assuming was ‘s base, was ‘s and was ?

 

[TheCJBrine]

Say, which character if any was used as Joker’s base as per the Glitch Theory, assuming was ‘s base, was ‘s and was ?

The trolls that like to nitpick animations being remotely similar to each other while acting like jerks would tell you Ness, Ivysaur, Pit, Bayonetta, and whatever anime swordfighter character with a counter.

I, however, would not ignore the clear differences in animation and the moves themselves, and would inform that a separate character’s files weren’t found with Joker’s (at least from what I remember, correct me if I’m wrong). I did think Mii Swordfighter could’ve been for him but idk.

 

[andree123]

Kept being bothered by people thinking that is the base for because they have so many special moves and I disagree with that.
The lacks any animations in the trailer and most likely used as a base because they both use shields.

So who agrees with me!

 

[Deleted member]

There were people in the Lloyd thread saying Link was the basis for Hero, now people are saying the Mii Sword Fighter is? What changed (if anything)? Anyway, to add to the character basis theory, if SmashWiki is to be believed, DQ Hero has similarities to not just link, but also Marth, Ken, Ike and Ganondorf, which leads me to wonder, could multiple characters be the basis for a single character?

https://www.ssbwiki.com/Hero_(SSBU)

 

[Playstation Guy 1000]

There were people in the Lloyd thread saying Link was the basis for Hero, now people are saying the Mii Sword Fighter is? What changed (if anything)? Anyway, to add to the character basis theory, if SmashWiki is to be believed, DQ Hero has similarities to not just link, but also Marth, Ken and Ganondorf, which leads me to wonder, could multiple characters be the basis for a single character?

https://www.ssbwiki.com/Hero_(SSBU)

you could be right.

 

[osby]

There were people in the Lloyd thread saying Link was the basis for Hero, now people are saying the Mii Sword Fighter is? What changed (if anything)? Anyway, to add to the character basis theory, if SmashWiki is to be believed, DQ Hero has similarities to not just link, but also Marth, Ken and Ganondorf, which leads me to wonder, could multiple characters be the basis for a single character?

https://www.ssbwiki.com/Hero_(SSBU)

Probably no. I don't think you can rip parts off from different characters and stick them into one fighter.

It's more likely that they just borrowed animations from multiple fighters after they use Link or Marth as a base.

 

[Curious Villager]

Kept being bothered by people thinking that is the base for because they have so many special moves and I disagree with that.
The lacks any animations in the trailer and most likely used as a base because they both use shields.

So who agrees with me!

I don't think its so much about recycling animations than what their overall structures are, or what specific code they need.

They used Zero Suit Samus as a base for Bayonetta last game and she hardly shares any animations with her if at all (at least from what I recall) Likewise with Ike and Cloud (Closest thing is the Final Smash maybe I guess).

Unless its some minor general poses like the buried animation and whatnot.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

There were people in the Lloyd thread saying Link was the basis for Hero, now people are saying the Mii Sword Fighter is? What changed (if anything)? Anyway, to add to the character basis theory, if SmashWiki is to be believed, DQ Hero has similarities to not just link, but also Marth, Ken, Ike and Ganondorf, which leads me to wonder, could multiple characters be the basis for a single character?

https://www.ssbwiki.com/Hero_(SSBU)

If I remember right, Wolf had some animations from more than just Fox, so it's quite possible multiple characters were used to create Hero.

 

[Predictabo]

This is why I think SNK is really deserving for a spot in the roster.

Especially if said female fighting game character is true.

Adding to that, forgot to mention that the first use of double jump and stage hazards on the fighting game context also had a SNK help.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Ok here's something I rarely see ppl mention

you know how there were cut Spirits for Jet Force Gemini and Blast Corps, two Rare owned series? Think they could appear with Banjo and Kazooie when they drop? As Rare Spirits/maybe even Microsoft Spirits in general like Blinx and (oof) Master Chief and Ori if they're also included...

I know there were also cut Devil's Third Spirits but that belongs to Nexon now, not Microsoft, so those Spirits are good as screwed

 

[Playstation Guy 1000]

Ok here's something I rarely see ppl mention

you know how there were cut Spirits for Jet Force Gemini and Blast Corps, two Rare owned series? Think they could appear with Banjo and Kazooie when they drop? As Rare Spirits/maybe even Microsoft Spirits in general like Blinx and (oof) Master Chief and Ori if they're also included...

I know there were also cut Devil's Third Spirits but that belongs to Nexon now, not Microsoft, so those Spirits are good as screwed

I guess there be a few Microsoft sprits along with the rareware ones(both Nintendo and Microsoft ones),
And also I be surprise if Nintendo managed to get back devil's third sprits in a sprit event.

 

[StormC]

Ok here's something I rarely see ppl mention

you know how there were cut Spirits for Jet Force Gemini and Blast Corps, two Rare owned series? Think they could appear with Banjo and Kazooie when they drop? As Rare Spirits/maybe even Microsoft Spirits in general like Blinx and (oof) Master Chief and Ori if they're also included...

I know there were also cut Devil's Third Spirits but that belongs to Nexon now, not Microsoft, so those Spirits are good as screwed

It's possible, although I believe there are old copyright listings where Nintendo Of Japan used to own Jet Force Gemini and Blast Corps and it's possible some Smash employees thought they had the rights to them before dropping them.

 

[OrpheusTelos]

Ok here's something I rarely see ppl mention

you know how there were cut Spirits for Jet Force Gemini and Blast Corps, two Rare owned series? Think they could appear with Banjo and Kazooie when they drop? As Rare Spirits/maybe even Microsoft Spirits in general like Blinx and (oof) Master Chief and Ori if they're also included...

I know there were also cut Devil's Third Spirits but that belongs to Nexon now, not Microsoft, so those Spirits are good as screwed

Ngl I actually forgot about that. I think other Rare spirits are very likely when Banjo drops, but I think general Microsoft stuff like Halo or Minecraft will be saved for Mii costumes

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

It's possible, although I believe there are old copyright listings where Nintendo Of Japan used to own Jet Force Gemini and Blast Corps and it's possible some Smash employees thought they had the rights to them before dropping them.

That's correct. It's why I never considered the Rareware Spirits to be strong evidence in favor of Banjo. Especially since it was confirmed Sakurai cut some Spirits. It's not really hard to believe he cut these since Nintendo didn't fully own them and that was all the entire situation resolved. Same with Devil's Third.

 

[Playstation Guy 1000]

how many sprits do you expect to see when hero is released considering that dragon quest has a lot of characters compare to the other 3rd party franchises in smash bros.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

Considering Squeenix, not a lot to be honest.

 

[Deleted member]

I hope that we get Dhoulmagus and Dragonlord Spirit Battles.

 

[AntagonisticGalaxyCetacea]

If I remember right, Wolf had some animations from more than just Fox, so it's quite possible multiple characters were used to create Hero.

But that's....not how it works at all. Hero's animations don't look anything like other characters. Sure the MOTIONS are similar but that doesn't mean they ripped from other characters.

 

[Idon]

But that's....not how it works at all. Hero's animations don't look anything like other characters. Sure the MOTIONS are similar but that doesn't mean they ripped from other characters.

They could've hand animated every single one of his motions, but there's no denying that some share distinct visual similarities like dash attack and up smash. In practice it'll probably be like Ike/Cloud's Smashes and Ganondorfs where they look the same but work and are used differently.

 

[Playstation Guy 1000]

Considering Squeenix, not a lot to be honest.

yeah I think so too sadly

 

[volbound1700]

My perfect (and reasonable) last two characters would be Rayman and Crash Bandicoot.

I really want Tails but I don't see that happening and I am ok with the Mii Costume (although I wish they would make it the real tails face instead of the costume variant).

Other characters that I would be excited for would be DoomGuy, MasterChief, Ryu Hasabusa (Sp), and Sora.

Characters that I wouldn't be excited for\disappointed about:

1. Waluigi
2. Steve (Minecraft)
3. Any new Fire Emblem or Pokemon Character (I may make an exception for a very unique Fire Emblem character like Micaiah).

 

[tenworldsguy]

My perfect (and reasonable) last two characters would be Rayman and Crash Bandicoot.

I really want Tails but I don't see that happening and I am ok with the Mii Costume (although I wish they would make it the real tails face instead of the costume variant).

Other characters that I would be excited for would be DoomGuy, MasterChief, Ryu Hasabusa (Sp), and Sora.

Characters that I wouldn't be excited for\disappointed about:

1. Waluigi
2. Steve (Minecraft)
3. Any new Fire Emblem or Pokemon Character (I may make an exception for a very unique Fire Emblem character like Micaiah).

Rayman's all but deconfirmed at this point. Shame, he's like one of the few (reasonable) characters that I wanted in. Waluigi and Steve are deconfirmed to varying degrees (with one being an outright "no" and the other simply being connecting the dots), but it's anyone's guess if we are getting a new Pokemon/FE rep (I don't want either, as well).

Crash seems to be a very popular choice here but I don't think he's as much a lock as many people insist. He still seems very likely tho, keep that in mind.

 

[Guynamednelson]

but it's anyone's guess if we are getting a new Pokemon/FE rep

rex too new yadda yadda yadda

Also, I know that Mewtwo and Ike aren't the only characters from those series with some semblance of popularity. Sorry.

 

[Opossum]

rex too new yadda yadda yadda

Also, I know that Mewtwo and Ike aren't the only characters from those series with some semblance of popularity. Sorry.

Rex being too new for the base game doesn't have an effect for someone being too new for DLC, especially since unlike Rex for the base game, any character they'd have potentially picked for something like Three Houses would have had a finalized design when the negotation time came.

Rex more than likely just wasn't considered a good DLC option, for one reason or another.